On the Eve Of...

subscribe today. The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording themselves to make a new documentary. Were the news reporters because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. He just walked around shot all the black people. The cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure out how to go on and how to compete. I wanted the one for them more than anything this season. Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio

app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the spot Baronmout. On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. I would call him and I

would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues and

culture of a new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to when you land in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one true crime podcast is back. The bodies of eight family members were discovered in Pike County, Ohio. Season four of The Pikes and Massacre. The trials begin,

So let's talk about the crime scenes. Accused murderer George Wagner faces a judge and jury. This is legitimately the biggest murder trial in the state of Ohio's history. They're going to be some surprises in this trial. His mother and youngest brother are said to testify against him. It is extremely rare for family to testify against family. Will he face the death penalty they killed the mother of the girl they were trying to get custody up or

will he walk free? I think the defense knows something that we don't know. We're there tracking the case in real time. I don't think I've ever seen photos that graphic before. Joined the nearly thirty million listeners as the mystery unfolds. When a juror sees a human bodies and ripped shreds, they want their pound flesh. This is the piped and Massacre Childs begin Season four, episode one, on the eve of I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at

KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. After following this case for years, trials are officially beginning in Ohio's largest criminal investigation in the state's history. It's been more than six years since the events of April twenty first, twenty sixteen, when eight family members were shot dead in the middle of the night, some were sleeping and others. Based on crime scene evidence, their final moments are unimaginable.

It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Prosecutors say the Wagner family planned the killing for months. I don't know that people can fully fathom what went on in those mobile homes. But when the full force of that hits the most important people in the room, which are going

to be those jurors, it's going to reverberate. Two and a half years later, four members of a prominent local family who knew the victims very well, were arrested in charge with capital murder. This was planned and plotted four different homes where these family members were slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered. And for this family, God, and when this happened, think about this shock and confusion. Who takes out a whole

family and why would you do that? Matriarch Angela Wagner, her husband Billy, and their two sons in their early twenties, Jake and George were the arrested parties. Since then, Angela Wagner and her youngest son Jake have taken plea agreements in exchange for testifying against George and Billy Wagner. We've spent years chasing clues trying to unpack the mystery of

what happened that night. Since we've been following the Piked and masker for so many years, Stephanie and I decided the only way to make sure we got the whole story was to get in that quart room for the trial. Here's Stephanie as this trial finally approaches, there are a lot of questions that we still don't have answers to

and are desperate to know more about. It was noted in one of the motions that accused older brother George Wagner, who is the one standing trial, only joined the murdering spree very last minute that fateful night, and we don't understand why. Says in the motion that he was only going to protect his younger brother, Jake Wagner, from his father. What does that even mean? I also want to know if he accused mother Angela Wagner, was actually at four

murder locations. In her plea deal, she claims that she was quote home babysitting, but previous reports say otherwise. She also has a burglary charge, which would say perhaps she was at the location before or after the murders. It's yet unclear. And what a showdown in the courtroom. This is actually going to be think about it for the very first time in years. Angela Wagner, the accused mother, and the youngest brother, Jake Wagner, are going to face off.

They're going to see George in the courtroom. They're gonna lock eyes, and that's going to seal his fate. We desperately want to be there for that. The courtroom where the Wagner's fate will be decided as in the Pike County Courthouse. It's a three story red brick federal style building in the middle of Waverley, Ohio, about twenty miles northeast of where the murders took place. It looks exactly like you would imagine a medium sized midwest county courthouse

to look. The anticipation is extremely high. I've been involved in this in this area Southwest Ohio trial work for years, and I've never seen anything like it. Like every other step in this case, from the crime scene itself, through the investigation and shot and guilty verdicts, the word everyone uses is unprecedented. The fact that it's holding true even leading up to the actual trial maybe shouldn't feel surprising.

