The Matriarch Speaks

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

get your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine, the

acclaimed dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's like a ghost. We had an agreement to keep each other's secret. None of you were making decisions to keep the rest of us safe, which leaves me I'm asking for your forgiveness. After Shock season two, starring Sarahween, Kelly's David Harbor and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Listened to Aftershock on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It was perhaps the first time George White to the fourth heard his mother's voice in the four years since the family was arrested. And you think that my funded yes, how you editively? No? I want the truth from you, Okay, did something happen? You can see her attempting to fool you know, everyone involved in this. Let's face it, We've got eight dead bodies, four separate locations. How in the world do you think that you can escape that this

is the Pike and massacre. Returned to Pike County season four, episode four teen, the matriarch speaks. It's important to note that George Wagner the fourth has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. In the previous episode, we heard about how law enforcement came to view the Wagners as suspects and the murders of the Rodin, Manly and Gilly families. Before

it was suspicion and things weren't adding up. Lead investigator Ryan Schierer says that changed about a year after the homicides when BCI agents matched spent shell casings at the Wagner's home in Peebles. Based on that, ballistics evidence agents used search warrants to take deep dives into mobile devices used by George Wagner, who's on trial for murder his

brother Jake, and their parents Billy and Angela Wagner. After originally preparing to intercept the Wagners in North Dakota, investigators had to scramble to intercept the family at another Canadian border entry point. The Wagners were house hunting in Alaska. As they returned, agents intercepted them at the Canadian border a year after the murders. Now Wagner is accused of helping kill eight members of the Rodent and Gillie families.

Investigators detained the Wagners and placed each member of the family in a separate room. At this time, I believe you indicated that you were going to interview them as suspects instead of your prior contacts with them. Correct The gigs help They knew we were looking at them. While the Wagners were in custody, agencies to laptop and an iPad from their vehicle. Law enforcement also placed listening devices

in the Wagner's SUV and bug their phones. Upon cross examination, John Parker from the defense brings up the quality of the audio obtained from the bug the agents placed in the Wagner's vehicle. There's really nothing useful that came from those listening devices on the vehicles at Paris. I did not work as well as we hoped. Correct, right, There was nothing useful data correct, The quality of the audio was less than desirable. There was nothing useful game correct.

Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local twelve. And as it turns out, that was kind of a snap foo too because the road noise drowned out anything they could hear. They really didn't get really much of anything out of that except you know, when everybody came out. They came out one at a time

and they sat there and they didn't talk about anything. Normally, if you're innocent and you're pulled over and all of a sudden you get out of a four out or interview, you're going to be asking your family members what the heck is going on. None of that. Nothing was hurt like that on those recordings. Because of the rush to set up in Montana as opposed to North Dakota, agents weren't able to videotape the interviews since the bug in

the vehicle did not pick up usable audio. The audio recordings of the interviews at the Canadian border, where all the investigators had you interviewed Jake. Is that correct, Yes, myself and special agent Maltered. Okay, and do you recall how long that interview loves, approximately four to six hours.

Maybe it's a long yes, And Judge, we would ask that we'd be allowed to play Jay Zone to At this point, the prosecution of Jack's and Judge Dering instructs the jury to leave the room for a fifteen minute recess. Judge Jarring asked for the prosecution and defense to present their arguments on whether Jake's taped interviews should be played for the court. Just the plane reading of evidence, Rule eight O one says that the co conspiracydent is attributed

to the defendant. There's a lot of talk of rule eight to one, but the gist of it is that the defense cannot introduces evidence another co conspirator's testimony during cross only the state is allowed to do that. That's the whole nature of the co conspiracy. So they all denied it, right, that was part of the conspiracy. So he does not get to put it now. Given when Jay testifies, he certainly can use this to cross examine

him as a hiring consistent statement. At that point, John Parker argues that Jake's testimony is part of the defense's constitutional right to present a complete defense. The costory of shape is covered in ups. We shouldn't have to we if they call, which it comes into this officer in pro When it's time to make a ruling, Judge Steering decides he needs to hear more argument. I'm not going to decide ultimately today whether we're going to be able to play that tape in the defense side of the case.

