(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Y'all ready to be history? Get started. Welcome. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hello, everyone. To the Pro Audio Suite. These guys are professional, they're motivated. Thanks to Tribush, the best vocal booth for home or on the road voice recording, and Austrian Audio, making passion heard. Introducing Robert Marshall, from Source Elements, and Someone Audio Post, Chicago. Darren Robert Robertson, from Voodoo Radio Imaging, Sydney.
Tech to the VO stars, George the Tech Whittam, from LA, and me, Andrew Peters, voiceover talent, and home studio guy. Line up, man. Here we go. Sound on me. And welcome to another Pro Audio Suite. Thanks to Austrian Audio, making passion heard, and Tribush, don't forget the code, T-R-I -P-A-P 200, to get 200 US dollars off your Tribush. Also, while we've got your ear, we know we have a lot of listeners, and a lot of you haven't subscribed.
And if you would like to subscribe, that will help us a lot with numbers, and also give us the ability to maybe get some really funky new guests. Who knows? Anyway, I was listening to another podcast, which I'll give a plug, Production Expert. I hadn't heard it before, but a friend tipped me into it, and it was really interesting. And they covered quite a lot of topics. One that they kind of dabbled with, and then moved away, was DAWs.
And I know there's some pretty wacky stuff out there that people use. I've been a victim of that. I think my first DAW was Magix Samplitude. I remember that. I never used it, but I do remember it. Yeah, that was, when I think about it now, it's like, well, I don't know what I was thinking. And then the second one I got was Wave Lab, which was part of Vin's build into his PCs.
And now, of course, I've bitten the bullet, jumped across, and I've just set up Twisted Wave on everything, which I'm very happy with. Thank you, Thomas. Well, Robbo's flying an A380 every time we do a show. How's the plane flying today, Robbo? It's on autopilot at the moment. So yeah, it seems to be going OK. OK, good. So how long ago, let's go a little bit of history then. Do you remember when you first started recording and editing on a computer? And what you were using then?
For me, it would have been, oh wow, that's a very good question. It would have been early 2000s, maybe even 2000, maybe 1999. I can't actually remember. Yeah. But it was very early. Yeah. How about you, Robbo? Oh, jeez. The very first DAW that I worked on was DSP. DSP? Triple M in Brisbane. So it would have been like 1992, 1993, around there somewhere. Yeah, that's early. It was hooked up to one of the very first Yamaha automated, little tiny automated consoles. So DSP was an Australian company.
When it folded, Fairlight bought them. I actually used to do, back in the early 2000s, I actually used to do their training for them. When people bought new DSP units here in Sydney, I used to be the dude that went out and did all the training on site for a couple of days with the engineers. So, yeah, it was a really good piece of software. We had it at George Pat's when I was there as well. And, yeah, unfortunately they went under. But, yeah, that's how long, yeah. So, Jesus, what's that?
30 odd years ago, I suppose. Was that a true multi-track DAW environment? It was. It was an eight track. Yeah, eight tracks. Eight tracks of digital audio. So, yeah. And I remember sitting in the production studio at Triple M in Brisbane when I was up there. We got it on a trial and watching the flying faders and everybody. I think the whole radio station sort of circled in and out of the studio to come check out this fancy new piece of equipment. But, yeah, it was good.
I learned on a Yamaha DMC-1000 digital mixing console. Could have been the same model. It probably was. It was installed around that time. They had it at Virginia Tech in the music studio from 92, 93. And I just remember I called it the Lean and Squint 1000. Lean and Squint. Because it had this little blue backlit LCD screen at the top right. And there was so many damn operations you had to do through that little screen. And you're always leaning over and squinting at the screen.
But it had those flying faders. It was super high quality sound. Do you know what I remember the most, though? Coming from analog into digital is just that wow moment when you just realized what a game changer digital audio was actually going to be. After all those years of multitrack and splicing and drop editing and overdubs and all the rest of it, to look at it and just go, holy crap, what can't I do now? That was the thing that always got me.
