¶ The Problem With Perfect
Hey friends , welcome to the Problem with Perfect . What is the Problem with Perfect ? It's the myth that if we just do more , be more and have more , our lives will be perfect . I'm Robin May , a journalist , wife , mother and , most days , a faith-filled Christian .
And I'm Denise Bickel , a clinical therapist , educator , mom Mimi and spirit-filled follower . As recovering perfectionists , we promise to be transparent and real and to share the wisdom of trusted advisors and guests .
So pull up a chair and have a seat . There's always a place for you at our table , our table . Welcome back to another episode of the problem with perfect . Hello Denise , hello Robin , how are you ? Hey , I'm doing well , denise .
It's , as you know and as I think we're probably going to talk about , it's been a very busy season of life Many really , really really good things , but good things are still stressful things , right ?
Yes , they sure can be , and the anticipation alone can be very exciting .
Yes , yes , yes . So I feel like we've kind of teased this for a couple of different episodes . I mean , I think if people are listening , they know that May or no not May 1st , june 1st Matt and Rachel are getting married .
So we are on the countdown now less than 30 days for the big day , and they also closed on the house this week , which was so exciting , and they also closed on the house this week , which was so exciting and just an answer to prayer , and so it's been fun watching their life come together and so all of that .
And then I have another big announcement , but I don't know , I think we're gonna wait . Are we gonna wait and talk about that ? We are gonna wait , just another week , one more week , okay , yeah . So come back next week , for the big announcement is super exciting , which has , uh , captured a lot of my time and attention . So I've been busy . How about you ?
well , I know you've been busy because you are always dressed to the nines and our listeners can't see this , but you have paint all over your shirt , so I know that you've been painting . For sure I am doing okay . You know it's about .
We're getting ready to go into the guided meditation series at the Denver Botanic Garden and four of the six are already sold out . And then the garden out here . That is more of a working farm kind of garden where I do the children's meditations . I did that last year .
Those are completely sold out for this year and I'm doing a women's guided meditation at the Chatfield Gardens and those are being very well attended also . So those just it's a wonderful way to spend a day , or an hour really is all it is in those gardens just being in nature and sunshine , and I love it .
So it's almost time , almost time to get started on those .
Well , good , well , and I think that's just a testimony to what an amazing job you do , which is one of the things that we've said . We've got to have you do more little tidbits of guided meditations on this podcast . Yes , I think that would be fun . Yeah , so , because it is definitely one of the things that you do really well .
Thanks , and I'm happy to think that you can finally get outside because , I tell you , your spring and winter intermix Like one day it's spring , the next day it's winter . It feels like till June .
Yeah , I think I've shared . First year I lived here we got 17 inches of snow on Mother's Day . So they tell all of the nurseries you know plant places tell you don't put anything out in the ground or in a pot until after mother's day wowza , yeah , my pots are looking good .
Can I just say that they are , yeah , so okay , well , uh , with it being may , that means that we have concluded another successful season of what to know before you go , and we did that last April and we did it again this April , and it really is a meaningful month where we're very specific in talking about topics of exactly what it sounds like what do we
need to know before we go . So this this year , we talked about palliative care and hospice , we talked about caregiver support and resources , we talked about the many phases and stages of grief and , last but not least , we talked about the spiritual aspects of end of life .
And so now , well , actually , let me just say , if you didn't catch any of those , please go back and listen . Great episodes , really helpful , and we also talked about we also talked about wheels and trusts , which was another really good episode as well . So go back and listen if you missed any of those .
But you and I , we are ready to shift our focus and we're going to shift it inward now .
That's correct , you know it's . It is that time of year , along with spring and flowers and planting . It's also the time of year when we're trying on our summer clothes and our bathing suits and we may be struggling with self-esteem . I , you know , I taught aerobics for years . You teach , you know , in the May , june .
Classes are just packed with people that are going to come in and get fit in the next three weeks , you know , and then you don't see him again till the next may or june , and so I I think this is an especially important time to talk about self-esteem .
Um , you know , we and we don't , because we're very , we're very diligent in having aspirations , not resolutions . But a lot of people plan on losing weight , you know , starting in January and all these other different things , and sometimes life just gets in the way . You didn't lose the weight , your life did get in the way and you're holding on by a thread .
