Brad Faxon

determine the best is the record book. And when I look at your list, and I'd like you to tell me, you know, just going over your list, what may you decide on these guys, is your ten best patterns? And then I'm going to have my answer to you. So the list of anybody's top ten list, whether it's the best putters, like I showed the best players of all time, Gary, that the best golf courses that you your favorite courses, if you make this list, there's a subjective this to

this right, everybody has their opinions. But I think for me, there were a few things that I want to identify. First of all, I made a mistake early by not saying this is for p g A tour players. I upset some of the ladies, and I didn't mean to do that. I'm not an expert on women's professional golf, but I know that they were very very uh grit. Some great uh LPGA players are great putters. But for the p g A Tour players, I wanted to say, putting for importance is really one of the things on

the list. How many times did you win in a whole put under pressure? And like you said about greatness or superstar winning six majors if you if you were a great putter, like someone like Morris Atowski, who won several times on the PGA Tour, was noted to be a great putter. He didn't win major championships. So I wanted to have major champions in there. I wanted to

have players that weren't just young. I mean, there were people that were pauled that I didn't have Jordan's speech or um, let's say Jason Day on there, and I said, listen, um, I want them to prove over the test of time. There has to be some longevity to this. And there were a lot of players that put it good for just a few years. Fuzzy Zella, but he didn't put great for a long time. Um, that's why this list

is hard to do. And and then I had some preferences for players that I thought just really looked good doing it. And after putting Tiger Woods first, I had Ben Crenshaw and Sevy by Steros arguably two of the best putters in history that did it for a long time. But they just looked very good as they did it well. Very good point. And uh, it's fascinating and to debate on this particular subject is interesting for the people. And you know, you've got to remember longevity, longevity in sport,

irrespective what sport it is. How are you judge great players, how you judge great pat does in sport? Longevity has an awful lot to do that many people, as you correctly said, they come along and they put well for a few years, and then you don't hear them again. Now, you were very humble in your list, which obviously I admire you for your your personality and your your the fact that you're a humble, wonderful gentleman, and I've always admired you. Nobody put it much better than you did.

How you remain so tall, I don't know you were bending down so much. I thought you'd be five ft three, but anyway, you hold so many many pats that and Jack Nicholas look at the puts he hold too. When you know, if people forget he were not only in eighteen majors, were second nineteen times. You know you've got to be some kind of a pudder to do that. Arn O Parmer he had a very short career, the only one majors for six years. But in those six years, let me tell you he charged every poddy, had never

left a pat sort ever. He hold more five footas than anybody that ever lived coming back amazing. So uh. And doug Ford people, most golfer has never heard of. Doug Ford. He won the PGA and the Masters at a jab stroke. Casper jab I listened on that one of the networks about a player missing a putty, said, oh he jabbed it. Well, three of the three of the ten best padders all jabbed the ball. They never followed through at all. So it's not the stroke, it's

the field. It's the eye. It has that that little feeling of how to put. It's a gift. It's a gift you had it. So let's talk about that that field or that you know, you call it a jab stroke. Um. Today some players make call that a pop stroke, like the brand Snedecker. But on on the list of the top ten players that I chose, um, and if maybe if we went even too the top twenty all time players, there was only one of those players, and Raymond Floyd would have been that one that used to maw putter.

He used his zebra putter for a long time, and there weren't many mallet putters. You used to blade, Crenshaw used to blade. Even now they call the ping putters blades. Um. In today's world, if you look at the top twenty five world ranking players, seventeen or eighteen of those players are using mallet putters. But the putting statistics. Have you looked at the stats since the last twenty years since

shot linked data, putting stats really haven't gotten better. You know, you mentioned how the greens are in such a good shape now they're like the pool table or a snooker table. Why don't you think the the stats have gotten better now? Does it have something to do with pin places being

on more slope. Well, that's a very debatable issue. Um, I don't think personally, I don't think that the putters today, other than Jordan's speech, I don't think they put it as well as uh as Tiger Woods has been crunch yours Balastro, says Bobby lack. Uh all these guys, I don't think these guys today actually they hit the ball much further. They can hit the ball in the rough and still score. I think their grooves on the clubs.

I think the bunkers are all raked with a machine, whether it's some back too or I mean, we we played, we never had rakes. We raked with our feet. I went to this vicretary of the British Open and said, I love the British Open. Please, sir, can I donate eighteen rates to this uh the British Open. He kicked me out of his office. He said I was being insolent because I said, in America they have rights. So you know, you can't really say, I mean Tiger Woods

is putting stood out. There's no question Tiger Woods should have won. I think, as I'm being repetitive now, you should have won at least twenty five majors, at least twenty five. There's no question that Tiger, which is the most talented golfer that ever lived. Will his record be that good? I I didn't know. Will he Will he come back and win torments? I hope. So we're all pulling for Tiger Wood. But what do you think, I mean, why do you think tiger Why do you think he

petted so well? I think there's you talk about it factor. I think on the putting green, there's something called the will factor. UM. And I learned a lot from players that were much better than me and more experienced. When I first got out on the tour, I tried to play with some of the best putters. And one of the guys we haven't talked about that how to have watched you growing up, was Mark McNulty, who I played

a lot with when I first turned professional. I knew a lot of the South Africa's in the Rhodesians because they worked with David Ledbetter back in the early eighties when he was teaching Nick Price. UM. I got to know Dennis Watson and Gavin Levinson and McNulty. And McNulty

had an old bull's eye. He had an interesting grip where he had both his index fingers down the shaft and kind of closed the face back and through But he was one of the best putters I've ever seen on bad green and when the Greens got worse, he got better. And that doesn't make sense, doesn't But but being great doesn't make sense either, because you can't think normally.

You have to think super realistically. And I think players that played well putted well one majors, that traveled the world like you did, they had something inside whether they're born with it, learned and accumulated that over time. To me, that's the most fascinating part about this game. Some of

it's explainable, some of it's just not. And we we've all watched Tiger, haven't we, And and in the in the in the years when he was winning his major championships, it seemed like every week he was in contention every put that he had to make. Like watching Jack or like watching you, you knew the importance of them, but you somehow could gather yourself together and make those puts. And that's that's what you call the in factor. I call the will. That's what McNulty had when the Greens

got worse. And how do we put those things together for a long period of times? What really intrigues me, Yeah, and the question you asked me, why why the status are not better to day in spite of a debatedly debatedly are better or though Bobby Jones and a lot of guys padded with a blade patter, a little old thin blade pattern and padded extremely well. But golf, you know, I basically study genetics every day of my life, and

golf is very similar to genetics. You know a hell of a lot about nothing that's right, that's what it's ready. Golf is the most contradictory sport that exists. The swing takes let's say one second, and they've probably been over four million words written about that swing. It's you can't comprehend, can you? No, you can't, you can't all I know what you said, you can't. You can't an eyes that you cannot describe it. But there's certain basic fundamentals and

I still think I know. I mean, I played, I played with people like Tommy Armore, I mean before your father was born even and also we played. I played with Gens Derrison, wonderful golfers, wonderful golfers, and they they were doing things, and they had a swing that was absolutely marvelous. When you talk about uh, you know the swings? What are the legends do the greatest players of all time? I know, you know a friend of mine named Lucas Waald,

he's a great instructor. He carried for you in Houston one year and he's he's studied the swing as much as anybody, and he ironically did the top ten all time great swings which you were on. Um. And it was amazing how many of those top ten players swings and how they were as potters too. Um. But I think we have to learn from the greats and how did they think? How did they feel? And the more I learn, and Gary, um as I've becoming, you know, known as it maybe a golfing putting instructor. Um. The

more I learned, the less I know. Really, but um, I'm fascinated that more and more this is less about what the putter does, going back and through about more that is about how you prepare, how you think, how you practice, and I think how you practice even to go warm up to go play is different than what you would practice on a week off. I think I see one of the mistakes I see some man of the modern day players is they're always using some kind

of a device to measure everything they do. And to me, I think it's okay for a little bit, but they start losing their feel their own fields. What do you feel about that? Now you're a correct and one of the things. But look, I always admire the young players today as I've admired the young of the players of the post. But one thing they've to stop. Bread, is this a piece of paper and looking at a book where to put? Now? Goodness, bread, you know they're not

better patters than existed in the past at all. In fact, they might not be as good as the past. Nobody ever read a book where to put? If I don't play exhibitions. I played an exhibition for Chick fil A yesterday in in a Georgia. I played, of course I've never seen in my life. I never misread one, but I might not hit it there. But honest the goodness, if you can't read a green after two or three days of practice on the golf course, you've got a

serious problem. You better take stock of yourself. Sure, you still got to use your your gift of talent. You've got to use your eyes, you've got to use your feel. You can take a long put of forty ft. You can put long pat cross handed any way you like. It's still the field that knocks the ball that close. It's not that stroke. It's the field and the eye coordination that you cannot describe. You know, I throw a ball to you, one guy go and I throw it

quickly at you. Another guy goes, another guy just like this. You know, he doesn't how to catch it. A lady gets in a car, or some of your man gets in a car and they're driving and they can't prevent the car accident if they had good reflexes. They don't. There's so many things about this game that we really don't know, but I will say one thing, having spent time with Ben Hogan, who was, without a question, the greatest striker of a ball from Tito Green, you had

to see it to believe it. They basically did when they were swinging the club. Now we're off the putting, they basically did. They did two movements, or they did one movement, one movement in the swing that everybody else did, and that was a movement that you had to do. Now you can make the different movements. You can be trying something that Ben Hogan told you and told me, and we do it and we look completely differ it. That's why the game is so confusing. And there's so

many hidden factors in this game. And we must never there's that we are ever saying in business. And if young there're two saints. And if young people starting out would listen to this trust instinct to the end though it rendered no reason. And the other thing is Winston church and I have a lot of young guys coming to me and say, how do I become a champion? I don't know? How do I become a good putter?

I don't know? And Winston Churchill said something which puts it in a nutshell, the greatest saying of my life. And Winston Churchill was the greatest leader that ever lived when you think what he went through, and the courage and the command of the English language, etcetera, and the sense of humor. But he said to people, and they asked him why he was successful, he said, you know the height that great men reached and kept a lot of players play well, but they don't keep it for

very long. We're not attained by in flight. He says that when my opponents were sleeping, I was toiling upward in the night. And that's what you gotta do. You've got to outwork him. And that's what Hogan did, and that's what all the top players I ever saw, they were workers. Look at Tiger woods Man right forever. This guy's got to focus like I've never seen engulf this guy. He was in another world. I'd love to respond to that. First of all, Winston Churchill has a book that I

just started reading called The Splendid in the Vial. It just came out, and he's intriguing to no end. But when when we go when we talk about putting greatness, longevity, is it learned? Is it born? Can you accumulate it as you get older? Um? I think one of the things I'm the most proud about my putting stats were as I got older, my putting statistics got better, So I lead the putting stats and in the nineties and

early two thousands when I was forty years old. So when people say, oh, you were lucky, you were born a good putter, it's really an insult because I spent hours and hours and hours on a practice putting green from the time I was, you know, really serious about the game. A twelve thirteen years old, I didn't ever want to get off the green. I put it in my room at night. I never left my clubs at the course. I always brought them back to my room. I always had a club even now. You know, I

got my putter right here. Most of the time when I have a conversation with somebody, putters in my hand. I'm feeling the grip. I sense it in my fingers, in my hands. I don't like to put it down. I love this part of the game. And and to me, if if I had to pass something on, you better love this part of the game. And uh, if you want to be good for a long time, as people think, oh it's unfair, the ball can lip out, it's only

four and a quarter inches. And then people would have been they would say, well, if you just made the whole bigger, it would make it easier for everybody. Do you a match A money puts you at hold? If the ball, the ball, the whole the cup was twice as big, he would have made way more than everybody else. Um so that doesn't make sense to me, because everybody

else with a hold boy as will. But but all the great putters would have been better if the whole is bigger that that argument doesn't make sense to me. But I think that you know, I left myself off that list Gary because I didn't want to make it sound about me. And I know any list is controversial, but you know, I've been helping Rory McElroy and was putting for the last three years. He's one of those talented players out there. It's one four major championships. He's

just turned thirty two. Um, and he won last week at Wells Fargo by having some of the greatest putting numbers of his career. And I put him tenth on my list. And did I put him tempt because? Um? I wanted to create a little bit of a stirry. Yes, because I helped him. Yes. Did he see the list, yes? Did he put better? Yes? Did he win? Yes? So is that coaching too? Is that given some confidence? Maybe? Um? Do you think about it? I don't know, but I've seen him part when he's not at a tournament, and

I'm like, this guy is pretty gifted. He's only thirty two, which seems to be I mean, how much how is your career pre thirty two and post thirty two for championships? Yourself but I was very I was different. I won the British Open or the Open when I was twenty three. I was the youngest to win it at the stage. And I had already completed the Grand Slam when I was twenty nine. And if I may digress for a minute, I said to my wife, nobody will ever beat that.

