Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Arby Peterson, and maybe your new teacher, Bestie, that is here to hype you up, maybe give you a motivating kick in the pants, and teach you all I know about play and childhood. I am here to help you challenge old and outdated practices and inspire you to create a truly developmentally appropriate early childhood environment that fosters creativity. Curiosity and joy in the Children that you care for.
Let's set the stage for a lifelong love of learning. Let's get going. MADD THOMPSON BEHAVIOR What was the other word behind that? Consulting. Consulting is joining me for the podcast today. Great intro there, Kristen. Um, Well, I mean, this is going to be interesting. We already knew that before we started. We did. We are like kindred spirits and We are. That live on different sides of the country.
Very excited, and I just, you know, of course right before you hit record, good stuff starts rolling out of Meg's mouth, and I told her to stop talking, to shove all the words back in her mouth, so that we didn't waste all the goodness before we started. So, here we go! We're talking! One of your favorite things to jam about, and one of my favorite things to, like, be on a soapbox about, is behavior management through Yucky things like behavior charts and rewards.
I call, I say stickers, tickets, tokens, points, clips. And now I have to say candy. Oh my god. Kristen, they're giving out candy. Okay, but I also just want to first preface this with, like, I was there. I did these things. I didn't know any better. I didn't know the psychology behind it. I just did what I saw on Pinterest. And I think that that's where a lot of young teachers who are in survival mode They don't even have to be young.
Teachers who are in, like, survival mode or maybe haven't done a lot of reflection or a lot of learning around these strategies, that's where a lot of them are, and they just, they don't know any better. And they're overwhelmed. Or they're forced to do it. Or they're forced to do it by administration. Yes. So, it's okay if you are listening and you're doing those things.
And the hope today is that You won't be doing those things after this episode, and we have some, maybe some strategies that you can do instead. Yeah. This is one of the biggest ones, of course, because this is the Play Based Learning Podcast. Um, in my mind, play is one of the bigger ones. Uh, yeah. Children. Um, so, let's, let's talk about it.
Uh, let's just start with why they're why behavior strategies like that, like stickers, charts, tokens, clips, candy Took me a long time took me a long time to figure out how to say it. Stickers, tickets, tokens, points, clips, candy. Oof, I'm not gonna get that. I was just gonna try to start writing them down as you said them, but I wasn't fast enough. Uh, why are they not Helpful at all, and why are they not developmentally appropriate?
So that's, like, maybe two questions, maybe they fit together somehow? Yeah, so, they're not appropriate because we want kids to do the next best thing because they are internally motivated to do so. Stickers, tickets, tokens, points, clips, and candy.
Use external motivation for kids to do the right thing, but while you're working with external motivation You are diminishing internal motivation so you can't do both at the same time people say we'll do I'm gonna do The sticker chart until and then I'm gonna fade it away. But while you're doing the sticker chart you are canceling out And diminishing the learning and the internal motivation. So it is, so, so you're, so you're cancelling out what you want.
Yeah. And. Um, uh, like, like you said, I, I did them, I had a big, oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed to say this, but I had a big, huge, it was like a black trash bag on my wall, on my wall, that sounds beautiful, doesn't it? Oh, wow. And, with the stoplight, the, the red, yellow, and green, I have like, I have a little bit of a twitch when, when I see red, yellow, green, anything, cause I know that it has to do with, Some sort of poor behavior management system, but I had on my wall and it was huge.
It had to have been probably four feet tall on my wall. Oh my gosh. And it had everybody's name on it with clips. Yeah. And there was one kid, and when he was mad at you, he called you a big head. He was from Virginia, and he said, you're a big head! And he said it with this little I love it. Little accent. And we were like, you know what, this is gonna work. This is gonna do it. If we start putting them on yellow and red Oh, he told us where to stick it. He did not care about that at all, ever.
That, we'd be like, buddy, you're gonna, you have to move to red. And he goes, good! Move me to red. You calling my mom? Can I go home? And I was like, oh. Oh my gosh. So some kids, you ask developmentally wise, so you know I do a lot with temperaments. So there are some temperaments who don't care. Like this little guy. He didn't care. There are ones that have increased anxiety over it. Increased perfectionism over it. Increased depression over it. Um, they can't Do anything else.
They're so like zoned in on being a good kid. Yeah. And if they ever were on Yellow, it's the end of the world. They can't even, they like cry all day, and I've seen it work so poorly for anything, it doesn't matter if it's public, I mean public is the worst. All public behavior management strategies end in shame, guilt, and embarrassment. Oh, absolutely. Every single one. So, um, so, people are like, well, I'll make them private, and I'm like, I don't think, right?
No. Just because you put it in a folder and stick it under your desk, that's a Oh, like, my son last year, and I had an issue with this, but like, not a it wasn't a big enough issue because I, you know, truth in my battles. Um, so maybe that wasn't a battle I should have chosen, but he had to do something called credits and debits all year. Mm. But they would collect credits by, and I asked, how do you get the credits? And he said, by being good. And I go, what does being good mean?
That's why such developmentally appropriate. He had no idea what, no idea he had to do to be good. Nope. And then he, and I said, so what, how do you get debits? He goes, well, by being bad. And I go, what do you, what do you do to be bad? Like what sorts of things? He's like, I don't know. I don't think he ever got a debit all school year. Um, because he was so hyper focused on trying to just be good all of the time. Um, and this year they don't do anything. They do like.
Not individual wise that I know of yet, um, but they do do like a big class, you know, earning enough points for a pizza party. Oh my gosh, just have the pizza party. Right? Like, let's, yeah, yeah, so, the problem is, is I ask kids all the time, you know, I go into, um, Not only am I on Instagram and do all the, like, the virtual stuff, but I also, like, go into schools every day. I go into schools every day. I go into homes every day.
I've been into a school and a home already today before I even did this. And, um, when you ask the kids how you get it, they'll say to be I have to be good, I have to be nice, or I have to be kind. Yeah. But if you line up Adults who know the definition of good, nice, and kind, and line them up, say ten. You would get ten different definitions for each of the three words. And then bad is, okay, so, what am I gonna say if, um, you ask me bad? I would probably say my hot button.
I would probably say the thing that makes me crazy, right? I taught kindergarten in a childcare setting, so it was preschool, but I live in New Hampshire, and they didn't have full day kindergarten yet when I was teaching. So it was really just older preschool but we called it kindergarten because it could be used as a kindergarten. Yeah. So as a kindergarten teacher I did not like whining.
We said lava's gonna come out of my ears and it's gonna drip down and my head's gonna explode and glitter's gonna come out. Oh my god. I couldn't, I couldn't take whining. I can't take the repetition of things. That's another hot button. Like if they're like Meg, Meg, Meg, Meg. I'm like oh oh oh and you know I like twitch on my right side. But that's when I say, what, that would, uh, be in my definition of bad.
But some people, their definition of bad, I'm like, I hang out with the hard kids all the time, but that stuff doesn't bother me. Well, like, so do the kids know the rules, right? And this is what I started to say before, when it all fell out of my mouth, you told me to gobble it back up, is that play is one of the best solutions, except we don't want to have them play behavior games. Okay, so all this is a behavior game. It is right.
So if you go into schools and you're like, we're gonna do even if it's group points, we're gonna do group points. And if you get enough points, you're gonna get a pizza party. Well, pizza party is the prize. And if there's a prize and you have to get enough points, that's a game and you don't. Play games you don't want to in life a lot, right? Like I played soccer for a long time that my soccer team was really good and we kept winning so it got boring It wasn't me. Believe me.
I uh, was only good at running So so we played field hockey for us for a session. I was like, nope Nope. I don't like field hockey. The rules are different. There's no checking or knocking people over. You can't use your feet. That's the whole point of soccer. So, so I quit. Yeah. Because I don't like that thing. Yeah. I played, uh, club volleyball. Didn't really like it. But nobody says, so people always say like, how do I move out of this sticker chart thing? Ask how many kids want to play?