Your life did get in the way and you're holding on by a thread . Sometimes we look in the mirror and just don't even know that weather-worn , wrinkled face that's staring back at us . So I think it's safe to say most of us , if not all of us , have been there , and I think it's a good time to remind women listeners about the importance of self-esteem .
Absolutely , and I think it's one of those things where , rather than focusing on what or how or why we ended up disappointed and discouraged , really isn't as important as where do we go from here ? What do we do now ? Because we can't undo the past .
And when I say we can't undo the past , I remind myself too , like I can't defy gravity and I can't deny the clock , you know , and part of that is a reality . But our hope is that , even as we age and we grow and we look back and we learn from the past and move forward with more purpose and more confidence because of it .
So , in that vein , an article by Nathaniel Brandon entitled the Six Pillars of Self-Esteem recently caught our attention . The author suggests that there are six practices that may enhance our self-esteem , and I get to start with the first one .
Well , I was supposed to start with the first one , which is the practice of living consciously , and , denise , I got to admit to you , I really don't even know what that means .
Well , I did some research , as you know I would , to figure out what living consciously means , and what the article says is that living consciously requires us to take the courage to change , and I do think it takes courage to change .
We can get very comfortable in our sweatpants on our couch watching Netflix , instead of living a healthy life , being conscientious about what we're putting in our body or what we're putting on our body , those sort of things , and so making sure that our behaviors and our tendencies and our responses to people and events correlate with what our values are .
So living consciously reminds us to distinguish between a fact and our emotional response . In other words and I've seen this on several , like t-shirts and things don't everything you think , and I whoa boy . That means that really struck home with me
¶ Living Consciously and Self-Responsibility
. I will admit , I guess two weeks ago now , I went down a rabbit hole I mean like all the way down the rabbit hole , like to China , and just could not dig myself back up . I was procrastinating , I was catastrophizing .
I became clairvoyant , evidently , and knew what other people were thinking about me and why they were doing things and why they weren't doing things and that I wasn't getting invited to things and , I'm happy to say none of that was true . Yeah , had that . Yeah , yeah , it was all in my mind , but , um , and it was such a .
When I realized none of that had actually really happened , I thought , my goodness , you did this to yourself , whereas living consciously also means if you have a question or a concern with another person , you say to them Robin , I've noticed we haven't spoken much in the last week . That's unusual for us . Is everything okay ?
Just wanted to check and make sure we're both on the same wavelength or whatever . Sometimes , when we leave it to ourselves to decide what behaviors mean and what thoughts are , and why people are or are not doing things , we can really get ourselves in emotional turmoil .
And so the valuable lesson of the last couple of weeks was that I did that all to myself and that if I had been living consciously , I would have done much sooner what I ended up doing , which was to call my friend and say is everything okay ? I have not heard from you in two weeks , and that was really unusual in our relationship .
She was out of town , seriously , yes , and I had them . You know , I had she and some other friends out to lunch and they didn't invite me and it was her birthday and no one , no one asked me to help celebrate . And yeah she was out of town yeah , she went out of town for a week , came home for three days , went out of town for another week .
So yeah , so . So let me make sure I understand this living consciously is really living in the what is , rather than creating the what-if well , there you go .
Thank you for bringing that to my attention . Talk to you that .
But isn't that the truth ? To like living consciously in these lessons that we learn , like I would just like to learn a lesson , and to learn like the lesson be learned , and like check , move forward Right yeah . But sometimes and I appreciate your honesty , I really do , because I think we have to sometimes remind ourselves of these lessons .
We have to sometimes remind ourselves of these lessons , and you talked about a situation that I think so many of us struggle with is that you know , something changes , there's a shift , we don't know why . So we always fill in the gaps , what our mind does , and rarely , if ever , do we fill in those gaps with a positive story . Right yeah ?
No , rarely , if ever , do we fill in those gaps with a positive story . Right , yeah , no , I was . You know , maybe I should move , because now I don't have any friends in Colorado . It was pathetic , it really was , and all it took was a phone call , that you know . And so , yes , note to self , don't do that anymore .
Yeah , and so yes , note to self don't do that anymore .
Yeah , so just reminding us to distinguish between a fact and our emotional response , reminding ourselves that we should not always believe everything we think . Right , that's right , and I know in counseling you've taught me that too Right ? That just because we feel it doesn't mean that it's true , right ?
