Mountains of Evidence

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get

your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years have been on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music this summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues and culture of a new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to

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M show. Listen to the Arc the Industry I'm show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Oh. Whenever you get to your podcast new details into what was uncovered at the gruesome crime scenes in Pike County. The prosecutors began their painstaking process of walking through every single piece of evidence, focusing on that first home owned by Chris Rodent Senior.

When you've got to make it through eight homicize your dann Riot is going to take a long time because each one of those people count each person had a life. This has to be one of the most horrific things, if not the most horrific knight of this person's life. This is the Pikes And Massacre. Returned to Pike County season four, episode six, Mountains of Evidence. I'm Courtney Armstrong until vision producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and

Jeff Shane. Thus far, George Wagner the fourth trial has been both mundane and shocking. It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. The prosecution is making its case methodically, with hours of testimony, occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details

of the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet, seemingly waiting for Angie Kannappa and her team to present anything dying George Wagner to the crime safely college. Next witness, please raise you right hand. You solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you were about to get showing the truth, the whole truth, and nothing that's the truth, that you shall answer under God, Yes, Sir, I did. Shane Henshaw was one of the lead agents for the Ohio Bureau

of Criminal Investigations, or the CBI. He arrived unseen hours after the bodies of Chris Roden Senior and his cousin Gary Rodin were discovered. This morning, Andrew Wilson is asking the questions for the prosecution's talk a little bit about your background or your employment history, taking you up to your current employment. So when did you start out in law force. I was basically commissioned as a peace officer in nineteen ninety. The first fifteen minutes of testimony highlight

Hanshaw's qualifications. He has years of training and crime scene reconstruction, ballistics and blood spatter analysis when I first arrived at saying you can see here that there's a lot of buildings, there's there's a lot of things that are primary folks. So that the prosecution displays a large photo of Chris Roden Senior's property agent Henshaw points out the front yard. A tow truck sits outside the home Chris Senior lived

in where Gary was staying that night. There's an eighteen wheeler trailer and an eighty sedan with the front half missing. Henshaw began his investigation on the lawn itself. As part of your work in this case, did you pluck the mountain can it's depicted that picture, Yes, I did. In addition to that mountain dew can. Did you find a couple other items out front of boards? Your seven seven union help writ yes, sir. Once again, you see my plaquard number two, the scale plaquard and uh you see

a cigarette butt or a partial cigarette. But there when it comes to testifying, it's clear Handshaw as well practiced. He listens intently to every question, then turns deliberately to address the jury face to face. As part of your work in this case, did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, I did. From everything that I've seen and heard, he

did an excellent job with it. No question about any of the advertage that had been not propered by the state, And I think that's a large part because of BCA's professionalism. The mountain dew can and cigarette butts contained traces of Gary Roden's DNA. Next Handshawn Fortner moved on to the exterior of the trailer. Tell us what stood out to you when you did that initial look. I noticed that there were multiple bullet holes in the front of the house.

There were six bullet holes in a line moving progressively closer to the door. You notice the screen door had bullet holes, but the front door did not. Was that correct? Yes, I've seen that. That led me to believe that the front door was most likely opened when the blood lighting event had occurred on the evening of April twenty first,

twenty sixteen. It was clear and breezy and piked in temperatures win the low seventies until about seven pm, when the wind picked up, dropping the temperature to the high fifties. The open door likely provided Chris and Gary with some welcomed fresh air. Stephanie and I talk about some of the photographs shown in trial and the details they reveal. We've heard a lot of reports over the years that Chris Sior, Frankie Rodin, and even Chris Jor Rodin worked

at Big Bear Lake at various times. They operated big equipment. We know that Chris sor was said to be building patios in and around the area, but we've never been able to substantiate those claims essentially until now. Gary Roden, Chris Senior, Roden's cousin also worked at Big Bear Lake, specifically when he was staying with Chris Rodin, which he did on occasion, and this was one of the times that he was staying there, you know, working just to

make a living. Looking at the crime scene, Phoe, we can see the clothing that Chris Senior was wearing when he was murdered, and he's literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt that says big bare leg on it. The question as to whether Chris and Gary road and knew their attackers or whether they were taken by surprise still remains. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. They had to neutralize Chris Senior and Gary the positions that they occupied in