Because we probably don't want to. Would we ever do it with adults? No. No. Nope. Not at all. I hope not. It'd be gross. Could you imagine if your employer was like, we're gonna play this game and if everybody, like, can stay on green all day long and do your job as I think you should do your job, except for I'm not gonna be very clear on what you need to do. You get no clear instructions. Then, we're gonna do this. You know, like, We're going to take a company trip.
So the sad thing is, PBIS, which is Positive Behavior Intervention Supports, that is, uh, almost every school in history, uh, right now, uh, across the country. The public school is a PBIS school. So when it wasn't working for kids, their idea was to do it to the adults, who then do it to the kids. So if you have a well behaved class, or if you get, your kids get the pizza party or whatever, you get a Gift card to Olive Garden, or you get a gift card to whatever.
So then it felt right to do it to the kids because you got a prize along with the kids. Oh, wow. Yep, so they were doing it to the adults. They still are doing it to the adults. Like, right, or if you don't have Something in your classroom like that and they come in and look like sometimes, like I said, it's mandatory. So it has to be on the wall. And a lot of teachers, I put it like on the side of a, of a, like a filing cabinet. So you can't see it. And then they get in trouble for that.
And that's the hard thing is teachers are like, so what do I do if it's mandatory. Yeah. So I say, go in with research, I have all the research, I have like a hundred and something articles on my website under research on my homepage, and um, print some of them. Print ten of them. And to have research that proves the stuff we're doing, um, in the behavior field is not, is not supported by research.
And it actually ends in shame, guilt, and embarrassment for kids, and I wanted to share it with you. Until we discuss it, and you find the research that shows that it does work, and, not or, it does work, and it is emotionally healthy for kids, I would love to sit down and talk. The problem is they will never find research on that side. That's brilliant. That's a good strategy.
So then, and, and if, and it's helpful if you go, if you're a mom or a dad, you go with another mom or a dad, or if you're a teacher, you go with another teacher. So you're not like, I think it's uncomfortable for people to be an outlier, not for me. I will go, I'll go in. I carry the research in my, All the time. Yeah, I've printed out like little packets of 10 and I have them and I'll give them and it's also not good for right any kid that, um, has a neurodivergent brain.
So, under that nurture neurodivergent umbrellas, the one I work with most is ADHD autism and anxiety. And, um, so that's not good for those kids anyway because it makes the mask and.
I have to now look like a normal, I'm doing that in quotation marks, a normal kid, and they just don't, and then it's like a skill set, they don't know how to do it, like, because, again, it's vague, I don't know how to, those kids picked it up, I missed it, I don't know how to do it, and now I'm like, so upset about it, and then, and then I tell, yeah, and then I tell, and then I tell, um, parents Like to say that you're not going to do it.
You're, you're, you're taking your kid off the sticker chart. My, uh, Brennan, my 11 year old, does not go to public school because of our sticker charts here. And, um, I would have had to take him off. Teachers get really mad that I say that because they're like, well, right, then they think that I mean, there's no consequences for your actions. You know that that's not true. That's not true. It's that the consequence is not going to be a teacher.
The consequence has to be natural, logical, or a teaching consequence. Yeah, absolutely. It's like, why can't we just like have a conversation with children sometimes? Yeah, yeah, we're weird, right? Let's, let's talk together. I mean, there's lots of different things that you can do, like, to work on behavior management. I hate that term, behavior management. I, I know. I don't, yeah, I don't. I don't like to use them. I like to use social and emotional learning.
But then I don't know if people really know what that means. They don't, because, and, no. So, but that, I do. I do too. And you do. I do too, but I know that people are like, Wait, you want me to teach them how to get along socially with people in the world? Yes. Like, I'm supposed to be teaching them academics. Like, I don't have time to teach social skills. Well, 85 percent of your success is in social skills. People skills.
15 percent is if you can do the, like, You're right, 15 percent is what I would put on a resume to get a job at your preschool. That's my 15%.
Like I've, right, I've taught with Bev Boss, you know, you're my, you're my Bev Boss now, like I've taught with Bev Boss, I've gone to California, I've, um, taught kindergarten for 10 years, that's what I would put, that's, those are my technical skills, that I would put on it, and then you would hope after you're like, she's hired, that I would use the 85%.
I'm not gonna walk around and, uh, quote Bev Boss, But not like, right, and just hope that Piaget, I've never used Piaget, I don't know, right, and Child Growth and Development, what did we learn? Piaget, Vygotsky, Erickson, Freud, and Skinner. I don't use any of those five in any of my, any things. Nothing? I don't know. Maslow's Hierarchy of Ne Oh, you didn't say Maslow. No, Maslow, I, I, I do.
Okay. But the other five, I'm like, I, right, if a kid is having a hard time, and he's having bad behavior, I'm putting that in, um, quotation marks, bad behavior, has anybody thought, WWPD, what would Piaget do? No one thought that ever. Nobody's thinking about what Piaget would do. No, but people actually have said, I will say, what would Kristen do? And I sometimes think, what would Meg do? That's funny, I thought the same thing. People say, what would Meg do?
And I thought, what would Kristen do? Or what would Bev do? Like, sometimes I see your stuff and I'm like, My gosh, it's like, you, you, like, came from, I don't know, like, how it happened, I don't know, uh, you, I would have thought, I was like, maybe she was there when I was there, and I missed her the whole time. No, no, but you have the same, so I, if I didn't go into behavior, I would be on the, uh, the interwebs, and, uh, on social media doing what you do, because. That's what I did.
I did play. I worked in a nature based school. Right. I, um, upset the apple cart in my internship program. They wanted you to do it in New Hampshire. I was like, hey, I'm gonna go to California and work with them. Yeah. And, um, and then But now, but I ended up in the You did. In the behavior world. You can always add a stream. You can always add a pillar. You can always add it. You can be multi passionate. I don't know if I can handle another pillar.
But when I go into schools and kids are hard, I was like Uh, it's because there's no play happening. I know. So let's, yeah, that's, let's bring it all back to play. I want, like, so I'll just let you know that I, um, and any listeners who maybe don't know, were just picking up on this episode. I worked in a traditional preschool for a few years and that was before I knew better. Before I found play, I found play.
Two years after I started at that program and really started diving in the last year that I was there and I ended up putting in my Um, because I realized what I was doing was not developmentally appropriate and could not make the changes that I wanted to make in that setting, I put in my notice, I just didn't feel good about what I was teaching, and took a huge risk, and had no income, then had to figure out other ways to make money to be able to like, support my family,
but I just couldn't, I didn't feel good about it, and so I was able to I opened a program with zero of my own dollars and it's, it was completely play based. I'm retired from that now. That was 10 years ago. Um, it was, it opened in 2014, but I started working on it in 2012.
And. I realized that once children were in play and I let them play for large amounts of time throughout the day and to make their own choices about how they spend their time and not give them so many transitions and just like let them be fully their own person, let them like live into that childhood and live into that creativity and live into that play, I realized that like, We were having to spend so much less time on behavior management, and I'm doing that in air quotes, too, because
we would, I mean, like, we really realize that a huge part of our jobs as early childhood educators is one, caregiving. Like you have to take care of needs before anything else, because it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Like, you have to make sure that all of those things are met the food, the safety, the connection, um, the like autonomy, you have to make sure that all of those things are met before learning can happen.
And then, um, you have to, well now my squirrel brain is like forgetting what. So you have to make, so it's caretaking first, and then it's social and emotional coaching second, so that they can have the brain space to like, pull in those academic things that that's what you know, you're hoping they get out of things and they learn all those things you play. But we kind of just saw ourselves as like a huge part of our job is coaching children how to talk to each other.
And, and how do you do that, that social emotional coaching, which I had a kind of a similar experience, right, and realized I needed to do something different because I couldn't make the changes. So how do you do that social emotional coaching when you're not letting kids choose their social emotional partners and play and you can't, like you can't. I have a workshop called for the love of circle. That's how it's supposed to be said.
Okay. Okay. And um, Like, how do you get them, like, are they going to learn what they need to learn in Circle? No, because they hate Circle, and they can't read, and they don't care about Calendar, and they can't sit criss cross applesauce, and it's just like Yeah. They poke their eyeballs out now! How are you doing social emotional coaching and that? You're doing it You're probably doing it wrong! Only because It's the wrong setting to do it in. Yeah. Oh, you keep your hands to yourselves.
Criss cross applesauce. Loosening ears. And why does everything rhyme, Kristen? You get what you get and you don't get upset. I don't know. We say it. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit. But that doesn't rhyme. Yeah, it does. You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit. No, get and fit don't work. Oh, well, if you say, if you get what you get, you don't throw a fit. Oh, yeah, if you get what you get, yeah. That rhymes.
I always say that one's not true, because if you went to Dunkin Donuts, and you were like, I am getting a French vanilla iced coffee, I've been waiting for it all day, I'm on my break, and I am psyched about this. Iced coffee and you go, I'd be pissed if they didn't have it. Oops. And well and, and you go to get it and they give you a hot black coffee and you're like, oh, I actually ordered a um, French vanilla iced coffee. And they're like, you get what you get and you don't get upset.
Yeah, sure. Mess with people Coffee. Yeah. Really mad. Oh my gosh. Okay. But I hate when it's, when, you can't see, but I'm gonna, like I'm holding a red marker and a green marker, and you're like, okay, what color do you want? And they're like, red! And you go and give them green, and you say you get what you get, and you don't get upset. I'm like, that's just mean! Yeah, it is. You already had it. Yeah. Yeah, so, I have a hard time when, um, I go to so many places, preschools.
And I, my first question is, before I give any notes, is, is this, would you consider this a play based setting? Yes. Oh. Then we have a lot of work to do. Yeah. Cause teacher, I sent you the thing, uh, yesterday, like, teacher crafts? That's not art? Right, if there's a, if it's product art, right, we're Well it's not even art then, it's product craft. Art is like, intrinsically motivated, and it's like, the It's about what's inside the artist.
And you have to have a shelf that has all the things that is self serve. Which makes people really have a hard time, right? It's really all about adult control when it comes down to it. Yes. Like, most things in educational settings is all about the adults. And their comfort. Because we're older, and we can tell kids what to do.
So, like, I have a really big issue with, just like, I noticed adult control everywhere now, so like, pulling up to the middle school in, um, to pick up my child at middle school, and I see some kids throwing snowballs, trying to get them, they're waiting for their parents outside, and you got the adults, like the stodgy old adults, like standing there on the sidewalk, monitoring the kids, and they're throwing They're seeing how high they can throw a snowball to get
it to stick to the side of the building. Like, who cares? It's gonna melt in about four minutes because it's nice out. Yeah. But you hear the adult on the other end of the sidewalk hollering at the kids like, Nope! Nope! Snowball's on the ground! It's like, whoo! It's not hurting anyone or anything! Like, why do we have to be so They go to worst case scenario, right? That's what anxiety is. The thought pattern of, yeah, but what if, followed by worst case scenario. Right.
Like, are they gonna hit each other? They're in middle school, so if they hit each other, you just, the other kid will probably whack them and say, Cut it out! Oh my goodness. Anyway, so, Okay, so I noticed back to when we let children play and make their own choices and have lots of time to play and use that intrinsic motivation and be creative, you have a lot less Behavior management issues, because you're not continually trying to control everything the children are doing.
When you can release that control, everyone's happier. Like, I'm happier as an adult when people aren't trying to control me. And the thing is, is then people see it as Well, then it's gonna be a disaster. What happens if, this is the question I get all the time, what happens if they never, or if they always, or if they, and, I'm like, you can't relinquish control like you said, and give it all to the kids, cause they're four. They can't have all of it. Yeah. Right, it's a sharing of it.