But it has been a pretty bumpy, unexpected start. Initially, opening statements were slated to begin on Tuesday, September sixth, the day after Labor Day. We booked a trip to Pike County, only to have to cancel it due to the delays. Jeff spoke with reporter James Pilcher about how local media was getting set up to cover the trial. Tell me, so you're in Pike County right now or where are you. I'm actually on the first floor of the courtroom the courthouse, sitting right below the courtroom in

the media room. I'm going to be spending a lot of time here over the next four weeks, five weeks, six weeks. And so what's the feeling like in the courthouse and around the courthouse? Well, today it was a lot of hustle and bustle. With that, there were a couple other chiev stations we're here dropping off their equipment. We're installing all of our stuff, getting everything set up. Do you think that Waverley Courthouse is ready for a

trial of this magnitude they're trying. They've actually installed higher speed internet, They've installed free Wi Fi for us here in the media room. I think there are some you know, there's some businesses that are actually looking forward to it because there's gonna be so many people in from out of town as part of this. Over the past year, we've gotten glimpses of the prosecution strategy based on arguments made by lead Attorney Angie Kneppa during pre trial motions.

It seems like they will attempt to paint a picture of a tight knit family where everyone was in on the plot. The defense's main argument is that the family isn't on trial here, George Wagner is, and that he didn't actually kill anyone that night. How does defense get out from underneath the legal standard of aggravated murder, which states, in Ohio you don't have to pull the trigger to be convicted of murder if you help plant and if you help cover it up, and if you helped execute it.

So that's going to be a very big challenge and I'm very interested to see what the defense says. The wild card is what Jake and Angela may say while on the stand. They have not seen each other since being arrested in twenty eighteen. How common is that for family to testify against family in a case like this. It is extremely, extremely rare for family to testify against family.

Mike Allen, as a legal analyst who's worked on the defense and prosecution sides and is also a former judge, maybe I've seen it two or three times in all the years I've been doing this, and never never on a case of this, magnate dude. It's like two family members against two other family members, and this is a family that is reportedly extremely close. That's going to be something to see because it just doesn't happen very often. We can assume that what Jake and Angela say about

George is not going to be favorable. They're not going to say that he didn't do anything wrong right, quite the opposite, exactly. I mean, yeah, the prosecutor is not going to put them up on the stand for them to testify. How wonderful you know, George is ain't gonna happen. They're not gonna be able to play around up there and play footsie with the prosecutor. I mean, they have to testify truthfully. Can you talk to us about what the possible end results are for George? Could he walk?

Are there lesser charges or is it guilty on all? What are the options? Here are the options for George? I mean, obviously one of the options is of finding him not guilty to the aggravated murder. But even if that were to happen, he's still stuck with four counts of aggravated burglary, three counts of tampering with evidence, two counts of unlawful possession of dangerous ordinance, single counts of conspiracy, forgery,

unauthorized use of a computer or telecommunications wire. So even if he's not convicted of the homicides, there is a lot here that can put him away for a lot of years. Could all of those together equal a life sentence or is that totally unknowable? Oh? No, it could he easily equal life sense. Meanwhile, jury selection, which begun on August eighth, is underway. The first hurdle is finding an impartial jury in a small town for the largest case in the history of Ohio. Here's a retired prosecutor

and Flanagan. You have to usually wait until you start to see the jury and see if you can't come up with a number of people who indicate they can be fair and impartial. But it doesn't really matter if they've had some information come through its will they listen to the evidence and the rulings and the matters that have been brought to them in the courtroom, set aside anything else they might have heard, and then make the

decision fairly and honestly for both sides. I always talk to a jury and say, you know, at the end of the day, you want to go home, and you want to be safe in your own heart and mind that you have only done what you've been asked to do because you want to go home and be able to sleep tonight. To find a jury. Pike County scent about a thousand questionnaires to locals asking for volunteers. Two hundred people responded, and the court is in the process

of whittling them down. Seventy perspective death qualified jurors reported to the Pike County Courthouse. This is where final jury selection is beginning. Death qualified means it's already been determined that these jurors are willing to implement the death penalty if it's warranted. Local crime reporter Anjeanette Levy has been our Eyes and Ears on the ground in Ohio for several seasons of the podcast. I spoke with Anjeanette about

what it's been like. During the week preceding the trial, seventy death qualified jurors showed up at the Pike County Courthouse. Fifty one of them were women and nineteen of them were men, and so George Wagner, the Force attorneys, they filed a motion saying, this whole panel, the whole veneer should be stricken because it's too many women, and there were working class jurors who were excluded for financial hardship

and they shouldn't have been. So that's disc a minatory and so they thought, you know, we should start over with the whole thing. Well, the judge said, no, I don't think so and denied the motion. So jury selection continued, and we were all wondering whether or not they'd be able to really seat this jury, and they were able to do it. So the jury consists of nine women and three men, and then the panel of six alternates and that's five women and one man. So you have

majority women who will be hearing this case. Wow, with having so many women, that's unusual, right, you know, I don't know if it's unusual. I think we've seen trials like this in the past where it's waited one way or the other. I covered the Johnny Depp trial in Virginia. Different trial, obviously a civil case, a defamation case, but the majority of the jurors were men on the panel. Sometimes that's just how it shakes out. We're going to

take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one

time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast from iHeart podcasts. What nay hell

is going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned and I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line. Thou Ricin aren't Ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to

sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal men, things are going to happen to seek out disgrace through our gun. Evil PA should be prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of Defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my

award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl, You and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get

home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcast or wherever

you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi. I'm Dalia Wild and I want to invite you to listen to my newest podcast, The Afters to make up our bodies already existed in the style. It's called the Oh My God Particles Show or OMGPS for short. How you like me always wondering about the universally, what the universe is made of? What is in the atmospheres of alien panic? And you know, how are we even here

to even ask those questions? So road trip I want to get some answers directly from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed in the universe was about a trillion to the second old. I found scientists from all over the world. Everybody is working together to get their experiment working. I've got to talk to brilliant astrophysicists who collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My On Particle

Show on me. I heard radio, app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. With the jury chosen in less than a week before the trial is said to begin, Presiding Judge Deering drops a bombshell on the media. Late today, Judge Randy Deering issued his final rules on what can

and can't be shown on camera or online. Judge Deerring is going to allow each witness to opt out of being photographed or recorded that includes any audio of their testimony, So if they choose, witnesses can only be seen or heard by people inside the courtroom. The judge will also extend that right to the Wagner's younger brother Jake, and

his mother Angela when they testify for the prosecution. When the witness comes to the stand, he's going to say, yeah, the right not to be shown on television, and then we have to turn the camera off. He's going to do that herby single witness. Why you know, it's gonna be very cult up. They all say no, and we still haven't gotten any clarification and whether or not we can at least play the audio of their voice, we're

still kind of up in the air. And when this whole thing's going to start, how we can cover it all of that. Here's reporter and Jeanette Levy speaking with producer Chris Graves. In the state of Ohio, witnesses can opt out of being videotaped recorded in any way, so we had to file something. So we're probably going to have a hearing next week. If they deny this motion that you guys are filing, then everyone gets the option to turn down being recorded. Correct, They have the option anyway.

What we're more concerned about is Jake and Angela being on camera. We don't want them to be able to opt out, and any other witnesses who want don't want to be photographed. We want the right to record at least their audio. You know, there may be lay witnesses who are fearful of testifying, and that's understandable, but we want to at least be able to hear what they're saying. We all pitched in, like all four Cincinnati TV stations,

the Cincinnati Enquirer, Law Crime, and Court TV. We all are represented by the same lawyer, Sure yeah, Jack Griner. Media lawyer Jack Grinder represented Local twelve and several other outlets in the effort to get better access to the trial. On his website, Grinder calls himself a reporter's lawyer and is a well known champion for First Amendment rights. We've spoken about him before. He's the same attorney who sued

for access to the autopsies in this case. We had hoped that we get a ruling that would really go towards maximizing the public's ability to participate in this trial, at least in the sense of observing it. People can come to the courtroom, but for many people that's not possible. With George Wagner the fourth facing twenty two counts, there's going to be a lot of evidence to go through

point by point. Also, since there has been so much that's been protected and redacted in the autopsies, this will also be our first opportunity to see the crime scene photos to find out exactly what occurred that night. Here's Stephanie. Those are going to tell a very specific story. I just want to see the accused, Billy Wagner, in person and see how his demeanor is. I mean, think about it.

It's been alleged that Billy Wagner, George Wagner, and Jake Wagner all attended the funerals of people who they murdered. I mean, can you imagine the level of composure that must take and what kind of psychopaths actually attend the funeral and pretend to be mourning the people they actually murdered.

This will also be the time when we find out if, indeed these eight murders the sole motive behind them was for custody of the daughter, who was shared between confirmed murderer Jake Wagner and the victim Hannah may Roden or were many other things at play, and more importantly, God willing the road Ins, the Gillies, and the Manly family that they'll finally get some justice as the child gets closer.

There is another surprising development. The jury boarded a school bus and then they were taken to some of the remote locations where the crime scenes actually happen. In both Pikedon and Reardon, Ohio, jurors visited all four crime scenes, looking closely at run down buildings now partially covered in overgrowth and the vacant ground where the road In mobile homes once sat. But a reminder that the jury view

is not to be considered as evidence for the jurors. Rather, it's to give them a better understanding of the arguments here and really kind of give them a lay of the land, if you will. Anette Levy and the rest of the media are allowed to follow the school bus full of jurors and view the proceedings from a distance. Chris Graves and I spoke with her about this. We followed along as the school bus and the motorcade went around and we went to all these sites from nine

thirty in the morning till about seven at night. We also went to places points of interest and drove around a lot of roads where you know, they determined it was like the routes. They said that the Wagner strove that night. Did they show them in the order that they thought they had been killed? We believe. So. It started out at Chris's house, Chris Senior. Then they walked a path down to Frankie Roden's house that he shared with Hannah Gilly, and then they went down to Dana

Roden's home, but didn't stop. So it was very interesting. It makes you think, did they start at Chris Senior's, then they went down to Frankie's, they turn around, they see that, you know, whatever's going on at Dana's house. Maybe they didn't stop. Maybe they went down to Cadets and came back. We don't know that for certain, but it's certainly a possibility because there was a discussion that Dana had worked at double shift that night and worked

later than anticipated. Oh my god, is the implication potentially with what you just said, that they knew she was working a double shift and therefore didn't want to go knowing she wouldn't be there. That was the conclusion we were drawing. That doesn't mean we were right, but it seemed strange that they would drive down to Dana's and not get out when you're on the same road. Why

do that? I don't recall a case where the jurors and this includes the people the twelve and paneled and then the alternates are loaded up in a school bus and driven out to these locations where these events took place. Here's forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. You think about, you know, as the crew is moving down the road and they essentially wiped out one portion of the family, are they talking about, you know, what they're going to

do next on Union Hill Road? And that kind of puts it in perspective at that moment time, does the jury have a sense of that was the prosecutor or the detectives on board that school bus is kind of acting like a tour guide, if you will, and telling them it was at this point that they picked up the car. It was they we believe that they traveled

in this direction. And you're getting an idea of this space, and then you you contemplate for a moment what these folks in the vehicle or we're talking about doing and what they did. And I think that that's that's certainly a note that the prosecutors want to drop into the ears of the jury numbers. You know, all of these sorts of little details like that, which can I think, you know, after this trial, these trials are said and done. This is something that will be studied for years to come.

This Pike County sheriff in Pound lot is a key stop on the jury view. Remember, the rodents were found dead inside their mobile homes and camper and this lot is where those vehicles were hauled and are still being helped today. They took them to the impound lot at the Sheriff's office, where the trailers are now stored and where the pickup truck that we believe Dake said they purchased to commit the murders is stored. They were taken to ten locations over two days. To our knowledge, they

were not taken into the actual trailers. We were not permitted to go into the actual structure where those trailers are housed. So we should have been allowed in there. It's public property, and according to the precedent, even if it was private property, we should be allowed to go on it, but they kept us out. Stephanie and I have been too piked in numerous times over the past

few years, but this time the stakes failed higher. The last time you and I were here, it was snowing and raining and dark and dreary and so cold, And now it's sunny and bright and definitely has a different feeling. We head to the courthouse to meet up with reporter James Pilcher to find out the latest about media access. The most surprising thing about this whole enterprise is how quickly the judge turned from being media friendly to all of a sudden being the most restrictive trial however any

of us have ever had to deal with. Ever. Why do you think we don't know why We've asked, why we've asked for a meeting with the judge, We've gotten no answer. Technically, if you're a city official. You work for the city. So if the city is you know, air quote standing sitting jury and watching and wanting to see how taxpayer dollars are getting spent for me, it's more of a transparency public record. This is the most complex, most important murder trial in the history of the state,

and yet nobody can watch it. I don't know, unless we want to push it to another appeals court or the Supreme Court, there's nothing we can do. Like I kind of get it for retribution purposes if you're somebody who's speaking out against the accused Wagners and you're fearing that someone's going to come put a hit on you. On Friday, they started erecting a fence around the parking lot of the courthouse and the entire courthouse, a chain

link fence. We had never seen that before. This is an old, old courthouse, and George Wagner has to be brought into the courthouse from the outside. There isn't an underground tunnel or any other type of entrance, so they've erected defense. Is that concern for his safety? I would assume it's a safety issue. They don't want people just kind of walking through there that shouldn't be in there. That's my interpretation of why they did that. Hopefully we

can get cameras in there, that's really the goal. Yeah, right now, I don't know. Man kind of looks a little bit shaky. What do you think the feeling is for the prosecution, for the defense, for everyone in Pike County right now? You know, any time before trial and you get butterflies, No matter how many of them that you've done before, you get butterflies. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a

podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for

his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with your fis saw him right now. I spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney, hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a

really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin, arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are

the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to week out disgrace through our gun people page. It's been prosecan. When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's

always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment or you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what

I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, be sure to subscribe and share in our twenty two years of friendship, Andy, this has to be the most bizarre thing we've ever done.

I know, I love it. Our podcast My Vagina said, what is a podcast where we ask our everyday Vagina listeners to pull up a seat at the best Friend's table as we share our most personal and humiliating stories and ask questions about women's bodies. We are going to discuss all body things like what exactly are we supposed to do with our pubs? Oh my gosh, if you could have a heart shaped pube that were bedazzled in pink rubies, perimenopause. I feel right now justified. I'm going

to start my own personal movement. I'm going to start blaming anything that goes wrong in my life on perrymenopause, leg hare too long, peru don't have the will to clean, perrymnopause exactly, our whack periods, boob issues, and so much more. Listen to My Vagina said, what podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What. On the morning of the first day of trial, the media is alerted to another development, opening statements were expected and

slated for today, but there has been a delay. We were supposed to be an opening statements right now that we got word that somebody involved with the trial has become ill and needs some time to recover. It's a temporary setback in a process that has taken over six years to begin. As of right now, we're planning for opening statements on September twelfth. That's next Monday. September eleventh is a date etched in the consciousness of every American today,

at least this year in Southeast Ohio. It's the day before the biggest trial in the history of the state. We're on the leave of this, and these lawyers have been eating, sleeping, living this for months now, and I think we're starting to see, you know, exactly what each side is going to be presenting. James Pilcher. For me, it's a culmination of paying attention to this for the last two and a half years. I'm glad it's actually happening. There were some doubt in my mind as to whether

or not it actually ever would happen. I'm really really interested to hear the opening statements from the prosecution because I think they're going to lay out their case and start talking specifically about the evidence that they have. But I think the things that we're going to look for are, how does the defense present George as a quote unquote innocent bystander on all this. One of the things we've heard is that potentially George only went along to keep

Billy from killing Jake. If the evidence shows he was there, if the evidence and the wire taps, and they have reportings of him talking about this, which apparently they do, how does he get out from underneath the aggravated murder charts, even if he isn't necessarily one of the triggermen. But if this is a slam dunk for the prosecution, why is the defense going to trial? There's a strategy there

that I don't think we've seen yet. I haven't seen it, at least I think the defense probably knows something that we all don't know. Do you think there's some sort of break in the case that will come out in the courtroom that no one is expecting? Yes, I do. These are experienced defense counsel They know exactly what they're doing. So I just think before this thing is over, we're going to know quite a few things about the case. That we didn't know before. I think one of the

big things. And if you come to all these hearings, you see the Rodent and Gilley family survivors, we're here every single time. I think this is finally going to give them some enclosure, finally some actual justice. More on that. Next time, the defense table sits right in front of the witness box, so he's going to be looking right at his brother, and his brother's gonna be looking right at him. I don't think I've ever seen photos that

graphic before. When a juror sees a human bodies and ripped shreds, there's that thing within them that was they want their pound flesh. For more information in case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Grieves, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti, music by Jared Asden, audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Piked and Masker is

a production of Kati Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ready to hear more, Remember you can get episode two now completely at free and a whole week early with an I Heeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus. You'll get a never before heard subscriber exclusive bonus episode and add free access to all previous seasons of The

Pikes and Massacre as well. So open your Apple Podcasts app, search for iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe. Today, I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was Barrenmout. On paper, he was perfect, but in react, Lady, this guy is a wakome. He shouted to the point

she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Freedom and I'm Rthy. We have spent the last twenty years building and working at some of the largest companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them.

Check Out the Art and Tried ARM Show. That is a A R D HI and s R I R A M Show. Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast I'm will daily. For years have been on the road, playing shows and seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music, venues and culture of a

new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.