the family. Chris was known not to back down if they did not neutralize them, if they just say, grazed him in some way and he was able to retreat, or Gary was able to retreat, They had access to phones or maybe he had an ability to get out of that trailer. They could blow the whole show them way because the next thing you know, Dana is aware of what's about to happen. Hannah is aware, and her

trailer were what's going to happen. They couldn't run the risk of a mountain these people to get to jump on them or to a lurn anybody else. So I think that that's why they was Chris's house first and neutralize Chris Senior. Injurios same time, prosecuting attorney Wilson brings up photos of clean exit holes on the interior wall of the trailer. There are torn bits of woods circling the holes. What does that indicate to you? It indicates directionality.

First of all, that whatever object calls that would have appeared to be coming from the outside end, because this is on the inside or every bull that will be tract had characteristics and appeared to come from the front of the residence toward the residence and then away from the residence. And again, would these consistent with half through type shots? Yes, sir, some of the bullets went clean through the trailer and out through the opposite wall. Here again,

Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, first off, you're talking about a mobile home, which is obviously not the most robust structure anyway, You've got a projectile that is traveling out into that muzzle, and it is supersonic. That means that with a hopowered rifle, it is actually traveling faster than speed of sound. That little paper thin wall within a mobile home is not

going to stop one of these high velocity browns. It's going to travel through till it strikes another area or person that it would have sufficiently slowed it down, and so it would have been I think, a moment of total chaos and confusion. One photo shows an exit hole right next to Walart that says, quote love less forever. The jury has shown a diagram of where bullet shards were found inside the trailer. There are two on the

front porch and a bunch around the chair. In Chris Senior's living room, a bullet is lodged in a stereo speaker as well. In addition to that projectile that you just identified from inside the wall, there were there are other projectiles in different areas of that living room. Yes, okay, there's a stack of tan pouches and boxes in front of Agent Handshaw. At this point, George Wagner fiddles with

his goatee. His defense attorney checks his watch. Every bullet chart that was collected is painstakingly taken out of its corresponding envelope and confirmed by Handshaw as evidence he bagged six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, Longcome investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean a lot of us in the media and in the Lake community laming not lawyers are why can't they speed this up? Why are they going through every shieldcase?

I think they're trying to cut the defense off at the knees as much as possible to say, we exhausted every avenue and came up with this conclusion, and we looked at every cigarette butt, and we looked at every DNA sample, and we did everything we could. You know, we live in a faster food world people. I think it even extends out to courtroom. They want things delivered to them immediately, and sometimes it takes longer to prepare. It certainly takes much longer to make your way through it.

And that's the case with this we're talking about eight dead bodies here, eight in four different locations. Was there any evidence that you saw with your eyes, based on your knowledge, you're training, your experience, that led you to believe that any shots had originated from inside of that trailer. Going outside of that trailer, I found nothing at all that would indicate that any shots were fired from within the house. Going out of the house, my opinion was

that the shots did occur from outside. I felt that they were from the front yard area. Agent Todd Partner was brought in to use what is called a Pharaoh three D scanner of the entire crime scene, including the exterior. Here again Joseph Scott Morgan with the Farrow technology. It is a laser that is set up and it's kind of hard to describe it. Folks have not seen one.

It sits on a tripod and it is a can to something that you would see along the side of the roadway if you've ever seen an individual doing surveying. Only the scene is automated and you have the lasers that are being essentially blasted out of one portion of the unit, and the unit itself is spinning around as these lasers are kind of firing off in every different direction.

The laser is shooting over ten million different points as it spins around, and you can capture height, depth, width, all of those things that we could normally do with a regular SLR unit scene. So it really breeds life into this when you're taking a look at it. And so when the jury members see this in that courtroom in Pike County, Ohio for just a few moments, they're transported back in time. Walk us through, what do you

remember about scanning that scene. We did one scan from outside out front where you could see kind of the whole front yard, bullet holes in the front of the trailer that subsequently we placed trajectory rods in, and to measure those, we place spheres on those rods that then the scanner can pick up to measure our angles. Trajectory rods are poked through bullet holes, giving investigators a general idea of the path of the bullet as it passed

through a surface. He pulls a three D model of the entire yard with long lines running into the front yard. Based on the angular measurement data. We take the horizontal angle the vertical angle, and this is just a line drawn between those two spheres a straight line that then can be extrapolated back to a possible origin of those shots.

