Personal Statement and Interview Tips with Pre-PA Coach, Peter Alfano, PA-C

I am honored today to have our guests on the pre PA club as one of our very own PA platform coaches. His name is Peter. We see so much praise for Peter all the time in the Facebook group on social media. He's just a really, really great prepay coach. So we're talking about how we feel about personal statements and interviews, and it's a really great conversation. Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast. If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Savannah Perry. Let's get to it. What's up guys. We are getting back into the swing of things with some new podcast episodes. I have some really great interviews coming up, including today's we're interviewing some of the PA platform coaches. So today we're talking to Peter. And y'all, I can't even explain to you how much of a rockstar Peter is like. He's been with us for a while now, a couple years. And. He just helped so many students. And it's just awesome. So we're going to talk a little bit about his job. He had a previous podcast episode a while back that you can listen to if you want more about like his story, but today we're really getting into, like, what do we see when we're editing statements? What do we see in mock interviews? What mistakes are people making? What stands out. And talking all through that. So. I hope you enjoy hearing from Peter. And I appreciate him taking the time to talk to us. We are almost a month out from the next Caspus cycle opening. And that is wild. So we officially know now that Casbah for the 20, 24 to 2025 cycle. We'll open on Thursday, April 25th. That means it is time to get your ducks in a row. If you are wanting to help with your personal statement now is a great time to submit for editing. So that you have time to work on it before it's time to actually turn it in. Uh, if you are a re applicant and want to go over your application, we have our prepay counseling options for that. But just remember you can use the code future PA for a discount on any of the services the books can be found on Amazon. So that's the personal statement guide the interview guide and then our pre PA workbook. So check all that out. If you need more help. And then of course our free resources, everything that's on the podcast, the videos on YouTube. Uh, this video also is already on YouTube. If you'd like to watch the interview, instead of listen. And then tons of blog posts, tons of information and things to just help you out. So, yeah, we're here to help you hopefully, uh, make this process a little bit easier. Uh, pre PA academy also has been going great. If you are interested in a group coaching setting, you can still join pre PA academy. And that is where we meet four times a week with different sessions, teaching group work, um, Q and a office hours to help make sure your application is ready to go. Everything's recorded if you can't attend live. But, uh, we did not close registration for that. It's still available. We just, um, are already in the program since it started in February. So, yeah. Let's get into hearing from Peter. And as always, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. You can find me on social media, feel free to email. Check out our Facebook group. And, you know, we want to try to make this as stress-free as possible. We're just now getting into essay season. I thought it would be fun if we just talked about some of the things, good and bad, that we see. Do you have a favorite between essays and interviews or do you flip flop? I flip flop. I definitely prefer interviews only because there's the face to face component. And then, with the essays, I just find myself getting distracted sometimes, versus in an interview you can't get distracted, it's gonna be an hour no matter what. Versus an essay can take 45 minutes to two hours, depending on what I'm doing on the side, but I do enjoy doing both, and it's, they're different, but. Very good, both of 'em. Yeah. I feel like I'll like do a bunch of essays and then get burned out and be like, oh man, I miss interviews and then I do interviews and yeah, do a bunch of, I'm like, oh man, I miss essay. I need a little bit of both. Let's talk essays first. We're doing pre-PA Academy and part of that is where we do live editing, and so we've been going through a lot of different. Essays, which is fun because it's just paragraphs from each one. So in one of the sessions the other day, it was cool because I got to see different types of essays. So we had one that was just jump in, really straightforward, tell us why they want to be a PA. And they just started with that. And then there was another one that started with a very intense EMT story about delivering a baby and all that jazz and being in the ambulance and sirens and all that. And then there was another one that was super personal and talked about growing up with some of their household dynamics and how that led them to exposure to medicine and then how that led them to meeting and learning more about the profession. So I was thinking about, like, those are three different styles of essays, and none of them are wrong. I'm interested to know if you have a preference of when you read an essay, which type you're just like, Oh, I love that type of essay. This is so good. I find it's good to have all those elements, but sometimes what will happen is a student will spend too much time talking about a story, or