Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Arby Peterson, and maybe your new teacher, Bestie, that is here to hype you up, maybe give you a motivating kick in the pants, and teach you all I know about play and childhood. I am here to help you challenge old and outdated practices and inspire you to create a truly developmentally appropriate early childhood environment that fosters creativity. Curiosity and joy in the Children that you care for.
Let's set the stage for a lifelong love of learning. Let's get going. Jerrica and Jules are with me for the Play Based Learning Podcast. They are from The Connected Child. Welcome Jerrica and Jules. I'm so glad you're here. Tell us about you. Tell us why you're here. Tell us what we're gonna be talking about. Sure. Yeah, I'm Jerrica. I'm Jules. Um, we're really excited to be on the podcast. We, um, formed The Connected Child together. We met as co teachers.
We have been teaching pre K. And we just were very passionate about children and parents and connecting each other. And we realized we could do things in the classroom, but what else could we do outside of the classroom? And so we wanted to put everything out there and just really help families. In whatever ways they needed to. Yeah. Yeah, we really feel like connection is like the special sauce, I guess?
That's like, it connects children to every caregiver, it connects children to their friends, and a lot of times people don't realize what they could be doing intentionally. And that, that parent child connection is always there, underscoring everything. But there's ways that people could be nurturing it, and nourishing it. Cause I think also, like, I know how I feel when I connect with kids, like, it's my favorite thing.
Yeah. And I know that parents are like, like, they just love me and they're like, how do you do this? And I want to show them how they can also have that same connection and have the same looks from their kids that they see them looking at me. And it's about having that back and forth relationship where everybody's benefiting because we're connecting more. Yeah. And it's authentic.
Yeah. Okay, so let's, I like to do a little bit of defining so that, like, everybody's on the same page with what we're talking about. So, would one of you define authentic connection for me? Yeah, I mean, can we roleplay it? Um, absolutely! Okay, there's The barrier to authenticity is the performance. And when adults talk to children in a way where the only answer to their question is yes, like, oh, are you wearing a pink sweater? Wow, that's so cool. And the child is just looking at them like.
Yeah. Yeah. Like, and a lot of times adults are thinking they're meeting their child on their level, but that's really not how children communicate. So it's actually on the adult's level instead. And I think that that's where like the inauthentic miscommunications happen is being on the different levels. I mean, I think for me, when I think of authenticity, especially in terms of a relationship with an adult and a child.
I always want to talk to the child the same way I would talk to anybody else. Yes. Because we are the same. Yes, I would talk to them a little bit differently because of the different ages in the relationship, but I'm never going to talk down to them. I'm going to be genu genuine with them and they are just an equal with me. It's just a relationship together. So that's what, that's how I define authenticity. You talk to them like they're real people. Okay, so, talk to me more about the level.
We have the adult level and the child level. How do we know what the authentic level is? And where we should, where can we, what level can we meet on? Like, how do we find that? Yeah, it's a great question.
Um, I always get down on their level, meaning I kneel down to them, or I'm at least making sure that I'm never like stooping over them, and I'm making sure that I'm eye to eye with them, because that's what we try to teach with kids is eye contact for those who can make eye contact, not everybody does, but that we are it. Engaged in having a conversation. That's part of it. That's how we learn to go back and forth and reciprocate from each other.
Um, it's just and it's letting them have moments to respond Asking a question and then waiting a second and letting them speak and then say oh, yeah I like how you're saying that and repeating it back and making sure that you understand And you're letting them know that you value the information that they've given you.
Yeah, and having it be in real time, like when she's saying pausing for that response, I feel like a lot of people think that they're going to have to run the conversation because they're the adult, or that they have to rehearse the response next and like, not make it awkward with like, dead space, but There's so much silent connection that can happen too, and children are just processing at a different rate.
And so, a pause in a conversation for adults might feel awkward, but for a child, they're thinking of what they actually want to say, and just being in their timeline, in their pace with them. You're down on their level, like you said, not hovering over with that imposing body language. And just Letting it happen and unfold naturally. Well, and it's specifically in play. Yeah, particularly if things are happening in the classroom or even with other kids around them, you're talking to them.
They might get distracted while this is happening over there. Or maybe they're thinking about their answer while also watching over here. And so you have to give them that processing time to be like. Okay, you might have to even ask him again and having that patience where you're like, were you able to figure that out? Or what did you decide? Do you need me to repeat this? It's about going at the child's pace. It's not the adult's pace, it's the child's pace.
And it's always having that awareness that when we're talking together, I can be patient because I am the adult. So what do I need to do to meet them and listen to them? And you're fully plugged in regardless of what is happening. You're fully plugged in to them and you're just being curious. and letting it unfold with no plan. Yeah. Okay. So there's so many, there's so many layers to this that I want to dig into.
So there's the layer that like, we're speaking about this because we have been in play based preschool classrooms and we know that connection and relationships is like the foundation of learning. And. Getting to know those children so that we can provide those opportunities for whole child development and developmentally appropriate practice and all those things. So, um, like we're experts at this in play.
However, the next layer I think to this is there's a lot of people probably listening, maybe who are making that shift, who haven't really gone from complete like release of like traditional teaching methods and maybe are still in that. And I think in those, in those Environments. It is a lot harder to connect with children because you have so many things you gotta get done. You gotta get from the next thing to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing.
And that's one of the beautiful things about play, and why we're advocates for play, is because it allows the time to develop those relationships in the classroom without having to race from thing to thing to thing. So this leads to like the layer of how do we translate that to home and I really feel like it's really difficult.
It can be as, and maybe you have some tips for this, but a lot of families in that I know of that have children, their children are in many different activities outside of school. So there's a lot of running once they leave preschool or childcare. Or school, and there's not, it leads into that, like, we don't have time for this, like, we gotta go, go, go, go, go, go, go. So, with all of those layers, what are your thoughts, like, how, what are some tips that you have?
So, like, say you have a teacher who has a very, they're, they're in a traditional space, they believe in play, and they know that play is how children learn, and they want that time for that connection, but are having trouble finding it. What are your tips for them first and then we'll move into like the over scheduled child outside of school?
I think it's this, it's a lot of the same of whether it's over scheduled or whether there's like, you know, procedures that have to be done in the traditional school setting. It's making the most of the small moments, the prime times where you don't have to throw a party, you don't have to make a bunch of prepared things. You can just have the smallest of moments be the most impactful. It can happen when you're helping a child change their clothes.
It can happen when you're walking down the hall together. It can happen when you're sitting and eating food. It can be anything. It can be across the room. Like, Jerrica always has these little moments across the room with students that I love and I've started to do myself, where you'll just kind of be, like, surveying the room, looking around, checking everything's going well without having to disrupt the play.
And sometimes in that gaze, We make eye contact with a child and they're kind of looking at us thinking why are you looking at me and And even something as small as just giving them like a little wave or like being Like making a silly face or giving a little thumbs up their whole demeanor and body language It's it's honestly insane how much it means to them.
Well, I was gonna say there are two Favorite moments of the day for the kids and for me the first one is When we greet them in the morning, when they come in the classroom, it's the tiniest thing they walk in, I give them a choice of whatever they want. And no matter what choice I give them, almost every single one of them gives me a hug every single day. The other time is right before rest time starts. I go around to every single child and I say, thank you for laying down.
I hope you have a good rest. And they say, I love you and I will always keep you safe. And I do like, it's just because I want them to know, like it's, it's that tiny moment of connection, but they're like, she's taking the time because she loves me. Like, I know she genuinely cares about me. And that's like what you're saying. It can be these tiny things, but that's what they look forward to.
Like there was a time when we stopped our greetings for a little bit because we were just having some issues at the school and the kids would get there and they'd be like, Yeah, what's happening? We're like, we can't stop it, we can't, you know, because it was important to them. It was more important than the other things that we had to do, that we were being told we had to do. We were like, no, this is what we need to do, because this is what is making, yeah, the moments matter.
Yeah, another thing that was like born out of It was born out of lack of resources and time in the classroom. When we have lunch, and there's a million things going on, and there's, you know, water pitchers to fill, we're out of forks, this person's spilling, like, they, people are needing help, I can't open my container, it's a lot going on, and I would have to get things ready while the students are also being autonomous. And so it's kind of like a time when things can bubble over.
And so to buy myself more time to have them engaged, but me being able to run around and help, I started saying, Oh, well, will you tell us what you're eating today? And then everybody got to go around and talk about it. And. I basically did it as like a way to fill the time to hold their engagement while things are kind of in flux, but I didn't have to be sitting down and like reading to them or and being, you know, on stage, and Now they live for it.
Like if I don't initiate that, they say, hang on, we can't start eating yet because we, can we talk about our lunches? And they're so brilliant and like, they're excited to tell their friends. It's a way for them to build connection. I have carrots too, that kind of thing. Like, and it's so simple and it came out of like me being flustered and needing more, like.
Yeah. And they live for it, and it's like, they, they glom onto these things that we think are just so, like, intangible that is impactful for them. Oh my gosh, that's brilliant. I've never really thought of doing that in the program that I founded, the children do bring their own lunch.
from home every day and so that's such a great idea just to like manage them to like just keep an eye on yeah yeah like they they poured themselves out during that time and it's great and they're practicing their public speaking we're learning about their home culture they're showing that they know what's going in their body for like you know learning about their health Yeah, like one week we were talking about like different colors of foods that you eat and how they help your body.
So they were like, I have orange, I have purple, I have green. And so we were like, yeah, that's what we were reading about. So it's connect, uh, connecting. Yeah. Things that we're doing every day. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Um, one thing that I've noticed as a parent of four children that are above, you know, like between the ages of 9 and 18, is that, um, our stupid little computers that we ha that hang out in our pockets all of the time, I think that is a huge huge issue.
distractor for parents and for children. Like I've, I've even noticed it's, it's just, it's like a horrible addiction when you like don't have anything to do or you're just sitting down for a minute to put your shoes on. Like I've noticed my nine year old get out his little phone and like start putting YouTube shorts while he's putting his shoes on.
It's like, No, like we just let's just like talk through our morning and let's and that's something that I know I need to be better as a parent is like Making sure that I'm having those conversations with my children so that they notice like look at what you're doing this isn't a normal human behavior shouldn't be anyways and We need to, like, make sure we're, like, noticing when we're doing that to distract ourselves and, like, just, like, set it down. So, um, okay.
So that, that there brings up the, the conversation of boundaries. So let's talk about what boundaries mean to you, and then we'll talk about it in a school setting and at a home setting. we were just talking about that earlier, where we were thinking about what boundaries. Are not . And that's helpful to define it. It's, I have found it so helpful to say what something isn't in order to get to what it is. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And it's, it's not written in stone. It's not punitive. Mm-Hmm.
. It's not emotional. Yeah. A boundary is an expectation and a promise to follow through. Regardless of what that is, and that's honestly why we feel so passionate about boundaries being a way to alleviate anxiety in children. Because a lot of quote unquote behaviors are stress responses from children. And most adults prefer when they know what to expect. Yeah. And children are no different.
And so if a child is feeling stressed or anxious, And then you can tell them what to expect, even if it's not the most exciting thing in the world. It's not getting ice cream, it's not going to Disneyland, it's just, Hey, in five minutes, we're gonna get in the car and go home. That is so inherently comforting, even if the child doesn't want to leave the park, even if it's, you know, not great news to them, knowing what to expect is so linked to trust.
And that's like our view on why boundaries are more important for the connection, not just discipline. And I think for me, when I think of boundaries in kids, I see a boundary as a pathway. It's helping a child know where to go next, what can I do, what can I not do, what's expected of me. If you don't have any boundaries or expectations, That makes the pathway humongous. So then they're going to try all these different avenues and they're like, I don't know where to go.
And I think sometimes with parents and even with educators and teachers, if you don't have those clear expectations, Kids are going to keep doing things because they don't understand what you want from them or what can I do about this? And so I think you find with teachers who are able to set clear, um, concrete boundaries, their relationships improve with kids because the kids are like, Oh, I know exactly what so and so expects. And so, yeah, I can do this.
And you can have better conversations because you're like, remember, this is the conversation we had about this. Tell me why this isn't working for you because it's just a clear pathway, a clear way to guide children through things. And like you said, boundaries can be flexible, but you both have to be aware of where the line is. Yeah, and you can't keep changing the line. Yeah. You can have a reasonable discussion and then decide.
Or you can say, I understand that this situation is different because of these reasons, but the, the trap to avoid falling into is the five more minutes, five more minutes, just this once. And, and that is honestly very scary to children. And I think that parents feel like they're being like the fun parent or doing something nice for their child, but it is really stressful. In the brain, even if the child is excited to have five more minutes.
Yeah, they're feeling that uncertainty And they are no longer able to count on that adult If they can predict the responses every time from an adult in their life That codes that adult is safe to them. And so really setting boundaries are an act of compassion And we talk a lot about it with our parent clients as unwavering compassion, like you are not changing. And sometimes I'll say, I hear that you're crying, I know that you're sad, it won't change the result. We are still going to blank.
And I'll sit with them in the emotion, and not every child is emotional when faced with a boundary, but We can still be compassionate without changing the outcome. And so you're unwavering in that compassion. Okay, so let's chat a little bit about control versus boundaries. So a lot of the adults, many adults that I've met in my life and people who are in roles that work with children, um, we fall into this control trap and we don't even realize we're doing it.
We don't, and I was that way, and that is very much how our traditional classroom is set up, how traditional schools are set up. Um, we, and a lot of families are set up that way too, like it, it is because I said so, because I'm the adult and you're the child, and it's just a very like top down, you have to do it because I'm, I told you, you have to, I'm, that's it. So, how How do we differentiate between control and, like, healthy boundaries?
And how do we, so if you are the type of person who is trying to release a lot of the control that's unnecessary, how do we, um, like, blend that over into, like, healthy boundaries? Does that make sense? Does it? Okay. I think a lot of times, like you were saying, control is there because a lot of times there's this, like, underlying.
Anxiety level almost that's like I know that I need to be putting a boundary in place I don't know how someone's going to respond to it So the more I can feel in control by putting something into place It's sure to work out and then it doesn't and you're like, okay. Well, what else can I do? Yeah, we have worked with a teacher who? experienced severe anxiety And it became really clear in their tone and the way they were trying to manage their classroom. They only wanted control.
Like, their reasoning was out the window. Their emotional check ins. I was like, you, you don't realize what this looks like. I was like, I can tell that this is making you feel this way. But this is what it's coming off to the kids as you are kind of just making sure every single thing they're doing is control like they were doing some potty training, and they're making the kids go to the bathroom every 30 minutes, regardless if they had to or not. And I was just like, this has to stop.
And so I was like, this is about control. You have to give kids space and time and you have to be listening to them. And so when you find yourself feeling extremely frustrated or angry that this boundary is not working, you might be stepping into more of the control role versus just putting a boundary on. Or if they're, if the kids are constantly having meltdowns, not tantrums, because tantrums are more kids who want control.
They don't like the answers or they don't They can't handle what's going on meltdowns or when kids are really overwhelmed mentally and physically and so you have to kind of help them get through moments. I think you're absolutely right like the the control level when it rises like that boundaries are for children and that control like boundaries benefit children, but that control level only benefits adults, because I think that people use it. I think adults use that those.
extra firm and minutiae level control practices to self soothe when they are overwhelmed. It's no longer about the child. The child could be doing the same thing every day, and however the adult is walking in with their emotional state, they view it as, this is out of control one day, and then the next day they're like, yeah, I feel like playing, and it's fine for them. But the child has actually remained the same, and it's our job to be consistent, not the child's.
And I think it often starts in small amounts, and then as the kids are like, okay, well I understand what to do in this situation, another situation becomes. uncontrolled. And so then it just keeps getting more control and more control and it gets bigger and bigger. And that's when you get into these kinds of situations where all of a sudden it's like, no, we need to do something because everyone is now not feeling good or safe or whatever about the situation.
And that's too, I think a parent could then feel like they have this parent guilt about it because they don't even like it. But it's like, what, how do we go back from this though? Yeah, like I don't I don't know how to release this but also make sure That the kids are doing what they're supposed to, that we're able to get out of the door in the morning, you know, or like bedtime, like bedtime is also hard because everybody's tired at the end of the day.
And kids know, this is my moment where the adult wants something that I have. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Okay. So when, uh, give me some examples of what some good, what setting boundaries looks like in like a play based child centered program. Yeah, sure. Um, so in our classroom, we have a bunch of different centers and we have, um, a certain number of kids that can play in there at a time. It's mainly for a safety rule. Yeah. And so that everyone gets a fair share.
Yes. And, um, the reason, like I said, it's a safety rule. There are times if we see kids, there are more than that many kids there, it's okay. But if we see it starting to become unsafe, then we have to talk about it. So we have a conversation. So it is a boundary, but it's flexible as long as we see everything is going okay. And when we talk about it, we're like, this is why we have this. Because sometimes it gets too There's not enough space.
Yes. Yeah. And it can be accidentally injuring each other just when they're reaching, but yeah. I'm just gonna, just because I'm like, uh, I'm, I'm really like a play based, like, advocate here, so I'm just gonna push back on this just a little bit and say, what would happen if You allowed the children to figure out how much space is not enough for them. Instead of placing that boundary on them. Out the gate. Cause there's, it's, it maybe seems like there is a little control there.
And letting them figure out, hey, I'm not comfortable here. And then using that as a moment to like talk through something. Like, yeah, it seems like there's a lot of kids here. So like, what do you think we could do? And then involving them in it. So, I don't, like that's just my. outsider looking in.
I'm not in your classroom, so I don't know, but just I know that like in this, in the classroom that I had, we never placed limits on who can be where and how many children at a time, because we use that as a learning opportunity. Like it might not feel good to have 17 people around the sensory table. So how can we work through this? Hey, you want to turn when they're done? Maybe come back later. Um, so, okay.
So for, I definitely feel like for safety, Reasons in that, like, okay, say you have a loft, and the weight limit is a certain amount of weight limit, then, yes, absolutely, I feel like that's a safety issue, but, like, as far as, like, maybe we could just, how could you set a boundary on that without saying, oh, only four people here at a time, because there might not be enough space? So, um, I can tell you a little bit more about why we decided to do that.
When I came to the center that I'm at, the teachers were not monitoring any of the kids. And so they were just running around everywhere and throwing everything. And so we tried to be a little bit, bring a little bit more structure to it. But I think you're right. It is very good to have the kids help you solve the problems. That's why when there are more kids, we have them talk to each other to figure out how to take turns. But I think because again, taking turns is another.
thing that can be worked out. You do hit on a really important thing where kids should be included in solving the problems because that is the best way that they're going to learn how to work together and how to solve problems. And when they all understand that you can increase the boundary, you can make it different, that's how you grow communities. It should be responsive to their level.
And like, when we started in this classroom, we have children who are not quite 3 coming in, all the way to almost 6. And so their abilities to advocate for themselves are at a huge disparity. And so, it's It's been kind of like threading the needle for us to make sure that we are putting things in place that support the skill level for self advocacy and communication for the younger students, so that it's not just tyranny from the older students. Um, but I think that it's really important.
To front load those skills and make that the focus instead of just being like, well, it's easier for us teachers to say that, you know, no more than five people here, as opposed to being like, okay, teaching them the skills to have communication self advocacy, a Socratic method of deciding what's going to happen. Those are the skills that need to be raised so that we can take away that external boundary. Absolutely. I like that.
Okay. So I can give you an example though about a bad like, but really so again, our, our playground is not great. And so we started and we kept being told the kids can't go up the slides. The kids can't climb around the sides of it. They can't do this. They can't do this. And so we can't jump off. We pushed back against the boundaries and we were like, This is what we're going to do. That's just what we're going to do. Cause our kids need that.
And so when we were talking to the kids about it, that's when we really did set some of those like safety boundaries. And we were like, yes, you can go up the slide, but maybe we can't jump off the top of it because it's so tall. And so, or there's a metal thing, I think setting boundaries, it's like, what is. Going to be again safety. Yeah, that's probably the biggest reason to set a boundary and Always be asking themselves. Why not? Like, if you're saying no to something, why? Yeah. Mm hmm.
Absolutely. Okay, so this brings up another thought in my head. So as you were talking about the boundaries that are set upon you, and your classroom, and what you can and can't do, how does that feel? You ask a really interesting question at this point in time. Yeah. I guess we can say this now. We are actually quitting our jobs. Yeah. Um, because there have been too many boundaries placed on us. Benign control. Yes. Um, so that's really hard.
But when you, when you have those boundaries placed on you, that's when you need to take action. Because it's just, I mean. At the end of the day, it's about what's best for the kids. Yeah. And I, there's a really good quote that I like that's what's best for children isn't always convenient for adults and that can be true about like, oh, I don't really want to get the glue out because then I'll have to clean it, but it's It's not convenient for me. That's my job.
It's not supposed to be about my convenience. And that's kind of taken on to the next level here where we're like, we are now realizing that we are in a place that is not supportive for children. And so it's not convenient for us to quit our jobs. But in this bizarre situation, it ended up being what's best for the kids. Because of our values, not aligning with the institution that we're at, and ethically, we had to make the really hard decision to say we can't be part of this anymore.
And it's so sad to like, rupture those relationships and how do you even sit down with a child and tell them why? Like that's not even something they can like grasp, but trying to put it in language for them was really hard. But I think that children know when someone is being genuine. And like you said, authentic. Yeah. Yeah. And we've had so much trust with our students that that, I think there's a level of understanding that's kind of beyond what we can talk about with them.
And it's because of the relationships we've built. But yeah, like, our values, and I think most educators are very, very guided by their values. And in this industry, it's really hard and your morals and your values will be tested. And choosing the good of the children every time can be really hard, but it will never eventually steer you wrong. Yeah, because that's something that we, I, we both hold really close to ourselves is just children are first always. And they deserve respect.
And even that's a good thing to keep in mind with a boundary. Is it serving the needs of the child? Yes. I mean, everybody has needs. Adults have needs too. But your decisions need to have children in them. Exactly. If not, who is it for? Or just admit it. Like if you're saying to your child, it's okay to say to your child, Hey, I need five minutes of alone time. Be honest with your child about your own needs instead of like packaging it as like You are too loud. You need to stop.
It's like, I need this time. And it has nothing to do with them. And it's like, okay, perfect. Um, okay. So I want to just like back up just a little bit. And this is a thought that's rolling through my head. So how do you, okay. How as a teacher. So like. So, as adults who's working, you were working in a workplace and those boundaries did not feel good. They felt controlling. They felt like it was, it was just there because somebody said so.
So, with that, how can a teacher or a caregiver or a parent know if their boundaries are stupid, too controlling, too whatever? Um, with their own children, or the children in their class. Because children can probably, I'm assuming, feel the same way as an adult. Like, this is a dumb boundary. This is a dumb rule. I don't wanna, I don't wanna do this rule, so I'm just gonna do something else. Because like, as an adult, that's what I do. I just do whatever that, whatever I want.
Because I mean, I don't, I don't like bowing down to somebody who's telling me what to do, ever. So, um, how, how do we know at what point when we're, like, to, the boundary is turning to control and not serving the child in the best way? I think there's a couple different ways to think about it. You can think about whether it's your need or the child's need. And I really think that all teachers should have mentors.
Because it's someone who knows the industry, and someone who's not in your brain, and those two things are very important. They need to understand where you're coming from, but not be party to the same personal biases that we all have. And so, if you can sit down with a mentor or another person who's in a similar situation to you, and go through and have them gently question you, and be like, Okay, what if you didn't do this? What would happen?
And just go down, like, the Y chain, and frequently, with that self reflection, teachers start to notice that they're, well, because this is a what if, 1 percent chance happening situation. Or it's because of one particular child might do this one particular thing, and then it's like, okay, but we're still hindering 20 other children. If it's for one child, it should not be a whole class rule, and so just kind of going down, and like, it's painful.
Self work and self reflection is not always a picnic, but it's necessary and it's part of the hard work and like the unofficial teacher's oath that we all have. Well, I think what makes it challenging for parents is because they're not around all the teachers, right? Yes. A lot of times I have to remember myself, I'm with kids all day long. So I see behaviors and I'm like, I've seen it a lot. So, but for parents, it's like, Is this how a kid normally is? I have no idea.
It rocks their world, and we're like, okay, it's mine. And so I see what you're saying about boundaries. Like, sometimes it would be hard to know, like, is this too controlling or not? And I think what, what I try to look for is a repetitive response to something. Is the child getting emotional every time this happens? Are they becoming anxious? What's happening? And then kind of diving into more why. Do they just not like it? Or is it not clear enough?
Or is this, are they not actually able to meet this expectation yet? Are they, do they not have the skills to actually do this? Or do I, or maybe do I not have the skills? To know how to communicate to this to this to them. It's about trying to see past that first blockade of the boundary problem. And just trying to see, okay, maybe we need to approach it differently. Just like we have different learners, right? Maybe we have different. Rephrasing of how the boundary works.
Maybe they're like, Well, you said that I can never touch that. You're like, Well, I didn't say you can never touch it. I said, be careful with it. That's them clarifying, which shows us that it hasn't been clear enough. If they feel the need to test with their actions or feel the need to negotiate, when a lot of parents are like, I hate that my child's negotiating. They're clarifying. Or they might be verbally testing. Older kids do that. But it's just.
It's just so important to take it from one step at a time and really being diligent and honest with yourself. And it has to be not emotional. Like, if you are having that conversation with yourself or with a mentor and you feel like your own hackle response go up when they're questioning it, it has to be not emotional. When you're interacting with the kids, it has to be not emotional. I'm not a strict teacher when I'm angry, and a relaxed teacher when I'm happy.
My emotions cannot be part of it, because that is not healthy for the kids. It's not fair. Absolutely. And it's like, it's not that you're not emotional, but you have this like, calm confidence, where you're just like, I'm here, let's do it. Yeah. I'm just gonna stay the same. Like, it's, it's just having that power, not, power is not a good word in this conversation, but you're having that presence. Yeah, that autonomy.
Um, what are some, okay, so, for anybody who is wanting to learn more about these, just all of these things that we've been chatting about, what are some of your favorite resources that you have come across? Any books you've read, any podcasts, any people who talk more about this? Like, what, who inspires you, and who has inspired you in this realm? Um, for me, I love Mona Della Hook. And all of her books about behavior. My favorite book is beyond behavior.
It's brain science and compassionate, um, caring for kids. Like when she, it actually changed how I viewed all behavior with kids because it's a stress response in the brain. Like, I just love her so much. And all that she says, I'm just like, this isn't this, this is what everybody needs to know. We need to stop looking at behaviors as kids. Just being bad or making bad choices or being naughty.
Like we need to know why this is happening, why this happens in classrooms, why this happens at home. If we can look at it as a way, how can we help manage this? It's going to help so much. And she talks a lot about co regulation and how that's how it starts. It starts with relationships. Um, we also, we love Janet Lansbury. She is.
The, the way I always tell teachers that I mentor and parents, the way that she speaks to children and explains speaking to children, she has such an ease with it, but it's also respectful and it's authentic. Yes. But too, it's like the, it doesn't make the parent feel like they have to be weak. It's like you can be confident. And also have this conversation of back and forth. Like you are the boss as a parent.
You make the decisions, but that doesn't mean that you're like an unpleasant tyrant or unreasonable. Yeah, and I think that it's a really universal experience. That like parents often feel like they're really isolated in that they're like my child is the only child who makes this so difficult and like it is just a universal experience of being a child like if a child is not pushing boundaries, they're not learning and growing or maturing. Um, though, we have our resource blog on our website.
And the one phenomenon that I think is the most important to learn about when discussing boundaries. is what I call slot machine brain where a child is just pulling the lever and seeing what happens and it's not personal and it's as addictive as an adult using a casino and gambling like the same thing that makes slot machines successful in casinos is the exact same thing that makes a child want to roll the dice pull the lever over and over and over again because This time it might be different.
But if that flop machine was the same every single time, we'd get bored pretty quickly and stop pulling the lever. Wow, that's a good analogy. I love that. That was a perfect way to package it up. Okay, tell people where they can find, find you. Where can they connect with you? Yeah, connect with us on Instagram. Our handle is at theconnectedchild, but it's with dashes. Yeah, dashes. And our website is at theconnectedchild, with dashes. Also with dashes. Okay. Um, yeah. Amazing.
Well, thank you so much for taking time to be here and teaching us and helping us learn more about boundaries and authentic relationships. Um, I appreciate the work that you're doing with children, so thank you for being here. Likewise. Thank you so much. If you liked what you heard today, share this podcast with your coworkers, admin, or maybe even your partner. And I love getting five star reviews so more people can embrace play. Hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Or connect with me on Instagram or my website, KristenRBPeterson. com. Until next time.