Outside that tomorrow morning, after I've heard arguments here, you should be ready about eight forty five to go on record and argue that issue, and then I'll make that decis. They let the jury back into the courtroom and Judge Steering addresses the court. Lady and gentlemen the court. We're going to have an early day close today. The court has some things to do that do not involve the jury during closes the day early to give the defense

and prosecution time to prepare for tomorrow's hearing. Here again, James Pilcher. So I pretty much shut down the trial for the afternoon, and actually the judge held it under advise me and said I'll rule on it tomorrow. So we're all on pins and needles the next day as to whether or not we're gonna have to sit through six hours of listening to Ryan and Jake talk to

each other. News media reports the latest development in the trial the defense trying to play Jake Wagner's first interrogation tape today, but the prosecution said, wait, you can't do that. We have to enter that as evidence first, And the judge said, show up here tomorrow morning and prepare to argue about it and he'll make a decision then. So that brings us to tomorrow. Will jurors here Jake Wagner's five hour interrogation tape, Will they hear Angela Wagner's two

hour interrogation tape? And how will George the man on trial come up in those tapes? But the next morning, it's not Jake's interview that makes news. George Wagner the Fourth providing an explosive audio recording of his mom, Angela's interrogation by BCI agents. It was perhaps the first time George whiten To the fourth heard his mother's voice in

the four years since the family was arrested. Before the jury has brought in judge during Here's arguments about whether to allow in the audio recording of Jake's interview from when the Wagners were intercepted at the Canadian border. Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa lays out her reasons for the objection. Jay made a complete denial. There was nothing that was taken from that interview by especially that informed next investigative steps. So I guess really one question would be for what

purposes this being requested to be? Here's John Parker with the defense, because Jay has angel epispiracy. They are prospirators, all right, series and even though the crime I didn't even get it done, this recording will reflect Jayce backards to cover us. Finally, Judge Darring makes a ruling, well, I think I understand the arguments evolved, but I'm going to deny the request of defense to play the tape

at this time. Here again, James Pilcher. One of the interesting things about this day was the prosecution specifically chooses not to play the tape of the recording they made with George, and there were some questions, Okay, why aren't they playing this to show what he was saying at the time. As for the strategy of this, we think possibly they're not playing it. So if and when George decides to take the stand, he can't tailor his testimony

to what he said at the border. And it's actually part of this argument about Jake as well, Jake's recording, and they say no, that allows him to testify on his own behalf without taking the sand. So that's where that argument comes up, and it turns into another legal battle and it's won. The prosecution wins with Jake's interview ruled as inadmissible. At this point in the trial, the

prosecution calls up their next witness. He's raisu're right, an, can you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give show me the truth, the whole truths? I nothing about the truths as you shall answer and to God. BCI Agent Jennifer Comasford has six years experience with the Special Investigations Unit in Ohio BCI. She wears a polka dot shirt and a blazer with straight brown hair that falls to her shoulders. She has relaxed on

the stand. Agent Commasford was one of the agents present for the searches of the Wagner's farm and trailers. She was also on the team of agents that to view the Wagner's at the Canadian border. You treated it like a custodio interview. Tell us what that means. We treated it as a custido interview and that we mirandized Angela Wagner because we treat it as though she was in custody, not free to leave, and that she was being interrogated. So we read her her miranda rights. You're on her

this time. I would request to play the recording of Special Agent Comsford's interview with Angela Wagner at the Montana border. The prosecution cues up the tape of Angela's interview and begins playing it for the jury. The defendant, George Wagner, stares down at his feet. But the reason why here it was obviously okay, with all that, all that, nobody's going down in Pute County, and that's the reason we came up here to get away from all that. Okay, okay,

tracing the media is all over itself. Have you been following any of that? Of course, yes, you know, we just want to get away from down there and talk to out Sorry to stale own type family. I think it would be best for everybody I have some personal questions for you though the last Oh we love it here again, James Pilcher. This recording of Angela is really significant. First of all, the first time we heard her voice

in the courtroom. But second of all, it gives us a sense of their state of mind as they're becoming aware that they're being suspects, are being treated as suspects. Agent Coomasford an agent Rick Ward ask about Angela Wagner's relationship with the Rodent family. Relationship I had the rigs was to Hannah. Hannah and my son Jake, we're together for five years? Well yeah, okay, um did an I'm

getting married. Yes, he had a waiting planned, everything was planned out for that August that she had everything organized, everything ready, and I love that she wouldn't break And she did break and s well it was hurt. Of course, she was in love with his life. I mean, my son doesn't take anything like like you know why you want them? You know what I don't know. I know that Hannah was really young when her Jake got together.

What's the difference between the two. Anna was thirteen, my son was seventeen, sixteen and a halfs On investigators ask Angela about her relationship with Hanname Rodin. So, your relationship with with Hannah was good. I thought she was a school brack. But I thought she was a school rap because she really was. I mean, no, that's that she was. Your dad let her getting away every im she would give me looks and she would snarl, and she would tell Jacob was being mean. And you know, but that's

typical teenagers, all typical. Sometimes mother was and ye. The agents bring the conversation back to Jake's reaction to Hannah Rodin dating other people. So when when Hannah gets pregnant with the other thing, Yeah, how did number one with the other boyfriend or boyfriends? And Jake? Well one, Jake,

they would talk to the other boyfriends. Never actually, Jake, don't have you ever talked to Charlie Woods Whenever they were determined who The paternity test showed that Charlie Gilly and not Jake Wagner, was the father of Hannah's second baby. The agents ask if Angela was upset about Hannah Ma getting pregnant by another man who was not Jake, And even she told me she had texted me when she texted me about being pregnant. She was afraid I would

be upset. You're pregnant. I was upset though, I was upset when she loved Jake. Yeah. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. One striking things about this is they begin to talk about the fact that Hannah had kind of separated herself away from the rest of the family, had gone out and gotten pregnant by another guy. And I really wonder, you know, she says that that didn't

necessarily upset her. Does anybody actually believe that, you know, because I think that it would have been Angela's desire to continue to have controlled, you know, Hannah. You know, because if you have control over Hannah, you have control over the child that she had with Jake. BCI agent record as Angela about Billy Wagner's relationship with Hannah man

rowdin with Hannah. Oh God, he loved that girl. He caught her his breath, you know, even I mean, that's why always hold Chris, I said, Chris, even if they break up, She's still going to be my daughter. Sorry, you're going to have to share. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Well, we know steph from interviewing close Wagner family friends, that they were aware that they were kind of under the lens of law enforcement, and that they were kind of

planning for potentially being interrogated or talked to. And so when we hear these recordings, it's so interesting and fascinating. Me. I mean, I don't think this is so off the conflict. I think they had a little bit of a script in their heads. You're right. But again, even if they have a script and they have a plan, it's real different when you're separated for the first time in being

asked and questioned by authorities. This is the moment. This, by all accounts, is the moment where authorities collected the most data that would be later used against them. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and

he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious, Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will

always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabo here, host of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else. Like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extra zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking,

learning that I kind of have to start over. The tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar to some of the students that I do work with, and that's what I teach them not to do. We're making more revisionist history for you this year than ever, from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put your thumb up like the US Are you gonna pull

the trigger with this finger here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist History on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you

find yourself at that line. It's n's ricin and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, Like this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to speak out disgrace to our gun. Evil should be prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense.

I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Names Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What

they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment or you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous.

It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast be sure to subscribe and share. Agents ask ev Angela was ever in Chris rod and Seniors trailer Trailer Chris Chris one time one time? Oh my gosh,

I don't well listen limits four four years ago. I don't like sitting on the couch and has this much dog care one stuff. It's his dogs. Uh over great, you know I mean but no, I don't like sitting dogs. Dogs at least I mean friendly. You don't have to worry about anything like that. No, you you have to. Okay, let's be this way. Uh, if he's there, you're okay. Okay. Chance his fit bull, big, love you dog, sweet as he can bag, Okay, Jake. Jake's got to get several

times by chance, didn't off. She was not particularly a fan of the Rodents. Sounds like I thought they were too messy, thought, you know, she never went over Christine or she went over once for the Fourth of July party and it was too smoky and there was too much dog air everywhere. Agents then bring it back to the murders. So when this occurs, what were your initial thoughts? What was horrified? I had just been to my house

just days before the murders. Angela Wagner says that Hanname Rodin came by to show her new baby to Jake George and Angela, Okay, was everything cool? Yeah? She was making fun of Jake because he had tried to dye his hair a little darker brown and it turned out more black. And she was making fun of baby, you know, about his hair and stuff, and that we were I mean, everything was fine. Investigators bring the interview back to the

day after the murders. How did you first find out the news, like in the morning or you know what, I don't know it was. It was the morning. How an open watching the news? And were you guys together? Yeah, Angela tells the agents she was with Billy at the Peterson Road residence when she heard the news about the Rodents being murdered. What was Jake's response when crying when he heard the new you guys all together? He was outsight. Agents ask Angela why she thinks the trailers on her

farm were searched by authorities. Okay, this is the part that we gave him everything they needed and then you know, we get halfway to the road and they're down are searching the farm and then I'm sorry, what they get to our stuff and our framers is ridiculous. All they had done saying, hey, we want to search. I'd opened the door, you know, search. I don't love in the hip. Angela Wagner is then asked if there was a written

cus see agreement between Jake and Annime Rodin. Now, was there any type of living will or anything like if something were to happen, And this is what we're you know, you have no idea that someone want to show you here again, James Pilcher, We saw it in how they circled around with Billy, and we saw the same kind of approach. They obviously had the shoe print stuff. They obviously had the receipt, they obviously had the shell casings.

It takes them two to three hours to get to the point where they're presenting that in front of them. The investigator pulls out a document and places it in front of Angelo Agner. They are okay, hey, yeah, I remember, you don't remember that. The document appears to be a custody agreement, saying that in the event of Hannah May Rodin's death, that custody of her daughter would go to Jake Wagner. It appears to have Hannah's signature on the forum.

The detectives tell Angela they found it in her trailer. This is what we're curious about them, and it was do you know who that is? Your mom? So your mom will arise us, but you didn't know about it. I don't remember it. Okay, here again, Stephanie and Jeff. This is unbelievable to be hearing for the first time. She's speaking so casually, and she's talking so cavalierly about her relationship with the road Ins and Billy's relationship with Hannah May, and it all sounds kind of cozy. Yeah.

We covered in season one of the podcast when Angela Wagner made that public Facebook post right after the murder's calling. Hannah May wrote in a daughter to her hoping they catch the monsters who did this, And this interview was like that post on steroids. How do you not crack under the pressure. My biggest takeaway from these recordings is that the Wagner family, at least Angela in this instance, really thought they could ounce our police. The document was

notarized by Angela's mother, Rita Newcome. The agents continue to press Angela on the forged custody agreement that they found in her trailer. But when just trying to figure out this, this is really interesting to me. It printed out three three weeks before the work and you said you yeah, ok, yeah, they did have those documents and they were able to clearly show hey, they're signed here, but they were clearly

printed out here on this day from this website. Blank, How do you explain that there was printed out a week before the murders and yet they got a date two years before? How do you how do you explain this? So I can't remember I didn't do it. The agents ask if Jake Billy or George Wagner could have done the murders. So I'm asking you, maybe you think that my son did it, or am I anybody and your family? I'm asking you, I'm okay, can you tell me definitively yes?

I can. How you definitively know? Because one of my son would knew that. I said he had nothing against a can of handsome and even though him and Hannah Brook it wasn't enough for that. Agents show Angela Wagner photos of foot impressions made in blood founded the crime scene. So what we have with time wise, they have a database like we dods. Okay, And what we can do is we can take any shoe tread in the world and I identify the manufacturer in the size. Angela A.

Wagner is then showed a pair of shoes. I don't ever remember buyous for any reason. Remember seeing those? I know? I know, No, I don't seen. No, Dad have some of them. But the agents then show Angela a receipt. We have a receipt for those shoes purchased by you. Okay. I did presare them. I got them, but I don't. They are I don't mean shoes, so they wouldn't wear them. But they wouldn't have used them, one of those because I threw them away. But what them two weeks before? Yes,

I purchased them. That I am telling you. They didn't like them. They wouldn't wear them. You know, they wanted a pair of shoes. They always wear boots. Hook you do. I bought them and they didn't. I don't know about that. The agents show Angela out of her coming out of Walmart the day she purchased the shoes. It was caught on security cameras in the car. Did you go to did you go with the kids? I mean you look alone in that picture when you went to Walmart to

buy that stuff back in April two thousand and sixteen. Okay, you're alone, but I don't know that you're alone getting back in the car. You're not. No, I was not the one. Who are you with? Yeah? I know the kids was given sleeping weird than what we would have been in the car. Didn't even that. I think I think they were all in the car that I can remember that one. Okay, two weeks before the homicide, you purchased two pairs of shoes which identically match bloody Foot

Prince in a crying scene. Okay, that's another court from the shoe confirming to match the tread. The data is the porn up with the shoe to verify the match. This is a lab work from the casing agents. Present another lab report to Angelo Agner. I'm dentical match. There were casings recovered from several of the crime scenes. Okay, okay, various calibers. Yeah, okay, these identically match the show casings in your grove away. Okay, I wanted twos from the

same god they killed. There's no way Angel exa identical match. There's no way that they were. There's no way. We have everyone in our ballistics lab, every expert, every fire experts review and confirmed there is an identical match. You do know we're not the only ones that shot guns. Other has right, Yeah, they're all people down. Over the times family've been know, there's been several people down angels or a definitive match blueprint, And I was stand what

you're saying on that. It's a blueprint. When I fire. When I fire my weather my issue gun and it ejects around, okay, and then I use it somewhere else, that's an identical matach James Pilcher. One thing that strikes me in these interviews, in this tape with Angela is how her demeanor changes the minute they show her the stuff about the shoes, the bullets, the shell casings, all

of that. She han't an answer for it, but you can almost see based on her voice change and everything else, and how she starts to be hammering and pawing and hemming and all of that the minute they present that, how it her demeanor changes. She communally gets defenses sell a huge, huge moment there. Joseph Scott Morgan. They've lived in a bubble, it's very gets protected from everything else from outside the world. Suddenly you know that bubble is

no longer existent. You understand that somebody has penetrated, and somebody's penetrated that you don't have any control over them, and you've been able to control all these other people within this environment, and maybe for the first time, fear sets him. At that moment, you think you've got all the basis covered. You know, you're running off the wal

Mart by shoes. You're just you're doing all this and you're trying to work your logistical magic here, and suddenly somebody's penetrated, and suddenly you realize there's actually somebody that's smarter than you that's in the run. But I love the truth from you. Okay, did something happen? No, I'm I'm aware. I've not even had you say you're ten

minutes ago. You're definitively sure. I am. There's there's too much definitive over all that we have casings that we use, we have the same it will use it to pricy, it will shot at your house. We have shoes. I guess the bottom line is we have all this. You can understand how this appears yes, I see you, and this is the if you're gonna have any chance to talk with us about what happened, what knowledge you have it's now Angelia, and not being a hundred percent, I

can tell by the way you're talking. Okay, Well, I'm just I'm gonna show I'm just gonna stop. Well, I don't no, I'm just I'm just gonna stop right here and do you I can give that turn. That's what I'm gonna do because I don't know. I'm just gonna say no more. Agents stop the interview and the recording. Here's James Pilcher, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean you could see it. Right as soon as they started presenting her the heart evidence, she clammed up. She's like,

I need a lawyer. Suddenly, all of that planning that she's done to purchasing the controlling of everybody, suddenly that's becoming unraveled. She knows she at least has enough of a survival instinct about her at that point in time. She knows that she needs to reach out for counsel, and I mean quick, because the thing is spinning in a flat spin and it's it's gonna turn out poorly forward. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher,

and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't, to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back.

I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to The girl Friends on

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, host of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extra zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking learning that I kind of have

to start over. The tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar to some of the students that I do work with, and that's what I teach them not to do. We're making more revisionist history for you this year than ever from places all across this great country emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put your thumb up like us,

You're gonna pull the trigger with this finger here. Okay, listen to revisionist history on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney Hill is going on in here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible immoral thing. Aligne they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no,

we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line ricin and somebody needs to just for once, give everybody the whole truth like this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to speak out disgrace to our good. Evil po should be

prosecuted when power corrupts. Conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things people like me have

been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing as evil. They will take things away. And I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here, and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.

The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable, is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. After hearing the interview with Angelo Wagner and its entirety, John Parker with the Defense, gets up for cross examination. He asks Agent Commasford about Angelo Wagner's home in Bethel Hill,

where she lived with her family for a time. Were you aware that she was involved as a fraudulent arsons among them? I recall some limited information about their being arson, he claims. Did you know that one of the houses that burned down that she had built had a marijuana grow room in the basement in her direction? I don't know that I was aware of that at buffal Hell, Now all right, were you aware of her dog breeding business that she fraudently represented the dogs with pure bread

when they were not you were not aware. No, I was not aware of that. Now, and Angela told you that Jake was devastated at the news of Hannah's death, Yes, she did say that, and you later learned that Jake is actually one of the shot hand and killed her. Fair to say, Angela has been very deceitful about many things. I would say that she's been deceitful about things. Yes. At that point, you know, the defense goes to the BCI agent who conducted the interview, asking her, Hey, did

you ask her about the dog breeding business? Did you ask her about the arsons? Did you ask about the marijuana business? They said, no, we were trying to solve the murder, but they were I think trying to sow seeds of doubt about the effectiveness of the investigation, or at least the effectiveness of the questions that they asked. She asks agent Commisford if any members of the Wagner family had concerns about the Rodents having custody of the

child that Jake and Hannah shared. My understanding is there were concerns on the part of the Wagner family that would become under the custody of the Rodent family. So did you know which of the Wagners had those concerns, specifically Angela, Jake, George, and Billy. They're building to this conspiracy that it wasn't just a couple of people, that was the entire family. And this family is such that if one person knows it, all four of them know it.

So they're still building to this. They're driving to Alaska, six of them with two little kids in one car, across country, thousands of miles together. How would they be able to be that close and share their finances and all of that and yet not know about killing eight people and planning to kill eight people and building the guns to kill eight people and all of that. Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa redirects. You were asked it appeared that Angela Wagner was alone and she was in the store

purchasing those shoes. And your response was, what as my understanding inside the store that she was alone? Yes, when she was outside of the store alone and when you based out video evidence specifically she got into the back of that vehicle, yes, correct, So who was with Angela Wagner when she bought the shoes at Walmart? More on that next time for more information on the case and relevant photos. Follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.

The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Cacaro, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm

hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it's time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelor's. One of them was a spot Barrenmount. On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wackop. He chokeded to the point she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed

my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily for years. I've been on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues and culture of a new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to when

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Listen to The Art Instry Arm Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The acclaimed dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. It's Like a Ghost. We had an agreement to keep each other's secrets. None of you are making decisions to keep the rest of us safe, which leaves me I'm asking for your forgiveness. After Shock season two, starring Sarah Wayne Kelly's David Harbor and Jeffrey

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