Player's Lounge: You Don't Start Here

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This is the Players Lounge, broadcasting live from Dallas Cowboys World headquarters at the Star. Now your hosts, Barry Church, Heckma Harrison, and Newie Scrugs.

It is time for the Players loundes right here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com, brought to you by Aristocrat Gaming. We've got a special guest with us. He is mister forth DeLong, North Carolina National champion. He is Jesse Holly filling in for Barry Church. Mister Holly, former Cowboys special Teamy wide receiver, appreciate you being here like you Hem Harrison and me Newie Scruggs. As the Cowboys are getting closer to their Monday night game against the Cincinnati Bengals,

Damn it, man, this has been that kind of year every I mean, you're losing guys, You're losing key players, and in those twelve and five seasons.

Man, I think we just got spoiled.

The Cowboys were really lucky to have their health in those seasons, man, and that's why you would have expected them to make a deeper run into the playoffs because of the injuries. But losing a guy like Zach Martin, it can't be good. You've lost Michael Parsons for parts of the year for a very long time, Dak is gone, So I mean this team has been beat to hell, and you lose a piece like Zach Martin, man, that

I feel worse for the person. Like I know that the team lost yeah of their best offensive linemen. I feel bad for the person because no way, shape or form that in the mind frame and the mindset that the mind thinking of Zach Martin that he think his career ultimately would end on the ir you know, And there has been talks and I'm leaning like every most

Happened and It sucks.

It absolutely sucks because the compassionate person in me, the empathetic person in me, goes, boy, you would have liked for that dude to have all of the individual accolades. But also to say, boy, I did some other magical things in the playoffs. I got to a super Bowl. I did some pretty special things. But he'll end his career and it will be start the clock. It'll be start to clock the canton and uh and see how this thing pans out for him.

But I mean, with an incredible career for a guy like Zach, I don't mean to be putting dirt on them already, but you know the writings on the wall for for who he is as a player I was sending the other show. Now, I'm not saying that he completely dead because if for some odd reason, the Joneses decide and this offseason that's not their forte.

But they were resetting this year to get some more money. If they go and grab a couple of them high level free agents, like you know, the ones that you know, the ones that come out early, you know, you know talking about the ones though day one ones, the ones that actually come into your team and make a significant.

Difference in the game changes.

They're gonna grab a few of those and some draft picks, and now O.

Martin may say, you know what, see you guys in oxygen?

Are you gotting? Are you in? Are are you in? Or you're out on that?

What?

What? What would stop him?

Rock hoffmin ain't stopping him if he wanted to come back for So if he looks up and he goes, oh, Jerry playing again, I'm gonna stay out here on this ranch and it's tend of these horses and playing with my kids on they off days and do all that stuff. But if you look up and go, hold on now, oh he signed him, Oh we got him too, hold on now, let me see, let me see if they so.

Then let me throw this at you. As a player, when you get to that point time and you say, man, I watch the tape and I see me and that's not who I have been before. When does that hit you and you can look at it and say that ain't me. We always are the last ones to know. And that's the reason why you there's very few people who get this ceremoniously walk away. Most of the time.

Most of the time they kick you out because we're the last ones to know.

We always think, but.

If I can, just if we just if we do it, I get and you don't have it right, And we're the last ones to know. And for him, he may look at the tape and go, well, I'm healthy now. I've been dealing with these two bone these bone spurs and his ankle, and I'm you know, i ain't had to deal with no all season stuff.

I'm fresh now. No da da da. You know I've been here, these these kids making a lot of noise, right, these kids, you.

Having a lot, you know, the missus ain't. I ain't never had a honey do list. I ain't never had a honey do list. I didn't know she talked this damn much. Yeah, hey, coach, what y'all are?

What y'all doing? Because because she, oh, this is what you do all day when I in right, because you one thing about retirement, you have to you have to interject yourself back into the normal life of the family. Got the other way around.

They've been functioning a certain way your ten years that you've been in the league. You gotta now find yourself back today. And that might not be where you want to be.

So stay here on the player, having an understanding of it's not what I used to be. Just right here. You check the media guy and where they have your name, and then they start to list your Pro bowls. So Zachmartin Pro Bowl twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three. There will not be one there for twenty twenty four. So twenty twenty and twenty twenty fourth

You know what I see twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seven, I.