I had the interim step where I skipped over analog. I played with it and hobbied with it, but I never used it professionally. So I wasn't splicing on splicing blocks and stuff. But when I went to Virginia Tech, we had the digital tape machines, the DA88 from Tascam. And so I went straight to digital tape. But the time where we finally went to a DAW, we were using Sonic Solutions. And that was only for mastering for CD. That's all we used it for. So everything else was done on tape.
And we would mix down to a DAT. And then typically we would take the DAT, load that into Sonic Solutions, and use that to author the disc, the CD-R. I'd go down to the library, to the bookstore, buy one blank CD-R, $15. And your professor would say, burn this at 1x speed. Don't do 2x, because sometimes it screws up. So I remember that. But yeah, Sonic Solutions was the first one I used in school. And then on my own, I remember using for multitrack.
I learned on, I don't know why I stumbled on it, but probably because I was on PC. I stumbled onto Cakewalk. And then Cakewalk became Sonar. Sonar, it changed names or something. And I believe to this day, Sonar is still out there. Sonar X1, X2, whatever the 13 or 14 version it is. And that was what I did. I did a fair amount of multitrack production on Sonar. And then for single or two-track editing and recording, I was using WaveLab.
So I went back to WaveLab on my laptop, and I would use my laptop to record and burn CDs, and I would use it to do live records. I would bring my laptop out to a venue with my, at the time I had a Grace Designs Lunatec V2 stereo mic preamp. Really hi-fi stuff. And I would run that straight into a Digigram sound card that was PCMCIA, and it slid into the side of the laptop. And that's how I could, I did really high-quality stereo records that way in the field.
So those were my earliest dogs that I worked on. And I don't remember when I transitioned out of using Cakewalk. Probably when I went to get, when I first got my Mac, and I was realizing I had to teach a lot of people how to record, and I had to use what was common in our business. So that's when I started learning Pro Tools slowly, and then I started using Adobe Audition and Keep Cool Edit and all the others. What was your first version of Pro Tools then?
Well, I think I first really had hands -on Pro Tools. It wasn't until probably six. Yeah, that's about the time I started, I think. Yeah. That's where it really became like common, more commonplace. That is probably the version of Pro Tools that shipped with an M-Box. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is an OG original M-Box. I believe this would have shipped with Pro Tools 6.0 or 6.4. Something like that. I remember Yatesy, a guy I used to work with at Triple M came in.
Mark Yates, good day, mate, if you're listening. No, I don't want to buy a house in Bondi, Yatesy. Thank you. He came in to work one day on a Monday, and we were just chatting and stuff, and he went, oh, how was your weekend, blah, blah, blah. And the convoy station basically went, oh, mate, I spent the weekend on Pro Tools. And I went, what? You're coming to work? Are you mad? No, no, no. I bought Pro Tools. I've got it at home.
And that was sort of my discovery of the M-Box and all the rest of it. And he was like, yeah, no, I sat at home, and I had some headphones on, and I finished this promo, and I did this, and I did that. I was like, I've got to go get that. So yeah. I remember they had an M-Box. I can't remember what it was called, but it was literally just a USB dongle that plugged into the computer with a headphone jack, just so you could mix on the road.
Since with those versions of Pro Tools, Pro Tools LE, the license was the hardware. You remember that? That's right. They didn't use an iLock. The M-Box was the iLock. You plugged the M-Box in, and away you went. And that all went away with version, I don't remember, 10 maybe. Whenever iLock came out, I remember that. But I've heard of some people using weird DAWs, because it's just what comes free with their interface. Well, everybody's got a DAW these days, right? I mean, let's be honest.
If it's got anything to do with the audio, there's a DAW attached somewhere. Yeah, I guess they want to have control. I mean, to me, developing new software is not a cheap endeavor. So that's what kind of blows me away, is that is it that accessible to find the developers and to fund and develop a DAW that all these companies are making it? Mackie even had one. I think it was called Traction or something like that. Wow. Everybody's got one.
