Charl Schwartzel

I wasn't surprised because you know, I know how well you hit the ball and how well you play, but that was quite a thing. And you know, tell us a little bit how you felt, you know, just joining the tour and winning the Masters. Yeah, I mean I think, um, you know, there was a lot more build up to that, you know, so you know, actually physically joining at two and two thousand and eleven, that was my East year.

But um, you know, with South Africa and the Sunshine Tour in European Tour, grooming us before we get I think it's played a big part, you know. Two thousand and two was my December two thousand and two was my very first European tournament. I was eighteen years old, and you know we are we we plaid our school fees going through SAfrica and Europe for many years. And

I used to come to America. I think my first tournament wasn't two thousand and seven Millfield, um, and I used to come and play the world events and the majors on and all. And then in two thousand and ten, I finished second to Ernie and Durral and I finished third in Houston and that actually got me enough money and points to have a full card on the on the US two and for two thousand and eleven. And you know, so it wasn't a strange thing for me to be in America, but that was just the first

time that I actually had my full privileges. And you know, two thousand and ten was my first Master finished three year and it's a it's a golf course that the first time I played it, I felt very comfortable on. So you know, come eleven, I just came off a win in South Africa, and I feed it off their confidence in it. Um. It's one thing that I I tell people, you know, they laugh at the smaller tournaments, but I say that I don't care if I win

the smallest tournament. It's it still takes almost the same amount of effort and concentration and determination then it does to do to make a big tournament. And you know, I've fed a lot of my job ag Open win

to win Augusta. That's right, and child, you know what really fascinates me share there's so many people say, well, you know, they pooh poo those tournaments outside of America, that they've suddenly realized how what it is to when I don't care what tournament it is, whether it's the Hong Kong Open that all the Asian players and overseas players here, you have to score lights out. It's been like that ever since I was a young boy. You have to really play extremely well, and to win is

another story. But what's fascinating coming up now with the Masters this year, with Musa Yama winning, which was so good for golf, they will probably make him the new president or Prime Minister of Jamand I said him, listen, if you are, please make sure Charlotte and I don't need a visa to go there. So he said he will arrange that. But the other thing that I wanted to ask you was, you know when you won. It was you were four strokes behind, if I remember correctly.

You had people like and Rory and Jason Day just to mention a few, but you were so focused and you were feeling so confident. And then the way you ended the tourment with I was sitting in front of the TV. They're jumping sky high where you were getting those birdies at the end. What a finish. Yeah, you know, it's something about that week. I was never I've never

felt under a lot of pressure. Um. I felt a sense of calmness for majority of the week, and I kept doing my own thing and I start to ah my routine and my um you know, I kept the same pace and everything felt really just in sync. Um. I was fallback. And for some reason that morning, that Sunday morning, I woke up and I said to my wife, I said, I'm gonna win, I said, and I said it with calmness. It wasn't like I said it to put pressure on myself. I just I felt this just

sense of almost knowing. It might sound arrogant, but that's just how it felt. And I was very happy with my game progressed because from the week before in Houston, I started on working on something just to hit like this sort of fade, small fade under pressure at three quarter fade shot And and as that we got on. I did it every day and it got better and better and better, and by Sunday I felt almost bulletproof.

And you know, I obviously a good T shirt down the first hole, but they needed four second shot and and like Gary will be able to recall that on that side to those flags. You can stand there all day. You know, you can go back this right, this right,

that's the better shot in your second shot. Hold, that's a better chip in, then your second shot holding it out from the fairway on the third yeah, exactly, yeah, because the third hold it feeds to the whole, you know, you eat it up the middle and the green and it sort of spins towards all. And they managed to go in. But that that chip shot on one was just uh. I've refused to go back then chip it

again because I know I'll just mess it up. When you were chipping, when you were chipping there, I said, I'll give him twenty shots. He won't get this stuff and down. And well I was right, you got it up and down. What av uh um you know, and then Rory just didn't get off to a good study but get the first and by time I held my second shot on three, we were all square. All the lead was gone, and I I just felt, um, I felt like, you know, you've got as good as chance

as anybody out there. That that's goloes to the lead. And Tiger obviously got up to unbelievable start. He was like five through eight holes and he was up on the board and at the back nine I think the lead changed and seven times, so eight times the lead on that back nine, and I kept playing really well. I just didn't do anything spectacular from that whole. My only three part for the week came on the fourth or eight at front left, the pin was back right.

There was a hundred foot part, and three parted on Sunday. Other than that, I kept hitting really good shots, giving myself a lot of opportunities, didn't make any um. And then you know, standing on the fifteenth tea box, I said to Greg McCarry, I said, Greg, we're gonna win this. This is the keyhole. I said, fifteen. If you do not birdie fifteen in this situation, you you're probably not

going to do it. And I hit driver six on and just I went over the back, and I think that's probably the you know, out of the four birdies that six ft made there was to me the the most important one, and it was probably the easiest part of them all. Was an inside right up the hill six ft. But at the time it felt hard because I knew I had to make it. Um. Yeah, and

then I kept hitting good. You know if the four birdies, you know, at the time, you just so in in the zone and you you're just trying to hit the

best shot on every shot. And you know, sixteen I had a great shot to both fit fed down to you know, about fifteen ft below um, and I'll never forget the crowd how loud it is down there when the part went in on sixteen and um and then seventeen to me was finally the shot that I've been practicing for so long, that little three quarter shot, because I hit it just off the on the right side of the fairway and the trees were slightly overhanging and I needed to I could get a pitch in which there,

but the trees were in the way. So I needed to hit that three quarter fade shot with a nine nine, and I just felt like that's what I was practicing for, and I hit a beautiful shot to eight foot. You know, it's just if you think, if I think back in it, how these things happen? You know, you you can't h you know, you've got to practice sort of with I don't know, with faith of something happening. You know, you

can't concert is going to happen. But at that time, if I look back for how long I practice that specific shot and that's shot on seventeen is not as easy as people think it is. You know, coming up that first cut, the ball normally comes with overspin, and if I headed over the green, my tournament's gone. You know, I don't think you up and down from over the green, not to that back flag. Um, And I hit it to eight foot and made that paton well, I M yeah. I mean hit the driver as lord as I can.

I was nervous there was the right shot to do for you at that stage. I mean Greg Norman came there one year and was driving the ball. He was a marvelous driver of a golf ball, the strongest part of his game. And he gets to the eighteens and he takes out an iron, if I'm not mistaken, leaves himself a long way back. Had he hit his driver, he would have been then bogey the hole, missing the green to the right to be taken his driver, he would have been right up there with a wedge and

maybe even birdie the hole in one. One of the things that the media and the public never ever seemed to digest, would you fall back? I mean, I won three torments in a row, starting at augusta seven behind all three weeks. Weren't you six back on the back nine? Pardon? Weren't you six pack playing the back nine? I shot yes, shot thirty, and then the next week got seven behind Ballesteros at the Torment of Champions and shot sixty five

and a wound'ty rainy day. In the next week I was six behind Andy Bean and shot sixty f one there. But my point is that people must understand it doesn't matter how many shots you behind, because when you've got to lead, the hardest thing to do in golf is to may retain that lead. People to have no idea. The whole eventually looks the size of a Bayer restaurant. You know, it's not easy to play with that kind

of pressure. So I think people are beginning to realize that now as we saw UH with you know, we watched the US Open this year, and you see how scores fluctuate all the time. It's always been like that in history Art Wall when the master's six shots behind. We've seen a lot of very interesting things to go. But I'm sure you'll agree. If there's a golf course in Heaven, we'd like it to be like August. We're not in a hurry to tee off. But I hope I'm the head pro there to prepare things for you

when you arlive there. But what I wanted to ask you, what are you working on? You're not playing in the Open Championship this year? This this this year? No, I'm not, you know I was. I've been injured, injured on and off for two years and UH world ranking went to town and fifty and I started playing injury free this year and I'm working my way back. I'm in the top hundred now and feeling like my game is probably

better than it's ever been. Um. But you know, just with COVID and stuff that the qualifying criterias have been a little different, so I didn't qualify. So I'm going to play this week in in Kentucky and I'll play the following week at the three M. But you know, to be honest, my since it's it's amazing the body. If if there's any any small problem that doesn't have to be something big, how it affects the way you

you swing the club and you your body reacts. And now that I don't have any pain, I've been working with my dad and David lead better. I'm getting a swing in the positions that I used to play and then, um, it's become sick of nature again. And I think it's because I'm a little stronger now than I used to. It's better. It's it's much more control than um, you know. And what I've realized is that now that i'm driving it better and and an iron place good, my my

wedge game has been weak. So you ask me what I'm working on is is from twenty yards and to sixty is being very obvious of driving and good and long and I've got a lot of these and I don't score. So that's that's what I've been working on. And it's getting a lot better and um, you know, and putting is always a thing that you'll work on for. Yeah. In fact, I was actually watching last week. I was watching something about but you when you were playing. You know.

The sad thing for me is I never saw you playing your prime, So I got to go back to all these videos and watch you play. And I remember playing with you about a month. See, I don't know two months ago. We played at Seminal and it was very obvious how still you kept when you when you parted still told today and then back in your videos back you know what I was on YouTube, Um, probably in the eighties and the seventies to two parts to

win tournaments. You didn't even look up, head stay down and the ball went in, and then you looked up and you almost like the crowd almost told you that the puts in. And it's sort of stuck with me. Um, you know, just as a golf lover and looking at guys h people that are do different things how you used to do it in the prime, And and and that's hard. People don't realize how difficult it is to stay still

because you're head. We're all so curious, that's right. And you look at Tiger, watch how his head, how still his head was his head was so so still, and so was Nick Felder. You know, it makes a massive difference if and it's a good exercise for patients, and that's what you need. And you're talking about a calmness. You've got to believe you're going to make the put, but you've got to also execute and have the right action. And if you move, you've got no chance. You watch

people that got the hips. They're jumping all over the place. They can't keep still. And it's terribly, terribly important. But I think the word that patients, and it comes back to the old story. You know, you look at the shambro he's hitting the ball these prodigious distances, but when he wins, he puts extremely well. And what wins golf tournaments, there's no question. What wins golf tournaments is the mind. This is something that you can never explain. Certain players

have got it. I can't tell you what it is. I know that Weiskoff was a better player than Jack Nicholas and he won one major Nicholas one eighteen. So there's a lot more just than the swing. It's the makeup of the person. It's the mind. And now I'm going to and it's being a great putter, because if you put well, you go into the next tea you feel like Tarzan. If your three put you feel like Mickey Mouse. That I'm not so I think the pudding, like you said, but it comes to from the mind.

So the pudding is the place, the last place that it shows up when a guy is in doubt. And the videos I was watching of you, and I was watching Jack and every or I was just went through all the older generation guys that I never saw play. You can see it in the guy's eyes. It was the same as Tiger when he was playing now obviously in his primary you can see it in the eyes.

That is the focus and the determination. And I you know, just from the stuff that I saw with you that um, every single time you want or played well, you can see there was almost no other option than succeeding. And I can relate to that. And for me, I feel guilty because I don't do it and I don't get in myself in that situation. Enough I done it myself. But when every time I've won and I put myself in a position, it was the mindset of I will succeed in that that's sort of mindset made him so

determined and fearly failure wasn't an option exactly. You know, charl I was called a nut when I spoke about weight training all my life. And now you see the guy's lifting weights. And I played with this guy called Taysom Hill who plays for the Saints the other day. I played at him in in Salt Lake City. Well he's he's squatting with five hundred pounds. He's lifting these weights, and you should see when he hit the ball too.

I mean, it is hard to believe that a man could hit the ball that far with a beautiful flowing swing. So I was criticized and condemned for lifting weights. And then I said, somebody of fifty will win the Masters or a major championship one day. Pul Micholson has done it. I'm now going to say one day there'll be a man of sixty when a major championship. I was criticized

when I said they'll be hitting the ball four hundred yards. Well, if you get a guy like uh, the big basketball player what's his name, Lebron James, if he come out and play, he might hit the ball five Andre Jarge. So we're in our infancy yet in this game to come. But if you look at something very significant and and and you know, tens of millions of people saw this, but I don't know how many digestive full Micholson comes out and he wins the p GA. He must have

lost I don't know, between twenty and forty pounds. His face looked young, and then he was really focused. You could see him how focused he was. And then you watched the Wimbledon, which I watched every single shot shot being in quarantine with Djokovic. Now here's a man that has done what very very few athletes have done, which I've been saying for years, exercise and diet. And here's a man now who was exercising. Look at his body,

not one pound of fat on his body. And secondly, the man eats differently to any other athlete that I know of most other athletes, and there it is under pressure, he was getting more energy. So eating and keeping your weight down and exercising is also going to be a massive thing in the future. Yeah, and I agree with you.

I am I've been fortunate also just to have exercise, you know, since I've started playing the game, and I can honestly say for sure, when I do my exercises, I feel better, I move better, more energy, you know. You Yeah, And I'm a big believer in you know, guys, there's a lot of guys at you and I might be scrutinized for us, but um, people that you've got to do specific things for golf, Yes, you do, but

I don't believe it. Just do something, yeah, yeah, anything, you know, if you do, because it gets some people despondent because some of the exercises are really hard to do. And you know, I'm the type of guy like if I just even if I get up now and go do five minutes and stuff, you do anything, it's better than nothing. You know, it definitely makes you feel better. Yeah, And there's no question. But it's very interesting to you with David. David I think is a very good teacher. Now,

I love his idea of teaching. He's very very good. So I think you're on the right line. And now to go out, And I was just like to say, you know, it, isn't it oneful to see South Africa, a small country relatively doing so extremely well with all our players and to see gay come along and win that tournament amazing and went two tourments in England and I spent a lot of time with him trying to help him mentally. And he's a very good listener. You know a lot of young people today are not very

good listeners. They think they know it all. When I was around Hogan and Sneed and people like that, man, I kept my ears open, although Massa was very despondent. One year I played with Sam Snead at Greenbrier and I tired with him in the tournament and I played the last thirty six holes with him. We went in a sudden death playoff and he beat me on the

forty three hole excuse me, the seventh hold mint. I played forty three holes of him and I was a young boy of twenty one, and I turned around and I said, Mr Snead, is there anything you can do to help me with my swing? He turned around said, I ain't seen you swing yet. Son. A different time live in you know, but you know, it's very It's great to see the South Everything guys doing so well, and it be let's hope another one could follow your

footsteps and within another major for South Africa. I think they're very sure yeah, that's gonna happen, yeah, I said, sincerely, Hope. So yeah, yeah for me. I before Garrick one, um the tournament, Uh yeah, yeah, I don't in Georgia. He uh. I said that he impressed me the most. He's the way he's demeanor, the way he plays the game, and exactly what Gary was saying. We played practice round with him at the p g A and he was one of the few guys that would come up and ask advice.

And you know, I was but with all the Swales that I was doing this trip, my own shots and they were all bouncing it into the bank and I said, yeah, I said, I prefer, you know, using like a four wine to run it up. And um. He was just very open to advice and listening and then obviously taking that and doing his thing. And I feel that's the if you're able to do that, that's a recipe for success. And he won a few weeks later. So my my money will be on Garrick being the next guy too,

you know, new guy too. When you know that Louis Louie is playing great golf, he seems to thrive in the major he really does. He plays well. I felt so sorry for him that he was open because he he was close, you know, that's the way he was leading. And I spoke to him a few times after that, and it hurts. You know. John Ron made two fantastic butts in seventeen and eighteen. Then he got pumped. Um Louis, Louis, Louis will be Louis will always be a contender. UM's

doing well. But I think for you guys, kind of Garrick. Garrick gets the ball a long way. He's he's sort of up with the modern game. You know, I hated, I hated still a good distance. I had a further than I used to. But Garrett comes up and it's as passed me, you know, and doesn't look like he's hitting it. It's a strong boys. I like. I like his game, and you know, there's nothing better. And that's why when I was around Hogan or Snead or any of those, those really superstars. And I don't use the

word superstar lightly. I think to be classified as a superstar, you've gotta win six majors. You talk about superstar, not a star. And I listened, and I listened to. I always asked those guys something and Hogan gave me some great tips which helped me to win all those eighteen majors on both tours. So what you do is when you do advice from somebody with experience, you say years years of trial and error that you can get immediately. There's no better way than to get success immediately than

to use experience. And yet so many people and young guys, And what fascinates me is so many of these young guys today they go two coaches. They can't play with the damn they can't break eighty. And you know, we saw with Tiger Woods, which was where the most fascinating things of my career and one of the saddest things because this man is definitely the most talented man that ever played golf. There's no question about that. He should

have won twenty five majors. At least he was winning one and a half a year, or maybe even two. I don't know the exact the number. But he wins the US Open by fifteen shots, not five fifteen. He then goes yeah, and now he changes he's swing and he doesn't want a major for eleven years, and then he somebody decides, no, I better go back to my own way. You know it's I'm a great believer their

categories of teachers like categories in business. If I'm getting with a lesson from somebody, I want to go along and play with somebody and have a lesson. Who could do it under pressure in a championship, particularly a major. And you know, nobody was better than Tiger Woods. Why had he not changed, he would have won twenty five majors at least. And I would love to have seen that because it boosts golf, and he was so great and to see where he came from, to see what

he was doing was most gratifying for me. And I just love to see him play with My wish should have been for you guys to have played against him, you and Jack and on it, because it's in the modern game. Like I just I love golf. I love the sport and I love the challenges that gives. And um, in my eyes, I feel I've underachieved a lot. But then I look at you guys that took all opportunity, most of the opportunities, and and you lost a lot. But but you you put yourself in a position to

win so many times that you did. Um, But I would love to have seen the young Gary players play against Tiger Woods, and you know, because Tiger when he was winning a lot and you could tell me if I'm wrong. River, It seemed like a lot of guys type videos used to keep the space because the other guys. You knew that guys are gonna fall away. Great and you guys, if I look at the back, you know again highlights and it's one of my regrets. And never been able to see you guys play in a prime.

But very few times you guys won. Somebody gave it to you went and you got it. You mean shooting thirty on the at the Master's at Augusta on the back nine on Sunday. We didn't see that anymore. Last time we saw it was when I think Nicholson be to any in Um for the for his first one. You know, it doesn't I made the four birdies. But you very seldom see someone in a major, and I think we used to see it more in your time. Somebody come from behind and and do that five and

six and back nine. Yeah, that's sort of superstars. You know, like today there's there's great players and maybe technology has broad guys a little closer together. And maybe I don't know you can argue that point, but but it seemed like back then you just look at their faces, the determination that happened. It can't tell me they were They didn't feel the pressure that the guy feels today at the same pressure, yet it's almost like they wanted it more.

That's right, that's right. And also, you know, when you think when we played, we played with hundreds of spike marks on the green because of steel spikes. The bunkers didn't have machines to break each bunk of the same in Johannesburg as in New York, and we didn't have bits to take us. I offer went by a Grayhound bus.

I remember game bus from Fort Worth to Houston. So I would love to have had the opportunity of playing against Tiger with the same conditions and not and not under the conditions we played under because we were not scared of people. We didn't buckle under and get scared to play against anybody because we came up in a very hard way of having to play. Look at Trevino, I mean, is nobody playing the tour today today that can hit the ball from Teacher Green like Trevino did.

I mean, this guy was so good. He never missed fairways in greens. He was absolutely unbelievable at striking the ball. From teaching and forgiving technology, Yes, that's this is the big issue. It's such a the ball goes fifty yards further now. I'm e T five now and still shooting par If I had to go back to my old equipment, I will, I tell you either, I wouldn't break Eddie. So but anyway, that's that's great that that the technology has improved. It's great that they're playing for more prize

money and they got Jis. I think it's wonderful. It's absolutely terrific to see that. And Charlott's so nice to talk to you. I enjoyed it very much. You've always been one of my favorites. And I hope you played very well. Uh and you come back and play full time all the time. Yeah, Thanks Eric, all the best to you too. Don't forget to subscribe to the Player series on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast