Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Arby Peterson, and maybe your new teacher, Bestie, that is here to hype you up, maybe give you a motivating kick in the pants, and teach you all I know about play and childhood. I am here to help you challenge old and outdated practices and inspire you to create a truly developmentally appropriate early childhood environment that fosters creativity. Curiosity and joy in the Children that you care for.
Let's set the stage for a lifelong love of learning. Let's get going. Welcome to the Playbase Learning Podcast. I have the lovely opportunity to interview one of the most, uh, creative, like, caregivers Program owners that I have ever come across and she inspires me all the time. Her name is Jessica Borowicz. She comes from a program called The Artful Child. And I love having conversations with her.
And so we're going to let you eavesdrop in on a little bit of a conversation about process art and creativity. Because it is so important for children. So welcome Jessica. Thanks for being here. Can you tell us a little bit about you and your program? Thank you, Kristen. Thanks for having me on here.
Um, so I operate two process art schools, art hubs in Toronto, Ontario, and um, I fell into it because it's a family business, and kind of opened it up, it used to be a preschool that was art based, and I opened it up into different art programs for different age groups. So I have afterschool programs, I have an art based preschool, a community drop in where families can come and do art together. So it's really all ages in the early years up to age seven.
And it's just about creativity and self expression and exploration. Okay, so let's define . Let's define a few things because I always love to be on the same page as people. Yes. How do you define creativity? Oh, that's a big one. Cre. Creativity. Well, to me it's a no rules exploration. Mm-Hmm. Of materials. It's a way, it's a way to think. Um, it's not in any kind of box. Yeah. Anything goes. Whatever your, your mind can imagine.
And it doesn't have to be art, I guess creative thinking is, uh, is something that can come out of process art. Definitely. Okay, so let's define, let's define process art. Okay, so process art is... I mean, I think there are different definitions, but to me, it's a form of statistic expression where the emphasis is on the journey rather than the result. Yes. On the creative process rather than the product. Okay. So it's child led rather than adult guided.
Okay, so, in early childhood, a lot of times we go through college and go through our practicums and our, like, early experiences being in the classroom, and craft projects, like teacher directed craft projects seem to be just a given, like that, a lot of times people mistake for art. I know. So, how, okay. Okay. In your opinion, is there any benefit to doing craft projects? Is there a way to balance it, in your opinion? Well, I see there's a difference between crafts and art, in my opinion.
And I think that the difference is... the instructions. So you can put down, you can say at one extreme today, we're making a ladybug and this is how you do it. And this is what it should look like. Um, which to me is super sad. And then on the other hand, you can say, Here's some black circles and some black wire and some white paper plates and put out all the materials and maybe they want to make a ladybug, or maybe someone will make something else and it'll look like modern art.
I mean, it should really be up to the child. So I think, um, if there's, if you have to find a happy medium, put the stuff out there and maybe just refrain from putting an example and let the child discover what they would like to do with it. So there's no right and wrong. Yeah. And that's what we, I mean, that is how.
Okay, so I don't know if you've read this statistic at all, but the World Economic Forum projects that in 2024 through 2027, the number one skill that employers will be looking for is creativity. But creativity is sucked out of children on a daily basis in schools because everything is teacher directed and product based and You know, requires a certain result and assessment based and all of that.
So one of the last ways that we can like hold on and like keep those creative muscles going is by allowing children to immerse themselves in process based opportunities versus us handing down things and saying, here, make yours look like mine. Yeah. It's sad. There's enough comparison as it is. In the world in with youth and if you can give them the freedom and the choice when they're tiny to, to be proud of their own choices and proud of, um, their work and who they are.
And I think if the role of early childhood education is to nurture young minds, then process art is one of the best tools. Okay, so whenever I post anything on my, and I don't know if you find the same thing on your Instagram account, but whenever I post anything about like craft projects versus art, um, I get some people who are like, but my kids love it! Right. What, what do you have to say to those people who are sure that all the children love it? Or even just some love it?
