Does Your Career Help You Love Yourself?

It's actually the second of our three episodes in our series about Love and Valentine's Day .

Like , yeah , all of us are like that's , that's thanks . But I'm curious if they're accounting for overtime hours , right , because we're in America and we all work too hard , probably , but that is roughly 90,000 hours of work over your lifetime , so that's meaningful numbers , right ?

So today we're going to talk about how we can make the most of our time , since we're spending so much time working .

And really , the goal of this episode when bringing it back to self-love , denise , like you said , is one of the ways we can love ourselves as well is knowing when something's healthy for us , when it's not , if it's serving us in the direction that we're going .

So my goal is for whoever is listening to this to walk away and have at least one or two pieces of information that's going to help them really steer their life in the right direction when it comes to their career , because that's so much of your time , right that it's not worth wasting .

So we're going to really get into it today , and I would love for us even to start by explaining what it is that we do , because I don't know if everybody knows and if we're going to be talking about career , we might want to give her a credential . So , robin , you want to kick us off , sure ?

I took a little detour and did . I did ministry full time for a couple years and then actually came back to pharmaceutical sales and I currently work in the rare disease space .

Well , my longstanding joke is that I used to work in human resources and then I did an internship for my degree working with end-of-life patients , and then I went back to human resources and realized now I was just working with people that I wanted to kill and that was not a good thing , and so I decided to switch careers , go to college for 23 years and get

my doctorate in end-of-life care . So I am currently . I have a private practice in grief counseling .

So I also made a switch and went into doing more of video storytelling and then marketing , which now led me into the world that I'm in today , which is in marketing and sales . And what's interesting is that I'm actually in the senior living industry . So like you , denise , you're an end-of-life care .

I am also passionate about helping senior living residents live their best life . So fun mix between all of us , but do love that we all have , like , different perspectives here .

In fact , the other day I was somewhere and I was talking about you , rachel , and I knew the name of your company , but I was like , ah , and so I did a quick Google search and I was like I learned so much about what it is you actually , what your company does , like I knew what your role was , but yeah , so you do good work .

Both of you do good work , as do you so fun .

different generations , we offer different perspectives . So I'm less than 10 years into my career . Robin , you said you're 20 ish something . Yeah , yeah , yeah . And then , denise , are you 30 ish something ?

So let's all learn from each other today too , and I won't be intimidated . I'm like hopefully I can have something to offer , even though it's only been a few years for me .

I was a single parent when I was in my careers either HR or the medical side and the biggest priority was that I could make a living to support myself . After that it was to be able to be there for my children's programs and when they were homesick from school and things like that .

So initially I wasn't looking at a career as much as I was looking at a way to make enough money to be a good mom .

When I think about my career , I had a short career before I had children at a newspaper , and then I had babies and got my masters and did some teaching and then then re-engaged . So I really consider my career starting after I had kids .

And I have to tell you what motivated me the most was some security , because Tom had just lost his job and when he went back to work he took a significant pay cut and just that feeling of like , oh my gosh , like we were this close .

You know not really , but you know just we didn't have a lot of wiggle room and so we decided at that point that we would both work and our goal would be to try to save one income and spend the other and not spend the other , but to live off one and to save and to have fun on the other .

So I would say security was really my biggest career motivation at the beginning , but it's it's kind of shifted but kind of not like that's still like the biggest thing that I'm working for now and I feel like you know how many , how many dollars are enough .

Just one more , one more dollar and then maybe I can retire Not really , I mean , I still have several good years left , but but financial security and that elusive feeling of signing financial security , you know , is a big motivator .

Is that security Just because I think when you're younger in your career , you really are starting your life Like my husband and I are trying to buy a house , and so that's a huge motivator for me is what is going to set us up for success .

Another thing that I know was a focus for me right away was I almost looked at the very end goal and thought how can I work backwards to get there ? And that was something that was a priority for me but also was very daunting for me to think about at the time and a little bit overwhelming .

Now I have more peace and understanding that there are many ways to get to where you want to go , and it's okay to take risks , but I still want the security . That has not changed . Actually , I think I went that more than I did when I started my career .

I was more like whatever , because I didn't really realize how the world worked to the full extent that I do now . Now like , oh yeah , that's important .

Overall , I think in the last four years we've seen a 19% increase in overall inflation and I know I have felt this sense of wait , wait , wait , wait . Things are costing more . It's like the financial security has felt more elusive lately . The goalpost keeps moving and it's definitely felt like that as of late .

So , and I think about people like you that are starting out in their lives and buying very expensive things . Like you know , a starter house in Kansas City shouldn't cost $350,000 . That that's unbelievable to people like Denise and I that like wait , what A starter home . People like your first home . You know I'm saying so .

You don't have the same goals . I can honestly say that I consider my profession a calling , not a career , and because of that I can choose to see people on a sliding scale or I can see people for free if I want to do that , to give someone some assistance . So it's I have my house now . I have my car , I have my 401k .

You know , I'm just sort of I'm cruising right now , which is pretty nice .

How many kids do you have ? Where do you live ? How often do you go on vacation ? What do you provide for your parents ? Long list of questions and then think okay , now , what kind of job or career path do I need to embark on in order to make that happen ?

Because I think what my generation tended tends to lean toward is do whatever you're passionate about . Oh , what are you excited about ? And I think that you want to enjoy your job for sure , and you don't want to hate your life every day .

But at the same time , the older I get we all know I can be always say I'm 29 now it's like the more I'm realizing how expensive it costs to be alive and how much you have to pay for that . I just didn't know when I was younger , when I was trying to decide what I wanted to do with my life , and so that's what I tell people .

I'm saying think about what it is that you want to do , and work backwards and do something that , yes , you're good at , but it's also going to afford you what you want that vision to be .

But then I do think , and I always encourage people , don't be afraid to change . You know , if you are absolutely miserable and you have given this your best shot , even if you have to keep being miserable , go to school part time and get a new focus as far as a career .

And I think , denise , you're right that a lot of and I have friends who are experiencing this now they have they're not happy with their career , that they've chosen , but they're like , well , I already got the degree , I already have these years of experience and I'm going to start over , and they think is it , is it too late to make that switch ?

They go for it .

You know , like you said , Denise , it's a calling , something that you really and I , you know , I see that in your life , I see that in my son's life . You know you don't go into teaching unless I think it's a calling . Or even nursing . You know , like , like Maddie , I think , I think you know you have to do those things .

But even though it's a calling on your life , it's there are still really hard , crappy days at work .

I think if you've done your first job well , you'll be welcome back .

Okay , well , you might be going and waiting tables for a while , maybe doesn't look as stable , and that's all okay .

And I think what you said is absolutely true when you left someplace , you left it well . When the next opportunity came up , you had that . You had those people to call and say , hey , do you know of any positions that are open ? And if you left well , people are more than happy to give a recommendation for you and those things speak a lot .

But if you don't leave , well , you're kind of SOL , quite honestly .

I mean , I left for a lot less money , but I just felt like it was something that God was calling me to do and my heart , just I wanted to follow that and see where it went , and I'm so glad I did , because you know , I didn't stay there forever and I'm not in full-time ministry now , but what I learned is how to take that part of that job that was

so fulfilling to me and do it where I'm at now and do it in other ways . And really it's part of what prompted Robin May Ministries was that I could afford to do that , to make that investment .

So , but for me it was , yeah , leaving well was super important , because then people want you back Like they're , like we can respect that , we can encourage you , we're gonna root for you , but you know what , if it doesn't work out , you will have a place here .

That says a lot about an organization too .

And then every industry you're in and I think this is a great piece of advice that I wish I would have known sooner it is a small world . It is such a small world so , whether you know , it's your life or your life or my life , like it's a circle .

It's a fishbowl and you know everybody , fish swims together , so people are gonna bump into people that know you , and so it's just not worth being ugly because someone will say to somebody else hey , you know , and you know what it takes 30 years to build a great reputation and it can take one bad moment to tear it all down .

