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This is the Players Lounge, broadcasting live from Dallas Cowboys World headquarters at the Star. Now your hosts Barry Church, Danny McCrae, Heckma Harrison, and new He Shrugs.
Here we go Players Lounge right here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio, brought to you by Aristocrat Gaming. The players, Bury Church and Danny mccraye have the day. Also, it is us Heck mayersons here, I'm new He Scruggs. We will roll with you talking Cowboys for the next forty five minutes.
We're here at the Star Frisco.
Of course, the team is out in Oxnar, California, at training camp. Tomorrow is a joint practice with the Los Angeles Rams, so they got one more.
Day to get ready for that.
This is a good time to see players because a Zeke Kelly is not playing in the preseason game, so this work in the joint practices is really the work that We're going to see the starters here and also hack the opportunity to see some of these young guys that can look good against your guys, how do you look against Sean mcvays boys, Who are some players that you're looking at.
That you want to see, you know, I think one, I'm sure all of these guys are looking forward to the opportunity to come up against different oppositions. They're probably tired running into each other. But these young guys, I mean, we have a young linebacker group that I think a guy like Maurice lea foul out of Notre Dame, is showing the coaches that he could be a centerpiece on
this defense. His versatility, a guy that can play at the line of scrimmage, a guy that can also play off ball that really does free up a player like Michael Parsons. You also have excuse me, Marshaun Kneeling, our draft picked. There is another guy that is showing promise you on him to show give you even more because of Sam Williams going down. So I think he's another one amongst that young group that you want to see.
But also Carson number forty one, our draft pick. He has been probably one of the more surprising guys coming out of camp for and you listen to guys like Nick Harris talk about and just rave about him and his physicality. I think this is a group of rookies that's gonna get thrust into the spotlight pretty fast.
And so.
It's enough of hearing about you being whether they used to say all Valley Ranch, it's enough of that all Oxnar. Now we get an opportunity to see what you could do against live competition. And we know in the past those joint practices with the rams Man they've gotten heated. There have been some brawls, and if you followed the NFL closely, all over the NFL guys are brawling in camp.
So I think the same thing's gonna happen tomorrow.
I think you hit on a point were said, guys are tired of seeing each other. So now it's new too, it's new people, it's fresh bodies and that next level as you're talking about younger players and players who are trying to solidify who they are to let the coaches know, Okay, hey, it wasn't just against you know, our guys, I'm doing it against another NFL team out here. And Sean McVay is one of the better coaches in the National Football
League and they usually have a very good squad. So yes, it will get Chippy go back to Carson the kid from Wake Force. Are the Cowboys starting to get to the point where they know how to identify corner talent like they do offensive Blindman?
In your opinion, you got to give Will McLay his flowers on that because it goes with Deron Bland.
He goes back further than that, it digs second.
I'm just saying they have been nailing these picks Lewis, Jordan Lewis, They've missed. They got to throw boss Man Fat in there too. As much as we say good things, we gotta be reminded that that there has been some missus. But I'm telling you Carson and I think what he brings from a physicality standpoint. In Mike Zimmer's defense, he's everything that you've been wanting. On the back half of your defense, I hit a nerve, didn't now.
So the thing on the thing.
On Kelvin Joseph is basically all teams do this. And I remembered when he was taken there were a group of folks from Kentucky. They were like, yeah right, They're like basically, hey man, you need to go ahead and go And one of the things that I've I used to tease Danny about because you know, mister Lsu, he got mad. It's like, dude, you know what's a problem with LSU says you're too hot for Lsu.
Now Darius guys.
They have some problem children around when they let Darius guys stay with all his stuff. But they told Boston, yeah, man, yeah, you're too hot for us. And so then Kentucky takes him Kentucky, yeah, you need to go ahead, go ahead, hit that draft. By that time, because he was the posse kept leading him out of town, calling it a parade. So when you got the player, you're two SEC schools, well, you know, the old playing SEC. So everybody's cheating, so we're gonna let us slide in the SEC. The two
schools in the SEC. Yeah, man, no, thank you. He comes here, same thing. Okay, you question involved in the.
Shooting everywhere you go there you are.
Right right, and the police want to question you. You don't want to talk to the police. It was just that stuff that kept following him, and and for me, Hackma, I've always had this saying, read the entire scouting report, not just the part you like, Okay, the whole thing. Yes, talented players. He had these things that made you say, we like the player, but there's this other stuff there that was lingering. And to me, I'm one of those guys that says, man, I don't want to deal with all that.
At the same time, while the.
Cowboys get a lot of grief, do you know who's got the whole list of problem children off the field right about now? The Kansas City Chiefs. Yea, bro, Yeah, they just keep it. Guy, just keep finding trouble. But Andy Reid likes taking chances. Tyreek Hill is an excellent example of that. His off the field issues that he had over Oklahoma State and still got drafted fifth round and ended up, you know, being a sensational player.
But he's had some issues off the field that have followed him.
But so when I look at the Cowboys, you took a shot, it didn't work out. They moved along, which is what in the past. I remember Dwayne Goodrich was here, they kept they kept Goodie too long.
They've moved on.
And then the other portion of hey, let's use a five on it, dron plane and.
So they've made up for it in those areas.
And that's in the way that Deron Bland has worked out and you have got like Eric Scott that was that that's still here and it's like I said, it's Will McLay and what he's been able to do.
Nay Sean Wright as well.
I mean they have they've nailed some picks and you feel really confident about that cornerback room. But Carson, again, I just think I love his physicality. I love the way this guy plays, the range that he plays with, and I think he's going to be one of those guys that's gonna.
Push Jordan jay Lou.
You know Jay Lou in a one year deal, who is still who had a fantastic season last season.
He had really good camp. But I don't think, and this is just me, I don't think he pushes him. I just think in a seventeen game season.
Heck, we just know, yes, you're going to need bodies. You're going to need bodies.
I mean, somebody, somebody somewhere in a game is going to get nicked up. It's just the nature of football that you need to be loaded at that position. And they're loaded, and clearly Jay Lou represents with Jerry wants where he's got these guys playing on one year dealer man got there sing for the supper, go ahead and get.
With you, Lou been there before, he'd done that, and he has performed and gotten another contract. And you know, I just go back to last season, coming coming into camp, that was the biggest question whether DRN Bland was going to be your nickel corner and Tush and Jay Lou and you see how that whole thing expanded with like you to your point, guys go down and other guys get opportunities. And that's Darn Bland making the most of his.
So staying on where you're at here talking about these corners and young corners. Here the testament that we aren't necessarily giving the Cowboys front office right now, nobody is talking about Stefan Gilmore, who has a Hall of Fame resume, former Defensive Player of the Year, a starter for the team last year, who Digs and other players spoke about how they were learning from him. They let him go.
You're not missing him. That you're seeing young guys step up and that they have a formula, they know how to identify it. That's big when you can I mean, I can't say enough of how impressed I was with Gilmour last year being at camp watching him work, watching the other people see what he does. I mean to mean, that's the kind of veteran guy that you want in
a room. I thought Cooks kind of did the same thing on the other side for the receivers room, where people could look and say, hey, man, here's a super Bowl player. And while Cooks didn't win the Super Bowl played in it twice, Gilmore did end up winning a super Bowl with the Patriots. The guys can look and say,
all right, this is what we need to do. And I feel like the Cowboys are starting to understand how to draft and identify corners the way they do offensive lineman and in this league, the lack of depth at those two positions, and that they have it monumental.
Yeah, Stephan Gilmore, I think from the moment that he came through the doors, he added that element of validity to your defense, a veteran presence, a guy that's been their defensive player of the year, all of that Super
Bowl ring to go with it. I think his status, most of those guys have to respect that immediately, and I think for the Cowboy Nation Cowboy fans, those are the kind of moves that you wanted to see made in the off season, bringing in a guy that could push a CD lamp, you know, bringing in a guy that could push maybe some of these guys in the defensive front, push some of these guys in the running
back room. So look, I you're absolutely correct, because to me, his loss, I'm like, how do you replace a guy like that? But this front office, this scouting department, has done a tremendous job of bringing in young talent to now you know, hey, this is the first that I've heard of Stephan Gilmour today.
Yeah, And that was kind of what I was when you were going down the list. I was like, how about that. We're not missing Gilmore, which I thought was going to be an issue at all. And to my doms, I don't think he's signed anywhere at all, and so maybe he's just waiting on someone to get hurting that pop in there and get himself an opportunity. It doesn't look like he's going to be back with the Cowboys
in any capacity. To go back to Marshaw Kneelan, you're definitely hoping for a rookie year, but a rookie year is a rookie year. There's gonna be some some growing pains here. So let's let's make sure we understand that about the young man. This is probably the last year of Tank Lords.
That's tough, man.
No, no, it's not. Because it's the evolution of football. Yeah, it's the evolution of football. He had four sacks last year and he had ten quarterback pressures like we saw at Tyron Smith. Thank you. So so I'm looking at Tank. There's there's two guys that I think this is gonna be the last year for them on this team. Tank Lords and Zach Martin. Okay, I just look at these players and just say, okay, you know what for what they when the Cowboys got them what they were looking for them to do.
