Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I'm your host, Kristen Arby Peterson, and maybe your new teacher, Bestie, that is here to hype you up, maybe give you a motivating kick in the pants, and teach you all I know about play and childhood. I am here to help you challenge old and outdated practices and inspire you to create a truly developmentally appropriate early childhood environment that fosters creativity. Curiosity and joy in the children that you care for.
Let's set the stage for a lifelong love of learning. Let's get going. Welcome to the Play Based Learning Podcast. I am Kristen R. B. Peterson, and with me today, I have my friend, Ade Hoffman, all the way from the wilds of Maine, here to tell us all about, and talk with me all about outdoor play. clothing that goes along with outdoor play. Okay, so before we, like, dive into that, tell us a little bit about you and what you do.
Well, hello. Uh, I'm Abe. I'm chiming in from Maine, as Kristen mentioned. Um, I have been in early childhood for, like, over two decades, which is crazy. Um, I've spent the last seven and a half ish years, um, Leaving all my traditional teaching behind and I like people I traded fluorescent lighting and for sunshine. Oh, I love that. Totally dove in like full, full force into the outdoors not knowing what to do. Um, just kind of figuring it out as I went along.
And, um, I've been doing that since I moved to Maine, uh, and I'm about to open a program of my own. So that's very exciting, Nature of Places. Um, and I can't wait. Um, so the littles are my people, two and a half to six. Um, I've worked with kids up to eight years old, but the younger half are my people. Laughter. Oh, I'm so excited for you. Those children are so lucky that they get to be with you because you have so much knowledge. I can't wait to meet everybody.
Like you just, I just love listening to you speak about how you can be a great observer and just intentionality in teaching in the outdoors with children and Like, those families are going to be so lucky. So congratulations, like, huge step. Okay, so let's chat about outdoor clothing. So you, you've probably heard the saying and maybe you've said it yourself, I don't know. There's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing or some form of that. Um, so well, first you find that to be true.
Yeah, for the most part. It's kind of like harsh and oversimplified, but Right. And I like, I hesitate to use the words like inappropriate and appropriate, but it's I mean, you don't know until you know, so gear can be one of those things where it's a hurdle for people. It's expensive. It's a cost and it's an investment for sure. And a lot of programs may not have the resources and families might not have the resources to like fully outfit their kiddos.
So I like to tell people like, just meet yourself where you're at, um, where you are and just have extra clothes. Like you can have crappy clothing, like you could be wearing like leggings and sneakers and regular socks and be wet. But if you have a gear and towel, like spare clothing in your car or whatever, you're right, you're prepared.
So like, yes, there is like idyllic conditions and things that you can accumulate over time to have like a wonderful library of gear that will keep you warm and dry or cool. And What? I don't know. Cool and refreshed? Yeah, refreshed. Cool and aired out? Yeah. Properly circulated, whatever you want to call it. But you don't need to start by spending like hundreds of dollars. You can just have extra clothes and a towel.
Okay. I think that's like a really great place to start for people because it can be very, very intimidating. Yeah. Well, okay. And, and to add to that, living in Minnesota, like there absolutely are days where it is unsafe to be outside for any, um, like an amount of time over three minutes. Right. So, like, I see that. There are also times where The weather gets so incredibly hot in southern areas, like places that are closer to the hemisphere, maybe, um. Or the equator. The hemisphere.
Like, we're all close to the equator. Like, southern states, if you live in the United States. So, like, it can get incredibly hot to the point where it's not safe to be out for prolonged periods of time. I mean, there's things you can do, definitely. But, so, I agree with that saying, somewhat. But also, I feel like that saying, again, like, you were saying it also, it's really not... inclusive when it's just like blanketed like that as a statement. So, okay.
So let's talk about maybe some, um, strategies or things that you've done in the programs that you've been in and taught at that help those clothing, um, the gear to be more inclusive of all children, no matter what background they come from or what they have access to any tips, tricks. Anything. Yeah, so when we started our homeschool support program in 2021, like, we had literally nothing. We had nothing. We had.
We only had the money that we raised at a tag sale before we opened and that paid for our insurance. So we didn't have like any funds to, you know, let, like buy all this brand new gear or have like even like a rental system. So what we did was we knew that our local thrift store and consignment store often got Great snow suits, uh, rain suits and things like that.
