The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is the Players Lounge, broadcasting live from Dallas Cowboys World Headquarters at the Star. Now your hosts Barry Church, Danny McCrae, Hecma Harrison and Newi Scruggs.
Class Lones That then right here on Monday back at Business Finals show here, Black.
History Months, strong Man, the Insha Brothers.
You get your Wonder.
Speak class bathrooms over there, Percy.
Lescules Bury Church here in the house. We're glad to conversate with him before he hits the links.
Here.
We gotta Maharrison in the house sure here and the national champion he is Danny Cray, I knew.
Don't run up, don't run up all whatever you run them camp, don't do it. It's crazy. We don't take it that seriously. You know, we got a different demographic out here. We don't see too much of that. And we got security that's crazy. Cam Newton videos what they're referencing. Hey, look, stop messing with them. West Atlanta boards, Cam Newton, Pacman Jones. They ready, they are ready, they are ready for you. But I'll never understand people that want to challenge former.
Athletes in public to do it's just not smart that.
And I tell you the other thing too. I grew up because my dad was in the military, grew up on a pope. I don't mess with nobody been in the army, especially people have been those units, rangers exactly. These are trained killers.
I think they can handle themselves.
Like you don't know. I don't care how. My dad's seventy years old. I don't know what he knows unless train killers.
Man, and they don't quit. Nah, you's done. A win is not a win. You can't just do this. You know time. Hey man, I'm telling you what though.
That hurt me. Man.
I didn't like to see that, and I don't like to see when athletes like you guys go back to your respect. The neighborhoods are supporting the neighborhood being visible, giving athletes, young athletes an opportunity, and these are the environment that's being set now.
I don't know the entire story.
I don't know if Cam's out there handling those I don't know, But all I'm saying is it's not a good look when you have a guy of Cam's stature that is supporting the youth doing what he's doing, and it turns into that and I don't know what's happening, man, with youth athletics period where we're having events like this. I mean, we had something very tragic happening here a couple of years ago with a shooting on a pee wee league field. You know, it's just come on, now,
you can't be taking this stuff this series. Man, it's crazy and it's not And you don't get guys like Barry Church and dannymccrat to come to your neighborhood and support your kids when you got.
That kind of stuff.
I think the main part that that's happening here is parents,
who most of the time have been the issue. They just continue to forget that it is about the kids and the young folks right trying like if cam Newon decides he man, it's over right, So all the kids that paid to go out there, you know what I'm saying, to get whatever type of spotlight they wanted to get, whatever type of notoriety that they're trying to get to get to college, all of a sudden that's over with not a parent who is no longer your time to
get recruited to have that opportunity. Now you're taking it. Now you're taking it away from the kid. And I think that's that is the biggest thing that's happened. Like parents are out of control. Like if I'm if I'm hosting something like that, I'm almost telling eight parents. You can't come and one coach per team, just one. You don't need your whole crew out there, because you see what happens. Dude, get get attacked by two three people right because they all they had attacked.
I mean it looked like it looked like he was swatting flies for legal purposes. He got and that was what happened. And don't run up on nobody, man, Church here.
When you're you're little and start playing, you'll you'll get a whole lot too.
Man.
I stand on another side of the field or sit somewhere across the gym away from people. I just do it, man, because I don't I don't say anything. I just don't want to hear people say anything.
They get crazy like okay, I don't think.
So w.
You gotta be.
Where we're going from here.
Let's talk about the Cliff Cowboys. Your video, what you send that out to you real quick.
Mike McCarthy, the head of the Cowboys and defensive coordinator Go Dragon, are not going to the Combine. So Sean McVay the Los Angeles rams Is also decided not to go to the Combine for a second straight year. Mike McCarthy saying with the new defensive changes, he can get more work done back at Star. So McCarthy not going deep, it's coordinator not going I'll go around the room, start with you, Burry Church, your thoughts.
I understand it, to be honest with you. You know that there's a lot of hype behind the combine, and I get it. You get to see, you know, some of the measurables, the forty, the vert and all that good stuff.
But what confuses me about the combine is.
How do people move up and down draft boards by getting evaluated with T shirts and shorts on? Like when are you on the football field running a straight line for forty yards?
Like that?
To me, I understand the l drill and the short shuttle because that's that's quickness. You know, that's a slot receiver. They need to show how they can get in and out of breaks. And I get all that and maybe even the quarterbacks throwing, but there's no pass rush, there's no people in your way. You're not gonna see that International Football League. You're not gonna see that at all. So I understand some things about the combine.
The interviews. You get to see these.
Guys one on one.
They really pick their brain and how you know, intelligent they are when it comes to understanding concepts as far as football is concerned.
But when you talk about, you know, evaluating a player.
I feel like you got to look at that tape and that's what I feel like McCarthy's doing. He's not gonna be, you know, at the combat, he's gonna be looking at tape, getting his defensive you know, crew all together and breaking down the people that he thinks can make this defense better. And I think that's the right path to go about it. When you go into this combine. Yeah,
you may be able to see this guy. He's fast, he's but how many times have we seen a guy running four to two six and when he gets on a football field looks like he runs a four to seven or four to six. I mean, to me, there's too much hype involved with the combine, and I don't see how people move up and down leader boards or draft boards based on performing in shorts and T shirts when you're not.
Gonna do that on the football field.
There's too many mistakes that could be made when you go off of just what a guy does at the scouting combined and you don't do your due diligence and look at the tape. And I think Will McLay and his scouting department are definitely gonna do that. And for Mike McCarthy at this point, and man, he's it's sad to say, you know that he's coaching for his job.
He's doing everything that he possibly can to not have that be to turn or interfere him from what he has to do because honestly, yeah, they have to fix this, this running game, They have to fix this, this running defense.
They know what they have in front of them, and they're not gonna go off of you know how many Twitter followers a guy has a viral moment and him training and so many guys have moved up the leader board are being you know, drafted because of those intangibles that have nothing to do with playing on Sunday or playing you know, playing football. Most of the time, the most, the elite guys. They skipped the camp altogether anyway, so
you're not gonna see any of them. And I think for the scouting department, especially when you're talking about that that three through seven mix, you want to get an opportunity to touch these guys, see them, see him in the classroom, understand who they are. Because you're only looking at the product on the field. You don't know if this guy's a knucklehead or what he is, you know,
So look, I agree with you. It's for the most part, the combine, it's just about being able to see these athletes and not so much the numbers itself.
Yeah, I think one. I don't think it's for everybody.
I think it's for maybe like third round and under like guys who guys who you may have watched the film you and you don't really get a feeling of how fast he is, and you may think he's a four to seven, but then you get out there and run a four four you're like, oh, that's that's the guy.
But there's a group of guys who probably it doesn't help them as much the guy who you already expect to run a four to two, who can only go out there and run a four to four and then all of a sudden, you like, he not as fast as he was, So I think it's more of a meet and Greek type of thing. I think the most important part is those interviews and those questions where you're trying to get a feel for what type of person this guy is, Especially the first round guys who you're
going to spend a lot of money on. You want to know, like, hey, in a room, do I get a good vibe from this person right based off whatever question I'm gonna ask him? And sometimes I do think it gets a little outlandish with some of the questions that we hear.
Come out of the combine.
But it's like as far as like the straightforward questions where you're trying to figure out who this person is, get a chance to talk to him, pull him to the side, figure out like what drives and what type of family life, all that type of stuff. I think that's very important. But the performerst thing is, you know, they got prodain, got filmed, we got a whole bunch of other stuff that you If a guy goes out there and run a four to seven, he's likely going to go to protein and run a four four.
That's just the thing.
So Mike McCarthy will participate by zooma, you know, so he'll he'll he'll be able to be a part of the interviews when they when they bring in prospects. But he's just not you know, he's just not going up there. And I agree with what everyone is saying here about these. If you're a and will McClay one of the best in the National Football League, I think it's a piece of the puzzle. That's all it's. I think that's all
it's ever supposed to have been. Here's a little bit of piece of the puzzle, and this is just one more thing we get to kind of look at. But I do believe the media aspect of what this is now for those that want to make the NFL a twenty four to seven business. And we've got more folks than ever in the media now who are aggregating stories. So you got to have something to talk about, something to write about, Oh so and so now moving up here, or when Byron Jones.
Who played with the Cowboys, when he had that incredible combine and people that moved him up it was something to write about.
Hey, let's look at this guy from Ukony shooting up draft wards. This is the stuff that people who love the NFL right now, they consume it because there's nothing else to consume, and we're watching NFL. Get up football, Good morning football, the whole thing right now. How harsh will the forty nine has hangover beat, Let me gave me we play Superpow We over this. This is their lead segment. But this is what it is right now.
People are desperate. So it's talking about the combine, it's talking about free agency, so by the salary cap with up it's not real football.
And so that's how we find ourselves in the weeks because we're not talking about, oh he's strong.
Do you see that.
Strong light bull? I don't know how much just affected the draft board, but look at C. J.