Well , Two weeks doesn't really allow for much of that , but you know , it's whatever you decide is appropriate for your company or your own personal choice .

If you are , I haven't left and not already having something else lined up , and usually they're like let's get going , I want you now . So it's a hard balance . I think I'd say if you can get more time then yes , but it can probably be difficult if you already have your next job lined up . Yeah well .

I really respect everything they've done for me , so I want to give them as much time as possible .

I will also say the flip side of that is emotionally for me it's really hard to give a month's notice , because what I found is like it's a long time to think about , like kind of you have your foot in one place , you don't want to check out , but yeah , and then you don't want to have short timers . So it's that .

And then also for me , like knowing that I'm going to leave these coworkers , because I have left jobs with coworkers that I loved and I mean I just needed to rip the bandaid and get out of there . It was like a slow rip over a month , but it was a little bit of emotional torture for me . But that's just my experience , yeah .

. I did not negotiate my salary . Yes , denise's eyes just got so big , and the reason why was because I thought this eye should be so thankful they're even offering me this job , and who would I be to negotiate or say anything ? And I was uncomfortable .

I didn't know how to negotiate , I didn't know how to ask for more money , and so when I was handed my offer letter , I signed right then and there and suffered the consequences , and thankfully I have corrected my mistake and every single job that I've had since then I have negotiated and continue to advocate for myself financially , because it's not just when you

sign , ladies , it's throughout your entire career . So that's another discussion which we'll probably get into later , but I learned that the hard way for sure , and I probably missed out on thousands of dollars because I wasn't willing to negotiate for myself .

It is hard to say this is what I'm asking for , because sometimes it can feel like oh gosh , but yet that's what you feel like you're worth , and doing your homework ahead of time . I will say that absolutely goes with that . Very ironically , I moved here to Colorado . I'm looking for positions in palliative care .

I'm listening to a radio station NPR , I'll just say it and they're interviewing physicians and other healthcare professionals about the shortage of palliative care specialists in the healthcare field , and so when the company that was interested in hiring me gave me my salary , I was able to say thank you , but there really is a real dearth of people that are trained

in this , and I think that the market bears this for the fact that I do have this experience and this knowledge and this training , and I remember the person that I said it to kind of looking at me like and her remark was well , I'll take it to HR and C and I was like , okay , I'm thinking there's no way .

And when she came back she said we will accept that .

Based on my market research for positions in this area , I was thinking it would be more around X number . Now you want to go top , because don't give them what you really want , because then if you give them just that amount , they're always going to go lower . So you want to shoot for a little bit higher .

And again to Denise's point you're not just saying some random number , you need to actually look at what is true for your market and show you've done your research , and then they might come back and forth . And you need to have your facts lined up about what you bring to the table . So is it that you have 20 years of experience in this field ?

Is it that not only that , but your journalism skills enables you to do X , y and Z that you bring to the table that most candidates do not ? And think about what gives you that edge and when you ask for it , make sure you can back it up with your facts .

And then the other thing I would say is practice a million times with your spouse , with your friend , like whoever it is that's going to be your cheerleader and help you , your mentor , go through that conversation . It's a little less scary once you've done a few run-throughs beforehand .

But the other thing is I had a dear friend and she was actually in sales , so I was on the editorial side , which we all know , which side makes money , right , that's why I went to the dark side . But she took a notebook , much like this one that our viewers can't see , and she had it open . Rachel , did I do this with you one time ?

But she talked about , like you do that , all the things you said like this is what I'm asking for Really . I'm asking for more because I know I'm not going to get it . This is why and she said , you have to pay attention to your body posture when you do that .

You have your notebook open , you lean in , you give that eye contact , you're very slow and deliberate , you ask for that amount and then you shut your mouth , you slowly lean back , you close your notebook and you wait . I love that so much . I know Me too . I still think about it all the time . I mean , it's super powerful .

