81 - The Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase 4 in Review

talk about The Last of Us. We are going to talk about The Last of Us what we were but we're going to talk mostly about face for the MCU because at a quantum mania is coming out next game for a movie, great name. You couldn't do that, like you know, when you have to go to like the box office to get the tickets back in the day. You can't do that with a movie like that, then but you can do it now. Because everybody finds their tickets online.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So we're going to, you know, kind of recap as best we can. Everything that we got in Phase four. I mean, I mean, enough has been said about it, that it's the biggest phase Marvel's done so far in terms not in terms of time period, but in time, in terms of projects and everything. It's definitely a wide ranging kind of thing that we got, we got a lot of different stuff than stuff that's, you know, really unique from one another. We got obviously, this was the first

phase that included TV shows. So that was that that was exciting. That was kind of a new frontier upon itself. Yeah, I mean, changed. It's kind of the landscape of how we consume these bigger fandoms. I mean, the biggest fandom on the planet right now, it kind of changes

the game, which is cool. And I mean, we're going to talk about the other side to the, to the, to the the antithesis to Marvel, DC and how, you know, James Gunn just released their new slate, that's going to start, I believe, what next year they're going to start. And it's cool, because what's, it's what's the difference between the two of them wasn't one of these, you know, universes are so far in the future, like, we're, what, 13 years into, or 12 years into

this? No, no more, we're, we're almost 15 years into this phase. And we're witnessing the birth of another, you know, the other sides of this coin, we're gonna we're witnessing the birth of, you know, new characters, new frontiers for them, which is kind of cool. So I can't wait to talk about both. But I really, I got some thoughts about phase four, good thoughts, you know, opportunities for them, you know, a whole bunch of big

stuff. But I think this phase gets a bad rap and a little bit, a little bit of ways. I think so too. I think people were, I mean, this was really the first phase that was kind of really described as such, like, it was kind of a big presentation, like, this is the thing that we're doing, and this is the direction that it's all going in. So I think, you know, and I mean, social media has taken off precipitously in the last, you know, five or so years. So that's also like everybody's a critic now,

including us. But before we start talking about Marvel, we do have some news. But before we get to the news, we did kind of

want to do a mini version of what we've been doing the last couple of weeks, talking about the last of us talking about episode four. So I guess just we can just open it up to some quick thoughts. Obviously, we're not going to recap the whole episode, because it's not a we're not doing a whole episode on it. But I guess we could just do some quick thoughts. It was, it was a short episode, it was it was tight, it was action packed, it reminded me a lot of

Episode Two. So I kind of feel like I kind of get the the pacing of what this show kind of is like it's like you get like a story one and then you get like an action kind of one. And then you get a story one, and then another action kind of one, double barrel four and five with that action orientation. Because I mean, we kind of know

what's coming. So full spoiler warning for episode four of The Last of Us, so if you didn't see it yet, you know, Rob will timestamp this and then you can come back and or, you know, work around this. But big takeaways from that episode. I mean, again, to your point, I really like like the flow I love the moving nature of it to in the adventure kind of starts I think that's what I took from that, you know, the tribal nature of it, you know, is needed for epics, such as a story like

this. But what this really tackles is it goes farther into the relationship between Joe and Elliott. So it's much needed because like I said, episode two gave Joel the what in episode three gave them the why. So now he has to those two things. So now he can start on his hero's journey starting to reconcile with that a bit. I mean, we saw I mean, this is the most bonding they've done since this, this journey started and you kind of start seeing those walls coming down

for him. I mean, the the big moment at the end of the episode is not a not a big moment. It's just a very subtle one of him laughing at one of our jokes. Like that's probably the first time he's laughed in 20 years, you know what I mean? A genuine

laugh and 20 years. Yeah, and you know, that's a really small but a really important moment and then you know, I quite like the the humanization of the hunter See, you know, we're talking about the game a little bit like this, the set piece is relatively the same locations changed. But other than that it's not much different. It's just these hunters are more than just enemy obstacles now that are to get past their people with goals and missions. And they have their own kind of storyline going

on, which is interesting. The big thing for me too, about that is see that line that people got so mad at Craig NASM, for talking about death being trivial, like, you know, in a video game, I'm just killing the people that are in my way, but like, Brian, in this episode was, I mean, in the game, that guy also pleads for his life, but like here, like He's genuinely pleading for our life.

And I mean, it goes back to that thing I talked about where like, you know, the people that didn't play the game, like, and then the people that did play the game, like, we have nothing but like a visceral reaction to seeing live action stuff versus like, you know, video games suffer animated stuff. So like, seeing him plead for his life, like you feel it a little bit more. And then it you know, it helps it helps Joel to like, it

helps us development. It does. I mean, you know, narratively based on like, actually, because that's not a great thing to do somebody else. But, you know, it helps that development in the way that he, what does he tell Ellie to do, he tells her to leave, like, I don't want you to see this. So he's starting to be more conscious of her now. So you can start to see, you know, the mold taking place for what their relationship is gonna

evolve into. Yeah. And then apologizing to her about, you know, not about putting her in that situation where she had to make the decision to shoot that guy. Joel just was like, I'm sorry, like, I put you in that position. But since I got you here, I'm going to teach you some a thing or two. And I quite like that. It's a bit of a change from the game. When the first time Ellie shoots and kills somebody, Joe's very upset with her. Yeah. And he's very

defensive. And like, I'm lucky, I didn't get my head got blown off by a kid. And I think the answer to that might just be the structure of how the show is only nine episodes. So because in the game, it takes a little bit for them to reconcile that

situation. But we don't really have time to, you know, basically, what they did with the scene in the show is they mixed that moment in the game where she shoots and kills somebody with the rifle sequence, where he teaches her shoot the rifle, and they kind of build that trust in that moment. And they kind of mix those two scenes together for this, and I thought it was

effective. Yeah. And right, at the end of the episode, we get introduced to, you know, who we suppose is Henry and Sam, the people that the hunters are looking for that, according to this woman, Kathleen Henry betrayed them in some form. So maybe I think what's implied is that he ratted them out to or ratted Kathleen out to fetch her that her brother was infected, and then fedrick killed her

brother. And she's just like, I believe Kathleen's maybe a person that believes that, like, that doctor, maybe could have saved her brother even though you know, there's, you know, quote, unquote, no cure. And I mean, I think they might play into that a little bit next week with like, maybe it might slip through the cracks that Ellie is, you know, was bitten, but not infected like that. Henry was right, or actually the other way like that the doctor was

right. But I mean, to Henry, his whole life is probably it's not probably it is about, you know, keeping Sam alive, too. Yeah. So it's cool. It's, it's really cool. Is it cool? Yeah, it's, I mean, it's cool, like at a dimensionality to, to these characters and kind of giving them a motivation that exists outside of Giovanelli. Like they have their own kind of storyline. And I think that's, that's kind of neat. And looking forward to seeing how it's all going to culminate next week.

Yeah. And I mean, my, the big takeaway, and I touched upon it a little bit is is the standard and that Henry and Sam is going to be like, you know, they're going to be a proxy for for Joel and Tommy. And I do think that we might see some flashbacks to Joel because we teased it in this episode, Joe talked about it a little bit, hey, my like, this is what happened with my brother, like, I need to make sure you save Who's the other person in this universe that we know of that needs to keep his

brother safe. That was Henry to Sam. So I think it's going to be a similar situation to that too. And we're going to they're going to tackle it a little bit and I do think we're going to meet we might start the episode like that we might get another cold open with you know, Joel and Tommy and then we might cut back to Henry and Sam and see like, they're in the same situation that they were into. So it's it's super cool. The show continues to be great and continues to get increased

viewership. Every episode gets more eyes on it than the last. And this one is going to premiere on Friday. Yes, because of the Super Bowl. So which is cool, which makes me think that HBO wants people to watch this episode. Eyes on it. So this episode's got some energy because just from the promo I mean, you know, I won't even save say what the what the big reveal was, it's, you know, yeah, similar to an episode two

type reveal. But it's gonna be you know, for Episode Five, but I mean, the big the biggest thing from Episode Five that Saturday and Sam's episode so yeah, so definitely look forward to it. The show continues to be absolutely stellar. So we'll see what happens with episode five. So now we can move into the news. First, but the news is

July survivor has been lead up until late April. So pushed it back about a month and a half. You know, make sense. I mean, you know, I say this all the time about games, like, if you got to polish some stuff and push some things back, go ahead if you got to clear out for for something else include out for the magic size elephant in the room. That's

Hogwarts legacy. So yeah, I genuinely do think his if the game would have got pushed to June, I would have been like, okay, something might be up with the game. But IGN just posted the nine minute, you know, preview of the game, they did a big clip and they showed some gameplay off. So that tells you that game is probably done. But I just don't think I think Hogwarts legacy started picking up a whole lot of steam over the

last month. So they were like, I think they were confident because Jedi survivor was like, we're off the back of a great first game. We're in the Star Wars universe. We're cool. And then Hogwarts legacy started doing their previews and they started saying the features of the game. And then Jedi survivors like yeah, we might need to, we might need to clear out a little bit and give them a little because it was only going to be a month in between the two

of them. I don't think that was enough time because I think previous like December, maybe they were like we're fine. Like we don't need to worry. And then like I said Hogwarts legacy started really like, you know, early reviews started coming out people were really gushing over this game. So I think they're like, alright, we maybe need to end hunger. What's legacy by all accounts is a is a pretty big

game. It's not a game that you can breeze through in a few hours, it's going to be more of that open world RPG experience where it's going to take you 40 5060 hours to complete and see everything so make sense, you know, for for any other game to it's, it's you know, it's the thing that movies do. Also movies do do this. Where, you know, a big thing is coming. I mean, we saw this in 2014 shows this year, we saw this year of