So we created an account with them, um, and we got discounted your through them, that was like preloved and it's, you know, not going to take stuff. That's not really suitable for reuse. So that was a safe bet for us. And then we encourage families to take their gear either there to do an exchange so that they didn't have to spend a lot and they could just get a size, especially with rain boots, like bogs and stuff.
They can be a little pricey, um, but buying a used pair is great because kids, they move, they move so fast. They move so fast. They move so fast. Yes. Um, so. Forming a relationship with like the consignment local consignment shop and thrifting was really helpful for us. And then we would just like use the money in our account. To buy and then build a gear life lending library.
Yeah. And, um, in addition to that, we would host at all of our potlucks, we would have seasonal potlucks, um, a gear exchange. And so all the families would bring anything they had doesn't matter what season and then we just like lay it all out over the yard on a tarp, and they would just families who just take what they need. And then there's like, there's no exchange of money. It's just the community thing.
Um, and then whatever was left over and was like in good condition, we would keep and build to build our gear lending library. So that was how we got a good chunk of stuff to lend just by leaning on our community families that we knew from former, um, Like former classmates or former students and things like that. Um, and we just continually asked for donations, um, which is very, very hard.
I mean, I'm in this season of asking for help and it's like my least favorite thing to do, but it's the most effective way. To really build community and ask for help and keep that connection really tight. So I encourage anybody who is in a position that's wanting to build a gear lending library to just ask. Ask people around you in your neighborhood, in your church, wherever you are. And people want to help. They do want to help with no money. Yeah. They absolutely do want to help.
Yes. And it feels so good. Yes. It feels so good for everybody, right? You know that you're like kind of giving its new life to this piece of gear that You know, would maybe just lay in the closet for all the time. Exactly. Yes. So I think that like the, cause we were, the program I founded is a nature and nature preschool and has a forest school program.
So gear is really important, especially, I mean, and you know, to living in Maine, it's very important in the winter time to be warm because you want children to be comfortable when they're outside. You don't want them to have discomfort because then that their relationship with nature and being outside can be tarnished so it is important for them to be warm and comfortable.
So, um, we had, uh, we were located in a church, this is just another like tip for people, you can, I mean, we would ask the members of the church say, Hey, we have, you know, some children who, um, can't afford to have the, like, clothing that's going to keep them super warm and dry in the winter months. It costs on average about this much to outfit a child from head to toe for the winter. If anybody wants to donate and sponsor a child's outdoor clothing for the season, like, let us know.
And we used to get people who would donate. For that and say, yeah, I'll outfit a child. Um, so that was one thing that we did and it worked really well. Another thing we did. It sounds similar to maybe what you did is, um, we had families like we just said, Hey, if you're not, if you, your child grows out of something and you don't want it anymore, you can either like donate it, um, to the preschool and we'll add it to our, you know, Okay. Like lending pile or you can like sell it.
Like if you want to put a price on it and put it in the entryway, um, then like, you know, we had get recommended prices that were fairly inexpensive, like, you know, half what they normally would have purchased it for. If it was in good condition and, um, families really appreciated that even to have the opportunity to buy something from a child that they outgrew. So yeah. And children love wearing stuff that from someone that they know.
Yeah. It's like this like incredible, sometimes like a confidence layer. It's incredible to like know that I've seen kids. I'm trying to think of examples. So we had this one child who was with us for many years, and then obviously I'll grew a lot of gear on his mother was a teacher, a support teacher and so like she would say, Oh, like that was like that used to be his name was finian is finian.
That used to be Finian's rain, those used to be rain, Finian's rain pants and the children were like, Oh, Whoa. And like, they'd be like, Oh, and they'd be like empowered to do the things that they knew that Finian did. Like he's an outrageous climber, like incredible, naturally gifted climber. And so they kind of got this like, Ooh, this like boost of confidence. And I just was like, this is so cool. Oh my gosh. I love it. Think of it. Yeah. A confidence layer. That's amazing. I love that.
So neat. Um, for sure. And I, I, yeah. Oh, okay. How many to being specific about like you mentioned how much it costs per child is very like key to getting like financial assistance from other people because they want the details. They want those kind of pieces of information to kind of solidify their choice to support you. I've noticed. And the folks at Outdoor School Shop are incredible. We received their grant this year to outfit our kids, mostly, um, from Vela.
And so we're using half of it for other stuff and then half of it for just having gear. Everything but base layers and socks essentially for each kid. Um, but what's really cool about that is you can start like a rental program. Um, but and all of that, but outdoor school shop will work with you from like beginning to end. They will work within your budget. If you have to spend per child, they'll work with you on your preferred brands.
I mean, if you've been in the game a little while you have a preferred brand, right, right. And they'll help you find what you want and what you know works for yourself and your program. I highly recommend them and they have bulk pricing over five items. So that's like very minimal. Wow. So if you need six pairs of rainproof mittens. You're going to get pricing applied to that, which is really awesome. So I'm happy to plug them. They're incredible. They're female owned business.
They're all moms. They're so awesome. Oh my gosh. I try to talk to them like every week just because I love them. That's so cute. Okay. Yeah. Let's, um, throw out some of your favorite, like your favorite brands that. You know work well in your program. Um, C'est la vie is on the lesser expensive side. It's c e l e v i I think. Okay. Their little logo is like a little elephant. You can even get them on amazon.
Um, They're less expensive for rain pants So on insulated rain pants, they have rain boots and they have like wool balaclavas and hats and things. So that's a great place to start for not as much money. Yeah. Didrickson's is my absolute favorite for the fleece lined rain gear. And here in Maine, you can wear that like 80 percent of the year because spring, it still snows in spring, um, and it's the mud and the water is cold.
Um, so we fly in to rain gear from didgeridoo, didgeridoo is really great. Um, and, you know, rain mittens and all of that, you can get them insulated or not insulated. Um, and Boggs boots for sure. They have a wider ankle and so they're easier for kids to get in and out of. Yeah, they are. I don't recommend mucks. I mean, I wear them as an adult, but for the kids, like they can never get their feet out on their own. Um, so Boggs for sure, um, are my favorite, um, brand for boots.
Yeah. Thank you. And like for discounts, highly recommend babyshop. com. Uh, Alex and Alexa, I think is the name of the site. Heavy discounted stuff. Um, The brands are just trying to clear out their collection. And it's super discounted. They have great sales. But Outdoor School Shop, too, has great prices. And again, you can utilize the bulk. Um, like pretty quickly. That's really cool. Um, so we're in Minnesota where we have to be covered for snow most of the year.
So snow pants, the brand that we actually recommend to families is Land's End, um, Land's End Squall. That's the, it's the squall snow pants and squall jackets, squall parka. So that's what we recommend a lot because they have like the grow with me, um, sleeves so that the sleeves can extend a little bit, which when you're playing in the snow, you want to make sure that your wrists are covered.
Um, and then we have found favorite mittens for snow play are Burton mini heater mitts, they're called. Um, and like we go through so many mittens in Minnesota. And so like, Every child is required to have two pairs of mittens when they come into the school that I founded because They play outside in the morning and they get wet and then they need another pair for afternoon.
And so Anyhow, the the Burton mini heater mitts, they're mittens Um, and they, the elastic is really stretchy, so it can like stretch over the top of their sleeve of their jacket, which is super important, because then snow doesn't get in between the cracks. Um, and they're easy for kids to get on themselves, because the elastic isn't very tight. But it's tight enough that snow can't get in. So that's what we found for snow pants, jackets, mittens. Yeah. And bogs.
But bogs here in Minnesota, even like the ones that are rated as cold, the coldest, your feet still get cold. So you for sure need a wool sock with it. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm anti cotton unless it's like 90 degrees. Um, I like, I recommend wool all year and by the time it's too hot for a wool sock, they can feel barefoot. Um, so it also wicks the water away and we use so many toe warmers. Um, yeah. Yes, we use toe warmers, too. So many toe warmers. Yeah. Yeah, and like, don't be afraid.
Like, I went through this whole phase, like, my first couple years of teaching. Like, I'm so wasteful. I'm throwing away all these disposable. And I tried to use, like, the reusable ones, where you have to boil them. No. Do not recommend zero stars. Um, just lean in to like the disposable ones. It's going to make your life easier. Um, and like, just say yes. When a kid thinks they need them, just give them to them. Um, because otherwise they're not, they're one going to be afraid to ask you.
Um, and two, they're not going to really learn like what it feels like to have them when they don't really need them. Yeah. So, um, we always say yes. They start asking for toe warmers at like, in like October. And then like by February, like they're just like, so conditioned to being outside that they kind of forget. Yeah. They even need them. So it's interesting to watch that kind of progression. Where do you buy your toe warmers and like, do you have a budget for that? I do this year. Do you?
Oh my gosh. I do. I put them on our wishlist. Um, it's always on our donation list. And a lot of families just buy a pack when they're out and about. Um, our kind of go to store here is Rennie's, and they're always everywhere, so they just grab a box, um, and they just leave them in the hall for us, and we go through them crazy. Um, but you can get them in bulk on Amazon, I mean, you can really get them anywhere.
Yeah. I don't have a trick for them, and they're like never on sale, but it's like the best money you can really spend. Kids in Minnesota like to use them in their mittens too. Yeah, we sometimes also use, like, those little miniature hot water bottles, like the rubber ones. And we pour warm water in there, and, like, we stuff it in their rain pants, so, like, their core is warm. Um, and, like, I've had parents sew little, like, wool sleeves from old sweaters. Yeah, yeah.
Inside there, um, and then they just, like, we just plop them in their rain, in their, whatever, in their bibs. And then they just stay there all day, and they're, especially when they're napping outside, it's a nice little thing to have. And then they wake up like little baked potatoes. They're like a hundred degrees. Oh my gosh. Um, but that's a really sweet thing way to keep warm as well. Oh, um, okay. So let's talk a little bit about the rental program because we you mentioned it.
We used to have one. Tell us like what your vision is that for your new program. Yeah, so I haven't implemented it yet, but my hope is to have it be like a very minimal cost to have everything you need for the whole year across all the Um, I mean, summer here, everybody just wears what they want to wear. Um, we don't really have gear. I go back and forth between having them wear rain pants for tick protection.
But they just get so hot in the summer, so we just do frequent tick checks and things like that, and we just spray, um, for the kids. But, um, my hope is to have it just be like a super inexpensive addition for the whole year. It's not like 40 a season, it's 40 for the whole year. You'll get a, yeah, you'll get a snowsuit, uh, rain mittens, snow mittens, snowsuit, um, or insulated rain gear, and boots. And then all the families will be able, um, responsible for is base layers.
So a wool base layer, a fleece layer, and socks, hat, balaclava, we'll have all that extra stuff anyway, because we've been collecting it forever. Yeah, yeah. We've got it. Um, but I wanted to try to ease that, like, financial burden on people, because it is It's a lot plus a lot of the sizing is European and it's like what I don't even know what's happening That's how we got a lot of our extra gear is like parents ordered the wrong size And It's a pain in the ass to return it. Can you take it?
I'm like yeah, I'll take it You know Sends them to European websites now so they order the right size. That's the trick. . Um, but for sure, um, the whole like point there is to really just like take some of that off of families because yeah, they have a lot to think of anyway outside of just getting their child organized and we. offer and highly recommend to just leave all the gear there at the end of the day and then we'll take care of it.
If things need to be dried overnight, we'll turn them inside out. If they're still damp in the morning, we'll pop them in the dryer for five minutes. That's a nice, that's so nice for families to not have to deal with that. Yep. So we've got boot dryers and things like that. Um, so, you know, I, we really want to take that whole piece out of it for families so they can really just enjoy and like ease into what.
You know, the joy is are of being outside all day, um, for their children instead of being like, oh, get him, get your right pants ready. You know, like frustration because it, it's a, it's a thing. It's a real frustration for a lot of families because it's a lot of moving parts. But for us, I'm.
It's, it's just, it's habit and routine, like I can, I feel like I always say this, I wish there was like a game show where you could win lots of money for knowing whose mittens are whose with no labels, because I feel like I could win. I could totally win. You could totally win. Um, uh, we're also knowing like which baby pooped. By just the smell in the classroom, like early childhood educators are so good at that too. A unique set of skills that we have. Oh my gosh.
Okay. Um, so the rental program we have, quickly, was, um, they could rent mittens. And rain suits and boots, winter boots for the whole year. Um, so I think it was 15 each cause sometimes they don't want to take advantage of every single one of those things. So otherwise, yeah, like 40 bucks or something like that for the, for it all, all three. Things but then it was so nice.
Mittens are a huge hassle in Minnesota because like they have to have so many and then they lose the it's just it's a thing. So and also when you have 20 to 25 children all wearing different kinds of mittens and gloves.
That is also can be a source of frustration for the teachers because like Some of them don't fit over sleeves and some of them don't actually go over sleeves and some of them go under sleeves and some of them are gloves and the kids can't figure out how to get their fingers in all the holes. And so, um, mittens, that was like the biggest piece that took a lot of stress off of parents and the care, like the teachers in the, in the space because they're all And it's so nice.
And then we have a mitten dryer, too, that we pop them into after the morning so that they're dry by afternoon. Okay. Talk to me about, um, an idea that you have that living is learning. Tell me what that means. And... Like, like why that is important to you?
Um, that notion of living and learning has been very helpful for me to kind of take myself out of children's play and kind of experience Um, you know, being a great observer and observing is like my other thing I love to talk about and living and learning motto is kind of like a reminder, like, no matter what we're doing, we're learning. We could be filling up a cup and we're learning. We're developing fine motor muscle development and. Thank you.
You know, spatial awareness and all this, all this kind of stuff, um, we're learning about volume and we're not even thinking about that. So, you know, that's just living, um, getting a grasp on a heavy tea kettle is hard work. Yeah, they're learning how to do that and how to move their muscles to kind of support the weight. And, um, so I just, I really started to see when I was observing more and more and talking less and less. I noticed that every single thing that we do.
Together or apart is learning. Um, you know, we all like if you're here, you already know that play is learning, but like Brushing your teeth is learning. Trying to figure out how to get your boots on is learning. Figure out why your coat isn't staying on your hook is learning. Like every little thing is learning and that's just living. We're just living. And so, um, I, you know, people are like, well, what do you do? And you just play all day. I'm like, we live together.
We meet all of our like basic needs. We eat, we sleep, we go in the bathroom and we just explore like, and we just love on each other because that's what we need to survive. Um, Um, it's just been like, this is a really great model for me to just keep myself on track because it's inevitable. We've been programmed for hundreds of years that like, we're supposed to do this all wise and knowing, you know, educator, like I know all the things and it also helps me to share with children.
Like, I don't know the answer. Let's figure it out together. Like, Oh, that's a great question. I wonder. I wonder about that. Uh, what can we do to figure out the answer. Yeah. And sometimes we still can't figure it out and then we have to ask somebody else or we just have to wait and then like over time like, Oh, remember when we didn't understand why the ice looks like this. Like I noticed now like it's colder or warmer or whatever.
So yeah, the notion is really just to embrace really being in the moment and getting away from this product driven way of being with children and really lean into the process and um, being together. Like very simple. Yeah, it is. Isn't it? Yeah. Very simple, but it's the most, it's the most powerful way to be with children.
I said last night, um, we had a zoom meeting and I had said at one point, I was like, you know, I realized how much time and energy I put into making sure the kids were having fun when like, if I just took myself out of it, they're fine. Like I don't need to make them have fun. I don't need to orchestrate the fun. I just need to like be there and you know, smile at them, give them a thumbs up and just like. Yeah. Show them that I trust them, that they're doing the right thing.
Um, it's, it's very, it's been very powerful. Yeah. So living is learning is just basically be here now. And like, you know, you know that I strength train and I write that at the beginning of my page every morning at four 30 in the morning, right. Be here now because I don't want to know what's happening next. I want to think about what's happening or happened on the way to the gym or to school. I want to be here now. Like this is my bubble. This is my sacred space.
Um, and like the space that we share with children is it's a stage for their learning. It is not an opportunity for us to project anything else on them. That was beautiful. That's beautiful. Beautiful way to put it all. Okay. Tell people where they can find more of you aid, how they can connect with you and anything cool you got going on. Sure. Um, I do have a gear guide that I wrote and it's for littles and big, so adults and children.
Um, and I talk about layering and the different reasons why you need to layer differently in seasons, lots of recommendations for brands, where to get this kind of gear. All that kind of stuff. Amazing. Um, so I can share that link with everybody? Yeah. We'll put it in the show notes for sure. Yeah. Um, so there's that, that's very pertinent. And you can find me on Instagram. I am on Facebook. Not, I would never check it. I know. I have like, never check it. I've just kind of there.
They're linked. Um, but if you really wanna get a hold of me, please just either get on Instagram or email me Nature play all day at Gmail and um, we can connect that way. Um, but right now my biggest focus is getting this program off the ground, um, and bringing something to my local community, um, that hopefully will last a very long time. So that's what I want to do. Do you have a place where like a wishlist of where people can go to support your program at all? I do.
Um, in my bio on Instagram, I have a link to the, our Amazon wishlist. Um, yeah. And we're doing like a local recycling fundraiser here. But Amazing. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you so much for being here and being an advocate for children and outdoor play. Of course. It's always so nice chatting with you and yeah, hook up with aid on Instagram nature play all day. Um, thanks for being here. Aid. Thanks for having me. Have a good day, everybody.
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