Finale: What’s Next?

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Maltain Glovell. Here this year on Revisionist History, we're tackling more ambitious stories than ever, from how to fix education to what Americans get completely wrong about guns. We're debating with teenagers handing out awards and hunting for the perfect medical raccoon. This is, after all, a podcast about you overlooked and misunderstood. Find revisionist history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Hello, this is Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer and host of The Laverne Cox Shack. Do you like your tea with lemon or honey? History making Broadway performer Alex Newell. When I sing the Holy Girl shows Up, that's my ministry and I know that well about me. That's the tea honey. Whoever it is, you can bet we get into it, my guest and I we go there every single time. I can't help it. Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast

or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Pike to Massacre Return to Pike County Season two finale, What's Next? I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. For the finale of season two, we wanted to devote some time to answering listener questions. This season. You've really helped lead us down some interesting and unexpected roads. We culled through a bunch of submissions and picked out a few questions that we felt needed

to be discussed. We also invited a group of our regular contributors to join reporters James Pilcher and Angette Levy, as well as forensics expert Joseph Morgan. Welcome to the finale. It's been quite a surprising season. It's been a shocking season, I think, yeah. I mean we started with a crazy turn of events, and now as we're learning more about the accused and the victims themselves, there's never a moment where I'm not surprised by this case and what happened.

And I think as we learned more and as these trials start to happen, I think that's only going to continue. That is the thing that I think I loved most about this season is some of the unexpected turns that we took. Really, this show sort of unfolded real time, obviously, starting with the initial plea with Jake Wagner, but then also we've done a couple of stories that were guided by listeners that we dug into to really look at

the area. We really spent a lot of time this week digging into questions that we've been following along the way over the course of both seasons. The three top things we got were, what are the details of what happened in Alaska? Where is Jake's wife Elizabeth? And who is the informant? And those questions drive each of us every day, and we do not know the answers, and we and journalists and experts have been digging, and the answers thus far have been impossible to come by, but

that will not remain the case forever. We had a conversation today with two people that hopefully we can report back on that is mind blowing. And you know, that's a little bit of a piece of the puzzle. Right as we produce this podcast, as we produce anything, there are certain conversations that happen on the record, There are

certain that happened off the record. Obviously, legally speaking, we have to have perfect releases in order for us to air certain pieces of information, you know, gossip, conjecture, things that are a matter of non fact, are not usable and because of the gag order at this exact second, it's maddening because we get to speak to certain people

and we're not able to share that information. Mike from Asheville, North Carolina wrote, why did you guys do all these break off episodes like the Michael Moran story and the

Curtis Francis story. Listeners wrote into us and gave us a heads up to be looking into these stories deeper, which was fascinating because truthfully, I don't know that we would have gone down that path had Listeners not reached out and alerted us to other stories that were happening in the area, which really does speak to the totality of crime in a really specific pocket of the country.

They definitely spoke to this theme of injustice in the community, and I mean, these were happening in the rodent's backyard, and so to not mention them would feel like we were not telling the complete story of this community. And like the road in case, the Curtis Francis case is so complicated and so tragic, and the benefit of having a season two is really being able to explore some of these stories more. In the same way we were able to expand on the Rodents story at the Gilly story.

We were able to do that with Curtis Francis, which is an honor to be able to do that. And so my question to you, James, so you report extensively on Michael Moran, why was that story important to you? And how, if it all, does it relate back to the road in case? As I said in the episode, and I still feel this that I feel I owe these women the truth that you know, there's was a part of me looking at it from my male, white

privileged perspective that this stuff didn't really happen. You know, I had no idea, so I almost didn't believe it at first, and so when I found out it was true, it became like almost a mission of mine to say, you know what, more people need to know about this kind of thing. So that's for the Moran story specifically, and sex trafficking. I've done subsequent stories about sex trafficking

in the numbers, state by state. So yeah, that's been a major focus of mine since I started reporting this story. As a legal disclaimer, we should note that Michael Moran has been arrested on charges including human trafficking and promoting prostitution. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges and denied any ties to sex trafficking. He's currently awaiting trial. How it relates back, you know, I wouldn't say that. You know, there's not a direct correlation between the Wagner's and Michael

Moran or the Rodents and Michael Moran. I think it just gets to this aspect of rural America that most people don't see, and that law enforcement in that part of the country and these parts of the country just isn't equipped to handle these multifaceted, in depth, complicated investigations. And you guys covered it when you covered the Hopper

Road episode. I completely admire what Jodie Barr did with the Hopper Roads story and how even if they don't get a conviction, at least people have an understanding of what might have happened. Out to Jodie Barr for what he did in that story, because he really did. He changed people's lives, you know exactly. You know. I saw something today. I won't name the publication, but there's a story out there saying that true crime is booming and whatever. But it is nothing more than a love letter to

law enforcement. And I want to write the author and said, have you listened to any of this? Have you listened to some of the stuff that you guys have done and some other of my colleagues have done. No, this is about unsolved. Why isn't this mystery solved? So I completely You know, there are people who think, oh, true crime is nothing more than making the cops look good. Well, no, I completely disagree with that. It's as much about holding the cops accountable as it is about telling the stories

of the victims. And by the way things go away in the night, if nobody's talking about something, it just gets swept under the rug. And likely when you take a closer look, which we get the benefit of doing in a podcast of again the totality of the abuse of power, or a real look at how things are being covered and are they being covered enough? And are these cases being highlighted enough? You know, oftentimes listen, investigators are investigating as much as they can and as fast

as they can. We get the benefit of being a little bit courtside and taking even a closer look, with the benefit of tons of time in The hope really always is to hopefully move the needle to either move a case forward and or to make sure it doesn't happen again. Zach from Wilmington, Delaware asked have there been efforts to reach back out to the Wagner family members whatever happened to Deray, the Wagner relative from season one.

We've spoken to Deray numerous times since the hearing. She was one of our first phone calls, and it is obviously very raw for her. I mean, she spent, as listeners know, a lot of time proclaiming her family's innocence, and Deray I think is heartbroken, and that is the only way to put it. And she declined to participate this season because I think she is not sure how to feel and how even if she was sure how to feel, how to even explain that to the masses.

Could you imagine anything more horrifying? Of course, we defend our families, and my understanding was I'm not sure if Deray had directly spoken to Jake, but I know that Jake was giving the impression to at least his grandmother that he was innocent, and so they were shocked that all of a sudden, he's in the courtroom saying the opposite of that, So you know what I spoke to Dry the day of the hearing. She was confused. She thought, did someone put him up to this? Is he not

in the right frame of mind. She wasn't sure what was going on because this was not the person that

she had known for his entire life. So my question, Anginette, is what has your experience been reaching out to the Wagner family members if you have, well, I've only really reached out to the lawyer's Billy Wagner's lawyer got back to me very politely and just you know, said that anytime there's a crime with multiple defendants, you know that one of them may or may not, So you don't see that there's always that chance and they're going to look at the case that type of thing. I didn't

really reach out to Frederica or anything like that. Anytime I've done that, it's not been fruitful. So I just didn't see any point I've reached after in the past, and she doesn't say anything. Frederica Wagner had been very vocal and speaking to the press, and as of today, she has not said one thing publicly about her family since Jake has played out. So I'm curious what's going on with her personally and also what the implications will be in the upcoming trials. Same with Rita Joe Nukam,

Angela's mother. I'm personally fascinated by the grandmothers. Frederica seems to be a complicated person. I mean, Frederica, as we know, is a staple in the community in terms of her presence with real estate and businesses. I just think about the ripple effects of the crime and how it's going to affect Pike County for years to come. Angie from Carl's Bad New Mexico wants to know how covering this story,

how has it affected you personally or professionally. I would say, I think it makes me think about trust, certainly about who you have in your life and the relationships you have, Because whether it's Jake and Hannah Roden's relationship or it's now Jake Wagner and the rest of his family, I think it is a little bit be careful who you trust. Yeah, this is one of those real cases of the boogeyman is not out there, it's in your circle. And not only in your circle. These were people that were really

close friends, the Wagners, and the Rodents. We know we're extremely tight, way more than was earlier reported. So I think for all of us, that's been the nauseating element here. That's been the part that you can't kind of shake, where you think you'd have a sixth sense about it, or you would meet somebody and you would know they're bad news, they're going to bring very bad things to our family. Yet that wasn't the case at all. They were at the same wedding, hugging and chummy and you know,

really shared beautiful times together. So at what point does that tip over? I think has been a real fascination of ours. And then I'd oppose the same thing to you, Joseph. Let me just say in two thy sixteen, I've been you know, kind of neck deep and covering crime for a while now on a lot of networks and whatnot, really big cases, and there there were a lot of

big cases in twenty sixteen. But I have to confess when the road In case hit, I was actually covering it with HLN and Nancy Grace and we've gone on to you know, to talk about it. Nancy and I have extensively on air and particularly at that time, and one of the things that struck me about it being a guy that comes from these rural routes like I do, you know, kind of country mouse comes a big city kind of thing. I've never seen or heard of anything like that in my entire life. I was just amazed.

And then when you go out to those locations, you get out and you look at this property and I don't know the word, I'd say emptiness, but there's a vacancy to it. And you know that you get out there and you see what may have been there and it's no longer there Isn't that really really something that kind of resonates with you, you know how how it leaves this this huge scar throughout that community. You know, this this vacancy. But yet it's it's haunted. It's haunted.

And you know, I'm not saying that in a sense of, you know, some kind of ghost tale or something. I'm saying it's a haunted place in this sense. This is a kind of event that years from now, kids are going to be sitting around campfires, you know, fifty years from now, and they're going to be saying, hey, you want to hear a ghost story. You want to hear about the worst thing that ever happened. And so right now it's a very urgent thing. We're waiting on trials

and all that sort of thing. But then it leaps over and into into the mythology of a place, and that's going to happen. That will happen, and this will be something that will be rememberable. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and

he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister.

I will always is hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great. People from LA will have a very superficial, nice conversation with you, and they won't lift a finger to help you to people represent vapidity, stops that like oh the best calls like oh shoot leave. As someone born and raised here, I can tell you there's much more to

LA than this. My name is James Kim, and I'm the creator of a new anthology fiction podcast, call You Feeling This. It's ten different stories about La and the real people who make up this city. What did you listen to my message? We're just trying to get bought. I think I was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with each other. I'm going to be a father. Ye Are you Feeling This? A fiction pod cast mixtape about love. Listen to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. She's a Hollywood Western. She's Jack Harrouac, but in a nap dress with braids. She is one of the most important American children's authors of the twentieth century. She's the basis for its television show, still watched around the world. Somebody somewhere is watching A Little as the Birth. She's been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, and a propagandist. I think the harm is too great because it's just one more thing that Native

children have to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the book series Little House on the Prairie. As a kid, I idolized Laura, and last summer I went on the road in search of the real Laura. We're literally on the prairie. What I found was a complicated person alongside the complicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNicol in This is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and

welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales the guide books don't. My name is Tom Horton and I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles. Bigger than Buckingham Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff.

So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes and the people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking, and hilarious tales. So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucous and down some dirty look though that, listen to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you

get your podcasts. Anginette. Has covering this case had an impact on any way you report now or has it affected you personally or professionally. I think that's hard to answer. I think you know, some stories change the way you report or make you look at things differently. You know. I kind of approached this like I approached any story. I just wanted to know the truth and figure out what happened and try to help you know, if we could bring some light to what happened. So, I mean,

it was very sad to me. I mean, I it was just it's just awful when you would watch the family and go individuals and stuff like that, and you would see what they we're going through. And there were sometimes where I felt like the family wasn't treated very well by some media. You know. I feel like I tried to always treat them, the family, the Roden family, with kindness, as I do everybody on a story with unless they're you know, like a politician and then you

chase them these straight or whatever. But I just feel like it maybe gave me a greater appreciation for the loss that people really suffer, just because of the children involved in this, of course, but just you know, just the senseless This was like truly you hear people say, well it was senseless, Well, and all killings are pretty much senseless, but this was really really on another level, and so I think the humanity just talking to Leonard Manly and seeing the pain that it brought him and

his family, and seeing Geneva Roden, and you could just see the pain on her face when she would come to court, just dutifully coming to court. You know, there's no elevator out there at the Pike County courthouse, she have to like walk up the stairs each time with her cane, and she has a bad foot, And in telling this story, just really so try to focus the best you can on the loss, or at least bring

that through in the storytelling. I feel like I just I learned something from every story I cover and it probably changes me, you know in some ways, you know, you learn and e Bold, I know a couple of you are parents, and it sounds so cliche, but it's so true, Like even you know, when I have my mind in this case particularly, it really makes you grateful for what you have, knowing what can be lost like that. Oh yeah, I would agree with you one hundred percent

on that. And I feel for those kids. Obviously I don't know any of these children, but just the thought of children growing up not knowing their parents now because of this that's going to happen. I try to keep my emotions separate, but it's hard. You know, sometimes you come home and you look at your own children and you just think, God, what would happen if my child was less because of that? And you try to really put yourself in that plenty, and it's just I can't

even imagine. I just hope this kid are going to grow up and be okay. You know, we get up in the morning every day and think about people who we've never met, and think about families who we never will outside of the interviews that we have the benefit

of doing. And I can speak for all of us to say, if you speak to a person, whether it's on a phone or on a zoom or eye to eye in the same room, and their entire family has been slaughtered, and they can sit before us and tell their tale and have the wherewithal and the composure to be able to push on in their world. Certainly we can tell their stories, and we also can push on in our world. And I think that's very inspiring in a way. We've been wildly inspired by this case in

ways I can quite describe. The Rodent family has become a piece of our DNA. Do we know for sure George's trial will be next and do we know what the order is yet? All we know is that George's trial is the only one who's been scheduled. They might schedule Mom and Dad earlier than that. They could still do that. They very well could still do that, But as of right now, the only one we know of is next spring, we're going to have a trial unless

there's a plea deal. These prosecutors have been dealing with this case for years, so I assume they've got some type of game plan, or they think they know who could go next, or who they want to potentially offer something too next. I mean, I'm sure they have a plan. I don't know that they have a plan. I'm just kind of surmising, you know, I'm sure they've thought about this over the years. I think it's so compelling to

better understand how one trial will influence the other. It is unusual to have four now trials of family members back to back, so a man in one trial of course impacts the other, and the bombs that come along with that, particularly Jake Wadner facing off for the first time, as now stipulated in his plea agreement, that he will testify against his own mother, his own brother, his own father, is mind blowing. There's no way this can play out

in any universe that is not shocking. If they are turning on each other, that is a piece of the equation that we really never thought would happen until Jake appeared at that hearing. How do you throw your son under the bus, And how does your son throw his own mother under the legal bus. That is a legal mess, and I'm so curious to see how it plays out. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting

a podcast ask called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He shouted into the point that she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay

for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ella's reputation not so great. People from out I will have a very superficial, nice conversation with you, and I won't lift a finger to help you.

To La, people represent vapidity, stops that like oh, the best, calls like ah Shoot. As someone born and raised here, I can tell you there's much more to La than this. My name is James Kim and I'm the creator of a new anthology fiction podcast called You Feeling This. It's ten different stories about La and the real people who make up this city. What did you listen to my message? Who were just trying to get bought? I think I was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with

each other. I'm going to be a father. Are You Feeling This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love. Listen to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales the guide books don't. My name is Tom Burton and I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from crumbling castles, massive

mansions and stately piles bigger than Buckingham Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes and the people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking,

and hilarious tales. So if you want to get historically horrid, Royally raucus and Downton dirty, look no further. Listen to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Colleen from Aspen, Colorado asked, what do you think is going to be the end result of the case when all is said and done? Are

there going to be any more surprises? I would predict at this point they're all found guilty, and I think there's probably no plea deal and we're going to see these trials happen one after the other, starting with George. I think it'll be starting with Angela Wagner and George will follow and Angela's trial will set the stage for the remaining two. If Jake is lying, Is that a possibility to anybody that Jake is lying? I don't know.

I mean, if what they said is true over that ten to eighteen hour confession, if that's indeed you know the story, and he said it was all true, and he led them the murder weapons and the vehicle used, that's some pretty compelling evidence. So you know, there may be another domino or two to fall, and maybe there will be somebody that fix it out and says, now I'm going to roll the dice, can go to trial. I said it before they're either, you know, with Jake's deal,

that's parent leaves off the table. So you either plead guilty and get life in prison, or you roll the dice and get convicted and get life in prison, or you roll the dice and get a hung jury. So but kind of how I look at it, James, will there be any more surprises? Well, I think it depends on your definition of surprise. Jake pleading guilty a few months ago that was a surprise. At this point with that on the table, I don't think anything would be surprising.