Yeah , and I can't even tell you how many people who have said you know , I'm really worried about this . Well , you should think about calling them and just approach the subject so that you can both discuss it . And yeah , I didn't follow my own advice , so there you go . There you go , well thank you .
Thank you for your your good advice , because it really has helped me and many a bind denise . So call me and I will remind you of your advice I'll do it thank you . That works okay , but but to be honest with you , in those two weeks I was probably too darn busy for you to call me , which I think leads perfectly into our second point , I agree .
Second point to help with self-esteem . The second pillar is the practice of self-responsibility and at first you're like self-responsibility , but in an age of I want it all and I want it now , accepting responsibility for our current situations can be difficult .
So that's part of it no , the other part that's impossible for me is to accept that , uh , or take responsibility for my demanding schedule . There you go , there it is there it is there , it is .
So the first one hurt you , the second one's going to hurt me , and the author would say it's easy to sometimes feel like a victim when life's pressures and obligations descend upon us Like they just land on us , like out of nowhere here it comes , like I'm surprised by this and I say this with jest .
However , most of our stressors are a direct result of two things Our inability to set firm boundaries and our inability to be really realistic about our expectations . So , as Denise has said before , no is a complete sentence and I struggle with that .
So I think this is important for me , because my self-esteem is impacted when I'm overcommitted and I under deliver .
Right , and so I think your love language is also doing for others . Acts of service . Acts of service , yes , and I think sometimes those acts accumulate quicker and are more significant than Because I don't set realistic expectations .
It's funny , rachel . Today , rachel my soon-to-be daughter-in-law as we were painting , she said well , what advice would you give to new homeowners ? Think about when you first were homeowners . And what I said , without hesitation , is everything always takes longer and costs more money than you think it's going to . Right , excellent advice , yes , excellent advice .
So this , this episode , is all about we . We know it , this excellent advice , but it's hard to apply to our lives .
So , and as I mentioned , like , you may have been in this crisis and literally may have thought oh , I want to call Robin and unpack this with her , and you would have said , oh , robin has no time to talk to me , and that would have been right . Right , because that is very forthcoming .
That is exactly what I thought . Yeah , I thought , yeah , I wish I could talk to Robin about this , but I don't even know where Robin is . Here , there , everywhere , you have lots of plans and lots of trips and lots of things with your new job and , um , yeah , and that I'm not . That's not a , you know , negative towards you , it was just that .
No , I didn't I like I didn't have the margin to be helpful . Right , that's correct yeah , and so the chance either , which isn't fair well , but I , I know you and I know why you didn't , because you were like she's already maxed .
Yeah , yeah , well , and and I guess for me , I have to reflect on all of that and just for me , the practice of self-responsibility , I think , some things that would help me .
Knowing all that is like planning ahead and and planning ahead ahead because like , uh , my April , like like this got put on the calendar and then this got put on the calendar and then this got put on the calendar . You're like Whoa , that's a full month , and then I switched jobs and all of these things got put on the calendar .
So the things that I had put on the calendar , which were fun things , and then all the responsible things , and then it was just like it blew up . Hey , but I do want you to know we are supposed to be in Tampa today and we did cancel our trip to Florida because we felt overextended .
Look at you , Yay .
Tom . Yay , robin May . It was all good until yesterday , when Tom goes shoot . I forgot to cancel our flights that's when you're too busy that's when you're too busy , when you're like we're too busy to go on vacation , but we can't remember to cancel the flight , so anyway .
I just want to add to that that for me personally , I think the self-reflection about being more responsible is really trying to think ahead , work ahead , get the little things done ahead of time so that I can enjoy the big things .
Yeah , yeah , because that that is what happens , is you start not enjoying anything because everything is just the next task to get finished , and that has been the story of April . Yeah , and you these are . You have some pretty , very big milestone events coming in . You want to be able to enjoy those wholeheartedly , wholeheartedly , wholeheartedly , yes .
So so now we fix both you and me , so that's good news . The third pillar of self-esteem is the practice of living purposefully .
So kind of hits us both in the tummy , I think I would say you know , most of us go through the motions a good percentage of the time and , rather than living purposefully , we may be just existing rather than living , or have our schedule so full that we're not enjoying anything . We're just in the eight to five hamster wheel . Get stuff done .