But, people have a hard time sharing that power and control, and what does that look like, right, for different temperaments, it looks different. And I just came from a house where the grandparents just yelled at the little guy the whole time, and I was like, and I was like, And he can't go to a playgroup because he's unsafe and not appropriate in the playgroup. So, um, I'm like, oh, man, I just, I wish that we could figure out how to have set up a school.
I mean, we can figure it out, but people have such a hard time. I remember going and working at Bev's school. Her, I was there when it happened, which was amazing, is that her goal was Was to play her harpsichord and, um, sing her song to get everybody to come to Gathering Time. And her goal was to have nobody come. Because they were so ingrained in all their play. That everybody was like, Story, peace out lady, I got mud. So, I was there when it happened. And she sat down and nobody came.
I came. I went. Um, and she looked up to me and she had tears in her eyes and they were flowing down. And I was like, I think this is happy. I'm not really sure. She said, nobody came. Oh my gosh, can you believe it? Nobody came. And she's hugging a child. It was like she was the queen. Oh my gosh, I love that. That has never been a goal anywhere else I've ever been. Yeah, that's amazing. Her goal was that nobody would come because they would be so engrossed in their play.
She set up an environment so rich in play and so interesting for the kids that she had nobody come to Her reading a story. Do you want to know what, um, my goal was? Because I knew then that I had done my job, socially and emotionally coaching children, is that when children were in play, um, my goal was it to be able to stand there and do nothing. Like, to not have anybody come to me and need my help with anything.
So, like, when I felt like I wasn't needed anymore, like, I Children didn't need me and I could just, like, if I wanted to, you know, like, could sit and smoke a cigarette and, like, peace out. Uh, that was my goal. I'm not gonna smoke a cigarette and peace out, but, like, Just to be able to stand there and, like, see everybody so immersed and engaged in play and being able to, like, solve problems with others when they arise without the help of an adult, like, that is when I knew I did my job.
And I did it well. So, I mean, that's social. I mean, that's, that's what we want for young children, right? Okay, so, maybe give us some behavior, I don't know if we want to call them behavior strategies, I don't know what you call them. What are some examples of some things that Work, then, in early childhood programs, in play based programs. Or even not play based. Like, what works? So my masterclass explains it all, right? We'll talk about that at the end.
But, when, the first thing you have to do, behavior management wise, right? That's always going to be in quotation marks. Um, is self reflect. Why do you do what you do? Why, if you're doing calendar still, why do you do it? Is it because it's always been like that? Right? That's what we're getting a lot of. Or, right, I have a couple people that say, do you have research on calendar? I do. Hey, you send me your research first. And I'll send you my research.
But they don't have research, they just have always done it that way. So you have to self reflect. What's our temperament? I have, I am intense and sassy. I don't, I don't think that's a secret. Um, I have squirrels. How do I engage with an environment? Right? Yeah. So there's a lot of self reflection piece. And if you're not doing any self reflection and you're just doing what you're told, you're gonna have a really hard time behavior management wise. Yeah, yeah.
And then you have to ask yourself, who is this child? Who is this kid that I'm working with? Are they just like me? Because the ones just like you are the hardest. The ones opposite you are the second hardest, right? I married my opposite and gave birth to myself. That's why I work, uh, into the night time, right? And then we have to look at the relationships. Right? Relationships.
Everybody says relationships are your best behavior strategy, and that is true, but you do not have the right information on relationships and temperaments and self reflection. But, I mean, it's like a whole process in a relationship, right? So people keep diminishing. How strong relationships can be for your behavior management because they don't have the information to back up. Who am I? Who is this kid? How do we work together? Right? And then how do I set up an environment for all kids?
That's really tricky, especially in a public school, because you're, you have walls and you have desks and you have, like, how do I set up this environment for kids, right? What sort of discipline do I use, right? You have to use consequences. And it's not not using them. I know that was a double negative. My mom, if my mom watches this she's going to be like, Megan Thompson! Because you can't double negative. Um, she was an English teacher. So, what kind of environment do we have?