I don't necessarily think someone deciding to stick it out to say yeah, I'm going to go to trial would be surprising, or pleading out would be surprising. I think it's going to depend on how hard and which we link the prosecutors decide to push on where they see the weak links, if they see a week link, I mean, they're all being kept in separate prisons, and they're all being kept with separate counsel. Now those counsel can talk to each other, but the Wagoners can't. So I don't

know at this point. Nothing surprised would surprised me in this case anymore apart from they went to trial and got a not guilty verdict, that would be a shocker. A really really sincere thanks for your time, information, passion, all of it really on behalf of Katie Studios. Just thank you to the listeners. You know, we hit number one in all categories because people kept tuning in and as we talked about, led us in the right direction in terms of other things to be discussing and unpacking.

So thank you. As we bring season two to a close, one piece of the puzzle has been solved. Jake Wagner changed his leaded guilty and said he was responsible for five of the eight Rodent family member deaths. What plead you wished to hit her? In JELF seven Your Heart. Jake Wagner faces life behind bars and has disclosed details of the plot to kill the Rodent family to authorities. He told us letters to discover some evidence that had yet to be recovered, specifically the weapons that were used

in these offenses. He's also implicated his family and the Gruesome murders. Billy Wagner, Angela Wagner, and George Wagner the Fourth all still face charges, including aggravated murder. Jake Wagner has actually agreed to testify against his mother, his father, and his older brother, while Angela, Billy, and George Wagner continue to maintain their innocence. Questions remain. Angela Wagner was a suspected master mind if the conspiracy to kill eight

members of the Rodent and Gillie family. Prosecutors say the Wagners lived an insular life focused on control of children and the young women who entered their lives. But with judgment day for Accu's brother, George Wagner the Fourth just around the corner, George Wagner's trial date has been said for April fourth, twenty two. What will happen in the meantime is anyone's guests. Will there be another plea deal? It'll be interesting to see where this case goes from here.

Now they have someone who is cooperating, they have someone who can give them specific evidence. What exactly is Jake going to say in the stand. It's going to be interesting to watch what happens with a few Could grandmother Rita Nucam make an appearance on the witness stand. Nucom is a notary, and prosecutors say she forged guardianship documents

three weeks before the Rodents were murdered. The fine details of this plea agreement are under sealed with the court, so it's still a question about whether or not Newcome will be required to testify at the trials, or will grandmother freder Rico Wagner end up back in court. The seventy seven year old Wagner faced two felony charges, obstructing justice and perjury. I've never lied about anything. I was innocent. They had no evidence against me. She can be charged

again in this case later. Perhaps most importantly, will the victims, families finally see closure in the case. Our family will never stop trying to bring whoever did this to justice. One thing is for sure, There's much more on the horizon in this case just keeps on coming. I still wonder if there was much more to this that we don't know, and what would drive someone to do what happened here. There's still to me a whole lot of

un answer questions here. More on that next season, but check in next week when we'll be bringing you a special bonus episode before the Break. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional

producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker and Chris Graves. The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be

eligible bachelors. One of them was Bob Baron bat On paper. He was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. Shouted to the point she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, maltoin Globo. Here. This year on Revisionist History, we're tackling more ambitious stories than ever, from how to fix education

to what Americans get completely wrong about guns. We're debating with teenagers, handing out awards and hunting for the perfect medical raccoon. This is, after all, a podcast about you overlooked and missunderstood. Find Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. This is Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer and host of The Laverne Cox Shack. Do you like your tea with

women or Honey? History? Making Broadway performer Alex Newell when asking the Holy Girl shows up, that's my ministry and I know that all about me. That's the g honey, whoever it is, you can bet we get into it. My guest tonight, we go there every single time. I can't help it. Listen to the Verne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I want to learn how to be a master of business without going back to school. This summer, the Planet

Money podcast is offering its very own MBA. Enjoy classic Planet Money stories about the fundamentals of business, and here a fancy pants business school professor break down the concepts. Whether you want to start your own side hustle or just survive in the job you have a little business know how will make you richer at least a knowledge. Every Wednesday till Labor Day, listen to Planet Money from NPR on the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts.