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He knows lifters. He is a lifter and he's got magic hands, dry needles, and a deep understanding of how to not let your body fall apart. Book a session and tell him the PL. then sent you Summit Performance Therapy. Reach your Summit powered by Bear. Literally. Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Pile Lifters. Then I'm your host, Cam Smith. And today I want to bring on
another Massachusetts native. David Kaler is pretty, pretty strong in the raw world, so David wants you to do yourself. Hi. Yeah. So my name is David Kaler, actually from New Hampshire, but close, close enough. Yeah, I'd say so. Like, yeah, been doing this for 8:00 or so years now, off and on a little bit more compatibly, like 3 or 4, but best total would be 2034 at about 2:50 in sleeves. Yes, Hello dog. Yeah, so. It's dog Bell. So I think we're in for a pretty
interesting episode. We're both biomedical, both biomedical engineers that somehow managed to get degrees. We both questioned it to this day. And they just issue those things to anybody is basically what they'll what they'll fucking tell you. Cam and I also train together pretty frequently, so. So we're kind of going into your background a little bit. Obviously you've been in the game for about 8 years. What were the kind of early days like for you? What kind of was your your inspiration?
What got you onto the platform? Oh, they weren't great. So I started. It was right about after I got into college, so I played rugby at Wentworth Institute of Technology in Boston. When I got there, one of my good friends, my wanted someone who became my college roommate, who, you know, it was actually Bob. He had already started and he had gotten into it. And so it was just like a hey, this is what I do. You want to fucking come join?
And from there, I would like rugby was a primary focus, but I gotten pretty strong around like towards my sophomore year. And so like strong for what was back in 2017 for a bunch of juniors, right? I think I was I and then in the summer of that year I competed once I totaled, I think it was we're just going open power looking for this shit.
I think it was like 1428 or somewhere around there when I was like 20 and just as like a OK, I'm doing this for fun while rugby's in the offseason and then college went through, like finished college or whatever. Rugby was kind of the focus. And then after that and then after COVID hit, I kind of got back into it because I was still in New Hampshire and now the
gym's closed. So it was like, I don't want to say I had nothing better to do, but like it was a good way to keep distracted while I was like still working and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And for me, I kind of had the the same journey into it as I kind of dabbled with it when I was still in football and college. And then soon as college ended, we're like, all right, we're pile of shoes now. And that's kind of just how it went. Yeah, that. That's literally exactly what it
was. But it was like, so back then there wasn't really like any type of meats in the area. Yeah. Especially because like at the time you could do like, I didn't even know what any of it was or whatever. It was just there was a gym, it was TPS in Baldwin, which probably like 25 minutes from the school or whatever. And that was the only thing. And it was like that it, it was mostly strong men there or whatever, but they had a couple power lifters there.
And they said that they all competed in the USPA. And so the closest me to add, you had to drive to New York and I got it up, I totaled 1422. There we go. Yeah, so. Two O 1. So I know obviously the Boston area like New England now we have a lot of great gyms, but the Boston area itself really doesn't have a lot of powerlifting gyms. So where did? Where's your kind of early training days besides maybe the rec center at your school? Oh yeah, no, it was. So you'd actually be surprised.
There's a few good ones in the Boston area now, but I know that like they're not necessarily as best set up for equipped just because it's all like the focus is just all gone to like USAPLIPF style, which I know you're rolling over and frankly, I'm too fuck it. So I was like it was literally rec center like our school. So we had like it was crazy. Our school gym had like we had one that was just for any like anybody could fucking go in there. And it was like that. No squat rack.
They had a Smith machine. You would have people trying like free barbell squat by like taking a barbell off of the bench, like off of the spotter stands and take a vertical step down. Oh God. And then walk out and squat. And then like you'd be trying to Max out on the Smith machine as best as you fucking could and then doing like whatever dumbbells or whatever that you had there, right, because it's a tech school. They were not investing in any fitness equipment.
And then they had the athletes gym, which was like, just, it looks like a high school weight room. It was literally just like squat stands with the roller bench and then nothing fucking else. Yeah. And so I would do like, my squats and poles in there. And then like bench, I can do wherever.
Yeah. And then I guess as far as obviously you started with the 1400 total, when you've worked your way up to the 2000s for you, when was that kind of tipping point of like, OK, I can actually be pretty good at the sport? I did. So it wasn't until 21. So I competed once in 20. It was in 2017 and then rugby had kind of finished. I had done that circuit like as best as I could.
I'd gone all over the country, like done a couple tours in Canada. And then after that it was like I was working and it was like, I don't really want to push this anymore. Like what I'm going to tell my boss. I split my head open. I got to take 3 fucking days off, like come on. And so when I got into that, I kind of like all through 19 and 20 was just like training. I wasn't really thinking
anything. And then I probably, I don't know what the hell happened, but it was like something clicked and I was like, you know what, maybe I'll drop into a meet. And then so in 21, I got back into it. And then March, I totaled like 1687 or something like that at like, still the same weight class. And so it was like I hadn't competed in five years. And I got like third at this thing, which like, it's a local meet that doesn't fucking mean anything.
But also at the same time, it was like to a 20 kid who had just turned 24 and hadn't competed in six years in ages. Yeah. And fucking. And then it was like, OK, like, maybe I start doing this a little bit again. And then like the next time I competed was 18. I was like, all right, maybe I have a reason. I bumped a 242 then and it was like, all right, I totaled like 1820 and I was like, all right, maybe I'm actually good at this shit.
Yeah. And, and for you and me both, we both, I was kind of adamant on staying in the 242 class for a while. I think you had that same kind of debate with yourself and finally went, decided to go 275 and now we're both struggling to get up to the 275. But for you, Yeah. And so for you, when was the, when did you make that decision that you're like, all right, I'm done with this 242 class? It was literally at weigh insurance for the ghost clash last year.
So it was like I had I got into that meet by winning a meet that was just held at ghost Gym, Alex after. And so Alex Uslar, who owns ghost Gym and he runs the ghost clash and he's involved in a bunch of other things too. He held a local. So after the whole USPA like scandal thing that we don't really have to get into dropped. I was like, OK, fuck this, I'm out. I switched over to the WRPF and then the 1st and but there was
no meets anywhere nearby. It was either I was like driving down to Maryland or it was like, pick something on the calendar And it was like, oh shit. Like there's one that goes gym. Like yeah, fuck, that's kind of cool. Let me drop in there. And I did that. And then I after squats, Alex walked up to me and he was like, he was like, what the hell are you going to total here?