What kind of discipline, right? And then specific strategies. Right, well, so if we use this, all of these, what I'm talking about. We go from 18 to 24 percent. Of our kids have some sort of evaluation diagnosis. If we go through all of what I just said, by the time you get to support plans, like, Oh, okay, now I need an OT, I need a PT, I need a school psychologist, I need a school counselor, I need a mom and a dad, I need everybody to get together. But we've done all this work.
It goes from 18 to 24 percent to 1 to 2 percent. Because we've done all the work. So, the thing is, is people when they say, So what, so what do you do? What does work? And I was like, I'm not going to tell you another Pinterest strategy. I'm not going to take your Pinterest strategy and say don't use sticker charts, but I'm going to give you token boards. It's the same stuff. Yeah. I didn't go to Pinterest and find the one that does work and then like, No. Pay Pinterest to have it.
So when you ask me, I then give it to you? No. It's a lot more complicated than that. Well, because people say, so what do I do instead? Yeah. That's the wrong question. Okay, what is the right, yeah. What new information do I need so I know what to do instead? Oh. But the new information is, right, and you talked about this at the beginning, like, I went in and you taught for two years not knowing what you didn't know. You went into a school and you were like, I, I don't know what I don't know.
And I did the same thing, right? I was in advertising, I didn't start teaching until I was 26. I, you know why I got the job? I had sparkly spandex on, and I gave great underdoggies. That's why I'm underdoggies when you go under the kid's swing. That's how I got the job. Oh my goodness. Because I was lighthearted and funny and the kids liked me. But I didn't know anything about discipline. Obviously I had that trash bag stoplight on my wall. Oh my gosh.
So, we don't know, we don't know, so people listening now that are like, Oh my god, I do this stuff. Well, yeah, we did too. And I think probably everybody did because it is what you currently learn, unfortunately, in many of the early childhood or education programs that you go, right, I have a master's, and in my master's I learned sticker charts. Oh my gosh. And my, and my master's degree. And then I had to unlearn that to relearn my B majors. Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's still, it's still being taught, so like, we're not mad at you guys for knowing that. No. That's just, and If you don't know what what I mean, if I asked you a question, Kristen, you didn't know you'd be like, oh, Google it. And then you're like, yeah, absolutely. That's what happens. If you look up behavior management, that's what you're getting. You're getting all the Pinteresty stuff. Yeah. Yep. So we need all this new information. And, um, some, right.
Some people are like, well, where else can I get it? Right. You can follow Brene Brown. She talks a lot about it. Shame and vulnerability. Um, you know that I love Alfie Kohn. I love, right? I have them all over here. What do I have? I have all the, right? I have tons of books and you just have to, and it's rare that you get a strong willed or ADHD book and it does not have A behavior chart in it, almost every one.
I buy them, I buy them at like, I like thrift stores, so I buy them at Goodwill, I buy all the things. And then I look and I find them in every single one. Aww. I know. Okay, so what, tell me, do you have like, one book that people could read and, and learn more? Yeah, Punished by Rewards by Elfie Kohn.
Yeah. He does a great job on, um, Telling you the research, he also talks about how if you are trying to drive someone externally, you are impeding their internal motivation, um, but right, people like, so who are you to? Right? Who are you two, Meg and Kristen, telling us what to do? Right? I get a lot of people that are like, you don't know. And I was like, okay. You don't have to take my word for it. Yeah. I'm not the only one who was able to buy books. On the All the books! Talk about it.
And then people say this. They'll say, um, all my research. They're like, but they're not peer reviewed. You know what? I If you read a research article, And it does not ask the teachers, the parents, or the children about how they feel about any of this stuff. I don't want to read it. I don't want you to just collect data and spew data back at me. I want to know, are the kids thriving emotionally, socially, mentally? Are they, are they, like, feel safe?
Yeah. With these things, because what I've seen, I've, I ask periodically, probably once a month, and I collect all the, the data, or as much as I do as a drunk squirrel, I collect all the data, like, how do people feel about these things? I've had one mom say to me that her child likes them because he, at least he knows how he's behaving. That's the only almost positive one I've ever gotten.
And maybe only the people who Have a hard time with them are answering, but it is almost every when I asked kids, I was like, okay, so I saw you have a clip chart in your class. Do you love it? And I try not to sound like it's a leading question, right? And they were like, no, so much anxiety, you know, and after COVID, there's so much anxiety anyway, I know. And, and I know that a lot of educators are readers. So if You read Punished by Rewards. There's also Unconditional Parenting.
There's the Schools Our Kids Deserve, I think. I'm trying to remember. My bookshelf is shame over there. I have, um, all the books. Uh, and I read some of, some of the books. But I think they're probably all on Audible too, right? If you, like, found what you're doing. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so there, we just need new information, and then, and then I know that that costs money. I know that, that's why I'm giving half off my masterclass. I know that That's amazing.
We don't have time for that, but, I don't, I don't, there's, I don't know, do you know a way around that? Not getting the new information, not getting the stuff that we need, I don't know how else to do it. I refuse to give you another Pinterest strategy.
Absolutely. Well, and I think that if you are in the field of education and you are truly wanting what's best and developmentally appropriate for the children that you're working with, then you would hopefully seek out the information to get more information about what's What you need to do differently and it's not quick and it's not easy and it takes a lot of Like self reflection which is really difficult for adults to do because we don't want to experience negative emotions and so We
think we're not good enough, right? I think yeah So that's, I mean, something that you just have to recognize that if you want to be truly, you know, do what's truly best for young children, you might have to unpack a lot of your, a lot of your stuff. Because it all comes down to the adults who are wanting to control everything in those spaces. Yes. Oh, okay, well I do this for seven hours.
Oh my gosh, I do too, but I think that's a good I mean, you and I would talk for seven hours, I don't think anybody would listen to us for seven hours. Nobody would listen. Nope. So, tell us where people can find more, we'll link everything below in the show notes, but where can people connect with you and find out more about what you do? Okay, so, um, I am on Instagram at Meg Thompson Behavior. So Meg has two G's. I do not know where Meg one G Thompson behavior takes you.
Okay, so you need two G's. Um, and it, my website is meg thompson.com again with two G's and um, I am doing half off my masterclass. So my masterclass. Thank you. My masterclass is pretty inexpensive, so it's nine hours of professional development that you get to. Do in your home. That's amazing. You can, you can eat grilled cheese and drink water. I'm linking. Yeah. With the water part. Drink water with grilled cheese.
And, um, and it's, uh, the real, the real price, the full price is 99, but for, and I, I'll give you 49 and, um, right, you just have to follow me and DM me and I will give you the free code, or the half off code. Amazing. Okay. Yes. Thanks. Thank you so much for the work that you get it for a lifetime. I'm supposed to say that because it's not Right? A lot of times you get it for like You have to watch this in three weeks and then it expires or blows up or I don't know, something.
Yeah. Um. It's forever. As long as it lives online. You have your whole life to watch it. Oh my goodness. Hopefully the internet will be around that long. Oh gosh, imagine. I don't know what people would do if the internet stopped working. You ever wonder, like, what will technology look like? Will there actually still be, like, an internet? Or what will it be? I think sometimes I'm like, I worked so hard at Instagram, as do you, right? We're hustlers in the Instagram field.
I'm like, what happens if they take away Instagram? I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. Do I have to learn a new one? You need an email list, that's why. You need that. Yeah, but if, but if the internet goes, you can't email. Oh yeah, that's true. Then we're just SOL. Whoa! So we have all people on our phone? You know your phone makes phone calls? It's weird. I know. It is weird. I don't like to answer phone calls sometimes. Oh. It's so invasive. No, no. No. Only if it's my son or my husband.
Absolutely. Yeah, otherwise I'm like, ooh, don't, uh, text me or leave me an email. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate you and all you're doing for children everywhere. I appreciate you. If you liked what you heard today, share this podcast with your coworkers, admin, or maybe even your partner. And I love getting five star reviews so more people can embrace play. Hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Or connect with me on Instagram or my website, KristenRBPeterson. com. Until next time.