David Leadbetter

the game. And it's so nice to be able to chat to you again today with something so many interesting things to speak about, because you really highly involved, you know, I remember, I remember you played the tour in South Africa and you also played in Europe if I'm not mistaken, and then decided to go into teaching, and you know,

you've had so many good players over the years. And one of the things that are frustrating me right now is when I hear people talk about the modern days swing, you know, David, Honestly, if you look at a book by Percy Boomer, I don't know if you've ever read that bottom line, one of my favorite on learning goals. Yeah, that's right. He talks about only of the things today.

Henry Cotton wrote a book would best be a hundred years ago with the cross handed and all these different pudding strokes and things in there, the speed slots in the gay and the club there is I'm dying to hear of one new thing that I've never heard of in my life. And I can assure you there's nothing, there's no such thing as a modern day swing. What do you think, well, I I tend to agree with you there, Gary. I mean, look, you've got obviously you've

got modern athletes. Now athletes have improved. I mean you started this whole trend, and that the fitness aspect and the change in equipment. I think the the equipment now matches the player a lot better. Where back in your day and even my day, it was a bit of a trial and area to find the right driver, find the right shaft. Now obviously you can you can pinpoint what suits you best. And even golf balls. I mean they're finding golf balls some spin more some spin there.

So the athletes of advantage obviously, But as far as technique is concerned, I mean, we've seen it all before. I mean it's like, hey, maybe we're not wearing tweet jackets and playing with hickory shafts, but the fact is, I mean, you know, they're still trying to figure out how to get that down ball in the hole and fewer shots as possible, you know, and so yeah, I mean,

you know, what do they call the modern swing? I mean, the modern swing now is something which I know is really uh, you know, makes you angry as the old sort of you know, Hey, this position here, which you know we've seen players in the past, Trevino, Palmer and et cetera, and you know, it's it's a way to play. But if there's any longevity to the game, I mean, if you look at the greats, I mean, they never

had that position. It was almost as if they had this neutral position, which Hogan was a big advocate of. Exactly if you look at longevity, and of course today everybody's good a different opinion. I wanted to have longevity and I still want longevity at eighty five. And if you look at Palmer, he had a very very short career. Nick Ut one majors for twenty five years. I won for twenty, Palmer one for six. Now you can play golf that way? You can't play, yes, but I don't know.

You see, if your body is not strong enough, if your body is not strong enough, if you start to hit those hooks and you can't get the club back, that your backs wing get shorter and shorter. If you look at John Ram, this highly talented man. I mean, this guy could really play his back swing honestly, goodness is so short. And what's going to happen in ten years time. It's going to get shorter and shorter. So you've got to think of the length of the back swing.

And I was very interested to see one of the commentators, uh on the during the Baster said, oh, you know, they don't have these long flowing swings anymore. You know, I've never heard such nonsense in my life. The greatest players that ever lived, the greatest swing ever that ever man ever, ever ever had by Miles Ben Hogan. He had a long back split. Sam Sneed had a long backsweek. Jack Nicholas had a long backswek Tiger Woods had a long back speak every superstar now to me, I have

my own version of a superstar. Everybody uses the words superstar too lightly. I think you've got to win six majors. I've never seen a superstar that didn't ever the had a short back sleep. And you know, I was blessed to be around Hogan, and of course he'd never say much, but he said some things to me that really enabled me to win the eighteen major championships, and so you know you're gonna be very careful what you say, the same as they criticize Deshambro. You know, oh, here comes

the cook, here comes the scientist. Well, the shoes on the other foot, actually Deschambro, and I'd be anxious to hear what you've got to say. I think he has an outstanding swing. Now he does slash it an occasionally, but that's what makes him exciting. But you and I know it's not long driving the twins tournaments. It's an asset, but it's always the patting and the mind. What do you think, right right? Right? Well, yeah, Branson Deshambo, he

is he's a a different type of individual. Let's face it, he's got a he's got an inquisitive mind. He's very scientific in his approach, and I mean he's not stupid. I mean, look, he realizes, like the US Open, Hey, if I hit it fifty yards further close to bit the green and he's other guys and coming out of this rough, I've got a much better chance than somebody hitting a seven nine. I'm hitting herring a wedge. So