Based on the data that the farrow scan was telling you, was it believed that those shots that went through that front door came somewhere from the area just behind that bushold They point to a spot in the ground about twenty feet from the front door on the front lawn. What we do know is there are strikes in the front of the porch, so it had to be at least there, and where the trajectory lines end on the ground,

swop couldn't be any further round. Joseph Scott Morgan. These rounds appear to be going from below to above, so they're rising up essentially from the ground. More than likely they would be in a kneeling position. I think folks would ask, well, why would you be in a kneeling position to do that? Well, you would want to try to secure your person as solidly as you possibly can because the recoil, and with this particular weapon, there is

a tremendous amount of recoil. Because this is such a robust round, you're going to feel it from the moment you engage that trigger until that energy transfers through the butt of that weapon and into your shoulder. Here's Stephanie. We've also heard reports that Senior with expecting Billy Wagner, the accused dad, that night. They were apparently going to

have an important conversation. So what does that mean? Does that mean that Billy went up to the front door and knocked on it and Chris answered, Could it be that they were just surprised? Does the idea of there being a person kneeling in wait outside of Chris Senior's home in the dark near the woods is such a terrifying thought. But we still don't know who that person is, which one wasn't. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about of anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends

know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never

confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line. Thoughts ricin aren't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth. Probably this is evil, and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to

sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to speak out disgrace to our good. Evil play should be prosecute when power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning

first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things. Keep like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And I can only hope that Dobbs, is that like Pearl Harbor, moment gro You and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home

in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us, and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Verne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you

get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi. I'm Delia Wild and I want to invite you to listen to my newest podcast, a sense that the afters to make up appy. It's called The Oh My God Particle Show or OMGPS for short. Are you like me? Always wondering about the universally? What the universe is made of? What is in the atmospheres of alien panics? And you know, how are we even here to even ask those questions? So road trip, I want to get some answers directly

from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed in the universe, was about a trillions of the second Old. I found scientists from all over the world. Everybody is working together to get their experiment working. I've got to doctor brilliant astrophysicist who collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. Listen to The Oh My God Particle Show on the I heard radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

At this point, testimony moves to the inside of the home. In the galley, members of the Rodent, Gillie and Manly families prepare themselves elves for another day of horrific photos. Geneva, Christina's mother sits stoically in the courtroom. Her daughter hands her a tissue, even though she isn't crying yet. Now, let's talk about blood or biological evidence. At this scene, they start with the pools of blood and an around a recliner in the living room inside the front door.

Just from what we saw, it's obvious that you can see what you could consider to be origins or a place that a person was in when the blood lighting event occurred. Did you take some swabs of the blood in front of that chair, Yes, sir, I did. Handshaw meticulously documented shoeprints in the dried blood in and around the area as well. Is it more likely for a shoeprint to be tracked or picked up in blood when that blood is wet or fresh, as opposed to dry

a pool. Absolutely, yes, you said when you very first observed these footprints, they were already drying the blood. Is that correct? Yes, they were, So you talk about preserving it documented, how do you go through actually photographing it and then ultimately collecting any shoeprints in this scene, Yes, they we're all photographed and documented as they were, as they were when they were filmed. And when you talk about detail, what's standing out to you where you're like, oh,

they may be able to do something for this. What's actually standing out to me at that particular time was the fact that can I stand again, please, in this area of the shoe, I'm not seeing any kind of wear pattern at all. That meant something to me. The shupernt evidence could not be shown to anyone outside the courtroom because Judge Steering ordered media not to show any photos that included blood. Sitting through this testimony, victims families

are of course emotional. One family member looks down, not wanting to see what comes next. Here again, James Filcher don't want to shock the jury, but they also don't want to offend the family. There's been some serious tension between the media and the family and the prosecution that's borne out on some of these motions and some of these other things. That we're seeing because we think everything should be shown. I mean, blood is blood, they're bloody