Because I had like, I think I had I squatted like 7 33 or like 738 and had a miss at 766. And if we're at like a local meet and he was like, dude, what the fuck? Yeah. And so he walked out. I was like, I'm probably total in here. Whatever. I think I might dot somewhere in the low fives. And he was like, if you win, I'll give you an invite. Yeah. And then it like you'll go to it was like, I'll give you an invite protein for free. And I was like, OK, fuck, sick.
And I ended up barely fucking winning that meet thanks to a last deadlift. But as we were going to do it. So I was like, all right, I'm the weakest dude in this fucking like on this day. It was like, I had like my qualifying tool. They're dropping everybody. And it's like, Hack's got a 661 shot. It's like Hunter Henderson's there, Briani, Like every big name you can fucking think of. Jamal Browner, like, name it at the time. And so I'm like, I'm getting
dead fucking last. Yeah. I'm sitting in the sauna by myself. I'm like 7 lbs over the night before. And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Like I'm going to cut this hard and fucking kill myself to get 11th place as opposed to like fucking 15th of my weight class. Yeah, there's no point. And so I waited at like I just cut. I just thought the cut right there. And I was like, there's no
reason for me to do this again. I was like, I know I'm competitive at a certain stage, but it was like at like, I'm not fucking world competitive. And 242 was stacked at the like last year too. A lot of people have made the bump. And so I was like, there's no fucking point. Like now I'm just as compared. I'm more competitive at 275. Yeah. And so it's like it's much easier. Like I can feel more comfortable training and stuff like that. Like my body floats somewhere in the two 50s usually.
I'm trying to push that kind of like you're doing the same, yeah. And, and I think one of the, the one of the bigger things with that too is obviously like we have relatively large frames and by staying in the 242 class like we're kind of limiting ourselves unless we're like a 5% body fat at 242, like it's not going to help us well. Yeah, And you're just not, like, I've kind of noticed this too. Like housing training is just not health.
I don't want to say healthy, but like, it does more damage the leaner you are, it kind of seems, if you're not, like, uncomfortably heavy. Yeah, like I can't fucking push when I'm that lean. Like I need a little bit of cushion to kind of like your joints are fucking dry. Like you can't fucking do that. Like especially you or can only imagine if you're on equipment and shit like that.
Like when you go to squat, especially with how wide it is out of a mono and shit like that, it's like that must feel like hell when you're that lean. Yeah. And another thing too, I mean, obviously like being lean and like healthy is like going to make you stronger and perform better and make it through a meat. But like someone that's like maybe a little bit on the fluffier side, like kind of like where I'm at, Like you get more compression out of the gear at that when it fits like that.
Rather if I was like the same weight at a much lighter class, like I'm not going to get as much out of the gear. Yeah, well, it's it's like especially 2 with you like trying to cut and shit like that, like your shit would fit so weird. Yeah, like it's like, at least with mine, it's like, all right, I don't what? I'm going to pretend I get something out of a fucking singlet. Like who are we kidding? Obviously there's the whole knee sleeves thing like you're
wearing. Let's get in the pair that I. Have yeah, let's get in that a little bit because so for everyone that doesn't know I just bought I just bought some A7 rigor mortis sleeves off of him because I I tell. You how much you paid. $69 and which? Was not the price I sent him by the way. He said 70. I didn't change that on the lower end because he's an asshole. And anyways, I got his were three excels and they're tight as fuck on me and I feel like I get £300 out of them.
So tell us about kind of just your experience with the different knee sleeves and maybe your opinion on the whole banning and stuff like that. OK, All right. Yeah, 'cause like so I've been using so like those a sevens, I use the same ones that you have once and then I don't I sides down because they were a little bit fluffy in there. They were a little bit loose like around the knee joint. And so I sized down and I have two X's and they're fucking men.
But I think it was like probably 20, like early 23 that insert dropped. They're like ergo pros and that was like the first like stiffer, like everyone been using their like SPD, like Gen. 2. It's the same trick that a bunch of people had back then, right? And those were like they give you a good amount, but they're not anything close. Like it's not going to change how you squat or whatever. Like if you have those on tight like it's it feels different.
Your motor patterns are literally different. And it was like injure had come out with that and it totally changed like the sleeve squat game. It was like records left and fucking right were being smashed. It like all over the place and so everyone kind of got into like a big like how do we catch up, right? And so it was like iron rebel had that big thing where they tried to challenge the material integrity of the of the actual sleeve.
And then it was like then after that, like it it got approved right IBS like injured was approved and then it was like everything fucking kept going like A7 came out with 1 Pioneer has one. I think Titan has one now. I think a bunch of. Other F8 also has one now too, F. 8 does. I remember trying to pull that thing off of Rupo's leg. Yeah. That took his foot off and so it's like every fucking company
came out with one of them now. And it's like, I mean, given there's so many people that fucking Oh, I need to have this absolutely perfectly. Like otherwise like, Oh my God, I don't have like the right pair of sleeves or I'm bloated too much. Like This is why everything moves so shitty instead of just being strong enough. But like I've been using them since probably I got it.
I picked up a pair like I want to say like around like April 23rd was like right as I had started a prep and it was like, especially with the way I squat, I have a very like for a raw squat, like a very controlled descent and then you just kind of just out of the hole. I'm as fast as I can possibly be, but like that type like loads that stiff type of neoprene like very, very well. And so I get a ton out of it kind of similar to a wrap, like you would said, just fucking try
wraps at this point. But it was like I did that and then so I'd stuck with injure or whatever. And like that taper too is different. Like you've you've seen it compared to like an SPD or something like that. Like a lot of them. And they make them now both ways as like the inserts are like a cone where it's like, or sorry, like the old ones are like a cone where it's like it's just wide up top. It's an angled taper down. There's no curvature to
anything. And so it's like if you have a big calf, it doesn't fit very well. Yeah, it's OK, but it's not it's not great. And so it's like now, so a lot of them are coming out with more of like an hourglass shape. Or if you have like a big calf that fits really, really nice. Because like you can get a really good size sleeve to your leg while still not like it's not cutting off circulation at your calf, which is what would always happen to me if I went like if I use like a cone
sleeve. And so I did that through like in 23. I picked them up and I'd use been using those inserts for a while. I'd replace them with a couple pairs And then like it felt like the material got like a little softer. I don't know what I picked up a pair around like last year. It seemed like the material was a little bit more pliable. I wasn't getting the same thing out of it.