And it says , in order to live purposefully , it's important to daydream , spend time in reflection , contemplate what brings purpose and joy to your life . And I was like , well , yeah , if you had time . That's exactly what I thought when I read that . I was just like those are great ideas if you don't already have 75 other things to do .
But I think that's the purpose of this article . So it asks what are your goals ? What deeply inspires you ? What ignites your soul ? They suggest make a list of five things you'd love to do and then slowly , systematically , work towards achieving those goals . And I've read this many places .
You know the time passes whether you do what you planned on or not , but even if all you did was take baby steps towards your goal , at least you're getting . You're moving forward rather than not getting anything finished .
And I think the living purposefully to , certainly in my experience , and working with folks at end of life , care , end of life , you know , boy , it's so true . People aren't talking about what they , how much they loved their job or how much they loved doing what . You know all the materialistic things that they had or places that they went .
I was reminded when I read this article about the movie Steel Magnolias . I don't know if you remember that it's the best . Made you laugh and cry . Yeah , and they're talking about their friend who died , and I have no idea why I remember this , but I remembered it .
They said she wasn't living , she was only breathing and I was like , yeah , that's what they're talking about living purposefully .
Yeah , Can I throw something in about that ? Yeah , that has just like been on my heart today . So recently I heard an amazing sermon by one of our pastors about .
It was really about anxiety and then about social media , and he said something along the lines of you know , like my mom started smoking before we knew that cigarettes were bad , and we all started using smartphones and social media before we knew it was bad . But now we know it's bad and what are you going to do about it ?
And to me , that is the biggest like when I think about living purposely , which is very , very important to me , and I'm very passionate about things like good or bad . We don't miss an episode of this podcast because we're committed and passionate about like people come on Tuesday morning looking for the podcast and we don't want to disappoint them like that .
This is part of our purpose , right , right , and there's a lot of things like that that I'm very passionate about . But when I think about just going through the motions , what comes to mind is when I am sitting waiting for something right , I don't even know . Maybe I am sitting waiting for something right , I don't even know .
Maybe I'm sitting at a doctor's office , or maybe I'm in line to at the drive through to get my coffee . Like , why is it that I ? I feel a need to pick up my phone and start flipping through social media ? Like it , it I that is not living purposely , it is just existing . And so I personally feel challenged , like when you talk about reflecting .
Like what would it look like and how can I make baby steps to not being so addicted to my phone ?
Well , it's interesting that you say that , because last week I took Facebook off of my cell phone , I took Instagram off of my cell phone , I took the games I play off of my cell phone because the same sort of thing . And so last week was sort of an experiment , when I would be sitting at a stoplight I would do some meditative , breathing Right or looking .
I mean , this time of year in Colorado is just magnificent , and I'm sure it is in Missouri too . All the forsythia bushes are blooming and the crabapple trees , and it's so beautiful there's no reason to be looking . And then you're on your phone in the car .
Right , right , exactly , yeah , exactly . Well , maybe we can unpack this further . I think this is a whole episode about how to . How can we break the addiction that we have to our cell phones ? And why would we want to ? But for me , I know that with my cell phone in my hand , I am not living life to its fullest .
I agree , and yes , I will put that on our topic list .
Okay , fabulous . Next is the practice of personal integrity is the next self-esteem pillar in the article . Integrity is defined in the article as the integration of ideals , convictions , standards , beliefs and behaviors . So how do all of those things come together ?
When our behavior is congruent with our professed values , when ideals and practices match up or , like I like to think about it , when we walk the talk , we have integrity .
And I'm going to follow Denise's lead and suggest that we spend some time in self-reflection on this specific idea of personal integrity , because I think you know everybody says , oh , I have integrity , right ? I mean , I think most people would say , oh , I have integrity , but really , what does that mean for you ?
So you know , spending time writing down your ideals ideals , not ideas ideals your convictions , your beliefs , what are your guideposts for your life , or your guideposts for your life , and then keep that list readily available so that when you're faced with a difficult situation , you can review that and say , oh , am I in alignment , right ?
This is what I say , or is important to me Is that the way that my behavior reflects . Is that my ? Are my words reflecting that ? Is my heart reflecting that ? And really I think it can help us with our yeses and our nos , and I think it also can help self-correct when they are in an alignment
¶ Building Self-Esteem Through Acceptance
. I know one I had a job a couple of years ago and I enjoyed it , but I just didn't have enough work to stay busy and I think I couldn't ever figure out why I didn't .
You know what was wrong , but to me what was wrong was I say I'm a hard worker , you know , and all of these other things around using the skills that God's blessed me with to to make the biggest impact that I can make for an organization , all these things that are , I say , are my cornerstones , especially professionally .
And then you really don't even have the opportunity for those two things to align . I just finally had to realize . That's why I'm unsettled . That's what's wrong . It's just they're not cohesive .
Right . Well , and the thing that I like about this section of the article is they're talking about personal integrity .
So you can certainly have integrity with other people , with your word , with keeping promises , keeping responsibilities , obligations , whatever , but what about what you said you will do for yourself , and are you letting yourself down and not prioritizing what you know is best for you ?
And I think that that's really important because I would say , 90 percent of us don't even know what's best for us .
That's true . I agree with that , all right . Next is self-assertiveness , and I think that word assertive oftentimes catches people off guard because they have a tendency to think aggressiveness and assertiveness is the same thing , and it's not .
Aggressiveness is described as being likely to attack an act of aggression , to attack an act of aggression , and assertiveness is defined as behaving confidently , not frightened , to say what you want or believe , and assertiveness is about confidence , self-assuredness .
Practicing self-assertiveness is to live authentically , to speak and act from your innermost convictions and feelings as a way of life . So that goes back to what you just said . But do people really know what their innermost convictions and feelings as a way of life are ? And I think those things may change over time .
You know when we're a young professional and then we have a young family and then we're in midlife , and so I think those things change . But I think it's , it is really important for us to know those things about ourself .
Do you consider yourself assertive ?
No .
Do you consider me assertive ? Yes , okay .
I do . I see you and maybe it's not the right words I definitely see you as an extrovert . You are on and when you are on it is absolutely just magic . Like you said about the women's conference , you know you were the emcee and you got to be there and be a part of all that . I love to be in the seats I do . I love to be on the bleachers .
You know , like watching you , watching people that are really confident and just have a very strong presence . I love watching that , but I don't want to . I couldn't be that person . That's just not me .
Interesting and I . One of the things that I will never forget about you is when you would come to get me in the lobby for our counseling .
When I just met you and you just had this poise about you in this , in this confidence , as you walked me down the hall to your office and I always , like immediately , was attracted to that and thought , oh , like this woman's got her craft together and I want to be more like her .
Like there was something about you that was magnetic in a way , that I wanted to be like you .
Well , and in my professional role ? Yes , I am confident in my professional role . You know , I went to school a long time and I have a lot of experience and I feel very comfortable in that role . But just personally , no , I'd rather be in the bleachers watching , watching other people shine .
This week I my . So I have borderline between being assertive and maybe slightly aggressive . So I have to work on that sometimes . Because I this week I was at a meeting and a meeting we're planning a party for adults .
Maybe we're talking about like , oh well , maybe we could get these things or do that and have this as a party favor and that as a party favor . And I didn't wait for someone to say Robin , what do you think ? I just said we are not having a party for 10 year olds . Adults don't need party favors . That's just my personal opinion . Oh , how did that go ?
Well , they accepted it . Well , god love them . Cause I was like oh my gosh , robin , could you like ? Is there a nicer way ? I could have said that . So I'm constantly working on . I being assertive is one thing , but you know , that means I can always take a step back and say what is there ? Is there a softer way ? Maybe I could say that .
I think we could all benefit from that habit . You know we've all been there . You say something and then you think , oh my gosh , I can't believe that just came out and there's no like , let's rewind yeah .
Back in the tube . It's like toothpaste , yeah .
That's right , yeah , and we don't have editors for that . We have an editor for the podcast , but , yeah , not for real life .
Exactly . Thank goodness for Jordan , yeah , okay , so the last principle of self-esteem is the practice of self-acceptance . I can barely spit it out , self-acceptance . So let me ask you this why can we readily see the good in others but not in ourselves ? I mean , as a counselor , do you have an answer for that ?
Well , I would say , not as a counselor , but you know , as a child we were raised not to be braggadocious , you know , and not to try and get other people to notice you , to really accept your gifts and to feel confident in them can be hard for people .
Yeah , I do see that and I think that for me personally , that it's what makes that okay . Like oh look , I'm really good at whatever it is you fill in the blank , right Is saying is reframing that Like .
I'm so grateful that God gave me the gift of Like and that it is all a gift from him , like every good thing , including every good attribute that he gave you or that he gave me Like , it is a gift from him and it's because we were made in the image and likeness of him , so like , in our own little way , we get to reflect his awesomeness and that , to
me , is like , so cool and that makes me want to be awesome , because it's not me being awesome , it's him being awesome through me which gets me fired up . Like that I can get passionate about just saying , oh , you know , if I work a little harder and I do a little better , I'll .
I can accept myself , right , like that doesn't feel good , but recognizing that that each of us do have these things , so on . In that vein , I will challenge each of us , each of us , to stop . Take out a piece of paper , or you can take out your phone in the notes section , right ? So I'm not anti-smartphone , because , like it organizes my life .
So let's be real about that . But whatever you want to write with , write down everything you love about yourself , everything you love , and I hope that it's pages long , not lines long , but pages long . So maybe it's that you're like you know what I'm smart , you know it's your intellect .
Maybe you could say I really am kind , I really do care about other people , or I'm exceptionally patient . I will not be writing that down , denise , but you should write that down on your list .
I was trying not to register a look of any kind at that statement , because I have very expressive eyes .
You do , you do and I do struggle with being patient , yeah so , and even list things that , okay , well , I accomplished this and I accomplished that , and maybe even that will , if you kind of do like rewind . Well , how did I accomplish that , what ? What is it about the gifts and talents that I've been given , or you know what ?
Maybe it is that I worked really hard for that goal and it's okay to feel really good about , uh , setting a goal , working hard to achieve it .
So yeah , well , and if you can't think of anything about yourself , think about what others would say about you .
Uh huh .
What do you hear ? People say about you yes , yeah , yeah , and if that resonates , then put that on the list .
Absolutely . That's a great idea . I love that Because , to be honest with you , it's easier for me to understand not understand . It's easier for me to believe other things . There are things that other people say about me than I say about myself .
I know Me too . That's why we're working on our self-esteem .
Well , we're working on it together , so make your list . I would even encourage you to share your list with somebody that you can trust , or send it to us . Or send it to us . We would love that .
We would love to see your list . Yeah , and we won't tell anyone and we won't share what , but you know we may share anonymously what people may say , but we're always , we're always hoping that you'll share what you learned or what you heard or what was meaningful to you .
Right .
Podcast .
Yeah , so you can email those at theproblemwithperfect at gmailcom , and we would love to hear from you even about the process of how really easy this is , this little simple assignment of writing down what you love about yourself .
Yeah , we're tasking you on this one . We are Well , and I think you know we've been reading poems or different readings at the end of several of our episodes and I thought of this one when we were working through the self-esteem episode and I thought you know what ? This is just perfect for today .
So it's a good close .
It's actually by Marianne Williamson and it says our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate . Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure . It is our light , not our darkness , that most frightens us . We ask ourselves who am I to be ? Brilliant , gorgeous , talented , fabulous . Actually , who are you not to be ? You are a child of God .
Your playing small does not serve the world . There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you . We are all meant to shine , as children do . We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us .
It is not just in some of us , it is in everyone , and as we let our own light shine , we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same . As we are liberated from our fear , our presence automatically liberates others serve the world .
So for everyone out there that's listening , stop playing small , stop shrinking to make other people feel adequate . You are meant to shine and it is in each and every one of us . So , on that note , go out and be wonderful , shine your light and we will be so excited to chat with you next week . Thanks for listening to the podcast . We're honored .
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Do you love a good book , so do we . So join us for the Problem with Perfect Book Club . If you'd like more information about what we're reading this month and how to join us for the virtual discussion , please email us at theproblemwithperfect at gmailcom .
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And while you're there , make sure you've subscribed to the podcast so you never miss an episode , as always a special shout out to our editor , jordan Overkamp , for making us sparkle . And remember , there's always enough grace for you today , so be sure to give it to yourself .
