How to Take a Vacation Through Video Games | PNWS Ep. 5

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:06:18 Evan Hey, everyone, and welcome back to this weekly show. I'm not ProfNoctis, but this is. Tell them what we got this week. 00:00:06:21 - 00:00:11:10 Wade This week we are talking about video game vacations. And can a game be too difficult? 00:00:14:28 - 00:00:18:04 Unknown You. 00:00:18:25 - 00:00:43:14 Evan Wait. I have a question. As we get into our new segment and especially since you had a really good time very late last night playing Lies of Pee, your Pinocchio action adventure game, which been playing and reading the original story of Pinocchio on. I hear they're making an audiobook of your voice reading it. That's pretty cool. 00:00:43:17 - 00:00:45:05 Wade Yeah, they're, there's some. 00:00:45:11 - 00:00:50:16 Wade People in the community that are stitching together all of the audio recordings. 00:00:50:18 - 00:00:51:28 Wade Big read, increasing level of. 00:00:51:28 - 00:00:53:07 Wade Frustration in my voice as. 00:00:53:07 - 00:00:53:15 Wade I get. 00:00:53:15 - 00:00:54:19 Wade Toward the end of the. 00:00:54:19 - 00:00:54:29 Wade Book. 00:00:55:06 - 00:01:05:03 Evan Yeah, we're getting we're getting to the nature of my question then. So based on what you experienced last night, can a game be too difficult? 00:01:05:05 - 00:01:06:02 Wade All right. For those that. 00:01:06:06 - 00:01:06:17 Wade Were. 00:01:06:17 - 00:01:07:03 Wade Not. 00:01:07:04 - 00:01:08:21 Wade Watching the stream last night. 00:01:08:21 - 00:01:11:13 Wade I died 50 times. 00:01:11:15 - 00:01:13:22 Wade Game boss. Same boss. I did not be the. 00:01:13:22 - 00:01:14:20 Wade Boss last night. 00:01:14:20 - 00:01:16:26 Wade I thought this was going to be the finale. 00:01:16:26 - 00:01:17:12 Wade Of lies. 00:01:17:12 - 00:01:18:11 Wade Of P, but maybe it. 00:01:18:11 - 00:01:26:24 Wade Was the final lie. Who's to say it is horrible? Horrible? I respect I reworked several. 00:01:26:24 - 00:01:31:28 Wade Times, And I just died and I didn't, I died and died and died and and now here's. 00:01:31:28 - 00:01:33:03 Wade Here's here's. 00:01:33:05 - 00:01:38:10 Wade The question. Can a game be too hard? And I just, first of all, want to say I'm offended that you. 00:01:38:10 - 00:01:39:10 Wade Asked me that because. 00:01:39:10 - 00:01:40:10 Wade The game is not too. 00:01:40:10 - 00:01:40:24 Wade Hard. 00:01:40:28 - 00:01:41:24 Wade For me. I can. 00:01:41:24 - 00:01:49:06 Wade Do this. I can beat this game. You I will beat this game. I know, and it will probably be today. Tonight. Who knows? 00:01:49:08 - 00:01:49:24 Wade Stay tuned. 00:01:50:00 - 00:01:55:04 Evan Yeah. Stay tuned. this will be this episode will be airing long after you have. 00:01:55:04 - 00:01:58:15 Wade It'll be airing. Laughter after it. Laughter. Oh, my gosh. 00:01:58:22 - 00:02:00:08 Wade It will be airing after. 00:02:00:08 - 00:02:01:21 Wade But you can go back and relive it. 00:02:01:21 - 00:02:02:19 Wade On the VOD. What are we. 00:02:02:19 - 00:02:03:02 Wade Anyway? 00:02:03:02 - 00:02:08:03 Evan What are we going to do? If you haven't beaten the lies of P before this episode airs? 00:02:08:05 - 00:02:11:23 Wade I don't know. you're going to have to probably knock me out because I'll be drowning. 00:02:11:25 - 00:02:13:17 Evan And good callback. 00:02:13:17 - 00:02:16:18 Evan That's a great callback to another segment. Oh, don't. 00:02:16:19 - 00:02:22:14 Evan That question can a game too difficult? This was in part spawned by the new Elden Ring. 00:02:22:20 - 00:02:23:13 Wade Yeah. 00:02:23:15 - 00:02:24:28 Wade Everybody's losing their mind. 00:02:24:29 - 00:02:40:01 Evan Much discussion about this game. And if it's too difficult and what that looks like. So we wanted to do an episode on, really just like difficulty and skill level in games and trying to understand a little bit more of the dynamics involved. 00:02:40:03 - 00:02:40:20 Evan Yeah. 00:02:40:22 - 00:02:43:08 Wade So, I mean, a quick answer off the top of my head is. 00:02:43:08 - 00:02:43:19 Wade That a. 00:02:43:19 - 00:02:44:23 Wade Game can be too. 00:02:44:23 - 00:02:48:00 Wade Difficult. but that. 00:02:48:00 - 00:02:49:11 Wade Doesn't mean that it shouldn't. 00:02:49:11 - 00:02:53:10 Wade Exist, right? Some people love that challenge. Dark souls. 00:02:53:10 - 00:02:55:26 Wade Games. Elden Ring is not for everyone. 00:02:55:26 - 00:02:57:12 Wade The developer said that. 00:02:57:14 - 00:02:57:23 Wade part of. 00:02:57:23 - 00:03:01:25 Wade Our identity DNA, he said, is that we make these really. 00:03:01:25 - 00:03:02:26 Wade Difficult games, and there's a. 00:03:02:26 - 00:03:05:00 Wade Specific player that this caters to. 00:03:05:01 - 00:03:05:10 Wade And. 00:03:05:10 - 00:03:12:04 Wade It's amazing to hear a dev say, our games aren't for everybody like I. And I think that that. 00:03:12:04 - 00:03:15:14 Wade Really goes into I remember when I was doing my dissertation. 00:03:15:16 - 00:03:22:26 Wade They said, if your research has no detractors, everybody agrees with it. It's not really. 00:03:22:26 - 00:03:23:19 Wade Groundbreaking. 00:03:23:19 - 00:03:26:19 Wade It's not really research. It's just a reiteration. 00:03:26:22 - 00:03:30:10 Wade Of what's already been done. So instead, niche down, understand. 00:03:30:10 - 00:03:32:19 Wade That you are one brick. 00:03:32:23 - 00:03:36:29 Wade In the building of research. I think the same thing is true in games. 00:03:37:01 - 00:03:40:08 Wade difficulty is important now. 00:03:40:10 - 00:03:41:02 Wade Is a game. 00:03:41:02 - 00:03:43:05 Wade Beatable? That's a better. 00:03:43:05 - 00:03:46:26 Wade Question. I think. And maybe. 00:03:46:26 - 00:03:49:22 Wade It's not beatable by every person, but it should be. 00:03:49:25 - 00:03:50:07 Wade Done by. 00:03:50:07 - 00:03:51:16 Wade Somebody. 00:03:51:19 - 00:03:57:20 Evan But video games have a unique ability to, elicit a visceral reaction from many of. 00:03:57:20 - 00:03:59:09 Wade Oh my gosh. Yeah. What do you do. 00:03:59:09 - 00:04:00:19 Wade When you get frustrated in the game? 00:04:00:20 - 00:04:06:22 Evan I think at its most basic, when I'm moving my body. 00:04:07:13 - 00:04:34:15 Evan With the motions because I'm like trying to physically dodge and I can't be aware of the fact that I'm like, oh, like making noises and dodging around. For those of you who are listening, I made dramatic moving motion controller, fake controller in my hand. That's at its core. But then I think, eliciting audible responses from me, like, when you die, like when I die. 00:04:34:17 - 00:04:37:08 Evan And I was close to beating a boss. 00:04:37:10 - 00:04:37:21 Evan let's talk. 00:04:37:21 - 00:04:43:16 Evan About this moment in gaming when the health bar gets to a certain amount on a boss that you have. 00:04:43:19 - 00:04:44:19 Wade Rolling. 00:04:44:22 - 00:04:47:17 Evan For, like, no, this happened to me last night when I was playing. 00:04:47:19 - 00:04:49:23 Evan And that health bar gets really low. 00:04:49:26 - 00:05:05:01 Evan My lizard brain goes nuts. I abandon all of the sound tactics that got me to this point in The Boss, because I'm like, I just gotta. I just got to finish it off. I just got to finish it off. So I'm not dodging. I'm not blocking. Oh no. 00:05:05:05 - 00:05:05:14 Wade That was. 00:05:05:14 - 00:05:14:16 Evan Me rolling. I'm not paying attention to move sequences. I am spamming damage buttons desperately so that I can just get across the line. What about. 00:05:14:16 - 00:05:16:27 Evan You? It's it's the choke threshold, right? 00:05:16:27 - 00:05:18:09 Wade Like this happens in. 00:05:18:09 - 00:05:19:09 Wade Baseball or. 00:05:19:11 - 00:05:20:10 Wade In soccer. 00:05:20:13 - 00:05:22:07 Evan It's like the game is. 00:05:22:07 - 00:05:24:16 Wade On the line and it depends on you. 00:05:24:16 - 00:05:28:21 Wade And your ability. And what do you do? You choke. You choke in the moment of decision. 00:05:28:26 - 00:05:30:18 Evan And then like, oh on. 00:05:30:18 - 00:05:34:28 Wade I hated it in sports and I hate it in video games. And it happened to me last night. I'm still dealing with it. 00:05:35:00 - 00:05:47:10 Evan Okay. Like I got this stupid boss. Yes. Like Zosia or whatever her name is. I hate her. So she's got two phases. I was pretty good on the first phase. Second phase? Make it all the way to the like. I have figured. 00:05:47:10 - 00:05:49:28 Wade Out the dodging mechanics. I'm deflecting. 00:05:50:00 - 00:05:55:05 Wade Legend of Zelda style. Fireball. Lightning bolt. Whatever's back at her. 00:05:55:08 - 00:05:57:03 Evan She has a hair's. 00:05:57:03 - 00:06:00:15 Wade Breadth of health. You can't even see the health on there. 00:06:00:15 - 00:06:03:14 Wade And in. 00:06:03:16 - 00:06:18:24 Evan I choke like I just like a choke, okay? Like I just straight up choke and like I had it in the freaking bag when hit would have done it. And she's shooting these, these lightning bolts that mean I'd like deflect, deflect. 00:06:18:24 - 00:06:21:24 Wade And then I hesitated on the third one and she. 00:06:21:27 - 00:06:22:22 Wade Obliterated. 00:06:22:22 - 00:06:23:00 Wade Me. 00:06:23:00 - 00:06:24:19 Evan And I. 00:06:24:21 - 00:06:26:11 Wade Were angry, which is like the number one. 00:06:26:11 - 00:06:26:22 Wade Rule. 00:06:26:29 - 00:06:28:09 Wade In like. 00:06:28:11 - 00:06:30:08 Wade Psychology. You don't go to bed angry, right? 00:06:30:11 - 00:06:35:13 Evan It's a great clip. Well, we'll have to include the clip in, the segment. So I'm still. 00:06:35:17 - 00:06:36:15 Wade Mad about it. 00:06:36:15 - 00:06:38:24 Wade I did my controller, Evan, I bit it. 00:06:38:26 - 00:06:42:29 Evan I bit, I bit my controller there. I think there's a tooth. 00:06:42:29 - 00:06:44:02 Wade Mark in it. 00:06:44:05 - 00:06:46:26 Evan Like there I bit it. I didn't know what to do. 00:06:46:27 - 00:07:05:01 Evan At some point. That's amazing. But I mean, I think that's true, though. There's something that happens when we hit this, like, I'm just about to get over the lizard brain. Yeah. lizard brain fires off and we lose our composure. This is often the moment where, for me and my brother in our lives, it would be the voice of our mother. 00:07:05:01 - 00:07:22:18 Evan And there's probably someone like this in your life. If you're watching or listening, who asks you one of two questions? Sometimes both in sequence. First question. Infuriating because our lizard brain is activated and the question is. 00:07:22:20 - 00:07:26:23 Evan Do you need to take a break? 00:07:26:25 - 00:07:28:26 Wade Somebody in the chat when I was. 00:07:28:26 - 00:07:29:29 Wade Struggling one night. 00:07:30:03 - 00:07:31:13 Wade Said. 00:07:31:16 - 00:07:31:28 Wade Maybe. 00:07:31:28 - 00:07:32:08 Wade We should. 00:07:32:08 - 00:07:33:29 Wade Sleep on it and try again tomorrow. 00:07:33:29 - 00:07:37:15 Wade And I was like, I dare not. You better not. You better not. I was like. 00:07:37:15 - 00:07:49:16 Evan Just the advanced. That's the advanced version of do you need to take a break? Yeah, maybe like a suggesting a concrete action. The other thing that we get asked a question and this is usually after the do you need to take a break is. 00:07:49:23 - 00:07:50:16 Wade Yeah. 00:07:50:18 - 00:07:56:11 Evan Are you even having fun anymore? 00:07:56:14 - 00:07:57:19 Evan And yes, I. 00:07:57:19 - 00:07:59:00 Wade Am having fun. 00:07:59:03 - 00:07:59:15 Wade But I would. 00:07:59:15 - 00:08:00:15 Wade Have more fun if you would. 00:08:00:15 - 00:08:00:25 Wade Stop. 00:08:00:25 - 00:08:02:01 Wade Yapping at me and I can. 00:08:02:01 - 00:08:03:08 Evan Get back to my game. 00:08:03:08 - 00:08:03:29 Wade Right? 00:08:04:01 - 00:08:06:09 Evan Yeah. And that really ends well when you say that to a. 00:08:06:13 - 00:08:10:01 Wade Oh, when you say that to a parent or. Yeah, as a kid. 00:08:10:03 - 00:08:11:27 Wade oh man, it's not good. 00:08:11:27 - 00:08:12:08 Wade Right. 00:08:12:14 - 00:08:12:29 Wade And so. 00:08:13:01 - 00:08:14:26 Evan But there is a. 00:08:14:26 - 00:08:15:17 Wade Component of. 00:08:15:17 - 00:08:20:20 Wade This that's like, I love to hate this. Yeah, I love the challenge. 00:08:20:23 - 00:08:21:25 Wade and I hate the challenge. 00:08:21:25 - 00:08:23:11 Wade All at once because. 00:08:23:15 - 00:08:25:05 Wade And this was true with Elden Ring. 00:08:25:05 - 00:08:31:26 Wade This was true with Bloodborne, all of these games. And like with lies of P, even with the bosses that. 00:08:31:26 - 00:08:32:28 Wade I've been able to beat. 00:08:32:28 - 00:08:35:23 Wade By, you know, the. 00:08:35:25 - 00:08:36:13 Wade you know, skin of our. 00:08:36:13 - 00:08:39:01 Wade Teeth or whatever, which is a weird phrase, especially after. 00:08:39:01 - 00:08:39:29 Wade You bite a controller. 00:08:39:29 - 00:08:43:08 Wade But, when you're just barely able to. 00:08:43:08 - 00:08:43:24 Wade Win. 00:08:44:00 - 00:08:44:14 Wade There's. 00:08:44:14 - 00:08:46:12 Wade Like, this endorphin rush and. 00:08:46:12 - 00:08:47:12 Wade Release that you're like. 00:08:47:12 - 00:08:49:03 Evan Yes, I will do this. 00:08:49:03 - 00:08:51:02 Wade Again. And so that gameplay. 00:08:51:04 - 00:08:51:16 Wade Loop. 00:08:51:16 - 00:08:52:13 Wade Of emotion keeps. 00:08:52:13 - 00:08:55:00 Wade You playing? 00:08:55:02 - 00:08:55:17 Evan I've never. 00:08:55:17 - 00:08:57:24 Wade Rage quit a game, though I I'll say. 00:08:57:24 - 00:09:00:04 Evan Never. 00:09:00:06 - 00:09:01:15 Wade I don't think so. 00:09:01:18 - 00:09:05:02 Evan I because, like, I, I mean, I rage. 00:09:05:02 - 00:09:06:29 Wade Quit like baseball. 00:09:07:01 - 00:09:07:27 Evan That's a game. 00:09:07:29 - 00:09:09:27 Wade Like I played T-ball. 00:09:09:27 - 00:09:10:05 Wade And then. 00:09:10:05 - 00:09:11:26 Wade Fast pitch baseball. 00:09:11:28 - 00:09:12:05 Evan You were. 00:09:12:05 - 00:09:14:04 Wade At it. And then I was like, I'm. I'm done. 00:09:14:06 - 00:09:18:11 Wade But I don't know if it was like a rage quit, but. 00:09:18:11 - 00:09:20:09 Wade It was more of like, I'm done with this. 00:09:20:12 - 00:09:43:17 Evan I am more prone to rage quit not from strangers, but when it's I'm playing a game with somebody who's really close to me. There's multiple examples of my brother innocently quote unquote, doing something in a multiplayer game that, yeah, I had no benefit to him, but certainly messed me up. yeah, that I've, you know, it just unlocked something primal. 00:09:43:17 - 00:10:00:19 Evan But I think the intensity of emotions can provide a window into other aspects of our lives. And as we are apt to explore, we like to talk about ideas and the things going on behind the scenes, in our brains, in our lives, and what we can learn from the way that we play games. 00:10:00:24 - 00:10:05:26 Evan So what? 00:10:05:28 - 00:10:22:20 Evan Is the best way to phrase this segment? I think our guiding phrase would be something like how to know when you aren't having fun anymore, and understanding the ways you like to be challenged, how to know when you aren't having fun anymore, and understanding the ways that you like to be challenged. 00:10:22:26 - 00:10:24:00 Wade When is it time to. 00:10:24:00 - 00:10:24:20 Wade Take a break? 00:10:25:12 - 00:10:27:08 Wade You know, in one of our previous. 00:10:27:08 - 00:10:28:02 Wade Segments, we. 00:10:28:02 - 00:10:29:15 Wade Talked about the idea. 00:10:29:15 - 00:10:31:07 Wade Of games, helping you. 00:10:31:07 - 00:10:33:25 Wade Recover, recover yourself. Right. 00:10:33:28 - 00:10:44:17 Wade And so something that I've got to be attune with is sometimes this happens with the things that come out of my mouth or the actions that I'm having. If I'm wanting to throw a controller through a screen or whatever. Yeah. 00:10:44:19 - 00:10:46:19 Wade We talked about this idea of. 00:10:46:19 - 00:10:48:25 Wade Gaming as recovering. 