George Wagner Takes the Stand

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

get your podcasts. This is the unbelievable but true story of George Remus. He was an eccentric and genius lawyer who figured out how to game the system during Prohibition. Remus is the biggest man in the business, but George Remus's wild existence took a dark and shocking turn, leading to betrayal, revenge, and one of the most sensational murder trials in American history. Listen to Remus the Mad Bootleg King every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcasts. LA is expansive. There's nearly ten million people living here and it comes with a lot of noise. But if you tune those sounds out and listen close, you'll hear the real LA. What a be bargim I'm going to be a father? Are you feeling this? A fiction podcast? Mixtape about love? Listen to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Are you aware at any time that Jake and your dad your mom will planned to kill

the road now? Was that ever disgusted? No, he said, straight up. We don't get along. He said there were times he wanted to leave, and I wondered if that was really true, and maybe he did want to leave, but he didn't do it describe your relationship Nae. I loved Anna as a baby sister. I personally was surprised that the things specifically said, were you there? Did you do anything you know about it? Any time? When did you find out that they were guilty or that they

had actually participated. I never would have believed my family would be capable of doing something about magnitude. This is the pig did massacre? Returned to Pike County season four, episode twenty one, George Wagner takes the stand. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's important to note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone.

His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. Facing a mountain of evidence and testimony placing George Wagner the fourth at the center of the plot to kill the Rodent family, his lawyers made a surprising decision to call him to the stand. The unexpected move was described as a quote hail Mary by many trial watchers. During his testimony, George Wagner's lawyers

painted him as the black sheep of the family. During the first day of his testimony, George calmly disputed nearly everything that had been said about him by other witnesses. Describing his criminal upbringing. George Wagner frequently spoke of wanting to escape from his own family. Today, it was a bombshell day, if you will, of testimony. For nine weeks, George Wagner the Fourth has sat quietly as a parade of witnesses, from police investigators to his own brother and

mother picked apart his claim of innocence and ignorance. George, you love justice, microphone for him. Just keep your voice up real loud. Please stage your full name for the record. George Washington Wagner the fourth, You've been sitting in this trial for any weeks? Yes, But on the forty second day of the child wearing a white collar dress shirt, dark tie, and a gray vest, George Wagner took the

stands in his own defense. His attorney began by asking George to describe the troubled environment he grew up in. So let's talk about your education first. Okay, did you ever go to a public school for a very short period of time. So how did you get your education? My mother homeschool but George Wagner's homeschooling didn't last long. By the age of fourteen, his official education was over. It was replaced by a different type of education. Why did I felt that I didn't need anymore and I

just wanted to do my own thing? My father quitnessed sixth grade? And so what did you want to do? What did you do with your wife? Did you have any kids or aspiration? When I was a young kid, I wanted to be either a game warden or a forrester, And when I got older, my father pushed me more towards being a deesel mechanic and a trup driver. Why was that my father getting want nobody in a family that wore a badge? Why was that he thought all

law enforcement was crooked? George Wagner said when he was young, he and his father had a great relationship and that the pair spent many days hunting and fishing together. But his father, Billy Wagner, was also responsible for George Wagner's other education. And your youth, did he teach you other things? My father taught me how to open a lock, how to steel fuel, how to steel loads or break into loads?

How did he actually do it? He bought a like a lock pick set, comes with like a whole bunch of different locks and picks, and then you sit us down for hours until we can figure out how to open it. And what would would do? If anything? Would you want you learn how to do that? After my brother and I learned how to do it, he would go from like hotel to hotel in different counties and open the vending machines in him. Would he do it? Usually? You have my brother do it. My brother can open

a lock in a matter of seconds. Well what about you? Three to four minutes? So your brother was a little better picking locks than yes, but your dad took both of you your round to pick one. Yes of locks? Would u padlocks? Vending machine locks was the most common door locks on trucks. Ignition, which is what would be the purpose? Um the vending machines? Yeah? He would take the coin box and the cash box out of him.

And did he teach you anything else around that? Just how to break in the trailers and five back the loads and um, and with the loads you go around and take the padlock and the hinges off so you don't break the seal. It's it's the seal is broken. It's instantly. Somebody's been in it. So you got to take the inge off and open it without it. But you see what's in the trailer. If it's something you wanted, then you unloaded. If it's not, you put the handback on.

No way, every knows it was opened, all right? And your brother was with you, yes, all right? And he would pick out the truck. Yes. Did he have any methods or codes or anything like that as far as how would you pick out a certain fundum? Usually it had to end up being a company truck. But Walmart was like the one he went after more than anything. And why was that he despises Walmart? I don't know why. Now,

did your mother know about these activities? Yes, she was there ninety nine nine percent at the time she was in the truck. Yes, and she knew your father was teaching. Yes. Were there are other things that your father taught you around how to steal fuel fuel? Yes, so your dad taught you to steel fuel and picklocks. When you would go out with your father, would he ever teach you to look out for things or not look out for

things is or anything like that. So the job was you were always supposed to make sure you could see a talk before they seeing you, or to know where every camera was, all right, So why would you explain how we touched it? It really goes active when I was a kid and he was still around in Pennsylvania a lot for every company, and my brother would see we'd get a dollar when we were a kid, all right, And that goes back to like eight years old, even before he started the theft, and how long did that?

We're candle eleven. He would go around and start out with the we go down one street or something, and if we missed one that he missed and we'd lose four wheeler for a week, or if he pointed one out that we didn't see, we get four wheller taken for a week. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. The fact that George Wagner took the stand in his own defense unexpectedly. Nobody in the courtroom was anticipating him to take the stand that day, and I have to say he was

very composed. He seemed very prepared. I mean, think about it. The stakes could not be higher for him, and when he describes his childhood, it's almost as though he was born into a family of con artists. You know, here he is being taught how to pick padlocks and steel fuel and steel coins from vending machines. These are crimes. Granted, they are petty crimes in nowhere equivalent to murder, but it does paint a picture of what was happening in

his early days. It's possible that the defense was feeling the pressure and decided it can't hurt to have George Wagner take the stand. And I think he did a pretty good job. He does not seem emotional to me. He seems more credible than Jake and Angela Wagner. Now it might be different because Jake and Angela Wagner's stories lineup he said, she said versus he said. I mean,

he's extremely prepared for this moment. You know, we might be surprised, but I imagine this is something he and his lawyers were working on for weeks and probably running through potential questions and potential answers. So for him, this is the culmination of probably a lot of practice. And remember accused killer Dad Wagner. He's very anti government anti law enforcement. We've heard many, many stories about him preparing

for the end of days. So the other side of this is, you know, they live in a very rural area. In the event of a disaster, Billy Wagner wanted to make sure that their kids were prepared and could survive in any situation. That's the nice way of framing it. But the truth wis they were stealing, and they were stealing on a very high level at a very young age. If I'm the Rodent family, I'm thinking, I don't care.

There's no excuse for allegedly murdering eight people. To me, you know, you got your ATV taken away as a kid. I don't know how that equates to being a part of an eight person homicide. But again, I mean this

whole case. You know, we've heard a lot of things that we don't think irrelevant, and what the jury's thinking and what the judge's thinking, we can't say, yeah, I mean, it's interesting context because obviously George Wagner's attorneys are really painting a picture of a I who was considered maybe

second best to his brother. Much has been made about perhaps Jake was favored by his parents and that George was always the outcast in trying to step away from the family and maybe look away from their scams and cons and just try to get out to make a better life for himself. It matters, maybe because it offers some insight into how he just has always been used to ignoring them, and maybe that's how he was able to ignore the fact that his family was commiserating to

murder eight people. Or is that just wildly far fetched it's now decades later. Does that excuse you of what you're being accused of? On the other hand, it also does paint a picture of how people are potentially indocrinated into really dangerous behavior. By the time George Wagner was a teenager, he said he was growing apart from his own family and that he was growing closer to his uncle, Chris Newcomb. The two regularly went hunting and rode ATVs

around the farm. Let's talk about Chris for a moment. Explain your relationship with Chris. Chris is more like a brother than me than an uncle. Why do you say that we were almost identical and everything we like and do and what type of things would you do? Gil muddon hunting, fishing, just to see how far we could go on four Wilder in a day. And would Jake be part of this in his own way? Sometimes? Yes?

He was always left behind? And why was he He didn't want to get his four or his dirt mike whoever he had dirty and he'd run like two mile an hour? And how we're doing Christ? Kind of like a bad old help George Wagen said his brother Jake preferred to play video games and to play with action figures. He had hundreds of them. Every dime he got as a young kid, he spent on action figures. He would set him up on the shelf and stare at them

for hours. And did you play with him as well? No, but I would go in and move them when he wasn't there, just to see if he knows it. And you could move with like a centimeter, he'd know. And did that ever cause him many Mania fights? Would you do that just to kind of double your brother? Just to antagonizing antagonizing? Did he have any particular video games he liked? Marvel Universe, Resident Evil, Left or Dead that's

another one. I can't remember what it was. What other type of things would you and Chris Dowet you got old right party run girls. Wagner testified he started drinking alcohol at age thirteen and was partying regularly. Around the time he was eighteen years old, George met Frankie Rodin the pair became quick friends. Did you consider it a good friend or I can set you one of my best friends? George said his life change once he got

his driver's license. He made new friends and was able to get away from his mother Angela and brother Jake. Why's it because I have freedom free and I could leave when I wanted, I hang out for my uncle or Frankie or Shnam Nathan Walls, Garrett Leaf all right? And did that cause any problems back home? On about hood? My mom was never happy about it. She always said that I was leaving my brother to do all the work and I needed to be more like him to

stay home. Around the time George got his driver's license, his father, Billy Wagner, bought him a use Chevy pickup truck for about twenty five hundred dollars, but even that purchase created lasting tension because Billy Wagner also bought a more expensive pickup for Jake. He got his three or four months before mine. My mother made my father buy it for him, all right, was a cheap truck, an expensive true. He was sixteen thousand dollars, so he got

this sixteen thousand dollar truck before he got any true. Yes, And how did that make you feel? Considering the one I wanted was I was told no for and then a couple of weeks later they bought my brother's truck that was the same price. Not a good feeling for a fifteen year old. Did you express your feeling? I brought it up many times for my entire life A little bit. Yes, still there with freedom and new friends. George Wagner spent most of us free time partying with

Frankie Rodin at nearby Big Bare League. Describe the drinking parties or whatever. Did you played drinking games and drinking till one of us fell out, which was usually me? Right? Did you enjoy them? Yes? Did that cause any problems back at the home one? Yeah? My mother didn't let me being down there. Why not? She said it was a bad environment and bad influences and I was basically going to end up sending myself to hell from it. And how would she tell you that? Or when would

tell you that? Almost daily. George testified that his mother Angelo regularly berated him for his immoral lifestyle, also that she viewed Jake as an angel. When my mother had him paranoid that he was going to go to hell, and she kept beating into everybody's head if you do anything that you're making Jesus cry and you're gonna end up going to hell. She would say that all the time. If you say one curse word, or if you do

anything which she thought was that appropriate. What would say that you're in, you know, going down a entirely bad road, or you're making Jesus cry for this or that, or depending on the situation, What was your reaction? I really didn't have one. I get what I wanted to do. What about Jake was always terrified of going down? How would you describe Jake as compared to you at this point? We are nothing alike? And how would you describe your relationship as you went through your team. I experien as

much time away from Jake as I possibly could. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. I hope nobody thinks I got this story because I slept with the guy. So how does the half American, half Nicaraguan party girl from New Orleans with absolutely no journalism experience. Great, the biggest story of the eighties. That's what journalist is all about. I'm a woman not wearing a bra, curses like a sailor. I got balls bigger than any man, and rather used to call me his

secret weapon. Pablo gave me half a pound of cocaine for a wedding. We work hard, but we party even harder because you never knew it's the next day's battle was going to be the one they killed. Up in the air, I heard three somethings. I looked at one soldier and I said, that's not a good sound. Is Oh, we're going dead? And I said, what do you mean? We're going down? And then we started to go down. Listen to Journalist to every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. They say history is written by the victors, but you know what they've left out A hell of a lot of juicy stuff. Take Abe Lincoln's assassination. Did you know a young couple was sitting right next to him when he was shot? It haunted the husband so much he later murdered his wife. Ah, we all know who invented that, right, and we'll think again. Truth is Alexander Graham. Bell stole the idea for the

telephone and then claimed it as his own. For every pivotal moment in history, there's always a backstory, and it's usually way more interesting than the big story. From mysterious murders to the baffling sleep schedules of yesteryear to the fascinating lives of those just outside the limelight. We're going to uncover the forgotten pieces of history you didn't know you needed to know. Listen to the backstory with me Patty Steeles twice a week on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called the girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted into the points she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one

time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Gladwell here, host of Revisionous History, a show about the overlooked and the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else, like our ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extra zeros or witness me after years of fancy public speaking,

learning that I kind of have to start over. The tone that you had throughout the debate was very similar to some of the students that I do work with, and that's what I teach them not to do. We're making more Revisionous History for you this year than ever from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, small towns and shooting rageous and you want to put your thumb up like this, US, you're gonna pull the

trigger with this finger here. Okay, listen to Revisionist History on the iHeart Edo app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. George described his brother Jake as rude and lacking a filter. He goes to somebody's house and he thinks he's dirty. He's gonna tell him your house is filthy. If he thinks you stink, he'll tell you go take a shower. He has no filter. Did that cause a problem. Yes. He insults people, and a lot of my friends and stuff didn't like him being around.

That cause you, yes, because then they didn't want to hang out with me. My brother thinks that he's a saintan can do no wrong, and he's better than everybody. And he thinks that him being honest with people's what people wants to hear about him, opinion of their self. And did that cause a problem with your relationship with the law. Yes. My mother thinks so I should be like him. She's always said that she thinks that he's a saitan does no wrong, and she thinks that I'm

basically going to hell. Here's investigative journalist and law on crime reporter Angjeanette Levy. He made it sound like, you know, Angela favored Jake. He always got in trouble for what Jake did. Jake would blame him for things when they were kids. But I mean, he said, straight up, we don't get along. We'd fight all the time, and sometimes we get along, and then most of the times we didn't.

I can't imagine existing like that. He said there were times he wanted to leave, and I wondered if that was really true, and maybe he did want to leave, but he didn't do it. Later, George told the jury that his younger brother Jake, was also regular at Big Bear Lake, but instead of partying, Jake would hang out with his new thirteen year old girlfriend, Hanname Rodin. He would sit in the tanta around the camp fire back and aren't really was with Hanna all night, but he

wouldn't join in with the drink. No, and he wouldn't let Hanna either. Did Anna try to join sometimes, yes, Jake wouldn't let her go. Do you know what he getting one? Hannah having bad influences or drinking her party At this point in George's testimony. Having set up the tensions between George and his mother and brother, defense attorney John Parker pivoted back to the Wagner's life on Bethel Hill and began to unpack the Wagner's history of criminal activity.

The first house was a single white trailer. My mother tried to earn the house down. That failed because she didn't know what she was doing in the beginning. If there's no air, it's mother's out. And she had everything closed up in the beginning, so just the kitchen, living room Mary burn alright, and your mother set that on fire. She had my father said it on fire, but it was her plan, and she want to talk my father how to do it? All right? Can you remember this

when you were six or seven years old? And what did you think about that when you were a kid? I really had no George said. After his parents remodeled their first trailer, they added a second one, but once again his parents said fire to their newly remodeled home. Two thousand. You were about nine years old, roughly, all right, And what do you mean pay burned that one down to succeeded with that one? Who's dead? My father and

my mother, And how did they vote same? Massive is always a whole bunch of newspapers stuck underneath the fuse box. So at this point in the time, when you're nine years old, approximately your first two homes have been burned by your mom and dad. Yes, later, the Wagoners built a more permanent home in their property. It was nicknamed the quote Kentucky Wonder Mansion, and George said he was fond of this house because he had his own area

that allowed him to leave whenever he wanted. George said he often did this to avoid working with his mother in her breading business. She expected me and my brother to put in eight and ten hour days and basically not get paid for it. So every time she turned her back, I'd be done. And so what did your mom think of that? She'd always fell a fit for me leaving my brother? And did she sell a lot of dogs? Lots of them? Made money at it a lot? And what type of dogs at that point? English bulldogs

and Labrador retrievers? Yes, were they always pure? She would We'll start with the labs. The English bulldogs were legit because it's hard to find something it looks like them. But the labs. If one of the females had eight pups, she would go to the pound and get four or five more that look like them. And if she sold the eight, she'd just say she didn't sell the eight, and then she'd resell the ones that she got from

the pound that may or may not be a lab. Okay, if it had a white spot on a black dog looked identical to a lab, she'd just died the hair. She would die the hair so it would turn it black, and you wouldn't know how the white spot on her? And how long did the dog business go on until it burned? Whatever? We came home from Columbus one night, late at night, and it was laying in ashes all four dog kennels. How many dogs close to a hundred? Did you ever find out? How that dog kill burn?

But the fires didn't stop? George said his parents burnt the Kentucky Wonder Mansion in two thousand and seven. When his parents considered moving to Alaska. However, they decided to stay in Ohio and built a new house, which contained a special room in the basement for a new business opportunity with Chris Roden Senior. All right, what was that? It? Was used for girl marijuana. Explain that it was ten foot wide by forty foot long. All right, and were you ever in the room? Why no, I don't agree

with drugs. George also testified that his family once stole a truckload of boots. From the beginning, my father and other people that he drove with had two choices. Basically, they were either going to take a load of diapers or a load of rocky boots. Who actually hooked the trailer? I can't say. I was not there. I don't know who hooked it. But the plan was either the diapers

or the boots. My mother was pushing for the diapers, and my father and his friends all wanted the boots, so my mother sided with them, and they went with the boots. Okay, so whatever. Then the boots showed up and my dad's friends and hit their family. My dad and my brother and I and my mom unloaded the trailer. So what happened? We unloaded it? He got divided three ways, and then they hauled a trailer out. Why everybody hauled their boots to whoever's house they were going to? And

how many boots are we talking about? Fifty three? One or two? Load thousands, thousands, Yes, and your mom was involved in them. Yes, she helped planet, She helped planet. Yes, And so did you guys get some of the boots. Everybody in Pike County was wearing Rocky boots at that point. Are you aware of any other deaths between two thousand and five twenty fourteen? And fruit mom or dad or families? How many do you want me to go into? Because

I can go for days. George Wagner detailed many other crimes his family committed, from stealing Dell computers to copper wiring after the atoms were sold. George that his father, Billy Wagner, would hide money around the country. Did your dad would tell you something about a pension planet? My father used to say that he buried money across the US in different spots. What do you mean by when he get big, big loads of stuff that he would take in all too, Mexico and cell He would take

the money and bury it. Where would he bury it? Can't say that just now somewhere between here in Texas, That's what he vote. He said multiple places. So if I understand here, he would take a load of copper aluminum, think and he would come back. Yes, Well, would you come back with brown paper bags full of money? How much money? We're twent one hundred and two hundred thousand, depending on what the price of scrap was at that time. How do you know, because my brother and I would

count it. That was your job. Yes, to count that one. Yes, here again, Stephanie and Jeff. This is pretty shocking. It's a pretty wild detail. Two hundred thousand dollars in a little brown bag is a lot of cash. So you're buying scraps, You're stealing scraps of aluminum and copper, and then hiding the money in various places throughout the country. It's a big plan. It shows a lot of thinking. By the way, if any of the wagoners were using some of these clever ways of making money, Lee, imagine

how successful they would be. It takes a lot of thought and preparation and care to even come up with the plan to be able to hide money in various parts of the country. And all of the stealing and the thieving and the arson and the receipts, it's just all used for bad. Does that mean it's not such

a leap to imagine them as murderers? Maybe not? Where I think George Wagner's testimony goes a little off the rails is this section about bearing money and all of the things, because to me, it just makes the whole family only seem more out of their minds, and they looked at themselves as this criminal enterprise who everyone was out to get them, and they were being trailed and tracked at all moments of the day, so much so that they had to hide money across the country and

brown paper bags. It only to me adds to the level of depravity and true lunacy that was going on inside this home that, by all accounts, George Wagner the fourth was very much a part of Let's stop here for another break. Despite being close to his father as a young boy, the pair grew apart when George was a teenager and after his father, Billy, began driving long haul truck roots after the dog kennels burned the last one. Um, my father started driving the truck. And did you notice

that it changes in your father after he started driving. Yes, my father had a habit of wanting to be identical to whoever he takes to the father figure at the time. He has daddy issues. Okay, and so when he started driving truck, did you notice the change. Yes, the guy he was driving with U took multiple different things to stay awake, and my father couldn't keep up with him,

so he started doing the same thing. What do you mean he started doing the same He would take what the guy he was driving with was taking multiple handfuls of atfects and paint pills. And did you notice any changes in his pa? It made him very irritable, hard to be around. Did that cause any problems in your relationship? A lot? He said he had a tumultuous relationship with his father, Billy, and recalled three fist fights they got

into over the years. My brother ran me over with my own truck when he was tried to hook up a trailer and I was yelling at my brother, and for some reason, my father went off on me, and he said, your brother, Randy Lowell, was at a purpose or an accident. He was not paying attention. Were you injured?

Not really, just a little black and blue, right, And so what happened My father thought I was just yelling at my brother for their reason, and pushed you up against my truck and dared me to hitting and you were sixteen, Yes, so whatever. I was just fed up with it. So I hit him. I hauled off and hit him with your fist. Yes, what happened? Then he hit the ground and he got back up and we went into a fist fight. How long was that? Few

minutes till my mother broke it up? And so did that first fist fight affect your relationship with your day? We didn't speak for a few weeks after that, And so were there other instances or other times when you got into a fight with your dad? Yes? Three? Three more? I remember two more fist fights and one that was just like a massive verbal argument. He called me dumb, say I wouldn't listen, call me ignorant all the time. Now worry about in my late teens. So what happened there?

I hit him again? Yes? What? We got into another fist fight for four or five minutes until it en didn't Did that affect your relationship? Another three or four weeks and they're talking to each other. In early twenty sixteen, there was another fight between George and Billy. This one nearly turned deadly. My father got upset and while I was leaving and broke the passenger's side window out the truck and shattered me a glass. How did he do? Yeah, he punched the window and then my r was kept

on my dash. He grabbed it and threw it across the yard into the dog pins an fifteen. Yes, and so he broke out those passenger side window and grabbed her gun that was on the dash. Yes, and so what happened after he threw your I got upset because he just threw my arm. But I just recently bought a few months prior, and me and my father went to another fistfight. What happened not to really go into a lot of detail, but my father lost. So did

that affect your relationship? Yes, we went over two months without speaking. I want to say more on that next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pipedon Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tis, Music by Jared Aston. The piked Inmasacer

is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts, from I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.