too much time talking about their healthcare experience, and it'll take away from some of the other aspects you want, but it's good. I think what, like, would be a perfect essay to me would be, start off with, like, a compelling story about a patient contact experience. Then maybe drift into, like, how you discovered PA, what got you going on that PA school journey. Then transitioning to patient contact hours, and then having a good amount of the specific reasons why you chose PA. And then wrapping 000 characters, but I have seen students do it really effectively, and usually at the end of those essays I'll write, this is Make these little changes and then you're all set basically. I've had a few of those too and they're almost harder to edit when they're really, when they're really good because you're kind of like, oh man, you're doing everything right. I've had a few students email back be like, is this, are you sure? Are you sure this is good? I'll have somebody take a second look and stuff and I'm just like, yeah, I mean, we wouldn't tell you it was ready to go if it wasn't. I think I like the third option when they're just like very personal and Telling their story without trying to be too dramatic. I think there's just a fine line there between. Too much detail, too much description in telling your story. It's so hard when you don't have a lot of characters to work with, unfortunately. To keep it under that kind of limit that we're looking for. As far as essays you've edited, what are some mistakes you see often? Depending on the student, sometimes there'll be a lot of spelling, grammar, punctuation, sometimes not at all. I was an English tutor in college, so I like jump at that stuff. I can't skip over a grammar error if I know it's there. It's distracting. It is distracting, yeah. And then I feel like I'm missing stuff on purpose. So I always, like, have to mention those. But then sometimes you won't have any of those. depending on how well it's been edited before. But I think the most common thing that I find myself writing at the end of an essay is that a student didn't talk enough about actually why they want to PA. They don't give enough specifics. Sometimes, unfortunately, they'll talk a lot about how they discovered PA or their experiences, even working alongside PAs. Uh, and their own patient contact. Then I'll get to the end of the essay I still don't know why they actually chose PA. Like, what are the specific reasons, things unique about the profession? So that's the most common thing that I'll write at the end is just, you have to literally say why you want to be a PA in the essay. I agree that it's easy to talk about the PA profession because it is such a great profession. But a lot of what I find students say could be applied to a lot of other professions too. So if you could say the same thing about nursing or going to med school or dental school, then. That doesn't tell me why you chose. PA versus those things. Our previous episode, which I'll link to from a while back when we spoke, but I would like to know again why you chose PA and then why family medicine? I had always known for a while I was interested in healthcare just because I had interest in, in science and just enjoyed that. I had good experiences as a patient who originally was thinking optometry. I don't know why, that was just an interest of mine, I thought it would be good. And then in a health occupations class, which I took in high school on my journey to become an optometrist, I learned about PA and at that point just became a lot more interested because obviously as a PA you have a much more broad scope than what you do in one particular, like in optometry for example, and the ability to move between specialties of course. So then after that I started looking into what did I do to need to be a PA, what were Pre requisites, those types of things. Got my EMT certification in high school. Fortunately, that health occupations class gave me that opportunity so I could get started with patient contact pretty early on. And then went to university of New England for medical biology pre PA. They actually, it's a pretty medical based school. So they have a specific pre PA major, which I took. And then, uh, got into the CMS MCPHS for PA school. At the time, I didn't really know what specialty I wanted to do, so to have that option open to me was something that was definitely drawn to. The collaboration with the physicians was something I was drawn to, something I still enjoy. I don't ever feel bad going up to the physician and be like, This is what I see, this is what I think we should do, do you approve? Do you agree? So that was something I was definitely drawn to, even in high school. I did And I always tell students, I don't recommend talking about this in interviews, but me personally, but the fact that it was two years as opposed to four years of medical school and residency and fellowships, it was honestly something that I was drawn to. Although I usually tell students not to talk about that in an interview, but in all honesty, that was something too. Yeah. I mean, it's part of it. I explain those as that's a perk, but is it like a reason? It's fine that it's like a great part of it, but it shouldn't be your main reason that you're wanting to do this. For me, it was the team where the collaboration and like, Seeing that while you still got to work with patients and make decisions and be really involved with their care, I found that so appealing. Shadowing is how I saw it and said, Oh, yeah, like I think I fit what this person's doing. They're doing what I want to do. Let's do it. Did you always think family medicine or did that come later? You're going to feel like you're in a mock interview right now. No, that's okay. No, I did not think family medicine initially at all. At the time I was almost, And it like sounds silly now because I love it so much but at the time I was almost a little overwhelmed by it by having to know every single spot someone could walk in like anything any of you could have any degree of complexity in any of your patients and at the time I was a little almost turned off by that I thought that I would be better finding something I really liked and getting really good at it. So I was originally thinking orthopedics. I thought it was going to specialize And then I did a family medicine rotation. I did an orthopedic rotation I just preferred it's just one of those things sometimes you learn Something's just not a good fit for you and I found the family medicine like I knew at the end of that rotation Okay, this is definitely what I want to do just based on the relationships with patients over the years I have some patients at my practice that have been coming there for Almost 40 years with the same owner who retired a few years ago, um, that I was drawn to. I learned that I actually did like the diversity of it as much as I thought I wanted to specialize. I actually enjoyed getting to learn a little bit of everything and then having the specialists as a second line if there was a situation that needed more help or more support. And then it's a cushy lifestyle too. And I know with dermatology is probably similar, nice hours, no overnights or holidays for us. So it's very nice. That was part of the job, dermatology. And I like Similar things at this point, I have patients I've been seeing for almost the 10 years I've been in practice, people that I started seeing when they were nine and now they're in college. And it's just, it's wild. Like it's so cool. When I see them on my schedule, it just is mind blowing. I'm like, I can't believe I've been doing this long and. That you're now like a full adult. That part's really cool. And part of why I like dermatology, I think one thing that's helpful is hearing, and that's part of why we do the podcasts from PAs and people who have been through it about what they do and what they like, because it is easy to read about the profession and. It sounds cool. It sounds good, but you can only get so much from reading about it. Any other big mistakes, big things that you look for in an essay? I like when they go in chronological order. That's like a personal thing that I just want it to flow where it's like, I can follow it easily. I definitely like that too. If they're not jumping around or going out of order, those types of things. I think other mistakes is sometimes students will have The paragraphs will almost be too long. Sometimes you'll have a whole paragraph to talk about one idea and you're almost halfway done the essay. Sometimes it'll be the opposite thing. A paragraph will be too short. It's two sentences and you're already jumping to the right idea, like, can we work this into another paragraph? And then other just silly things like using contractions, using slang, using Second person pronouns like you like none of that stuff should be in a formal essay Those are very common mistakes that i'll see Not putting a conclusion. They'll just like end the essay abruptly, please put it It doesn't have to be long, but I want a conclusion like I want yeah that kind of wrap up Um, have you ever had I think this happened last season of essays I had Two very memorable ones. One decided to use the f word. It was in a quote from a patient, but I was like, ah, let's not do that. And then the other one was talking about a patient encounter and kept using the phrase butt crack in referring to this patient encounter. And I was like, I just think we could find something different to use. And those just stick out. I don't know if I've ever had anything that fragrant. I've had nothing like butt crack, but I've definitely had some where I was like, this is like how I would talk to my friends. Not how I would talk to the admissions committee. Little too casual. Yeah, little too casual. Yeah. We also had last year two poems submitted. They took some liberties of writing and did it in the style of a poem, which I did not get those, but both editors emailed me and were like, are you sure this is what they meant to submit? And then, yeah, we had to talk about that a little bit too. I feel like there's an element of risk with that. You might get someone reading it from our program like, oh, this is so creative, let's give them more points. But to me, the risk outweighs the benefit. Yeah, I agree. And that's what some people are like, should I use humor? And I'm like, it's hard to do. I've only seen it done well. A couple of times when you can really tell it fits that person's personality, but I would say usually it doesn't really translate. Yeah. My essay wasn't very humorous. No, not at all. Not at all. One other thing that comes up a lot and I'm just interested on your take is sharing personal things, personal medical issues, personal life events. And to me, it's a, A great area there. Like, yes, we want to be personal, but also, how much is too much? Do you see that at all? That's the thing is, yes, personal is good because it shows your different experiences and what you've been through, but there have been a couple essays where I've looked at it and been like, it's almost like you're trying to play too much on tugging their heartstrings. And that usually doesn't work. They read hundreds of essays a year that I don't think you want to overdo it. There was one essay, I don't know if you remember this, but there was one I did last year that was It was so personal that I sent it to you, and I'm like, Yeah. I don't even know if I was being, like, insensitive with how I edited it, but it was just a very dark thing that this student had experienced that I personally didn't think was the right strategy for an essay, which is why I asked you to look at it. Yeah, no, I, I do remember that. And I think my thing that I always go back to with the student is, Does what you're talking about, does the situation, whatever it is, does it relate to your YPA? Are you just sharing it to share it? Or does it relate to this situation? Has it impacted your decision somehow, your journey somehow? There are other places you can share some of that stuff, like supplementals, if appropriate and if given an opportunity. But yeah, the personal statement's not always where. That needs to be, yeah. And the interview too is another spot. There'll be times I'll write this paragraph, wait till your interview. Yes. Okay, is it different in an interview to you? It just depends on if the question comes up. Because a lot of students, they'll come in and they're like, no matter what happens, I really want to talk about this during my interview. If the question comes up Certain students might have a really good answer prepared. The question and answer style in interview will allow you that range, um, that topic. In an interview, there's a lot more opportunity to branch out. So some of that stuff that students will force into an essay, I do tell them just wait till the interview. You're probably going to get a chance to talk about it. It'll just fit a lot better there. Whereas the personal statement is just YPA and you have to stay within that. Yeah, I agree. You can wait for an opportunity and then make it. Fit in there, depending on how they ask, may determine how you talk about it. Yeah, I use the phrase sneak it in when I'm talking to students and all that. Sneak it into this question. It relates just enough that you can do it. I talk about like having a mental library of what you want to talk about and then pulling from it. Some visual like, then cross it off the list. I've talked about that volunteer experience. I've talked about this life experience and then pick something else to work in there. Do you have a favorite question to ask in mock interviews? Yes. Oh man, I have a lot of favorite questions. You don't have to reveal all your secrets. One of my favorite ones isn't very common to be asked in the real interview, but I will ask students because it will teach me a lot about what their strategy is. I will ask them if I have time, if you could choose any other job besides PA, what would it be? Are they going to be asked that exact question? Maybe not. But the take home point is like, If they ask you a personal question, they're probably just trying to get to know you. And when the student says, I'm going to go to medical school, or maybe it's true, I mean it's a personal question. But when I get an answer like that, that gives me a lot about what their strategy was during the interview, which is basically telling me what they thought I wanted to hear. Ooh, I like that. And now they're turning to a T Tune point at that point. I've never thought about it like that. But I think you're completely right. I tell them I wait for the moment where I feel confident that they're being genuine. Like, I can teach you confidence. I can teach you to look confident and act confident. I can't teach you to be genuine. If you're not being yourself, like, I can't fix that. So that's what I'm looking for is like, feel like you are being yourself. Really like the bachelor, like being here for the right reasons. Like you are passionate. That's what I'm kind of looking for. And so I kind of look for that moment where I feel like they're like, egg has cracked and they're like just being themselves. That's interesting. Cause I do get those answers. I would say the most common answer I get for that one is teacher. Teacher. And I'm like, what'd you know? Like, okay. My favorite. Yeah, that's what I tell them too. If that's really the truth, then you should answer the question that way. But my favorite answer to that is when they just choose like the most Random thing ever that teaches me a lot about like their hobbies and interests like I'll get like travel blogger or baker or like those types of answers What would you say? I think I'd be a genius at the Apple store. I'm one of those people I like to like, if my phone's not working I'll take it apart and replace the battery myself and put it back together, so I would love to do that for a living, but I like health care better. They asked me that in an interview. Let's remember I was 21 at the time When I interviewed and it was like the last question and I've talked about this before because I felt so dumb. I was like And they asked me that and I was like, oh, I don't know wedding dress store like What I don't know where that came from. I think I had been watching a tv show about weddings on tlc or something Yeah, I don't know and they were like, oh Okay, it's just like, I think that would be fun and then I asked them and one of the PAs who was interviewing me said she would own a bookstore and the other one said she would be a singer. So we got to have like a fun little conversation about it and I guess you're right. Like, they knew I was not like making up an answer clearly, but I remember being so embarrassed that I got in. So I guess it was okay. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's more of a strategy question. Because like you said, you get to learn something about the person. Instead, I like to ask the biggest weakness. I do that one too. I like to ask it differently though. Like I like to say, what would your What would your, like, family say is your biggest weakness? What would your classmates say? Your co workers? That throws them off a little bit. That's one too, I guess I do the same thing where I can tell if they are being honest or if they're just, like, saying something that they think isn't really a weakness that they can, like, twist or something. If you go on Google and Google what to answer for that question, they'll tell you something that you can turn into a strength which is, yes, but there have been times where students will answer the question and I'll, when I'm going through it at the end I'm like, So this would have been a really good answer if I'd asked you, what is your biggest strength? Like they'll say, I like helping people, and I'm like, that's not a weakness, that's a strength. So maybe use that as your biggest strength answer. Definitely see some of that depending on how genuine you're being or those types of things. Right, and it's like, I can't say no, or I work too hard. Yeah. Okay, I think asking it a little bit differently makes them think about it in a different way. What are some common mistakes in interviews? Definitely not relating it to PA enough. And I always tell students at the beginning, even before I start, make sure you relate your answers to PA. I also find, more often than not, I'll have students where their answers are too short. I always tell students at the end, they'll say, oh, were my answers too long? And I'll tell them that for every Maybe one student that gives me answers that are too long. I'll have five or six whose answers are too short. So like, when in doubt, just go longer, because you always feel like you're talking less than what you are. Definitely answers that are too short. And then, of course, you'll see just students that are just generally unprepared, which is the worst thing you like to see, because I can't do as much to help them. I can do a lot more. Oh, someone who's almost there. Cause then I can start pointing out the little things that you can only get through practice versus you'll get those students that haven't practiced at all, haven't studied at all. And they just kind of want to see how they do. And then we're talking like really basic, basic things that they could have found on any website or from listening to like a single episode of your podcast, they could have probably gotten. More out of it than from that hour. Sometimes they're trying to tell a story to supplement the answer. The story will be way too long, and it will almost take over or distract from the question. If I'm asking you why you want to go to this school, sure, you can tell a little story about it, a patient care experience that relates to the value of the school. But if it's taking up two thirds of your answer, then Maybe we need to cut that out. Yeah. And that's something that people can practice because I think people worry about sounding too rehearsed or if they should practice too much, but I think you can practice getting to the point quickly and figuring out from a context standpoint, what needs to be there and what doesn't. Like my thing is I set the stage, make sure your role is clear. Explain kind of what happened as quickly as possible, but really focus on why you're sharing that. Sometimes they'll answer with a story or something and just tell me the story, but they don't really relate it to why they're telling me. I think that happens a lot where they're like, oh, they're going to assume I was a CNA, or they're going to assume I was an EMT, but they don't. I didn't necessarily know that. I'll have students that think that if something's in their application, it's 100 percent off limits in their interview. So now, they're not talking at all about their patient contacts. And then, and it's no, just because it's in your application doesn't mean it's off limits. You should, can still find ways to incorporate it and still add things and be creative. Yes, a hundred percent. When I showed up at my interview, they had lost my application. So they didn't know anything about me, like nothing. I guess, I guess I'm supposed to be here. Yeah. They're like, we'll find it. Okay. That's a very blind interview. It was very blind. Yeah. They told me, they're like, we totally, we just can't find your application right now. Okay, cool. And they, Couldn't pull it like online at that point. So whatever, but yeah, just went for it. What stands out to you in an interview of somebody that you're just like, Oh man, that person, I never give prompts. I'm never like, Oh yeah, you're definitely getting in. But sometimes I'm like, you did a great job. Like you should feel very confident. I feel good about this. There will be times when you can just, between the application and between the interview skills, when you can pretty much tell, and it's true, I don't tell them either, you're definitely getting in, but you can pretty much tell, and it's usually a combination. You have to have a lot of things, and some of this stuff is just like personality, like charisma, you can teach, but sometimes it's just a skill or a talent, but yeah, it's being able to, of course, articulate your ideas effectively, trying to seem confident, but not, um, Arrogant. Right. And trying to seem prepared but not memorized. It's a difficult balance. And then just of course, like the, the preparation, having had enough patient contact where you can incorporate it into your interview. Sometimes in the younger applicants with not as much experience, it can be more challenging. Um, relating it back to PA, giving, I always tell students, if it's a question where it's, we're looking for examples, like why do you want to go to our school? Somewhere between three or four examples. Just having that. Combination when you have all that together and it's someone that seems confident and relaxed Just it leads to a really good quality interview Yeah, I agree and a lot of these applicants even just looking their application and they get to the interview and i'm like y'all are Fantastic. I would accept you. I would love for you to be in my class I don't think I would get in these days y'all are doing so much stuff and it's hard for me when I feel like somebody Does feel so scared from the interview when I'm like, you've done what you're supposed to do, and you have all these great experiences. You just have to highlight them, which it's hard. It's hard for people to talk about themselves. We don't want to do that. I think that makes it a little bit tough. I enjoyed the interviews. I didn't think they were that scary, but that may be abnormal. Yeah, I didn't have, it also depends on the interviewer too. Yeah, if they're scary. If they're gonna be, yeah, exactly. But I guess I was always lucky with that. Yeah, are you stoic when you're doing mock interviews? I am. I am too. Yeah, I tell students at the end to prepare them for worst case scenario. So I don't show any facial expression, I don't give any feedback at all, um, and I do that because then at the end if they talk about it I'll tell them this is like the worst case that you're going to have. Hopefully it's much more conversational. You can tell by their responding to you or their smiling or those types of things. But I don't do that because I want you to get ready for the absolute worst case scenario. I do the same thing. I like, we're like chatting like this and all of a sudden we're just. And yeah, we're starting now. Yeah. And then I take my notes. I don't really, I don't comment. I don't make any reaction at all. And then afterwards I'm like, how'd it go? Take a big breath. They're sweating. Yeah. I'm not trying to scare them too bad, but I definitely had some stoic interviewers. I had some bad cop, good cop. Stuff. They're pretty rough. They like anything I said, they would question, they would push back and I think part of that was strategy just to kind of see my response, see if I like held my answer, see if I was easily swayed. So I heard one program, they do zoom interviews. And in the middle of the interview, the interviewer acts like something's wrong. There's a technical difficulty, even though there's not, and makes the person kind of sweat for a minute to try to figure it out. And then I don't know what they do come back or something. Just to test them, which, that's a little extreme. I don't know about all that. Yeah, that, that might have caused me to have a mini panic if that happened in my interview. Yeah. Because if that happens during one of the mock interviews, when a student drops out, the first thing I do is I'll do like an internet speed test to figure out, is this on my end or is this on their end? Right, it's near you. So that'd be the first thing I'm thinking, oh my gosh, what if it's on my end? So yeah, that would stress me out a lot. I'd be like trying to call the school. I don't know. Yeah. I'm sorry. Do a little problem solving. Interviews shouldn't be that scary. I, I do think people should prepare for their mock interview, um, if possible. Do you prefer people to wear their suit or you don't care? I don't really care. I don't really care just because depending on the time of day, and if I was just working outside, I may or may not be as dressed up as the student. Oh, I'm never. Never wearing a suit, but yeah. I never am. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Besides, I guess maybe it helps the students because it makes them feel more. Feel more real. It's more of a simulation, yeah. Yeah, I do film if they're doing a Zoom interview to try to have like their setup just so they can see what that looks like on camera and that makes it a little bit more real. But as we go into interview season, Any thoughts specifically for re applicants for either essays or interviews? I feel like for interviews, sometimes it can be a little bit harder for somebody, especially if they've interviewed at a lot of schools. Maybe feel a little bit jaded and I think it can be a little tough. What are your thoughts or anything you've seen for the re applicants? Yeah, just from an application standpoint alone, of course, you would want to retake any class that was like a C plus or minor or less. Of course, more patient contact, try to get more shadowing. But for the interview itself, I guess it depends on what the issue was, because I have had students that have 3. 8s, 3. 9s, really good applications and not get in and then they finally, okay, I'll do a mock interview. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, if this application didn't get in, it's probably the interview. And then you'll learn and it's okay, their answers were too short, or their answers were too long, or they didn't. For a re applicant, I would say, go back to the fundamentals. Like, make sure that you know what a PA is, and make sure that you know why you want to be one. What experiences you have led you up to it. Make sure you research the school, make sure you know the history of the PA profession. These are things that everybody can do. But what I find when it's a re applicant that had a great application that didn't get in, it's usually because of those types of things, or just because they don't have enough confidence. They are smart and they'd be a great PA student, but they can't get over that interview hump. And for those students, I just tell them, keep practicing out loud, hopefully with another person, but worst case scenario, record yourself and watch it back later because there's no replacement for out loud practicing. 100%. Yeah. I had a message today from someone who had four interviews this cycle and, and all rejections and asking me what they should do different. And I was like, that. Four interviews is amazing. That's impressive. So that tells me it was most likely something in the interview that maybe that was a red flag. Too general is something I see a good bit. I think you were saying that you need specifics. A couple years ago, I had someone who, no pressure, came to me and she had had seven interviews. Two wait lists, five rejections, and she had one more interview. She says, my last chance, it's in two days, I like, what do I do? And so we did a mock interview and her thing, she was just way too general. I was like, I don't feel like I'm learning anything about you. I just feel like you're giving me this like very surface level answer, not even necessarily like what she thinks I want to hear, but just not going a little bit deeper or more personal. So we worked on that some and she didn't end up getting in, but that was very intimidating to me. I was like, Oh no, why didn't you come to me months ago? But we were able to help her out. Yeah. Whenever the interview is the next day. And the students not where they need to be, it's very hard because I want to help them but I also don't want to overwhelm them so they're like trying to pull an all nighter. That's when I'll maybe tone it back just a little bit on the feedback and try to give them the big picture points to help them for the next morning. The bottom line is don't schedule the night before the interview unless it's like a last minute rehearsal when you're already where you need to be, but usually not. Try, yeah, I, I very much encourage not doing that. And if people. Ask me or like email last minute. I really don't recommend you do that I I recommend the day before don't do anything for the interview Just make sure you have your ducks in a row logistically, but that's it I've had people want to do them the morning of their interview want to do it at 5 a. m The morning i'm like we are not doing this. You should not do this You're gonna be exhausted by the end of the day That's like trying to take the sats twice in a row on the same day. There comes a point. That's just too much Yeah last minute ones I think the sweet spot, it's probably three weeks before that gives you enough time to practice. And most people don't do a second one, but if somebody decided they needed more practice, they could. I feel like we give enough feedback that then they can work on stuff themselves. Like you said, record themselves, go work with family and friends and share that feedback with stuff that they can keep working on. Yeah, like sometimes students will ask me at the end, they'll say, do you think I should do another one? Sometimes the answer is, yeah, you need more practice. But a lot of the time, I'll tell the student, take the next few days, practice, and then see how you feel. If you look at my notes, practice out loud, make these changes, then you'll have a much better idea. And sometimes those students, I don't hear from them again, then some of them, yeah, they do want the extra practice, and that's why it's good to do it enough in advance where you can do that. Yeah, it's helpful, but not always realistic, so. Right. Thank you for sharing all of your wonderful insights and everybody will know where to find you if they want to get with you for a mock interview. I'm actually surprised by how many we've had. Still in February. I think with virtual interviews now, the cycles are just very different. Yeah, there's one or two schools I can think of that it seems like they just started interviewing now because I'm getting so many from the same one or two schools. Interesting. They probably did. They probably just sent. And then some of the newer programs, they don't always get notice of being able to start so they'll send on tabulator interviews too. Yeah. Yeah, the cycle's different every year. Yeah, and then we'll get into essays and all that. Thank you so much for joining me. Mhm.