So I was like going all over the place and like I tried ghost ones and they had the cones or whatever that material is fucking great. It was the same thing I was looking for, but it was the cone shape. And so it kind of hit or miss. And then I used I picked up those A sevens. I tried Iron Rebels and I miss sized and had to cut them off my leg.
Dude, it was a heart attack. Like legitimately Bob had to fucking wedge a knife in between my leg and the sleeve and just yeah, like I almost got, he almost just sliced an artery. But like, I tried a few out and then I had those, I had those a sevens or whatever. And those have been mint. And so I keep, I've kept those and I kind of want to just use them for my heavier shit to just kind of preserve them.
And then I've got like those softer, they're still the ergo pros, but they're the same, like that same ends or whatever. They're fine. You know what I mean? It's not a bad sleeve, but like all that happened and then it's like now it's ever. It's so focused. It'd be like the same thing as like you changing out a squat suit, which is like totally different. Yeah. Like two different suits or whatever a different fit is. Like the difference between. It's like 50 to 60 lbs for you. Yeah.
Like a sleeve should be 10, you know, like 20. It's like if I switch out a different, it should still be able to do the same fucking thing. Yeah. And. And so it's like now 2 with this whole IPF thing dropping, it's like the whole thing's a fucking mess. Yeah, and I think just to like pull, pull strings and to just like kind of tease people like put trying to put like I was putting on those sleeves yesterday and I was also putting on my briefs. They were just as fucking hard
to get on as the briefs. And it changes how you walk. And that's why I'm like, if it's if it's considered raw, like it's doing so much to your squat that I mean, like I'm all for all facets of pile lifting, whatever, like we want to lift the most. But I hate when people are like equipped is stupid because and then they're using these sleeves that are giving them 60 lbs. Yeah, it's it's weird.
I think Pat Horvath had a really good fucking take on it where he was like the idea of raw and it's like it's marketing idea that is like you can you can walk into your normal fucking gym, like your fit lab or your Gold's Gym or God knows what. And you can probably see someone using not as good quality
equipment as as that. But you can probably understand like, OK, that's it's better equipment, but it's the same style of equipment that like anybody who walks into a gym probably has, if they're like like a like a gym rat, right? Like they might have some type of knee sleeve. It's not going to be fucking good or anything like that. They might even have like a soft like a bodybuilder style wrap. You're going to have a belt of some kind, right? It's probably fucking made of Velcro.
But what do they have it? And then they probably have like some wrist wraps and everyone knows what lifter shoes look like. So it's like that's about, it's like, OK, I get it like that is it's better equipment, but it's the same style. So I can see what that looks like. And understand what that means. You can't like, you know, you then obviously you get to like single and multi and now they have unlimited and all that type of stuff, right? Like that's where you kind of,
it's different. And that's where it's like you kind of have to understand powerlifting and like the actual idea of it to not just look at it and say, OK, this is someone squatting 600 lbs. Yeah, I can compare that to what I do now. Exactly. And they're kind of going on that too. It's like politics, way too small of a sport to like have
segregation within the sport. So like, yeah, you may not ever want to do equipped or you may think it's a little silly and maybe equipped lifters think ever competing raw again would be stupid, but. But it's yeah. And it sucks and it like it sucks that you kind of have that beef. And it is kind of funny that like each side thinks the same thing about the other where it's it's like, all right, I think you people are stupid and they think you people are for like all the same thing.
And both of them are right sometimes to be quite. It's like everybody's right. I think the big thing that I've noticed is in the feds that merge the two and offer both the divisions, especially at the same meet. I think it's a big learning curve and that a lot of a lot of like feds are trying to fucking figure that out. And I mean, like in the USAPL and the IPF, they have only single ply, but it it looks about the same.
And again, single ply you don't get nearly as much like it doesn't like it's not to the point where like everyone squats the same, everyone pulls sumo, Everyone like does whatever, right, because the wraps are shorter. The it's only single ply or whatever, right? They're still in the stiff bar. They're walked out like some of those type of things. And like on bench, you can't bring your own liftoff guy like you you, it's a one person
liftoff. It's about 3. It looks the same, but it's like I think in some of these other meats that are trying to that were primarily equipped now trying to bring in more raw lifters that it's like, hang on, there needs to be some type of adjustment. Like they don't know how to handle both at once. Yeah. So I think we can kind of dive into different like federation bias and standards for for you, what's the biggest issue you see right now? And like what do you think the solution is?
I think right now, so I don't necessarily know that it's a federation thing, but I think right now it's it's a big issue where, and this is so much more on the fucking raw side too, where I think you see a lot of it's like a meat director wants to bring attention to their gym or to their meat.
And in some of those in I guess you say about like federation to some of those feds allow you to kind of pick like pick your own judges to an extent where it's like kind of anyone can ref and so and the standards for it aren't as enforced the same way. And so now you have like this instance where it's like you like the platform doesn't mean the same thing in the Fed. It it's I don't know, like what's better or worse. Like obviously I've competed in really only meets where they
fucking call you strict as shit. Like you look at the ghost clash, like in which is power of the United used to be WRPF. You look at that whole like you look at that, you look at USPA to an extent, right? And I've done like their international meets, like the IPL and you watch those refs and they are like on all fours looking for your hip crease and shit like that. And I think depth is the biggest
one that actually happens. Like, yeah, you know, sometimes in bench you see like a bug come up or like a little bit of like not an up and down, but like a wobbly bet or like a side bench. I don't want to fucking describe it. Or like sometimes you see like an unlocked knee on deadlift or something like that, right? But like squad, I think everyone can to look at and say OK wait, hang on, this is high as shit like those because now there's not like 1 fucking in like on
the untested side. Mostly it's like because it's like there's so many feds. One fed doesn't like a total on one platform doesn't mean the same as the other. Where it's like in the USAPL, the IPF, all those other ones, it's like you have to qualify in their fucking fed. You know what I mean? It's like I need a total 1650 in this vet under this set of rules, under this same thing,
right? Whereas you know someone can go squat 810 lbs in raps like and it's high as fuck and then all of a sudden like it gets posted and then there's this big and now everyone's trying to maintain credibility and just becomes a shitstorm. Especially on the social media too. Like if this was 5-10 years ago or something like that. You just see something get updated and then everyone be like what the fuck happened?
Yeah. And I think that kind of goes into a little bit about like records and stuff and records being overturned and obviously like having video footage, especially on squats where it's like, can you really judge it from a video? And this is and from like an equip perspective or even a raw perspective. It's I think the the consistency of standards across feds definitely need some improvement. But as an athlete's perspective, I think you're doing yourself
injustice. Say if like Dave Tate said this, like if you go to a meet and you can get a squat pass that's an inch high, why would you want to get caught lower? Yeah, I don't see why you wouldn't like me like to go in there and set A and try to execute to a standard that is tighter than what they're allowing. Doesn't make sense. Yeah, I don't get like if they're going to white light, you fucking cheat the rules, you're not blatantly trying to mislead them, right?
You're not like sneaking shit into your singlet or something like that to make it look like you're like your hip crease is different or something. Like, you know what I mean? Like if you're not cheating, right, you're just taking advantage of what is being allowed there. It's like and you see it, I think you see it a little bit more in Multiply and in other where it's like each meet gets judged a little differently and you have to watch everyone kind
of adjust. And so it's like something like you'll get to some of these and you're seeing it now with like some of the like more pro beats that they're throwing on together. It's like hang, you get there and like hang on. They're calling this tight like boys got to sing and some of them just fucking can't. Yeah, and it's like a perfect example of that in the
multiplied worlds. Like you look at like the perfect storm meet down in Florida or like the women's pro AM. Like the people that show up there, they know they're like, all right, it's strict today. I might not be able to squat what I wanted, but I'll adjust to it because I'm a professional athlete and I'll figure it out.
Yeah, and something and like you see it in on the raw side, you see it where they just can't fucking adjust the amount of meats I've walked into and someone's just bombed out because they trained high and their hips just don't get that way. And like it's it happens. So back when I did, it was IPO N Americans in 23 or something like that. And it was one of those it was they had like this, it's an international championship style
meet, completely fucking. It was a low class meet with some really with like some really strict judging. It was extremely well run. But like the competitors there were just like not what you would like. Like the field wasn't what should have been there for that style of championship, right? Like they asked if I knew that my opening squat that I put in was in kilos and not pounds. They thought I could qualify for this with a 300 squad.
That's literally what it was. And so it's like at that, it was like you had a bunch of like backyard guys just coming in and they thought that they could do whatever they did and it was like 6 people bombed out on death. And so it's like on the raw side, they can't adjust as much because it's like, I think the jumps are a little smaller.
I think it's a little bit more of your body's limitation where it's like in equipped, like everyone seems like they can get that low, but just not under a certain amount of weight. Like they can't descend properly to get to the right position. So it's like they can adjust a little bit easier, but like it's, I don't know, it's, it's interesting. Yeah. And I think like, I guess for an example, say like your opener and a multiply squat is you
literally can barely get there. Or like you've been training high, which I think that's the the basis, the root cause of this whole problem begin with is people training high than not adjusting on the fly versus training to the standard and then taking advantage of a lower standard when you're there to meet. But as far as like, say I'm going to, I don't know. For me, we'll just say like, say I'm going to open super light, like 750 and I'm binding up hard. Like we can make adjustments to
the gear. Like maybe we'll go a little bit looser on the straps, but maybe we'll open up the lace a little bit. But if you're raw, it's like, what are you going to do, loosen up your knee sleeves? Like no, you should have been training to depth the whole time. Well, it's like, yeah, what are you going to? You're going to fucking stretch,
like you know what I mean? And so it's like you see all the fucking time, like in equipped it you'll see like red light, red light scratch and they just say fuck it. Yeah, what you see in raw is you see red is you see red on depth. Then you see either like another red on depth, but it moves slower. And then the third you get fucking stapled or those second and third just invert. Yeah, like it's red light on depth.
Then someone tries to sink as low as they can go and they can't get out and they get folded. And then they try and cut it somewhere in between and either passes or doesn't or whatever, or it's just like you can only do so much. It like if you don't have the motor pattern, the strength, the flexibility to get down there, you can't. There's nothing you can do. Yeah. Where it's like, especially in equip, you guys are so wide too that it's like, you fucking
should be able to talk. Like you don't have to move that much. Yeah. And as far as the IPL N Americans, I know that you said that one of your favorite stories in pile of you kind of came from there. So you want to tell us about that? Which one? What did they even put on the form? I feel N Americans, 2022. Fuck yeah. Oh, that was in 22. Damn. I lied to everybody. Yeah. So that's how, yeah, that's how it was. So I had, I had competed late earlier that year.
It was like I was kind of, I didn't want to say just getting onto the scene here because it's like, like, First off, it was an 1800. I had an 1800 LB total, which doesn't in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean all that much. I'm sorry to everyone who totals less, but like as a 275 or like, I know it's competitive. It's very, very competitive at the local boat.
Like you got to be number one or two in the world to really like make it. That's kind of what I'm getting at. And so I was kind of trying to like, I was starting to like make a name for myself a little bit, at least locally. And so I didn't know the scene very well. I didn't know what was on the pro stage. I didn't know any of that. I think I had like a 496 dots for whatever, if that is reference. And so I was like, all right, let me try and find something bigger.
I wasn't qualified for the Ghost Clash yet. I wasn't qualified for the American Pro. There were some other options that I didn't know about like Power Surge and a few other meats that had like qualifying around there with like a little bit of cash prizes. And so I just looked and I found it was like it was IPL N Americans. And I was like, oh, this has to be fucking legit. It was like, it was like
everything about this. I was like, this is probably perfect because I was thinking of something that's more similar to like USAPL Nationals where it's like you have a bunch of platforms going on too. It's a massive, massive meat that they throw on. And so I was like something like that. I sent it to my coach and he was all about it. Like it was probably, I probably had like 6 months to like prep for it. There was another meet in between there.
But I was like, yeah, this is this is a good idea. And we get down there and my apologies to anyone from Oklahoma, that state is a fucking shit head. Like we get to Oklahoma City, we fly in. It is myself, Bob, and my coach, Eric Hogan. Bob almost misses his flight down there because he he tried to bring baby powder in his carry on, which included his gym bag because he didn't want to check something.
And so he, I guess they aggressively searched it because they thought it was an explosive. And so it's a mess getting down there. We rent the car, we get to the Airbnb. It's in the worst neighborhood I've ever seen. It's like there's it's like a little like one story. Airbnb, our neighbors cars on blocks. Oh. My God. We move in there and then we walk into this like this, just whatever Airbnb, we're chilling there, we're driving around the city. It's a shit hole.
Like there's just humble weep. There's nothing. And so we go to like, we scope out the venue for meat day and like, as we're weighing in or whatever, and all of a sudden, like everything just changes. And you realize Oklahoma City has like three blocks of actual shit. Like you've got this the most beautiful Convention Center I've ever fucking seen that they're hosting this meet at, which was also, they were also hosting a furry convention.
Oh God, There's nothing else I need to comment on that. I didn't exactly, you know, head over there between lifts. Yeah, well, I mean the fucked up part is the the furry convention probably had more people. It did. Unfortunately, it did. I regret. Yeah. It had more people and they were in costume. That is true. And so it's like that was also in the Convention Center, and it's right next to where the Thunder play, too.
So it's like those are the only two draws in the fucking city, and they're right next to each other and everything else sucks. And so like we get down there and we weigh in. The fucking thing about the squat happened where the guy doesn't know. I put like, I, yes, I understand, I can open a 678 lbs, I'll be fine. We're OK, right? And I walk in and I have done this entire prep thinking that I am going into a pro meet.
Every piece of my training, my nutrition, fucking every extracurricular you could think of, I had dialed. I walk in and realize I'm opening 150 lbs heavy and I'm like, you have to be kidding me. Was like, maybe we can get on the podium. And it's like, Oh no one. I was like, oh, no one here in my weight class is squatting over 550. Great. I don't know what I'm, I don't know what I'm doing here. And so like fucking I'm all like jacked up on pre workout and
shit like that. And I'm talking a bunch of shit in the warm up room for some reason, I don't know, there were allegations I knocked over somebody like like walking out to the platform to take my opener. Like the whole thing was a mess and like perfectly run me just didn't get the draw that they expected to get. Like, and it was like Bob had, Bob had like one kid that was around what he could do. The kid like out benched him or whatever, but just couldn't pull.
And so he was like he had to be like relatively executing or whatever. And I think I won my weight class by like 260 lbs or something like that. Jesus. We have data, we can go to this. Yeah, I think it's funny though, when you kind of just thinking about like a local meet when there's that like one guy like like say like Josh Fleming, is that like our one of our local meats around here? You're like, well what the fuck? Yeah, he's a good fucking dude. Yeah, he's just strong as fuck.
And you're like, all right, well, who? Why is everyone else here? Everyone else can just go home now. Let's just watch Josh and go home. Yeah, that's kind of what he did. The meat that I did, yeah, I won my weight. I'm looking at it now. I won by 265 lbs. Jesus Christ. And I mean, like, it's not that everyone else put up a bad total, but it's not North American champion total. Yeah, and that's what. Actually happened. The meat I had done before. Joshua just walked in and
cleaned the entire thing out. Nicest man alive. Yeah. Yeah, warmed up on bumper plates for squat, got all the way up to 585 and like, do you want to work in here or not? Like on a power bar walking out 585 with just rope bumper plates on, didn't throw his knee sleeves on, took 140 LB jump onto the platform and just tilled Yeah for the rest of the day. Yeah, and like I said, it's funny. Like they kind of just walk in and clean house like that.
And when you go to like these local meats and stuff, it's like someone like him like that, you don't see him on like the big platforms and you're like, why is he not getting seen? Is he not getting invites? And that's why it's like, I think I forget who said it was a couple episodes ago.
There was someone that was saying like, oh, it was Nick Forte about how like there needs to be a better like ranking or classification system of like the weight glasses for invites to these pro meets rather than just like, oh, I know this person. He's cool. Well, that's what, yeah, it sucks. Is like there's a minimum expectation that you have to hit, but it's not like someone goes on open powerlifting or whatever and like just picks the top ten and just invites them
all. I mean, like in a weight class, obviously like you can name the top ten in sleeves or wraps or whatever. Like you can do it in single and multi. You know, who would go out, like who would get that invite? But it's like there has to be some type of notoriety for you to like obtain that and know that this person exists. And I think the other thing too was like, and I don't know the fix for this. It's fucking expensive sometimes.
Like it'd be one thing if, and obviously this is what everyone's going to fucking complain about, but it's like, all right, say someone in California wants to host this big ass me or whatever. And I'm not going to pretend that I'd get the first invite out there. But it's like, all right. He was like, hey, I want you to come out here. It's like, all right, I got to spend fucking 2 grand to get out there. Yeah, to, to win nothing. Yeah, You know what I mean?
So it's like it doesn't it? It doesn't mean that I'm not like grateful for being invited or something like that. Or it's like it doesn't, it's tough. But it's like with all, like we don't make enough to do this full time. You know what I mean? Like we both have jobs. Yeah. It's tough for me to take a week and even to like even to go to Miami or to go to like one of these other sometimes even when they're like drivable distances. Like it's fucking like it's
tough. You're going to do a hotel or an Air B. Like I like to do an Airbnb just so I can cook all my food through like the cut to the refeed to like what I bring to the platform, like all that type of stuff. Like I want to have all that prepped. And so it's like, you need an Airbnb that's fucking expensive. You need all that type of stuff.
Like it's a lot to do. And so it's like, imagine like internationally, like you want to bring someone over from Europe. Or if I want to go to Europe and compete, it's like, yeah, maybe I'm ranked #4 and fucking God knows, whatever. But it's like, all right, doesn't mean I'm going to go to some random big meat. And there's so many like people wanting to throw up, like pro pro or like throw money meat at something or whatever. It's like there's only a couple that can be.
There's only one that's supposed to be like a pinnacle, you know what I mean? Like the IPF gets it right. They have their World Championship, which is the second biggest meet that they host. And then six months later they take what there is like their showcase, their Sheffield, and that's only the Champions and a couple wild cards. So it's like you have only those two meets. There's no just there's no discussion over what's bigger than another.
Yeah, we don't have them. Anyone can throw X amount of dollars at at a competition or whatever and a few good and as they should, and a few good and a few stars are going to show up and then they're going to fill the rest of the field with people who are excellent but not at that level.
Yeah. And I think that's kind of it kind of goes back into like the the IPL meet you did where it's like these meats that call themselves like nationals or the pro Invitational or whatever the fuck, the World Championships. And it's like, it doesn't mean anything, especially when there's 20 different feds across the country that are all running meats every weekend. Like if you want to have a world
championship, it's one fed. And that's why I think the whole fed thing is like there's so many feds because so many people want to get their piece of pie. And kind of one of the things with like the meat I hosted, like I don't, I would run it under any federation. I think that's something that any meat director should have that flexibility to do.
But with the cash prize and stuff, it's something that like if you win, like if you can show up and win, it should be enough to cover your flight, your stay your dinner that night and get maybe get a new pair of nice leaves like. Yeah, it should be. And it's like, I think what some of these feds need to do is they need to say like, look, you're it was like, you know what, you're going to host the prime time of this fucking championship.
It was like instead of you just could, it was like, I'm going to use this as an example or whatever, But it's right are like when the USPA did pro raw or whatever, they were like, you know what, we're just going to fuck it. They were like, we're just going to do this. Like this is going to be the pinnacle for our fed this year. It's there. It's not going to be like a gym
owner or something like that. And it doesn't mean that like like Al Tusar runs an incredible me at the go slash every year. But like the pros go to that. They don't go to the right. They're not going to go to the IPL championships or they're not going to go to PLU nationals necessarily, right, because they have money at this one and sometimes look like locations
matter. I think people need to like, it's kind of conflicting because like these national events, you get so many athletes that come in that there's a lot of income from it, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the national championship. Yeah, what some of those. People like what they need to do is say like, this is fucking God knows what, this is regional, this is whatever. And then your Nationals. Yeah, 2 fucking three flights. That's it. Qualifying totals 1900.
Go fuck yourself. Yeah. And I think that's why what you're saying. The so the ABS does it very, very well. Yeah. They have like a couple of meets that they host in the United States a year and it's on my bucket list to do one of these next year. And I'd like they have it's going to be one event and each of their sessions they call something different. Yeah. And so it's like the morning session is like you're your amateur session or whatever.
Then they have like what they like your Grand Prix or whatever they call it, like the middle session. All of these each have different qualifiers. And then it's like at the end, it's like the top of it is like either fucking invite only or it's like the QT is like the lowest qualifying total I've seen. My weight class is 19, and it's like, you know what? Like that's how it should be. Yeah. You want to get to an absolute like fucking earn it. Yeah. And it should.
It should consistently change with like the current state of the sport. Like if the top 1% is 19, but in two years from now the top 1% goes to 2100, then that should be the QD. Move it and it's like. The other thing I like too is that it's not dot based. It's tougher on our side because you don't have as many, you don't have as many athletes. Like it's just the way it is. And so having QTS based on weight class is difficult. And so with everything being on dots, they don't, no one cares
what the weight classes are. They just cut as low as they, they cut as low as they can go in total as much as they can. And so it's a fucking mathematics equation, which maybe us as engineers kind of like, but everything else is just fucking bullshit. Like it doesn't. There's no battles for anything unless you are sitting there with lifting cast open or whatever saying oh what if this person hits like 5 fucking pounds heavier.
Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's why I kind of like the the reach rumble with or like the you had the big dogs, you had the current like the total. Yeah, it's like, you know what, there's no weight classes. Go fuck yourself. Yeah, it's like you're going to total what it is or like so in in the ABS, what they've done is each they kind of lumped all the weight classes into couple
groups. So I think it was like, because when I looked at what obviously I don't really care what the QTS are at under maybe 242. So it's like anything above 242, your total in 1950 to qualify or 1900 to qualify. And then that middle group is like 220 to 181. And then it's like then you have everyone else. Yeah. So it's like it's not O at 148-160-5181, right? Like no, fuck off. Like are you a small person? Are you an average size person? Are you a big boy? Like exactly.
Those are the pools. That's it. And if you think about it like from the strongman perspective too, it's like they have like their middle weight or whatever, then it's like all right. Everything else, it's like anything over 2. I think it's 231 maybe? Anything over that? It's weird. Yeah, it's weird. So they have what they call like subclasses or whatever. And so they're, I know they're like 2 organizations that do it too, but it's like the weight classes are so much farther apart.
I think it's like like they have like a they have like a one O 5 S 231. I think in some comps they have a 264 and then everything else is wide open and then it's like and then they have I think like a 181 as well and. Then kind of backtracking a little bit as far as like the maybe not the weight classes, but kind of what you're saying before about location kind of mattering.
I think with like shout out Mike Skiba, obviously with like holy wars like him, it's going to a different gym this year, next year is going to move it to a different. Gym. Yeah, yeah. And then next year is going to try to move it to a different place. So having like, I think being able to have like these pro meets, like even the WPO does that. They go from Vegas to Orlando. They're doing it in York this year.
Like if you want to have these high level pro meets and stuff, you should be able to move the locations around the country to where maybe someone can qualify for it. But maybe they are just a blue collar worker or they don't have the time to take off. But oh, it's in their their region this year, they can actually compete. Well, yeah. So it's like, OK, so like in the PLU right now there's I'll use last year as an example, right?
There were three big, I think 4 really big pro meets right. You had you had the ghost Flash with the American pro, you had power surge and then also fighter quit. And so it's like there's one in Vegas, there's one in Chicago, there's one in Miami, and then there's one in I believe the American pros in like Virginia. And so it's like, but all right, so you have three of the most expensive places in the country for starter. It's like, OK, Vegas is insanely
expensive. Miami's very, very expensive. I've never been to Chicago actually, or Vegas, but like can't be cheap either. And so it's like you have all of those and it's, I understand why. It's like, all right, all the sponsorship money is being thrown XY and Z or whatever. It's like, yeah, you want to host this every year, but it's like, why don't you just, I think it was Mike Greeno had this idea.
It's like just alternate years, Ron, you know, do the American Pro and the Ghost Flash like 6 months apart one year. Then the next year do power surge and say fighter quit. Or if anyone else wants to get into the pot right, do those two meets the next year and then alternate. So it's like different locations. You can get like a probably a more competitive meet. More sponsored money, too. More sponsorship money.
You can raise the the qualifiers to get more people to watch and TuneIn and then like it's also like it it otherwise it just dilutes the pot. You know what I mean? Like and so you have your pro meets. Be real fucking pro meets. Yeah. And I think kind of going back to you a little bit before we kind of wrap things up and it's kind of a not much of A Segway, but I know you've had some troubles with deadlifts and
meets. So maybe tell us about what your biggest issue with the deadlift was in me and and how you overcame that solution or are currently? Assuming assuming I have I still I have not hit a third deadlift in years so at this is something I noticed as I started to bulk up. I have If you can see I have very meaty hands and it gets much worse during meat day. They fill up with water and so if you are cold, if you're fresh and you're training right, like I'm agile, I'm nimble, whatever
my hands are very flexible. I can grab on to whatever I've I've held on to north of eight and no issues right after squatting, after benching and all of that. My hands. Are you packing a lip? Then. Same good boy after squatting and bench or whatever, like my hands are really cocked back too, because it's not something you guys see and equipped as much you do and bench to no end. But like, OK, you like can squat. Your hand is in a little bit more like normal of a position, I'd say yeah.
So it's like it doesn't balloon like that or whatever, but like there's a shit to a fucking watermark. I can't make a fist. And so it's like I'll hit my opener and drop my second and third and I'm like you fuck, like fuck me, you know what I mean? And so it's like, I've always had that problem. Like I think I've, I haven't hit 3 poles in a meet in four years. And so it's like it was like, all right, what like what the fuck is the fix? I didn't know what to do.
It was like, and as I got heavier, it became more and more of a problem. And so kind of what I've learned to do is kind of fix like because I used to cut pretty hard and I wouldn't do like a got cut. So like, I don't know if you ever like really had to cut hard for. So what you kind of do is there's a there's a few ways you can do it.
You can manipulate water and sodium and you can manipulate like the like when you call it gut cut, where you just basically load up on unsaturated fats and that type of shit and kind of flush out a couple extra pounds. That way. It's it's so you don't have to manipulate water. And then if you have to cut really hard to do both, Yeah, with the water one, right.
You're so depleted on electrolytes by the end of it because you're you're manipulating and you're using the loss of sodium to flush everything out that it's like, all right, I can't compete this way. You got to put everything fucking back. And so you absorb so much fucking water and you have so much sodium in your system that you absorb water, you become a
fucking balloon. And so that used to happen to me all the time where it's like I drop fucking deadlifts or, and it'd be I wouldn't know what was happening about it because it wouldn't even happen if I like the first thing I was like is like, all right, maybe we got to make sure we squat and deadlift in the same like session. I'll do like a shit ton of squat volume before I even touch a pole. And it was like, all right, like I thought that would work.
Still kind of didn't. And it was like I switched from sumo to conventional with that. I still hit or miss or whatever, but so it's like, all right, what am I doing? And then so it was like, I think the only time I had it figured out, dogs going a little crazy over there, but it was like at the ghost clash last year, they had APT in the warm up room who literally took my arms and threw them into Norma Tex. Yep. And literally like I was sitting there like this, literally just like fucking.
I just bought the leg ones, they're amazing. He used the leg ones and he just threw my arms in them. They use the leg ones on your arms. Yes, they have arm ones. It's the coolest I've ever felt in my life. Although my nipple was almost removed as they were. And so it's like that fixed it. But also, that meet was super slow. It was kind of similar to what you guys do. Where like, it was one session and four flights.
Yeah. So deadlifts took 2. I had two hours between each lift where it's like some of these meats like you look at like the app platform or whatever. 20 minutes. Yeah, they absolutely. They'll get through a session in 2 1/2 hours. And so it's like you're fucked. You know what I like? If your hands are blown, you have no time to get it out. And so I've done like I've done icing like that helped a little
bit. Like when I did that IPL meet or whatever, they had a complimentary drink cooler in the warm up room and Carlos Reyes had given me the idea. That's exactly what I did. Carlos Reyes was like, you should try icing your hands or whatever to me. I don't pass. Tonight. I had a big issue and so I walked into the complimentary cooler, just said get the fuck out of my way and just went. Yeah, and. Just held it there for 20. And that's something that that's honestly a very common issue in
multiplying. It's usually because when you're benching seven, 800 lbs, like your hands just blow up. It's the same thing. And some people just, they fucking deal with it and they just don't have a good pole. But I I've, I've known icing your hands worse, obviously being able to like massage and remove that fluid from your hands. Like there's, there's like caffeine, yeah, there's caffeine creams that work too that can reduce inflammation. There's there's you can try a
bunch of different things. Yeah, I haven't seen the caffeine cream. I've done NSAID cream, that helped a little bit. I did like AI got put on a massage table and they did like some exercises to help flush. That's helped. I've done the buckets of ice that it's OK It's kind of a dumb way to think about doing it, right? It's a little bit more old school, but that still works to an extent, right. The normal text has been aggressive.
And that's not exactly something realistic that you can expect every single time. Yeah. But like, all those type of things have kind of worked. And I've become a much better meat puller. Yeah, I will. Like, I usually, like, the first time I ran into this issue, it was like I was expecting to pull like 780 and I got stuck at 7:05. Yeah, like I dropped 750 twice. And I was ready to do some bad things afterwards, like it was not fucking good.
And so like now I think I have a better scope, like understanding of it. And I think the meat that I'm doing in December, which is RPS, it's kind of a platform at a showcase, I think it's a little bit slower pace. And so I might be able to like, kind of finally fucking hit a third pole. Yeah, and I was going to be my next question with the king of the platform kind of what's the what's the game plan for that meet take?
Advantage of every RPS rule imaginable, which means I will be fully naked for all three lifts. And especially being in Florida, I kind of just want to compete barefoot for some fucking reason. I don't know why it's gross, but I kind of want to do it. Interesting. And then I guess. I'm kind of kidding, but like if I'm pulling conventional I'm probably going to do a barefoot. All right. I mean, I'm not I'm kind of a fan of it.