you know it's interesting. I mean, obviously time will tell hopefully his body can stand up to the I mean, he certainly puts a lot of stress on his body. I mean, you know, even the on the eve of the Master's Gary, he was out there for an hour pounding drivers and whether certainly he's got to work out in order to facilitate that. But it's a I mean he's got a he's got a very simple swing, very simple. I mean it's sort of a you know, you you hear about more Norman, right, I mean I watched him

hit balls. I'm sure you saw him over the years. I mean, he was a great player in Canada, but he was certainly one of the straightest. It isn't he had what they call a one playing swing, and that's what the shambo works on. But he's I mean, he's I mean it's interesting and I think it's good for the game. You've got people like that talking about something, people like this. I mean, in your day, I mean, you were you, you were sort of a one off. The factor is working out what the hecks out? Are

you crazy? And it's gonna look, you're gonna lose your field, You're going to do this, You're gonna do that, and and so you just proved that, and I think, you know, maybe he's just proving things as well. And the fact is that, look, if you get bigger, you get stronger, and you have mobility, you're going to hit the ball a long way. And as as you say, look it's about Paddy hitting your iron shots close to the whole. To Golf is a multi faceted game, let's face and

it's not just one aspect. I mean, if you look at all the greats, including yourself, I mean, alright, you're a great bucker player, You're a great chipper, you're a great padder. You know, you're a great fairware would player. So I mean you've got to have all these elements going. I think that's the difficulty with this game. It's not just like baseball where hey smash it out of the park and how you're going to be a great player if you do that regularly engulf I mean, there's how

many long drive guys have actually been successful. So so we're seeing maybe a change in trends, and I think

it's interesting. I mean, we talked about the involvement of the game, and I mean that is obviously power is going to be I mean, and we'll maybe we'll talk about that how they reign in some of that power because some of these golf courses are being made a little bit obsolete in many in many instances, which is which is a shame that you know, I mean, that's I guess it's called progress, right, Garret, Well, you know, here's an interesting thing that the leaders of the game

have got to wake up and realize. And I admire the leaders of the game, but they've got to have more vision where the shambro ends up. Now you're gonna have people come out and carry the ball over that you've never seen a big play like Lebron James or Michael Jordan's come and play golfing. They're coming because these young people at university now they are learning that there's longevity and golf and you can make a lot of

money for a long time. Where's other sports? And then if l players there for three years and he leaves, and man, he's been hit in the head and his shoulders and he's an agony for the rest of his life. So and everybody wants to have a support to participate in for as long as possible. One of the great joys I wake up every day again to the gym. Can I beat my age by eighteen shots? Can I stretch and get my swing longer? You know, there's always a challenge until the day you die. That's if you

love the game, which I just love the game. I love playing with with business people or anybody. And I love talking to young people. And people say to me, these young kids, what do I do to become a champion? I said, it's a thing called it. And I'm just going to digress for a minute. I think the player on the tour at the moment who has really got it is Jordan's speech. Now, Jordan's speech. He is as good a player I think from sixty yards that the world has ever seen. I mean that's a big statement.

But he's not in the top thirty players from t to green. And but he's got it. He knows how to compete, he knows how to never give up. He knows how to play the right shot at the right time. It doesn't always come off. But because he has a lot of faults and he's swing and if he ever gets the right, goodness me will he be number one in the world without a question. And he's a wonderful young man. He's a real all American guy, and I

just love him so. But Winston Churchill said, the height that great men reached and kept we're not attained by sudden flight. But while his opponents were sleeping, he was toiling upward in the night. And that's what I did. I went to the gym at twelve o'clock when I came back from a dinner, and I asked the hotel manager, please let me have the key for the gym. No, no, no, and I said please. Now, I promise you I'll keep it tidy. Now, this is what has been Shambro is doing.