Strong was at last year when they said, oh man, he had one of the worst test scores or whatever it is, the want to look whatever he can't understand, and he goes out there it has one of the best rookie seasons there is. I Bettion to Carolina Panthers would have been like, man, was we to talk Tod Trup. It's just you know, things like that it's just like, man, what you know terrible?
One to look at school?
Terrible?
But anybody turning you got too young? But somebody turned on the tape from Pitt dude through lasers? What do you go to the NFL do through lasers? Bottom, it's supposed all of this, in my opinion, it's supposed to be at peace. And like any amounts of information you get, just like if you're studying for tepe, you get all this information, you go and find the stuff that you feel is important. What this is, what I think will help, and then you take the other stuff and you throw
it out. That's how you make decisions.
You're gonna get all this information, especially now analytically we got so much stuff, but we could look at the all right.
So Bill Walsh had a great grading system. You had to run a certain number for him or you could not be a receiver in the San Francisco forty nine ers that was his organ. You had to be a certain height and you five seven five eight. Then you couldn't play for him. He wanted to have receivers. It was you had to run a certain forty And I think there's nothing wrong with that. Is you're developing what type of team you want.
But Bill Watsh was smart enough to go to Mississippi Valley State and see a guy running four nine and say that's all right, we'll take it sometimes, and I think it's not a one size fits all And that's why I think film study is so important, and when we talk about the combine and analytics, how it plays into it now, just specifically the cowboys, they can't get caught up in that.
Man.
They have to find guys that, especially in this draft, that can hit the ground running straight off the bus. Dude, you know he coming right now. We know he's going to be a Day one guy. And those are the hardest guys to pick. I think when you're especially looking at the guys out of the.
Color, we know.
I would say this, I don't mind. I'm not going to not being there. I know how to answer the question. I think him and Zimmer do need to get on the same page about how there because that's a big change going from Quinn to Zimmer and figuring out the culture and to know this is how things go when these this player thinks this way, this is how he reacts or whatever. I think that you can get a lot of good information from them spending this time together versus being out there at the combine.
Let's let's kind of go around the room and talk about that. So what we've seen from a guy like Zimmer through that he likes bigger defensive tackles, and then when it comes to linebackers, he places a bigger emphasis on linebackers, I think, much more so than what d you had here.
The kind of linebackers that he Kean O'Neill is not a guy that that Zimmer has been using in the past.
So I think that's a very important thing. You talk about Barrieus and Danny and and let's get Heckman here and.
Start with you.
What do you think happens at the linebacker spot? Because I just think, right off the top of my head, when I think about Zimmer between Dallas and Cincinnati and Minnesota, the linebackers he used a little bit different than what we saw.
F Zim, I'm looking at that.
I look no further than that Buffalo game if I'm talking about the linebackers, if I'm basing anything, I'm looking at what happened.
In that Buffalo game and the way that they were able to run the ball and.
How we saw some of our linebackers getting drugged down the field, and we need We can't go with the hybrid approach. We need a guy that is a true four to three linebacker or a true three four linebacker. Guys that can be in the middle of the field. Guys that can rotate also and go maybe able to the wheel. Are the sam depending on how he's gonna use Micah, but yeah, he's gonna go with a bigger He's gonna go with a bigger guy. I think Eric Kendrick set that played for the Vikings Man one of
my favorite linebackers was a dog. Maybe not as tall as you is you would like for your linebacker, but Stout two forty four something like that, but a guy that was a dog against the run, a guy that didn't give give any space. All we need right now is guys that are coming downhill, guys that are filling
those gaps. We needed dtackles when you talk about bigger defensive tackles, guys that can hold their own and not allow those tight ends and those tackles to shit and get downhill on our defense, which we saw that a lot, and that that just pretty much nullified mark guys like Marquise Bell that was playing out of position already once offensive coordinators kind of figured out what dan Quinn.
Wanted to do.
Yet, when I think about Zimmer and his type of defenses, you look at, you know, like a guy like Anthony Barr when he was in his hey, big old linebacker in the middle, just kind of being able to handle those offensive lineen that may kind of sneak up to him. You look at a guy like Linval Joseph, those defensive tackles he had over there in Minnesota, And to me, I don't think you'll see like in quinn system, you
see in a lot of three safeties. You've seen a lot of packages where you know they had two safeties hooker don't and then you had Curse, you know, patrolling the box.
I don't think you'll see a lot of that, you know.
I think you'll see two traditional safeties and they'll have those athletic linebackers that are bigger body that can handle the run but also be productive in past coverage as well.
I think, you know, Bell is outstanding.