00:10:48:28 - 00:10:52:04 Wade Your lost self when you are. 00:10:52:04 - 00:10:53:20 Wade No longer recovering. 00:10:53:20 - 00:10:54:17 Wade Your lost self. 00:10:54:17 - 00:10:56:05 Wade But maybe you're living into that. 00:10:56:05 - 00:10:57:06 Wade Lost self. 00:10:57:09 - 00:11:01:27 Wade You're saying you're interacting. You're doing things that are not. 00:11:01:29 - 00:11:06:14 Wade Who you are and who who you aspire to be. That's that's one of those. 00:11:06:14 - 00:11:07:17 Wade Reactions that I'm like, oh. 00:11:07:18 - 00:11:11:05 Wade I maybe I should take a break. It's okay. 00:11:11:07 - 00:11:12:12 Wade you know, if I'm like, being. 00:11:12:12 - 00:11:13:17 Wade Destructive to. 00:11:13:17 - 00:11:14:19 Wade Things, if I'm mad. 00:11:14:19 - 00:11:15:20 Wade At the dog because she. 00:11:15:20 - 00:11:16:03 Wade Snored a. 00:11:16:03 - 00:11:16:25 Wade Little too loudly. 00:11:16:25 - 00:11:17:26 Wade Next to me. 00:11:17:29 - 00:11:18:20 Wade maybe, maybe it's like. 00:11:18:20 - 00:11:19:16 Wade Okay, let me go get a. 00:11:19:17 - 00:11:20:22 Wade Triscuit or something. 00:11:20:24 - 00:11:22:13 Wade And I'll come back a Triscuit. 00:11:22:13 - 00:11:24:13 Wade I don't know why I don't even own Triscuits. 00:11:24:13 - 00:11:37:20 Evan But I need to breaded wheat crackers that like apples and peanut butter or somebody. How do they weave those little wheat tendrils together into a beautiful. Yeah, I need someone. Give me a saltine. 00:11:37:21 - 00:11:40:27 Evan I'm experiencing transference of my frustrations onto my dog. 00:11:40:27 - 00:11:44:16 Evan Quick! I need a Triscuit. 00:11:44:18 - 00:11:47:05 Wade It's like that Snickers commercial that. 00:11:47:07 - 00:11:47:14 Wade Not. 00:11:47:14 - 00:11:49:26 Wade Yourself? Yeah, those are great commercials. 00:11:49:26 - 00:11:51:26 Evan It's true. It's true. I mean. 00:11:51:29 - 00:11:52:27 Wade I'm Betty White. 00:11:52:29 - 00:11:58:05 Evan I know friends who carry snacks around with them to make sure that in case their other friends get hungry. 00:11:58:09 - 00:11:59:03 Wade They feed. 00:11:59:03 - 00:12:02:01 Evan Them. So that's how you are with your granola bars? 00:12:02:01 - 00:12:09:00 Wade I that's just how my friends are. When we are traveling together, they bring emergency food for me, not for themselves, for me. 00:12:09:07 - 00:12:11:00 Evan Because they know. They know you're going to fall because. 00:12:11:00 - 00:12:13:02 Wade They know, oh, you're snoring too loudly. 00:12:13:04 - 00:12:45:17 Evan Okay, so let's talk about some ways that we can understand and why we're feeling certain way. So there's some research that was done that we wanted to talk about. that will help us to understand what to do when the thing that you go to, to restore you and help you recover isn't really serving that function anymore. When the thing that you go to to recover or restore yourself isn't really serving that function anymore, because you're either too stressed out or you're bored, or you just don't seem interested anymore because that's a bit of a crisis. 00:12:45:21 - 00:12:54:25 Evan Have you ever had that moment where the thing that you would normally turn to to help you kind of recenter yourself and relax, that stress of life. 00:12:54:25 - 00:12:56:02 Wade Becomes a moment of stress? 00:12:56:02 - 00:13:08:05 Evan Yes, yes, it's way into that. I mean, what what do you do? It's this moment where you really feel loss. You just kind of. For me, I just kind of sit there. What does that look like for you when you don't even want to do the things that you do for fun? 00:13:08:07 - 00:13:09:29 Wade Yeah. I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine. 00:13:09:29 - 00:13:12:08 Wade Recently about how he felt burnt. 00:13:12:08 - 00:13:15:21 Wade Out on games, and he was telling me, you know, kind of that feeling. He was like. 00:13:15:21 - 00:13:16:23 Wade Yeah, that usually. 00:13:16:23 - 00:13:19:12 Wade Gives me a sense of fulfillment and like. 00:13:19:12 - 00:13:20:14 Wade Just a escape. 00:13:20:14 - 00:13:21:11 Wade And all that kind of stuff. 00:13:21:11 - 00:13:22:13 Wade But lately I just. 00:13:22:13 - 00:13:26:00 Wade Feel like I'm burned out. There's nothing I really want to play and stuff. And the. 00:13:26:00 - 00:13:29:08 Wade Way that he mitigated that was, trying to. 00:13:29:08 - 00:13:30:14 Wade Reach channel into some other. 00:13:30:14 - 00:13:31:04 Wade Activities. 00:13:31:04 - 00:13:31:20 Wade So reading a. 00:13:31:20 - 00:13:33:01 Wade Book or. 00:13:33:03 - 00:13:35:15 Wade you know, playing music, he's a musician and. 00:13:35:15 - 00:13:39:25 Wade Stuff like that. So it was just diverting those things. 00:13:39:28 - 00:13:40:27 Wade Sometimes we do need. 00:13:40:27 - 00:13:41:09 Wade To take a. 00:13:41:09 - 00:13:43:02 Wade Break from the things that. 00:13:43:02 - 00:13:45:14 Wade We use to take breaks. 00:13:45:17 - 00:13:46:21 Wade you know, 00:13:46:23 - 00:13:49:11 Wade I think that we all feel that, but. 00:13:49:11 - 00:13:50:00 Wade Then there. 00:13:50:00 - 00:13:51:06 Wade Are these catalytic. 00:13:51:06 - 00:13:56:29 Wade Moments when the thing that we typically enjoy is no longer enjoyable, and there's an. 00:13:56:29 - 00:13:59:08 Wade Actual reason why. Okay. 00:13:59:11 - 00:14:00:02 Evan that. 00:14:00:04 - 00:14:01:04 Wade Well, and I. 00:14:01:04 - 00:14:05:13 Wade Think that it has to do with the play style. It has to do with the frustration. 00:14:07:10 - 00:14:08:13 Wade maybe, 00:14:08:15 - 00:14:10:26 Wade Escalating beyond our enjoyment. 00:14:10:28 - 00:14:11:12 Wade Of the. 00:14:11:12 - 00:14:11:23 Wade Thing. 00:14:11:23 - 00:14:13:17 Wade Now, you, have have. 00:14:13:17 - 00:14:14:14 Wade Done research in this. 00:14:14:14 - 00:14:15:00 Wade Before, like. 00:14:15:00 - 00:14:20:20 Wade You, when you were, in college and studying on a all of that kind of stuff. 00:14:20:23 - 00:14:21:21 Wade you've got a chart or. 00:14:21:21 - 00:14:23:00 Wade Something that. 00:14:23:03 - 00:14:24:11 Wade helps us out with that. Tell us about it. 00:14:24:12 - 00:14:30:03 Evan Yeah, let's talk about it. This is an on a mark that, I am presenting some research today. 00:14:30:04 - 00:14:32:03 Wade I know. Right? This is a big moment. 00:14:32:06 - 00:14:33:05 Evan reversal. 00:14:33:08 - 00:14:37:00 Wade I didn't know about this. You told it to me off stream, and I was like, oh, my gosh. 00:14:37:00 - 00:14:37:10 Wade That's. 00:14:37:10 - 00:14:38:09 Wade Something we need to talk about. 00:14:38:10 - 00:14:43:01 Evan Should I do it in your style? trying to imitate your cadence. 00:14:43:03 - 00:14:47:12 Wade Seriously, a believer labored and boring. 00:14:47:14 - 00:14:48:21 Wade My students would love that. 00:14:48:21 - 00:14:55:19 Evan So say you say da da da da da da da da da da. Now, this is the thing. Is that the da da. 00:14:55:19 - 00:14:58:06 Evan Da da da. that's not everybody. 00:14:58:08 - 00:15:00:15 Evan Oh, that's my prof. Nauseous impression. 00:15:00:17 - 00:15:01:21 Wade That's, There we go. 00:15:01:27 - 00:15:26:17 Evan There we go. Now, if you can't see, so there's a guy named Maha Yatra to Maha. Yeah. I'm going to spell each letter of his name so that you can just really appreciate that pronunciation. M I h a l y. First name. Last name. Chitta maha csi KZN t m I h a l y I. 00:15:26:19 - 00:15:28:08 Wade Holy crap, that is. 00:15:28:10 - 00:15:30:00 Wade A stunning last name. 00:15:30:00 - 00:15:31:02 Evan It's incredible. 00:15:31:05 - 00:15:34:19 Evan Does it have every letter in the alphabet? 00:15:34:21 - 00:15:40:29 Evan It's close. It's almost a quick brown fox jumped over a lazy dog. 00:15:41:01 - 00:15:43:11 Wade It's a reference. Good reference. 00:15:43:13 - 00:16:02:00 Evan Millard's going crazy. My dog behind me. so he wrote it. the flow in 1990, which is this theory that he has on the flow state, which some of you have heard about this kind of flow state and what it is, is it's a chart and so on. One axis of this chart is kind of challenge. 00:16:02:03 - 00:16:24:26 Evan So the ways in how challenged you feel the other one is skill. So how skilled you are at something. So when the challenge is too high for your skill you start to feel anxious or stressed. So if I were to say, Wade, I, there's a car outside, I need you to take apart the engine and put it back together. 00:16:24:26 - 00:16:53:26 Evan And two hours. That is not something that you would probably have the skill for. And the challenge would be too high. So that would be pretty stressful if I asked you to do that. But on the other side if the challenge is too low but your skill is too high, that creates boredom or apathy. So if I was to say, wait, I need you to go outside, and I need you to, count the blades of grass in your yard, you would get pretty bored and apathetic. 00:16:53:28 - 00:17:25:17 Evan yeah. Activity. Right. But he says when skill appropriately matches, challenge, when skill appropriately matches challenge, that's where you're in the sweet spot. And what he observed in his research was you can get into what he called a flow state around that, where you kind of lose track of time a little bit. It feels like there's this window where you can be appropriately challenged with the appropriate skill, and you will grow and not feel overly anxious and stressed, and you won't feel bored. 00:17:25:21 - 00:17:35:23 Evan So we have the ability to understand and steward the level of difficulty and our skill set in the way that we play games and in life. What do you think about that? 00:17:35:25 - 00:17:38:13 Wade I have, I, I love it first. 00:17:38:13 - 00:17:39:16 Wade Of all, and I think that it. 00:17:39:16 - 00:17:40:02 Wade Does. 00:17:40:02 - 00:17:42:10 Wade Mirror my own experience of games. I have a. 00:17:42:10 - 00:17:42:21 Wade Couple of. 00:17:42:21 - 00:17:45:02 Wade Questions. 00:17:45:04 - 00:17:46:27 Evan challenge is that static. 00:17:47:03 - 00:17:50:00 Wade Challenge does not change for something. 00:17:50:00 - 00:18:04:17 Evan So the level of challenge would be depending on the activity. So like if we just quantify at zero through ten right, right. you would just plot it like kind of like on a, on a chart. So you would say what's the challenge level of this activity and challenge? Would be. 00:18:05:04 - 00:18:15:05 Evan Different, you know, for each person to write like, because it's your skill set and your perception or experience with the challenge, it's not necessary. Okay. But universal. 00:18:15:08 - 00:18:16:14 Wade But for an activity. 00:18:16:14 - 00:18:17:05 Wade Or something like. 00:18:17:05 - 00:18:17:24 Wade That, a. 00:18:17:24 - 00:18:24:24 Wade Challenge, is kind of set in stone. 00:18:24:27 - 00:18:26:14 Wade but the skill set of. 00:18:26:14 - 00:18:27:10 Wade The person is the. 00:18:27:10 - 00:18:28:29 Wade Variable there. 00:18:29:02 - 00:18:30:05 Wade to, to a degree. 00:18:30:10 - 00:18:31:10 Wade Yeah. So like. 00:18:31:12 - 00:18:33:20 Wade It may not be challenging, but it really. 00:18:33:20 - 00:18:34:07 Wade That that. 00:18:34:07 - 00:18:34:29 Wade Challenge is. 00:18:34:29 - 00:18:35:23 Wade Always a level. 00:18:35:23 - 00:18:36:20 Wade Seven. 00:18:36:22 - 00:18:38:27 Wade If I were to quantify it. But your skill. 00:18:38:27 - 00:18:40:05 Wade Set may not match. 00:18:40:05 - 00:18:40:18 Wade That level. 00:18:40:18 - 00:18:41:17 Wade Seven. You may be a level. 00:18:41:17 - 00:18:41:29 Wade Five. 00:18:41:29 - 00:18:44:15 Wade Or you may be a level ten, which is going to. 00:18:44:16 - 00:18:46:00 Wade Create anxiety or. 00:18:46:00 - 00:18:47:15 Wade Boredom. 00:18:47:18 - 00:18:48:23 Wade as a result. 00:18:48:26 - 00:18:49:20 Evan I think that's a really. 00:18:49:20 - 00:18:50:11 Wade Interesting. 00:18:50:11 - 00:18:52:00 Wade Piece there because especially as. 00:18:52:00 - 00:18:54:04 Wade We're talking about games like Elden Ring or Lies. 00:18:54:04 - 00:18:57:19 Wade Of PE, especially the shadow of their tree stuff. 00:18:57:21 - 00:19:01:06 Wade there's this sense that every challenge is like a ten, and it. 00:19:01:06 - 00:19:02:28 Wade Probably isn't right. 00:19:03:01 - 00:19:04:09 Wade I mean, I haven't played much of. 00:19:04:09 - 00:19:04:26 Wade It at this. 00:19:04:26 - 00:19:06:23 Wade Point. 00:19:06:25 - 00:19:14:01 Wade but this is where that whole concept of get good comes in, you know? or what skills or resources. 00:19:14:01 - 00:19:15:20 Wade Have you not unlocked? 00:19:15:22 - 00:19:17:07 Wade There's a gameplay loop. 00:19:17:07 - 00:19:18:09 Wade That demands you. 00:19:18:09 - 00:19:20:00 Wade Rise to the. 00:19:20:00 - 00:19:23:11 Wade Occasion. Rise to the challenge. 00:19:23:14 - 00:19:25:07 Wade and so you level up or you. 00:19:25:09 - 00:19:31:08 Wade you know, work on your reaction time and all of those kind of things. I think this is a really interesting and helpful thing, but I. 00:19:31:08 - 00:19:38:09 Wade Do think that it's helpful to also think of a challenge as static and skills as the variable there. 00:19:38:12 - 00:20:03:02 Evan Yeah. well, I think, you know, you look at the opportunity and, you can't you you can't change the challenge in life of some things necessarily. Yeah. Now in games this is what's interesting. You can come down the difficulty. So for a lot of games a challenge becomes static right. Same activity. But you're just lowering the difficulty or you're breaking it down into bite size pieces and making it more approachable. 00:20:03:04 - 00:20:15:05 Evan right. So this is an interesting thing when we talk about games, they I'm going to sneeze. 00:20:15:07 - 00:20:29:09 Evan A start it this is an interesting thing. This is an interesting thing because when we talk about games, they steward you in your skill versus the challenge. They can present themselves to. 00:20:29:09 - 00:20:29:19 Wade Yeah. 00:20:29:24 - 00:20:57:22 Evan So really great games. typically to be more approachable. We'll try and give you a tutorial and then slowly ramp up what you do and what you experience so that you don't get overwhelmed. Older games did not do this as much, and there are some modern games that just throw you right into. But do you have some examples or things that come to mind when you think about games, who ramp that challenge and skill well together and kind of increase your competency as you go? 00:20:57:24 - 00:20:58:13 Wade I mean, I think. 00:20:58:13 - 00:21:05:24 Wade That the classic example is Mario Brothers, right? I mean, it's scales immediately. It's got a, 00:21:05:26 - 00:21:06:24 Wade An unspoken. 00:21:06:24 - 00:21:07:16 Wade Tutorial. 00:21:07:16 - 00:21:08:19 Wade Of jumping on the. 00:21:08:19 - 00:21:15:23 Wade The Goombas head or whatever. But the, the further you go. 00:21:15:23 - 00:21:18:08 Wade You're learning techniques. 00:21:18:08 - 00:21:18:25 Wade Along the way. 00:21:18:25 - 00:21:19:11 Wade That are going. 00:21:19:11 - 00:21:20:29 Wade To be necessary. 00:21:20:29 - 00:21:21:16 Wade In later. 00:21:21:16 - 00:21:22:13 Wade Levels. 00:21:22:16 - 00:21:28:01 Wade I think it's a masterclass in game design. 00:21:28:03 - 00:21:29:01 Wade but. 00:21:29:04 - 00:21:34:06 Wade You know, modern games do this as well. and I think. 00:21:34:08 - 00:21:35:16 Wade I think that they do iterate. 00:21:35:16 - 00:21:36:25 Wade On that same thing. I mean. 00:21:36:25 - 00:21:37:27 Wade It is true with that like. 00:21:37:27 - 00:21:39:24 Wade Elden Ring, have you played Elden Ring by. 00:21:39:24 - 00:21:43:02 Wade By chance? No, no. Okay. 00:21:43:02 - 00:21:49:23 Wade So Elden Ring starts you out. I mean, you can die in the tutorial easily, but, you can also. 00:21:49:23 - 00:21:50:05 Wade Skip the. 00:21:50:05 - 00:21:51:10 Wade Tutorial entirely. 00:21:51:10 - 00:21:52:21 Wade Because it looks like a hole that you would. 00:21:52:21 - 00:21:53:28 Wade Die in because of gravity. 00:21:53:28 - 00:21:54:09 Wade Which is. 00:21:54:09 - 00:21:55:18 Wade My greatest enemy in a. 00:21:55:18 - 00:21:56:25 Wade Game. Gravity? 00:21:56:27 - 00:21:58:09 Wade Any of my stream? Yeah. 00:21:58:09 - 00:21:59:08 Wade There's a running joke. 00:21:59:08 - 00:22:00:21 Wade That Isaac Newton is my final. 00:22:00:21 - 00:22:01:24 Wade Boss. 00:22:01:26 - 00:22:04:12 Wade That's true. Yeah, and it's true. 00:22:04:13 - 00:22:04:29 Wade Like, I've got. 00:22:04:29 - 00:22:07:08 Wade Words for him for creating gravity, you know? 00:22:07:13 - 00:22:09:16 Evan So let me know when you talk about. 00:22:09:19 - 00:22:11:06 Wade Well, some. 00:22:11:08 - 00:22:11:27 Wade There, there can. 00:22:11:27 - 00:22:13:10 Wade Be, I think one. 00:22:13:12 - 00:22:14:01 Evan Which is. 00:22:14:08 - 00:22:15:15 Evan Mr. Isaac Newton. 00:22:15:19 - 00:22:18:01 Wade I sure did. Me or Isaac Newton. 00:22:18:01 - 00:22:22:16 Evan I'm going to find you, Isaac Newton. There can only be what? 00:22:22:18 - 00:22:24:28 Wade So, but with. 00:22:24:28 - 00:22:26:15 Wade Elden Ring, I mean, you're fighting these. 00:22:26:23 - 00:22:27:06 Wade grunt. 00:22:27:06 - 00:22:30:29 Wade Skeleton, zombie looking guys, and then. Then you make your way. 00:22:30:29 - 00:22:31:09 Wade Up to these. 00:22:31:09 - 00:22:31:23 Wade Dragons. 00:22:31:23 - 00:22:34:17 Wade But if you can't kill the former. 00:22:34:19 - 00:22:35:00 Wade and know. 00:22:35:00 - 00:22:35:13 Wade All of the. 00:22:35:13 - 00:22:36:02 Wade Techniques. 00:22:36:02 - 00:22:36:05 Wade The. 00:22:36:05 - 00:22:36:28 Wade Dodging. 00:22:36:28 - 00:22:38:21 Wade The the. 00:22:38:23 - 00:22:42:04 Wade kind of staggering system and all that kind of stuff, you're really going to have a. 00:22:42:04 - 00:22:43:02 Wade Hard time. 00:22:43:05 - 00:22:44:03 Wade Some of these later things. 00:22:44:03 - 00:22:46:04 Wade What what game does it well for you? 00:22:46:07 - 00:23:10:27 Evan Well, I'm playing God of War Ragnarok. Like we talked about. I'm really enjoying it that that's the game that I'm just kind of focused on the mechanics right now. So, I'll speak to that. it does some interesting things. It ramps you up really well. It limits you having too many move sets to make you use the moves that you have, and then introduces more complicated mechanics as the game goes on. 00:23:10:29 - 00:23:31:11 Evan So it feels really fresh. yeah. Because you don't I get really overwhelmed by just like a giant move set. Like if we're playing fighting games and somebody pulls up the like, controls menu and you see all the different buttons and they're just displayed on a long list, I just look at that and I, I don't really know where to start. 00:23:31:11 - 00:23:34:27 Evan So it does a good job holding you back and kind of gaining. 00:23:34:27 - 00:23:35:12 Wade Yeah. 00:23:35:12 - 00:23:54:06 Evan From trying out too many skills because you learn to appreciate what you like and don't like kind of along the way. So it trickles those out. So that was good. And the other ways that it mitigates difficulty is if you enter into a zone and you die, but you didn't have full health, when you respawn, it'll give you health back. 00:23:54:13 - 00:24:12:11 Evan And so that's kind of a soft thing that I've noticed is that they'll say, well, maybe the let's just maybe the reason you died is because you went into this fight with 25% health. So sure, you respawn, we'll give you 100% health. And most of the time that's kind of enough to kind of see it through. 00:24:12:13 - 00:24:15:22 Wade You played the first one, regular God of War. 00:24:15:24 - 00:24:16:19 Wade I'm assuming, because. 00:24:16:19 - 00:24:20:16 Wade There's like a direct sequel. Right. But as far as difficulty. 00:24:20:16 - 00:24:21:02 Wade Is concerned, did. 00:24:21:02 - 00:24:25:26 Wade You feel like Ragnarok picks up at a higher level of. 00:24:25:26 - 00:24:26:27 Wade Difficulty than the first. 00:24:26:27 - 00:24:29:15 Wade One, or does it also tutorials. 00:24:29:15 - 00:24:30:14 Wade You in the same way that. 00:24:30:14 - 00:24:30:24 Wade The. 00:24:30:24 - 00:24:31:17 Wade First one did? 00:24:31:19 - 00:24:56:00 Evan I think it does a better job than the first one. I think it limits your abilities because you don't start with all your stuff at the end of the film. Yeah, you have all your stuff unlocked and everything like that. So you launch into the second game and you don't. You're kind of starting over. You do have some of the weapons and things like that in life right away, but it keeps you back and kind of starts you over. 00:24:56:00 - 00:25:05:23 Evan I think if you played the first one, you could understand the combat mechanics a little bit, but those are also improved in the second one that they've done. Like the timings are better, the performance. 00:25:05:23 - 00:25:06:14 Wade Yeah, because. 00:25:06:14 - 00:25:29:11 Evan You're looking at like a late gen four game that was really asking everything it could of the PS4 versus kind of a launch ish title on the show. So the performance in itself just makes everything a little more clear and easy to understand. But I think it's it kind of starts you over. I mean, it even has like a God of War one recap just in case you've played in a while or done it so I was pretty impressed with it. 00:25:29:14 - 00:25:31:21 Wade Good. Have you ever. 00:25:31:21 - 00:25:37:10 Wade Experienced, the Mario Maker custom levels? 00:25:37:12 - 00:25:43:06 Evan Yes, that is that one of those called I Kaiser. 00:25:43:07 - 00:25:47:01 Wade Kaiser I Kaiser is like Godzilla. There's a specific. 00:25:47:02 - 00:25:48:21 Evan It would be Godzilla. 00:25:48:23 - 00:25:50:15 Wade Okay. Kaiju. 00:25:50:17 - 00:25:54:15 Evan I think it is. I know what I do, I know, I. 00:25:54:15 - 00:25:58:26 Wade Know, but like I'm trying to think what the Mario levels are called. 00:25:58:28 - 00:26:00:03 Evan Like really difficult ones. 00:26:00:03 - 00:26:00:25 Evan I think it's called. 00:26:00:25 - 00:26:06:27 Wade Kaiju or kaiju. Let's let's Google this. 00:26:06:29 - 00:26:10:06 Evan Mario Maker level called. 00:26:10:08 - 00:26:11:27 Wade I think it's called Kaiser. That's my final. 00:26:11:27 - 00:26:15:02 Wade Answer. And I may. 00:26:15:02 - 00:26:16:12 Wade Be. 00:26:16:15 - 00:26:17:22 Wade Misspelling that. 00:26:17:24 - 00:26:20:26 Evan I can't find a name. 00:26:20:29 - 00:26:22:19 Wade Okay. Let me let me find your. 00:26:22:20 - 00:26:23:19 Evan Old research and I'll. 00:26:23:19 - 00:26:31:18 Wade Type. Okay. So but these levels are like brutally crushingly difficult. Yeah. Right. And yeah, it's a souls. 00:26:31:18 - 00:26:31:24 Wade Like. 00:26:31:24 - 00:26:33:18 Wade Mario. but. 00:26:33:23 - 00:26:35:16 Evan Let's explain that for those. 00:26:35:16 - 00:26:36:16 Wade Who know, does. 00:26:36:16 - 00:27:01:07 Evan This show is, for people who love games and also for people who love people who love games. Oh, sure. Make sure that we break down some of those things. So a souls like game refers to a specific style of game. Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, where you have, a high level of difficulty and some pretty raw mechanics, and it takes a lot of, I will just say, sadistic pleasure in the level of difficulty that you have. 00:27:01:07 - 00:27:18:18 Evan So to beat those games, you do have to have like an understanding and a high mechanical skill. That's not a perfect definition, but it's a good working definition so that you could be caught up. So souls like game means it's just, kind of a more, action oriented, punishing game. That's a now give a worse definition of the end. 00:27:18:18 - 00:27:19:24 Evan But there have. 00:27:19:26 - 00:27:23:17 Wade Hizo as specified by Wikipedia. 00:27:23:20 - 00:27:25:20 Wade Meaning modification, rebuild. 00:27:25:20 - 00:27:25:25 Wade Or. 00:27:25:25 - 00:27:27:07 Wade Reconfiguration is a. 00:27:27:07 - 00:27:27:29 Wade Philosophy. 00:27:27:29 - 00:27:28:27 Wade Of game design. 00:27:28:27 - 00:27:29:20 Wade Specifically. 00:27:29:20 - 00:27:30:24 Wade Platforming games. 00:27:30:29 - 00:27:33:03 Wade Distinguished by a high degree of. 00:27:33:03 - 00:27:34:13 Wade Strictness. 00:27:34:16 - 00:27:35:10 Wade Placed upon. 00:27:35:10 - 00:27:37:26 Wade The player's intended actions and movements. 00:27:37:28 - 00:27:47:23 Wade Through a level. This is also called hard ay eff right? Like this is just like the worst is the hardest freaking thing. 00:27:47:23 - 00:27:48:08 Wade It's like, you've got. 00:27:48:08 - 00:27:49:17 Wade To get on. 00:27:49:17 - 00:27:53:01 Wade The turtle's back and take the shell and kick it against a wall, and then bounce off. 00:27:53:01 - 00:27:53:14 Wade The shell. 00:27:53:14 - 00:27:53:24 Wade Again. 00:27:53:24 - 00:27:56:24 Wade To avoid spikes. I mean, it's madness. 00:27:56:26 - 00:28:01:04 Evan So how does difficulty impact your sense of accomplishment then as a player? 00:28:01:07 - 00:28:05:21 Wade So with that particular thing. 00:28:05:23 - 00:28:07:22 Wade I cannot beat those levels. 00:28:07:26 - 00:28:09:18 Wade Okay. Like I've beaten one. 00:28:09:18 - 00:28:10:19 Wade Level in my. 00:28:10:19 - 00:28:17:18 Wade Life. Okay. So level. I don't even remember which one it was because I blocked it from my memory, because I didn't really have that. 00:28:17:18 - 00:28:18:20 Wade Much of a fun time with. 00:28:18:20 - 00:28:20:14 Wade It. Like, I it really was. 00:28:20:14 - 00:28:21:15 Wade Frustrating for me. But I. 00:28:21:15 - 00:28:22:11 Wade Did beat it. 00:28:22:14 - 00:28:23:26 Wade And, 00:28:23:28 - 00:28:26:28 Wade It was like the the. 00:28:27:03 - 00:28:28:05 Wade Challenge. 00:28:28:08 - 00:28:28:22 Wade Far. 00:28:28:22 - 00:28:31:28 Wade Exceeded my skill. And I think that's the thing that was. 00:28:31:28 - 00:28:32:18 Wade Frustrating. 00:28:32:18 - 00:28:32:27 Wade To me. 00:28:32:27 - 00:28:34:18 Wade There was that. 00:28:34:20 - 00:28:35:28 Wade I jumped into this. 00:28:35:28 - 00:28:36:19 Wade Particular. 00:28:36:19 - 00:28:37:04 Wade One. 00:28:37:04 - 00:28:37:26 Wade Without. 00:28:37:26 - 00:28:39:01 Wade Having any kind of. 00:28:39:03 - 00:28:39:20 Wade Tutorial. 00:28:39:20 - 00:28:41:10 Wade Ization, so there was no way for my. 00:28:41:10 - 00:28:41:26 Wade Skills to. 00:28:41:26 - 00:28:43:01 Wade Improve. 00:28:43:03 - 00:28:45:03 Wade So maybe that's the key, right? 00:28:45:03 - 00:28:46:00 Wade A game is. 00:28:46:04 - 00:28:54:17 Wade Too hard if it doesn't provide the resources needed for your skills to improve. 00:28:54:20 - 00:28:54:29 Evan Yeah. 00:28:55:07 - 00:29:11:19 Evan And or if that's not the challenge you're seeking out, right. Some people like to be thrown in in like I think of anybody who plays the game. That's like a bullet hell game. A bullet hole. Yeah. Is a game that just throws a lot of things at you, and you have to fight and dodge around at the same time. 00:29:11:24 - 00:29:29:09 Evan So imagine you're on like a tennis court and there's like 20 players with tennis rackets and tennis balls on the other side. Yeah. And your job is to run around the tennis court and not get hit by a tennis ball. bullet hell, game is like 20 people just pelting you with tennis balls. The whole time. And so, yeah, it's hard to navigate. 00:29:29:09 - 00:29:48:01 Evan You're just dodging around. So some people like that, where they intentionally place themselves in that kind of vulnerable position because they like the challenge that it heightens them, too. But yeah, that's fair. I think we have to talk about different types of difficulty because we're typically referring to like mechanical difficulty, but difficulty manifests itself in some other ways. 00:29:48:01 - 00:30:08:20 Evan Mechanical skill is one way that we think about it with games kind of that fast twitch, like, you know, like 360, no scope, like all this things, right? That I, I can move the controller and my, my character on the screen will move and I react. My reaction time is good. The hand-eye coordination. But I think there's strategy difficulty. 00:30:08:20 - 00:30:34:06 Evan Right? There's creative difficulty in games that you have to be kind of more creative in the way that you solve problems. There's consistency as difficulty. So investment over time in your ability to develop that kind of in your character over time and discipline. That's a difficulty. There's social difficulty where you have to coordinate with other players. So if you have better organization or social skills and thinking specifically of like World of Warcraft guilds. 00:30:34:06 - 00:30:36:07 Wade Or Dawn trails. Yeah, right. 00:30:36:10 - 00:31:10:08 Evan where you have these different kinds of difficulties. And I think that's been an interesting thing that's happened in games. Is that different can be perceived in some other ways. So when we look at difficulty for this example and for us as once you're explaining the topic, I think make sure that we're recognizing what kind of difficulty we like to experience, because there's a chance that if you're stressed or bored and the game isn't doing anything about it, you might need to try and find some other games or think about games in a different way, in the way that you want to explore that difficulty and that challenge. 00:31:10:10 - 00:31:11:06 Wade Yeah, I. 00:31:11:06 - 00:31:11:23 Wade Think that that's. 00:31:11:23 - 00:31:13:16 Wade Exactly right. for example. 00:31:13:16 - 00:31:14:14 Wade Right now I'm playing lots. 00:31:14:14 - 00:31:19:01 Wade Of to prepare myself for shadow of their tree. So which is, 00:31:19:03 - 00:31:19:14 Wade Elden. 00:31:19:14 - 00:31:20:01 Evan Ring expansion. 00:31:20:02 - 00:31:21:07 Wade Elden Ring. 00:31:21:10 - 00:31:26:03 Wade DLC. Yeah. and so I knew that. 00:31:26:05 - 00:31:28:21 Wade Elden Ring was coming out with this DLC, and that's. 00:31:28:21 - 00:31:29:24 Wade Why I chose lies of. 00:31:29:24 - 00:31:31:08 Wade P to kind of get myself back into. 00:31:31:08 - 00:31:31:23 Wade It. I probably would. 00:31:31:23 - 00:31:32:19 Wade Have done better. 00:31:32:22 - 00:31:33:12 Wade To have just played. 00:31:33:12 - 00:31:37:25 Wade Elden Ring again, but I am liking lies up until last night. 00:31:37:27 - 00:31:40:12 Wade I still like it. I'm just motivated. 00:31:40:15 - 00:32:09:20 Evan So what do you do when you encounter this in real life? Because I think this is where, you know, the games as a practice for real life and really grow in life. The games when you experience something stressful in games or when you experience boredom because you're not being challenged and and you see that in your life, like you experience stress or anxiety, how can this give us a framework to really try and provide some language to understand what's going on in our lives, and really let other people into it as well, after we have that self-awareness? 00:32:09:20 - 00:32:17:02 Evan Because I think this could be really valuable personally and professionally too, because it gives some language to be able to practice that as we kind of go into our lives. 00:32:17:04 - 00:32:18:03 Wade You want to have something like. 00:32:18:03 - 00:32:19:07 Wade Really like. 00:32:19:11 - 00:32:21:01 Wade Personal and intense. 00:32:21:03 - 00:32:23:08 Wade at, 00:32:23:10 - 00:32:26:15 Wade I have found not just from my life, but from everybody. 00:32:26:15 - 00:32:27:09 Wade I talked to that. 00:32:27:09 - 00:32:27:20 Wade Around. 00:32:27:21 - 00:32:29:10 Wade Age 35. 00:32:29:14 - 00:32:31:11 Wade Something happens. 00:32:31:14 - 00:32:32:13 Wade to all of us that. 00:32:32:13 - 00:32:35:14 Wade Have kind of gone through, the traditional means. 00:32:35:14 - 00:32:36:21 Wade Of. 00:32:36:23 - 00:32:37:17 Wade school. 00:32:37:17 - 00:32:44:11 Wade Job, work, live life, all, all that kind of stuff. But about 35, you get into a. 00:32:44:11 - 00:32:46:03 Wade Routine, some might even say. 00:32:46:03 - 00:32:48:20 Wade A rut. And it's like, is this all there is? 00:32:48:24 - 00:32:49:19 Wade I can do. 00:32:49:19 - 00:32:52:17 Wade This stuff with my eyes shut. 00:32:52:19 - 00:32:52:29 Wade especially. 00:32:52:29 - 00:32:53:10 Wade If you don't have. 00:32:53:10 - 00:32:54:09 Wade Kids or anything like. 00:32:54:09 - 00:32:56:18 Wade That, which I think is a whole other. 00:32:56:21 - 00:32:58:29 Wade component of difficulty and challenge. 00:32:59:01 - 00:32:59:19 Wade Perhaps. 00:32:59:23 - 00:33:02:00 Wade But when it comes to your job and your. 00:33:02:00 - 00:33:03:28 Wade Work, this is where you get the. 00:33:03:28 - 00:33:04:08 Wade Pre. 00:33:04:08 - 00:33:06:05 Wade Midlife crisis. 00:33:06:07 - 00:33:06:15 Wade some. 00:33:06:15 - 00:33:08:00 Wade Would say it's the midlife crisis. 00:33:08:02 - 00:33:08:25 Wade I think that. 00:33:09:02 - 00:33:09:24 Wade We've had to. 00:33:09:24 - 00:33:13:15 Wade Expend a extended a little bit beyond this. but at. 00:33:13:15 - 00:33:14:03 Wade 35. 00:33:14:03 - 00:33:15:04 Wade You begin to say. 00:33:15:04 - 00:33:17:13 Wade Is this it? And you start to get restless. So you're. 00:33:17:13 - 00:33:18:01 Wade Looking at new. 00:33:18:01 - 00:33:18:13 Wade Job. 00:33:18:13 - 00:33:23:13 Wade Opportunities and this, I mean, I've done this, right. I'm like, what else can I do? 00:33:23:15 - 00:33:26:01 Wade In some ways, that's how I, started. 00:33:26:01 - 00:33:31:20 Wade Working as an instructor at Bama, you know? Yeah, because I was looking for new challenges. 00:33:31:20 - 00:33:32:21 Wade Because what I was currently. 00:33:32:21 - 00:33:33:04 Wade Doing. 00:33:33:08 - 00:33:33:14 Wade Yeah. 00:33:33:19 - 00:33:36:06 Wade Wasn't feeding the challenge. It doesn't mean that. 00:33:36:06 - 00:33:37:12 Wade I was, like, the best. 00:33:37:12 - 00:33:37:18 Wade In the. 00:33:37:18 - 00:33:38:19 Wade World at what I. 00:33:38:19 - 00:33:40:25 Wade Was doing. It just means that. 00:33:40:27 - 00:33:41:12 Wade The. 00:33:41:12 - 00:33:44:05 Wade Opportunity was no longer giving. 00:33:44:07 - 00:33:44:13 Wade The. 00:33:44:13 - 00:33:47:09 Wade Challenge that demanded such attention. 00:33:47:12 - 00:33:51:23 Evan How did you recognize that? 00:33:51:25 - 00:33:52:11 Wade probably not the. 00:33:52:11 - 00:33:55:23 Wade Most healthy of ways. because I was like. 00:33:55:27 - 00:34:02:27 Evan Yeah, awareness if I can. Sorry. I think the awareness of these things typically isn't going to always come upon a healthy discovery. 00:34:03:04 - 00:34:04:05 Wade You know, we talked. 00:34:04:05 - 00:34:22:27 Evan About the intensity provides a window at the beginning of this term where we see the intensity of something can provide a window into what's going on behind the scenes. And so a lot of the time, I think we have to be kind to ourselves a little bit, that sometimes we won't know that we're not regulating until we have intense experience. 00:34:22:27 - 00:34:24:01 Evan Sorry. Continue. 00:34:24:03 - 00:34:25:04 Wade No, it's a it's a great. 00:34:25:04 - 00:34:26:13 Wade Point and I think to be. 00:34:26:13 - 00:34:27:21 Wade Specific about it. 00:34:27:23 - 00:34:28:03 Wade I felt. 00:34:28:03 - 00:34:29:05 Wade Restless. 00:34:29:07 - 00:34:30:02 Wade I wasn't in my. 00:34:30:02 - 00:34:31:17 Wade Flow like your chart says. 00:34:31:17 - 00:34:32:29 Wade I wasn't in my. 00:34:32:29 - 00:34:36:28 Wade Flow and therefore I was bored. 00:34:37:00 - 00:34:38:21 Wade And it it manifested. 00:34:38:21 - 00:34:38:29 Wade As a. 00:34:38:29 - 00:34:42:18 Wade Restlessness that made me short tempered with. 00:34:42:18 - 00:34:44:08 Wade Others. 00:34:44:10 - 00:34:44:18 Wade in a. 00:34:44:18 - 00:34:46:18 Wade Way of like you, you. 00:34:46:18 - 00:34:49:05 Wade Dummy. Like, I can do this mostly, like, come on. 00:34:49:05 - 00:34:49:18 Wade Like you're. 00:34:49:18 - 00:34:50:21 Wade Asking questions that. 00:34:50:21 - 00:34:52:01 Wade Like, we. 00:34:52:03 - 00:34:53:27 Wade It's a shortness. It's a curtain. 00:34:53:28 - 00:34:55:27 Wade So I had to, like, gut check myself on it. 00:34:55:27 - 00:34:56:14 Wade And it's like, okay. 00:34:56:14 - 00:34:57:15 Wade What's really going. 00:34:57:15 - 00:34:59:04 Wade On here? And I. 00:34:59:04 - 00:35:01:00 Wade Realized I was bored. 00:35:01:02 - 00:35:05:28 Wade and I was resenting my station in life, as. 00:35:05:28 - 00:35:07:08 Wade A result of that. 00:35:08:10 - 00:35:08:25 Wade So that I. 00:35:08:25 - 00:35:10:08 Wade Couldn't be content. I couldn't. 00:35:10:09 - 00:35:11:25 Wade Yeah, but I felt like I was. 00:35:11:25 - 00:35:15:19 Wade Resigning to something. and so I had. 00:35:15:19 - 00:35:19:11 Wade To re rethink all of that for myself. 00:35:19:14 - 00:35:19:20 Wade but. 00:35:19:20 - 00:35:20:22 Wade That was a big red. 00:35:20:22 - 00:35:22:17 Wade Flag for me. Like, hey, this is not what. 00:35:22:18 - 00:35:25:27 Wade We talked about. Recovering our lost selves. I was. 00:35:25:27 - 00:35:28:12 Wade Losing myself. 00:35:28:15 - 00:35:33:14 Wade and so to wake up to that, it's like, okay, how can I recover? 00:35:33:17 - 00:35:40:02 Wade if my station and as far as my job or my, my point in life or whatever can't change, what can I supplement that. 00:35:40:02 - 00:35:41:16 Wade With to allow. 00:35:41:16 - 00:35:48:01 Wade The interest, the challenge, the intrigue that I'm currently missing. And that's that's what I did. and that's why. 00:35:48:01 - 00:35:48:29 Wade We're here, I think. 00:35:49:01 - 00:36:15:00 Evan Yeah, I think it is. So, so you recognized that through some adverse reactions to things that you felt like maybe you weren't within your true self, that you really needed to have some different challenge to pull your skill up to understand what that is. As we kind of start to wrap up this segment, to make it practical for folks, you're a big deal when it comes. 00:36:15:00 - 00:36:28:09 Evan I am the victim and everything. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how understanding skill and challenge incorporate with the ways that you kind of set goals, how it helps you memorialize and keep track. 00:36:28:10 - 00:36:28:16 Wade For. 00:36:28:17 - 00:36:32:10 Evan Progress. and just kind of give us like a practical challenge as we close out. 00:36:32:11 - 00:36:34:03 Wade Oh, this is this is huge, right? 00:36:34:03 - 00:36:34:18 Wade I mean. 00:36:34:18 - 00:36:35:29 Wade I operate off of. 00:36:35:29 - 00:36:38:05 Wade Experience points and leveling up. 00:36:38:07 - 00:36:39:06 Wade And so life. 00:36:39:06 - 00:36:39:26 Wade Doesn't give. 00:36:39:26 - 00:36:40:04 Wade Us. 00:36:40:04 - 00:36:45:10 Wade Experience points and level up markers. So you create your own for yourself. for me personally. 00:36:45:10 - 00:36:50:23 Wade I use a, a journal called the Full Focus Planner. it's great. 00:36:50:25 - 00:36:51:04 Wade but. 00:36:51:04 - 00:36:52:14 Wade It gives you. 00:36:52:17 - 00:36:53:06 Wade 90 day. 00:36:53:06 - 00:36:57:10 Wade Goals. It gives you, like, weekly goals, or it helps you set. 00:36:57:10 - 00:36:58:06 Wade 90 day goals. 00:36:58:06 - 00:37:04:21 Wade Weekly goals, and then three daily tasks to accomplish. You set those yourself. 00:37:04:21 - 00:37:05:05 Wade And so for. 00:37:05:05 - 00:37:08:14 Wade Me, it's like, did I accomplish these three tasks? How far. 00:37:08:14 - 00:37:09:16 Wade Did I get on my weekly. 00:37:09:16 - 00:37:10:00 Wade Task. 00:37:10:00 - 00:37:12:15 Wade How far I am on my monthly and my my 90 day. 00:37:12:15 - 00:37:18:07 Wade Tasks or goals? And that to me fuels just enough. 00:37:18:10 - 00:37:24:02 Wade of a challenge, that keeps me from getting bored. And also keeps me focused on on point. 00:37:24:10 - 00:37:29:10 Wade Because no matter how restless or bored I may be, I still have goals for my life. I still have. 00:37:29:13 - 00:37:34:04 Wade overarching dreams that I want to accomplish. But if I'm just sitting and. 00:37:34:07 - 00:37:35:17 Wade I use this phrase frequently, if I. 00:37:35:17 - 00:37:36:01 Wade Sit in the. 00:37:36:01 - 00:37:36:20 Wade Sun, if. 00:37:36:20 - 00:37:37:18 Wade I sit in the, the. 00:37:37:18 - 00:37:38:18 Wade Bad. 00:37:38:21 - 00:37:41:14 Wade of of where I am, the restlessness that I'm never going to move. 00:37:41:14 - 00:37:41:28 Wade Forward. 00:37:41:28 - 00:37:42:17 Wade So what can I. 00:37:42:17 - 00:37:43:04 Wade Do just. 00:37:43:04 - 00:37:45:14 Wade Today, not worrying about next week or beyond? What can I do. 00:37:45:14 - 00:37:46:14 Wade Today. 00:37:46:17 - 00:37:47:11 Wade That's going to cater. 00:37:47:11 - 00:37:47:28 Wade Toward. 00:37:47:28 - 00:37:48:07 Wade My. 00:37:48:07 - 00:37:50:19 Wade Future? I love that. 00:37:50:22 - 00:38:11:17 Evan Let's take it down to its very basics. For someone who has a hard time setting goals in this season of their life, let's take that 90 day planner and put it into one page. One thing. How would you encourage somebody to get started with the goal setting? Like how would you set that goal? And then two, how would you celebrate and the importance of celebrating when you've accomplished it? 00:38:11:19 - 00:38:12:24 Wade It's important to remember. 00:38:12:24 - 00:38:13:21 Wade That your. 00:38:13:21 - 00:38:20:12 Wade Destination is planned by your intention. but even more than your intention. 00:38:20:14 - 00:38:20:23 Wade It is. 00:38:20:23 - 00:38:21:25 Wade Determined. 00:38:21:25 - 00:38:23:04 Wade By your direction. 00:38:23:04 - 00:38:23:27 Wade And if you're not. 00:38:23:27 - 00:38:25:04 Wade Daily directing. 00:38:25:04 - 00:38:25:17 Wade Yourself. 00:38:25:17 - 00:38:25:26 Wade Toward. 00:38:25:26 - 00:38:29:08 Wade Your destination, or at least weekly or monthly or. 00:38:29:08 - 00:38:31:10 Wade Whatever, if you don't have a concept of where that. 00:38:31:10 - 00:38:34:26 Wade Destination is, you're never going to get there. Somebody wise once told me. 00:38:34:28 - 00:38:36:16 Wade Unless you see it before you see. 00:38:36:16 - 00:38:37:16 Wade It, you're never going to see it. 00:38:37:22 - 00:38:38:14 Wade And so you've got to. 00:38:38:14 - 00:38:41:18 Wade Have a vision of your destination where you want to go. 00:38:41:21 - 00:38:46:19 Wade So what that means is permit where it is. 00:38:46:21 - 00:38:49:27 Wade You want to be, where you want to go, and then try. 00:38:49:27 - 00:38:50:13 Wade To set. 00:38:50:13 - 00:38:52:00 Wade Some challenges, some goals. 00:38:52:00 - 00:38:52:08 Wade For. 00:38:52:08 - 00:38:53:21 Wade Yourself. Now here's the important thing. 00:38:53:21 - 00:38:57:11 Wade I love the second part of your question. once you. 00:38:57:11 - 00:39:01:25 Wade Find these tangible sort of things, apply to seven jobs. 00:39:01:25 - 00:39:03:13 Wade This week or. 00:39:03:15 - 00:39:05:17 Wade apply for grants if you're in research. 00:39:05:17 - 00:39:07:15 Wade Or whatever it is, work out five. 00:39:07:15 - 00:39:11:00 Wade Out of seven days, go on a 30 minute walk. 00:39:11:03 - 00:39:12:05 Wade Celebrate that. 00:39:12:08 - 00:39:14:09 Wade Now, if it's an exercise goal, I wouldn't say. 00:39:14:09 - 00:39:15:22 Wade You know, go to an all you can eat. 00:39:15:22 - 00:39:16:07 Wade Ice cream. 00:39:16:07 - 00:39:20:06 Wade Buffet or something that's counterproductive to to that. 00:39:20:06 - 00:39:22:07 Evan But celebrate it. 00:39:22:09 - 00:39:23:10 Wade so for example, I've got a. 00:39:23:10 - 00:39:24:22 Wade Goal right now that is writing a. 00:39:24:22 - 00:39:25:09 Wade Chapter of a. 00:39:25:09 - 00:39:29:12 Wade Book, and I know that I'm going to go out to a nice dinner, in an area. 00:39:29:12 - 00:39:30:23 Wade City when. 00:39:30:23 - 00:39:33:16 Wade I finish that with some friends, to. 00:39:33:16 - 00:39:33:29 Wade Celebrate. 00:39:33:29 - 00:39:34:29 Wade That. And I'm not going to. 00:39:34:29 - 00:39:36:29 Wade Let myself do that before. 00:39:36:29 - 00:39:37:12 Wade I finish. 00:39:37:12 - 00:39:40:11 Wade That chapter of this book. 00:39:40:14 - 00:40:05:18 Evan Perfect. That's great. Well, thanks for sharing that. as we kind of wrap up, I want to say thanks for listening to this segment. don't forget here that you do. You need to take a break. And when you hear that voice, you have some tools and skill sets that you could do to understand why you're feeling and experiencing the things that you're experiencing as to know when you aren't having fun anymore, and understanding the way that you like to be challenged. 00:40:05:21 - 00:40:07:10 Evan See you next segment. 00:40:07:10 - 00:40:20:11 Evan Ladies and gentlemen, it is that time in the episode where we take a break and get to know each other a little bit better. That would be our mini game. Stretch break. Wait, let's hit the music. Two. Three. Four. 00:40:20:13 - 00:40:23:01 Wade Bump bump bump bump bump bump bump. 00:40:23:03 - 00:40:24:26 Evan I caught up at the end there. 00:40:24:28 - 00:40:25:19 Wade You sure did. 00:40:25:20 - 00:40:28:08 Evan I. You know. 00:40:28:10 - 00:40:29:25 Wade I feel like we're nailing it more and. 00:40:29:25 - 00:40:49:27 Evan More as a musician. Knowing when to come back in is, you know, just as important. It's good, skillful playing. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is our mini game stretch break, where we take a break and stretch. And you should too. So wherever you're listening or watching this, just be. Be good to your body. Take a second stretch. Do a couple next stretches. 00:40:49:27 - 00:40:50:26 Evan Do a little shoulder. 00:40:50:26 - 00:40:53:22 Wade Roll like we did because I got a little thing on my shoulder today. 00:40:53:23 - 00:41:00:22 Evan Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're gonna work it out. I tell you what I this is Apple fitness notifications from you, and you're just a fiend. You just start. 00:41:00:22 - 00:41:02:11 Wade Over games before games. 00:41:02:11 - 00:41:04:12 Evan I know. Hey, that's not the segment. That's segments at the end. 00:41:04:12 - 00:41:08:25 Wade No, it's not, it's not. You get to rest before games sometimes if you've ever worked so. 00:41:08:28 - 00:41:20:22 Evan Do an our mini game stretch break. That means we will consult our wonderful. As you can see on the screen. Bingo! Wheel of vulnerability. Did bingo. We lose vulnerable. 00:41:20:24 - 00:41:22:15 Wade Betty. 00:41:22:17 - 00:41:31:07 Evan Very good. so, there's numbers one through 50 in here. Wade has some geek therapy cards. Introduce the cards for everybody and give a shout out. 00:41:31:09 - 00:41:41:11 Wade Geek therapy, geek therapeutics card deck. These are questions and practices to improve thoughts, build insight. Take action in your life and to de-stress. 00:41:41:11 - 00:41:55:08 Evan Shout out there in the show notes. Check it out. Okay, so I'm going to spin this bingo wheel one through 50. Wade and I are each going to guess a number and listener viewer. We would encourage you to try and guess the number one through 50 and see if you get it right. And if you get it right, tell us in the comments. 00:41:55:08 - 00:42:01:13 Evan Don't lie. All right. Ready? 00:42:01:15 - 00:42:05:23 Evan Tell me when to stop. And we got to guess our numbers. 00:42:05:25 - 00:42:10:10 Wade Yeah. 50. Oh, wow. The number of times I died and lives of pee last night. 00:42:10:10 - 00:42:21:10 Evan Oh, dear. That was tough. Okay, I'm going to guess 1770. All right, here it is. It is 3838. 00:42:21:11 - 00:42:21:28 Wade Got it. 00:42:21:28 - 00:42:37:07 Evan So, listener, if you guessed 38, you win. So shout out 38 cards. And we learned a lesson in our last episode. We did where we interviewed where if we have a multiple question geek therapy card, we're just going to pick 1 or 2 of them and not answer a five parter. 00:42:37:09 - 00:42:40:24 Wade Well, you're in luck. This one only has one question. 00:42:40:24 - 00:42:42:16 Evan Okay, great. Hit us with. 00:42:42:18 - 00:42:56:14 Wade This. the topic is movies and TV. Advanced space pioneers are usually forbidden from interfering with the problems of other civilizations due to the threat of changing the natural law and outcome of the species. 00:42:56:16 - 00:42:57:16 Evan Keep going. 00:42:57:18 - 00:43:13:17 Wade Name three times when it is better not to get involved with others. And how could that interference possibly make the problem worse? Okay, three times when it is better not to get involved with others, okay? 00:43:13:19 - 00:43:18:14 Evan Three times it's better not to get involved with others, with others, okay? 00:43:18:15 - 00:43:23:24 Wade Because it could potentially make the problem worse. Interference was. 00:43:23:27 - 00:43:29:04 Evan Well, drowning. 00:43:29:06 - 00:43:30:24 Wade you wouldn't say it's someone drowning. 00:43:30:28 - 00:43:36:17 Evan Well, you're not supposed to get close. You're supposed to help in different ways. So, 00:43:36:19 - 00:43:38:00 Wade Drowning. 00:43:38:03 - 00:43:55:23 Evan You're supposed to throw something or keep because they'll latch on to you. and I experienced that, actually, with you when we were at Alabama and we had a student who didn't know how to swim, but didn't say that they didn't know how to swim. they were wearing a life jacket, and they launched off the blob, and they kind of. 00:43:55:23 - 00:44:11:06 Evan They weren't sinking. They were fine. But I was wearing a life jacket. They were wearing a life jacket, and I swam to them. And I was like, hey, you're good. Like, let's get you over here. And they grabbed on to me and I, I swear to you, if we weren't both wearing life jackets, they would have drowning. 00:44:11:09 - 00:44:12:22 Wade That is harrowing. 00:44:12:27 - 00:44:21:12 Evan Whispers. You're supposed to keep them, you know, supposed to keep them at like them. For those of you who are listening and putting my arms out. So yeah, check. Like I'm training. But that's not an hour. But that was just the first one. You know, my. 00:44:21:12 - 00:44:27:09 Wade Dad always told me that you're supposed to hit them hard enough to knock them out and then drag them to shore. 00:44:27:11 - 00:44:30:01 Evan Yeah, I mean, if you're that strong, I don't know. I mean. 00:44:30:01 - 00:44:36:21 Wade I don't know. That's why. That's why we work out so we can incapacitate somebody. The. 00:44:36:24 - 00:44:47:26 Evan Can you imagine you're just at the gym working out, and then somebody is like, oh yeah, what are your goals? And I'm like, one shot. I need to be able to knock out a drowning person with one punch. 00:44:47:29 - 00:44:48:14 Wade Don't call me a. 00:44:48:14 - 00:44:55:07 Evan Hero, okay? Best not best not to get involved. 00:44:55:09 - 00:45:14:00 Wade I have found when your friends plural or in a relate, romantic relationship and they're in a they're in a spat, like a fight or something like that. Just don't get involved. You can listen. Maybe they just don't. 00:45:14:02 - 00:45:31:12 Evan Yeah, that's that's very true. I would say don't get involved in random tech support, especially over the phone. Like if you're if somebody needs help, like a family member called and they're like, hey, I can't figure this out on my phone. Like. 00:45:31:14 - 00:45:36:10 Wade That's pretty good. That's yeah, you're going to get dragged into it. But yeah. Also. 00:45:36:12 - 00:46:02:05 Evan here's a funny story. This is a good one. I would say don't get involved if you don't have the competence to actually help the problem. Like don't get involved just because you want to be helpful. I was at an electronics store with a friend picking up something for, a work project, and there was a great story, and there was a person who was looking at these racing wheels. 00:46:02:07 - 00:46:23:16 Evan and they're like sim rig racing wheels. And they were speaking Portuguese to this, electronic store employee, and they were just they didn't really understand them or whatever. And I just like to be helpful. But I'm also an idiot, right. Like, I just don't I don't think I'm very stupid. And so I only know one phrase in Portuguese. 00:46:23:16 - 00:46:30:02 Evan And it's because my roommate in college took Portuguese. So the only thing I know how to say is, do you speak Portuguese? 00:46:30:05 - 00:46:31:12 Wade Oh no. 00:46:31:14 - 00:46:51:26 Evan And so I am just like, I want to be helpful. And so I walk up and I say, this is Nick, who designed our graphics, one of his favorite stories. He was the one who was with me. And so I just say, I go for the Portuguese. Do you speak Portuguese? She then turns to me, thinking that she's been rescued by someone who's going to be able to actually help translate what's happening. 00:46:52:02 - 00:46:52:25 Wade And then she. 00:46:52:25 - 00:47:18:05 Evan Just goes off in Portuguese and I just look at her and I let her finish and I go, oh, I don't speak Portuguese. And Nick, it's like ducks around the aisle. So I would say, you know, don't just jump in to be helpful, just to be helpful. make sure that you have the actual competence to be able to assist with the problem and not just, wanting to feel helpful. 00:47:18:08 - 00:47:19:13 Evan Do you think that counts? 00:47:19:15 - 00:47:27:00 Wade I think that very much counts. That very much counts. I guess for a third one. 00:47:27:00 - 00:47:28:27 Evan Yeah, for third one together. 00:47:29:00 - 00:47:33:18 Wade The third one. you're not really on social media too much. 00:47:33:20 - 00:47:34:17 Evan to be. 00:47:34:19 - 00:47:49:17 Wade Yeah, it's probably better for you, but I found it to be incredibly unhelpful when on my for You page or suggested posts or whatever, there is some sort of crisis or dilemma that's being debated. And, I chime in. 00:47:49:20 - 00:47:51:23 Evan Oh, you don't need to third party the comments. 00:47:51:26 - 00:48:08:23 Wade I don't need the third party. The comments. Like that's something that's I'm potentially making it worse. And, yeah, just don't do it. Some things is just like, that's not that's not my problem. And I'm going to keep going. 00:48:08:25 - 00:48:27:08 Evan Okay. So there you go listener. So there's a question that you can ask people, in your life, that you can connect with what is something that you just shouldn't get involved in? What's a bad idea of and things to get involved in? There's a little get to know your question around the lunch, dinner table, whatever table you find yourself in, you're only allowed to have conversations at tables. 00:48:27:08 - 00:48:27:17 Evan Apparently. 00:48:27:17 - 00:48:33:29 Wade You know what the problem is with the Twitter conversations. You can't knock them out and drag them to shore. 00:48:33:29 - 00:48:37:10 Evan That's so true. That's so true. You can't that that would. 00:48:37:10 - 00:48:45:00 Wade Solve so many problems. If I could just, like, choke, hold somebody and then drag their unconscious unconscious body to safety, let's. 00:48:45:03 - 00:48:54:04 Evan Do Ellen's job for him. How much would you pay for that on Twitter if you knew that you could like, super like something and someone would come and physically restrain the person who was. 00:48:54:04 - 00:49:02:18 Wade It would make Twitter Blue Premium worth it? I would say, I think that's $16 a month. I'd pay that. 00:49:02:20 - 00:49:06:16 Evan Twitter blue, including private security. 00:49:06:18 - 00:49:11:23 Wade No, no, no, just the ability to reach through the device and knock someone out. 00:49:11:25 - 00:49:12:17 Evan Okay, so for the. 00:49:12:17 - 00:49:22:08 Wade Purpose of like, but it's for the purpose of saving them. I don't want to injure them, but I like I'm dragging them out like a drowning victim because they're drowning in the comments. 00:49:22:08 - 00:49:28:11 Evan I think you have to stop. You have to stop what you're doing is so much that I'm going to pay. You have to be able to rescue you through the screen like. 00:49:28:11 - 00:49:33:29 Wade It's really, it's a benevolence sort of feature. 00:49:34:02 - 00:49:41:27 Evan Well, now you know a little bit more about Wade and I from our mini game Stretch Break. Enjoy getting to know each other. Wade. Thanks. Under the next segment. 00:49:42:23 - 00:49:58:16 Evan All right. Wait. Time to get into our next segment. We know that the things that we do for fun and our hobbies improve our mood and make us feel better. Right. I mean, you know, you said, oh, I just need a break. I need to go have some fun. I need to play some games. I need to blow off some steam. 00:49:58:18 - 00:50:07:20 Evan But do you ever wonder why that is exactly? Or are you just satisfied with the results of your recreation? 00:50:07:22 - 00:50:10:07 Wade You know, I I'm three days. 00:50:10:07 - 00:50:15:20 Wade Away from going on my summer vacation right now, and this is kind of been on my my mind. 00:50:15:22 - 00:50:18:12 Wade when I was younger, I guess I was just like, let me. 00:50:18:12 - 00:50:19:05 Wade Do things. 00:50:19:12 - 00:50:20:23 Wade That alleviate. 00:50:20:23 - 00:50:22:25 Wade My, my mindset and all that kind of stuff. 00:50:22:25 - 00:50:23:17 Wade But if you've ever. 00:50:23:17 - 00:50:26:27 Wade Gone on vacation and you felt more. 00:50:27:00 - 00:50:27:21 Wade Overwhelmed. 00:50:27:21 - 00:50:28:14 Wade By the end of. 00:50:28:14 - 00:50:29:09 Wade It. 00:50:29:11 - 00:50:34:11 Wade And you're like, what happened? I was supposed to be rejuvenated, re-energized, all that kind of stuff. 00:50:34:15 - 00:50:35:02 Wade You start to. 00:50:35:02 - 00:50:38:01 Wade Think about, okay, how can I structure my vacation time a. 00:50:38:01 - 00:50:42:22 Wade Little bit better moving forward? So yeah, I do think about this. 00:50:42:24 - 00:50:43:09 Wade all that go. 00:50:43:09 - 00:50:49:21 Evan On vacation and then come back unsatisfied. That sounds like it's a regular occurrence for you. 00:50:49:24 - 00:51:00:17 Wade You know, sometimes I like vacations to be a little bit more active. Yeah. like, I like to go hiking or biking or whatever it is. 00:51:00:20 - 00:51:02:13 Wade climbing, experiencing something new. 00:51:02:18 - 00:51:03:01 Wade But I. 00:51:03:01 - 00:51:06:09 Wade Tend to go on vacation occasionally with, members of my. 00:51:06:09 - 00:51:09:03 Wade Family who would rather. 00:51:09:05 - 00:51:10:03 Wade not. 00:51:10:06 - 00:51:10:21 Wade Do those. 00:51:10:21 - 00:51:11:05 Wade Things. 00:51:11:05 - 00:51:19:08 Wade And so, like, if you're just sitting on a beach, listen. That's awesome. Yeah, for like a day or two. But I need a little bit of adventure. 00:51:19:08 - 00:51:21:21 Wade And like, everybody around me and my family members, they're. 00:51:21:21 - 00:51:22:18 Wade Like, I feel so. 00:51:22:18 - 00:51:25:06 Wade Refreshed and relaxed and I'm like, I am antsy. 00:51:25:13 - 00:51:28:02 Wade I got to get out of the house. I got to like, go do something. 00:51:28:02 - 00:51:29:22 Wade And so that's what I'm talking about. 00:51:29:22 - 00:51:30:26 Wade It just wasn't. 00:51:31:01 - 00:51:33:06 Wade That same level of rejuvenation. I think. 00:51:33:06 - 00:51:34:00 Wade That's. 00:51:34:02 - 00:51:35:20 Wade You know, paying attention to how we're. 00:51:35:20 - 00:51:37:19 Wade Hard wired differently. 00:51:37:21 - 00:51:39:03 Wade from from each other in some ways. 00:51:39:03 - 00:51:44:14 Evan So, yeah, you definitely have your more active folks. You have your I'll call them loungers. 00:51:44:16 - 00:51:47:07 Wade Loungers. What a nice yeah thing to say. 00:51:47:07 - 00:52:11:07 Evan Yeah. And then, you know, everybody has a balance in between. So if we're talking about vacation and the importance of feeling refreshed and regulating our mood, how do you think that pertains to video games and how can we think about video games as a little mini vacations to kind of help us do that? Well. 00:52:11:09 - 00:52:12:18 Wade Yeah. So. 00:52:12:21 - 00:52:15:20 Wade You know, it's July. It's going to be, you know, hot. 00:52:15:20 - 00:52:16:05 Wade Weather for a. 00:52:16:05 - 00:52:21:05 Wade Lot of North America, all that kind of stuff. We're thinking about getting away. We're thinking about relaxing. 00:52:21:07 - 00:52:26:18 Wade Our traditional fall to spring schedule is interrupted. 00:52:26:20 - 00:52:29:11 Wade to a degree, things are just a little bit slower in the summer. And so. 00:52:29:11 - 00:52:29:24 Wade We're all. 00:52:29:24 - 00:52:31:08 Wade Thinking about these kind of things. 00:52:31:08 - 00:52:36:14 Wade But the reality is, is that not all of us are going to be able to go across the world to. 00:52:36:14 - 00:52:44:01 Wade To some exotic destination. Now, we might be able to have some time off work and all that kind of stuff. The reason this is pertinent for. 00:52:44:01 - 00:52:46:18 Wade This show is because. 00:52:46:18 - 00:52:47:16 Wade Gaming. 00:52:47:17 - 00:52:49:00 Wade Like a lot of hobbies. 00:52:49:00 - 00:52:54:16 Wade Gaming can offer a window into a vacation that we might not ordinarily. 00:52:54:16 - 00:52:55:21 Wade Afford. And we've. 00:52:55:21 - 00:53:00:23 Wade Known this about gaming for years and years because anybody that plays any kind of game, especially. 00:53:00:23 - 00:53:01:03 Wade A role. 00:53:01:03 - 00:53:02:01 Wade Playing game, you. 00:53:02:01 - 00:53:03:13 Wade Are transporting. 00:53:03:13 - 00:53:06:09 Wade Yourself into another world, another. 00:53:06:09 - 00:53:07:12 Wade Reality. 00:53:07:15 - 00:53:08:05 Wade And there. 00:53:08:05 - 00:53:09:20 Wade Are cognitive and. 00:53:09:20 - 00:53:10:09 Wade Emotional. 00:53:10:09 - 00:53:12:25 Wade Benefits to doing that. 00:53:12:28 - 00:53:16:26 Evan Okay. So you're saying this is kind of like a deluxe staycation? 00:53:16:28 - 00:53:19:23 Wade Oh, absolutely. It is. It's a deluxe staycation. 00:53:19:23 - 00:53:22:27 Wade That you can enjoy from the comfort of your own home. 00:53:23:00 - 00:53:24:01 Wade Right? 00:53:24:03 - 00:53:44:18 Evan So if we're working off this idea that video games offer us the ability to engage in the kind of vacation that we normally couldn't afford, and I think when we talk about affords, sure, financially, but I think it's also an economy of time to, gaming can quickly get you into a new environment that you feel immersed and engaged in. 00:53:44:20 - 00:53:50:16 Evan Is there some research or any writing that has explored this topic? 00:53:50:18 - 00:53:54:26 Wade Yeah, I think that also when. 00:53:54:26 - 00:53:58:19 Wade We think of vacations, we think of these multi-day. 00:53:58:21 - 00:54:00:10 Wade week or multi week. 00:54:00:10 - 00:54:01:28 Wade Even. 00:54:02:00 - 00:54:02:26 Wade Trips or. 00:54:02:26 - 00:54:05:01 Wade Experiences. 00:54:05:04 - 00:54:06:16 Wade but I think that. 00:54:06:19 - 00:54:12:03 Wade More often than not, when we think about gaming, we think of them as one and done sort of things. And so what. 00:54:12:03 - 00:54:13:16 Wade I'd like to think about. 00:54:13:18 - 00:54:14:19 Wade In this segment. 00:54:14:19 - 00:54:15:12 Wade Is how. 00:54:15:12 - 00:54:19:09 Wade Can a game be a mini vacation? And this is not something that. 00:54:19:09 - 00:54:20:00 Wade I created. 00:54:20:00 - 00:54:21:09 Wade In 2020. 00:54:21:12 - 00:54:28:02 Wade There was a book released, by, edited by, Barbaros Boston. 00:54:28:04 - 00:54:28:26 Wade the name of the book is. 00:54:28:26 - 00:54:29:09 Wade Called a. 00:54:29:09 - 00:54:34:10 Wade Game User Experience and Player Centered Design. Now, the entire book. 00:54:34:10 - 00:54:34:27 Wade Is pretty. 00:54:34:27 - 00:54:35:04 Wade Pretty. 00:54:35:04 - 00:54:36:01 Wade Incredible. 00:54:36:03 - 00:54:37:04 Wade But, 00:54:37:07 - 00:54:42:03 Wade It's all research based. It's a series of research, some would be fodder for. 00:54:42:03 - 00:54:43:23 Wade Dissertations, all that kind of stuff. 00:54:44:00 - 00:54:45:08 Wade But the chapter that. 00:54:45:08 - 00:54:46:28 Wade Really compelled me to think about. 00:54:46:28 - 00:54:48:12 Wade This is chapter four of. 00:54:48:12 - 00:54:49:17 Wade This book, and it's titled. 00:54:49:17 - 00:54:54:17 Wade This just a great chapter title. It's called Four Pillars of Healthy. 00:54:54:17 - 00:54:56:24 Wade Escapism in Games. 00:54:56:26 - 00:55:00:27 Wade Four pillars. Yeah, four pillars of healthy escape. 00:55:00:27 - 00:55:01:27 Wade Ism in games. 00:55:02:03 - 00:55:04:14 Wade What we're ultimately talking about with video. 00:55:04:14 - 00:55:06:21 Wade Gaming and how it is going to impact. 00:55:06:21 - 00:55:07:03 Wade Our. 00:55:07:03 - 00:55:08:08 Wade Well-Being and. 00:55:08:10 - 00:55:10:27 Wade Offer those psychosocial benefits that we're. 00:55:10:27 - 00:55:13:05 Wade Wanting. We're talking about. 00:55:13:05 - 00:55:15:04 Wade Escapism. You know, escapism. 00:55:15:04 - 00:55:15:12 Wade Gets. 00:55:15:12 - 00:55:19:08 Wade A bad rap, right? Okay. Well, when we think about escapism. 00:55:19:14 - 00:55:23:02 Wade We're thinking about ignoring life and escaping away. 00:55:23:02 - 00:55:28:29 Wade To a fantasy reality. Right? we're we're we're ignoring responsibilities. We're removing ourselves. 00:55:29:05 - 00:55:29:24 Wade From. 00:55:29:26 - 00:55:31:23 Wade Whatever it is. Okay. But escapism. 00:55:31:23 - 00:55:32:08 Wade Is not. 00:55:32:08 - 00:55:33:15 Wade Necessarily. 00:55:33:15 - 00:55:36:03 Wade Inherently a bad thing. there's. 00:55:36:03 - 00:55:36:21 Wade There's healthy. 00:55:36:21 - 00:55:38:01 Wade Escapism and there's unhealthy. 00:55:38:01 - 00:55:38:21 Wade Escapism. 00:55:38:21 - 00:55:39:13 Wade Too much of a. 00:55:39:18 - 00:55:40:00 Wade A good. 00:55:40:00 - 00:55:40:27 Wade Thing becomes a bad. 00:55:40:27 - 00:55:42:10 Wade Thing, right? 00:55:42:12 - 00:55:44:05 Wade And so. 00:55:44:07 - 00:55:45:28 Wade That's why this chapter title, I think. 00:55:45:28 - 00:55:46:09 Wade Is so good. 00:55:46:09 - 00:55:47:28 Wade For pillars of healthy. 00:55:47:28 - 00:55:50:22 Wade Escapism in games. and the. 00:55:50:22 - 00:55:56:00 Wade Authors Mehmet Kosar and Ahmet us all, they and I. 00:55:56:01 - 00:55:57:12 Wade Hope that I'm pronouncing those right. 00:55:57:12 - 00:55:58:15 Evan We'll do our best. 00:55:58:18 - 00:56:00:06 Wade Yeah, we do our best and forget the rest. 00:56:00:06 - 00:56:00:28 Wade Right. 00:56:01:00 - 00:56:05:26 Wade these this is a great essay, a great article or chapter. 00:56:05:26 - 00:56:08:23 Wade On kind of offering some. 00:56:08:23 - 00:56:09:14 Wade Areas. 00:56:09:14 - 00:56:14:17 Wade That we can attend to in our gaming lives. but let me ask you, I mean. 00:56:14:24 - 00:56:16:23 Wade Have you ever experienced. 00:56:16:23 - 00:56:17:27 Wade A game where. 00:56:17:27 - 00:56:21:01 Wade Your mood or your life felt. 00:56:21:01 - 00:56:22:09 Wade Like it was more enriched. 00:56:22:09 - 00:56:24:10 Wade As a result of that game? 00:56:24:12 - 00:56:52:19 Evan Yeah, absolutely. I think. Both sides of that are true as well. Right? Like, I've experienced frustration in games and. Yeah. And wanted to, move to something a little cozier, but it makes me think about, like, challenge level. and just the immersion, like the kind of flows that you lose yourself in it. Yeah. You get into a really good game and you kind of lose track of time. 00:56:52:21 - 00:57:11:17 Evan that's that's a way that's a marker that I know that I'm hitting on, that where I feel like I'm kind of transported, is that I look down and a lot of time has passed. Yeah, that happened to me not too long ago with the God of War. I was playing God of War Ragnarok, and I just sat there. 00:57:11:17 - 00:57:32:19 Evan And then when I looked at the clock, it was no joke, like three hours later and I was just having a fantastic time, and I felt alert and engaged and re-energized and that game does a really good job of stewarding your time as well. So yeah, that's that's probably my most recent experience. What about for you. 00:57:32:22 - 00:57:34:07 Wade The the game I go back. 00:57:34:07 - 00:57:40:23 Wade To again and again. I think it was it was not just me. It was a worldwide phenomenon. Right. in 2020, Animal Crossing. 00:57:40:26 - 00:57:41:13 Evan okay. 00:57:41:15 - 00:57:44:25 Wade This was a much needed vacation in a. 00:57:44:25 - 00:57:45:23 Wade World that. 00:57:45:23 - 00:57:48:10 Wade Was falling apart. I mean, the pandemic. 00:57:48:19 - 00:57:52:00 Wade Covid was in full swing, and, 00:57:52:02 - 00:57:55:08 Wade I, I don't remember March, I guess, of that year. 00:57:55:10 - 00:57:59:26 Wade as things were shutting down and there was all this uncertainty, animal crossing is. 00:57:59:26 - 00:58:01:21 Wade Released and it gave. 00:58:01:21 - 00:58:03:08 Wade Me and so many. 00:58:03:08 - 00:58:06:29 Wade Others, a window to escape this weird. 00:58:06:29 - 00:58:07:20 Wade Uncertainty of. 00:58:07:20 - 00:58:08:11 Wade Reality, to. 00:58:08:11 - 00:58:11:12 Wade Go and, plant crops and, make friends with. 00:58:11:12 - 00:58:12:28 Wade A duck that keeps. 00:58:12:28 - 00:58:14:08 Wade Drowning in the ocean. 00:58:14:08 - 00:58:16:23 Wade After it did a lot of work, I did a lot of. 00:58:16:23 - 00:58:19:09 Wade Fishing like I do in all games. you. 00:58:19:09 - 00:58:20:09 Evan Love to fish in games. 00:58:20:09 - 00:58:20:21 Wade I love. 00:58:20:21 - 00:58:22:13 Wade Fishing. yeah. 00:58:22:17 - 00:58:35:05 Evan Here's a question about your Animal Crossing pandemic experience. I remember that you held some sort of Easter service in. Oh my God. I wonder if you could speak to that for a minute. 00:58:35:05 - 00:58:35:17 Wade Yeah. 00:58:35:17 - 00:58:37:21 Evan So it's the ultimate escape. 00:58:37:23 - 00:58:39:00 Wade Yeah. So a lot a lot. 00:58:39:00 - 00:58:39:15 Wade Of people know. 00:58:39:15 - 00:58:40:25 Wade That, you know, I've got a. 00:58:40:25 - 00:58:47:13 Wade History and religious life and all that kind of stuff. And so, Easter Sunday morning comes up and, 00:58:47:15 - 00:58:49:00 Wade I had this idea. I was like, let's. 00:58:49:00 - 00:58:49:27 Wade Just host an Easter. 00:58:49:27 - 00:58:50:27 Wade Service. 00:58:51:00 - 00:58:57:07 Wade On my Animal Crossing island. So I invited some real life friends, and they showed up and it was amazing. You can actually find the. 00:58:57:07 - 00:58:57:24 Wade Video. 00:58:57:24 - 00:59:00:29 Wade Of this on my YouTube and watch it in its entirety. 00:59:01:05 - 00:59:02:25 Wade It's ridiculous. But like, seven. 00:59:02:25 - 00:59:06:09 Wade Friends and a waiting list. Yeah, showed. 00:59:06:09 - 00:59:08:01 Wade Up because you could only have eight people. 00:59:08:01 - 00:59:12:03 Wade On your island, including yourself. So many people showed up from real life. 00:59:12:06 - 00:59:20:03 Wade Jesus showed up. Somebody cosplayed Jesus with a halo over his head. And like, they didn't tell anybody, didn't tell anybody that. 00:59:20:03 - 00:59:21:00 Wade He was coming dressed. 00:59:21:00 - 00:59:23:26 Wade Like Jesus. And so he gets out of the. 00:59:23:26 - 00:59:24:28 Wade Plane and. 00:59:24:28 - 00:59:37:14 Wade Comes to the island and everyone is like, he is risen! He is risen indeed. And there he is. He's with us. It was, it was it was incredible. So he comes in and but he sits on the front row. You. I was like, do you want to lead the service? 00:59:37:15 - 00:59:39:04 Wade Jesus was like, nah, I'm good. 00:59:39:06 - 00:59:44:19 Wade but we had like little, instruments all over the place, like, on my. 00:59:44:19 - 00:59:45:27 Wade Island. It took me like a week. 00:59:45:27 - 00:59:46:18 Wade But what else did. 00:59:46:18 - 00:59:48:00 Wade We have going? We. It was a pandemic. 00:59:48:01 - 00:59:50:11 Wade Yeah. I I crafted. 00:59:51:10 - 00:59:53:28 Wade Pews made of, like, little. 00:59:54:01 - 00:59:55:00 Wade tree benches. 00:59:55:00 - 00:59:57:20 Wade Yeah, I made a pulpit. somebody somebody. 00:59:57:20 - 01:00:00:17 Wade From another island shipped me. 01:00:00:20 - 01:00:01:24 Wade like, exports. 01:00:01:24 - 01:00:07:08 Wade From their island for instruments and sound systems and all this. So it was amazing. 01:00:07:08 - 01:00:08:16 Wade It was an absolutely amazing job. 01:00:08:17 - 01:00:09:11 Evan Contractor. 01:00:09:12 - 01:00:10:00 Wade I run a. 01:00:10:05 - 01:00:12:02 Wade Contractor from off island, but. 01:00:12:02 - 01:00:12:12 Wade The. 01:00:12:12 - 01:00:13:09 Wade Service happens. 01:00:13:09 - 01:00:18:09 Wade Jesus shows up, we're all there. I give an order of the service where. 01:00:18:12 - 01:00:20:13 Wade it's like, hey everybody, I want to welcome you. And especially. 01:00:20:13 - 01:00:21:15 Wade You, Jesus, guest of. 01:00:21:15 - 01:00:21:28 Wade Honor. 01:00:21:28 - 01:00:24:27 Wade And we're, we're experiencing this. 01:00:24:27 - 01:00:26:09 Wade So I'm, like, reading a few. 01:00:26:09 - 01:00:30:07 Wade Liturgies that I found we have three, 2 or 3 songs. 01:00:30:10 - 01:00:34:03 Wade And, like, the way you do it, an Animal Crossing is you can play something on the radio. 01:00:34:03 - 01:00:35:17 Wade Or a record player. 01:00:35:19 - 01:00:40:04 Wade and if you play an instrument while that music's playing an auto tunes to it. 01:00:40:07 - 01:00:47:27 Wade Okay. So like, I've got a guitar, a piano, drums, everybody. It's like, okay, time for our first song. Everybody gets up off the pews. 01:00:47:29 - 01:00:50:02 Wade And they go to their instruments, and then we're just. 01:00:50:02 - 01:00:52:16 Wade Like, going for it. And then people that are. 01:00:52:16 - 01:00:53:13 Wade Singing are. 01:00:53:13 - 01:01:02:09 Wade Just furiously typing like, praise him or he is risen. And it's like, we got music and song. And in there were eight people because I. 01:01:02:11 - 01:01:03:16 Wade In the waiting list, I had. 01:01:03:16 - 01:01:03:26 Wade Other. 01:01:04:00 - 01:01:05:24 Evan That's a full Animal Crossing Easter. 01:01:05:24 - 01:01:09:18 Wade Service. That was a cap, and I had 3 or 4 people that were like. 01:01:09:18 - 01:01:15:00 Wade Hey, can somebody leave? So we can come in and experience the resurrection? And I was like, no, sorry, you can't. 01:01:15:00 - 01:01:15:12 Wade I wasn't even. 01:01:15:12 - 01:01:16:29 Wade Streaming at this point back then. 01:01:17:01 - 01:01:18:07 Wade So, one of. 01:01:18:07 - 01:01:19:09 Wade The cool thing, I mean, I'll shut. 01:01:19:09 - 01:01:20:21 Wade Up about this, shut. 01:01:20:21 - 01:01:21:05 Evan Up about it. 01:01:21:05 - 01:01:23:08 Wade It's amazing. You know how you know how in a. 01:01:23:08 - 01:01:25:21 Wade Lot of religious services there will be like the. 01:01:25:21 - 01:01:27:05 Wade The token candle. 01:01:27:05 - 01:01:27:24 Wade That you like. 01:01:27:24 - 01:01:30:19 Wade To signify the presence or the power of the divine. 01:01:30:21 - 01:01:31:11 Wade Well, I had a tiki. 01:01:31:11 - 01:01:33:22 Wade Torch and I said, let. 01:01:33:22 - 01:01:34:01 Wade There be. 01:01:34:01 - 01:01:35:15 Wade Light and let us welcome the. 01:01:35:15 - 01:01:41:18 Wade Light of God into our hearts. And I lit the tiki torch. People were like, I did the. 01:01:41:19 - 01:01:42:15 Wade Clapping emote. 01:01:42:15 - 01:01:42:29 Wade And it was great. 01:01:43:04 - 01:01:43:29 Wade And then at the end. 01:01:43:29 - 01:01:44:22 Wade Of the service. 01:01:44:28 - 01:01:46:10 Wade This was maybe my favorite. 01:01:46:10 - 01:01:47:05 Evan Part. 01:01:47:07 - 01:01:47:12 Wade I. 01:01:47:12 - 01:01:48:26 Wade Said, and so today we remember. 01:01:48:26 - 01:01:51:08 Wade We remember, he is risen. 01:01:51:12 - 01:01:52:15 Wade We remember this. 01:01:52:15 - 01:01:53:06 Wade I said, but. 01:01:53:06 - 01:01:54:28 Wade Also remember. 01:01:55:00 - 01:01:56:06 Wade Who you are. 01:01:56:08 - 01:01:58:08 Wade And remember your baptism. And I took out. 01:01:58:08 - 01:02:01:23 Wade A watering flower pail, and I doused everybody. 01:02:01:26 - 01:02:02:21 Wade In, 01:02:02:23 - 01:02:10:00 Wade With the water and people were again, like, even Jesus. I wish the quote of that. 01:02:10:00 - 01:02:13:28 Evan Is so Jesus gets off the plane. 01:02:14:00 - 01:02:22:18 Wade so Jesus gets off the block. It was a it was one of the best experiences. But again, it was this moment of vacation and reprieve. 01:02:22:20 - 01:02:25:11 Wade In the midst of a time when we couldn't escape. 01:02:25:13 - 01:02:26:17 Wade We couldn't escape the. 01:02:26:19 - 01:02:28:08 Wade Dire nature of the pandemic. 01:02:28:08 - 01:02:29:16 Wade And it was. 01:02:29:18 - 01:02:32:16 Wade it was one of those mood altering moments for me. 01:02:32:16 - 01:02:34:09 Wade That was just like. 01:02:34:11 - 01:02:35:06 Wade Gaming. 01:02:35:06 - 01:02:36:24 Wade Has elevated to another level. 01:02:37:00 - 01:02:46:13 Evan That's amazing. Thank you for sharing and catching everyone. if you're if you're listening, on the podcast, if you can't see him, he's grinning ear to ear. 01:02:46:14 - 01:02:54:18 Wade He I listen, your top ten moment of my life I think is so good I would stack it up against any religious service I've ever been to. 01:02:54:25 - 01:03:21:08 Evan And you can check it out on the YouTube channel. So you probably make sure to include a link to that, in the description there. so Recentering us back on the research. I'm getting to, introduce the title, an organism that is a specter of that. So you said this, we're going to talk about video game vacation, four ways to ensure that gaming re-energize is you for ways to ensure that gaming re-energize is you. 01:03:21:08 - 01:03:25:02 Evan I wonder if we could get started looking at some of those four categories. What are they. 01:03:25:04 - 01:03:26:20 Wade Yeah. Khoza and we saw. 01:03:27:03 - 01:03:33:15 Wade They, they specified four different pillars that are inherent. 01:03:33:15 - 01:03:34:19 Wade In kind of game. 01:03:34:19 - 01:03:36:11 Wade Related. 01:03:36:13 - 01:03:37:22 Wade emotional well-being. And the. 01:03:37:22 - 01:03:38:24 Wade First of those four. 01:03:38:24 - 01:03:41:18 Wade Is emotional regulation. that. 01:03:41:25 - 01:03:42:19 Wade Begs to be. 01:03:42:19 - 01:03:43:12 Wade Defined a little bit. 01:03:43:12 - 01:03:44:17 Wade Emotional regulation. 01:03:44:17 - 01:03:44:24 Wade They. 01:03:44:24 - 01:03:45:19 Wade Say, is. 01:03:45:19 - 01:03:48:02 Wade Defined by the attempt of modifying the. 01:03:48:02 - 01:03:49:04 Wade Trajectory. 01:03:49:08 - 01:03:51:12 Wade Of one's emotions. Okay. 01:03:51:20 - 01:03:52:09 Wade It is the. 01:03:52:09 - 01:03:54:06 Wade Attempt of modifying the. 01:03:54:06 - 01:03:55:04 Wade Trajectory. 01:03:55:08 - 01:03:57:08 Wade Of one's emotions. 01:03:57:08 - 01:03:58:03 Wade Okay. Right. 01:03:58:05 - 01:04:17:26 Evan What does it mean to modify the tragic attempting. That's interesting. That says attempting to modify that. Yes. Your emotions. So if I was going to break this down, I have to first recognize that my emotions exist and have a trajectory. Determine what that trajectory is and then make an attempt to modify it is that how you would. 01:04:17:26 - 01:04:21:01 Wade Yeah I think so. Trajectory. for a jRPG. 01:04:21:01 - 01:04:23:01 Wade Fan out there under that, we've got some listeners. 01:04:23:01 - 01:04:24:08 Wade There that it's the idea of. 01:04:24:08 - 01:04:28:17 Wade Destiny and defying fate or defying destiny. You are on a. 01:04:28:17 - 01:04:30:04 Wade Trajectory towards. 01:04:30:04 - 01:04:30:27 Wade Sadness. 01:04:30:27 - 01:04:32:03 Wade What does it look like. 01:04:32:03 - 01:04:32:20 Wade To attempt to. 01:04:32:20 - 01:04:34:21 Wade Modify that trajectory? 01:04:34:21 - 01:04:37:04 Wade And this is something that games can do. 01:04:37:04 - 01:04:38:11 Wade According to the research. 01:04:38:11 - 01:04:39:12 Wade That's not my opinion. 01:04:39:12 - 01:04:41:25 Wade This is actual research that says that. 01:04:41:25 - 01:04:43:22 Wade We can make an attempt. 01:04:43:27 - 01:04:45:03 Wade To defy. 01:04:45:07 - 01:04:46:04 Wade Destiny. 01:04:46:04 - 01:04:47:01 Wade The trajectory. 01:04:47:01 - 01:04:48:08 Wade Of our emotions. 01:04:48:11 - 01:04:48:26 Wade Through the. 01:04:48:26 - 01:04:50:11 Wade Agency offered in games. 01:04:50:11 - 01:04:51:03 Wade Pretty cool stuff. 01:04:51:07 - 01:04:52:20 Evan That's an empowering statement. 01:04:52:20 - 01:04:53:11 Wade But yeah, I. 01:04:53:11 - 01:05:09:02 Evan Wonder what the next step in application is for that. If we talk about how we want to take the things that we experience and play and then games and use it to test and improve on some things in our lives that aren't present on the screen or the page. 01:05:09:02 - 01:05:14:04 Wade What would that look? Yeah, fantasy imitates reality. And in the same ways. 01:05:14:06 - 01:05:19:14 Wade Practice is a form of fantasy. Practice makes perfect. And so as you are. 01:05:19:14 - 01:05:21:18 Wade Living in to something, even in. 01:05:21:18 - 01:05:22:12 Wade Practice. 01:05:22:18 - 01:05:24:01 Wade When it's game time. 01:05:24:01 - 01:05:25:02 Wade Your real life. 01:05:25:09 - 01:05:26:24 Wade You're going to be able to implement those things. 01:05:26:24 - 01:05:31:03 Wade So here's what the research also says, that there's a platform for emotional. 01:05:31:03 - 01:05:33:00 Wade Regulation in games to take. 01:05:33:00 - 01:05:35:06 Wade Place as games are vast. 01:05:35:06 - 01:05:36:18 Wade Playground for players. 01:05:36:18 - 01:05:37:14 Wade To select. 01:05:37:14 - 01:05:39:16 Wade And modify situations to their. 01:05:39:16 - 01:05:43:08 Wade Liking. Games are also effective for distraction. 01:05:43:08 - 01:05:48:27 Wade Providing temporary disengagement from negative and undesirable emotions, emotions that. 01:05:48:27 - 01:05:50:15 Wade Are likely accrued. 01:05:50:17 - 01:05:53:12 Wade And accumulated in the real world. And so. 01:05:53:12 - 01:05:54:01 Wade You get a. 01:05:54:01 - 01:05:55:13 Wade Playground where. 01:05:55:13 - 01:05:58:05 Wade You can test, where you can practice, where you. 01:05:58:05 - 01:06:00:11 Wade Can, create a new. 01:06:00:11 - 01:06:03:21 Wade Reality in this safe zone of a, of. 01:06:03:21 - 01:06:06:04 Wade A game space, to, to. 01:06:06:06 - 01:06:07:16 Wade Redirect your life. 01:06:07:20 - 01:06:08:10 Wade In your real. 01:06:08:10 - 01:06:09:19 Wade World. So. 01:06:09:21 - 01:06:12:16 Wade For instance, if something's not to your liking in the game. 01:06:12:16 - 01:06:13:23 Wade Your problem. 01:06:13:23 - 01:06:16:08 Wade Solving in real time to manipulate it. 01:06:16:08 - 01:06:17:08 Wade Into. 01:06:17:09 - 01:06:18:23 Wade Something that's more pleasing to. 01:06:18:23 - 01:06:21:09 Wade You, that skill set is. 01:06:21:09 - 01:06:22:07 Wade A transferable. 01:06:22:07 - 01:06:24:19 Wade Skills that you will begin to regulate. 01:06:24:21 - 01:06:25:08 Wade In. 01:06:25:08 - 01:06:25:18 Wade Your. 01:06:25:18 - 01:06:27:00 Wade Actual emotional world. 01:06:27:00 - 01:06:27:12 Wade Outside. 01:06:27:12 - 01:06:28:13 Wade Of the game. Does that make sense? 01:06:28:18 - 01:06:50:14 Evan It does. It does. they use the language like negative emotions. I have been told that there's no such thing as negative emotions in the way that they're thinking about how we understand them. there's just emotions that we assign negative feelings, thoughts that emotions just are. They aren't good. They aren't bad. We have to acknowledge that they just exist. 01:06:50:16 - 01:07:04:09 Evan And then when we acknowledge that they just exist, we can accept them and be able to actually engage with them. and so do you think that that plays into, like, the emotions that are typically perceived as negative? Would you. 01:07:04:09 - 01:07:05:28 Wade Yeah, I think that's a good qualifier. 01:07:05:29 - 01:07:06:07 Wade You know. 01:07:06:07 - 01:07:07:14 Wade It's the the. 01:07:07:14 - 01:07:11:13 Wade Emotion that is causing a negative reaction within you. Yeah. 01:07:11:13 - 01:07:14:20 Wade So we we know that sadness. 01:07:14:23 - 01:07:19:03 Wade has an important piece. I mean, if you've seen Inside Out one. 01:07:19:05 - 01:07:20:29 Wade you know, sadness has a role. 01:07:20:29 - 01:07:22:21 Wade You can't just dismiss it. 01:07:22:24 - 01:07:31:21 Wade But is, right. But is there, is there a way to. 01:07:31:23 - 01:07:37:11 Wade Identify the emotion in you that is creating a negative response? And can you. 01:07:37:11 - 01:07:38:27 Wade Redirect that. 01:07:38:29 - 01:07:39:12 Wade In a. 01:07:39:12 - 01:07:42:07 Wade Healthier or proper, space? 01:07:42:07 - 01:07:47:19 Evan Yeah. And we can use games in play to be able to have a safe place to practice that. Okay. 01:07:47:20 - 01:07:48:19 Wade Now this is this is. 01:07:48:19 - 01:07:50:06 Wade Something that I do want to add. 01:07:50:06 - 01:07:51:00 Wade That the research. 01:07:51:04 - 01:07:52:06 Wade Mentions. And we. 01:07:52:06 - 01:07:53:18 Wade Could talk for days about. 01:07:53:18 - 01:07:54:07 Wade This one. 01:07:54:10 - 01:07:54:28 Wade But it says. 01:07:54:28 - 01:07:56:10 Wade That initial findings. 01:07:56:10 - 01:07:59:20 Wade Also show this is so cool that regular or frequent. 01:07:59:20 - 01:08:02:05 Wade Gamers use emotional regulation. 01:08:02:05 - 01:08:03:20 Wade Strategies better. 01:08:03:26 - 01:08:06:28 Wade Than your regular or infrequent gamers. 01:08:06:28 - 01:08:10:24 Wade How cool is that? So if you are. 01:08:10:24 - 01:08:11:22 Wade A more frequent. 01:08:11:28 - 01:08:12:26 Wade Regular. 01:08:12:26 - 01:08:13:26 Wade Gamer. 01:08:13:28 - 01:08:14:12 Wade You are. 01:08:14:12 - 01:08:21:27 Wade Developing emotional regulation strategies and able to employ those things better than if you were an infrequent. 01:08:21:27 - 01:08:27:14 Wade Gamer. So if you're a hardcore gamer, guess what? You're there's good news for your emotional regulation. 01:08:27:16 - 01:08:51:00 Evan And you've probably been doing it subconsciously. And so this is really thinking intentionally about pulling that out of our subconscious and making it something that we can kind of memorialize and live into, which is, I think, goes into some of the aspects of a vacation, right? Vacation. You take a lot of pictures, you're in a new environment. You're more receptive to new changes, you're more aware of your surroundings, those kinds of things. 01:08:51:00 - 01:09:03:15 Evan I mean, there's special things that you do just on vacation, and there's a reason that things stick out and we make more memories typically when we're on vacation, because we do that. And so video games helped transport us to that. What's our next category? 01:09:03:18 - 01:09:10:05 Wade Mood management. Mood management. so mood management think more in terms. 01:09:10:05 - 01:09:16:10 Wade Of, think more in terms of a bit more of a. 01:09:16:10 - 01:09:22:12 Wade Long term sort of thing. If emotional management is moment to moment, mood management is more. 01:09:22:12 - 01:09:22:28 Wade About your. 01:09:22:28 - 01:09:25:23 Wade Long term, emotional. 01:09:25:23 - 01:09:26:10 Wade State. 01:09:26:11 - 01:09:26:19 Evan Okay. 01:09:26:19 - 01:09:32:09 Wade So the art and art for example. So again, your your emotions. 01:09:32:09 - 01:09:33:07 Wade In the moment. 01:09:33:10 - 01:09:34:24 Wade Set a trajectory. 01:09:34:24 - 01:09:35:26 Wade For an overarching. 01:09:35:26 - 01:09:36:09 Wade Mood. 01:09:36:15 - 01:09:39:07 Wade That's, that's important to know okay. 01:09:39:10 - 01:09:42:28 Evan So it set the arc of the trajectory for your overall mood. 01:09:42:28 - 01:09:43:29 Wade For your overall. 01:09:43:29 - 01:09:44:13 Wade Mood. 01:09:44:15 - 01:09:47:01 Wade Okay. So let me read a little bit of the research here. 01:09:47:01 - 01:09:47:15 Wade I think this is. 01:09:47:15 - 01:09:51:19 Wade Really, really cool. the research shows. 01:09:51:19 - 01:09:54:18 Wade That games provide a useful medium for this mood management. 01:09:54:18 - 01:09:55:10 Wade For instance. 01:09:55:14 - 01:09:57:26 Wade Playing violent or nonviolent games. 01:09:58:01 - 01:09:59:24 Wade Helps reduce hostility. 01:09:59:24 - 01:10:00:16 Wade And enhance. 01:10:00:19 - 01:10:02:09 Wade Positive effects. 01:10:02:12 - 01:10:04:00 Wade However, understanding which. 01:10:04:00 - 01:10:04:20 Wade Aspects. 01:10:04:20 - 01:10:05:28 Wade Of games makes them more. 01:10:05:28 - 01:10:06:15 Wade Effective. 01:10:06:15 - 01:10:07:22 Wade For mood management is. 01:10:07:22 - 01:10:12:18 Wade Important. Vigorous experiments show that the player. 01:10:12:18 - 01:10:14:29 Wade Agency increases in a game. 01:10:15:02 - 01:10:15:24 Wade Mood of the. 01:10:15:24 - 01:10:17:19 Wade Board, and stressed individuals tend to. 01:10:17:19 - 01:10:19:12 Wade Improve as well. 01:10:19:14 - 01:10:20:28 Wade And players prefer medium. 01:10:20:28 - 01:10:22:17 Wade Level tasks rather. 01:10:22:17 - 01:10:23:03 Wade Than low. 01:10:23:03 - 01:10:24:08 Wade Or high 01:10:24:11 - 01:10:25:07 Wade Task demand. 01:10:25:14 - 01:10:25:27 Wade I think that's. 01:10:25:27 - 01:10:26:22 Wade Kind of interesting. 01:10:26:22 - 01:10:28:18 Wade Because it's the idea of. 01:10:28:20 - 01:10:29:24 Wade there's a fulfillment. 01:10:29:24 - 01:10:30:26 Wade Piece. 01:10:30:29 - 01:10:31:06 Wade that. 01:10:31:06 - 01:10:32:26 Wade Is, generally. 01:10:32:26 - 01:10:34:09 Wade Helping not only that. 01:10:34:09 - 01:10:39:15 Wade Trajectory, but that overall emotional state that you are, that you are in. 01:10:39:17 - 01:10:51:19 Evan It talked about two different types of tasks towards the end there. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about what that means. Like I think it said medium task. This is. 01:10:51:21 - 01:10:53:01 Wade Something that's cripplingly. 01:10:53:05 - 01:10:54:19 Wade Difficult or. 01:10:54:19 - 01:10:56:16 Wade Something that is mindlessly. 01:10:56:16 - 01:10:57:22 Wade Easy. So there's. 01:10:57:22 - 01:10:59:15 Wade Something with medium level. 01:10:59:15 - 01:11:02:12 Wade Engagement, right? This is. 01:11:03:22 - 01:11:04:23 Wade For all of our developer. 01:11:04:23 - 01:11:05:15 Wade Friends out. 01:11:05:15 - 01:11:10:17 Wade There. This is the key to side quests. Okay, okay, I fetch questing. 01:11:10:18 - 01:11:11:15 Wade Cutting it, and there's. 01:11:11:15 - 01:11:12:02 Wade There's. 01:11:12:04 - 01:11:13:02 Wade Science backed. 01:11:13:02 - 01:11:16:01 Wade Research as to why it doesn't cut it. 01:11:16:03 - 01:11:19:20 Wade Because it's not challenging enough. Now, if it's too challenging, you've missed the mark. 01:11:19:27 - 01:11:21:14 Wade But right there, there's a sweet. 01:11:21:14 - 01:11:22:18 Wade Spot in the middle. And that. 01:11:22:18 - 01:11:24:03 Wade Is the the task of every. 01:11:24:03 - 01:11:24:12 Wade Game. 01:11:24:12 - 01:11:34:05 Evan Dev, do you think your perfect torturous side quest would be an escort quest with bad pathing? I combined with the fetch quest. 01:11:34:08 - 01:11:43:12 Wade Yeah, and like, they're painfully slow or or this is worse. This is worse when the escort quest, giver moves. 01:11:43:19 - 01:11:45:16 Wade Slower than your run speed. 01:11:45:16 - 01:11:45:21 Wade But. 01:11:45:21 - 01:11:47:01 Wade Faster than your walk. 01:11:47:01 - 01:11:51:01 Wade Speed. Like it doesn't match your speed at all. It's like. 01:11:51:03 - 01:11:52:09 Wade And you're, like, having a slight. 01:11:52:09 - 01:11:53:14 Wade Seizure following. 01:11:53:14 - 01:11:54:00 Wade Behind them. 01:11:54:01 - 01:11:55:04 Wade And it is the worst. 01:11:55:05 - 01:12:03:11 Evan And I love it when they always add in, like a voice line or an animation. When you bump into them or try to go past them where they're like. 01:12:03:13 - 01:12:08:00 Wade Hey, hey, why are in such a hurry? 01:12:08:02 - 01:12:10:07 Evan what? And it's the same three voice lines. 01:12:10:11 - 01:12:15:17 Wade Where's the fire bulb? I don't think anyone's ever said that, but the. 01:12:15:18 - 01:12:19:02 Evan Classic sign twice. Voice sign. Where's the fire bulb? 01:12:19:06 - 01:12:20:05 Wade Bulb? 01:12:20:07 - 01:12:24:09 Evan You got it here. Okay, so, what's our next to it? 01:12:24:12 - 01:12:26:00 Wade Next one is coping. 01:12:26:03 - 01:12:30:12 Wade coping. video games as a coping mechanism. 01:12:30:12 - 01:12:33:21 Wade So, a little bit of the research, 01:12:33:23 - 01:12:35:03 Wade Reading straight from their chapter. 01:12:35:03 - 01:12:36:27 Wade First is problem focused. 01:12:36:27 - 01:12:39:03 Wade Coping, where the individual attempts to. 01:12:39:03 - 01:12:40:02 Wade Directly solve. 01:12:40:02 - 01:12:41:27 Wade A problem at hand that is causing. 01:12:41:27 - 01:12:42:14 Wade Stress. 01:12:42:14 - 01:12:45:02 Wade Such as getting organized, managing time. 01:12:45:04 - 01:12:47:14 Wade Obtaining active support to solve a problem. 01:12:47:15 - 01:12:48:21 Wade Okay, that's. 01:12:48:21 - 01:12:49:17 Wade The first type of. 01:12:49:17 - 01:12:53:24 Wade Coping. The second type of coping is an emotion focused coping where the individual. 01:12:53:24 - 01:12:55:13 Wade Decreases stress by. 01:12:55:13 - 01:12:58:02 Wade Regulating their feeling of the problem, such as by. 01:12:58:02 - 01:13:02:08 Wade Distraction with pleasurable, activities, 01:13:02:10 - 01:13:04:04 Wade Relaxation or talking to a friend. 01:13:04:06 - 01:13:12:02 Evan Okay, let's define coping. just like from the outset and then break that down into the two types. So coping. 01:13:12:02 - 01:13:15:19 Wade Yeah. Well a coping I would say is how. 01:13:15:19 - 01:13:17:00 Wade You are handling or dealing. 01:13:17:00 - 01:13:18:16 Wade With. 01:13:18:19 - 01:13:28:21 Wade the negative experiences or emotions of the world around you. Okay. So it can be stress. Stress can be good, but if it's negative then you've got to find a way of coping with that. 01:13:28:24 - 01:13:30:28 Wade And what games allow us to do is. 01:13:30:28 - 01:13:33:00 Wade Either, you know, again that playground of. 01:13:33:00 - 01:13:35:16 Wade Activity of. 01:13:35:18 - 01:13:37:14 Wade you know, alleviating some of that stress. 01:13:37:14 - 01:13:39:04 Wade Or distraction. 01:13:39:04 - 01:13:40:12 Wade With something that is. 01:13:40:12 - 01:13:41:10 Wade Completely. 01:13:41:13 - 01:13:44:06 Wade Unrelated, offering. 01:13:44:08 - 01:13:44:29 Wade pleasure or. 01:13:44:29 - 01:13:46:08 Wade Relaxation or. 01:13:46:08 - 01:13:48:15 Wade Socio, social. 01:13:48:18 - 01:13:50:09 Wade interaction with someone. 01:13:50:09 - 01:13:50:20 Wade Else. 01:13:50:23 - 01:14:06:16 Evan So because something's happened in the world around me and for me to cope to it, I have to understand what my internal reality is and match it. Or at least accept what the external reality of the circumstances that yeah, fits with coping. Okay, so my. 01:14:06:22 - 01:14:08:05 Wade Well and a. 01:14:08:05 - 01:14:10:05 Wade Study found that the coping which was. 01:14:10:05 - 01:14:13:01 Wade Characterized by the like cumulative experience. 01:14:13:01 - 01:14:13:15 Wade Of forgetting. 01:14:13:15 - 01:14:13:27 Wade Daily. 01:14:13:27 - 01:14:14:21 Wade Problems. 01:14:14:21 - 01:14:15:15 Wade Or hassles. 01:14:15:15 - 01:14:17:29 Wade Or unpleasant feelings by escaping real. 01:14:17:29 - 01:14:20:08 Wade Life, and all that when you. 01:14:20:08 - 01:14:21:10 Wade Channel that into. 01:14:21:10 - 01:14:22:00 Wade Pleasurable. 01:14:22:00 - 01:14:24:07 Wade Experiences. this. 01:14:24:07 - 01:14:25:16 Wade This is one of the ways that. 01:14:25:16 - 01:14:28:15 Wade Major, games. 01:14:28:15 - 01:14:30:02 Wade Motivate players. 01:14:30:02 - 01:14:32:09 Wade And help them cope in their real. 01:14:32:09 - 01:14:37:14 Wade Lives. Right? So it's kind of that idea of there's. 01:14:37:14 - 01:14:39:16 Wade Something going on in my life I need to turn. 01:14:39:16 - 01:14:40:13 Wade Off for a. 01:14:40:13 - 01:14:42:16 Wade While, and some of us go to video games. 01:14:42:16 - 01:14:44:14 Wade To do that. But while we. 01:14:44:14 - 01:14:45:10 Wade Are gaming. 01:14:45:11 - 01:14:46:17 Wade We're actively. 01:14:46:18 - 01:14:48:11 Wade Coping with what's going on in the. 01:14:48:11 - 01:14:50:05 Wade World. It's similar to sleep. 01:14:50:07 - 01:14:51:14 Wade When sometimes you just. 01:14:51:15 - 01:14:53:28 Wade You go to sleep really stressed or there's. 01:14:53:28 - 01:14:54:21 Wade A lot on your mind. 01:14:54:27 - 01:15:00:22 Wade You wake up and you feel a little bit rejuvenated. The heart, the bed seat, the, of your. 01:15:00:22 - 01:15:02:09 Wade Emotions begins to. 01:15:02:09 - 01:15:03:21 Wade Heal while you are. 01:15:03:21 - 01:15:07:21 Wade Sleeping. It's it's a coping mechanism. Gaming can do the same thing. 01:15:07:27 - 01:15:15:27 Evan Okay, so there were two types. There was problem focused coping and emotion focused coping. Let's discuss more about the difference between the two. 01:15:15:29 - 01:15:16:23 Wade Yeah. So an. 01:15:16:23 - 01:15:18:00 Wade Activity. 01:15:18:03 - 01:15:19:28 Wade game play. game based play. 01:15:19:28 - 01:15:22:09 Wade Right. Where you are able to. 01:15:22:11 - 01:15:23:15 Wade address a similar. 01:15:23:15 - 01:15:24:29 Wade Problem. 01:15:25:01 - 01:15:25:25 Wade in a game. 01:15:25:25 - 01:15:28:02 Wade And solve it. That's a way of coping. 01:15:28:04 - 01:15:33:27 Wade I can control things in a game that I can't control in real life. Therefore I'm coping with. 01:15:33:27 - 01:15:35:02 Wade It through. 01:15:35:02 - 01:15:37:18 Wade Again, this playground sandbox. 01:15:37:18 - 01:15:38:10 Wade Sort of world. 01:15:38:15 - 01:15:41:07 Wade The second thing is to focus on something that is. 01:15:41:07 - 01:15:42:08 Wade Unrelatable. 01:15:42:14 - 01:15:43:05 Wade unrelated. 01:15:43:05 - 01:15:43:13 Wade To. 01:15:43:13 - 01:15:44:26 Wade The negative experience. 01:15:45:00 - 01:15:47:07 Wade But pleasurable. It's a distraction. 01:15:47:09 - 01:16:07:21 Evan Okay, so video games are actively building a skill set within us to cope. And we can, when we understand it and pay attention to it, we can actually grow it in our personal lives, too. It's not like we have to sit down and say, I'm going to play this video game and learn how to cope. What we want to do is have an awareness that it's happening in the background and be able to take charge of it. 01:16:07:22 - 01:16:08:20 Evan Is that where we're headed here? 01:16:08:25 - 01:16:10:21 Wade Yeah, that's exactly right. 01:16:10:24 - 01:16:12:09 Wade I mean. 01:16:12:12 - 01:16:14:09 Wade This this gives you. 01:16:14:09 - 01:16:16:21 Wade Permission. It's a license to say. 01:16:16:23 - 01:16:17:21 Wade Hey. 01:16:17:24 - 01:16:27:05 Wade I'm doing some self care through gaming. It's not a mindless activity. This is not a time waste. I'm actually healing in some ways. 01:16:27:07 - 01:16:27:16 Wade Which is. 01:16:27:16 - 01:16:29:23 Evan Healing. I think that probably brings us to our final topic. 01:16:29:24 - 01:16:32:22 Wade Yeah. Is recovery. Recovery. 01:16:32:22 - 01:16:34:11 Wade So this is when people. 01:16:34:11 - 01:16:34:23 Wade Play. 01:16:34:23 - 01:16:35:29 Wade Games to escape from their. 01:16:35:29 - 01:16:41:26 Wade Daily stresses, usually associated with work or chores. This is why. 01:16:41:26 - 01:16:43:11 Wade When you finish a long. 01:16:43:11 - 01:16:44:24 Wade Day of work or school, it's. 01:16:44:24 - 01:16:49:14 Wade Like, I just want to decompress. Yeah, with some games, it's not about coping with things. 01:16:49:20 - 01:16:50:06 Wade But it's about. 01:16:50:06 - 01:16:52:18 Wade Regaining re-energizing to some. 01:16:52:18 - 01:16:54:00 Wade Degree. 01:16:54:03 - 01:16:54:29 Wade getting back some of that. 01:16:54:29 - 01:17:04:18 Wade Energy in your life. this is this is, this kind of escapism, the research says, relieves stress via. 01:17:04:18 - 01:17:04:23 Wade An. 01:17:04:23 - 01:17:06:08 Wade Activity that. 01:17:06:08 - 01:17:07:11 Wade Is, you know, a. 01:17:07:11 - 01:17:08:01 Wade Broader. 01:17:08:01 - 01:17:13:04 Wade System of recovery. And it's about recovering yourself. It's recovering that energy. 01:17:13:04 - 01:17:14:24 Wade Recovering that that. 01:17:14:24 - 01:17:22:26 Wade Motivation in life. it can be defined as recuperation from cognitive or emotional exhaustion. 01:17:22:27 - 01:17:26:24 Wade Yeah. So if you are exhausted, if you're. 01:17:26:24 - 01:17:27:26 Wade Exhausted from the. 01:17:27:26 - 01:17:33:21 Wade Tasks of life or school or work or whatever, you can recover this through. 01:17:33:23 - 01:17:34:15 Wade Gaming. 01:17:34:15 - 01:17:35:17 Wade And this is this is. 01:17:35:17 - 01:17:36:03 Wade Again. 01:17:36:03 - 01:17:41:10 Wade Research backed. This is great stuff. 01:17:41:13 - 01:17:58:21 Evan When we talk about recovering in general, typically we talk about recovering from something. Right. Like I'm recovering from my work day, I'm recovering from my flight, I'm recovering from an illness. We don't often talk about what we're recovering to. 01:17:58:24 - 01:18:03:16 Wade Hang on one second to. 01:18:03:18 - 01:18:05:26 Wade So that's that's that's. 01:18:05:28 - 01:18:24:26 Evan Oh, I think, ladies and gentlemen, I think we might have a dog that is throwing up. I think we'd heard the inevitable. Dog throw up. Dog throw up. 01:18:24:29 - 01:18:26:20 Wade He tried. 01:18:26:23 - 01:18:27:04 Wade We made. 01:18:27:04 - 01:18:29:03 Wade It out. We made it out. 01:18:29:09 - 01:18:36:21 Evan Okay. Do you want. Oh, second. Or do you want to just wrap up? Okay. That said, real quick. Oh, no need to let him back in in a minute. 01:18:36:23 - 01:18:38:00 Wade No no, no. He's fine. 01:18:38:03 - 01:18:39:22 Evan Oh. Okay. so. 01:18:39:22 - 01:18:41:12 Wade Just like the. 01:18:41:15 - 01:19:00:18 Evan Perfect. I'm talking about recovery. We know what recovering from something is. And I'm going to ask, what are we recovering to? And the question would be like, I'm recovering back to myself, which requires an understanding of self. Yeah. So I'm going to bring that up. And you want to talk about love and then we'll debrief from there I love it. 01:19:00:23 - 01:19:05:15 Evan We'll wrap it up okay. Great. The m smile. 01:19:05:17 - 01:19:31:02 Evan Okay. So a lot of the time we talk about recovering from something. When we think of recovery, we say recovering from an injury, recovering from an illness, recovering from a long day at work or a stressful season in life. I think we all experience that. Recovery kind of requires a destination, though. And so I wonder in this context, we know what we're recovering from, but what are we recovering to? 01:19:31:04 - 01:19:36:06 Wade what a great question. And this, this idea of recovery, which is. 01:19:36:08 - 01:19:37:06 Wade You know. 01:19:37:09 - 01:19:42:15 Wade It's relatable to everyone. But I think that it's also relatable to. 01:19:42:18 - 01:19:43:03 Wade you know. 01:19:43:06 - 01:19:43:18 Wade We talk. 01:19:43:18 - 01:19:45:01 Wade About, substance abuse. 01:19:45:01 - 01:19:47:00 Wade Recovery. We talk about. 01:19:47:03 - 01:19:49:00 Wade trauma recovery and all of that kind of stuff. 01:19:49:06 - 01:19:50:22 Wade Recovering is. 01:19:50:24 - 01:19:51:27 Wade Getting yourself. 01:19:51:27 - 01:19:56:26 Wade Back to your true self, who you truly are. It is. 01:19:56:26 - 01:19:57:21 Wade Recovering. 01:19:57:21 - 01:19:59:20 Wade The lost self. And I think that's. 01:19:59:27 - 01:20:01:20 Wade One thing that gaming can. 01:20:01:20 - 01:20:05:06 Wade Help us do. We recover that which has. 01:20:05:06 - 01:20:05:27 Wade Been. 01:20:05:29 - 01:20:07:04 Wade Chiseled away. 01:20:07:04 - 01:20:08:25 Wade Worn down. 01:20:08:27 - 01:20:09:22 Wade eroded. 01:20:09:22 - 01:20:10:16 Wade From the things of. 01:20:10:16 - 01:20:11:05 Wade The world. 01:20:11:05 - 01:20:12:01 Wade And so it's a. 01:20:12:01 - 01:20:15:08 Wade Recovery to yourself. 01:20:15:11 - 01:20:21:06 Evan That might be one of my favorite quotes that we've talked about. 01:20:21:09 - 01:20:21:26 Wade It's cool. 01:20:21:26 - 01:20:25:14 Evan Rhyming helps us recover our lost self. 01:20:25:17 - 01:20:26:02 Wade right. 01:20:26:03 - 01:20:27:11 Evan It's a great quote. 01:20:27:13 - 01:20:31:28 Wade Isn't that awesome? And this is this is it. Like I grew up, you grew. 01:20:31:28 - 01:20:33:15 Wade Up in a time when our. 01:20:33:15 - 01:20:33:29 Wade Parents. 01:20:33:29 - 01:20:36:07 Wade Didn't understand games or they understood. 01:20:36:07 - 01:20:37:28 Wade Pong or Atari. 01:20:37:28 - 01:20:41:20 Wade Or something like that. connect beginning Mario. 01:20:41:20 - 01:20:42:00 Wade Sort of. 01:20:42:00 - 01:20:44:15 Wade Stuff. And like, gaming was so new. 01:20:44:19 - 01:20:45:22 Wade That it was. 01:20:45:24 - 01:20:46:09 Wade Seen as. 01:20:46:09 - 01:20:48:01 Wade Frivolous as the stuff of. 01:20:48:03 - 01:20:52:00 Wade Nerds or niche communities and stuff that wouldn't do anything with. 01:20:52:00 - 01:20:53:29 Wade Their lives. But here we're actually. 01:20:53:29 - 01:20:55:23 Wade Finding that it can enhance and. 01:20:55:23 - 01:20:58:05 Wade Elevate our lives to a whole. 01:20:58:06 - 01:20:58:27 Wade New. 01:20:58:27 - 01:21:02:01 Wade Psychosocial positive result. 01:21:02:01 - 01:21:03:27 Wade And that is so cool to me. 01:21:03:27 - 01:21:04:18 Wade I wish that I had. 01:21:04:18 - 01:21:07:03 Wade This research and as a seven year old being like mom. 01:21:07:03 - 01:21:10:04 Wade Look at this. But what seven year old would do that? 01:21:10:09 - 01:21:35:07 Evan We did talk about that a lot around sports. And that was kind of how it was discussed was sports, hobbies, Boy Scouts, those kinds of. Yes. but I think the fact that they're more universally applicable to play and our hobbies and recreation in general, and that we have the research to now understand how those things happen in our play A really allows us to take advantage of what that is. 01:21:35:07 - 01:21:42:25 Evan Well, thanks for, all the thoughts. And, can you quote our authors and the book again for the for the folks as we kind of wrap up the segment? 01:21:42:28 - 01:21:46:29 Wade Absolutely. So the chapter is four pillars of healthy. 01:21:46:29 - 01:21:47:29 Wade Escapism in games. 01:21:47:29 - 01:21:48:12 Wade Emotional. 01:21:48:12 - 01:21:51:13 Wade Regulation, mood management, coping and recovery. 01:21:51:13 - 01:21:51:28 Wade By. 01:21:51:28 - 01:21:53:15 Wade Mehmet Kosar and Ahmet. 01:21:53:22 - 01:21:56:18 Wade We saw and you can get that. 01:21:56:20 - 01:21:57:04 Wade in. 01:21:57:04 - 01:22:01:24 Wade The full book, which is called Game User. 01:22:01:24 - 01:22:04:23 Wade Experience and Player Centered Design. 01:22:04:23 - 01:22:06:11 Wade By, Barbara. 01:22:06:15 - 01:22:07:15 Wade Boston is the. 01:22:07:15 - 01:22:09:15 Wade Editor. 01:22:09:17 - 01:22:12:02 Evan That title is very catchy. 01:22:12:04 - 01:22:15:23 Wade Read was just really it rolls off the tongue. That's amazing. 01:22:15:25 - 01:22:28:10 Evan We'll have links to all this in the show notes. Yeah, we wrote, just to close this out. Thanks for the time, everybody. This has been video game vacation four ways to ensure Gaming Re-energized This Year. Thanks. 01:22:28:17 - 01:22:37:11 Evan Hey everyone, welcome to our final segment which is our Gains Before Games segment. Prof does this with his students in his classroom. Tell us what we're all about. 01:22:37:13 - 01:22:54:04 Wade In four games is all about feeding your, real life before you feed your gaming life. so getting those gains, whether it's physical, emotional, spiritual, mental, whatever it is, before you get into your games. And so I just promoting healthy practices. 01:22:54:10 - 01:23:09:07 Evan Perfect. So we walk through four domains of life every four episodes. This is our first turn over back around to the physical domain. Yeah. So we're going to process a little bit about what we want to be different about our lives. And as you can of a physical challenge for us this week to kind of get us going. 01:23:09:07 - 01:23:24:15 Evan So for you listener and viewer, we just want to say, hey, what's something physically that you picked up on or that this episode made you think about that could, help you kind of improve in your daily life? Mine was going out and taking a walk with a family member to socialize based on healthy relationships from episode one. 01:23:24:15 - 01:23:31:03 Evan And it was great. It was wonderful. We had a very nice time. so physical domain. Wait, what do you think? In this week? 01:23:31:05 - 01:23:56:10 Wade So I'm, it's July. I'm in the midst of playing Dawn trail. and Dawn trail. Final fantasy 14 is all about this vacation vibe. eating, quesadillas and making margaritas and all that kind of stuff. So I like, you know, it's like the whole fantasy, the reality sort of thing. it's July. I want to take physical proximity, of of, vacation and stuff. 01:23:56:10 - 01:24:22:21 Wade So, again, it's sunny where I am. I'm going to be outside like, that's me for three months. and so the goal is I've got to physically get outside and do some things that are going to, rejuvenate me. while I've got some time off from work and all that kind of stuff. so really trying to live out that, physical relaxation piece that sometimes I can, neglect. 01:24:22:21 - 01:24:36:12 Wade Sometimes I get so caught up in the gym and all that kind of stuff that, like, I forget, hey, let's just, let's enjoy, let's enjoy physical, physical, life outside, I don't know, maybe play some some pickleball. I don't know. 01:24:36:14 - 01:24:59:23 Evan That ties in really well to what I was thinking about for the physical domain. And I was thinking about how I just don't feel like my exercise has been, like, physically challenging. Not to think like energy exerted isn't. I've been doing a lot of outside stuff, chores, walking the stuff, but I think I'm ready for like an excitement when it comes to exercise. 01:24:59:26 - 01:25:22:02 Evan I think maybe some pickleball, some racquetball, maybe since it's so hot a little outside, I may introduce a little more challenge to kind of make my skill rise to the occasion a little bit, and make me exercise and be active in some ways that I wouldn't. If it's just me on the exercise bike or me walking, because I don't get terribly competitive with myself, but you throw in somebody else, then then we're on. 01:25:22:06 - 01:25:23:20 Evan So. So this is. 01:25:23:27 - 01:25:49:18 Wade this is great, opportunity to, to help our viewers and listeners, on this. How do you quantify that? So for me personally, I'm going to, have myself have three 30 minute, minute times where I am relaxing outside three 30 minute times a week. over the next month where I am relaxing outside. What about you? 01:25:49:20 - 01:25:58:22 Evan I think I'm going to shoot for at least two up to six competitive exercise activities. 01:25:58:28 - 01:26:00:07 Wade Oh, I love that. 01:26:00:09 - 01:26:07:10 Evan That's awesome. That's what I'm going to go for. So there it is. So if you're a friend of mine and you're watching this or listening to this, you're ready. Hit me up. Let's go for. 01:26:07:10 - 01:26:09:11 Wade It. Get smoked in some racquetball. 01:26:09:14 - 01:26:26:13 Evan yeah. We got to get out that frustration somehow. Do you need a break? Are you even having fun? You need a break. Well, we won't let your rage quit baseball anymore. Thanks, Wade, for the discussion. And, we'll see you guys next segment. 01:26:28:10 - 01:26:48:01 Speaker 1 Thanks everyone for tuning in. A big thanks to sing, for the laughter, for the use of their music, and another shout outs and Nick Smith for the graphics. They're awesome. Thanks, Nick. Listener. We hope that you have had a fantastic day and we look forward to seeing you on our next episode. 01:27:06:11 - 01:27:17:07 Unknown Oh. 01:27:17:10 - 01:27:22:23 Unknown You.