crime scenes. This is what happened. You gotta know how these people died. You got to see it. I mean it's part of a murder trial and there's eight victims, all shot multiple times, so it's part of the deal. In this same area of the living room, you identify that as being on the floor. Did you also find what appeared to be blood's flatter on the wall? Yes,

we did. Is there anything that sticks out the end with respect any personality of that blood or even that First of all, there's a lot of blood stains on this wall, and in my training that all of these stains from what I see are descending stains, which means

they are traveling down when they struck this wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, that is an indication of a lot of anger, because you would think that anybody that was familiar enough with firearms that would show up into some con environment would also know what kind of forces being

brought there. With just one shot, you should be able to recognize that you don't really need that many, But for some reason, the perpetrator found it necessary to lay into Chris Senior, specifically to make sure that he was totally completely eradicated that he would not rise again. How did you take that slab? Where'd you submitted to and was that eventually submitted to the lab for DNA testing. I believe that eventually it was submitted for DNA testing

to determine actually which victim's blood. This was the swabs from the staining contained in that exhibit. The living room of four zero seven seven Union Hill Road, also depicted in photo ID number eighteen, tested positive for blood and the DNA profile of the blood from this swab contains Chris Rodent Senior's DNA. One family member burries are facing their hands, another covers her mouth and wipes away tears.

If Chris Senior was still alive lying on the floor at the next bit of evidence may explain what happened in the last moments of his life. As you were doing your examination of this area, did you also find a projectile strike in the floor by that rocker recliment, Yes, sir, it was quite some time later before that we were at a point in our processing and our investigation that I was able to move that chair. When we did

move the chair. That's when it was we noticed that there was a bullet hole, or a suspected bullet hole in the floor right next to the chair. It appeared that it was going from above down. We knew that it came from inside going down toward the floor, and assumed that it may have exited under the mobile home. Todd Fortner explains further, and at some point, did you actually use rods to try to determine the angle that

that bullet may have gone through that floor? Yes, it's a fairly steep downward angle, so the muzzle of the weapon was fairly close. A second hole was found here and the rod then will extend downward through that hole. And did you find again that second hole to be in line or intrajectory with that first hole that you accept the riding Yes? Were you able to track that hole through that joice beneath that trailer, Yes, we were

able to track it down into the ground. At that point, another agent Durst, crawled under the trailer and recovered one of the bullets. What did you notice about that projectile with didn't go It was a hollow point appeared to be a pistol projectile that had not expanded. Basically, the way a hollow point bullet works is a softer substance. Human tissue is designed to go in and expand those metal pedals out in order to create a larger wound track.

Joseph Scott Morgan, most people when they think of a bullet projectile, they'll think of what'll refer to as a ball ammunition. That's a bullet that kind of has a rounded nose on it. That's kind of the traditional image that you think about. So if you have a forty caliber round that's being fired out of a weapon, forty caliber is pretty much much what you're going to get with ball ammunition that can deform and all those sorts of things, but the diameter of the round is not

going to change that much. However, when you start talking about a hollow point, what happens is that once that round passes out of the end of the muzzle and it winds up on its targeted area, these little the only way I can really describe it, are these little wings essentially kind of deploy. You have a forty caliber round that suddenly deploys out upwards a forty five caliber

Fortner explains why the bullets they found didn't deploy. If it hits something hard, for instance, would concrete, potentially even bone, before hitting enough of a quantity of soft tissue to expand, it will basically just dent the front of it and it will keep going and would basically become a non

hollow point projectile. Of the non training experience that I didn't hit like soft tissue, the bullets themselves kind of speak to you as a crom scene investigator, I do recall something where the actual sequencing of the gunfire tells a story this vividly because you give an idea of when this horror is just visited upon Chris Senior along with Gary, there's an awareness, I think you know that the world is kind of blown apart in the side

of this home. His arm was mangled, and so he's writhing in pain on the floor, and then you see these other rounds that come from another weapon and they pump them into his body and his life ends right there on the floor. Sadly, it seems Gary Roden suffered a similarly terrifying end. Agent Henshaw found his glasses and baseball cap nearby in the kitchen. Hanshaw opens another envelope

and pulls out Gary Roden's bloodstained hat. As you examined that hole or perforation from the outside, did you notice any blowout or any frame of that hole on the back there that indicated that it was an exit wound as opposed to an entrance hole. Appeared to be what I initially thought it could be. Okay, well, let me ask you this. At some point, did you later learn that when that item was being examined, a possible piece

of a projectile fell out it. Yes, we're able to look at that hat and possibly track where that bullet had actually come out at the front of the hat. At this point, George Wagner's face read and he clenches his jaw, and again, does it appear that that area of the hat had been pulled or torn or ripped away from the half the bill area there? Yes, sir, it does here again, investigative reporter James Pilcher, followed by medical forensics examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Somebody shot Gary Roding

in the back of the head. The bullet went through his head and then knocked his cap off, and the bullet lodged in the bill of his cap. Once hell begins to rain down. You know where all of this is occurring. The door bust open. How did he react at that moment? Top Was he in total shock? Did he have an awareness? Did he know that Chris Seniors screamed out as his arm was kind of blown apart?

Did he rushed to his side? And we don't really know that part, but in my mind, I'll imagine that you know the same person that exerted domin over Chris Senior. Potentially it would have been very easy, as Gary is kind of tending to this dear family member, is for somebody to have just simply ended his life execution style as he stands over and pumps this round into the back of his head. Can you tell us what we're looking at and where we're heading there? A two, one four.

We'll be standing in this general area again, this being the kitchen chairs here, and you're beginning to see blood patterns. At some point, did you continue to move through that residence back towards the back bedroom where the body's were, Yes, sir, I did He found Chris and Gary at the foot of the bed covered in a blanket. After taking photos of the entire room, Hanshaw carefully removed the blanket to

further document the bodies. You tell us it's depicted in this picture, and what you're trying to show, trying to show the original position of the hands of the victim. The victims family members are having an incredibly hard time with the graphic photos. Someone allowed themselves to look up at the screen where the photos are being projected. Others weep openly. A four to fifty once again, as a photograph of our victim's hand, showing obviously blood and some

the condition of the clothing as well. Okay, when we're talking victim is just the first victim, Chris Rodin, Yes, it is. When you look at his body position, did you find his arms to be up over his head and his sweatshirt rolled back over his head. Yes. When they got to Gary and Chris Senior's bodies to do their examinations, their hands were above their heads, the shirts

sweatshirts were pushed up. Now for us, that's an indication that a body has been drug Yes, this would be the arm of Gary Rodin, and it extends out parallel with the bed and there's saturation stains or a large amount of blood on the exterior of the jacket. In that photograph, you can see a lot of blood around the mouth and those discoloration around the eyes, and then what I thought appeared to be a bullet hole near

the ear. And did you continue to document or get closer pictures of what you believed to be a bullet hole, Yes, sir, I did. What is the purpose of taking those pictures with respect to that body at the seat? I want to document this as much as possible. I can't control what anybody else does after these bodies are taken out of my care or after I'm going, so I want to document them as they were, as I found them

to essentially settle back and understand. Anything that I do with the bodies, I can move it slightly and it takes it completely out of context. So he was probably directed, tell your people to take the bodies out this specific way, and you know when it comes to Christine or and Gary, that's important. Hanshaw testifies that along with the photographs, his team took hundreds of blood sample swabs from the home and the bodies of Chris and Gary Rodin. They also

used what is called a forensic vacuum. Tell the jury what a forensic vacuum is and how a forensic vacuum works. That's relatively sample. We have a small vacuum that are designated for that purpose, and that purpose only would be to look for trace evidends such as hairs, fibers, anything residual that might have been left behind them there. We would seal that bag and then I normally would put that bag in another bag and put my label and

my signature on. If I'm wearing a mask of hood and gloves, is that going to impede my DNA from going somewhere where you're going to vacuum it up with your forensic vacuum. Yes, it can. If Eady Wilson drags those bodies to the back of the bedroom and I've got gloves on, Am I gonna leave touch DNA? Most likely not, But you do that anyways just in case. Is that correct? Yes, at that particular time, you have no idea if a suspect was wearing gloves or not

wearing gloves. Here's Jeff speaking with Joseph Scott Morgan. Here we are a couple of weeks into the trial. The prosecution still has this a DNA problem. The more cases that cover personally the more I hear this cry, you know, from the public, where's the DNA? Was the DNA? Jurors walk in and they are expecting DNA in every single case, And I'm sorry, that's not accurate. It's not going to

happen every single time. You know, if you have a barrier between your hand and surface that you place that hand upon, there is not much of an opportunity for you to shed these dead skin cells that will have an incomplete strand of DNA in them. It makes it difficult for the prosecution. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.