I use Pro Tools Studio, and there was a bunch of free software that came with that, and I finally got around to downloading it the other day. And I was putting stuff on it. And you've got to go to the supplier's website to download the software, obviously. And that's what struck me. There were these plug-in makers that I'd never heard of, some of them, but even they've got a DAW. Download such and such. No, thank you. I'm right.
Thank you. I've got Audacity, I've got Audition, and I've got Pro Tools. I think that's probably got me covered. Thank you, though. Yeah, Akon Digital is one of those, too. Akon makes noise reduction stuff like RX, and they have a DAW, too. And it's actually pretty good. I mean, it's an editor. It's really a Twisted Wave or a Wave Lab competitor. But I've got to say it's pretty good, but it's ugly. It's all, like, yellow and black. Oh, yeah, that's got to be anything unless you're a bee.
Exactly. But RØDE have actually got an editor as well, haven't they? Doesn't that come with the DSP on their USB mics? Oh, I don't know if they have an editor. I haven't looked at that. I haven't seen an editor. They've got a console. Oh, well, I have two apps from RØDE on my dock here. I've got RØDE Central and I have RØDE Connect. And RØDE Connect, I think, is the recorder app that they make for producing, like, a podcast. Yeah, that's it, RØDE Connect. And saying, hey, there's a new version.
Like, I'll do that later. Yeah, RØDE Connect, it's kind of intended to be like a software replacement for a RØDECaster that works with their mics. Yeah, yeah. So it's got the little sound effect buttons. I don't think you're going to hear that, but it's got sound effect buttons. I thought that was me for a second. It can connect with wireless RØDE mics. It's pretty slick, right? And it has a record function. But in terms of a DAW, I don't think I would call it a DAW.
It seems much too simplistic to be a DAW. But that seems like an inevitability based on what we're seeing, is that RØDE will have a DAW at some point. Oh, for sure. For sure they will. Okay, here's a question for you, George. What's the weirdest recorder or DAW, editor, whatever you want to call it, you've ever come across? Well, there's two categories. One of them is using software that's not for audio production as an audio tool. So for that, I would say Final Cut.
I've had a few folks say they use Final Cut for audio. To do audio. Yeah. And those that do usually have a good reason for it. It's that they came from video editing, and so they already knew how to use it. I had somebody recently say that there's a module in Final Cut for voiceover record that's actually a really good voiceover editing or a voice editing tool that comes bundled in Final Cut. I'm like, that's obscure. But they said, well, it breaks down.
It makes it really easy to keep track of clips and organize your clips and it makes it easier to record an audio book. And I'm like, that is obscure. That's weird. But using an audio book in Final Cut, that's different. To be fair, back in the day when you could edit video on Pro Tools, my wife used to do her video editing in Pro Tools because she knew Pro Tools. So I suppose, you know. So could you just simply do cut, like trim head and tail? No, you could edit and paste and all the rest of it.
Was that called media something? I'm thinking like maybe version 9 or version 10, they ended it. Then they realized. We could put it in another bundle and stick that up. So now you can only have one video per session and all that sort of stuff in studio. You've got to go to the next level to be able to have multiple videos. Which is a pain in the ass, seriously.
I mean, for me, when you're doing update versions and shit like that, you've now got to save your session as and import a new video into there. And so there's your session spread across 10 sub-sessions. Well, this whole conversation kind of got triggered because somebody just emailed me saying, Hey, you set me all up using Adobe Audition. And I've got all the templates and everything and the processing chains, whatnot. But now I'm using Luna.
And so can you do all those chains that you made for me over in Adobe Audition? Are they going to work in Luna? And if not, can you make me processing for Luna? And that's kind of triggered this conversation because I was like, Luna? Well, I could. But sometimes when somebody asks me that, I always ask you why exactly. I'm like, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Are you doing it? I mean, some people, frankly, will do it because it literally is free.
There is definitely a contingent out there who will not use Adobe Audition simply on principle. They refuse to pay the subscription. They don't want to do it, and they're going to use anything else they can find so they don't have to use Adobe Audition or pay a subscription. And that is what drives people to use Reaper because it's a one-time buy, and it's very cheap. That drives people to use Luna, and it drives people to use alternatives that are free or that come free with their hardware.
Guys, I mean, if you really are making a living, first of all, use the tool you really know and have trained on and have gotten really good at. Don't keep trying new stuff all the time. And second of all, Luna is a music production tool. So I'm sure someone's going to show me one of these days why it's so amazing for voiceover recording and editing. I'm sure it's going to happen.
It's funny you should bring this up because I did a video the other day for the Just Ask Robbo YouTube page, and I challenged myself to make a podcast opener in Audacity because I kind of figured, well, you know, podcasters want to know how to make their own or anything, and the door of choice is mostly Audacity. Now, I'll be honest. I know my way around Audacity, but I've never used it to make something. Sure. It was an interesting process. It went really well. It came together really nicely.
It works. But the interesting thing was, you know, every sort of four or five key things, there's a thunk, because I'm trying to give it Pro Tools commands, and it's like, hang on, what do you mean? It's like, oh, yeah, sorry, yeah, right, that one. And zooming out when you should be zooming in and all the usual stuff with learning a new door. I mean, I can understand why people might take up a new door because they just want to experiment. But I think you're right.
I think if you're making your living off a piece of software and there's no clear reason why, I mean, because some of these things, you know, you can come across all sorts of weird little sort of intricacies within the software that happen that you sort of you've got to learn along the way, and, you know, you make all those rookie mistakes, make all those rookie mistakes all over again.
Yeah. It's funny, I just had an interview with Keith Urban, and he was talking about playing a guitar, and he's a friend of John Mayer, and John Mayer, he quoted John Mayer, because John Mayer said, you know, it's really interesting when you listen to a guitar solo, you can tell which guy knows that guitar inside out, you can just hear it, because they've lived with each other for so long. And it's the same with any of the tools you use.
The longer you, you know, you're married to that tool, the better you're going to be with that tool. I'm married to a tool. Sorry, tonight, I love you. It starts with a T anyway. Yeah, that's right. I mean, in my opinion, you would have to be a John Mayer to maybe hear that. I don't know, like, who really hears that, you know, a true guitar player, artist will pick up on that stuff.
But it's the same way that, like, us audio engineers pick up on really subtle things that we key off on or get hung up on or, you know, Yeah, it's that intricate knowledge of something that, you know, and I guess for a guitarist, you know how the guitar you like feels in your hand and you know, you know, what the fretboard feels like and you know, you know, the balance of it and all that stuff. And when you pick up a different one, you sort of go, oh, hang on, this feels weird.
You know, or you, as a voiceover artist, you buy a new microphone. And for those first couple of sessions, you're going, what's that that I'm hearing? Yeah, so what's the thing about, like, does this sound okay? Or is it, what am I actually hearing now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Should I be trusting my headphones? Yeah, do I trust myself that this is sounding okay? Yeah, exactly. And I think that's the thing.
I mean, when you're doing it day in and day out, you just get that sort of deep-seated knowledge. I mean, it's like the classic line in Taken, that movie, where Liam Neeson's sitting in his French mate's apartment and he's, you know, he stands up and he's about to shoot Liam Neeson and Liam Neeson, you know, basically says, you know, shoot me.
And it's like he pulls the trigger and there's no bullets in his gun because, you know, he's been sitting behind a desk for so long now, he doesn't remember the weight of a loaded gun compared to the weight of an unloaded gun. Liam Neeson, all that sort of stuff. And it's the same sort of thing, you know, I suppose. Well, it's interesting because, you know, because I do a lot of promo stuff as well, the majority of the work, because it is promo, is on the 416.
Or I should say 416, now that's become part of the vernacular of this industry. And the 818. The 818, yes. So anyway, I used the OC 818 yesterday for a session. And it's funny because when I use it for, like, if I'm doing something like an ad or whatever, or something long form, you've always got that little bit of doubt. It's like, oh, I've set the levels properly because I haven't used this for a while, you know. Yeah, that can slow you really down.
If you're always seeking, I don't know, some of us do spend a lot of time seeking ways to save a lot of time. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I've been there and done that with CRM, customer retention management, whatever the hell it's called, relationship management softwares, and just you name it, on and on. And I'm like, my God, how much time did I spend trying to figure out ways to be more productive? It doesn't will out.
That's why Twisted Wave sticks around year after year after year, is he's never trying to reinvent the wheel. He's not trying to make anything revolutionary. He just adds in useful things little by little, drop by drop. And I think it's the way these new features are dripped in, like a drip feed, you know. It's like you get time to learn what they do, and you get time to internalize them, or you get time to decide whether you need them or not, right?
But when there's like, everything's new, we did a whole new user interface, and we can do these 70 new features, it's like, who the heck is going to internalize and learn all those new things in one shot? It's overwhelming. Yeah, something over the years that you learn over time and get nuanced. And then there's also the idea, I've heard people say, well, I want to try something different because I can't do this.
Like, I interviewed somebody today, and she said, well, I record everything in Twisted Wave, and da-da-da-da-da. And then I go into Adobe Audition, and I use the compressor. It's called Simple or Single Channel Compressor. And I just use a little bit of compression, and I'm like, why do you? I didn't get into it because it wasn't germane to the interview, but I wanted to say why. And I knew why.
And it's because in Twisted Wave, when you look at the plug-ins, there is not a plug-in in there called compressor. And so if you've been watching a lot of YouTube, and she was a younger person who's learning through YouTube University, and she knew that a compressor is a good thing, and she looks in Twisted Wave and looks at the effects, and there's nothing in there called compressor. But then she hears there's a thing called a compressor in Adobe Audition, right?
So it's like, it's what you don't know. You know, it's like you might think, oh, Twisted Wave is too simple. It's too basic. It can't possibly do everything I need it to do. And then you go seeking elsewhere for other tools and other systems. Now you've added more steps, more cost, because now she's paying for an audition license. And it's not if, I mean, I just, I wanted to be like, I wanted to reach the screen. Listen, there's a compressor in your Mac. It's already built in.
You just don't know it's there. And it almost makes me harken back to the Audacity conversation we had where the compressor just, you know, replaced the old version and created a whole thing. Like, Thomas could seek out another compressor and make that, not replace, but supplement what's in there. But because he's just using what Apple includes for free, and Apple, for whatever reason, doesn't have a compressor in their default audio units, then there's no compressor.
But there's the Dynamics processor in that. That's a compressor. Which is a compressor. Yeah, it's just not that intuitive. So, yeah, it's quirky things. And because I've spent so much time learning the quirks and features of what Twisted Wave does and what the audio unit's plug-ins do, et cetera, I'm getting every last bit of juice out of these things. And where a lot of people wouldn't do that, their first thing would be to go get another plug-in. Go buy another package, another bundle.
You know, and just constantly seek out. So, I find that kind of interesting. I find Twisted Wave does way more than I ever need. It's a recorder. It's a recorder and edit, and that's it. Yeah. I mean, Audacity is almost... Yeah, I don't need anything else. Audacity is overkill compared to Twisted Wave. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Well, there you go, another free door. Audacity. Yeah, yeah. The F word. Yes. You know what that leads to. Yeah. Out the door.
Well, that was fun. Is it over? The Pro Audio Suite. With thanks to Tribus. And Austrian Audio. Recorded using Source Connect. Edited by Andrew Peters. And mixed by Vudu Radio Imaging. With tech support from George the Tech Whittam. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and join in the conversation on our Facebook group. To leave a comment, suggest a topic, or just say g'day, drop us a note at our website.