Nicholas came along and did it at twenty six. Now listen to this. And I went focused to listen to this. The greatest sporting achievement in the history of sport, any sport, you like, man, woman, whoever it may be. Tiger Woods winning the Grand Slam at twenty four. I mean, that's not on, that's not on. But you know it. This is this is the wonderful thing talking to you because, uh, the experience and the how things different, how people's minds work, and how they go about it. And I would never

have put Rory. I mean, I am Rory McElroy's biggest fan. I know Rory McElroy and I've said it every year and he hasn't done it yet. Will win the Grand Slab because he has the best golf swing on the tour bar none, There's no question. And but I have not. I thought if he had a weakness, if he had a weakness, it was he's putting. Now he's won four majors, so you can still get better. It doesn't matter how

good you are. And I'm so pleased that he is having lessons with you because you, first of all can impart to him the knowledge that is important. And I was so happy to see him win and he will go on and win a lot of golf torments in the future. Will you take somebody like Rory McElroy and you teach him to put You know, what have you?

What have you basically um to improve his putting? Whether it's mental of course, you know the big thing you and you would agree with me, and I'll answer that a little bit before you do you when you play golf, if you don't believe in yourself and honestly, bred I can tell you, sincerely, without boasting, when I played against nick Jack Nicholas, I never felt he would ever beat me.

When I got on the first tear of the World match play in England, thirty six holes two years in a row, long off of course, I've been in six and four, five and four, and everybody said I have no chance, you've got to believe and Jack Nicholas did that and Tiger Woods did that. To do anything, well, you have to start off believing yourself that you can do it. And obviously, with Rory winning four majors and with the talent that he has, if he does, he

definitely believes in himself. And I mean you only go to look at Jordan's feet. I mean, this guy is a phenomenal pattern not good phenomenal. He's the best in the world right now as time being repetitive from a hundred yards in and the patting the Open championship he won at was it toy like no know at birtdo bick out he I've never seen a tourment one like that in my life and I never will look again.

It was just wonderful to see because it doesn't matter if you drive the green or you hold a long pat. It's just school. It matters. But now I want to hear what basically you did to get Drury to to pet better in this last tournament. Well, it's it's a there's a it's a great question. And first of all, I was just honored that he would even asked me

to even think that I could help him. And three years ago, in March and two thousand and eighteen, UM he asked me to watch him hit some puts before he went up to play at Arnold Palmer's tournament at Bayhood. So I I was nervous. I had watched some videos of a stroke, but I felt like, here's a guy that's he had one fifteen times already on the PGA to read one four majors. I know he's gifted, he's talented. His putting stats have been poor for three years in

a row. He was working with a different putting instructor when he called me, uh, and I just I feel like, for someone in that caliber, I've got to let the talent that he has come out right. He obviously has that he eat one Kiwa at the p GA by what how many shots? Leaven shots or tenn shots? He dusted the field and he did that by incredible driving, incredible putting. So how do you get that out of

a person. And I'm learning that more and more every time I teach anywhere, whether it's at beginner golfer, one of the best of the world. So for Rory, one of my philosophies are thoughts in putting is that when you get too many lessons and too many thoughts and players look like they I say, it looks like they're reading an instruction manual on how to do it while they're over and everything looks slow, everything looks piece feel together. That doesn't look like there's any kind of continue. It

was motion. And I always thought the players that were good didn't stay still for too long over the putt, and I thought with Rory that that's what I saw immediately. Um and we we actually hit some puts with different clubs besides the putter. We hit puts with a sand wed without. He took a five without. Gary was amazing. At the Bars Club where you practice a lot with, Jack built a fantastic practice facility. Greens. There were thirteen

or fourteen on the stimpmeter. The wind was blowing, and I made Rory hit three fifteen foot puts with the five would He had never done this before. He was putting this five wood in the bag to go play at Augusta like Gray Floyd did when he won. And and Rory putted these three balls, made all three of them. You could see leaves blown because the wind was blowing

so hard. And it was kind of at that point that I think I gained a little bit of his trust that this is something he needed to go back and and I'd be interested to hear what you think, because I think he he had lost his instincts, he had lost his freedom to his putting. And and look, I go in and maybe differently than the average putting

instructor or a golf swing teacher. Most of the time players now go to get somebody to look at them when they're not playing well, not hitting it well, not putting well, and they always try to find what's wrong. I do the opposite. Either try to find what's right. What do they do well? First? What do they think about when they're putting their best? How do they think um and how do they feel? And then how do

you get those fields to come out to them? That's that's where I start, because I think if I can get their comfort level back, then their stroke and their mechanics improved without even telling them to do anything. And that's that's kind of this. If there's a secret sauce, that's one of the things that I feel like I'm trying to do every time I see the player. Yeah, makes such sense. That's you see, but you see, you've been in the arena. That's the big thing. If I

was a young pro having a lesson. Now, I think their category is like everything in life. I love the club pros. They help their members and they are tremendous for golf and they do so much which we all appreciate. And then you have another category where a man can teach a young amateur at a club and do well. And then you get now, this is where we've got to be careful. Then you get another category where not many people can teach a touring pro. Look what happened.

I mean, the best example I can give of this, Tiger Woods wins the US Open by fifteen shots, not five fifteen I heard of the next week. Basically, he's having a lesson because he was ambitious, he wanted he thought he could get better. I don't think he could have got a better If he came to me for a lesson, I would have said go home. I don't want to say a single word because I can only lose. I can only make you wish, I cannot make you better. Out of the fact that he believed he could climb

Mount Everest. Well, that was to his detriment. If he never had a lesson Bred I'm telling you that, man, I know, he would have won twenty five majors, maybe thirty. There's not even a question about it. He was winning one and a half a year anyway, and he never went a major for eleven years. Now people can say his injuries Tiger Woods. With Tiger Woods, he was so focused and so good. He didn't worry about injuries. He he had a mind to overcome that injury. What injury?

He won the US Open basically on one leg down in California, didn't he? And you know, you know what it is, Brad. I mean, we all played Thomas. We didn't worry about that injury. Man. We wanted to win the tournament. You're going in the battlefield. You can't tell a soldier you've got a sore leg. Well, we're in the battlefield. Not to the same comparison as a soldier, but in our life that battlefield is essential and you're

gonna win at all costs. And so if you're gonna wait, Gary, if a player is gonna wait until everything feels perfect, where their body feels perfect, well every part of the game feels perfect, you're you're in for a long wait.

And when Tiger he was warning the world back in when he came on the tour, he won two tournaments in the Falling beat Davis Loving the playoff at Las Vegas, and then he won the Masters by fifteen shots a year old, right, Um, he maybe just twenty two, but he he said, I was he was winning without his a game. And if you're gonna wait till every part of your game was perfect, you were in for a

long time. But let me go one more thing on Rory. Um. I spent a lot of time working with the sports psychologist you would do a named Bob Rotella, who helped a lot of players. And Rotella had some great quotes from some great players, and one of my favorites was from Mark Twain that was, the inability to forget is infinitely more devastating than the inability to remember. Let me say that again, the inability to forget is infinitely more

devastating than the inability to remember. And one of the things with Rory when he when he went to Bay Hill after we spend that time um at the Bears Club, he went that night up there and he I said, look, I just want you on every day, I want you to write down or think about the feel of a great put that you hit that day. And it doesn't even have to have gone in, because everybody's hit beautiful puts that don't go in, and how you respond to

those is really important, right you. You know, if you're in a good mood and you're playing great and you hit a good put that doesn't go in, you go, I'm gonna make the next one. If you're not in a good mood, if your mindsets and around place, you go there I am I'm screwed again. So is that attitude is something you can share with other people? And I think that's what greats over a long period of time where able to do. Because you missed a lot

more puts than you make, didn't you? No, exactly, No, If anybody wants to have lessons, I'm putting they're going to come to you. So double your fee because you really you've been in the arena and that is so important. You know, you said something. But there again, there is a contradiction that you found people kept moving when they're over the Pats subway or other. Whether it's your eye, your hands, whatever it was, but Jack Nicholas was like a mummy when he got over the ball. He stood

there and freezed. He was freezing, and yet he put it so well. So they're always contradictions to this game. And that's what people must realize. What works for Joe doesn't work for Mode. And and you also mentioned how you're putting has got better. Now I'm eighty five and I've beaten my age over three thousand times in a row. Yeah, but I want to be the first man to beat my age by eighteen shots. But to do that, I've

done it sixteen times, three times. But to do at eight time, you've got a put well, And I find at eight five the one part of my game that is nothing like it used to be. I mean, I still hit every fairway and still play nicely, but the putting is good, it's not very good. So the putting you are an exception. Why does everybody who plays God think about this? Eventually? Arnold Palmer, Lead, now Sam Snead, all these guys, Ben Hogan, the whole lot all got

the yips, every one of them got the hips. You know why, because the nerves we're out, nothing lost forever. Now you are. This is a good comparison. You hold you now, I'll be sixty and honest, okay you're sixty, so your putting is better now, you say, but I don't know if I say that, well, it says good. But now how would you How would you be? Now if you came down a Gusta with a British Open with how was to go and you were leading? Good? Do you think your petting would be? I'm alas can

you do that? Only you know? Well? I have very I still have a lot of confidence in my putting. Gary, if I was leading the British Open by four shots like Tom Watson was when he was fifty nine with you when he was leading, Um, people would be surprised at me because I didn't hit it from A to B as well as most, but I could still get uh the pots. Hold and look, I made some very good pots in my career. I made some of the

Ryder Cup, I missed some of the Ryder Cup. I didn't make them to win a major, but um, I tried to pass on those experiences to everyone. I kind of look when you said that about Jack Nicholas, and I played with Jack a few times, really not in his prime but he did say to me he would stand over that ball until he felt more comfortable. And now it looks there's almost exceptions to every rule. Right now,

Jack could do that. I wouldn't recommend teaching that. But if some good player said I really put better when I stand over it longer, and when I'm over in my crouch, that's I have to stay there until I see behind, I wouldn't object to that. But Gary and my experience, I've yet to have a man or woman younger, old, good, or great come to me and say, uh, I need to think about more, I need to take longer, I

need to try harder. Uh. They always say things like I put better in practice, I put better in pro ams, I put better with my friends that I do in tournaments. I don't have players come back and say to me, I think I'll put better if I think about ten things. I think I'll put better if I take longer. I don't have players say that. So if they did do that like Jack did, I would be all for that, because to me, when you want to help someone get better,

you want to create a good pre shot routine. And that pre shot routine is not just physical, it's mental. And how you go about thinking that should help you to hit a better pot or a better shot. And when we define confidence, and again another thing from Rotel and competent golfer is somebody that knows where that golf ball is going to go before they make their swing. They know they're gonna make that pot before they hit that pot. And that's what you're trying to do is

help somebody get in that mindset more often. So we come back to what we said at the beginning of the show. What wins golf toms is the mind, yes, and some people are blessed to have that thing called it. And the other thing is putting you walk off the green and your three part and a vital moment in the torment, you feel a little low and you hold.

You hit your drive in the rough the next hole, and you hit the next well in the bunker, and you put it and you blade it across the green and you hold the pot for a pa you walk off the green lock you've made an eagle. So the mind is always fluctuating, and that's what you've got to prevent. You've got to keep that mind positive all the time, irrespective getting a bad shot is part of the guy him.

That's what people when I see young guys getting upset when their miss a short part, they stand there and look at it. Nobody's interested in that, miss it, and get the hell out of there. I think it's always the word I always said to myself. The next shot, the next one, forget that there's nothing you can do about it. You've got to realize there's nothing you can do the next one. Go about it with a prositive attitude,

is what you would say. But I'll tell you one thing I would do if I was a man, start our youngster playing golf today. I'd start putting cross handed. And the other thing I would do, remember the genes of everybody, Like a fingerprint is different. Seven billion people have seven different fingerprints. Don't when a person, and my advice to a teacher teaching a young guy come along, don't alter his genes. Don't alter which is a natural thing for him to do for another movement in the string.

What once you do that he's finished, You've got to add to what he's doing and build onto what he's doing. Don't change his natural kenness. The other wife he's gone. I love that, Gary, I would say One of the highlights of my life and career was when you came up to play our CBS charity Classic UM in Rhode Island where I grew up at Rhode Island Country. But what I learned to put and we got paired the first round with Arnold and Billy Andre, my co host,

and I putted unbelievable that first round. I don't know what I would have shot on my old ball, but you made a bunch of punch of Bernie the first hole. And then when we got to the final hold of thirty six hole elevated green, you hit that iron shot in there to about fifteen feet and you had to make this tie Nick Price and I think Mark Calcibeccio, and there was a big crowd on that green, And when I watched you, I felt like I went back

in time. I felt like this was a puppet you knew you were going to make before you made it. I don't know if you remember it like I do, but you got very well. You made that thing right in the center of the cup. You made the greatest fist pump and hands raised. And that was Gary player that I watched on TV growing up for so so many years, and I think when you when you have it, like you talked about, it's hard for it to go away.

Sometimes I would say, if you went and looked down the list I made or the list that you made, and all those players are in some sort of hall of fame, what we have traditionally called fundamentals in the game of golphin and putting, you know we would have been grip, stance, posture, alignment um. Every single player in that hall of fame looks different over the putter, right. They used a different putter, a different way to grip.

They Some stood tall, some crouched down like jack Um, Some had their hands close to their legs like you did, like Bobby lock did. Some were more h technically like Tiger Jason day Um. Other players had different grips like doing with speed across handed. I don't know if I would say any of those tradition of fundamentals are what we would say are applicable that have to do. But I do think that the best players they did two things. They generally not always hit the ball in the center

of the putter. They hit the sweet spot, and they had an incredible ability to put what they saw the read of the green into motion with the ball. They could see the path of the arc the ball is going to take, um and look, is that something that you can teach or is that something you have to learn organically by just getting so many puts? Um, you know, and that would be my one thing. Players had good ability to read feel, so they could determined break in

speed together. I don't believe that one is just more important than any other. They hit the center of the face most of the time, and then that that to me, would be one thing in common with everybody. Um. The second part fifth, I remember Ray Floyd saying one time that you have to get comfortable over the ball. Now, if you just told an average golfer to get comfortable, that's not necessarily going to make them in a position that allows the partner to swing the way it should.

So UM, I would teach totally different to a beginner golfer than I would to somebody that's played for years and years. I wouldn't say to you, Gary, you need to stand up, caroller and move your arms away from your body if you've never done that in your life and you've won nine major championships and I'm not doing that. But if you're the inner golfer and you have no way you know everybody when you may containing to go and they that doesn't feel comfortable. Well, sometimes things can't

feel comfortable if you've never done it correctly. So um, I would say for average golfers, they need to get a lesson. You can see so much on TV now on YouTube, you know on what players did. There's almost too much instruction out there a matter of fact. But I think the way I would go about teaching champions offered the first at beginner offers. Bobby Locke said something to me that I've never heard mentioned ever, and that is when you put you ought to have the four

to one rule. Now here's your cup. If you put the board comes at the right speed, it can go in on the right side, it could go on the back side, it can go in on the left side, or it can come in in the front of the cup. Four chances if you hit it hard. You've only got one chance. And that was a magnificent And I've never heard anybody said, you give yourself and if you can get four to one, go to Vegas on anything that's good odds so and the other thing is you've got

to visualize. As you said, you've got to be able to read the green world. Man, that Tiger would read a green world good without a book. He read all the great part as I've seen, were great readers of the mean. And you've got to visualize right speed and the right the right curve of the ball. You gotta think you're gonna make it the most good pedest Still, I've never seen anybody but Well moving all over the place when they putting. And the other thing, you've got

to accelerate. You cannot hold no shot. Can you play well? Decelerate. If I was a weekend golf and went out to tomorrow, I'm going to accelerate my driving. I'm going to accelerate out of the sand. I'm going to accelerate with my petter. Acceleration is imperative. All those things are great advice and coming from one of the greatest players I've ever lived, Gary, I love that four to one about Bobby lock and one of them beautiful, and then another thing about Bobby Locks.

He started the um the conversation talking about him being the greatest player on your list. I know that he

spent some time in Vermont. He did spend some time with Bob Rotella, and he was very Ben Hogan was very friendly with an LPGA player named Chris Cheddar who lived in Fort Worth, and he would often practice and watch Cris at balls, and Chris asked Bob Rotella to come have lunch with Ben Hogan and and Rotell a new Bobby Luck, and Rotella heard from Bobby that he had said that Ben Hogan was the best putter he

ever saw. Bobby Lock said that about Ben Hogan. And when Bob Rotella told that to Hogan at that lunch, this would have been in the eighties, Ben was much older and lived a few years after. But Rotella told Ben Bobby Luck said, you're the greatest potter you've ever seen. Then Hogan actually got cheery eyed at that lunch. Bob said, so Hogan had to be pretty good. I have played golf now as professional for just on seventy years plus minus whatever the number is, and we got a site

to ourselves festiv all. What conditions did we play under? I mean, you know, you know, we played golf, and I put Bobby Lock as the best pudder that ever lived. For assist or reason that I played a lot with him and I saw it with my own eyes. A lot of people in America and never ever saw Bobby lock and he won four British Opens. He came over here and won seven out of the first eleven tournaments,

and they bared him. They barred him from playing. Nobody knows that because in those days they could do that kind of thing. Because he was winning with every almost every week, they bought him. So the thing is this that he played on greens where they didn't have mowers like now. The greens were not even half as good as now. We as you know, we played with spike marks in our entire career. Two spike marks on every green.

You didn't have a mower that could zoom across the green that you know, ten miles an hour and cut the green like a snooker table. Actually, the greens that played today are equivalent to a snooker table. We never saw that once in our life. So that's another thing that we've got to think about. The Other thing is they even put the pins in the same place every day. Now, you tell a young guy a few things that actually transpired when we played. They never changed the cups one day.

Bobby Jones playing under those conditions. Bobby locked it in my first start of my career. They didn't change the cups. So you know now, and you've got a cup that you putting too for four straight days. That cup ain't round anymore. It's it's been, it's it's risen. So they keep the ball out of the hole, isn't allowed to go in. Yeah, So that's to me, is fascinating. But Bobby Luck, he put it under the most wicked conditions and I'm telling you something has been Hogan said, He said,

you had to see it to believe it. Sam Snead played Bobby Lock in South Africa twenty two matches Bobby Lock one eighteen. They tied to and Snead and his prime one two and Sneak came back and said, listen, guys, you've bet a bet. You've bet a bet. There's bit this guy, Bobby Lock. You bet a bit him and the Torments and a lot of guys and Clayton Heffner bought a farm in Charlotte, not a farm, excuse me, a golf course, in fact, thirty six holes backing Lock

against Hogan. Sneed the merit Mangram. All the great players that existed in those days, and not a lot of young players today. They don't realize how many great players they were in those days. But be that asn't made. You had to actually be around Lock to see how he putted. And I give him the nod because if he put it on greens like this, I don't know what we would have seen. But on the other hand,

Tiger woods, it's hard. Actually we have to give Lock and Tiger tie because Tiger hole amazing puts on the last green. Now you know, Brad, if you hold a put on the second hole or you hold a put on the lost hole, it counts the same, except people, people, millions of people are seeing you do it on the lost hole. And Tiger was a king at doing that. And I admired his part. Uh, it's interesting to see that you never put Jordan's speed in and you mentioned

Jordan's speek. Now, Jordan's speech to me in the world today, There's no question about it. Jordan's speak from a hundred yards in is the best player in the world, without a question. He's long game. I think, in my my humble opinion, he has four faults in his swing, and when he finds those out, he he if Jordan's Spee could find what's wrong with his swing, he would be number one in the world because he holds three chip shots at August on those greens. Jordan's Spee, I love him.

He's a great American. People love him. He looks after his family. I just adore that. And but watch out when he finds out, when he finds out how to swing that golf club, the guy is gonna have to watch out. And I'm sure he will find out, and then he's He's like that in factor. And of all the players playing golf today, Jordan of speed has deep its defector. Now are you keen on the cross handed putting? Interestingly, I when I first got on a tour, there was

a putting instructor named Dave Pell's. Pell's helped Tom kite Um. He had done some studies that showed that cross handed was an easier way to put for for players than I am. I'm very right handed with everything that I do, and when I when I put, I feel like I used my right side. So I feel like the left for cross handing for me would take the right side out and it would be more of a pulling action. But you know, We've seen what Bryson the Shambo has done with his arm lock. You know when he's when

he's put that shaft against the side of his left arm. Um, and Bernard Langer was one of the first to do that. We see Webb Simpson arm lock. We see Matt Coucher do that. Um talk about things that I think should be illegal are not allowed by the U. S g a UM. I think crossing and it's nice, but I'm not a big fan of this armlock. I don't think I've said that's The founding fathers of our game wanted a free swinging club. They didn't want something attached to

your body. That I agree with you. I like anchoring at all. But bread, this has really been so nice talking to you because we both love golf. We love to see golf go ahead. We want to see young people come out and be champions and play the game. To be grateful in life, Gratitude is a big thing, and to have the opportunity of living this country that ever existed is an honor. God bless you and God bless America. Gerry Uh, I love spending a minute with you,

never mind an hour. Thank you so much for having me. You've been an inspiration in my life too, for me and my love of the game. I hope when I'm five, I can break my age by one shot once. So thank you for having me. I can't wait to get to the golf course. I'm going out to hit right now. All right, take it bread, Godless. Don't forget to subscribe to the Player series on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast.