In Their Own Words

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

get your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday. We explore the live music venues and culture of a new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to

when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I kept seeing like helicopters and cops passing this coming back the other way, and I've seen her grandma, her grandma from me. She's gone, all right, He's kind of frozen. Angela ran out of the Peterson Road house to chase Tabatha up with a shotgun.

Gac and George followed, and Panna was told by Jake not to leave the house or he would chop off her wgs. This is the Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County season four, episode ten. In their own words, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios, along with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's been a revealing,

gut wrenching try all thus far. While the jury has heard reams of incriminating evidence against Jake Wagner, we must remember that Jake, who's already pled guilty, is not the one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against George Wagner himself has been far more scant. There's no DNA evidence that puts George at the Roden's homes on the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. There's also no evidence that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle with Hanname Roden.

On the other hand, the defense has thus far failed to produce an alibi for where George was during the night of the killings. It's important to note that George Wagner the fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not

guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. It appears that Angie Kinnepp were the special prosecutor is really telling us a story right now, painting a picture about the lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly a mesh together, but so far nothing very specific that implicates George specifically to that night. What the prosecution is trying to do is really paint the picture that all four of them

were in on this together from the start. And look, we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family. They technically operated like a mob or like a cult in that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George. But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family. But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder?

I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up, which is just how many witnesses there are as we have seen the state is really telling a full story from start to finish, which includes a lot of people that don't on the surface, have anything to do with the actual night in question. I spoke to legal analysts and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution.

They can have three or three hundred, it's all up to them, and all they have to do is provide a witness list to the judge and defense during the discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right, so three hundred witnesses would be pretty extreme if we're telling a peripheral story. Judge Deering did have to approve each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it

is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial. Where is it one thing to hear bad things and to know that, frankly, the Wagoners may have just been very bad people. Is that enough or do we need to have more evidence, specifically putting George at the scene.

I'm so curious about how that plays out. The following testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan, and also uncovers testimony that for the first time shows that George was in fact in his family's Thrall, good afternoon, how are you. It's good? Can you please state your name? And why don't you go ahead and spell your first name and spell your last name? Alan Holdron, c r e Y Joel Drian Corey. How old are you be? Thirty? Next months? Pay nine? And can you tell us where you live?

You okay? Corey Holdron was Hannahme Rodin's boyfriend at the time of her death. When they began dating, Hannahme was pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with ex boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Corey Holdron committed to Hannah because he wanted a family and was in love with Hannah. Ma, she's not love man's in love with her. I mean she's the best thing at me really was in our relationship. We never fought. She helped me through everything. And can you tell tell us at the time that you started

seeing her, did you have an addiction problem? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that's a dragadic and to painting pills. And she laid on my side, said on my side through the whole withdrawals and all the everything, you know what I mean. Nobody would do that. Nobody does that unless she loves somebody. And she did going through at all. And and you did you make a commitment to her unborn child as well? Yeah, because well she wasn't with Jake, she was separated from him,

and she said it wasn't his. She told me who it was. Who it was, Charlie Gillies, which Hannah's brother. I was dying for her family, you know what I mean. And I told him that if he agrees to step back and just let me, you know, don't all of us, that I would take care of her and I would name her. And so I did. I named her Britain, kind of my kind of Billiard. I was the first one to hold her. So you stayed with her rat for pregnancy. And you were actually at the hospital when

she gave her yeah, up to the day water actually yeah, yeah? Um. And did you also go to some of her appointments with her priority. Yeah. According to Corey Holdron, Hannah May was also a devoted mother to the little girls she shared with Jake Wagner. She's a great mom. Yeah, She's really mom and ever seen her yador and every senior hate her or nothing like that. Corey continued speaking about when Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with Hannah

May to see her newborn sister in the hospital. During this visit, Jake implied that the baby could be his because she had a toe shaped like him and his family members. I didn't make it fussing out or anything. He was just all the different though, dark hair, dark black hair, like I don't know, it was just different. He got the holder and everything like like it was

like it was his thought. Kid, He like like, I don't know, he thought it was his maybe Okay, And do you remember any comments um that he made about any of the physical characteristics, something about her toe like like something that he goes a wagoner thing. I don't know what was wrong with it. I hadn't seen anything wrong with it, but commented something about her toby and a wager thing. Yeah, we're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher,

and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen ninety in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town. Bob, he spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted into the point that she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob,

us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd

never confronted us situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line. Aren't ricin and somebody needs to just for once, give everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are

the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to speak out disgrace to our gun. Evil play should be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's the Very Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cock Show. You may remember

my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things people like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. They will take things away and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl

Harbor moment. Girl, You and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece and so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.

Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share everybody. We know they're are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we would love for you to check out. It is called The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scovell. We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, but now most of all, we are your pen pals. Every single episode we get two letters that we read

from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be about anything going on in their life, and sometimes we're also joined by guests like Will Farrell. You're gonna bring you up in front of the group. I'm gonna punch you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose burn. This is West Hollywood. Keep it clean. That considered, Brian, I'm just showing you that my mind is quick, if not that funny. And Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the

line together. Listen to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and cirely your new pen Pals Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobel. When Corey Holtron learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter Kendra that the love of his life, Hanname Rodin, was killed, he was in shock. I got up. I was around eight, maybe it was learner than that, but I wondered. My sisters and me and her wife got in her truck and

we went to Quarter Lamber. Like I kept seeing like helicopters and like cops and like crazy like passionists going back the other way. I thinking of it, you know what I mean, I've went to the quarter. We got to Carter Lamber and by the time we got there and pulled in, Kindred called me and said that something happened that I needed to get to her house. Now. She went telling me, really what happened? She said, they're wrong I know what's up, man, So I had my

sister's wife turn them around and go there. So Bibe went down instead down thirty two. We went down, said seventy two the backside, you know. And that time I got on her road. They stopped this right by her brother's house. And I've seen her grandma and her grandma father me. She's going, all right, he's gonna froze. I think I didn't and it feel anything. I didn't understand it. Yeah. Corey explained that he, Hannah May, and Kendra all went

fishing together before the night of the murderers. It was a rainy afternoon and Hannah was all smiles as she railed in a big catfish, but the mood soured when Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see if he could watch their daughter for the night. Here's Anteinette Levy, reporter for Law and Crime. Hannah May had just given birth to her newborn daughter and apparently wanted to get out of the house, so they had someone watched the newborn and they were out fishing and Jake Wagner actually she said,

which I thought was pretty stead. Kendra said that Jake texted Hannah May and offered to keep How chilling is that? Here again, Stephanie and Jeff, We've heard a lot about Corey Holdron over the years and have never personally connected to him. We have reached out over the years, but respectfully didn't want to push too hard. So his testimony

is so interesting to me. First of all, we've always heard that he is so kind and so nice, and so sweet and was so in love with Hannah May, so you can only imagine the destruction that has come for him thereafter. We've heard over the years of multiple times the story about Jake Wagner visiting Hannah May in the hospital with her newborn baby, but to hear it firsthand with Corey Holdron on the stand in the courtroom

is a much different experience. Following Corey Holdron, another witness came to the stand and offered explosive testimony, this time very focused on George Wagner the fourth It was the first and a critically important juncture in the trial where George's character came under scrutiny. The witness is Tabitha Clayton, George's ex wife. She had a highly volatile and traumatic history with the accused murderer. Like Jake and Hannah, Tabitha and George were embroiled in their own custody battle over

their son. Tabitha and George met when Tabitha's mother was working for the Wagner matriarch Frederica at her Flying w farm. The pair married in two thousand and twelve, had a son in the summer of twenty thirteen, and lived with Angela, Jake and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and George ultimately divorced in

twenty fifteen. Tabitha explains how being with George came with a litany of rules and restrictions that came down from Angela Wagner life was taxing here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa, examining Tabitha on the stand, if you could just tell us what the family dynamics were there when you lived with the Wagner's. Very strange and controlling. Okay, So you said previously that you were not allowed to visit your family, and your family was not permitted to visit you, correct, yes,

And who made those determinations? It was Angela's house, so's hurdles and so are you saying that it was Angela's choices, yes, okay, And did George go along with those choices? Yes? And can you tell us you said Angel's house, Angela's rules that apply to anything other than just your family coming and going, and applied basically everything. So tell us about that cooking, cleaning, laundry and what do you mean by

that at all? How to be done the way that she wanted it or have to either redo it or she'll just do it or something. Angela Wagner had a ban on certain types of sex that should be allowed within George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to some, she also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha, every night, Angela Wagner would kick Tabitha out of the bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have some alone time with her son. She would scratch his

back while they caught up on the day. What were the rules that Angela had before? The types of sexual relations you could engage in with your husband. He wasn't allowed to give blowjobs because you'd go to hill and you had to only have sex to have children. And is that something that she said to you? She said it to me and George booth okay? When you were together, Yes, where would you be when those conversations would occur? Usually

at the kitchen table or in the bedroom? Whose bedroom George's? Okay? And would you stay in George's bedroom as long as I was allowed to? Yes? So when you say, as long as you were allowed to tell me what you're talking about? Towards the end of the night, she would usually have me leave so she could sit there and scratch his back and talk about the day. So Angela would come into the room that you shared with your husband, Yes, and she would ask you to leave, and then she

would scratch his back and talk about the day. Yes. How frequent of an occurrence was that every night? And after she was done with that, would you return to the room. Yes. After you had your son, where would he sleep most of the time? He would sleep with Angela and Billy? And again was that your choice? No? Where did you want your son to sleep with me in my bed or at least in the crib that was bought for him? Okay? And where was that crib

located next to my bed? And who made the decision that he would sleep with Angela and Billy instead of with you, George and Angela? Can you tell us or I guess I should say, had you ever shared with George that you had been sexually abused as a child? I did, but only because he had found up by somebody else. Can you tell us what was George's reaction to that? He was mad. He said he was going to go kill him, and I told him know and

I said on him until he calmed down. The Wagner's rules tightened around Tabitha after they learned she had chiefe on George. From Tabitha's point of view, her infidelity was a reaction to the family suffocating way of life. Was there a time when you were unfaithful to George after you were married? Yes? Okay? And was it during the time that you were working at Crystal Springs? Yes? Did George and the rest of them you only find out

about them? Yes? You ultimately told them. Yes? And at that point did the restrictions in your life get even more severier? Yes? Tell us what happened then? I had gotten let go for my job. George took my phone from me and factor he said it, gave it to his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer the house phone or check the mill or go outside by myself. And when you informed them of this at that time where you pregnant, Yes, okay. So you remained at the home

with the Wagner's. Yes, and then you remained there until approximately a year after your son was born. Correct. Yes? Did you feel when you were there that you could parent your child in the way that you wanted to? No, tell us about that. Every night before we went to bed, I would be made to go take a nap while Angela played with mission. So again, just more of the her spending time with your child that you wanted to

spend time with. Yes, okay. Did you ever tell George or have any discussions with him about wanting to have your own place and no longer living with the extended family? Yes? Okay? And what was his response? That we lived on a farm, so we needed to live together. He was not interested in moving out. Here's Stephanie. We met Tabitha's sister and her mom years ago, and they've always think of this picture about what life was like for Tabitha. We've also

reached out to her over the years. This is a very big moment hearing her testimony for the first time. Now finally hearing from her. I mean, imagine she's facing the person who is on trial, her ex husband. She's going to have to lock eyes with him and really tell some stories, perhaps for the very first time. Again it asks the question if Angela Wagner had a very

strange relationship with her sons. You know, we've always heard this over the years, that she would cuddle with them, and she would alienate the women who came into their lives aka Tabitha also Hannah may rodin what does that mean? Does that matter? If George didn't commit this murders, then none of this matters whatsoever. He was perhaps a bad husband,

but again that doesn't make him a murderer. But if he did do it and is convicted this, certainly it's a very clear picture of a destructive and dysfunctional home, but none of it really guarantees that George was there, or that George was a trigger puller. Let's stop here for another break. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages,

he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I

would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.

You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin. R's ricin, and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, thinks are going to happen this week out disgrace to our gun, evil and pol prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is the last

line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things people like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what

they're doing is evil. They will take things away and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment or you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, You know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting

around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share everybody. We know there are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we

would love for you to check out. It is called The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scoville. We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, but now most of all, we are your pen pals. Every single episode we get two letters that we read from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be about anything going on in their life, and sometimes we're

also joined by guests like Will Ferrell. I'm gonna bring you up in front of the group and I'm gonna punch you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose Burns. This is West Hollywood. We keep it clean, Jotapato if you use by dre is that considered Colona o' brian, I'm just showing you that my mind is quick, if not that funny, and Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the line together. Listen to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. Sincerely, your new pen Pals, Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobel. One night thing spun out of control. After Tabitha didn't do the dishes that Angela had told her to do, George Wagner turned physically abusive. Tabitha says, this is the first testimony we've heard about him being violent. Hell us, I'm Tabitha. We've talked a little bit about how long you stayed there, what made

you leave? When you left, me and George were in an argument in his slap okay, And if you can tell us, first of all, do you recall when that happened? A couple of months after my son's first birthday? Okay? And when was your son born? Again? Is that July of twenty thirteen, you said, a few months after his first birthday? Yes, And can you tell us what led up to that argument? Me not cleaning the kitchen after Angela had made lunch. After Angela had done what made lunch? Okay?

And so tell us about that. How did you know you were supposed to do that? She told me to get it cleaned up while her and Hannah went to pick up a toy for the kids. And did you do that? Why not? Because my son had woke up, so I led with him to take a nap so he could take a nap. Okay, was your son already napping at the time that, Yes, Angela asked you to do that. Okay, And we are where the rest of the people were with Jake and George at that time?

They were I think Jake was with Billy driving the truck and George was building the shed that is beside the house. Okay, Angela and Hannah come back and see that it didn't clean up the mess. So what happens then? Then me and Angelis start to argue, Okay, did you explain to her what had happened? Yes? And what happened then George didn't like that I was yelling at his mother.

How did you know he didn't like that what happened He came in and started smacking me with a built And we are in the house where you at that time in the kitchen doorway, and what happened? Then we went to the bedroom and when you see me, who do you mean? Me and George? And what happened there? He abducted your honor? Another basis is over um what happened in the bedroom? Um? I was going to go out and sit on the porch so I could calm down,

and I'll be so angry. So you wanted to go outside to just be by yourself, calm down and not be as angry? Yes, okay? Were you permitted to go outside? You know? How were you not permitted to go outside? George stood in front of the door and went moving. Okay, And what did you do at that point? I bet him and try to rope the nuts off. When you say you bit him? Where did you bite him on his arm up towards his armpit? Okay? And why did you bite that area his arm? What was he doing

at that point? He had his door, his arm against the door, not let me go through it? Did he let you pass? At that point? He grew up? Ahold of the nuts, so his arm moved. So that's where I ran out the door. And then what did you do? I started walking through the yard, and then George and Angela came outside to try to tell me to come

back inside. And what happened outside? I told him that I was not going to go back inside, that I was going to leave, and so angel through a board at me and then told George that she's going to go inside to get a gun. When you say she threw aboard at you, what kind of a board? All right? Too good for? And both Angela and George were outside with you at that point, yes, okay, and then Angela said she's going to go get a gun. Yes. At

any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah, before the argument got really worse. We were outside and we were arguing, and he told man, I needed to stop screaming. Where I was going to smack me? And so I screamed out her and so he smacked me. And where did he smack you? In the face? And then what was your response to that? And I told him that he just signed his two worspapers, that he signed his dark because sacked Yes. So when Angela says

She's going to go get a gun. What do you do? I continue going to her home, the yard and through the face and I hid underneath the George's truck. And to your knowledge, where were George for Angela? I assume they were going in to get whichever gun they chose. More on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie

Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wider, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tua. Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more our podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.