Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Arby Peterson, and maybe your new teacher, Bestie, that is here to hype you up, maybe give you a motivating kick in the pants, and teach you all I know about play and childhood. I am here to help you challenge old and outdated practices and inspire you to create a truly developmentally appropriate early childhood environment that fosters creativity, passion, Curiosity and joy in the children that you care for.
Let's set the stage for a lifelong love of learning. Let's get going. Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I think I'm going to try out some new intros like that, just like surprise people. Keep them in, keep them like on their toes. Beverly Beck is joining me for part two of our three part creativity series. I sound like a newscaster and have you ever, have you ever tried to talk like a newscaster? Like We are integrating creativity into early education and parenting, the how.
That's what we're going to be talking about today. So, okay. Well done. Well done. So, we're going to talk about early childhood education, how we can implement creativity into early childhood, because in the last episode, if you didn't listen, please go listen to that one.
We talked about, um, Why creativity is important and what it is, and um, this episode we're going to talk about how we can implement some of creativity into our work with children and or our own children, so we're gonna, we're gonna chat about some different things. things about how we can, how we can implement, right? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for cutting in and helping me out there. My brain is like, woo, all over the place right now. So, okay. I should have taken a beta blocker. Basically.
Yes, that is me too. I had a panic attack earlier on sort of fun. I was just like, get those tablets into me. I love that. Oh my goodness. We're too alike. Sometimes it's just too much. The imagination just gets a little bit too excited. Well, and I think that that's what's so wonderful about the ADHD brain. Like. We are the most creative beings, because we just, we, our brain just automatically floats everywhere all the time, so it's just, it's a gift, it really is.
It is a gift, it's, it is a gift, and it's also a curse. Yeah, it is. You gotta find somebody who can like, level you out a little bit, and like, take care of things that you just can't, because your brain is too wild. Yeah, like parenting, dishes, washing clothes. Yeah. All those lovely, boring things that you have to do every day, but it's just not fun. Do you want to know a secret? What? Um, I have a house manager that comes and does all that for me. That's awesome. That's an aspiration.
I have a cleaner. She was sick. She was coming today and she was sick, which, which left me in waiting mode all day. Oh no. So anyway. Okay. Here we go. Yes. Any help you can get is great. Yes, absolutely. Um, okay, so what are we talking about?
Um, so I was wanting to sort of ask you and pick your brain a little bit about what you, with all your experience in the early childhood authentication classroom, what way you would set up for ease of the kids just being creative and letting their own learning. Imaginations fly and go for it. Okay. So there's three main ways I think that you can really, um, get creativity flowing in your early childhood classroom. All right. So the first. Of course, is play.
Long amounts of uninterrupted free play time. And by long amounts, I'm talking in chunks of over 45 minutes. So, when children come in, and the reason I say 45 is because when children come in to an early childhood program, and you have all these amazing things set up for them to engage with, Children will window shop. So, they are going to, like, shop at all the different places to see what all is available to be able to play with.
And they're going to go from thing to thing to thing to thing to thing and, like, bounce all around. Okay? So, usually about 20 minutes. 25 minutes, 30 minutes in, they will finally, like, really settle into maybe one thing.
And let's say that thing is, uh, the example I love to give is they're playing Tiger with their friends, or they're playing Cheetah with their friends, and they're all cheetahs, and they're trying to, um, organize, organize themselves in this game, and they have to decide, like, who's gonna be the mom cheetah, who's gonna be the other mom cheetah, who's gonna be the dad cheetah, who's gonna be the grandma cheetah, Who's going to be the baby cheetah? Well, I don't want to be the baby cheetah.
Who's going to be the I want to be the I want to be the dog cheetah. Well, you can't be a dog cheetah because cheetahs are cats. Like, they have to go through this whole entire planning of what they're going to do, how they're going to, like, engage in this play. And that can take 10 15 minutes on its own. And by that time, like, Usually, it's like clean up time after half an hour. Like, half an hour seems to be what people do, but they haven't really gotten into the real good, sticky learning.
And you're cleaning up. So, I believe it needs to extend beyond, like, 45 minutes is the bare minimum. It really needs to, like, Our magical time was about two hours at Butterfly Hill. Like, in a given play time, like a chunk. And then we would, you know, Get ready to go outside, and then we will let them play outside again. So, large amounts of uninterrupted pre play time is the number one way that we can really let children explore their creativity.