Well, first I would ask them, have they tried? the opposite. Have they tried process art? Because chances are they haven't. And children do love playing with materials and exploring materials. Um, and they don't know that there, there could be a way, there could be, um, a time when they don't have to make this, have this product, have this outcome. Um, they're used to the expectations, so they're going to be happy playing with the materials, I think, um, regardless.
Yeah. But there's so much more learning, I think, in, in the free, in the process art, where they can test and explore and learn about their world. There's so much more in that. It's showing them that there's different ways to view the world. Yes. Okay. And I'm thinking specifically I'm like team free the glue. Um, so specifically like just in that example alone, when children are made, are made to do a craft project to look like somebody else's like traditionally there is.
Uh, a teacher there to guide them and give instructions and the hope generally is that they will learn step by step instructions while they are doing this craft project. But like in my opinion, children can't learn how much is too much glue unless they're allowed to use too much glue. And they're never going to be allowed to use too much glue or too much of anything or too little of anything if there's a specific.
And goal in mind, and a teacher standing over saying, no, like, don't use that, you only need a dot. So it is a luxury for us to be able to say, use as much glue as you want. And I don't think everybody has that luxury. No, they don't. Um, and there are ways to, so for example, when I'm using a squeezy bottle or a spray bottle and I want them to just go for it, no limits. I will water it down a lot.
Even the glue, you can, um, add things to the glue like cornstarch or some kind of filler so that it's still, they're still having the same effect. I, I've never done that, but I know someone else has told me that there is a way that you can make the glue last longer. So there are. Tips and tricks. Yeah. Um, doing that.
And if it's the squeezing out of like, if it's like they're going for the whole bottle of glue, then like just have old glue bottles and fill them with water with a little bit of flour. A little bit of water. Or something. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Send them to a different urinal. That's like white flour and water is a kind of glue. Yeah, it is. I wonder if it would clog. I don't know. Oh yeah. Maybe if you, you'd have to make the hole a little bit bigger.
There's Well, and here's the interesting thing is like I, uh, and I wasn't even like planning to go off on a tangent about too much glue, but, um, um, I have found some of the best learning moments happen when children use too much glue. Like I tell a story all the time about a little girl who made a glue plate and it took over a week to dry. And the whole, by the end of the week, the whole class was invested in it.
Yes. And the other, like we never would have had that experience as a whole class. And even at home, parents were coming back and saying, what's this glue plate everybody's talking about? Like it was, it became part of. And then the glue plate was part of their play. They would use it as a play material. So this 0. 47 bottle of glue lived on for a week. So, like, we can look at it in that way too.
And the other thing I'd like to mention too is when people think, oh, if I just let him use all the glue that everybody's going to squeeze out all the bottles of glue. Generally there's only a handful of kids who are wanting to experience that. And generally after they've done it once, they probably won't do it again. Like, no, that's so true. Yeah. It's just a once in a while thing if you free the glue.
So it's, it's, I think there's some, um, like misconceptions about freeing the glue that we just have to get over. And if materials are like, not At your disposal, then we can find other ways to meet that need. Exactly. Yeah. And water is, is something, I mean, they even love painting with water. Yeah, yeah. On rocks, like it's so fun. Or besides, like, even a wall. Yeah. It can change so much when you use water. Yep. Okay. So what are, oh, did you have more to say on that?
I was going to say that there are other activities that they can, um, be excessive with too, like paper mache and stuff, the sensory activities, they can feel that abundance, you know, there's so many different ways. Oh, I love that. So looking at it in as they're trying to feel an abundance. I've never thought of it in that way and how we can provide other experiences for them to feel the overabundance of a material. Yeah. Cause everything is limited. Everything is limits, limits.
Yeah. Hmm. What are some other ways besides paper mache? Well, the spray bottles are a huge hit. Yeah. On fabric. Okay. Yeah. Um, because it's not going to drip down onto the floor as much as paper, they can just Saturate it. Hmm. I used to do this thing with kiddos. So you can buy these drop cloths in the paint section at different stores. And it's, it's like a drop cloth, but it has, um, they're kind of like puppy pads.
You could probably use puppy pads for the same thing and then just give children pipettes and little bottles of colored water and then watercolor paint. And then have them transfer the pipettes onto the puppy pad. Yeah, it like spreads out. So that would be another example of an abundance because you can just like keep adding and adding and it never drips out of the pad until it's like over saturated. Yes. Mm hmm.
But you can buy really big ones of those in the painting section that kind of, they're not blue like a puppy pad, but they're, they have that plastic backing with like a toilet paper roll also works. I like to put familiar objects in unfamiliar places. So you never really get to play with toilet paper. So putting a toilet paper roll on a tray and doing with the pipettes and it absorbs and it changes its shade. Wow. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
So you could put the puppy pad down and then put the toilet paper on the whole toilet paper roll. Like the roll. The whole roll. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So fun. Okay. If anybody does that, please upload it to Instagram and tag both me and the artful child in it, please. Um, I want to see that. Jessica, now you need to go buy puppy pads. You can find them at Goodwill a lot of times actually. Oh, that's such a good idea. Yeah. Okay. Um, what are some.
Simple ways that providers, educators can use to bring more process art, like baby steps. If they've not done process art in the past and they want to add that in, what are some like simple ways that they can start in the corner and start to do that? So creating a small space I think is the first. Creating an area where you're not, where you're not going to be micromanaging. Yeah. So an area where, um, you feel that they can be free.
I always put down paper carpets, um, so long, like butcher paper or newspaper even, but preferably like a craft paper that's a bit thicker. Make a carpet, three layers, duct tape, as big as your space is, and then you can do the same on the walls. That's brilliant. You can go up as high as you want. Um, and then or fabric hanging from the walls also protects things or you can, there's so many different ways to, to protect that corner.
Yeah. Then, um, like stand back, stand back, let the educators can stand back and just let the children be free in that space. Mm hmm. Put some rich materials there, some unusual materials. Um, and Let the child decide what they want to do. Yeah, it's Think of it as taking a break. Yeah. Observing. Um, the other thing is, um, collaborative projects.
Okay. So, if you, if you want to have the children kind of all work together in one area and it's a chance, it's great for their social development and they can, um, decide what they want to do in a certain space with certain materials. Mm hmm. With again, instructing less, less instruction from, from the adults and more decision making on the part of the children, they're just using different materials as a substitute.
So, um, instead of paper for something you're going to put out, use something different, get them thinking there's different ways to do things like if you have an easel and that's your area for. Art in your classroom, why not put a t shirt over the, a big huge t shirt over the easel and paint on that or an old frame to paint just using unique things is a way to introduce creativity into your room, I think. Sensory activities as well.
Yeah, I think that we kind of forget that like sensory sensory activities are like the original like process based experience for children. Yeah. And so those are fantastic for yeah, there's a million different things you can do and remind you press, like, I think the word art might be intimidating, maybe, yeah, like sensory activities, adults can think of it as. You know, the, the child just mucking about and maybe that helps. Yeah, letting, mm, yeah. And there's so much learning in it.
Sand, water. So much learning in it. Just like a million, yeah, so much learning. Have you, are you a reader? Do you read a lot? I used to read more. These days I haven't read as much as I like to, but I have piles of books. Okay, that's what I was going to ask, is what resources have inspired you? In your work with children or in your own creativity, do you have any inspirations? There's one that I go back to a lot, it's by Ann Pellow. It's The Language of Art.
And it's a beautiful book with a lot of illustrations and photographs in it. Um, it's The Language of Art in Pre Based Studio Practices in Early Childhood Settings. And I, I use it for so many different things. For inspiration, for ideas, for quotes. Um, for encouragement and, um, it's really kind of, it speaks to me because it's what I'm trying to do in my, my spaces. Definitely. I'm pretty sure I have that one on my bookshelf in my office and I don't know that I've ever even like read it.
Oh, Kristen, we'd like it. Yeah. You should open it up and I mean, a lot of it's just affirmation to just validation. Yeah. If you're into process art. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you have any, so I told you a little bit about my blue plate experience and that was like super memorable. Do you have any, do you have any memories that like come to you that are around process art and creativity and nurturing that? Um, I love to think about the children that are hesitant when they're coming in.
Yeah. How the activities that we have in our space, they open up. They open up because they sometimes they can't believe it. Mm-Hmm. , you know, and they walk in and, um, some of the things we're doing, for example, I had a really hesitant child come in. Um, it was the first or second day and we had a, um, like a, I forget the name of it, but it's like a cow skull with the horns and, yeah.
In the water play, and I know you do stuff like this a lot, but because they have never been, it wasn't familiar, it wasn't like one of those conventional spaces that they are walking into and that they're used to, the kind of, the kind of like, just letting them come in and express themselves. To me, I'm always reminded when those children come in and it just makes them forget themselves.
Yeah. Mm. I, I think one of my favorite things too is when children come in and they're like, you know, they've always been taught like scissors are only for paper or, um, you know, like dot, dot, not a lot for glue and, or glitter. Like they have free reign over a glitter shaker and they're like, what? Like. Yeah, I get to use this and they can't believe it. It's so powerful. Yeah. And they can't believe that they can make a mess. Yeah. They can't believe that the focus is not on the mess.
Okay. Let's talk more about that because as adults, we are like, that is, I think a huge holdup for most. Early Childhood Educators that work with, like, they don't want to embrace these process based experiences because of the mess. So, how, maybe speak to how you, like, I don't even know, did you, you probably never really taught in a traditional space because this is a family business. So, like, in your opinion though, like, what? I feel like it's like our own baggage that holds us back.
It's not just that we don't want to have to clean up a mess. It's just, there's so much, I think it's so much deeper than that. What are your thoughts? It's so much deeper and I can see it continuing with the children when they come in with their parents. Because a dot on their finger, a lot of them find that a big deal and they're going to the sink after a year with us. It's like, you know, bodies. It's an attitude. I think it's, it's just a way to train yourself and to train your mind.
It's like, um. It's like when you have babies and all of a sudden you have a huge laundry pile, whereas before it was pristine. Yeah. You just kind of like get used to the idea that this, this is part of it. This is part of this process. Yeah. And, and you have things you're prepared, like you have to have towels and paper, newspaper and buckets and it's part of it. Yeah. And you your expectation can't be to have a. Spotless place, right?
If your value is, if you, if you're understanding the benefits of the process art, then the perfection is, you know, it's besides the point. Yeah. Um, do you let children have self serve to all of the materials or is there certain materials that is not self serve when they need it? A lot of it, I would say 70 percent is self serve. Okay. Higher up are the, obviously the staplers, the fabric scissors, things like that. Um, or if we have something like Indian ink, India ink, Indian ink.
Oh, I know, I think I know, it's like black. Yeah. It's like really pigmented. Yeah, or something super expensive. Yeah, that I'll take out once in a while. Um, those will be up high, but we have our supplies available and on show for inspiration and also it's like it's aesthetically pleasing. So they'll have You know, the beads, the wire, the, the loose parts available to them that they can, um, use if they want to. Do you do seltzer paint? Um, not the big jugs.
Yeah. So the big jugs are, they are on display, but they're higher up. People, they might say, you know, oh, I, I need a blue and then I'll pour it into a little thing for them because the jug is kind of hard for them to pour. But, um, yeah, I don't give them the jugs to, to use. Yeah, we didn't ever do the big jugs either, um, but the cool, I've actually seen programs fill like, um, clear ketchup bottle type things from like restaurant supply stores with all the different.
Colors of paint and then children can squeeze them out into smaller containers. Yes. So I've seen that and that's worked well for some programs. Yeah, they love that. To feel like they're getting their work, their area ready too. Yeah. And also if they're part of the cleanup, if they're part of the mess and if you have a small sink in your room or, you know, soapy bucket, they can put the brushes in the bucket. They can put the towel in the hamper.
Um, they can, if, if something gets really like once someone painted a chair, um, and we don't really paint the chairs. So we put, we put the chair in the water play and they washed it with a, with a brush and soapy water. Amazing. Yeah. Oh, that's a great idea. Less kind of becomes part of the program. Yeah. Okay. So for, um, okay. I'm trying to think like still baby steps for like people who are starting out.
So like, my advice would be, you know, don't add glitter right away, maybe, or like things like that. Okay. And explode. Um, so like starting small. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Like this. Starting small might be wires and beads. Wire is so great. Okay, I never did that with the children in my program. I don't know why. Wire is amazing. They can use it in so many different ways and it's not a mess. There are things that if mess really makes you anxious.
You can do things that don't, you know, you don't need to worry about. So why are, you can be, you can take some of the animals and they'd like to wind the wire around the animals. Just make sculptures with the wire. Tin foil is another amazing thing. They never get to use tin foil. And tinfoil and scissors and tin. There's so many different ways to use different materials that are not gonna spill over onto the floor. Right. There's plenty of things like that.
Okay. But as soon as you said scissors and tinfoil, my teeth started to hurt Well, they don't need scissors for tinfoil. They can rip it. That's so true. And fold it and scrunch it. It's so true. Oh, what are some, um, do you have any like. Okay, so I I've gone down like holes on Instagram before for like adult artists who are doing really cool things Okay, so like there is Um, those printmaking, uh, like stamp sets.
So it's like this rubbery material and then you have like this little carving tool and you carve out designs and then you Yes. Paint on it and, and do that. Or there's a thing called gel printing where you have like this slab of gel. I don't know what it is, but then like you do like a thin layer and then you make prints. Is there any experiences like that that you see that's most, you know, made more for older children or adults that you've brought down to young children that has worked well?
Yes. So stencils. Um, it sounds product based, but the stencils, um, so you know how you can get a stencil for decorating your home or, um, doing different t shirts or whatever. So, but for a child, you can give them a roller and put this in a tray of paint and put the stencil on the paper and they are flabbergasted. So they roll it, they roll it, and that's, they get absorbed in the process of just rolling on this.
This thing, this image, then when you, when they take it up and they can see the result, it's so fun. They just love it so much. They might do 10 of them. Yeah. Where do you get your stencils? Oh, I've gotten them at paint stores. Um, yeah, different, yeah, mostly paint stores. I think I find them in, there's so many different ones and obviously the early childhood catalogs. Yeah. Okay. Another question for you.
So when I mean, so we're, it's very process based and like child, we want children to explore the materials. Is there any points where you use direct instruction to teach them specifically how to do something or use something? What does that look like for you? When we're using tools, um, we, like processor can be mindful too. So it can be, you know, here's, have you ever used watercolor before? This is, this is how you do it.
This is, How it turns out, um, very beautifully if you add water and then you wet your paper, so we show them the way, or if we have a hammer and nail, for example, for a little older, for the little older ones, um, we'll show them how to carefully hold the nail and use the little hammer, um, glue guns are a great example, we have them in a lot of our videos.
Actually, in every program for the ones that want to, um, and we show them before they use it, what's hot, what's not, how to use it slowly. And like watercolor pencils, things that, that will help them explore it better. Yeah. Okay. I like that. I get that question a lot. Like how much do you teach them on how much do you let them explore? Like where's that balance? So yeah, Yeah. And that can just be a few seconds of like, have you ever used a roller before?
This is, this is like just, you know, holding their hand over it and just showing them the motion and they get it in two seconds. Mm. Yes, they do. They're so, they're like so capable. They're so smart. Okay. Do you have any last thoughts? No, no, I don't. Okay, I have a question though. Tell me something in your work with children, over however many years you've been working with children, tell me something that has really surprised you that you have learned in your work with kids.
Something that has surprised me? They're competent. Like, they're, they're competent. Like, they blow me away. I do the amazing things that even two and a half year olds can create when you give them the time and the space. Yeah. Time is huge. Yeah. And they are really all artists when they have the time. You don't have to tell them to make a ladybug because they're going to make something way better than a ladybug.
Yeah, I, they are, um, and they do, and I think that pointing out, like, let's leave people with that, that they need time to explore. You can't do, you can't implement process art, like. In 10 minutes in 15 minutes, like, because that's adults, even like if we know if I know I have a meeting and a half an hour, I'm not going to start something new because I know I'm just going to be taken away from it and my brain is going to have to shift.
So the same is true with children, they understand that and they're not going to. If they know typically that they only get 15 to 20 minutes of playtime every day, they're not going to immerse themselves in something deeply because they know that it's just going to be snatched right out from underneath them in a few minutes. So time is so important. How long did the Children have to explore in your program? Generally, it's two and a half hour. Well, for our preschool, it's two and a half hours.
But I think we have to emphasize that it's uninterrupted time. Oh, yes. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. The adult is constantly Um, they're taken out of their imaginary bubble and it turns, it goes from active learning into passive learning again. Like if you're constantly saying, Oh, what color is like, just, I don't know, the silliest, if they're interfered, if they're being constantly interrupted, they have to go back to the square one.
Yes. Yeah. So, two hours, um, to two and a half hours is ample time. Yeah. Like, you always say, Kristen, they window shop first. They do. They do window shop first. They want to see all the things that they have available to them, and they really need to, like, have time to construct an idea in their head. Like, creativity takes marination. It does. Right. You know, and sometimes it hits you like that, but other times you need to, like, you know, immerse yourself in other things.
Yeah. To be able to, like, have that brilliant, like, direction of, like, oh, I'm going to start this and then see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. So true. Yeah. So give children time. Lots of it. Yeah, yeah. Where can people connect with you? Where can they find more of you? And do you have anything fun going on that people should know about? They can connect with me on Instagram, at The Artful Child. Um. I'm on Facebook, but I'm not a big Facebook, I'm not a big Facebook presence.
It's mostly Instagram or, um, you can contact me through my website. Okay. What's your website? Um, theartfulchild. ca, www. theartfulchild. ca. And um, I am in the process of creating a digital course. The first one is for educators or people that work with children. It's called... It's called Powerful Learning, Enchantment in Early Childhood Spaces.
Ooh. And um, it's to empower people working with, people working in early childhood environments to transform conventional spaces into standout environments. Oh my! Yeah. That sounds amazing. Yeah. Where children can learn with all their senses. I'd love that. That's gonna be a hit. It's hard to find a name for that. You, you nailed it though. You nailed it. Oh my gosh.
Okay. Thank you so much, Jessica, for being a creative inspiration to all of us and for letting us follow along on your journey, on your insight. It is truly a pleasure and a privilege to be able to have you on this podcast and share your knowledge with the world, because I feel like you have so much to share and people need to know who you are. So connect with Jessica on Instagram at the artful child or the website, the artful child dot C a and C a must down for Canada. I guess so.
Yeah. So I figured that out. Yeah. Must. Interesting. The internet is so wild, isn't it? So weird. All right. Thank you so much. Of course. Thanks, Jessica. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. If you liked what you heard today, share this podcast with your coworkers, admin, or maybe even your partner. And I love getting five star reviews so more people can embrace play. Hit follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. Or connect with me on Instagram or my website, KristenRBPeterson. com.
Until next time.