When you talk about a guy third down coverage, maybe he needs to cover one of those running backs or cover those tight ends. I think that's the perfect role for him, coming in on third down, coming in on passing type situations, but an everyday, first second down type of back. I just don't see that because you're caught up to us in the playoffs when they figured he was going to be in there.
We're going to run straight at this guy, and it caught up to the Coweys at the worst situation.
So to me, you have the pieces that you can kind of plug and play with as far as Zimmer is concerned, but you got to get those mainstay pieces that'll be their first, second, and third down to handle that run situation.
Yeah.
I think the biggest thing that Zimmer's going to have to focus on us as a Cowboys organization is depth at the linebacker spot, because I think that's what got us last season. I think you go into it and you're looking at the off season. You're saying, Okay, Vanderish is coming back, you got Overshaun, You're looking at Clark, and that's what you're looking at going into the season, and then you lose Overshan, and then you lose Vanderush and now instead of being able to bring guys in
which they did try to. You have to, you know, go with a guy like Marquie's Bell. So I think having that depth, knowing that you do have those two of those guys coming back with the Clark and the Overshan. Hopefully Overshaun comes back off the injury healthy.
And ready to go.
But that depth at that linebacker position that wants to help Zimmer play the type of defense that he wants to play, is going to be really important. And that's why free agency and that's why it's free agency is they have to make a market.
Free agency.
There's I said, they say they're going all in when we come back. What does going all in mean to everyone? What does that mean to you? And what do you want to see? Will dive into that next right other players. I'm is brought to you by Tostinos right here on Dallas Cowboys dot com.
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Craig running, dum, I'm running, that's right.
Four. Yeah, we see all this something. Y'all got time. Y'all got a little bit of time. We all got time. No, we only have seven this year, so I said that not that many opportunities. So y'all go ahead and get signed up, all.
Right, right, Danny mcraig for Dallas Cowboy, got het Ma Harrison here, got Barry Chuck her dllas cowboy. I new, He scrugs. This is a player's not brought to you by tostitos. So Jerry Jones, the owner and gentleman in the Dallas Cowboys, the Hall of Famer sait going all in, going all in.
I gotta see it, yeah man, you know that's that's that's easy to say. And until he explains what all in means to him, I don't know.
I don't know. All In could be Hey, we we resigned Dak Prescott, we we got we got c. D. Lamb And here's Tyren smith Man. You know that in his mind that could be all into him. I think all In to other people is we see free agents. When you see big draft hall, you need to see some key players resigned. I mean, it's every earththing.
So you said he possibly went all in last year. He because we did Brandon Cooks, we.
Got Gilmore Martin, Like you know, Tyring was bag.
We tp got in you know, healthy coming up. So you're saying that that could possibly be what all In is.
That's what drafted a defensive tackle in the first round.
You know this this is gonna be the beauty of what what do we hear from him at the combine? And Steven, what does that mean? And I need to know what does it mean?
Can we just say that it's levels to all In? This levels to it all right?
And our m O on all In has been getting guys that have been stars in the NFL that kind of not past that prime.
But yeah, past that Okay, we hadn't seen anything.
We're gonna trade the first round draft pick to go get this guy, and I won't mention anybody. Cooper, Yeah you did, and I think that was that that wasn't the beginning of the season. No, ya, So we're going into the season, you would like I'm going all in. They was like, hold on, they went in there like our guy. Yeah, so like starting the season off. I don't think we've seen that, like.
Our guy Chase got him playing with bricks.
I just don't see them going and making these huge splashes in free agency. I mean, when's the last time they had like a huge splashes that we would consider a huge splash, you know, beat hard. Maybe when they went out and got he was the you know, yeah, he was like the number one corner coming out and you know that was you know, that was a huge splash deal.
But when's the last time you know that's true?
But he said, yeah, hips in the middle, all chips in the middle. What does that mean for you?
What you mean.
The defensive end? I can't remember his name, maybe like twenty great party. No, no, no, no, not well, I mean you assume that at that point that that was gonna be a good one. He came in and had like ten eleven Smith Robert Quinn. Robert Robert Quinn came in. He did play well, he didn't play. I don't know that's all in. But I mean when you go, they went to Fridge and they got a guy.
He he performed, he played well.
So what I mean really round up?
Okay, all star started.
Okay, what it means to me, uh, go get somebody that can play and get defensive tackle, a difference making defensive tackle if one becomes available, because easily somebody could slap franchise tags. Okay, so, but but I need to see somebody right up front because I'm not going to sit around here and trust Mazzie Smith just not gonna do it. And then with Osa Diggy Zua, good player. But what we're seeing from Mike Zimmer in the past, he likes a bigger guy. So they need to get
a bigger guy. So de tackle linebacker we just talked about. We know Zimmer likes bigger guys. You don't have that currently right now. With all due respect to Layton vander Rash, if Layton vander Rush does not play another snap of the National Football League, It'll be fine by me because I'm more concerned about this man's health.