Okay, the second one is, the second one is loose parts. Two, are you familiar with loose parts, Beverly? Oh, yes. Okay, so for those of you who maybe aren't familiar with loose parts, loose parts are just open ended materials that we plop into the environment that really don't serve a specific purpose. They may serve a specific purpose in, like, real life. So like, uh, a really, um, popular one is like napkin rings. Napkin rings, we use them as adults to put around a napkin if you're fancy.
And you have cloth napkins, but if you're a Christian, you aren't fancy and you use paper towels or your sleeve. So, napkin rings don't really hold a purpose in my household, but other people's it does. But, that, putting that into a child's environment, like, We don't need to tell them, this is a napkin ring, right? We let them use it for what they want to use it for. Um, the O. G. Do you, I'm gonna have you take a guess. What do you think the O. G. loose part is in an early childhood program?
Every classroom has it, or should. O. G. loose parts? Ooh. Um, blocks? Yeah, you got it! Uh huh. That's a loose part because a block can be a roller skate, a block can be a hamburger, a block can be a cell phone, a block can be built into something. So that is like the most original loose part and that is going to help foster children's creativity by letting them use those materials in whatever way They want to use those materials.
One of the most coveted loose parts that we had, I found on the side of the road, in a free box, um, was a curtain rod finale. So it's like, it was this giant, I know, okay, it was this giant pink gem, and it, you could screw it into the end of a curtain rod, like up at the top, to make it look pretty on the end, they call it a finale. So. That was like a coveted loose part in our classroom. So, and it wasn't a curtain finale, they didn't know that. To them it was like a giant piece of treasure.
Um, so loose parts are an amazing way to get creativity flowing in an early childhood classroom. And the last thing That I know you're going to love is process art. Yay! Not product based. We don't want children doing craft projects that are teacher directed. That is a creativity sucker. It's a creativity vampire. We don't want that. We want children to be able to use the materials that are out. in any way, shape, or form that they want to use the materials and explore freely on their own.
So process based art, it's all about the process, right? It's intrinsically motivated, it's child directed, and that is play, and that is like, going to drive so much creativity. Um, like, beyond what an adult can even comprehend when they're children, like, it is so fun to watch. So, those are my top three ways to integrate creativity into early childhood education. Awesome. I'm sitting here for, for like, cause it's a podcast, you're listening, nodding my head going, yes, yes.
It's all of those things. Is there anything you would add? I was just going to say, like, uninterrupted time, like, that, that, that is the epitome of flow. Like, you know, the last thing you want to do is, the last thing, like, imagine if you're an adult and You are really into something and someone comes over and takes it off you and goes, I'm like, I'm like, if your choice words said really from my point of view, I would be like, I don't think so. Go away. You know? I know.
Or for me, it's, um, even if it's not something that I'm like doing as like a, as play. So like, if I am writing an email and I am like, Pounding away at those keys, and somebody comes over and tries to talk to me. Like, don't try to talk to me while I'm writing an email. Like, I'm an email flow. I think that's different than creative flow. For some reason, like, writing an email is flow to me. And I will not know anything that you said if you try to interrupt me. No. Nothing.
No, but the thing is, it's like when you're, when kids are in school and they're just getting the hang of something and then you have to change up the subject just because the curriculum says you have to, children can only, you have an attention span for 25 minutes or, you know, it's just, Yeah, it's, it's, um, especially if they're, if they're at home or if they're out somewhere in the park or if they're doing anything and they seem to be really into it, they're totally in the zone learning.
They are! They're learning so much and even though it doesn't look like academic, like, I think a lot of times people think that learning is just academic, like it's just those cognitive skills, but learning for an early childhood is like the whole child. It's everything. It's physical. It's social and emotional. It's language. It's literacy. It's talking. It's having a conversation. It's running. It's jumping. Like every single thing that they are doing is learning.
It doesn't have to be ABCs and one, two threes. No, absolutely not. I think. Yeah. And yeah, I think that uninterrupted time where you are, where they're in, in flow and they're being so creative and thinking and they're taking it through all of their senses and it's just the, the feedback that they get just, yeah, that just don't interrupt them anymore. Oh, Liam C! Oh, yes. Yeah, and blocks. Love blocks. Blocks are amazing.