Job, well done.
Okay, these were two solid draft picks who ended up signing multiple contracts with your team, playing in Pro Bowls. Zach Martin is going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame that this was probably their last two seasons. And for Tank Lawrence's it's the nature of that position.
Man.
You know, when you when you play on the D line, your body's just you know, you start playing eight nine years, your body's going to get beat up and worn down.
And you're not the player you used to be. Tank.
You just saw it last year, not the player used to be, which is why they went and got you know, Marshawn and.
Will mcclay's openly talked about him being a little tank.
Yeah, and so for me, I look at this as the last year and oh, by the way, what is it. We know they're gonna have to start paying some guys, so you're gonna have to look at some high dollar players and just say okay, boom here. Zach Martin's openly talked about maybe maybe. And so when you start talking maybe to me, I gotta look.
At that it is you're already there. So once you open that door.
So potentially those are two large calories salary cap numbers that could come open for you as you're trying to, you know, take care of a CD Lamb, take care of Dak Prescott, and then you're going to have to take care of Michael Parsons. You're gonna have a droning that you need to pay. You cannot let dron blank and want to do it.
No, that's not only that.
I think these are all good problems to have with guys that you have to pay that are homegrown talents. But when it comes to Tank Lawrence, man, this is he's going into his tenth season, and that seemed like that went so fast when I think about him as a player and his development, and give coach Leon Lett, former Cowboy Great, a lot of credit for his development of Tank Lawrence early, because they really didn't know how to use him initially. At first, he was a little undersized.
He put on the way sixty three, two sixty five now, but it was always playing light and they found a way to get him involved. I think Tank is a guy that for all intensive purposes last season, he was probably the best that we had in stopping the run, and teams realized that they had to They really had to get blockers a hat on number ninety in order to get the running game going. Other guys not so much, but Tank is was really consistent in that way.
As the Cowboys keep moving towards drafting young players that have to be paid, you're going to have to look at some of the older players on your roster and you're going to have to go ahead and let people go.
This is just the nature of it.
I go with a Dalton Schultz, who had a really good year for the Houston Texans last year as they won the division, and he was a great safety blanket for CJ.
Strat who had excellent season. They let him go.
He gets ten million dollars, and here's Jake Ferguson, And that, to me is what the Cowboys really.
This is the position you're in now.
As you've drafted players, they become Pro Bowl type players, you can't keep all of them, and you're gonna have to do that. And so to me, I look at Tank Lawrence as one of those next guys there, and then I look at you know what they did with Marshaan and.
This this is what you have to do.
You've got to start to see who are these other guys that are that are that are coming along here? Because I got other guys I gotta pay. Then I think about somebody like George Lewis, depending on what happens with them, yes he'll be a free agent.
But man Nickel corner in this league.
Matters, yeah it, And so if he's out here and he has a really good year, then that's another front office decision that you're going to have to sit around here and make and say, Okay, what do we do? How do we pay him or do we let him go? I mean, remember wh Cheto Whosia was here and Byron Jones. These are two guys you drafted who became starters and you had to make a decision on. They basically paid Amari Cooper, therefore you didn't have the money to pay Jones.
Jones gets the highest paid contract ever in free agency for a corner from Miami. Never became the player that they wanted him to be. Cheeto ends up going to Cincinnati and is a starter on their Super Bowl team. This is the nature of what you're doing now when you draft very well, and that's that's what's happening, and it's going to keep happening here for the Cowboys as you got these high ticket price.
You gotta pay well.
You know, when you talk about Dalton, Dalton, Schultz and Ferguson, I think first of all, you have to see that spark from that said player when you make that replacement.
And that's where I think a guy like Sam Williams it was easy to replace maybe a Dorin's Armstrong and some of those other names and just go ahead and let those guys walk because you recognize as to your point that you have a young guy coming behind him that could be better as far as the the as far as the value that you place on a nickel corner, like what Jordan Lewis does is a specific skill set that not a lot of guys in the NFL have, and that's why he has that value and it's always
been able to stick. He's going, He'll have plenty of opportunities if not here, of course, you know, because of what he does and how competitive he is. But you're right, I mean, this is a very this is a very young roster. They're bringing in guys that can play right now, and these joint practices in this preseason is very important for a lot of these guys.
Man, when I think about just the nickel players in this league, and just go to your division. Regardless of the former former right over the Dallas Morning News Hall of Famer spoke, you used to tell me say, now you've got to figure out how do you win your division?
First?
Yeah, and you start thinking about some of the slot type receivers and receivers in this division. Philly Washington Giants have gone out here.
It's tough. He's got some guys. Right, So you've got players. You've got players here.
The quarterback questions in Washington, in New York are they're not so in Philadelphia. But yeah, man, you got to have a guy like Jordan Lewis and who's coming up behind him? Because you know, Jordan gets hurt in the game, said, hamstrings, tweaks, ankles,
things happen. Who's ready to go? So back to the point we're making here at the top the Cowboys scene to understand how to draft corner now the way they have offensive linemen, and we know when it comes to the Cowboys drafting offensive lineman, they are drafting Pro Bowl, All Pro lineman. And you look at Zach Martin, you look at Tyron Smith. These are guys with Hall of
Fame resumes. All right, man, let's get our first break in here, a whole lot to get to one player that we didn't talk about as a young guy having a really good camp. I'm very anxious to see what he can do tomorrow. I'll tell you who that is next. He Harrison Newi Scuss plays Lunchpot You by Aristocrat Gaming on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio.
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Right, heck, my hairs appreciate it.
You are checking out the Players Night right here and Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio brought to you by Aristocrat Gaming. We're in the SWBC podcast studio here. Practice going on out at Oxnard, California. This week they will play the Rams in the preseason game. But your best action is going to be tomorrow when they have the joint practice.
And you wanted to talk about the young guys showing off in camp and to me, so much for me that I'm looking at is brock Hoffman Center, and at this point time it looks as though it's his job to lose. We had Nate Newton Monday on the Players Une podcast, and Nate's been out there three time Super Bowl champions, Like, yeah, man, it's him.
Cooper BB is a kid they took out of.
Kansas State and a lot of us assumed the former All American would be the starting center. And they talked about putting me out there, and Nate just said he's not there yet. Meanwhile, brock Hoffman doing what any young players should do to say, Hey, I've been here, I know the system I've played. I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure I make it hard on them to not give me the job. Give the young man the credit, went to the weight room, did his job,
didn't make any noise, just did the work. I have a lot of respect for that, and I want to see exactly what he could do against the Rams.
Who Oh, by the way, no, Aaron Donald, come on everybody.
You know if I if I'm a fellow defensive time, I mean offensive line, I in this.
Man all kinds of food.
Tiff treats, yes like keep him fat like and they don't even think about coming back because you know you can see the Rams.
Hey, we're in the playoff, Come on right, come on back now.
I would try to keep him as fat as possibly, but he's out of shape that he can't think about coming back this year.
Next year.
I saw him on the on the podcast and he still looked like.
He could go today. Don't let him get that answer, Tequila. You know.
I could to make sure this man is not ready to come back, because the Rams are the kind of organization that would pick up the phone week nine and ten, we need you, hey man, what do you need to come on back.
Yeah, this is the thing about brock k Hoffman, and I think there's so many there's so many questions yet to be answered about this offensive line because I think coming from last season to this season, the running game is so much of a concern that you're telling yourself that the onus. You're putting it on the head of this offensive line and saying you, guys have to be better.
You have to be better, you have to be able, you have to open up these passing lanes because it was none existent at certain points of the season last year. So look, brock Hoffman has a lot of responsibility, but he is the guy that's maximizing the opportunity that's in front of him. A lot of times, especially when you talk to guys like Barret Church, they'll tell you like, look, guy's drafted high like that, it's almost guaranteed that he's going to be the starter day one.
Look at what you're dealing with right now. How to left.
Tackle with Tyler Goyden Geiden, who they're trying to make him ready, but they're not gonna thrust him out there if he's not right. They're gonna do every truma DOGA maybe in a position to win a starting job if it is just he's leaps and bounds better than Tyler Geiden. But Hoffman Man again, he is wedged in between two really good offensive guards, and I think if he can maintain that and the communication and set up be the brain basically of this offensive line, I don't see him
losing this job. And right now, Babe, just look man with the install he just has to do the best he can with the reps that he's getting.
When Nate spoke about some of the snaps being an issue, that right there alone told me, Okay, yeah.
You can't.
You can't risk it. It's the most elementary thing you do. But it's right, hike the football. But what we know, when it goes wrong, it goes wrong. And teams defenses are too good that if a snap is a little too low to the right or the left, or or you know, if you go that goes up under center and it's not hitting properly.
Man, that's a problem.
And for a guy like McCarthy who's now running the system for a second year. That Hoffman knows it and is able to call out blocking protections and it's not have to think that. That's so much a big part of this thing, man, When you're playing center is the thinking part of it. When you don't have to do it, it's natural. And as you said, you got Zach on the right, you got Tyler on the left, and you know how to make the calls, how to make your
combo blocks. That's big time. And so far brock Hoffmann is he's making it. He's not even letting it be a battle. And that's why when I say tomorrow against the Rams, that's what.
I want to see. Can you continue it? Okay?
I don't need you. You can't be all ox SNAr baby. I need you to be ready to go against the Rams. He will be your starter out there the preseason game. Can you go ahead and command and do what you need to do? Center? Is so tough because I go back into this, Heckman, we talked about it all day long. The fronts you are facing, Yeah, not just in this division,
but overall. When you start talking about your first game at Cleveland, then you get the Saints, then you host the Ravens, then you're at the Giants, and then you are at the Pittsburgh Steels.
This is some front city. And if your center is weak, yeah, oh baby. And this is two weeks in a row.
And I mean the Saints may be a lot of things, but what they are is always good on defense. They are gonna pack the defense and they're gonna come you know, They're going to come into at T with that defense. And look, brock Hoffman is doing a great job. We saw him last season come in and just a fill in role and show basically what he can do. I feel confident, you know, that's one of those positions. After we let go or let our center walk last season, I was like, Okay, well who's going to fill in?
I think you feel more comfortable with brock Hoffman assuming that role, but I'm with you, he still has to prove it.
I never had an issue letting Tyler beyand you know what, for who for what? Was my thing. It was like, for who for what?
Because we didn't have that bona fide guy, and it seemed to me like he had Beyondashid started to work his way into that that starting role. I think initially like he was weak, he didn't have the strength that you wanted from the center. But I mean as it's the season started to go along, you started to play some value in him. Hey, the organization didn't and they went younger. They went with some younger guys, and brock Hoffman has the opportunity.
I'll push back on you this from this standpoint, I don't think that they didn't value them. I think they said, look, we'll pay it, we won't overpay it. And the agent for the player and I go back to Dalton Schultz, I felt the same way, the same way, I'll pay it, but I'm not going to overpay it because you're a good player. You're not great, you're good. Dalton Schultz wanted
great money. You wanted David and Joku money. And it was like, hey, I'm sorry that Cleveland's out here paying dav Joku and Sean Watson these crazy numbers.
We're not doing that. And they were right to not do it.
And what Dalton Schultz ended up finding out that basically the money you said no to from the Cowboys is what you said yes to Houston. You should have stayed here, and I look at Tyler b Os like, is this a ten million dollar a year cinner? No, No, not when I can go draft and develop in a league where where I know my personnel staff understand enlightenment.
Hardest part for a lot of these guys is to know exactly what their value is and so, and they don't know if it'll work unless you go for it right. It's just like, hey, if you don't shoot your shot, you'll never get it right.
That's just the way. That is the way that it works.
And I think even when you go back to the Shultz analogy, Schultz had the mindset of somebody that wants to bet on himself. And so when he got tagged for that one year and it was a proven deal and thought he was going to re up for more, he ends up getting hurt.
He gets hurt.
And then, oh, by the way, Jake Ferguson raises the antenna and obrow of everyone, because then you see this young guy who's fast, elusive. Maybe not all the pieces, meaning being a blocker and all those things, but you see that Jake Ferguson could fill that role and feel it well, because right now he is starting to look like one of the premiere tight ends in the league.
Back Marrison. I go back.
Even when they tagged him, they were trying to work out a deal, he got it off. I talked to someone who's a part of the negotiations and they said, look.
We made an offer.
It was a good offer, but you know his he and the agent are looking like a joku money And Travis Kelsey went, no, no, you're you're a good player, but you want great money. We're not doing that, not not here. And as you said, we we got Ferguson and hinder Shot.
We can We'll go here and figure it out. And then, of course what they do.
They drafted Schoonmaker, so they just said, well, we we feel like we know how to draft you because they drafted Schultz. Okay, we've done it with you, let's do it again. They did do it again with with Ferguson. So if you think about it, well, Hendershot to not have the season we thought he would. Schoonmaker was supposed to be able to come in here and block be a point of attack guy. That didn't happen. Now both guys are coming back. Hendershot is making some plays of camp.
So this is another guy where you're talking about the going against the Rams twice this week is going to matter hinder Shot Schoonmaker and then John Stevens, who's bigger, This is gonna be his opportunity as well. But I go back to Okay, the Cowboys clearly know how to draft offensive line, they know how to draft corners. They know I'd picked tight ends and lound Wells is one of the better tight end coaches here. They've learned how
to develop guys. So if I've got to pay Micah and dak in CD Lamb, I've got to figure out how I can get my coaches to take the talent Will mcclay's giving me, make it productive and put it on the field. That's where brock Hoffman comes in here. That's where Schoonmaker's got to come and do his part.
To me.
That's one of That's one of the guys that I'm really looking at to say, hey, man, you need to step up due these Michigan dudes.
Outside of Georgia. Hey don't put that. I'll put that on Michigan man. These Michigan dudes, you and my city.
I mean, think heckma first round pick on Massie, second round pick on Luke Schoolmaker. Right now, we're sitting here wondering what, why, what are you gonna give me? That's these their question marks, and it's up to them. Those players. They need to answer it because this team needs them. If Luke Schoonmaker can block as they tight end, it's going to help them. You can run two tight end sets, you can run twelve personnel. They need him to do
his part. Monzie Smith the Cowboys, you look at you know five games that they lost last year where teams are gashing and running the football. You have to help this team if they want to do anything close to last year. If you want to win ten games this year, these two Michigan guys are going to have to be a part of They're going to have to make contributions.
Now, I al will say it like this. I think, and I was a big time Dalton Schultz fan. I liked him a lot. I didn't like him at the number that he liked himself at. But at the same time, I think with the way that this front office has been drafting and bringing in guys that can fill that role but also be superstars, you have to trust Will McLay and staff to be able to bring in the
talent that you need. But Jake Ferguson, I mean, he really is looking like a unicorn in that room when you start looking at pass catching, when it comes down to hender shot. It really has a bigger question mark for me with Peyton Hendershot because I thought that looking at those two guys in their rookie season, they looked like one A, one B because they were.
Right right, just the way that they just the way that they operated.
But for some reason, Jake Ferguson took the next step and just took off all on his own. And now you see with Peyton Hendershot, Look, there's been some inconsistency with him being able to stay on the field those Now I mean, obviously guys are going to get injured, but just his inability to be on the field.
And oh, by the.
Way, you spend that draft pick on the scoonmaker who man starting to look funny in the light in certain instances because not.
Being able to catch the ball.
I just go, I don't was it one of those games where he just couldn't get into that.
I believe it was the Philly It was one of the games.
That he couldn't get into, didn't get over the goal line, couldn't get to the goal line, get over the goal line, and you just ask those questions about guy's toughness. But to me, when I go back, when I look at a guy like Jake Ferguson, he really is the X factor for me as as that second wide.
Receiver that you're looking for.
He to me is starting to look like the Kelsey, the Kittle guys like that, who's next. No, no, no, no, absolutely, I mean because you see where especially now when you talk about where Hoffman is with just using his muscle memory,
with understanding the assignments and the protection. I think Jake Ferguson, with his second year in McCarthy's offense, is also going to be better when you go back to Mike McCarthy's Lenny as a coach, some of the tight ends that he's had and so look, I just feel like a guy like that Jake Ferguson can be that second receiver. I know right now with CD's unsigned and we're looking for that second guy, I think Jake Ferguson, you got him right now on your roster.
He definitely has a role. Tight end is always going to have a role in a Mike McCarthy offense. Here, I know that Mike McCarthy really likes Sam Laporter.
You don't believe in Jake Ferguson like that? Did I want to say, I don't believe in him? When I when I said, when I said, those two elite guys, you don't know, you don't see you don't see him adding up to being that kind of of tight end.
So when I one thing about Kittle is his ability to block. Yeah, he's destructive, Okay, so.
We're talking about it. To me, a complete tight end. He can catch it, he can block, like this is the guy, especially for a team that they run the ball there, so you've got to be a point of attack guy. So to me, Kittle is right here in a separate category Kelsey. The numbers that you know he's got these these Hall of Fame type numbers he's putting up. He's a pass catcher, he's not a blocker. So these two guys, to me, they're they're elite right there. But
let's put him over here. It's like when we start talking about quarterbacks.
Patrick Mahons, you set him aside by himself and don't put anybody just.
Like these guys. You put him right over here.
Okay, that that's a category that over here, and you guys haven't you haven't even made an all pro thing yet to put yourself there yet. As far as and that Sam said to me, Sam Laporta has that type of ability to be the next Kittle. Oh, by the way, the Iowa guys, Jake has got to become to me, when you are to an elite, you got to be able to block. That's not what he does yet. Far as pass catching, he's shown you he can catch passes,
that he's a dependable player. He's doing that. But I just think there's another level to get to, and I'm not ready to put him over there.
I got to see him be able to block and show me a little bit more. Laporta last year, boy he was. He was for a rookie.
What Mike McCarthy liked about him. So let's just didn't happen this way. But let's say they were laport at one and then decided to go get another big defensive tackle in round two. Boy boy, he take Cooking, you take you take Laporta and Ferguson and you run into twelve personnel and stupid.
Yeah, now that's that's legit. But what okay, there you go with the Cooks and a CD Lamb.
Oh my gosh, this this is reminiscent of Aaron Hernandez and Gronk and New England. Of who you're covering, somebody's gonna get you. If Hindershot can keep making advances, if schoonmaker can block and make advances, they can help.
They can help.
But right now, and I see what the vision you have for that's what I say, heck by, see the vision you have.
I just got to see the actions back it up.
So and and what I see from Jake Ferguson literally is when you talk about a wide receiver like Ceedee Lamb who came on the scene and a lot of defensive coordinators didn't respect him properly and left him sing single covered all right? This year, he's not gonna have that, all right. He's gonna be double covered. And there are there's gonna be a lot of guys and open. I think the Cooks invites that, all right, your third wide
receiver in Tobert, he invites that. But who can haul the middle of the field like a good tight end can? And I think Jake Ferguson is the guy that's going to be the air apparent there because defenses cannot rely on putting a linebacker. If you put to me, if you put a linebacker on Jake Ferguson, that's a win each and every time. And that's where I'm saying that if he wants to make that step into the next level,
because there is a step up that he has to take. Agree, all right, But I believe as a player, what I've seen him do in this offense, I think it's almost inevitable that he gets there.
The offense gives him the ability to become a Pro Bowl player, and in year three he could definitely have the opportunity to do it. Let's get one more break in here, and there's one player who's already operating at a regular season level right now. Let's tell you who that player is next. Heckman will like this. I'm going to restruct This is a Players Lounge podcast brought to you by Aristocrat Gaming on Dallas Cowboy dot com Radio.
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Slash Star Heck Maharrison thank you for the read.
Heck Marrison new he scues We're with you right here on the play as loundes the players, Berry Church and Danny McCrae have the day off.
Very dirty dog Barry's out.
He's going to one of my favorite places this week. So I'm I'm hoping you nothing but good luck to him. Hit him straight, Baby, hit him straight. Micah Parsons is in. He's where he needs to be. He's he's where.
He needs to be.
Good luck to the Rams tomorrow as they try to black block Michael Parsons because it's been a challenge for the Cowboys. So you raised the question, Heck Maharrison, is this the defensive player of the year.
It has to be. It has to be.
And I say that because of the Green Bay game.
Let me tell you this.
After the Green Bay game, what was startling to me is the amount of people that walked out of the exit on Michael Parsons basically saying, hey, this guy is a one trick pony and all the pressures, all of that concerning. But but in the big moments, Micah seems to shrink and had I it's like reading a book, me and you reading a book. And coming away with two different themes on what we just read.
And you were.
Criticism was fair, the criticism was and you know what what I what I say to those people when I look at a player like Michael Parsons, who is special, No, he's not your run of the mill, not your average, a guy that has had forty one sacks in three seasons.
And O, by the way, when you start looking at his sack percentages and totals and pressures and all of that, there are only four players to have the kind of season that he's had in three seasons, and three of those guys have Hall of Fame, have yellowjackets.
Okay.
And I think under Mike Zimmer, I think Mike Zimmer is going to be the coach that really unlocks his full potential because what we're seeing now in Oxnard not only just staying in one place, moving him around, allowing him to be that guy that doesn't be that that's not going to be in one place.
Right.
He did that, but a lot of times when Dan was stuck in the rut, what did he do? He stuck Micah on one side of the ball, okay, and then after that he didn't have an answer once offenses took Micah out of it. Now, we don't put any honest, we don't put any of the responsibility on the other ten guys and say, look, where were you when this offense was running three guys in double team because he's the most double team defensive player in the league, or
the rest of your guys. But I think when you have a weapon like that and you can maneuver and move him around, and don't just make him a one trick ponent, don't just a gap blitz, not just the five off the outside. What else can you do with Michael to make him effective? And I think those are the things that you're going to see this season. And I'm not selling Hopium because you got that Hopium look
on your face. I'm not telling you that Ebneze Echabon is going to be the defensive player of the year. I'm telling you I was just thinking of a random.
Hey, Eboneze, I love you, and I love you.
I'm just saying I'm not I'm selling you on a guy that you already know is like that. Okay, So convincing yourself that Michael Parsons isn't the player that he is. I think, man, to all of those puns that everybody that feels like that number eleven, number eleven is him and has been showing you season after season how special he is. And this has to be for me the defensive Player of the Year for the twenty twenty four Dallas Cowboys season.
Miles Garrett may have something the same about it. Of course t J. Watt does too. There's a lot of guys.
They will, oh absolutely was the first six game, five six games of the year of they will there.
They'll be there to show their wars against each other.
Look, Micah Parsons deserves his fair share of the embarrassing loss to Green Bay as much as Dak Prescott and Cede Limb and you guys want big contracts, they're the fans have the right to expect you to produce because that is what you have to do.
I'm going to go to a different sport.
And what I just witnessed back in June at the NBA Finals where Jason Tatum and Jlen Brown who had played in the finals two years before and very humbled by the Golden State Warriors, and the next year they didn't have they didn't get back to the finals, and then they got here again and they produced at an outstanding clip with Jalen Brown being the finals MVP. He had excellent Eastern Conference finals as well. These are two guys playing for historic franchise, dealt with the criticism and
being young. They just kept working and it got there. And to me, I look at Michael Parsons in such the same fashion. It's part of being young, part of learning, doing a lot of talking, not getting it done, and people shine the light on you.
What are you going to do so far?
His response at camp is lost ten pounds. I'm out here going crazy.
Great.
That's what you want to see. That's a part of the growth you'd like to see from a player that you feel is a difference maker. There's a lot of good players and a lot of difference makers. Michael Parsons is a difference maker. I need you to start making a difference in playoff games. Ceedee Lamb, I need you to make a difference in playoff games. Dak Prescott, I need you to make a difference in playoff games because if you do, they can go where they want to go.
If they don't, they won't going back to the finals. What did I see from Kyrie Irving. He wasn't a difference maker out there, and what happened. You got yourself sent home in five games, real quick, Luca Dacich, same thing. You weren't producing at the level you needed to in the finals. It's a part of the growing process for young people. Kyrie's already got a ring. But that's my thing is this is he This ain't the end.
Of the world. I don't look at it.
I'm like, gosh, we hate my No, no, dude, this is a part of that thing, man, and you got to get better from it.
I love the basketball analogy because you know, the greatest player that ever played the game, Michael Michael Jordan. Uh, go back to those those Knicks battles when the Knicks were able to sparks and guys like that were able to double team and shut Mike down. He needed to get help starts starting. But this is what I'm saying. They were able to take him out of his game. He didn't have any he didn't have a guy with him at the time.
No, no, no, what I'm saying.
No, it wasn't always Jordan and Pipping walking into Madison Square Garden beating down the Knicks. What I'm saying is they he had to get that help to get over the hump.
And even when you.
Have all the greatest plans that you possibly can, Mike is just Mike. That's what Mike is just Mike. And how many times did those guys leave out of there upset because no matter what you threw at him, he still was him and he was able to put his cape on and win some games. I'm saying the same thing about Michaeh. Look it's on you. I hear cowboy fans, I hear people saying, look like it's musical chairs for these contracts, Oh you sign Dak, you sign CD Who's
gonna be the odd man out man? To even consider or even think about like that, to me, it is asinine, like you gotta get number eleven signed to a long term deal. It's not even I mean, you don't even think about it. If you don't even think about his worth and whether he's worth the contract or not. He is definitely worth it. And so when you bring up guys in the NBA that have that's wilted in those moments, I don't look at him the same way. I don't say, oh,
he's shrunk in that moment. I think you needed other guys to step up. And that's why I make the analogy of the comparison between Mike Jordan and the Knicks.
Aden Hutchinson has more career playoffs sacks and Michael Parsons. Man, that man got this man all right? So you called him Aiden Hutchinson.
I'm just saying Aiden Hudginson was getting to the quarterback. Michael Parsons hasn't gotten to the quarterback the way Aiden Hutchinson has. Look at the end of the day, you need your you need the stars to be stars.
Don't move the gold post.
He was not a star against Green Bay. Dak Prescott was not a star against Green Bay. Ced Land wasn't a starga. Which is why, which is one reason why you went home.
If you're going to win, your stars got to be stars. I just saw in the finals. What did I see?
I saw the stars be stars. And when the other team stars weren't stars, you go home and lose. That is a part of it. There's nothing wrong with sitting here pointing the fingers said, man, you didn't get it done. It's your opportunity to go back get it done. Kobe shot three air balls against Utah. They went home. Kobe went home and worked on his game, and he said, you know what, I'll never have that happen again. I understand where I need to have my legs in April.
I will make sure my legs are in April, and that won't happen again. Michael Parson's losing ten pounds showing up the camp. To me, that's that mamba mentality. Okay, that happened at against Green Bay. I won't want to happen again. All I know is Ad and Hutcheson fact has more playoff sacks than Michael Parson's. I didn't think I did. When I went and do the research, I was surprised. That's our show today, Harrison. We'll continue the conversation on that when the players brought to you. Bye,
Aristocrat Gaming. We'll talk to you next week.
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