He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about of anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw

him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned and I just said, no,

we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when find yourself at that line. Thout ricin, arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth. This is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen. To speak out disgrace to our gun. Evil play should be prosecute.

When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to The Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have

been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment. Girl. You and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.

The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Verne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, be sure to subscribe and share. Hello and welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside britain stately homes and tells all the tales the guide books don't. My name is Tom

Burton and I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than bucking and Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping stories

of these stately homes and the people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking and hilarious tales. So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucous, and downt and dirty, look no further. Listen to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts

or wherever you get your podcasts. After hours of testimony centered on blood and projectile evidence in the home, the prosecution turns to Chris Senior Garage and the space above it. Investigator Henshaw was initially drawn to the security cameras we thought it appeared as though it were pointing toward the residents. Okay, at some point, did that pique your interest to try to go find a DDR or recording device that might

be linked to that gammer. Yes, we attempted to look for any kind of recording device that would have maybe documented what happened or given us some idea will trace the wires back. They led inside and we found nothing, no recording device connected to this system. They tested the disconnected wires for DNA in case the perpetrators had handled them. There was nothing. But the door into the building also

stood out to h and Handshaw. Did you examine that door a little more further for other evidence or the possibility about dents. Two things stood out to me. One as it appeared as though there was forced entry, I would would be consistent with the door handle lying on the upper surface of the porch. And the second thing is that appeared to be a transfer, a small transfer of blood on the exterior face of that door. This doesn't look like a spatter pattern. It looks like a

transfer pattern. The difference would be a transfer would be if I had blood on my hand and I touched this paper or something else and then moved it away, I probably wouldn't leave blood that I transferred from my hand onto that surface. Did you eventually take steps to identify that according to your BCI numbers and try to collect that blood for further testing? Yes, those swabs were

sent to the lab for testing that stain. Are those swabs tested positive for the presence of blood and the blood contained in those swabs contained the DNA of Gary Road. The defense has a few questions for either of the

BCI agents, but they do offer one final stipulation. When things are stipulated to, it is an agreement that's entered into between defense counsel and prosecution that they will stipulate to that bit of evidence, that they're not going to argue it, they're not going to debate it during this time. The parties have another stipulation, all right, put that on

the record. Ent. Yes, the parties will stipulate and agree that with respect to four zero seven seven Union Hill Road, none of the evidence collected or examined with respect to that scene contained any DNA that was linked to George Wagner, this defendant Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner, or Billy Wagner. That's correct. That's the voice of Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson conceding there was no DNA evidence linking any of the Wagner family to the site where relatives found Chris Roden Senior and

his cousin Gary dead in April twenty sixteen. There's no DNA Avidage. People who were not involved in the system, it's the first thing out of their mouth. Well, d DNA Avidage. Well, for me, the shoe prints till everything. We've been using shoe prints for over one hundred years now. I mean, it's been accepted in courtrooms in a lot of different places as valid science. It was a massacre, but it didn't seem as though they went back to kind of cover their traces. I think they did take

a lot of steps. But there's no such thing as the perfect crime. The term criminal mastermind is kind of an exymoron because criminals generally aren't masterminds, and they often make mistakes which leads in that convict and this is one of those examples. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw,

Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties,

and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them one of the spot barremout. On paper he was perfect, but in reality, this guy is a wacome. He shouted to the point she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily for years have been on the road,

playing shows and seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music, venues and culture of a new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

you get your podcasts. Right, I'm Freedom and I'm Marthy. We have spent the last twenty years building and working at some of the largest companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check out the Art and Treeom show. That is a R D HI and S R I R A M Show. Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.