Blocks for painting, blocks for building, blocks for, um, building with shaving foam, blocks for making, um, like roads or balance beams or like so, so, so many things. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. All about the process. Definitely. The process art is, it, it is so, so, there's so much more to process art than actually just messing about on a bit of paper with different colored paints. Yeah. You might think that it looks. Just like a mess. But actually, again, they're taking in all those senses.
They're feeling the paint. They're thinking, is it cool? Is it, is it, you know, is it slimy? Is it thick? What, what, what's going on? How does it react? How does it attach to this paper? Can I get it off my hands? You know, they're building up a tolerance as well. If they are, you know, don't like it. Messy things and I'm, I'm all about the protest art. I think it doesn't matter what it looks like.
I just done a workshop there with 15 kids a couple of weeks ago and we had old socks and we had stuffing and we had elastic bands and I was like, so what can we do with these? And I sort of, you know, you question what, give them their ideas. Like even today, someone was asking Facebook about, um, I got all these stamps. So I donated, what am I supposed to do with them? You know, you're just like, so I just re made a list of different things that you could do with them.
And yeah, it's just about the, the ideas and forgetting as an adult. There's not just one answer. Yes. There's so many different ways you can do something. But, yeah, so I'll not rant on about Processor, but it is so, so important to do that because it actually is not even about the artist. It's about them building up their self esteem, learning to feel, trying out new practices. It's building up their confidence. Yes. Yeah, every, yeah, love it. Love it, love it, love it.
Do you wanna know one really cool thing? So now we'll let's, we can kind of shift into like parents of young children, at home caregivers, the guardians, if there's any of those listening and how they can incorporate, um, how they can just embrace and like foster creativity at home.
Um, one of the things that, cause I have older children, nine and up, and one of the things that we started doing, And closer to the end of the school year was called sticker journaling and I saw somebody on Instagram doing it and I was like oh my gosh this is like really great because you don't have to be skilled or feel like you need to be skilled at drawing or painting or anything like that you're just putting it's like sticker collaging really so I ordered A ton
of stickers, um, off the internet, and they showed up, and I got little tiny, um, I don't know, they're like, they're little craft notebooks that are blank pages that, like, how many inches, I'm holding it up, but you can't see it if you're listening, it's like, maybe, yeah, like six inches tall by four inches, or maybe, maybe it's four One, two, three, I bet they're like five by three. Five inches by three. Anyway, um, like little tiny notebook. Like a little journal. Like a blank page journal.
And then we just like, would sit down after school and we would all sticker together and we would create our own sticker pages and um, It was, it's so fun. We haven't done it in a while, but we still have a bajillion stickers, and I need to get them back out. Um, but that was just a really fun way with my older children to keep that creativity just a little bit longer. Yeah. What other ideas do you have? What do you do with your kids?
Um, my kids like sensory stuff as well, so we would do a lot of, um, making, like, putting stuff in, in the, in the freezer, in water, and then just, you know, chipping away at it and melting it and stuff with wee pipettes and everything. Yep. Um, they love anything messy, actually. My youngest and my oldest, so ten and a half and seven and a half, love anything to do with. Messiness.
Okay. Um, and then one of the things that I really like actually is if you have like washing up liquid and water and I can't remember the ratios I'll have to look it up but I think it's um. Okay water and what did you say? Water like you know for like a washing up liquid. Washing up liquid? What's that? For the dishes you know if you're washing your dishes you play dish soap. Dish soap. Yes. Oh Washing up liquid? Washing up liquid? Yeah. That is the cutest way to call it.
I'm gonna start saying that. So, stick them in the, in the, in, whisk them up and then you get like this bubbly foam. And it's so fun because it, it's like lovely, it smells nice, it's clean, it's. Yeah. It's just so much fun and, but yeah, something like that actually helps if you are going somewhere or it's with, with transitions or. Yeah. Getting ready for going back to school. Exactly.
Is actually a big thing in our house because we drove past the other day and everyone was just like, Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. I'm like, right, okay. Because when you're a parent of neurodivergent kids, it's like You are already worrying about the next year before they, even the year four , I feel you and I and also when you're, so I have some neuro divergent children as well.
Um, but also when you believe in creativity in place so much and realize that you send them to school seven hours a day and they get none of it like that is also very hard. It is. Yeah, and yeah, homeschooling is massive in the U. S. compared to over here, but, um, I just don't think I would be able to do it, even though I am a trained teacher. It would drive me insane, like, I'm ready for, I'm ready for the hills, as they say over here, you know, but, um, Yeah.
I love my kids, but I do, like, I need a little bit of space. You need space. I do too. I, I, I obvi I mean, like, I think most people do. Um, yeah, so that's just one of those things, like, I grapple with all the time. Yeah. I think. I remember when the midwife said, whenever I gave birth, she goes, Oh, baby comes out and the guilt goes in. It's like, yep, that's accurate. But yeah, sensory stuff for us. Like they love, um, rice if it's going out of date.
So I just go and look in the cupboard and see what we've got. We, if we've got any flour, we make some dough. It's just so easy, play dough. Or if we've got some rice, we just stick it in a sandwich bag or a Ziploc bag and put some paint in with it and mix it around. It's dry in no time and it's You just have some empty cans or some spoons and it's so easy to just, and just play with it. And it doesn't matter what age they are.
From there were no age, from there were like three, they love that type of thing for that as well. But, and then my eldest is 10 and then he still loves it as we're just calming, you know, my husband loves it. He's 45. Stick your hand in. It just feels nice. Yeah. You know, I think that I, so we live on a lake, so a lot of our summer lately, like my two littles.
We go outside in the afternoon and they swim with me while I lay out because that's my, I love the sun and I love being in the sun and it just like makes my life so much better. So they'll come out and they'll swim, but that's like really honestly a giant, it's like to them it's a creative thing. They were like, they brought out the other day these, um, so my son Knox, he's nine. He still has like a whole bunch of toys, you know?
And so he has like all of these bugs and creatures and They brought out like 30 some of those and it started out as a game like I had to throw them all and then they would go and hunt for all 33 of them or whatever. Then it morphed into this really cool thing where they were creating under the water on the, they both had goggles on, and under the water they were creating, they had, they found these poker chips, um, because we also, like I'll throw metal things out there. Like safe metal things.
And then we have an underwater metal detector. So they'll look for money or whatever coins, but we had some metal poker chips. So those were out there. They found two metal poker chips with the thing, and then they were using those as tables under the water for their little turtles and bug creature things. And so then they would take the little plastic animals and they would set up little like, um, play scenes. On the floor of the lake. It was so cute!
And it was just like, oh my gosh, I love this. Like, this is their play. And they're like 9 and 13. How adorable. But it's like a giant water table in my backyard. It totally is. I read somewhere, actually, that Spiderman is so good for anything.
all humans but especially neurodivergent humans because it's a it's a whole body sensory experience because of the pressure on your skin it's like deep pressure um so yeah amazing the water like that's one of my phrases is just add water yeah no matter what it is if it's Soap, a bar of soap at the sink. Like I know when my kids were little, they literally played with that for an hour or more. Just washing their hands and, and seeing the, the water turn a different color.
Yeah. And I'd play with the bubbles and putting up their arms and all over themselves. Yeah. And just simple, simple little things. It doesn't need to be complicated. No, just simple, simple. Keep it like in your, in your drawer. You've got saucepans, sieves, you've got, you know, ice cubes, you've got, um, old spices are really cool. You can make make potions, or, you know when you eat those stuff at the back of the cupboard, you forget about. Like, that's play. Just, just right there.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, and it's not, Thanks. It's not just, um, it's not just for fun, it's actually building up their emotional Yes Emotional outlet as well as building up their self esteem and being able to express that creativity and be able to tap into, as you say, like playing with, you know, mixed age children and yeah, just so much fun. I could talk about it all day. Absolutely.
We have, so one of the things that we have in our house to kind of like foster creativity is, well, we kind of have like a process art cabinet and it's just full of Different materials that the children, they can pull whatever out of there and create with. Um, the things that they are now, it's generally a lot of either painting or coloring.
Um, and the sticker journaling, of course, but, um, yeah, I've tried to get my, So my son, Knox, when he was in preschool, he used to love to do hot, hot glue gun sculptures at preschool. We used low temp glue guns so that they didn't burn their fingers, of course. But, um, I've tried to get him like to do that here at home and he doesn't really have any, he doesn't really want to.
So I don't force it, of course, because when you force something, then it's not intrinsic anymore and it's not play. And it's not, you just don't have, like, the same creative muscles, so. Yeah, no, totally. Um, actually, Donna, I was doing some research and stuff for today, and there was a few interesting things about Um, creativity and brain growth and the neural connection that it makes between, um, improving cognitive flexibility and problem solving skills.
Um, there was a study from Drexel University found that creating art significantly reduces stress related hormones and enhances cognitive functions. So it's, It's not just for fun. No, it's not. Yeah, like Harvard, another one says, um, how engaging in creative activities improves mental health and reducing stress, anxiety, depression, by boosting brain function.
They are learning, they are growing, and they are developing, but there's um, there's one thing if you don't mind me talking about it, um, is the different types of imagination. I'm excited to hear about this. Tell me more. So this is just something that, that I came across very recently actually, but there's actually eight types of imagination described by Professor Murray Hunter. So the first one, I usually get this one. Say this wrong, but it's effectuate. Imagination. E effect. Effectuate.
Effectuate. Yeah. Oh, so effect ua. Okay. Okay. So it's putting old ideas together. A new way to solve problems or create something new. So if you had like Lego sets or something, take them all apart and make, create something new. For example. So that is effectuative imagination. There is intellectual or constructive imagination, which is, um, helps you think about ideas and theories. And it's like using your imagination to understand and learn new things.
So for example, it's like imagining how dinosaurs lived. By thinking about toy dinosaurs and fossils that you've seen in books and everything and creating that Constructive sort of intellectual putting all the pieces together. Mm hmm. Number three is imaginative fantasy So, imaginative play. Yeah. Um, it's when you create stories and worlds that are entirely make believe. Full of magic and full of wonder.
Like dreaming of a world where animals can talk and have adventures and have little conversations back and forward. Um, little tea parties underneath the, the lake. You know, that type of thing. Yep. Then there is empathy or emotional imagination. So my daughter and I were just talking about this earlier this morning actually. Empathy imagination helps you understand how other people feel by imagining yourself in their situation.
Like thinking about how your friend feels when they're sad and imagining ways It's to make them feel better, a bit like you kind of maybe saying about the tiger scenario where you want to be the tiger baby and you know they're working things out like that. Number five then is strategic imagination, which helps you plan and think about the future. It's like imagining different paths and choosing the best one. So it's like planning a treasure hunt. Oh yeah.
Okay. All the different clues that you need to hide to make it fun and cohesive. Yeah. And number six is emotional imagination, which lets you create ideas based on your feelings and emotions. So like drawing a picture of a sunny day when you're happy or a rainy day when you're sad and making that connection between the emotions and what you're feeling. Drawing. Interesting. Yep. Mm hmm. Number seven then is dream imagination.
So it happens when you're asleep and your mind makes up all kinds of stories and visuals and I don't know about you, but I have quite a vivid dream. I have the wildest dreams and I will like text my partner after I have some of them sometimes and he's like, what? It is so detailed. Like I can, there's so many details and he's like, wow. Like you are so lucky you get like an actual movie in your head every night. I'm like, I know it's great.
Except for when they're scary, because it's really real when they're scary. Really, really real. There's actually a funny thing that came up on Instagram there yesterday. It was about, it was a couple, a married couple, and, um, the guy apologized to the wife for cheating on her in her dream. Oh my gosh, what a Um So dream imagination, it's like dreaming that you're a superhero saving the world when you're fast asleep or something like that. Yeah, and then the last one is memory imagination.
So that's where you take your memories and create something. Ah! Some new ideas, some new stories by mixing them together with new thoughts. Um, so like remembering a fun day at the zoo and imagining what it would be like if the animals could talk and they had a conversation and a story to tell you. So they are the eight types. That's interesting. I, I did not know any. I, I didn't know. I mean, I obviously know there's different types of play, but I didn't know.
Like, and one of the types of play is imaginative play, but I didn't know you could break down, like, imagination into all those types. That's wild. It is wild. I was like, really? Whenever I discovered it too, I was like, wow, that's so cool. That is so cool. Her brains are fascinating. Like, oh, there's so many layers to our brains and so many theories and, you know, it just, it's such a fun. It's so fun to learn and that's play for me. It might not be play for other people.
It seems like it's play for you too. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. No, absolutely. I just, I think learning about it is fascinating because then you start putting the pieces together and start thinking, Oh, that's how that used to be for me. Or that's what it's like, or that's what they're going through. Or you're able to kind of, Then look at a situation slightly differently. Yeah. I also think it's really interesting, I never really thought that empathy is actually a form of imagination.
Like, if you are imagining yourself in their shoes, like, putting yourself in their shoes, that is what empathy is. And I've never really thought of it as far as being, like, you've got to have a little bit of creative thinking in order to, to do that. To do that, yeah. Hmm. We were talking about the, um, Inside Out movie this morning. Um, the kids are fascinated by what the emotions are going to be in the next one. Yeah. Like, definitely going to be nostalgia, because she was there.
I know, I love nostalgia! Oh my gosh, she was so cute. They're trying to figure out what's going to be next, um, what the other emotions are, when, and they're trying to figure out is it going to be when you're an adult, or is it going to be when you're old, or, you know, so they're already using the information they've got. Yeah. Figuring out. Imagine what it could be. Yeah, yeah. So that's always fun too. And imagination, yeah, it really is a form of creativity.
Yeah. Do you think it's the basis of creativity? I'm not 100 percent sure, I'm not, I don't, um, but I would say that imagination, um, Do you think that like it has to have one of those eight, like, in order for a creative thing to happen, does it have to happen within one of those eight forms of imagination? Oh, interesting. Yeah. I don't know. Something to think about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we'll have to find out and get back to you.
Yeah, and maybe there's never been like a definitive, like a definitive theory on that. I don't know. Don't know. If anybody knows. We can come up with our own theory. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're off on a tangent. Oh my God. But it is so cool to think that there's eight forms of imagination and I didn't know about it until I was like 43 or something. Do you want to know? Do you want to know, okay, did I just cut you off? Did you have more to that thought? You want to know what I just learned?
Well, this year, um, because of the Olympics, my whole life, I thought water polo with people on horses playing polo on horses and in water, like I imagined horses like tromping around in huge puddles, but also swimming in pools with people on their back. And then it knocks is like, I've been loving watching water polo and he's like, let's watch water polo. So we turn it on and it's people. In a pool, with a ball, throwing it. And I was like, this is I always thought water polo had horses in it.
I can see where you would think that. I think maybe you're mixing up your memory imagination there though. Right? Isn't it hilarious though that like, I'm 44 and I finally just figured out what water polo is. Yeah. I'm 42. I'm exactly that. But I've just found this out last year. Just, it was funny. I, um, I don't know whether this is relevant or not, but just, I just literally found out a couple of years ago off my cousin, who's a math teacher. What, how to figure out what you left is.
Yeah, it makes an L. I did not know that. All the way through school. You didn't? No. Oh my! Yeah, that's a good, that's a, uh huh, I've used that with my kids even at different points of time. Mm hmm. I do now, but I didn't know it until I was, like, thirty four or something. Oh my goodness. That is so funny. Yeah, the one that looks like an L when you look at it. Mm hmm. Probably not the best. Still on the arguments.
Probably not the best for, like, dyslexic children who reverse letters, but, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, there's so many different ways that you can put brain creativity into your day and to early education and parenting and be able to just pick something up and leave it for the kids to sort of figure out what they want to do with it. Absolutely. You don't have to be the one to come up with the ideas all the time.
No, get your adult nose out of it and just, like, let them engage with the materials and just, yeah. It's the best learning possible. Yeah. Um, I'm really excited for our next episode. We're going to chat about what creativity looks like for adults. Um, so that's what you get to stay tuned for the next episode with Beverly Beck. Beverly, until then, where can they find you? Where can they connect with you?
Um, just send me a little message saying send me a hello at happylittlehumans, hello at happylittlehumans. com or, um, find me on Instagram at happylittlehumansplay. Amazing! Thanks for being here. And stay tuned for next time. Bye. Bye. If you liked what you heard today, share this podcast with your coworkers, admin, or maybe even your partner. And I love getting five star reviews so more people can embrace play. Hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Or connect with me on Instagram or my website, KristenRBPeterson. com. Until next time.