It's not like a definitely, especially if it's hot, you're going to get that extra grip on the floor. That's also true. And I believe the women go the day after as opposed to the day before. So the the platform will be a little bit cleaner. Yeah, at least there will be a lot of sweat and blood on it, but at least no other bodily fluids. Yeah. So I guess kind of to wrap things up. Kind of. We'll talk about piss, yeah? Yeah, kind of beyond the
platform. So do you have any kind of long term goals in terms of coaching, directing or maybe something else with your your biomedical background and powerlifting? So I don't really have any aspiration to coach, to be quite honest. Like I don't it's kind of weird now because like everyone fucking thinks that they're entitled to a roster of athletes and things that they can make this full time. Like and you see someone with like a fucking 1100 LB total try and say like, hey, I'm ready to
take on fucking. So it's like, are you kidding me? Like first I was like, you have no business for starters. But it's like I've also, it's like a little bit of imposter syndrome where it's like, who the fuck am I to justify taking on clients or whatever and charge a realistic rate for what would actually be Like this is something that can truly supplement my income because like I'd feel bad charging more than like 80 bucks a month.
You know what I mean? Because it's like, I don't have a fucking like I haven't been coaching people forever. And obviously I understand you ramp up. There's only one way you can start. But it's like, and at that rate, I don't like it's so much work. Why would I fucking bother? And so it's like I I got AI still. I was involved. I've ref in the WRPF and then they transferred over the PLU. And so I think I'm still in that program.
I still get to do the some of the trainings for it or whatever, but just because there's no meats around me to do it. But I'm happy to ref when I'm not in prep. I do want to eventually direct because it's kind of a big thing. And like you've been a director, like it is a very rewarding experience, especially fucking exhausting. Oh. My God, I was dead.
The mental draining of it is fucking awful, but it's like I do want to do that too, because like there's there needs to be better meats that are like there needs to be a good model if meet up here, to be quite honest, like I want to find a gym, whether it be at evolve, whether it be at like, you know, like
lightning is a massive facility. I want to do like a real good raw monolith with me and see who will go because I like I was trying to direct for the WRPF last year, but their requirements are very, very strict, which they should be. Yeah, You have, you have to be a ref, you have to know how to, you have to spot load, you have to do a bunch of other things
too. And so I was in the process of get of like meeting those requirements and then the whole thing happened where they split into this other and I was like, I don't know. I don't know what to do. Yeah. And so I definitely do want to direct probably in like Massachusetts, New Hampshire, you know, maybe Rhode Island or Maine or something like that. Because like when I was doing that, I had 25 people say, let
me know when it drops. Like I want to do this, but like I'm waiting for the right time to do it. I think next next year I might want to and say, you know what, whether it be whether I hit up RUPA would evolve or like somewhere around there was like, you know, I want to fucking run this. Like I have the it'll be like I have the time because I don't really plan on competing too, too much in 26. I want to do 1 meet. I want a total 2K on a power bar and like walk it out.
And then other than that, I don't care because like I'm competing in December, so I'm not going to do like 3 meets. And so like, maybe that's the right time to direct, but like, I, it just needs to happen. It sucks like New Jersey that there's a group in New Jersey that runs fucking amazing meats. It's run by the George Rosheni. And he has a couple people that give him a hand and they do a fucking incredible job.
And like, and I've been talking to them about like, maybe like, and they showed interest and slowly expanding up. It was like, OK, we'll do 1 in Connecticut and then just see if we can keep going right? But I don't know, like, I think it's just they've had so much going on that there hasn't been traction there. And so I like, I want to fucking do it. Yeah, I think it'd be pretty cool to see, but we can kind of wrap things up here. So I'll ask you my last question.
If you could give a new powerlifter or someone going into their first meet a word of advice, what would you tell them? You said the only thing that we can't say is have fun, right? Yep. I think the big thing is so as you're leading, so at least no people that like have competed before and they don't need to go
with you or anything like that. But like see if you can train with some people who understand what's going on and make sure you understand the rules or the cadence of how something's going to go. Because like I can read the fucking rule book and say, OK, it's kind of going to look like this and you watch it and it's probably super fucking overwhelming. Like that happened to me at my first me too. And I, I had a handler.
It was my friend who was sitting in the crowd and he was baked and just giving me a thumbs up for me to go up. One of my best friends to this day. But all that was all that happened. I picked him up. It was a four hour drive to the meet. So like I was all alone back
there for a little bit. And so like have an idea of what it's going to look like, whether that means go into one, whether that means like, you know, you kind of are around people that do, whether it means trying to bring someone who knows going on what to then can like handle you or something like that. Like I think a lot of people know what the rules are and they just kind of like have like a little bit of a brain fart and just kind of fuck up and jump a command or something like that.
Or like because I know like in in some of the multiply meets there's no start command on certain lists, like there's no start command on bench. And I think it's the APF or something like that. I'm not sure about them, but I know for the IPA there is not. So it's like, say I were to do it and I'm sitting there locking out fucking. I have my own ground there for 15 seconds and I'm turning around saying what the fuck? Like what are we doing here? Right? Something like that.
Like understand the cadence of it and maybe you won't have like a brain fart or something like that. Or if it's like if you wanted to go do like a WRPF or fucking whatever and it's like you just immediately get the bar and just drop, you're like, you're going to look like a dumb ass. So it's like I think the case if you understand that you won't be as anxious going in and then like everyone's going to fucking tell you to open light. But I think like I think that's
pretty fucking good advice. But it's but it's like, I think it's like open light and under like I don't want to say understand that you're having, but it's like, don't be afraid to take a swing in a mess to be quite like open light. So you hit like your first and 2nd and then like, you know what, yeah, fuck it, you're not going to Like if it's your first meet, you're probably not shooting for best lifter here. Sure, take a stab at a 500 deadlift or something like that.
Like what do you fucking do? You drop it like at some point in time, like you're be a little bit relaxed and you'll you'll feel a little bit more normal. Yeah, I think I agree with you with what you said before. I think kind of to put it simply, like try to get some sort of learning experience before you step onto the platform, whether it be like you said, go into a meet talking to someone that's competed or even kind of like running through like a mock meet type thing in
your gym. So. Yeah, that does look very fucking corny though sometimes. So. Yes, yes it does. Depending on the gym that you choose, that may look really fucking stupid. I totally agree. Well, I wanted to thank you again for taking the time to come on. It was my pleasure. Yeah, no, of course. Yeah, this fucking kicked ass. I'm definitely down to do it again.