Shazam and Avatar. Yeah, Shazam and Avatar, I mean, civil war and Batman vs. Superman were destined to collide. It was like, it was like a two week difference between the two of them. I think it was BBs moved. Right. So or moved back because I think they were both slated for March release. Yeah. And then Civil War said we'll take the summer slot and make a better movie. Yeah. So you know, this isn't uncommon. And like I said, it's never a bad thing to to tweak some things, fix some things

before launch. If you need to. Just take your time with things. I think that's that's good. I mean, I forget what game is that talked about? That kind of thing. Really, you know, just wanted to kind of I think it's Insomniac Insomniac talks about this with Spider Man. You know, the reason the release window is so big is because we want to give our people time to work on it and not be crunched and overstressed and overworked. The game's gonna get here when it

gets here. So, you know, not a big deal, but we got some Abbott's. Speaking of Avatar, we

got some avatar casting. So that's exciting. Avatar three is ramping up already. Because it's, you know, now coming out next year. Yeah, we're on we're on. We're on track now with these avatar movies. So Oona Chaplin, who you might know as Charlie Chaplin's great, no. great granddaughter, granddaughter. No, I think she's really this real. Yeah. This is news to me. Yeah. She just watches the news section. Yeah, she's related to Charlie Chaplin. I can't remember what

they are. She's a nepotism baby. Great, nice, great, something, something like that. But you people may know her from Game of Thrones. She was the reason Rob Stark got beheaded. But you know, she was given that show, but she has been cast as the leader of the fire tribe in Avatar 30, which James Cameron has talked about, you know, they're going to explore the ash tribe of Pandora and she's gonna accessible moving mixed with a new tribe. That's a potent mix.

Yeah, so she's gonna be it's gonna be cool to get kind of a female leader of these tribes. But we haven't really had before. We had the Terry's father and the first one we had the guy from the C tribe, even though Caitlin's love was really the leader of that tribe. But now we're gonna have a full fully fledged female fire tribe leader which is cool which is cool. Yeah, I'm there's something there's some there's some real energy to

these movies now. I mean, the second one really solidified that but the third one comes out and everyone's like who's seen these movies? Yeah. Everybody stopped because now it is the fourth highest movie fifth is fourth. I think now I think it is fourth now of all time, so I guess the people that that don't sit on Twitter for 12 hours a day are the ones that want to go see the movie and got it to that so yeah, I the exploration of this world I

think is interesting. I think I think something with you know Sigourney Weaver's character is gonna play into it like she's got something she's she's avatar Jesus. So I think they're going to mess around with that a little bit more. She might be able to connect to these tribes, but I think this tribes definitely going to be a little bit more antagonistic. I think that's going to be the play because their rent then the other ones are blue. So, yeah, Color Theory color. Film color theory.

Yeah, we talked about you know, we talked about that when we talked about the way the water like it's cool that now we're I got you're gonna say the whole monologue from the movie and he said it's cool that we're kind of getting into the we're just trying different stuff the big planet. Yeah, we did. We did the forest. Now we did the beach. Now we're gonna do a volcano. What's after that? The sky so, you know, just looking forward, I'm in. You already know this. We all know that.

And I think there's a time jump for this movie. Makes sense. I know. I know bollocks gonna narrate this Russolo AKA, essentially, what a, in my opinion, what a solid decision to make, because you set him up on the same path that Jake was also the outcast that he was the outcast of his family. And I mean, we focus so heavily on family so I think that's a great decision. Like to have him be our point of view character because like, now he is just

like us. We're in the world, but like, we're still learning things that we need to we need to know so I think that's a pretty cool perspective. Yeah, I totally think Jake served this time and the series on a villain arc, according to James Cameron, I think which is awesome. Yeah, I can't wait till they go back to Earth. You got hints of it. And then avatar to that she, you know, just got Darkside? Yeah, she's definitely she's

definitely got a dark side. And then the last bit of news before we get to all the DC stuff, the

gladiator sequel that we've talked about, over the last couple of weeks, briefly in these new segments is coming out next year. Yes. So gladiator two is coming out at the end of next year. November 2024. Yeah, November 24. I believe so. It's probably going to be a Thanksgiving release. Yeah, that week. That weekend. So awesome. I mean, I've gushed about Paul mouse called last week, we talked

about the Oscars. I think he's a he's an actor that's going to he's going to be like the indie version of Jonathan majors where like Jonathan majors are going to say in the mainstream, where Paul Mezcal is gonna go on that like, you know, so, you know, smaller budget movies, but those super artistic movies, I think he's, he's got so much talent, and I'm glad he's getting a franchise like this. I mean, one of the more notable action movies of all time, to be honest, so I'm glad he's getting

getting that. You know, who, you know who should have played Paul mescal character? Maybe the guy that actually maybe the kid that actually played him should have played this character? Yeah, I would imagine he would have he was right. That's, that's a little that's a little Von Strucker from really? Didn't know that. That's cool. What are what he was doing? Probably just nothing. Probably nothing. They were boring. Let's get a get a real actor to do this. He's not he's a

real. He was doing some acting Agents of SHIELD or when they scrambled his mind. One day and we'll talk about agency shield, for sure. Probably, we could probably talk about it like leading up to see Gruden seeking evasion because agents are Bennett may or may not be in that it's called Bennett the worst liar and much worse than Andrew Garfield. She's pretty bad. Oh, yeah. Because she had to rightfully so she had to defend her honor on Twitter. Yeah,

because people are jerks. And then And then she said that and then she had to put out the video that no way shape or form by in this and then she's just like, you're gonna get proved wrong then. I don't mean anything in a little bit. Yeah, she's coming back. She's probably coming back. Yeah. What's what's catching up to? What's coming up to something's up? Something's up. What do you mean? Are you beginning to think he's no good. Okay. Yeah, I'm on his side. We'll get into

that next week. I personally want him to win. Again, I think this villain might be doing villain thinks villainous, or is it order? Both POF F O FF, Bo, DC stuff before I go on my ranting Yeah, we're gonna do that right now. DC stuff. So James Gunn and

Peter Safran did their best Kevin Feige impression James Gunn sons. Yeah, sounds baseball cap. I was disappointed he should have he should have had one. That's his white beard and hair. So I guess that's his baseball cap and his glasses. Thick rim glasses anyways, yeah, that's a good silhouette. He was like Hello, I'm James Gunn we know. We know where you are.

Where's Henry? Cavill people welcome welcome to cribs This is my DC behold my stuff like carbon and Thor Ragnarok can't live with Carl crazy that's amazing. So yeah, the the official DC chapter one gods in monto mock the Gods and Monsters

has been revealed. Marvel very Marvel like presentation James Gunn clearly clearly been taking notes from from big Kev it's like one like, you know, it's like when you have like your big boss and then like the guy that's moving up and he finally gets the job and now they're like peers. He's like emulating the old boss. How did you get here? That's what this what I look man. It worked. worked for

Marvel. So let's, you know, let's try to, you know, try things a little marvel lish, borrow borrow some things from them, but also, you know, make things distinct. And I think that's kind of what this slate that he unveiled is kind of hinting at that it's going to be in the vein of Marvel, like we have, instead of phases, its chapters, and here's our movies, here's our shows. And then we got this other stuff on the side, which is basically what

Marvel did. So I guess let's just start with the movies. Sure. Let's actually start with the shows I want to end

the show. So the first show creature commandos sent me an animated series as we kind of know what the HBO DC stuff animation has kind of always been their strong suit and I mean, when you go back to Justice League, and Batman The Animated Series, the movies, the animated movies, Batman, beyond all that stuff, Harley Quinn, this is kind of their bread and butter so it's cool that James Gunn is folding that and also like kind of keeping with the the strength of what DC has done

over the years has been they're animated stuff and in true James Gunn fashion, he's taking these characters nobody's heard of, and I don't want to hear them to an animate and they get around to the authority. That's where I'm really going to get into my rant about James Gunn in James Gunn. You should trust but creature commandos red flags, Dad's gonna be in this yep, I don't know why I want Jeffrey Dean Morgan to play to play Rick Flag Sr. I don't know why I feel like that's just right. But that

would be kind of cool. weasels back weasels back so we I was weasel just like, he's like the Wolverine. He just doesn't age. That would be hilarious. That is actually hilarious. Yeah, but I guess this is going to take place during the they might I think they're gonna switch it from the 40s to like the 60s because Rick flags that 80 years old. So I think they're going to switch that around real quick.

And they're going to make it like, you know, they might do like a Vietnam War type of thing instead of the same thing that was Ironman, like, for Ironman, obviously, the comics, who are the movie didn't come out in 1960. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't the Vietnam War. They switched it to the Afghanistan war for Ironman one. I think this is going to be the same

thing. They're going to move the timetable up to either the 60s or the 80s Yeah, I mean, you know, like I said, the animation is always been the strong suit. I think this stuff going like on HBO Max gives it a little more leeway to be a little more nutty and crazy, which I mean, as Harley Quinn has proved is a good thing. At least as the animation is concerned. So yeah, I'm all for it. I like new things I like being exposed to new things characters. I don't I don't

know. I've never heard him like

I think that's super cool. So Amanda was getting a show which is not surprising um the biggest reason I'm okay with it is because Viola Davis award but she got one Yeah, II got winter Viola Davis, she finally kind of gets her time to shine in the sun is like the main character or something and I I mean, my big what I always say to the people that say why do we care is Peacemaker like that's my answer to all that and I I'm like And I'm talking about it like I'm Colbert number one of

one they announced these shows in 2019 that I was like, why are we getting a Loki shot this doesn't mean anything and then it's my favorite show that came out of this like I didn't know at the time but like that's why like it's the surprises you get and like it's there's still a

story to be told. So this is gonna take place you know inside of the the Okay, so I think this flash movie is going to reset everything like I didn't I thought before they were just gonna say alright new slate we're not going to address the things I do think the Flash movie like he's going to run and then he's going to reset everything he's gonna run Yep, he's gonna do some running as the flagship Yeah, yeah, it's all great flash moments involve him running so this takes place

in between Peacemaker season one and two and some of the peacemaker squad will be with her was a min Amanda Waller wasn't wasn't black Adam, so I gotta assume hardcore it's probably going to be there. Yeah, I don't really know what's going on because she got exposed and Peacemaker but then in black Adam it seems like she was back

in charge of something. So I don't really know what's going on you know, I mean, it's it's cool if they want to try and set by Viola Davis's character Amanda Waller up is kind of like the Nick Fury ish kind of character in this universe. I think that works. She's kind of got the same kind of fury isms.

As far as like not trusting anyone there's a mixture between Val and yeah valen victory because there's something and this is why in we'll talk about it when we get to Superman in the true beginning like he said of the DCU there's something I love about the Justice League being self sufficient on themselves.

So like you know, Batman himself and Superman and Wonder Woman kind of formed and they were like in the you know, you have flash Greenland through Martian man onto there like, and they were like, we're gonna make our own team outside of any like government oversight and like people were just okay with it. And I this is one of the themes that's gonna be huge is like, you know, the hope theme

forever. If I didn't like you know people and that's why I think they call it Gods and Monsters like Superman is a God but violet like but Waller has like Monster, you know monster integrity to her. So Monster Energy Monster Energy trademark. Nope, you can't do that. But yeah, I think this show the show could be cool. They said it's like a big epic for her, which

is kind of cool. So just remember what Peacemaker got after like, the beginning of Peacemaker was, you know, we thought it was gonna be a little smaller scale. And then it was just like interdimensional. Not interdimensional, but you know what I mean, huge intergalactic beast that was in the bottom of the cave. And then the Justice League showed up. And we're like, what's going on? Like, this shows huge. Yeah, so I think this show can emulate

that. And it's my, this is one of the final swings of the DCE. You too. Yeah, one of them Benton's so we're getting the much much weighted Greenland's here and show that was announced like the old testament of the DCU old test. This was before the TC we were supposed to be getting this Green Lantern show that revolved around how Jordan and Jon Stewart and lo and behold, that's part of the slate also.

So that's what this is going to be described as a true detective Style Show with the Green Lantern Corps, which is intriguing. Yeah, I mean, I I love the Green Lantern mythos. I mean, even before you know, Jeff, John's run, it's, it's rich, it's gotta love. And that's something that's great. And we talked about, like, the DC individual characters have some of the best, you know, ongoing

storylines. And I mean, you date that so you know, 40 Such 60s For most of these, these characters, like it's rich, so you can get after a lot. I wonder where they're gonna put how Jordan like, I think that's the best way to kind of date the show and like kind of in universe state, the show of like, what we're going to get after, because where are you going to start how Jordan like, I think something interesting would be to like, start him after parallax took him over.

But I just think there's something big about like parallax being the thing that takes over the universe. So a couple things from this. I mean, one a the True Detective cell is insane. Like, and I know the show is gonna be a little bit darker. I mean, he said, like, he gave us our homework, which I

think is cool. Like the Geoff Johns run is the thing you want to read if you want to, you know, be prepared for a show like this, because he said, it's how Jordan and John Stuart, but there's going to be other Lancers that show up. So I think that's kind of cool. But I think I think I have a feeling what I would I think the big thing they're getting after, I think because they he said they're gonna like unravel a mystery,

right? Yeah, I think it's gonna be Necron like, they're gonna do that whole thing with the black hand, and they're gonna get after that. And then I think the thing they might try to get to his darkest night, because we've already been through the dark

side stuff. Very recently. Zack Snyder, so I think he takes a swing, because Blackest Night was like a huge hit when that came out in two was that 2009 2008 2009 Like, I was a massive I remember being a kid and like, you know, I was picking up those I was trying to find those comics like online like I was trying to find them because like, how huge like I heard about it, like, that's how big that event got. So I think that's the thing they're trying

to get after. Because swamp in this is the end of this, but Swamp Thing also has to deal with the blackest night because it's some I haven't read it in a while. But it's like, I think it's swampthing kind of feel something's wrong to like, there's stuff that happens

there. So I think the thing that's gonna happen is like, I hope they really lean into this Greenland's or stuff like I really, like I talked about that in our, in our theory, like, I think that might be your best route, because you can stay earth based or you can go or you can go to space, and I think they're going to do both, but this one, he said, terrestrial, so I think like, this whole Blackhand Necron thing is going to start and then like the end of the phase might be the blackest night.

Yeah, that makes total sense. And I like kind of how this is this, this feels like it's gonna be like the most important show that they do. I don't think that's an accident that that's the case. That Green Lantern is going to be basically the only member of the Justice league that's going to be on TV, but I think he's gonna like graduate to the, to the later on. Both of them are Yeah, and again, the big I got, you know, a couple things we can talk

about. I mean, through yours, like casting I think, you know, I this is Glenn pals role or loose in my opinion. I I truly do think it's gonna be Glen Powell, and I can't remember his name but but payback from from Top Gun. I think they would be a good tandem, because they've already worked together to I think that would be really cool. That'd be cool. And they're around the state like they're, I think they're both in their early to mid 30s Rather than

palace 33. And I can't remember how old the other one is, like, I think that'd be perfect. Because the thing is to like, they also need to and it was something he talked about, they need to grow into these roles. Like it can't be like yeah, you know, tomorrow we're going to do Crisis on Infinite Earths. Like, there's something great about Superman being 25 in this universe, and like, How satisfying is that going to be

if this all works out? out in like 10 years, they get to like, you know, they do like Final Crisis or something and like the actor that's like in their mid 20s is like in their mid to late 30s. By the time they do that, yeah, like, what's up with this Superman and this Green Lantern like that's what I think they want.

That's the connective tissue that's made the MCU what it is now is the fact that you took Robert Downey Jr, as Ironman and all these other people and brought them on this 10 plus year odyssey like and that's why the payoff of Avengers endgame is so sweet and bittersweet because you're seeing these characters go through a multi movie multi decade arc, almost. And I think I think that's what what is play here. We got Paradise Lost, which is going to be a Wonder Woman ask Amazonian prequel.

Game of Thrones inspired is what he said. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I'll wait and see. I don't really have any feelings about this right now. This is like, this is probably the one I don't have any feeling about or Yeah, I mean, and that's gonna happen. I mean, that's the cool thing about not just comic book properties, but any kind of rich kind of thing is, there's a little bit of everything for

everybody. Yeah. And I think, you know, hopefully this can garner a certain audience, you know, not, not everything's gonna land for everybody. That's the trick with these multi phase projects, that it's incorporating a bunch of different characters and sources like you know, we can talk about that when we talk about the face for a marvel, like not everything is meant to be

enjoyed by everybody. And that's also kind of it's weird that I keep waffling back and forth with like, Thor love and thunder because now I'm viewing it through that lens also, like maybe that movie wasn't particularly nice for us so yeah, I mean that's if they want to explore more of the Wonder Woman Amazonian stuff I wonder if they're going to do some new god because I so and I mean, I'll save it for the end of this but I I'm still you know, holding strong they're

gonna get to the new gods stuff like I do think dark sides the true end of this whole thing but they're gonna do it proper like I don't think this is gonna be like a Zack Snyder seven movies and you're at Darkside already like I think this is going to be like a there's going to be a huge buildup but I think the new gods are actually going to come into play on this too. Like they're going to take a lot of inspiration from like Jack Kirby's Fourth World and kind of mess around with that stuff in

there too. I like your idea to bring bring Ava DuVernay back like if she was going to do it in the first place. Well, I just won't bring her back for this one to this miracle, you know, Orion big part. Like bring them all into this and see and get some actors that can stare on for a little bit like that can be another version of you know how the Guardians played in the

MCU. You know, these characters that are r&b I mean, for them, this would probably be their version of the Eternals is the new gods like these characters that you know, there's a cast of them. And you can get some notable actors, but you know, you can have people fall in love with certain ones for different situations and different reasons. Yeah. And then the last show on on here was, what's your goal? So this was another thing that is pre even DCU This is CW era.

Yeah, people were waiting for a Booster Gold at the time was Booster Gold and Blue Beetle. Yeah. Everywhere in the arrow verse. Yeah, my first episode of Arrow, they tease Ted Kord. So yeah, yeah, so it's cool that we're finally we got a little bit of booster golden legends of tomorrow played by Donald Faison. And they shouldn't have Zach Braff like Blue Beetle you absolutely should have. But unfortunately, legends

came to an end. So short lived screentime for circled on TV, so it's cool that they're gonna go with Mr. Gold. He explained it as like an imposter syndrome as superhero, which is cool. Like, I like these superheroes that have big flaws. And I mean, moon night for different you know, keeping holding with talking about face for moon night has a it's for

majorly different reasons. But like these heroes that aren't great people to start, like Mark Spector is not this great upstanding citizen to start. Yeah, obviously, he has reasons and you know, he has, you know, things that happened to him in his life. But Booster Gold is just the guy that wants some glory. And that's it. And I think it's gonna be a situation where he's gonna get thrown in over his head, like, he's gonna be like, Alright, I'm gonna take this future tech facts to the

past. But what I want them to do is I want them to run into like a super dynamic villain that's like, puts him in his place, essentially. And just like, I have to figure this out, like without the Justice League's health, I gotta figure this out.

And I think what he also might do, he also might serve as like a, you know, plausible exposition because he's gonna know who Superman is who Batman, and he's gonna know all these people, like, at the height of their careers, he's gonna know their children and their grandchildren. So I think that's gonna be an interesting

perspective. That might be the perfect way to end like on a TV show front end this because he might come back and be like, holy crap, that's like super like, that's the greatest year of all time. Like, what Clark's like 25 Like, he's still like, you know, super young and like, he's gonna look at him as like the greatest Zero of all time. I think that would be kind of cool.

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. And then I mean, I guess the last thing on the TV front is the red and blue elephant in the room, which is Superman and Lois James Gunn has said that that's going to continue at least for a couple more seasons, which we talked about last week. Good. We just got Michael Cutlass cast as Lex Luthor for the next season. And we both been so positive about Tyler acklins portrayal of

the character. So it's cool that you know, under this new umbrella that James Gunn has found a slot not just for Superman on the big screen but also keeping Tyler heckling

around. Also to do a few more things that Superman I do think this whenever this DCU is all sudden done like I don't know this can run for a while like because because of the agencies going with for some of the I mean the Superman actors kind of like giving me a gauge on this I feel like this thing could go for a while with like these main continuity heroes and just keep on running for a while like I think I think they're gonna do the Green Lantern thing I think they want

to put some distance between whoever the new Wonder Woman is gonna be in Galio dot like I think he's gonna recast everybody like I don't think there's going to be anybody that stays the only person I can see staying if you want to do the multiverse theory is what Amanda Waller like, I can see them keeping Viola Davis and be like, you know, in this university, it also looks like her. But yeah, I I'm just glad the show still

running. I mean, my point is, I think they're going to culminate to something like, I genuinely think that like he's even going to get the DCU actors to come back for some last crisis event. Like what we think Secret Wars remarkable is going to be is what I think like whatever the last like you call it, Final Crisis, you do it 15 years from now and like you get everybody back. Yeah. Yeah, that's totally cool.

And like I said, it's, it's cool that, you know, he's James, I'm not surprised, obviously, but that he's paid enough attention to the TV stuff that came before what he's working on to acknowledge that like, no, like, we're gonna keep Superman around because he's great. Speaking of Superman, we can transition now to the the movie reveals the first of which, which I think we both agreed would have been would be the perfect place to start this new DCU, which is

what Superman. So that's going to be the first official new thing, because obviously, the flash is still coming out, and Shazam, and all that other stuff. But um, Superman legacy, slated for release in two years time, July of 2025. And, you know, this is, like we said, this is where you would want to start. You want to start with Superman. So that's what we're doing. Yeah. And I mean, the biggest three biggest cause for me is one he's writing it. Yep. And I'm, the rumor that's floating around is

that he's gonna direct it. I think this is one of those situations where I think he was going to get somebody else to direct it. And I think he started writing and he was just like, who's going to tell the story better than me? And I mean, has he not earned this? Like he's taking these characters that we don't know, and infuse so much love and affection and, you know, tender love and care into them? Why don't we do it with the prototype superhero in a, you know, in world fiction and

literature? You know, why don't we do it with Superman? Why can't Why can't I do this movie myself? Like, I think I, you know, my pick is still Kaczynski, I think I think Kaczynski would this would be prime opportunity. Like to get a director that's like, just coming off the heels of one of the biggest movies of the last five years. That's not a Marvel movie. I think that's important,

too. And let them you know, own something that's this big, but I think I think Tom Cruise has got Kozinski under its under its belt, right? Yeah. But no, I think I'm okay. I'm genuinely okay. If he directs this movie. I think it makes total sense. I think, I think I told this to you like, it feels like, you know, he's, I think he mentioned to me, like, man, he's doing an awful lot. Like personally with us. And I think that's on purpose. I think he wants his hands on this thing to build

this thing up. And then once we get into whatever chapter two is going to be, disperse it and let other people kind of, but for now, he wants you know, he's he trusts himself more than just anyone else. Why wouldn't he? Why won't you build the foundation yourself? Like if we're going to do this and the big thing is the thing you talked about this all

the time with the DCU. And I mean, I'm gonna still argue it to the end of the day, I think the first two thirds of man is still in the very ending it got it. Like, there's this level of like, you know, there's a certain aspect that needs to be overlaid over Superman that you need to start with because like I said, you're dealing with the three prototype heroes like Superman is the he's the hero, like in terms of like, you know, we talked about fables like the modern day fables or comic

books. Yeah, that's what they are. So like, you have the hero you can't mess that up. Be you have the human like the guy that's been through everything that has most if not all of us have been through something

horrible. Like you have the guy that rose above all that is the human amongst these gods and you have Have you have this you know, beacon for for female strength, which is wonder woman like you have the three of them compiled like you can't miss on any of those like if those need to be the most solid of foundation. So I think for him he's like, I read my test trial, I got A talking tree and a raccoon to get a motion out of people like these three, I need

to do it with them too. So I do think he's going to get somebody to, to maybe direct a bet to direct. Why am I forgetting the brave in the bold, but I think the Superman movie he's going to do and he's like, we're going to set some things up. But the biggest thing I need to relay the FetLife need to lay the thematics is Iron Man, Iron Man, this is what's going to be the one that launches the whole universe. And it makes total sense that he's going to be the one to be hands

on. I'm sure. You know, it's the reason why. You know, Jon Favreau stuck along stuck around as long as he did the MCU 2021 Yeah, actually because he built Ironman he built the cornerstone it's the reason why you know the Russos kept coming back to do Avengers movies, even to Mac to do a thorough movie.

It me to even Joss Whedon before before the Russos was the one doing the Avengers movies because those people that are your your building blocks and your foundational pieces of your universe you want them on on everything, or as many things as you can get. It's the reason why Infinity War was so successful because great collaboration. Yeah, yeah. Collaboration between James Gunn was there.

Yeah. You know, and I think that's also you know, kind of an understated thing about why I think James Gunn kind of has such a good handle on this because over the last, you know, eight or nine years he's collaborated with so many amazing directors from so many different backgrounds. I mean, you think of just the directors he worked with on Infinity War. I'm on Kugler, Ryan Coogler, John Fabbro, Tyco with TD, the Russos. Yep, like just right

there. That's four different sets of directors that all attack things very differently. But we're all able to collaborate and create what we got what Infinity War, which is, maybe the best superhero movie ever, in your, as far as scope and scale and delivery. And what was promised. I mean, it's up there, if we didn't watch that woman was. So I think he's taking all that and starting it with the Superman movie. And then you mentioned braving the bold. So I guess we could talk about that.