You engage , you lean back , close your notebook and then you just close your mouth and it's silence . So that's a great piece of the career advice that I got along the way Absolutely .

And I want to say to maybe the moms or the daughters that are listening that have teenagers teach your girls those skills while they're applying for a job at Burger King . That will continue to bode them well as they progress through life and their careers and different things .

But I just don't think we spend enough time and just like you said , robin , women supporting women , that really sharing our experiences , good or bad , encouraging them to do brave things and then supporting them as they go through that process . I mean , I think we just in January here in Colorado .

I think the minimum wage now is $18 an hour and I think , oh my gosh , I can't tell you how long I worked to get to $18 an hour . Of course it was 40 years ago or whatever , but still you can negotiate that .

But the worst that's going to happen is you gain more confidence in advocating for yourself . I mean , you can always negotiate .

You have someone that you work with and you love and you have to let them go to do bigger and better things , okay , and that can be really hard , but we have to do that , okay . So I just feel like I needed to say that Also .

I just want to throw out something that is in my head these days , okay , and that is do I want to do a job that I like with people I love or do I want to do a job that I love with people that I like ? Does that make ?

If you are more looking for the security , like we all mentioned earlier on , then it might be okay to have the job that you love and the people that you like . It just all goes back to what you prioritize as most important in your life .

You know there's not a right answer to that , but it can be a struggle . So any ideas to add to that .

If you're doing something , that you really are motivated and feel like it's filling your cup and you're doing a good thing and people are benefiting from your gifts , then whether you like your people or not doesn't really matter . I don't know .

There's a lot of different avenues and then you can balance out .

Okay , maybe I love the people that I work with , but the balance of work life is a little bit tough , and then you can make an informed decision based off of all the different categories , which I do want to bring up , because this is something that is always a topic of conversation for any time .

I'm talking with a woman in my industry and that's the work life integration , and especially as a woman and a mother , I think it can be really hard . So obviously I'm not a mom , but I would love to hear from the two of you how you found balance between work and also family life and do you have any advice for how to balance it all ?

And I said to her you know , look at the quality of your life right now , look at the quality of your relationships , look at the quality of time that you're spending .

And I do say to women a lot remember that if something happens to you tomorrow , they will have replaced you in a week , and so I think that's it's not that you can't be very devoted and dedicated to your career , but you need to remember that if you're gone tomorrow , they're going to have somebody else in your chair in a week's time . And life goes on .

You have to teach people how to communicate with you Like and so like . No one that I work with during the work day texts me after six o'clock and if they do , guess what ? I'm going to ghost them , unless it's a picture of their kids or their dog , and I want to see those and they're cute .

But if you're asking me a work question after six o'clock , I'm not going to answer you , and it's not because I'm being rude , but it's just . I don't want to establish that precedent that you can ask me or expect me . If you send me an email after five or on the weekends , chances are I'm not going to respond to it till Monday morning at eight o'clock .

And you know , some of the things that I've done is schedule my emails . Even if I respond to them on a Sunday night , I'll schedule them for Monday morning because I don't want people to think , oh , Robin might be working on Sunday night .

No , and part of that is because I don't want to , and part of that is also set an example for other women and other people . Like , our work is our work time and our personal time is our personal time , Because I do think there is no such thing as work life balance as such .

There will be times when we're working harder and putting more into work and then that scale will switch and there'll be times when we feel like , oh , I'm putting more time into my family and this personal thing than my work , and so to me , that's the balance is that you allow the scale to go back and forth and just know that in the end you have to trust

that it's all going to work out .

And if you work for an employer who trusts you , then you feel that you have the flexibility to do that , which I think is a super important part of this whole work life balance is do I work for someone that trusts me that they're going to get what they deserve from me and then allow me to have what I deserve with my family ?

There's a mindset between if you're in management , maybe , or where you're working on the weekend , or you have a thought and so you're like , oh , I just want to get it to them right now because I want to get it out of my head . I'm going to send this email , maybe it's on a Saturday afternoon and it's out of my head , but they don't have to respond .

It's on them if they want to respond or not . I think what a lot of people don't realize is that if you see something come through with your boss's name on it , whether or not you're trying to hold a boundary , you might be like anxious and thinking through it for the rest of that Saturday or you feel like you can't say no .

So just because you have good boundaries doesn't mean that whoever you're sending the email to has good boundaries themselves , and so it's something you can work on . But just be conscious of the fact that if you're scheduling it after hours , they might not have the willpower to tell you no or to wait . They may feel like they have to answer it right away .

But then I also in my ministry job . I will tell you that there was one woman that is in the C-suite , so she's at the table with 11 other men . She has three small children . They're not so small now , but they were Like .

She delivered the third one while I worked there , and so she would put her kids to bed and work from 10 to 2 every night , and so in her department , the young women thought that's what they needed to do to get ahead .

And so you know , I had a lot of conversations with both the woman who was doing that and then the women who were trying to follow her , because we can do better , we can do better , and so just you know and I think I truly believe that if you're talking about work life balance , the people who suffer are your family , your husband , your children .

I feel like that needs to be protected above all else . I really do .

Maybe they have a job that you would be interested in , maybe they're in your industry , maybe you just want to get to know somebody and message them on LinkedIn . Slide into their DMs I promise you it is not weird and just say hey , I'm Rachel , I'm also in the senior living industry . I see that you also are in marketing .

I would love to get to know you better and have a virtual coffee , and I promise you I do this all the time and I have a 90% success rate of people saying yes , that they are willing to do a virtual coffee In 2023 , my goal was to do 50 of them in a year and I did well over 100 and it completely changed my career .

When I go to conferences , people know who I am . I'm able to help in networking , introduce people , have people , help with jobs , etc . It's a way to . It's just like I can't even tell you all the benefits that have come from networking . So I would suggest any woman , no matter where she is in her career , put an emphasis on that .

Don't go into it with an agenda of what you can get from the person . Have a spirit of giving and even if you're young , you never know what you can have to offer them and just ask them questions about themselves . Learn about them . You'll never know what doors will be opened for you by networking .

That's such a part , because a lot of people could say , oh yeah , I'm going to reach out and I'm going to network , but you set yourself a goal and you doubled it . So , yeah , career changing . It was career changing .

Yeah , it doesn't have to be anything I don't know intricate , it can just be just a standard conversation and no pressure , and it really can be beneficial . I love it .

When I say Nike right , we know what Nike is because Nike has such brand awareness and so asking yourself , in that same main , when people think of me at work , what is my brand ? What comes to mind ? What do they think of ?

I was just having a conversation with a former coworker who's interviewing and I said when I think of you , I think of you as the sticky stuff . You're the person on the team that keeps everybody together . You're like the hub in the middle of the wheel . And he said you mean , I'm a great Scotty Pippen , not so much a Michael Jordan and he got that .

So that's his brand . It's just easily identifiable . And so I know what I want my brand to be Like .

I want my brand to be Like I want , when people think of me , they think that she's always positive , energetic , that she's giving to other people , but that she's also innovative and trying to develop new ways of doing things , and also that you know I do it with love and tenderness . So like always be thinking . You're always building your brand .

Every interaction with people , you are building your brand .

And I don't know I mean this is age old stats and research now but it used to be that it took 90 days for an employee to at least just break even with that employee .

So now they know where the post-it notes are and they know they've gotten their desk and computer and laptop and all those other things and they're like , okay , it took six months before they are contributing to the profit of the company .

And so I try and I know Robyn's heard this ad nauseam but you know it's okay not to know where the paper clips are and it's okay not to know who you're supposed to call . And again , knowing that your expectations are much greater than your employers , I think it's keeping that in mind helps a person relax , less stress and then they can be more successful .

I love you both and I love that we got to have this conversation , and also thanks to all of our listeners , who bring us all so much joy . So , ladies , thank you , and we'll be back next week talking about whoo , another tough topic , which is body image and wellness . So you can't wait . Can't wait . See you guys

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