He just had a daughter.
You guys all understand and know him seeing how these things, how people's bodies go over time, and and heckman, you've had a front row seat to see the greatest football players in NFL history because of your uncle, and seen how they have grown over time, and you've seen what happens in their bodies. Okay, nobody leaves this game without some injuries here, so that's why I would look to replace Laton Vanderresh. But linebacker spot all into me means
you need to figure out your center position. I don't say anything negative about Tyler Biadish as a player, but he's a free agent. And Tyler be Hoondis is like any cowboy here. Anybody becomes a free agent. You want to get paid your maximum dollars. He's had a good career here, Pro Bowl. But when you start looking at the amount of dollars that you're gonna have to spend, I would think the Cowboys would be better served to go and find his replacement via free agency or most likely draft.
And then I need to see the running game get better. Mike McCarthy would like Tony Pollard back. If you want Tony Pollard back, fine, find me who else who's going to go along with Tony Pollard. It has to be a tandem. You need a bigger guy, somebody that can bunch it in for five yards. To me, that's all it. Yeah, And I'm with you on that new as far as you know, being all in to me, being all it means, you know, not running it back with the same crew
like you have just won a super Bowl. You know those guys who won the super Bowl, Hey, let's run it back. We're gonna do it again. You know, you didn't have success in the playoffs with the same crew. And I'm not talking about, you know, churning the bottom of the roster. We see that all the time, you know,
getting new piece at the bottom. I'm talking about at the core, at the core, switching some things up, you know, relying on the same crew that hasn't been as productive as we may want him to have been, you know, these past couple of seasons.
Maybe there needs to be a change.
And if, like you said, if you want Tony poly back, that's great, but we understand he's great at that number two row. Bring in somebody that can benumber one, that guy that can pound the defense and open things up for Tony Pollard.
I want a guy on in the middle of the defense.
Like a big nball Joseph type guy that can eat up the gaps, not necessarily get pressure on the quarterback, but keep these offensive linemen off your second level, like a linebacker that you don't have to take off the field no matter what the situation is, whether it's first and second down running or it's a third down passing
coverage situation. And I understand those things cost bread and that's cast bait, and I understand all that, But when it's talking about all in, I just to me, running it back with the same crew and expecting different results, it's kind of like the definition of insanity. And I just want to see, you know, changes changes be made
to hopefully get this team over the hump. Is it guaranteed that they will get over the hump making these changes, No, But what's also kind of guaranteed is running it back with the same type of crew and expecting different changes.
That's just not gonna happen.
No.
And I agree with both takes, and I think that for me, it's you don't have the same cliche. We're just one guy way. No, you're several guys away, and it's several guys away at key spots that you really underestimated playing with smaller sized linebackers.
And that's why that's important.
You're also underestimated trying to flex defensive linemen and you got blindsided by that. Look to me, the two positions that I'm looking at specifically offensively, and I'm thinking only of the Green Bay game, is the running back position and a wide receiver. I'm just saying the second wide receiver. You need another playmaker at the wide receiver spot. You need a guy that can be that possession receiver for you're not a contact the top off and all that
oh crazy stuff. I need a guy that when it's third and seven, I can run a slant, I can run something.
I know you can catch the ball. It's yards after to catch.
You look at the you look at teams all around the NFL that have more than just one wide receiver one guy.
Okay, running back wise, you can go back through.
The season and see that if we had a power back, that would have been the difference in that Miami game. If we had a power back, and when green Bay is running off, if we can run the ball, slow it down, make them, you know, make them wait to get the ball back, because that's going every time they get the ball. But we didn't have that. We're still having to trying to you know, get things over in the air. Look, going all in to me is man,
making sure your salary cap is healthy. Get guys re signed that you you know that you're definitely gonna need. But bring in the key pieces. Don't fool yourself again into thinking that, oh we can go with this same running back group and then, like you said, by definition of insanity, think that that's gonna work this year, because it's not. That's you know, like I appreciate all y'all's takes. Okay, ball in to me is what I saw the Rams do a few years ago.
Like that is that is all in?
Hey man, what were pushing all our chips in the table right now? We're not really worried about how it's going to play out for us over the next couple of years, because it's worth going to the super Bowl and winning one.
To me, that is all in. So they were.
Trading first round draft picks, they bringing in Jalen Rams, whoever. It is like they were doing a bunch of stuff that you looked at that team and you said, oh yeah, they waging it all right now, like you could see it. And I think that's what all in me did. I think we need to do that. I know it makes me a little nervous to do such a thing, but I think for me, it starts with all in. You know, your defensive line is an issue. You're into your defensive line.
It's been that way for a while. You I think you should make a big splash at that position, linebacker, same thing.
And that's uh. And this ain't all on on what's his name, Hankins, It ain't all over him.
And not saying it is.
But once again, when I talk about bringing the same crew back, you know, as soon as a man we gotta sign him back. He's got to be, you know, one of our number one part. I mean, this is the same man that he was a part of this defense that was giving up two hundred, you know, sixty sixty yards on the ground. Like I'm not saying it's all on him as far as you know the run, but he was there. But he was there, and we're acting like, man, we got beating the table to bring you know, a guy back like that.
Now, I'll go at this level about Hankins. I think he's a player who can help you and and and be a part of a team that can do something. Just playing him too much at his age, you're playing too much. I think he'd be a part of rotation. But you out here leaning on this dude like, hey, we need no no, that's that's that's not it. But if you brought another big inn in here and he's on that, okay, that's fine, and then maybe maybe our boy nevill Gallimore is that there. You know, but that's
what I'm thinking. They're a role for hank True, I think there's a role, but the starting role you being that guy were leaning on all you bigger na.
But that's why, that's why you that's why you draft Mazie, that's why you drafted and you expect for him to be in that rotation.
It's just what you know. You have to you have to rely on him.
Because something.
His role, Hankins roll should be when you are playing against a team like Green Bay or one of those teams who comes in and they say we are going to establish the run on you. That's when you say, you know, a big fellas. You got by eighty percent of the snaps, all right, and then we also just got brought another guy in who can also handle eighty percent of those snaps or less. Because y'all showed that y'all can stop the runner. Now they have to go
to another go to another dynamic of their offense. But I think you have to, like, you need to make a big splash there. It is one glaring weakness that has been here years for three years, like it.
Ain't going on everybody that and then you go in the playoffs, they oh, go right there to run through them.
So yep, so you need to do it.
And then linebacker, like I think the big two splashes that you need to make to be successful or defensive line and linebacker.
Can you make it through with Tony Poler? I think you can.
I think you can make it through with Tony Poller. Can you make it through with the center? I know cap and all that, I'm not I'm just talking about the player. I think you can make it through with that. I don't think you can make it through a season with the defensive line. INTI your defensive line you have right now in the linebacker.
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Back to the Players Lounge.
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Marshally First you didn't make the pisces cut off? What are you? I'm on them? Which one you do you claim? What said you called cliffs?
Yeah, comes up there? Not the dragon. I think they would trademark that thing.
Dragon thing.
Were all right playing slaunch box by Casinos Church Heck Mayor. So we're talking about the Cowboys and all in. Every year your team must change. There will be there will be some additions and subtractions, and the team is going to come down and start to say, hey, salary cap number. Yes, we we want to make we want to make something,
make something go away. Michael Gallup, we've talked about it right here on the players lounge, a wide receiver that they paid a couple of years ago despite having the torn a cl and they moved on from Amari Cooper. He's not been that player that they thought he was going to be, and Brandon Cooks came in securely became the number two wide receiver for the team. So now you're paying Michael Gallup a thirteen million dollar range to
be a number three wide receiver. And then you've drafted Jail and told what a third round guy now going to his third season. Last year, he drastically improved from his rookie year. So nationally, the stories are all picking up as they're starting to figure out saying, well, who's somebody that you could go ahead and move on from and get their money to put towards Dak Prescott's te Lamb and wherever other need you have. Michael Gallup's the guy. We spoke about it on this show before here. I
just don't see how you bring Michael Gallup back. And I mean it from the standpoint of return on investment. It's too much money for a guy that's not a number two wide receiver. I don't care what team you are, nobody's going to pay that. So I'm not be surprised that if they move on from Michael Gallap.
Yeah.
I mean listen, when you look at going all in, all right, and you start again listing players who, hey, can we can we be successful without this person? Based off what happened last year? I think Michael Gallup is one of those guys. He made some big catches and some big moments. But as far as being consistent over the year and looking at a guy, you say, does this constitute going all in by not using that money to go get another player?
Who we said maybe defensive line of linebacker.
I don't think that constitutes all in so I can see why that conversation is catching some steam. I love the return on investment because you didn't get it all right, and the jury sidelined all of that. And man, my, I just look, give me an appreciation for give appreciation for Michael Gallat and what he did coming out of Colorado State.
I believe where he was.
Drafted, he exceeded expectations. He came in and he balled out. Him and Mamari Cooper were two thousand yard receivers that you had in the end the season. And then after that, you know, he didn't give you the production that you would have liked over the last couple of years. And you can't pay a guy that much, as you stated, especially when those funds can be allocated towards other positions.
So that's why I was talking about free agency and saying, look, you gotta get a guy when you When it got to the point that defense has figured out the way that Mike McCarthy wanted to use Brandon cuts, they shut that down when they understood what were the best routes for Ceedee Lamb they shut that down. You didn't have another piece beside your tight end. And then and again, how easy is that to cover when you can get it?
Put a nickel on that. We just he was not able to win his individual matchup, and that's why you say, look, we've got to get a guy to come in here. I don't know what Jaialen Tolbert is at. I don't in three years, I don't think we figured that out yet. I don't think we have a definitive answer if we think that he can be that play making guy. And because there's still a question mark over that, I don't feel comfortable with going into this season with him as being my third option in this office.
And you guys are right about that when you look at it, because last year, if you really break it down, you know it was Ceedee, Lamb, Cooks, ferguson the tight end, you know, and Tolberding and Gallup were like right there. So he's really kind of a fourth or fifth option, meaning that he's going against probably the worst corner on the opposite you know team you're guarding them, and he
wasn't able to win those one on one battles consistently. Yeah, he had, you know, those deep balls with fifty to fifty balls every now and then. He was able to bring him in. But to get that type of money, And we always talk about it, once you get the bag, the expectations of your play, you know, they rise and you should be able to go out there and dominate
your one on one opportunities. And he just was and able to do that, whether it was you know, getting separation, whatever the case may be, Jack not trusting him with the rock, whatever the case may be, he wasn't able to perform on that note.
That he's carrying with the Dallas Cowboys.
So when you talk about you know, cap casualties and guys that are going to get maybe get released because their cap hit is too high, I feel like Gallop, you know, falls in that range.
Is it fair to say when you're making that amount of money that nobody should be mentioning other receivers being into three or four, Like you shouldn't be talking about turping, you shouldn't be talking about Tober. You should be like, hey, we need to find a way to get this guy more looks versus the opposite. So but once again shout out to Michael Gallup. He the injury. The injury was a setback, and sometimes it just doesn't work out when
you come up with an injury. I still think he's a good player, but when you talk about the amount of money that you would have to spend to keep him on the roster, I think that's that's the question that comes.
I could see the Cowboys moving on from Michael Galloping and going to another team at a lower price and having a real good year and being a good football player. I just totally disagreed with how they went about it from the standpoint of I remember sitting in the press box and won name these two media people we spent the whole season argued about Cooper and Gallup, like who would be back next year? And they were all about Gallup. I'm like, no, Cooper. Cooper has been a one. Cooper
saved the season when they got the gap. The problem with Cooper was they didn't immediately sign him to a deal when they traded for it, and then they let him get to free agency and you had to pay that crazy number. They should have take care of that business before. And obviously we know it got a little personal, but why would I give a guy who just had an acl in January, all that money and then well, you know he's not gonna be that guy in year one.
I I just thought I never got it. I never ever got it, and so you move on from him. I understand Tolbert because Tolbert time proof of consistency. He has not shown us that he could be trusted.
But I think this is also the part where you as a football team say to yourself, Okay, if I've got Lamback, I've got Cooks, I've got then you could look to the draft, or you could look to find who's another receiver for whatever reason, is out there free agency that we think we can plug in here and they could fit and be a part of the process
at a good price. That's going back and trying to figure out how you know, Bill Belichick with Tom Brady was very good at figuring out out who was Brandon LaFell, Chris Hogan, Danny Amandola, you know all throughout that tenure. And obviously Tom made a lot of them dudes look good, but they found people who could can you fit into our system and do what we do? This is where I would go to a guy like Schottenheimer, who is it that you know because Seattle through the years could
find some guys. They've got three elite guys now that I really like, but they could find some guys that could work with Russell during that time. And I think that's the that's the challenge for Will McLay and I think Will through the years has been able to do well at that. But dude, you shake a.
Tree, you go find some receivers.
Kansas City has shown us in any Kansas City.
No, no, no, that's exactly right. That's why you can't use them as the model.
But can you at least figure out the concepts of what we want you to do? This is this is the challenge of being a personnel.
And you and you went to Tom and he went to Tom and Hallway. That's what I'm saying. That's the difference in that. And when I look at a number two receiver, I look at guys like Brandon and you, I look at t Higgins who guys like that that are playing behind a bona fide number one guy, but the production is.
There for their first und second, the first and second.
But no, no, when you can go to Pooka, uh, how you find a guy like that in the draft yeah.
I mean a guy that if you shut down that first option, you're definitely not going to be able to shut down the second option. And NFL teams are looking for that that the Houston Texans they get tanked down a guy like I mean, that was huge. I mean, you get a guy like that that could be it could come right off the plane and have the production that he has. The Cowboys just haven't been able to
put that piece in. And I have nothing against Brandon Cooks, okay, but I'm just saying, bro, come on now, let's get.
Us, let's get it.
Cooks the second half of the year. Half of the year, I thought, I thought he came around now and this is this is this is just my my, my small little take. They figured it out the second half of the year, and then they also figured out CD Lamb. So it took him a minute to get to figure out how to get this thing going. What if year two is even better because Cooks's resume says you do right by me, I'll get your thousands, And I don't
know how right they well, we know this. The first part of the day weren't getting right by C. D. Lamb, and then the second half of the year, didn't they figured out and.
We again he went on show.
Right once on the show, we started complaining, you start giving it the ball and the production was it So, I mean, I what could they do in year two? But at some point in time you go have if you're bringing him back, you're gonna have to add, hey, man, we need to give some more. But that also comes upon with hearty to get the man some target. That perfect example when they've done this in the past. We were there, Laurent Robinson came in, Will found him right
off the streets, came in. Guy balled out unbelievably as a number two receiver. I think he had what eleven touchdowns that him and Dad's going crazy. That's the type of production you know, you would like to have from a number two receiver that consistently.
If you give me one on one, I'm gonna make you pay.
And then if you decide all right, we're just gonna cover both guys one on one, then Dads went off. I mean, it is that's what we need as far as the number two receiver that can come in here and beat and consistently beat that man the man coverage because that's what teams are gonna do. They're gonna double CD throw, let Ferd get his little five yard outs in there, here and there, and they're saying, we're gonna
make you know, galloping and Tobert beat us. And they weren't able to do that as far as the passing game is concerned. Yeah, a playmaker, play bicker, playmaker, big difference. Now, granted, Romo was in his bag that year.
Laurent Robinson t will.
Till yeah, will forget about I forgot about it. They don't mention the number two he will.
I forgot he will.
Going back to twenty thirteen, Terrence Williams fourth round pick at receiver, twenty fourteen, Devon Street, fifth round pick at wide receiver, going to the twenty seventeen draft, fourth round pick Ryan Switzer wide receiver, twenty eighteen third round pick, Michael Gallup wiree receiver, twenty twenty Ceed Lamb first round pick wide receiver, and twenty twenty two third round pick Jalen Tolbert wide receiver, and then Jalen Brooks last year,
seventh rounder at wide receiver. So we're seeing a mixed bag at it. So and even in free agency, we've seen a mixed bag, which I guess would probably make for most of the National Football League right when you talk about just a mixed bag. But this is another another case of let's see how it goes. But it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be fun to just sit around here see exactly what they do and can they find the right guy because their quarters will be making fifty million dollars.
Man, I was just about to say, where is that?
Can we get it? Get ap b O Dak Prescott. Can we get a word from my leader?
The leader is expecting to be a father, so no doubt. But that's that that's supposed to be happening soon. So like this month around this see.
Kyle Yomans, Kyle Yomans just had three babies and I called a game with him just two days ago.
I'm like, what are you doing here? Trying to get some.
Sometime?
I mean that man, that man understands hes gonna be haing to buy three diapers exact bags. You know, have a Costco Sam's or whatever car wholesaling. So yeah, man after trying to get pa, yes, yes, but his kids are in the nicky right now, so so he's uh waiting you know they're going to be there for a little bit. But man, three three kids. Man, so congratulations to him.
I just teased him.
I said, man, when number four, number four?
What he said? You might have number six? Definitely what he said, going for four, I may come up with six.
I said, no, I think, guy, but I don't think you'll do three again. You might roll it, you might.
Last Yeah, no, no, you are right, you are right, last word totally again. Where would Newie be when you need a babysit?
Unavailable?
So you know how they go.
I got my own. I'm trying to part. I'm trying to.
Mary Church Harrison, thank you, day be great.
Thank you.
I have new Scruggs, Chris By, Joshy Jazz, everybody's been a part of the players last night about t tostitos.
Thank you.
Will catch you next Monday right here on Dallas Cowboys do Coing Radio.
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Yeah