And I just love his work ethic and don't forget when he was the tournament at Arnold Partner's Course, he won it not because of his long driving. He won it because of his putting. The way the commentators were talking about, you would have thought, and I said to the one commentator, how far did he drive westward? By oh ninety yards? Well, the way you guys were talking, you'd think he'd have a twenty shot lead coming to the last hole. But with his long hitting, it all

came down to Deschambro holding a lot of puts. And this is what always wins the tournament. Tiger Woods was not a good driver of the ball accurate wife. Neither was for Michauls, but they were one and two in the world. We know you can play a bad round of golf and if you put well, you can break seventy, but you cannot break seventy if you're putting badly. Yeah, I remember years ago you saying, Gary, there's going to be people are gonna be coming out. They're gonna be

hitting the ball four hundred yards. This is a twenty years ago. I remember chatting to you and no, there's no question. Look, athletes are better. I mean training is better. Although having said that, I think some of the training I mean you, I'd like to hear your opinion on this, because if you look at Tiger, I think to some

extent he's trained the wrong way. I mean I think a lot of his injuries could be actually maybe based on how he was working out, I mean running with running marathons with weight belts on and so on and so forth. And so I always remember John Daily telling me, Gay, this is a complete this is a complete the opposite of the way you think. I said, John, you ever work out? He says, Now he says. My theory is he said you can you can pull a muscle, but

you can't pull fat. So that's a different a different approach. I guess, well, I want to say this, John Daily, in my opinion, he uh he was second to Tiger on the tour with ability. This man had such ability. But he certainly had unbelievable ability, A great touch, a great touch. You know. So what are your feelings on Rory McElroy because obviously immense talent that just doesn't seem

to fulfilled it. I mean, if you you would say probably at this stage of the games, but I think you've got one four majors um, But I mean you'd say he probably underachieved in many respects. Yes, Well said, He's definitely underachieved because this man has the best golf swing on the tour. And uh, I know he's obsessed with hitting the ball a long way, but that's not a bad fault. He's a great exerciser. I just love the guy. He's a He exercises and to win four

majors as a starter as phenomenal. But you know, I'm expecting him to go on I mean every year. I just think he's going to win the Masters because the course has made for him. There's never been a golf course that has made more for him than that golf course. What is wrong with him? I don't know. I don't profess to know, but I do know one thing. It's not in the swing. And if he's looking for it in the swing, and I see he had Pete Cowan yet, fine, but I don't think you should be having lessons from

a O the week before the Masters. I don't think you should be doing that. But everybody's got their own opinion. I think, well, when I wanted to win the Grand Slam, and when I went to I used to go into a reverie. I used to do meditating, I used to do positive thinking. I mean, I don't want to go into the whole thing, but I trained myself mentally to

win the tournament. When I wanted to beat Jack Nicholas to win the Grand Slam, I went to the scoreboard in the morning at six thirty and I sat in front of the scoreboard on a tight ch position and I visualized Gary Player, my name being on that scoreboard, and I did so many things that were very different to ethletes that do today. Now there's no question. The reason that Rory McElroy it's nothing to do these swing at all. The swing is not the thing, it's the mind.

He's got to get that right when he plays in that tournament. And I don't know what he thinks about. I don't know if he's nervous. You don't know what's inside of a man, David. But my goodness me, if ever I've seen a man with talent, it's Rory mcelroyin We're all want to see him when the Grand slamb same as we want to see Jordan's speeds when the Grand Slam. So I wouldn't speed gets his string right, he will win the Grand Slam, there's no question. Because

this guy is he's got it. Really, how many players can I see on the tour that have got it? My my idea of it. Not many wonderful strikers in the ball, wonderful scorers. I don't know how consistent they are at playing. That's another thing that's important. But I don't know. Does money have an effect? You know they're making hundreds of millions. To me, money wasn't the thing. If somebody I didn't worry, I didn't play golf for money because there wasn't much money. I played because I

wanted to be the best and said it. Arnold and said it, Jack and said it, Travina and said it, watch it and said it home. I wouldn't say that sneat. He loved money, man money, that men would travel from here to Australia for five grand. How do you see that?

The great champions of the part of your era and even subsequent to that, I mean, how do you see them versus the modern day player should be say do you do you see there's the I mean, do you see there's more love in the game those players back then you talked about the money, and obviously these players making so much money now flying around in private jets and everything else, does that somehow dampen the their ability to sort of maybe become great at winning a bunch

of majors? Brandon Grace said to me at Cape Town, who I love by the way, we were in at fan Courtney said, you know when you and Jack and Arnold and Tom Watson when Torments said were only about thirty players you had to beat. Today, we've gotta beat at least eight players. I said, you're right, you've gotta beat ad players. But I came down during COVID in Philadelphia at my daughter's house, and I sat down and I got all the players that played in our time.