Now, this is going to be the DCU Batman, basically. Although if that's my thing, because I wanted to say one more thing about Superman, but I can put it into the Batman part. So this is going to be the Superman or the Batman, DC version. We'll talk about the other Batman in a little bit. But this is going to basically introduce Damian Wayne, to the DCU team made mention of wanting to incorporate multiple members on the bat family felt they didn't get enough kind of play. And he's

very conscious decision. Because what's the one thing that expands that that Batman universe is so expensive, because of its villains that because of the people around that man, it's like the city he influenced by just putting on that suit one day when he was you know, in his mid 20s, like, influenced this entire city to you know, kind of evolve over time and then evolve into the, you know, the new age of Gotham

City. So I think what this movie is going to do, and it's going to put a different spin than what we've seen on Batman and my back he's getting, he's getting that simple as it is. He's been he's getting a son. I think what they want to do too, is put some separation between Ben Affleck, Batman and whatever this new Batman is going to be. I think they want to add a little bit more humanity back into this one. And I think they want him to be a tad bit more relatable

as well. Because I think he's going to be a point and with like, I think I said this he's going to whatever this Batman is going to be is going to be a point in between Christian Bale and Robert Pattinson. He's going to be somewhere in the middle of that, because for all intents and purposes, I think this Batman still might be kind of young, because Damien is gonna be what 10 to 12?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, thinking about it, like in all the aspects that you're saying, like, what you want to do is invoke the animated series and translate it to live action. That's essentially the Batman that you're looking for. Like that's the Batman your action? is that's the that's the white whale that all Batman things

should aspire to me. And if you're going to create a connected universe where this Batman needs to be a little more comic book II a little less grounded, you know, not like the Dark Knight not like the Batman used to be a float. You know, I think maybe the Affleck Batman went a little too far. I don't necessarily want to go

too far. But to that point, I think it was just so fast that he was already to that level where like, he was just with Superman like there was no gradual grace because there should be like a, like a fish out of water feeling and I think an animated movie that captures this I mean, based off the comic because Justice League war out of the new 52 captures he has like Batman's like, he's still We'll put on the face that he's cool but he's just like what the there's a floating man that's

flying around and there's a guy that has a ring that but he's still he's still in that movie takes the ring from how like It's like still does this detective piece of it too so I think this Batman is going to be you know probably around like 35 or something like that like bid like prime I think this is like this is gonna be like one of the first times like the Dark Knight is a prime that like we're gonna see like a prime Batman that interacts interacts with the rest of the Justice League like

we haven't we haven't seen a prime Batman do that. Yeah. And I was I was actually watching Justice League Unlimited, you know, I just wanted to say that DC kicks all go back to the Superman piece. So the biggest inspiration of pulling from that is all star Superman. So I think it's going to be a mixture of if I'm not mistaken, it's going to be all star Superman is going to be like it's going to be the the the feel of the movie is going to invoke All Star Superman, I don't think the narrative is

going to come close to it. I think the narrative is going to look a lot more like I think it was the new 52 beginning run for for Superman. I forget if it was awesome, or Action Comics, I think tackled a lot of his origin in the new 52. But I think it's gonna feel feel like that, like, the narrative is gonna look like that. But I think the feel of the movie is going to be off like hope, like the actual symbol on his chest. What it means like, that's like what he does for this universe.

I think that's the big thing for him. Yeah, that was before man then see is the casting. And I mean, we'll, I'll add that into the Batman, they gotta nail these castings, like these castings can't just be they can't just be people that they throw in there because they look like it or it can't be people that, you know, have a nice track record that like these people need to be found. They need to know what they're

signing up for. I think that was a big problem with the DCU is I don't think some of these actors understood what they were signing on for for and I mean, the big culprit for that is Ben Affleck. I mean, it's more circumstantial, because I'm always on it. I'm more inclined. I'm on his side for that.

Because, you know, he was promised to direct and star in a movie with Joe, Meg and Ella, and then, you know, it hits the fan at DC and Warner Brothers and then he's not allowed to do any of the things he was probably promised that, you know, you know, the toll it probably took him to get back into the suit and like, they treat him like that I'll never, I'll never love but these castings have to be have to be

dynamite. Like the Superman casting has to be somebody that like, and also the Superman casting has the most uphill battle because you're replacing, magically everybody's new favorite Superman over the last couple of years. It just came out over the last year that after everybody crapped on him that it's magically because he's gone. It's everybody's favorite Superman. But yeah, that's a big, those are big shoes to

fill. Because it's, you know, the internet world, people are gonna hate the casting out of the gate and regardless of who it is, or how they look or how they act or how you know, ready they are for this role, you're gonna get a lot of hate out of

the gate. Yeah, and the Batman casting has to go against Robert Pattinson which a lot of people including myself are really clamoring on to and b Do you have like you've said like this bit the Batman can't just be like grounded in realism or it can't just be you know, this big you know figure that Can you know go toe to toe with like Darkside like there needs to be this middle ground and like also like, like I think you need to capture the the actual humanity of what Batman is like that day

to day struggle like that he has but like now you're getting introduced the Gods and Monsters of this universe. Yeah, I mean, I think like I said, I think the blueprint is there. It's Batman The Animated Series. It's Kevin Conroy. It's grabbing one comic for this one is Grant Morrison's Batman which a lot of people as a little prologue run a lot of people think that's the best Batman run that there is. It's it's great. It's it's crazy. And

that goes right along. And Gretton James Gunn said he loves that run on Batman like because it's crazy like yeah, he turns into like a bat God in this like it's just it's insane man, that's awesome. Speaking of wacky and out there so the authority is getting a movie. I don't know a lot about the authority.

I mean, they're just from I forget what year it was, but essentially they're like their group that thinks that I mean Superman and I think there's a reason why he went right from Superman to the authority when he was talking about the slate it's like the thing that so that's who rents movies gonna happen I think at the end it's gonna be like you know, the iron iron man like this is Superman he's here to protect us all and the authority really weird at the end of the Superman movie if you

and I am Iron Man, I am Iron I am Superman that guy looks a lot like you but I think the authorities going to look at that and they're going to be like absolutely not like we are you know, I wonder if they might pull the authority from another university they might try to amalgamate them with like you know Earth three like the crime syndicate and do something like

that. Or I wonder if maybe they are just going to put the authority in man universe and just have them be these this like almost seven from the boys

X type of group. This this what like this vigilante group that you He has this great power that is going to be antagonistic to the Justice League but what I this is why I'm so inclined to believe this Blackest Night theory because like, when ish actually hits the fan like, alright, Superman's like, alright, Apollo, like we need to we got to work together like this is we got we have to be together for this.

Yeah. You know, like I said, it's, it's one of those things where you, you really, that this type of project is like the good graces project like it's getting off the ground because people are buying in. And, you know, that's why the Superman movie is so important because if the Superman movie fails, this

authority movie will not work. I feel like the Superman movie is also just culturally important, like this movie, just to like, it's the most it could be without kind of, hopefully I'm not hyper buzzing here by saying this, but like, it could be the most important comic book movie that comes out in the next 20 years. Like this is this is it

this is it? Yeah, because this is also an AI always you got to think about you know, the kid learns for this like, kids are gonna grow up with whoever this Superman is gonna be like, yeah, the same way when I met happened like I'm the case study for Iron Man like Beto people like around my age, like I was a kid when that movie came out. And now I'm not I grew up, I physically and literally grew up with the MCU. Like, there's going to be kids that grow up with this new DCU.

That's hopefully, hopefully Yeah. So this is why this is so important. Like, you got to get people to believe in this universe and in the suit. And where does this universe start with? It starts with Superman. Yeah, that's, again, that's why the Superman movie is so consequential. And then, you know, do you have any other thoughts on the authority? Or can you want to move on? I personally think this is this might be the hidden gem of this

thing. Nobody knew any of the Suicide Squad characters in this movie to like, I don't know why people are acting like the they know these people. Like after the Guardians came out, there was just this new narrative that everybody knows every comic book character. Like, it's just crazy to me that people were like, I don't know about the authority, and then the authority is going to come out. I think he's going to direct the authority to

Superman in the authority. He just he was too giddy about it to not direct it in my opinion. It's the one like that of all of these that like just really stands out and you're like, oh, James Gunn really does. Make Freddie Prinze Jr. Apollo that would be and make and make Matthew Dillard. Whatever the Batman said in this it'd be perfect. We're getting a Supergirl movie, Supergirl, Kolon, Wonder Woman of tomorrow. One over tomorrow.

Yeah, I actually started reading that comic that it's based off of make sense that you want to do a superhero movie? unclear if it's going to be the same person doing that's playing her in the flesh. Well, I think that's Henry Campbell's daughter, Henry Lowe. She's out. She's out. She's gone. I think they're gonna get a completely brand new actress for this. I can't eat. I can't think of any off the top of my head. Um, bring Melissa Benoist back. She's great. Yeah, she is. She is great.

She wouldn't, but she's great. Well, one thing about the Arrowverse I think they nailed their castings across the board. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah. And I mean, TV is a little different than movies like TV is a little bit less forgivable about you know, because they can throw somebody in and then they can immediately take them out if they want to, especially on the on the, on the Superman side. I mean, when you talk about Clark, the casting for that particular hacklin was

picture perfect. Betsy Teluk as Lois, she's amazing. Their dynamic is just that you buy it immediately. And Melissa Benoist was exactly She's exactly what was lacking at the time when it came to any type of Superman character. Like she brought it she brought that justice in a better tomorrow. She brought it and she was just magnetic, like from the first

from the word go. So yeah, I mean, you know, that's, that's the type of character you need for Super Girl is like that kind of she's she's happy go lucky, but also has that protective instinct. Yeah, it's also protective. And I mean, the the big thing about women of tomorrow is like, it's, it's a purpose type of film.

Like it's begging the question like, do we really need you because and I think they're gonna play into that too in a specially a lot of the a lot of things that these female superheroes go through in the modern age, like a lot of you know, horrible people don't want

them because they're a woman. So I think that they might, you know, have a little commentary on that because the big thing from this is like, she's seen so much death and so much loss and like, when the by the time she got to Earth clock was already Superman, like he was already the world's greatest superhero. So like, she if she was supposed to protect the guy that's already protecting the entire planet, then what's my purpose

in this whole thing? Yeah. So I think they said like, they're gonna pull, they're gonna adapt that comic specifically. And Tom King is just, I mean, he's, in my opinion, he's the gold standard of pulling a motion. And so, also I just want to Hi, I just want to shout out the sales of these comics. Yeah. And something that in my opinion Marvel didn't even wasn't even able to do like, I wanted to get the woman of tomorrow comic and it was sold out on Amazon like you can't buy it. You can't buy

the Swamp Thing. You can't bind the Swamp Thing complete. You can't buy Greg Morrison's Batman, you can't buy the Greenland's and you can't buy all star Superman right now. Everything is sold out right now. And that wasn't the case, a day before he announced this. So it's cool because like, they're actually pulling still, like, I don't think they're gonna, I think they are gonna, you know, freestyle because every universe

is different. That's, you know, The Last of Us, we've talked about adaptations, but I just, it's cool cuz he like gave me like, read this before you do this. And like, what does that do? mediately gets people to buy the comic and like, have it in their possession. Like, skim through it. So yeah, so that's, that's that's a really cool aspect of it. Swap things back. A Swamp Thing film, possibly directed by James Mangold. Yeah, yep. What did I say? What did I want

him to do instead of that? Oh, we don't full conversation about that. Yeah, I said I take him to do Oh, yeah, I'd rather James mangled giveaway Swamp Thing so we can do a Red Dead Redemption. Yeah, that's right. With Jensen. Ackles. As as Arthur Arthur. Yeah. It's one thing's cool. I've it's it's a fun, horror kind of character. Oh, I said, it's a horror. It's just it's not a multiverse of madness horror. Like, this is gonna be an actual horror movie. And it makes sense. I actually

believe them. Yeah. So that's cool. And then I mean, the other thing that's kind of lingering is is the flash. James Gunn said this is the best one of the best superhero movies I've ever seen. We'll see. We'll see. It's gonna serve as probably the swan song first. You heard the the old guard. DC movies you watch? Did you watch apocalypse? We're just I think that literally how the Flash movies gonna end make sense. It's the I feel like the screen might just come to white and then that's

it. Yeah, it's the DC us here. And like the DCEU is gone. Yeah, that makes total sense. And then I guess the other part of this is he he didn't forget about Joker. He didn't forget about the Batman. He's He's rebranding them as DC Elseworlds which is more as we like to call them DC cinema. DC cinema. Exactly. I think it's a perfect usage of the Elseworlds banner to kind of put these alternate universe stories and movies in their own little bat, so you don't even have to worry

about it anymore. And hopefully what that'll do is especially as relates to Batman, it'll curb that comparison piece, because they're not designed to be the same right? Not supposed to. The Batman Part Two is gonna come out in October next year. Yes. So October 2025. We're gonna get the Batman part two. I don't know what the narrative looks like. I just know I'm excited. Yeah, so that's perfect. Use the Elseworlds banner, like it's a popular thing that people are

aware of. As it relates to DC and to Batman at the same time is going to be interesting. Yeah. But like I said, I think it's perfect that they're putting Pattinson as Batman in this under this Elseworlds banner, because it negates any reason for computers. Yeah, no confusion, no comparison. It's just, this is what this is. They're different. Different universities, like literally different university don't have to worry about none of these

things. You don't have to worry about anything crossing over. You don't have to worry about any of that. Until you do a crisis on infinite or whatever they really think like, we're gonna if this thing I have, I have hope I genuinely have hope. Like, something feels so much better about this than we've gotten in the past. Like, I feel like there's so much more certainty this time to Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm still waiting to see on it. It all sounds good. I have a I have a money thing

that I'm feeling. I feel like the the I don't think they're in desperation mode. But I feel like Warner Brothers cleared out a lot of their executives to not only just in the I mean, across the board, it just feels like Warner Brothers had like a big shift. Yeah, so I feel this might even lend more to your Ironman. Like this is a movie. That Superman movie really is it

like if that doesn't work. This can be like the absolute financially crumble of like Warner Brothers itself, because what do they put most of their money into DC that's where they put a lot of their money into. So yeah, they have to they got to get this right. Danny DeVito is Superman. Imagine Robert Downey Jr. And here's the thing, I am Superman. You're just doing Marvel again. And it worked. Speaking of Marvel, so we are going to talk about MCU is phase four. Now I

should have made a different episode just to talk about etc. You should have that went way longer than I thought I was going to but we are going to talk about Marvel NOW. Man, it feels like a million years ago when one edition came out. Yeah, that was just two years ago. Two years. ago, two years ago when the MCU phase four officially began with one division off the back of Avengers end game, the biggest

movie of all time. And you know, it's a big, I think, you know, I don't think a lot of people really understood what a big step this was, yes, because it was literally starting over essentially, like, in the wake of endgame in the wake of like, the fan knows infinity saga of 20 some odd movies. wrapped it up. And now we're basically starting from square one again. And we started it with one of

us. Yeah, and I think what's, what's interesting about it as a is the time jump, there's a I mean, the the real world time jump, like we end game was in May of 2019. And we didn't get one division until what the middle of 2020 Yeah, and the world was stopped on top of that, too. So the world itself was different. So this gave us a week to week thing to actually look forward to in a really crappy world. So I think that was something that

was kind of cool. And it immediately what it did to is like, there wasn't some, you know, big opening chase sequence, there wasn't some big character reveal. It was just the 1950s sitcom. Yeah. And I thought that was a perfect way to kind of start this phase like just get it's giving us something that's like very calming to start this whole phase before you kind of get to the end of this.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think what this phase did was it really hammered home what kind of the other phases had been doing kind of a bits of pieces, which was, we're going to make all these things feel distinct from each other, good, bad or indifferent. You're going to remember each of these for for whatever reason, like I said, it could be good, it could be bad, it could be other. And I think one division was the perfect

example. And what one division did also was it set the bar Yeah, it set the bar as far as what you should expect from what the Disney plus side of the MCU was gonna look like. People went, but not me. Of course. No, I would never I would never think read Rich's himself and this year it was

absurdity. And this finally won a vision like I said, set the bar and you know, I think before we get into like the categories and everything I think the one thing about phase four that is just again kind of understated in the wake of criticism and people want to pick apart every little thing is just how like sick it is that all these characters we got introduced to us in Phase four.

That's my that's my biggest takeaway is I don't think people I don't think people understand like, phase one of Marvel was what was phase one a marvel, it was an introduction of all these characters. So phase four is a reset back to phase four is what comics what Marvel Comics did in 2015 with all new out all different after Secret Wars, like that's how I view this like this is just the new status quo for all these villains. The universe has lived in we had the V event of the universe like it

happened. So now we're going to get back to Sashko the character these be characters that didn't get enough time to shine for these eight characters. Now they are now the eight characters like one a maximum off like Bucky, Sam like there are, they are our eight characters Now unlike the introduction piece, and like, I mean, one of the biggest complaints about phase four is where's the overall

story going? Like what was the overall story going in the first one we didn't know what the big thing was until the very last second. Did this phase not do the same? Is it not clear that Tang is the big thing for this? Yeah, and did so pretty early on, compared to you know, it was four years before we saw that house in the post credit scene and of course credit scene run then we didn't see him again until for 2014 debt again in the

post credit scene. And even when we saw him in Avengers one in the post credit scene, you don't see the Infinity Gauntlet until Ultron is when you see him grab the Infinity Gauntlet, fine, I'll do it myself. And then you're like, Oh, it's on this unit. And that universe was alive for seven years before? Yeah, and this movie or this sequence of movies and shows has already shown us I mean, MN is going to do it, we're going to see King in full, like ready to go. But again, that's not the point.

The point of this phase was was character building. And this phase in my opinion might have done the best of like, you know, showing a dynamic range between how to you know, the hero's journey and you know, questioning the ideal ideologies

behind it too. I think I think it's kind of cool like that it's not just Thor was to have was down on his luck he was a happy go lucky guy that you know, was partying too much didn't care and now he's worthy and like iron in the same way like in Captain America is this all holy thing like these people that got introduced or are coming back from the phase are now at the at the top like, they had a lot more trials and tribulations of having a kid villain one of them

became a villain. One of them had multiple of them had to take the mantle from somebody else in Canada, three of them have specifically had to take the mantle from somebody else. And they had to deal with what happens. I mean, Sam is the prime example of what happens when you try to take that mantle from the, you know, those beloved people on like, the symbol, what's more important than man or the symbol? So I think all those things are

really interesting. That's I think that's my biggest thing that I liked about this phase, the characters that we got introduced. And then what we did with the minus Steven dr. strange didn't develop at all. Same Yeah, that's the point. Yeah, that's the point for him. He killed never learned. Yeah, so let's dive in. We got, of course we have, we have some categories to discuss. So you can you can DJ this one, I think the last one, oh, you

see the category guy. So I guess what we could start with is, let's start on that kind of character front. And let's talk about I just have written here favor origin, new character or character change. So like you said, kind of like those hero ascension moments, or one of those new characters that we got introduced to someone's origin story. So who was it for you? And I also should say, with these categories, we did try to incorporate a little bit of

everything. Yeah, so I know, we're not talking about the same four or five things. I know, for me how I did it. I'm gonna say one thing from a movie. And one thing from a show. Yeah, I think I did when I did was, I think I really did end up picking at least one thing from everything. So I think I did. I tried, I think there might have been a couple of things I missed, but I'm sure I'll mention them in passing. But I think I think I've pretty much

nailed everything here. So I mean, from the from the Disney plus realm of it, I think my favorite introduction of a character. It's probably it's a tie for me, it's probably between werewolf by night. And that's a good one. And I think between him and Mark specter are my favorite two introductions. I mean, you don't just get Oscar Isaac and just you know, let them not be heard or known. It's the he came in swinging in my

opinion. moon night. Whoo night was getting to like, I don't think anything's gonna get to the one division levels. But Moonlight was getting up there for a little bit. That show was week to week, you know, heard and seen and it was like very cerebral for people and a

different look for Marvel. And I think phase four it's a big thing for them to phase four is a lot of different looks for things it's not doesn't feel similar to other things that you mentioned a prime examples rose by night and moon night, those not even close to the same type of characters, too. So I thought that was that was really

fun. And then for the movies, my favorite origin story was the origin of Peter Parker Spider Man, I think he, again, if you bottle those three movies into each other, it's just the satisfaction of all the things and I mean, it's like the it's a lesson that Shang chi got and in his movie like that Michelle Yeoh was kind of teaching to him like you're a makeup of everything around you like Peter

himself. His origin story like literally it ended like his first those three movies are one if you look at those three movies as one and like infinity war and endgame and all those things, that civil war that happened to him as like little injections in the there like that final swing is so sweet and so satisfying. When you look at it that way.

Yeah, it's tremendous. We talked about it when we talked about no way home like that realization, when you get to the end of no way home and you realize, oh, this is his origin story. This is Spider Man. Yeah. Now he's Spider Man from the neighborhood spider man in New York City down on his luck living in an apartment broke all that, like they just gave it to us right at the end of that movie, which is really cool. I picked Kate Bishop. As my best new character

person thing. Sure. It's the Hawkeye show. She's the shining

star of it easily. She's gonna be a force to be reckoned with when we get this new Avengers thing, or Young Avengers thing kicked off, like she's kind of gonna be like the figurehead of this she got to work hand in hand with an Avenger already, which I think is kind of an important aspect that kind of goes a little overlooked to me is that of all the like new Avenger characters we've introduced to this point, she's the only one that's worked hand in hand with an Avenger already,

which already kind of puts her on a kind of different plateau from all these other characters. And I mean, what can you say about Haley Seinfeld? That hasn't been said already? Marvel as always, almost always nails these actors right when they were kind of on the set.

And it was they did with Florence Pugh as well yep for Black Widow and that's a great dynamic to kick off right away between the two of them were no surprise if that's what Hawkeye season two is I think it is genuinely might be just Keaton, then I mean, it could be just you know, not to kind of be a downer but the situation with Jeremy Renner like it doesn't feel like he's going to be returning to

acting anytime soon. So whatever Hawkeye season two is going to look like is going to be Very Kate Bishop focused if it wasn't going to be already it, you know, the Jeremy Renner situation obviously kind of forces your hand a little bit and if you're going to have your hand forced, I mean Haley Seinfeld is as good, a good and an adjustment you as you'd have to make,

right. And I mean, the the theme of this phase and I should have said it at the beginning when we first talked about this, but it's if I were to sum this up, you know how DCEU you know, chapter one is Gods and Monsters. Phase four is loss and legacy that's how I would label this this is what the heavenly this phase has to deal with.

It's the legacy of these characters and the legacy of this universe if you want to like a outside end but also the you know, how much we lost with how much you know these people need to ascend into the into their rightful place. And I mean, kid when I said there's three kids, one of the three she's one of the three that needed to step into somebody else's role. And it looks like Kate Bishop and looks like Hailee Steinfeld herself is going to do that.

Yeah, I totally agree. Well, you can't look forward unless you've looked back so we'll do a little looking back here your favorite call back to a previous phase of the MCU call back to a previous phase once you go first man Oh, you're not going to see this coming but mine was all trans returned and what was one thing that that show got right you just watched the clip before we hopped on it that might be the coolest thing that come out of phase four that people never talk about?

Yeah, I wanted to give I wanted to show us a little bit of love with my my selections and when I thought of that category bringing back all Tron in the capacity that he was brought back was just brilliant you know, the wonderful Tron had succeeded basically and then you know, becomes the vision you know, perfect body inherits the Infinity Stones goes on a multiverse rampage fights the watcher and a Dragonball Z fine. It's great.

It's even the line that like the the writing in that episode is actually it just felt like you know, that genuinely felt like I was reading a Marvel comic group watching that, like, as soon as Ultron like turns around, he's just like, used to speaking I was like, oh, yeah, it's it's tremendous. That's that show had had its moments. It really did. And that was like just being able. What I liked about that show is is it did take a lot of early face stuff and kind of did something

cool with it. And I think the old Tron thing is the best thing they could have done because I mean, the joke of Age of Ultron is like it was more like a week of old Tron. Like he didn't really do a ton of Tron is this old Tron is is ultra on the theory that led into the multiverse of madness is like how much does this what if show because I don't think you get Jeffrey Wright to voice it if he's not gonna play it at some point in live action, maybe soon to, you know, with Kang Kang being on

the rampage. And I mean, it goes to my bigger point of like, is this whole thing unconscious it because the multiverse ended? Like is that the only reason why we're seeing some of these things happening? But I digress from that. But I mean, for me, it's it's a very subtle moment and some super small. It's just one Hawk guys looking at the that little plaque of the battle. Yeah, I think that's I think that's a really great moment. I think Hawkeye has a lot, a lot of good subtle

moments in that show. One of my best parts of one of my favorite parts of that show. It's super sad is you know, when Nathaniel's trying to talk to him on the phone, the phone and he can't hear I'm like, that's good.

And you're kind of like translating, right and it's just, it's sad, like in what it shows is how much this guy has been through like, and that's what's good about see like Hulk is different, because it's like, Hulk has been through a lot, but he's also like a big green, you know, indestructible monster, right? But like, Hawk guy is a guy who like, he's like a guy that's been through all of this crap from the beginning. It's age of its Age of Ultron. Seen, you know, the city is

flying. We're being attacked by an army of robots. I have a bone out of all the glitz and glam that can come from being a venture that assumingly we're gonna see from Scotland and man three was getting a real book. Yeah, that we're gonna buy a hat. Before the next episode, for Hawkeye, it's just man, it hurts like, he's been through so much like any loss Natasha. Yeah, he lost the Tasha, like, and I love how like, standoffish she is to

Kate. Like he and it's not and you know what I even like more about it. It's not like a traditional standoffish it's just like it's like a dismissive like you don't I'm trying to tell you Kate like this life is not sucks this is this is where I'm going death because I fought with the Avengers. I don't get paid. I don't get paid for this Falcon. I don't get paid for this like this life is horror. Like I just want to take my kids and have fun but I can't like I

can't do this. Yeah, but as soon as my name got on that plaque, I signed the death water for myself. That's great. That's a great one. Favorite WTF moment? Yes.

Yes. just I mean it's it's got to be Loki episode six seeing just like the jaw drop I had like when I like I was in like like like just ran upstairs I'm like is that Jonathan majors What are you doing here like this absolute insanity that they pulled the trigger because I mean why it worked too is because of one division because you get your hopes high every single week for Juanda like oh it's just gonna be another variant Loki at the end and I thought it was going

to be Richard II Grant was just because he died the episode before so I thought he was going to be he who remains like you know old Loki like of course Loki is the person he is he said like Look he's like a cockroach like you're gonna survive anything like of course you would be the last person in the universe but the swing and the the subtle setup and what also it did and added a whole bunch of credibility to the shows too I think that might be the most impressive thing that like now

the shows actually mean something like the TV show in this universe is the start point for the only reason we get bought if and dr. strange to and the whole both the vs saga like I think that's kind of cool. Yeah, and it starts with the first Avengers villain made possibly the last Avengers villain Yeah, I could have I could have picked that but I went a little bit different direction with this. She Hulk infiltrating Marvel Studios yeah. Great absurdity in the best way. We

talked about that episode. That final episode of She Hulk and like that whole episode is bonkers. But her just just from I would say in the moment she she stopped the action in that final episode and she's like, wait, wait, wait, this is wrong. I'm fixing this she goes out into the freakin Disney plus interface is she breaks it open and she goes into the the Marvel Studios thing. And then we meet Kevin for the first time. The robot with the baseball hat. She

asked about the X Men. She She She rewrites her own finale. It's, it's it's off the rails. This phase? Really in like a nutshell? Like you couldn't do this in phase one. Oh, absolutely. People would call it looking insane. But now we can just go full comic book with these things. And and I think that's kind of the beauty of phase four. And a lot of these things is it just for better good, bad or indifferent and a lot of these things went full

comic book. And I think that that end of of She Hulk is just the embodiment of that in in the best way like this is what the best of this can look like and hopefully it's something that gets kind of compacted and expanded upon in the in the Deadpool movie with Wolverine like i You think she's gonna show up in that dead flight so I have a feeling I'm way more inclined to believe it now I even if it's for five seconds I think she would love it like that the whole tone of that

show was just brilliant so yeah ma'am. She Hulk infiltrating Marvel Studios was just you talking about when major showed up and Loki dropping your jaw like this the same thing like to me I was like, what is happening like this he says a good amount of those moments in here too. I mean, we can go back to I mean multiverse of Madness has probably the the I mean, I'm sorry, no way home has the king one of all this like, home has the jaw drop piece in

it. I mean, even one division has even one division has the Evan Peters, you know, infusion into that too. So that was a big one. What else do we got? Shang chi fries to Dragon. That's pretty cool. I think that's a WTF moment. Again, just going for comic books. Man, speaking of comic books, your favorite comic book callback. minds I couldn't. I was really trying to get one out of the out

of the shows. But mine is it's the it's the frame from that 2018 run on Sharise Black Panther where she's holding the mask like the literally pulled from the from the cover of that comic. It's the best comic book callback in this in this phase

in my opinion. Like, it's funny how like, you know, one image can speak 1000 words like that invokes everything that you need to know about what the cast has been through like what the cast and crew had been through on the real life and like what she's been through in that universe like it took me everything in my power not to make her my favorite origin in this universe because it because I think it's

truly transcendent. What Leticia Wright was able to do like I don't think people talk about how how incredible Her performance was in that movie

like so good. I genuinely think it stands up to to Angela bassins performance like she really has to do something that a lot of these you know funny characters aren't able to do like a lot of funny character stand that Rome she had a full evolution as a character you can't say that from she's so different than the movie from the Beginning it's so good that you weren't thinking I was gonna pick Thorin love thunder the, the the deceased carcass of

Malaga. That's a good, that's a good one is mine and, you know, obviously that that scene gets a bit of sting taken out of it just because of the movie as a whole. But um, I just I think that's the, the frame at least of the original trailer that tricked us. When we were like, oh, shoot, like, this movie is gonna be like, we're getting the god butcher like, Look at this. They were talking about a week of Ultron a week of the god books, they did the thing from the comic with the big dead god

thing. Big dead behemoth. And then sift showed up. It's it still looks great. And it's a great callback. I like it's ripped right from the comic book panel. And I mean, core. It's not there in the comic book panel. But he is in this but yeah. And then since there, but I'm not here to talk about if I'm here to talk about following the most gorgeous so I just

thought that was cool. Like kind of it doesn't have the same emotional punch as the sheer human but it's still still from comic which which I appreciate the horror. Todd. Let's do our favorite shot. Favorite shot. That's a That's a good one. Why don't you Why don't you go first. I'm gonna go to your tear tear movie, the Eternals the arrival of airshow turnouts at the end? Oh, that's, that's so insane. Yeah. I really like that one. It looks so good. That you're

like, Is he real? Do they bring in this giant celestial to film a cameo? Like how did they get the sub look like this? That movie is incredible looking. But him holding the rest? Like, whatever group of Eternals he has in his hands. They get Cersei Cersei can go and the other one, so she can go in Angelica Nope. Who lives in space the fastest? Fastest yet? Because he stays on Earth? Yeah, him holding them. And the earth looking like a marble next to him. Helps the scale is outrageous.

Again, you can't do that in phase one. No, you can do it now. And it's credible. Do you remember when we first saw the celestials and guardians, and we were like, what? They look awesome. And then the Eternals was like, hold my hold my beer. We're going to show you and I mean, every shot when air shows up is like Whoa, it's almost like that movies really show all shot. It's incredible. Like your job every shot when he every time air shows up. You're like

Holy moly. This is great. Like there's there's proper gravitas. And that's what you need when you're talking about the celestials like you need this you need this to feel important. And that ending when when you first see him from the earth perspective, like when the sky kind of parts and like you see him like in the sky and you're like holy moly. is happening. Yeah, so the arrival of airship proper arrival of airship to

Earth is staggering. So you go you go ahead now so there's, there's this really cool shot and moon night and episode four. I think you know what I'm talking about. It's when Mark Spector dies and his body is getting transported. Essentially. We still don't know what happened is munei real to this show actually happened. That's why That's my I gotta save it. Gotta save it. But yeah, there's where he's like descending in the camera kind of flips as his body's going down.

I think that's my favorite, but the camera is really great. He's like draped in that gold too. I think that's a it's a really neat trick that they pulled off too. And I think it was a neat trick. Camera of yours. Don't do it. That's your favorite line from somebody from Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx just played himself in Spider Man. It's so good. Damn, that Emile's W Washington. Fall in it. He's like, Yeah, I fell into a particle accelerator. Damn. Watching where you fall? Was

that it? Was that y'all? You really Yeah. Mine was false. So from the time that was a different shot and the internals it was just it was the beginning of the movie where we're searching hands the kid the knife and that wide shots just gorgeous. So let's see moving moving on please. I was gonna do favorite more more world building moments. So me I was like this. Always like this category. Bet you didn't think I was gonna talk about Black Widow here but I'm going to the introduction of

the Black Widow network. I thought it was really cool. Like, like I said, I'm trying to I'm trying to talk about anything in this? So Black Widow, the introduction of the widow network, I thought was really cool. And it really kind of retro actively makes you realize how dangerous Natasha is. Like, yeah, he's talking

about it. Yeah, they talked about how they send in these, this small group of women and they can destabilize entire countries like, overnight like they can just kill governments like in days and you're like, wow,

that's insane. I mean, I talked about it remember, it's one of my favorite fights from Phase four was you know, however brief it was what it was Natasha versus all the widows and I my favorite ideal from that is like, how formidable Natasha is as your own person because like, these people were training the same training she has but she was still fighting multiple of them in that room like she truthfully is the Avenger out of you know the Black Widow stew and you can you can tell based

off that so I think that's a really good one. Yeah. I I'm gonna have to go with with it's, it's a tie. So the TV show one is we've reached the threshold like that line itself and Loki is the very reason why maybe any of this is happening or a lot of

this is happening in here. So yeah, that that idea that the multiverse cracked open because Sylvie decided to kill he who remains and like, started, you know, the rest of Marvel, I guess the rest of the MCU it's that it's what this whole, you know, 456 phases or it's the multiverses saga started with that. So I mean, it's if this is the inception of this whole thing, I feel like I can't that can't go without being said. For

the movies. It's it's telecon it's it's the it's the introduction of this new world this introduction in a more I think it's it's super cool. My enemies come in. And then everybody called him no more and then he then she wondered why she killed he killed her mom, maybe because you keep calling him in his village and calling Coco car. That's my own personal interpretation. But yeah, telecon is that scene is gorgeous when they're going down in there. Yeah. Song that song

for weeks to come. It's a great song. The pole soundtrack is great. That movie is gonna come up when we talked about musical moments. Just spoiler alert, your favorite one or dialogue exchange in this phase? Does it also come? Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna just because I don't want to you know, go again for Black Panther. I'm gonna go to Wanda is pleased to get visions body back in. Division just turn like Shinola I just want his body like just that alone is

just like that whole scene. Man Elizabeth awesomeness when she does like the call back to infinity war when she says I can't feel you do killed the love of mine. Like for nothing like I killed him for nothing. Like he just immediately brace time right below rewind a time right behind like I couldn't do any you know, reverse card. You don't make me draw for Scarlet Witch. How are you? Like this? Mine? Of course. Of course I

was. This is where I was going to deploy my Loki card and go to here remains because this one line because it it's definitely not on purpose. But this one line is so emblematic of basically this entire phase. And I thought that was like retroactively Awesome. That like I made the connection. It's from who remains when he says you can't get until the end until you've been changed by the journey. Yeah, that's Marvel Phase four in a nutshell. Is

that is that one line? That I mean, you can pick you can cherry pick any quote you want. From that episode from him? Yeah. And it's probably the best one of some of the best dialogue you're gonna get. Yeah, it's this entire phase. But I don't just start stuck out to me. I hope they realize the guy they got to do this because they, they chose they chose right. I love how Shakespearean he I mean, I think this is just Jonathan majors as an actor

himself. Like, I love how how much gravitas he brings, but how like he who remains just feels like a crackpot. And like, that's just on the street that you might walk by. But also the same time like the most dangerous man in the room. Like, that's range to me, like that's range that he owns. And like, just seeing the Hitman trailers. We're gonna see it in a week. And then seeing that, like, that's two completely different characters that he just played in the same phase of move like

in the same two year span. Like that's insanity that this guy is able to do that. Yeah, man. Yeah, that. Like I said, that line just stuck out to me because it's, it feels emblematic of phase four. Like, just in general. Yeah, you can't. He's right. You can't get to the end until you've gone through the journey. And that's what the key apply to any of these characters in Phase four. Let's jump to your face. Every action sequence we maybe have the same one is it from Shang

chi? No Ooh, go ahead man talking to one of the soldier John and Buck John and verse Bucky and Sam in the warehouse. We talked about the scene, I don't know four or five times on this podcast but