Don't see twenty twenty and twenty twenty four as a player, I don't.

I go, there's a reason for that.

Inside of me is still twenty fifteen, twenty, seventeen, twenty like, you know what I'm saying, Like the twenty twenty, twenty twenty four, those are outliers. I go, there's a lot more of.

The fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty one, twenty two, twenty three than it is the twenty twenty, the twenty twenty four. Like, that's the mentality that athletes have. And so we try to figure out how to what can I I can get back. I could do one more time. I can get back to one of those things, one more time.

I have enough knowledge, you know, if I could just stay healthy, right, I could just stay healthy. I can I can still do this. I can still.

Do this at a high rate. But again, we're always the last ones to know. And then you commit to him and he gets out there, and then he's halfway through and he goes, oh, that young boy across from me, real good. He's big, strongly fast, and my techniques don't work no more.

And I don't.

I'm not as reactive as I once was before. And then that's when they kind of go they go, yeah, bro, he go, yeah.

I know that's you know, hey, the bad news is in two years, Jalen Carter is going to be unblockable.

That's the bad news.

You got guys in the league gets get bigger and faster and stronger, and you don't.

Get away from him. In Division Sexy Dex.

He ain't going over there.

Carter ain't going nowhere, Washington. The bad boys be back full strength again next year. So you got those young boys, you gotta look across from and go I used to.

I used to dominate this league.

And now these young boys looking at me like you fool man, you fool, come here, come here, come in, come here, o man.

Let me get a little piece of that. So eleven years, eleven years of outstanding football, and this is my opinion. Heck, Jesse, please tell me yours. The question to me, now, is he a not if he's going in the Hall of Fame, it's going in the Hall of Fame. You look at he's a guard. You look at other guards and the statistics and everything. Zach is right there. Is it your first ballot Hall of Fame? That to me is the only question at this point in time, is going into

To me?

I just I think you look at his career and obviously you're gonna judge him against those guards that are in the Hall of Fame Right now, without having a list on there, I can just say off the top of my dome that he is comparable to some of the greats that are played in the game. Some of the questions that are going to be asked is obviously super Bowls and things of that nature. I think those you know, if you criticize him based off of that,

And I think that's the tough question.

Is the guys that you believe were great that did not get in on the first ballot. So the argument can be made, but there are other arguments to be made. D Ware didn't get in on the first ballot. Yeah, there are other names that didn't get in, you know, first ballot Hall of Fame that had to that should have.

I think first ballot. I think when you start looking how those lists, because it's always you know what, guys that we're still trying to get in, right, you know what I'm saying, that that may cover the spot that may keep you out for being the first ballot Hall of Famer. And I think we've come We've come to a list where the seventies, eighties, those ninety guys that we've kind of got those pretty much they're in in,

He's out there with gene upshot. When you talk about the greatest ever at the position of guard that he's in there com like you know, they're they're gonna come over to the table, Come on you right now. That's why I said, for me, in another hall, like Dion, I know that who.

Who I think it is, we.

Ad the same table. He might be able to say, how we all at the same table is a different table in the same deal. We got different views. Yes, yes, you know I mean Zach Martin. Nego tells that.

Come on to the sit down here. And that's why I say the question is not about being in the Hall of Fame for Zach Martins, whether or not he's a first ballot. And for me, when I think of first ballot, that's a guy that when we sit there, hey, oh yeah, yeah, he was him when he played that, he was him. And you know that's the I'm old enough to remember the Senior Bowl practice when it was Aaron Donald against Zach Martin, and down in Mobile, Alabama,

Johnny.

People already made the font, they've already went the trouble that.

I'm about to be the lead of the newscat. We're about to go deep on Johnny Fief Johnny football coming to the Cowboys. And I thought it was happening because I remember going to that Cotton Bowl game when they dusted up Oklahoma. How the seats were full of Jerry was excited, man, people buying all the money. It was all about Johnny. I said, it's about to happen, so I'm ready to do this thing. And they don't do it, and they draft Zach Martin and they're like, who's Zach

Yeah, I didn't know. Nobody watching, but like, no, he can help.

But it was also Zach Martin and Aaron Donald in practice, yes, in that Senior Bowl. Then the Cowboys training training. Yes, yeah, they went total to in practice again, tossing each other. I mean it was great, great, But that for me is my lives.

I mean, man, I remember sitting, okay, get my makeup on, it's about to happen. Jerry, like, Jerry can't. I remember telling the producer it was Katie and she works over to ab secret morning. I said, Jerry can't help, he can't, he can't. Jerry loves his dude. But little did I know Stephen, and you know, they locked him.

As somebody made somebody made sense, and that that whole build up to the draft. It was like you knew it was about to happen, and it almost happened, like almost unceremoniously to him. All right, nobody really like you didn't kick over the table because it was that, But still's like a guard from none of the dame boy that was who he talked about just in the nikked time. You got the guy that you needed. And man, he's he's done.

Well.

Man, I hate I don't want to hear it end like this. I mean hearing it from a former player when you say, man, we're the last to know, and you're thinking about a guy that's had such a great career and I don't want my last images of him to be being beat on.

The field by Britt Brown. And I don't want that, you know.

And we don't get to decide how our heroes and guys that have played this game get to walk off the field. But man, when you see it happen the right way, you got to appreciate it even more because a guy like this deserved all of the fruits of his labors and not being able to, you know, not being able to get to a super Bowl in his time.

As a player.

I think would be the biggest regret as an organization and as a fan base for him, because he was so good.

Going to speak to that, you're the listeners. If you don't know, Hecma's uncle is the greatest defensive tackle and for history. Joe Green, I don't know how Joe. I don't know what his final games were. I don't know. I don't remember and recall. All I know is in the biggest moments in the history of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He was out there whooping some tail and he won for Super Bowls, and so I don't know how. I don't remember how it ended.

Pinch Nerve pens Nerve took him out and his back couldn't play anymore, wasn't the same, wasn't the same, couldn't couldn't get ready for games, and it kind of unceremoniously ended. You know, you would rather him walk off with rose pedals, you know, the way that the champions should be celebrated, and sometimes it doesn't happen that way.

I don't remember how it ended. For too Tall, Yeah, you know, I don't know. Man, Just think about disc For Drew Pearce, I just think I don't really remember how did it end.

That's weird.

I don't remember. I just know that it's to me Joe Montana. I don't know how it ended for Joe. I mean, we played for Kansasity. I don't remember.

But just because a lot of a lot of our favorites, the greats, the ones we hold in the upper echelon of our football memory and history.

You don't get to go out your way some of us, some of them do. The gladiator sports rarely let you go. They some of them get you gracefully by wild You get to have your Kobe Tour, and you get to, you know, shake hands and kiss babies a lot of time in this game. The game hands you and opens up the door and say get gone. The gladiators, the boxers, Yeah, that's the worst players, that's the worst now in the UFC. The gladiator sports you really don't get. You don't really

One.

I don't really, you know, I just you know, you just don't. I mean, Tyson, I know, the Lennox Lewest thing. I'll let me please stop. You know, even Roy Jones, I can't remember the dude to beat him up when he was fifty. But I mean sometimes you just kind of put it out of your mind because you want to remember the great. You want to and that's what that he was great. That player was great. And that's

I told him, your son, you laid up. That's a layup.

It's a golf you just lay it up. So make no risk while the cowboys being risky and what you guys, you go and get left Hackle, who's a now a guard? Can't sell no seventy jerseys. It was so dispects like this what to work?

But yet they worked out perfect.

Jerry's going to, you know, put him in the Ring of Honor.

Yep.

And depending on who Zach wants to present him in the potentially Jerry could present him in the Hall of Fame. And that to me would be pretty ironic the thing. And I hope if Jerry does, I hope Jerry put that in speech. Yeah you know, I really didn't want you. He won't see that I messed up, Thank goodness. I let everybody will McLeay and my son and my choice and the people who did their due Dillon's and say, now hold on playing, hold on player?

How interesting that decision? Would you don't want that?

All right? That's our first segment right here the Cowboys and uh, we don't know Zach Martin is going to retire, but but if he does, all of us agree that he was a fantastic player. Hall of Famer job Well, Jesse Holly, Heck Mayerson, he scrossed players. Not bot to you by Aristocrat Gaming on Dallas Cowboys Dot. Hey there, Cowboys Nation.

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Rhythm and Blue They're good. They're good. They get out there, they get after it. Led by Jenny Durbin, former North Carolina cheerleader by the way, Jesse Jenny Durbin, So she leads that crew out there to do good job.

Was you out there with Jared telling that story? Was you out there with Rowdy? Lef Uh at the establishment?

Where were you?

Where were you in those days?

What part of town?

What?

What towns were you rolling around in in those days? When? When when the good old rowdy left the mobile?

Uh?

Around those establishments?

Where you know?

You got me confused for the other maker man, I asked him too. Now I know that, I know that I know him personally.

Yes, the stories get better and better, but I was not there. Was that there?

That not there? Yeah, mother mother dog. He has more up, closer personal story. But I said, he got the he got the cackling like yeah, yeah, I said, Okay, I don't know. I mean, this is what it was. He look, I mean back in the day. I mean, especially you want, if you want to really get to the players, the locker room wasn't it. It was Monday night in some of those places, you had opportunities to have more conversations with them. So there you go, there you go, there you go.

Yeah, we've been asking talking about that empathy uh factor for the for the injuries, and I think a lot of people were leading up and we were talking about that last week about how injured the team was, but also the talent on this roster. Coming into the season, there were those that believe, like, look, this team is going nowhere fasts, What are you doing in the running back room, what do you have for white receivers? All

Win this next game, and to your point is, look what you want with do we forget what you lost with you, You lost with your quarterback, you lost when you lost with Zach Martin, you lost with Michael Parson, was in the lineup when the Saints routed you, when you lost to Baltimore, when you got embarrassed by Detroit.

No, you gotta give me four more.

Years, like as a as a as a coach, you put me back in the same position again. Sure, and now the locker room also understands, well, you're only gonna be here for a year. And then now do you do you what more snip snip are you gonna do to me? Are you gonna tell me who I gotta now have call plays? Are you gonna tell me now who I have to have as my defensive coordinator? Are you gonna tell me now what assistance I can and

But the power struggle, now, the power struggle here is never gonna change.

You know who's gonna pick that? I mean, So that's then, and.

That's my point. Like I think a lot of times we we've talked about, you know, Jerry in the front office and those giving him what if Mike says, you know what, I've been in this thing for four years.

I've got my name back out there. I'm I'm outside. There's some job that will come open up that I'll get an opportunity to. Maybe I don't want to come back here and deal with this again. Good for him, Maybe I don't. Maybe I don't want to deal with the power structure again. Maybe I don't want to deal with On Monday, I'm trying to keep the injury report under wraps and tell who may or may not play. But as I go on at nine o'clock, my boss comes on at eleven o'clock and he tells them everything

Hold on, here's what I need in there?

Another guy that's not the guy that we want to know, Jesse, you don't believe that dude, So yeah, I do.

So remember were talking about before ask you do you give him justice? You get what you deserve because you said, hey, you had your full string for the same full string, So you go get what you deserve? Or do you allow him some grace? You don't get what you deserve? Because did I give you a running back room?

It was a or B.

I gave you a C running back room? Did I improve this d line? Like we said, no, did I go?

Did I go?

I got something that's never been You're asking for accountability that ain't happening.

What is but I'm saying for for Mike? Do you give him what he deserves and saying your rec you are with your record? Or do you allow him some grace when you don't get what you deserve because you've admitted you as a general manager you weren't GMing enough. No.

No, because at the end of the day, it comes down to, uh, what was the scene when smoking was in the room and his mom said run down to the store, she give him money.

He go, hey, this ain't enough, make it enough. So you go into justice. Then you go get what he deserves. You say, your record, you are what you record sition.

So that's so in saying that A initially, that's what I was saying from the beginning. I listened to your show. I know exactly you from the beginning of the season, You're like, this is not enough talent on this roster.

You needed more to win with.

And if you thought this was gonna get you back to twelve and five, you gave me bare bones. You were saying that the carpenter doesn't have his tools. All of those things were in there. So look, if you're gonna get any of that, now is the time to say to Mike brou we set you up all right.

Now, let's come on back in here. Let's get this right.

I don't think Mike gets to the point where he's like, I can go, I can go to the go here to the Saints.

Will you say that?

Is this the Cowboys, Jesse.

I've experienced it. I've experienced it, and this is what has gotten me. I've experienced it. It's the Cowboys. I've come over here.

There are premier jobs in the NFL.

You I gave you three twelve and five seasons and that wasn't enough for you to look at me as somebody who was worth a contract extension. After that, then you set me up and now you you you you want to make a deal. So I hear you on that aspect. But this is a question I would have as Mike McCarthy and his agent go to the market, because he is a free agent actor this year. Who wants him? And how do you sell him? Okay, New

I'm gonna tell you, Hey, here's what I did when I had the quarterback. He well, I don't know if he can go to the Jets of Ary Rodgers gonna be today already they greasing his kids. But I go and I go, hey, listen, when when when they gave me what I needed? I was I was twelve, I was twelve or five? Right, three straight seasons? Now I know what happened when against Green Bay. And if I'm Mike McCarthy, I go probably my defensive coordinator who you know who?

I didn't.

Actually, you know, I had to agree to bring him on, but I don't really that was my first choice to bring him on.

Uh he will.

Look the other jobs were supposed to getting ready for a playoff game and that that didn't work well for us.

But here's what I am able to do. I can, I can.

I can get funky when you give me something to get funky with. You know what I'm saying now. The last year, y'all see with Derek Carr. Y'all, see y'all see.

What it is.

You know what I mean.

I'm gonna continue to put on there. You know, I had a quarterback and now he was second with the v P Roader votings. He he has some of his best years under me. I'm telling all that anything I can sell him to.

That he's gonna fix Williams list.

Okay, look, this is weird because you're the guy who sow me on Mike, because if you've been watching my show, I called him Michael Pittsburgh.

I jumped off.

I jumped off to the ship. I was like, jump off. I said, I'm not here. I take you over to I'm going yeah North final break in here, Jesse Holly former Cowboys Maharrison, I'm scotch this show lay Side Focky by Aristocrat Gaming on Dallas Cowboys.

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Hack Maharrison in the house, appreciate, thank you very much. We have Jesse Holly, former Cowboy receiver.

I am new e struct man.

He'll brought to you by Okay, you.

Never know what you.

Yo.

Listen, you never know what you're gonna get with me, but you're gonna get old of me.

That's what we need. We need. You need to do a live show, bro, That's what you need.

You need a live show, people, because if you go stand up on the desk like that, but people need to see you live. Now.

This is I pay a ticket to see it. Yeah, let's go.

Okay he safe? Oh yeah for sure.

By the way, we got Thursday and that football got Thursday. In my assurance company, CEO got killed the other day. I got I gotta check the assurance out, bro, see how things is going over there.

I'm just saying, we're moving to him next year, so might coven him next We're going back into this. I gotta I gotta make sure my things is. Man, I'm gonna get out of this business. When I saw my limbs making was making ten mill, I need I'm in the wrong business. What do I need to get? I need to get up out of this CEOs. You making that kind of you don't want to get that. You don't want to get in that political situation right about now?

Now.

You get a whole bunch of people around me. Go get a couple of young boys like my man Jared.

Got the boy.

I'm gonna call ros Rosie what you're doing now?

So I'm gonna that's all up.

Go catch me a million. I'm in the wrong bit. People come to me to hey, man, you talk to my kid. Kid got the industry? Like, you don't want to talk to me? I do. I tell you, I want to talk to me.

You're not the guty to go to the ass man. How did it work for you? You telling bare Bones? What was you making your first gig? You told us that what hundred dollars a week? Three hundred a week? So it was one time. Uh back when Keith Russell was a channel left.

We're the Mavericks. Hey want you to meet so and so she's trying to get the business. Give us some advice. I said, how much time you got left? The two years? I say, you got time to become a business man. I say, you know, I'm gonna tell you. I tell you, okay, be the person who owns a team, not slapping around like me. Who's talking about it was? It was the crew at w R A L t V and Roley Durham who told me don't get in this business.

Don't do it.

Nah.

I'm like nah, I like to TV. Oh, we guys get to talk to Dan Smith. I'm like, I want to do this is the basic. They're like, don't do it. Go go to law school, you know, go get a business, go do something like Man, I was too stupid because that was back when when Bill Clinton was president. Like any stock you put down and made a bunch of money, I should have gone into the hedge fund industry. You could owned the team, own the team, done some of that kind of thing, man, And instead of sitting up

Man.