There were fifty nine major champions playing out tour at that time. Think about it, fifty nine. There's certainly not fifty nine now. So people underestimate players of the past and what they do at present. When I played the tour, I made the same mistake as Brandon, and I thought, oh, well, this is much tougher to win golf tourments today than when Hogan played. Oh you just looked who played when Hogan was there. Just sit down and do your homework

and see the players that were there. There were players that golfers on the store have never even heard of. And you think that Bobby Jones, the scores he did with a ball that went eighty yards less, a walking stick, a face on the club and looked like a frying pan. I mean, in the conditions that he played in the scores he did unbelievable. We must have respect for present

and for past. The game. Interesting, know what you think You're gonna go to St. Andrews for the Open soon and on a calm day, the right conditions, Bryson deshambo is going to drive nine greens. Now, what do you feel? I mean, I'm in favor of slowing the ball down. Otherwise we can't build more golf courses. A lot of people who are city slickers and don't understand the situation of water. That's the biggest issue. We're gonna run out of water in the world by the five will be

short of twenty five percent of water. Now, can you go and build longer golf courses? No, it's too expensive. Machinery is a fortune, I mean the fertilization, but the water is the issue. So we have no choice but to slow the ball down. Um. I know Tom Watson said the other day, and I respect his opinion. He he doesn't think they should slow the ball down. Arnold and Jack and a host of others. I think Trevino

believes that. I think you believe in it. If you don't, it's going to become a joke on how golf has played. And I mean, we don't want to see that because the average man cannot relate to it. Well, you know,

I think it boils down. Gary. Look, I mean I I agree with you I mean something has to be done because otherwise, I say, you know, if every golf course is going to be a pitch and pat tack course, and so it's I mean, how when you think about preparing a golf course, they would say, we will make the course is fast and narrow, the fairways thick in the rough. But that's for one week a year. What are the poor members going to do the rest of

the time. So I think we when when you look at legislation, I've always felt that there should be I wouldn't say two sets of rules, but I think that the tour players, maybe the U. S g a A at that elite level, need to govern themselves. I mean, I think the average golfer who wants to go up there and have some fun and if he hits the twenty yards longer with a particular driver or a particular ball, hey have had it because they're just gonna have more enjoyment.

But at the tour player level, I mean there has me Take baseball for instance, I mean, look at Major League Baseball. They don't use aluminium bats that you know they used, wouldn't they use wooden bats? Okay, So so that there can be some changes, and maybe the tour has to start to regulate itself and figure out Okay, if well, what if we want to make this a game for the future, because otherwise you're gonna you're gonna eliminate players. I mean, you think of players now like

a Corey pavement, how would they compete today? It's it would be impossible. I mean, here's a player that worked the ball and did this and did that with the golf ball. But so you're seeing I mean, yes, you know it's an athletic sport, but the fact is you want to bring all types of players. Say, it's more than just long hitting, as you say, being able to control the ball, being able to control your distances, control

the shape of the shot that trajector, et cetera. So I don't know, I just felt that there may be there, maybe should be make what they call it bifurcation. I think that it's a fancy word that they used where But hey, there's some slightly different rules for the tour, you know, So I don't know if that's a if that's an answer or not. I mean, and everybody wants to play what the tour players are playing. Let's face it, Gary they're not playing the same clubs or using the

same ball tour plays are using now. I spoke to Peter Dawson of the R and a who I got on extremely well whip it here and I completely disagreed with each other. I said, there should be equipment for pros and and the amateurs should be allowed to use what they like, because we need more people to play golf. You don't want to cut the ball back for the amateurs. You don't want to stop the long pattern for amateurs.

A man's got the yips so badly. A friend of mine was three putting from two ft, so he gave up the game and they took the long patter away. Let him enjoy it. I mean what they hanged now. I don't believe in the long padder for professional golf. I agree with you it should be maybe the pro professional golfers should run their goss start golf, and the amateurs should run their side the golf. It's not a case of disrespect. It's a case that professionals know a

lot more than amateurs about the game. And it's like teachers. I mean, you know, uh, if you're going to go to a man for a lesson. You better go to the right person. You've to go to the person you know. If I was a young pro today, I'm coming to you for a liston because you played. You played, You just didn't read about something and come into the game. And now I profess to be a great teacher. Pete cow And I like his idea because he played. You've

got to have been in the arena to understand the game. Now, teachers, I think their teachers for for the club pros who are good for their members. They can teach a young boys playing the game. But when it comes to teaching champions, well, I mean I just see David. I just look at the golfers, think about it, Trevor im a Month, Schwartzaw, Mike Weir, Ian Maker Finch. I can go to Martin Kaimba, I can go down the line, David who won majors, who couldn't play anymore? So why did they go and change?

Now you go to somebody who's never been in the arena and you're gonna listen to him. You've got to go in that case, if you want to know something about business, I'm not going to the U an average person. I'm going to a champion who knows about business. So everybody for their lost. I'm not criticizing teachers at all. I'm just saying it's all categorized. You've gotta if you want ever lesson you go to and depending on your play.

But man, if I was a young guy and I want to know something about the game, I'm going to leave Travino. He was as sharp as attack this man and know when to play, what shot, how to think? David, there's a special there's a lifetime on how to play golf. A lot of players can hit the ball magnificence, but they don't know how to play, what shot, how to think. I mean, there's it's so it's a science and people don't realize it. And you cannot know that science unless

you have been in the arena yourself. How can a man teach you how to do certain things when he's never been on the arena, right, And you want to go to teachers, not young guys on the block. You want to go to people that have been around a long time. You've been around a long time, and when you started, like me, when I started, I did things wrong in this in the theory of the game. When you started, you were teaching certain things that you wouldn't teach.

The day changes the price of survival, right right, Yeah, It's interesting how you talk about people like Lee Trevino obviously, I mean shot makers extraordinaire. I mean, he actually had quite an influence on young Tony Finale. Tony Finale obviously, you know, one of the one of the better ball strikers out there, one of the one of the longest hitters out there. I've known him a long time. He actually grew up in a very poor family, and I

mean he's done it exceedingly well. I mean he hasn't quite broken through anyone one tourn but if you look at you look at it, he's had like forty top tens in the last three years, so I mean something ridiculous different number. But actually at LEA spent quite a bit of time with Tony talking about shot making and stuff, which I think a lot of the young players and speaking speaking of people like yourselves and something they I think they'd benefit tremendously because it was a different game

back then. But there is still that factor. I think in today's game, you know where a craftsman can still be successful. I mean as long as you're long enough. Okay, somebody like at Jordan's speed. As you know, he's not the most straightest driver in the world, but you know when he gets it within a certain distance, my goodness. I mean, he is the best in the world. And there's there's other players. There are a few other players like that. So I think it's a I think it's

the case of learning as much as you can. I mean you did. I mean you picked everybody's minds and you created your own, yes, I own approach. But you took all that information and you figured out how it would work for you, right, which I think is what the grapes really do. David, you just made such sense. If Ben Hogan had said to me, Gary, I see something in your swing, I would have got it will make you play better. I would have got on a plane from South Africa and come here for the lesson

and going back to Southern because he knew here. He knew what he was talking about. And that is so important, so important to have the knowledge, the knowledge and golf is so important of a young guy. I mean, I'm watching a young girl up in Augusta there swinging the club, and I said to what do you want to do? She's I want to be a pro. One day. I said, okay, what are you thinking about when you hit the ball.

She says, oh, well, here's the club. I just think about the club coming back square to the ball, and I visualized the target and David, six out of ten young people tell me this. I said, Oh, you've got a chip in the ball. Have you you tell the chip go to go to the target? And it goes? I said, can't you understand it's a movement in the swing that makes the ball go straight. You can't just visualize you bring the club back square and there's the target.

You visualize the ball going to the target. That ball doesn't know you. It will not go to the target unless you apply the correct action, right right right when I was the young man, you so right, I asked everybody. And I've got to tell your lovely story. I played with Stam Sneed at Greenbrier as a young man. I just got over here. It was actually one of my I think the second golf tournament I played in America.

And I played thirty six holes with him at the end and we tired, and on his home course and we went seven holes in the playoff and he beat me. And I turned and I said, Mr. Sneed, is there anything you can see in my swing that can help me? He says, I ain't seen your swing yet, son. Whereas Jack Nicholas, who's the greatest gentleman I've ever played with,

you asked him anything, he'd try and help you. I played him in the World Match, played in London twice, thirty six holes and along with golf course in October all the newspapers unnem st said he's gonna beat me. I beat him six and four, five and four. The next year and I was on a tea and Jack said, why is your right hand extremely over to the left? Get it back to where it was now. Not many guys do that. Jack Nicholas is the gentleman of gentlemen to play golf. He wants to beat you when you're

playing well. And uh so that's been a very exciting thing and a very interesting thing for me that the young people today they'd rather take advice from somebody who's never been able to play at all than somebody who've been champions. And that's fine with me, and it's fine with me and fine with Jack. We don't mind but you can teach. People can learn so much from experience. But we we have a different brand of thinking now, and it's a different time to play. There's big money,

it's more business. It's not like we were. We'd get in a car and we'd drive a thousand miles together and we'd stop and we're go and play another golf course on the way. And we'd stay at people's houses almost every weekend. We did things that don't exist now. But things go according to the time. You can ever say what was right or what was wrong. But I know one thing. I enjoyed the player the tour much

more than I would have enjoyed it today. But I would have liked to have had the opportunity to keep played for the money. You know that that I think tenth place and Augusta this year, if I'm not mistaken now, I think got three hundred thousand dollars. Nobody ever made three hundred thousand dollars for being the leading money winner ever. Arnold Palmer was the first man too with a hundred thousand dollars in a year. If that was not the issue, we had a great time. We played with in two

pro ams. We love to be with people that it's not like that anymore. It's a completely different game, and so be it. Yeah, you're right. I mean players do have shorter careers these days. I mean I think in terms maybe maybe it is the money factor. I mean people say, well, Deshambo, let's see how he isn't ten years time. Well he's probably one of a billion dollars by that time, and really just gonna he doesn't, wouldn't

you know, not worried about it. But I mean it's it is interesting, is to say the longevity of the game. Even if you look at some players, even like you know, you would call him a journeyman player, but somebody like a Steve Stricker who's played well in the thirties and his forties fifties. So there is something about the fact that probably players who don't get that many injuries probably last longer as well. Maybe a swing that's easier on the body who knows that. I want to talk about

one thing, Garrett. I mean, I think one of the you know, obviously your your mental toughness that really helped you in match play situations. I mean, I would love to see you played in a President's Cup or you know, obviously the Writer Cup, but the you're probably one of your greatest matches, if you will, was against Tony Lehma right when you won the World Match Player, when you were seven down with sev to play right, and everybody'd

written you off, including him. I think he'd said, don't worry, don't worry, Gary, You've been invited back next year. Regardless. You know that's that's exactly what happened. We're walking down and I'm sent him down. He says, never mind, Gary, you'll be invited back next year. You are the US Open champion and you've won this championship. But I think to myself, mad over until the fair lady says I'm gonna get you, my man. And he goes in and the press are all saying, well, you gotta beat the

present World Match Played champion. And I didn't have anything to eat. I went straight to the practice team and I was hooking in the ball and I was trying to work out while it's hooking. And I practiced, and I got on the first tea in the afternoon and what did I do? Hooked at and lost another hole. So but you see, you've got to understand that's why I was trying to tell people watching the Masters this year, they will said, oh, well, Dick, he's got it sewn up.

I said, what, you can have a nine shot leader Augusta. I'm made Arnold parmerent I played one year in Augusta playing the third hole. He was nine shots ahead of me. We stood on the eleventh t. I was two shots ahead of him. Excuse me the twelve t. I mean, people don't understand that. When when Decembro said this is a past sixty seven for me, I thought, whoa boy, that's a make. So that, of course, there's there's certain things about that course you can never explain. It's a

hidden it's a hidden monster. Have everything go right and you can shoot as many of us are shot sixty fours, and but my goodness, you can lose. And you know, look at him, Dick at the end. He doesn't have to make a six at number fifteen because now he's got a chip back with the water on the other side, and then he makes bogey at the next He doesn't have to hit two drives on the last two holes like that. Either. I tell you something. You may not go to sleep thinking you've got it, even if you're

six or seven. As we saw with Greg Norman and and other players, Art Wall won the tournament six behind. I wanted seven boon. I went three tourments in our row, seven behind in a row. So people, you've gotta knowledge. I come back to knowledge. Education in life is the light. It's so important. But what you've gotta do. You gotta play golf and you've got to sit there, and you've gotta say. I love adversity, do you know? I used to pray for adversity when I was playing us and

I'm a great believe in prayer. It helps me to run my life, good things and bad things. And I used to say, I really, I'm gonna mather my father. I am going to love adversity today because I know I'm going to get it, so I can't avoid it. I don't hate it. Why hate something when you're gonna get it, you can't avoid I'm gonna love it, and I'm gonna show you what a man I am. So

I had a different trend of thinking. And I never felt sorry for myself ever because I had enough of that when I was a kid, and I never worried about choking David. This is an awful big statement. I never choked. I didn't win a tournament when I had a position to win. I was a position to win the Masters twice an Arnold Palmer hold a sixty five ft Bart Augusta from the bright hand side of the green. And then I had another time I had a six side in my hand, and I put in the bunker

front bunker buried, and I never won. But I never choked, because I said, am I gonna choke about hitting a golf ball and winning in Syria and Iraq and places in the world, in in Africa where you know their wars? And am I going to worry about playing golf and hitting a golf ball? I adjusted my mind. I could go on and on and on and on and on tell you the things I did from my mind very different.

I did, very different. Here's a story, Gary, you can deny it or agree with it, that I heard one of your tears in South Africa was a great Harold Henning Uh, one of the many Henning brothers Uh. And he said, I believe that he was saying that you were playing to get in the World Cup, and you're rooming together, and I think he woke up at two in the morning, and he said, what the hell is going on here? Because he heard you talking to yourself in front of the mirror that, hey, I'm going to

be number one, I'm the greatest. I mean it's like, you know, almost like a Muhammad Ali type thing, right, I mean, was it was that true or false? No, that's true. He said, are you He said, you're talking here to your steep boy. Are you awake? And then there was no gym. He didn't have a gym. There had spain in the hotel where we were staying, so I had George Bloomberg and his wife were staying in adjoining room. So I knocked on the door. I said, George, come yet when he says, what do you want? He

was in his pajamas. I said, get on my back. Now. He hasn't made of seventy and he's holding got an unding my squatch. He said, Gary, I don't like this. I said, shut up. So the next you are knocked on the door, he says, the doors locked. I'm not coming coming. It's it's interesting when you look back, I mean, I mean you you spoke about Greg Mormon a while ago, and I was saying there's one of the most talented players who really, if you think about it, was very

much an underachiever. I mean, you want two majors, he want to opens. But I mean the had a lot of things happened to him. But here's a guy that's just something that was snake bit or something. I mean, you know, you would have expected him to sort of one eight to ten majors in his career from a pure talent standpoint. I mean there was nobody better than him at that stage. No nobody. Yeah, I mean he found it difficult to close the deal. No, that's right.

You see, you can go. You can mention this about a lot of players in life. Uh. You know. The trouble is when you do it, you don't mean to be critical. I'm never critical. I respect for everybody. But there are facts, the facts that you cannot deny, and some players might not like it, but that is a fact that Greg Norman, I mean, he was I never saw a better driver of a golf call than Greg Norman. Never. But there was something wrong. There was something wrong, and

I don't profess to know what. I don't think he played under pressure very well. I think that was something that I noticed in his career. And what the reason was, I don't know, but he should have won at least at least eight or at least six majors at least so but you know, here's the thing I tell I've got twenty two grandchildren, six children and two great grandchildren.

And when I talked to young people too, I said, please don't ever use the word if if ben Hogan never had to go to war, and if ben Hogan never had an accident, he would have won way over twenty major championships. He went toward his prime, so he never played in fifteen major hampionships. Brian, same with Sam Snead. Basically what would they have done? If Tom Watson had won the PGA, he would have won the Grand Slab.

If Rory McElroy had won the Masters, If Jordan's Speet wins the p G A which he will in time, I think, and if this and if that, I mean, you can go on and on and on. If Arnold Palmer won the PGA would have won the Grand Slam. If Travino won the Masters, he would have won the Grand Slam. But you've gotta laugh, and you've got to enjoy the game and you know. Fortunately, I'm so delighted I came along at my time. Yes, would I like to have had the opportunity to play against Tiger and

these guys. I would have loved it with his modern day equipment where I could have hit the ball fifty yards further, play on greens like this, free telephone calls, flying in a private jet. You know, it's just free food, people media at the airport at ten o'clock at night. I mean, it's a dream world. It's a it's actually it's not on. It's not on. And but I'd like to just digress for a minute and just say I cannot tell you how excited I was to see he

DECKI much of Yama win the tournament. I've played in an Asia for thirty years and went to Japan on many occasions, and they've had so many good players Jambo, Asaki, you know, Oki and uh to Go, you can go on. They've had a host of good players come close to winning majors. The Japanese people, six percent of the population

played golf. They've they're fanatical about the game. I can tell you if we never had this COVID lockdown, you would have had players or excuse me press didn't get on a plane the night before the final of Augusta. They would have come there just to cover he DECKI whether he won or lost, I've sent him I'm very happy you won because you will now be the Prime Minister and I won't need a visa to go there. But the thing is that what he did was just remarkable and it's gonna boost the game of golf to

such a degree in Asia which benefits us all. And I cannot speak highly enough on And also the way you hang in there, and man, the way this guy rips through the ball. I mean, I've always said you've got to have an uninterrupted flow of motion through the ball. And look at him, he goes to like lightning. I mean, it's it's wonderful. And that's if you don't do that under pressure, you've had it. Yeah, he's I mean, he's a very mild mannered guy. Doesn't say a lot. In

fact that it was quite funny. A Japanese reporter was saying, well, he doesn't speak much English, but he also doesn't speak much Japanese. Gary, I want to I want to pay you a top of me because a lot of people say so what is it about Gary? You know that. What is it about? Gary? And I said, you know, one of the things that there's very few people in this world who when you're around, the vibes and off. And I think your enthusiasm and zest for life and

your positiveness, I think it rubs off on everybody. I just want to tell you this because I know it's like it's it's you. You have what I would call that feel good factor, and so obviously you you you utilize that in your daily life, and I think you know every people that you come into contact with, whether you're promoting fitness and health and the game of golf as a whole and globalizing the game to make it better for everybody. But you know, I think that's one

of the things to me I've always sort of felt about. Wow, you know, you just feel good after being around you. So so if I feel good being around you, you're gonna feel good about being around yourself as well. Well. Thank you, David. That's such a nice compliment, and I appreciate that. But I just love people. Man. I speak to the old lady who's sweeping the airport. Actually I speak to a guy sweeping the street I just love people.

I've been blessed to be around, from president to put villagers in Africa and India, and you learn something from everybody. When you go to those villages in Africa and India, you learn about humility, and you learn about a very essential ingredient, and that's called gratitude. I'm so grateful. I never go to bed ever, not one night of my life to say thank you. I like to go and

arrive at Augusta, for example. I like to walk through Magnolia Lane, which I don't do on every occasion, but I walked through there, this ambiance of this place, the great beauty. President Isisenland has been there, Bobby Jones, this wonderful, wonderful man, and Clifford Roberts, who and and I just say, I've won the three times, second, three times, top ten, fourteen times, most number of cuts, most number of times. How lucky am I I've come to say thank you?

Amongst these trees. One must never forget to be grateful for things, because when you think what's transpiring around the world today, and having traveled more miles and anybody that ever lived these eyes are mine have seen things that are so terrifying, good and bad. But it reminds you to say a little word called thank you. Very very important, but thank you very much. Quite honestly, I think the same about you. You've always smiling, you're always pleasant, You're

extremely well mannered. Thank you for being with us. You and I could speak forever on this that. Thank you very much. Indeed, I've really enjoyed being with you, my friend. Thanks Gary enjoyed it so much. Down the road. Don't forget to subscribe to the Player series on Apple, Spotify, for wherever you get your podcast