It's like, no, don't come to me these dreams I have, Like, this business is.

Not what it was when I got Tom Ever neezer, gentlemen, don't emmy emmy with it.

Did that?

Yes, I'm like, I got, I've got, I've got. Okay, I'm telling you I've been successful in this and I'm telling you no, I have done just about everything I ever thought I could do in this injuryment. I've had some great moments. Man, I'll never forget the first Super Bowl, man, San Diego Jets flying over. Man, I'm sitting here Watch. Get ready to watch John Lway fourteen point underdog go up against the Green Bay Pack. Watch the game was great.

Man.

I've lived a fantastic dream going to the Dean Dome to see North Carolina play when they took on Florida State the year they won the national championship with the greatest comebacks they ever had, a twenty two point come back. I've seen the greatest things. I've been wanting to cover the Cowboys. Man. I covered Magic Johnson with the Lakers. Man, fabulous for it. I was there when Kobe came and Shot came. To Dude, I have lived a fantastic dream

It is.

It is fun, but at the same time, there's things that you can and cannot do.

How many rich, miserable guys do you know?

Hey man, let me be one of them. You let me find out.

Oh gosh.

Again a couple of them.

Yeah, let me know them.

Let me find out you know what you know? And I'll be okay. Now I got I got this Bible, and there's gonna be some verses that tell me what to do. So I'll be okay, I'll be okay rich, and I'll give some money. I'll be all right. But when I just tell people this is not what you think it is. And now and you see them, just you seeing these kids come in here. Now I have to work getting in Christmas man, little I remember I've had to tell people, what do you back up?

Mean?

Back up me?

You work Christmas night? You back up me and one man one man's or trying to make it fair? Now you know you got off Christmas New Year's and I got a contract. But I used to work these holidays. Now kids come in over that I don't want to work that damn man, my family, but I want to go. I want to go see my family. Know what I used to do? Tell my family, Hey, cowboys play three o'clock. Everything's given. You want. You want to spend thanks in me,

I'm here.

This is what I do. Wow, I spent my life in the last twenty years.

What we do right, It's what this is.

I tell people, I live in two seasons, football season on football season. A lot of these kids don't want that. And depending you you know, where you live in our industry dictates how your life is revolved around. All my friends in the Carolinas, they know you don't take off March, and you don't take off April because a tournament is around here and somebody's gonna be at the final four,

Man?

Colonal? I want to be off. They want fair.

I want fair that I want to be equal with Hey, don't ask Newie, No they asked, but I try to be cutting.

You don't want to talk to me. Cut this look, cut this out. Put it in the video for new He send it to him. So in the hill, what do you think?

What's your number?

I'm gonna send you this little click clip and they got it. I don't want to lead Dallas. You mean you leave?

You gotta go.

I'm like, do you not understand, like mind League Baseball? No, you don't start off playing for you go to the chit lit circuit. You gotta go. You gotta go somewhere. And what's your tall for? Hey, Jackson, that's if you're lucky enough to get to a place where you're next to a state uret. You may have to go out to Utah, you may have to go out to the area Arizona, somewhere. You may have to go somewhere coal

You're talking about man, Yeah, you came in with a lot of controversy today. I'm taking Green Bank with Detroit.

Okay, you taking on green I'm going green Bay DETROITCE. Got the injuries. Got the injuries, man, got the injuries are piling up. I mean, dude, if Matt eberflus knew how to call the game, they probably have to go to overtime and lose against Chicago after having the lead. The injuries are piling up.

What's uh?

You know what?

Give me green Bay to win this one? Thirty one twenty seven. Wow, all right, I'm tonight. Yeah, this is where's the game gonna be CBS. It's gonna be up in Detroit and Detroit. Come on, man, give me, give me twenty eight. I'm gonna twenty twenty four, twenty eight, twenty four Lions. Okay, we're gonna fall further behind the pits.

I'm gonna go thirty five twenty four Detruth.

The Detroit Football Jesse Alli, thank you for coming in here.

Appreciation's always on scores.

This is the players Lounge. We will talk to you tomorrow right here on dallaskytwish dot com.

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