Connecting the Dots

I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get

your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,

I'm free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last twenty years building and working at some of the largest companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check out the ARTHI and Trrom show. That is a R D HI and s R I R A M show. Listen to the Art the Industry M Show on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Oh, whenever you get to your podcasts. No Wagner family DNA was found on a crime scene. Does it matter to

this case? I would say that they absolutely need some sort of physical evidence. It clearly isn't happening with the DNA. Does the shoe prints and it's the ballistics that's without Guy juror's eyes were glued to the latest witness to testify in George Wagner the Fourth's murder trial. This is the Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County season four, episode nine, Connecting the dots. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios, with Stephanie Ladecker and Jeff Shane.

It's important to note that George Wagner has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff speaking about some of the revelations from the autopsy results. They mentioned doctor Karen Luhman, who you may remember is the forensic pathologist who performed ali at autopsies and testified at the child How were three people at Dana Roden's home shot

in their sleep? I just am trying to wrap my head around how the perpetrators were able to walk around home shooting one person at a time without waking anyone else up. And also, one thing that I thought was interesting about Lumen's testimony was how she determined that some of the shots fired that night were what she called at intermediate range, which is essentially anywhere between three inches

and three feet from someone, and then others weren't. She said, that's based on something called stippling, or actual evidence of damage to the victim, based on how close the muzzle of the gun was to the victim itself. Some victims had that, and we're seemingly shot at close range, but some didn't. So the choreographing of all of that seems so complicated. Who was where when? This morning? Lead Prosecutor

Angie Kaneppa begins by addressing exactly this question. Back on the stand, is doctor Karen Lehman speaking about Hannah Hazel Gilly's injuries? Can you tell us we are was gunshot wound number one located on the diagram? Number one is on the far left. It looks like it's on the right forehead. It's a little more on the side of the forehead. Doctor, Can you tell us what did you

determine the distance to be of that gunshot wound? That is intermediate And again that intermediate is somewhere not contact or lose contact, but somewhere less than three feet. Yeah, okay, shots two, three, and four were indeterminate, while shot five was again close range or what she calls intermediate. When you conducted your examination of Hannah Rode in how many gunshot wounds did you observe her to have? Two? And can you tell us if you determined a distance? Yes?

And what was that it was indeterminate? Kneppa has a chart where she keeps track of the myriad of gunshots, some at a distance, some close, all while the victims were asleep. Then she brings up the idea of how this might be affected by the use of a silencer. And doctor loman I believe you testified to this before. But do you know or do you have an opinion if there was a silencer used on a weapon, would

that possibly impact your distance determinations? It possibly could, Yes, Okay, the defense has no choice but to address the introduction of a possible use of a silencer as well. On the last one of the last points, the prosecute made the silence, how would that impact your determination of distance? A silencer in general would fit around or in the area of the muzzle, and it could capture some of the soot or stipling that normally would have landed on

clothes or the body, it may capture that. So, if I understand what you're saying, the distance could actually be closer than what you have observed. Yes, this is a turning point in the trial. It's the first of many loose threads that the prosecution finally begins to weave together for a jury, a public, and a media weary after weeks of detail specific testimony. So far, the prosecution has worked in a meticulous linear fashion, laying out they narrative

that they want the jury to consider. Here's long crime reporter a Jeanette Levy. I've covered a lot of trials in my career, a lot of criminal cases, but I've never seen one presented in this fashion in court, where it's all chronological or goes in chronological order of the investigation. You know, it's a two and a half year investigation between the time of the homicides and the arrest. Sometimes

it just feels like we're bouncing around a lot. You know, it'll be up to the jury to determent whether or not that was a good strategy. I've often wondered, are they confused by this? Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. When it comes to physical evidence, it's the shoe prints, and it's the ballistics that's without God. And this is exactly how the prosecution begins to connect the dots and tighten the news on

George and the Wagner family. Today, prosecutors present some of the most crucial evidence yet in the trial of George Wagner the Fourth in the Pike County massacre. Local twelve James Pilcher reports on key footprints that were found at the scene. Susan Elliott, a shoeprint specialist for the Ohia Bureau of Criminal Investigation at the time of the murders, declined to be on camera with her testimony, but she matched footprints found at the first crime scene with an

actual shoe style in size. Juror's eyes were glued to the latest witness to testify in George Wagner the Fourth's murder trial as she opened large pizza boxes inside pieces of flooring cut from one of the Pike County crime seats, the trailer on Union Hill Road where Chris Rodin Senior and Gary Rodin were murdered. She said these impressions that have since been enhanced were not in the Crime Labs shoe database. You may recall from last season the testimony

of shoeprint expert William Bodsiac during pre trial motions. Bodsiac, who worked on the oj Simpson case, stated that investigators finally found the model shoe that made the prince at Walmart. It was Susan Elliott who made the actual discovery. James Pilcher, She's the one who found at all. She was the one that newd'll be looking out for the Walmart shoes because she remembered, you know, our shoeprin expert found these shoes of Walmarts, so we need to be looking for

anything for Walmar. Here is testimony for Brian Scheiterer had BCI investigator who provided testimony the same day about how they use that information. As a result of learning that you were looking for a size eleven shoe that you believed belonged to whoever committed these murders, or at least one of the individuals, what did you guys do in

response to that information? It was decided that we would contact the Walmarts within a fifty mile radius of Pike County and asked for all their records for transactions and holding that shoe dated back to January first of twenty sixteen. In in addition to getting the records of any transactions, did you also get a request and receive video surveillance that corresponded with those Yes. As we know from previous episodes, this is how the recorded video of Angela buying the

same model she is was found. Subsequently, they then seized a receipt from the purchase. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike Allen and your expertise as a lawyer. How big is this piece of evidence? It's really big because you've got the receipt for purchasing them, they match up in size, and then of course she got the bloody footprint in one of the trailers. So it's very strong evidence. And I think that's something that the jury is going to

be thinking about. And do you think, you know without DNA evidence, this shoeprint is maybe the closest thing we have. How much weight can the prosecution put on it? Well, I think they can put a lot of weight on it. I mean, the odds of it being some kind of coincidence are in the millions, So I think they'll put a lot of weight on it's it's real strong evidence for the state. What's the defense's counter argument to this?

How do they defend the shoeprint? I guess you would have to argue that it's a pretty popular brand of shoe at Walmart. You'd have to do your homework and it. I don't know any other way to do that, because, like I said, it's such strong evidence, you'd have to argue that, well, you know, it is what it is. But they were in a real tough position on that one. I don't know how they're going to do it. You're just gonna have to argue coincidence, and I don't think

the jury's going to buy that. Here's forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, for me, shoe prints till everything. The shoe prints are indicative of purpose. They're indicative of thought and care being taken when it comes to planning. Because from where did the shoe prints originate? Well, they originated from a pear shoes that were purchased for the sole purpose of, you know, following through with this horrible plan.

We've already got Angela Wagner actually stating that she purchased the shoes and for them to have the utility to go out for them to commit these crops. Next, Angel Wilson turns to ballistics mister White, where do you work? I work at the Bureau of Criminal Investigation also known

as BCA in London, Ohio. We have been able to gather from preliminary motions and prosecution filings that there is a connection, they assert between shell casings found at at least one of the crime scenes and weapons link back to the Wagner family. So we do expect that this ballistics expert will prove a very important to this case. White is a striking presence on the stand. He wears a broad shouldered black three piece suit and sports a wide flat beard that ends the midway down his chest.

When Matt White comes to work in London, Ohio, VCI, what does he do every day? Our primary duties involved examination of firearms to determine their operability, as well as looking at fired ammunition components, be it a fire cartridge case or a fire bullet. I can perform microscopic examinations to determine if they've been fired in or from a particular farm, and if not, I can generate a potential list of firms that could have been fired from I want to take you back to April two sixteen, April

twenty sixteen. At some point, were you asked through a dam of candidates that have been collected as part of an investigation of an eight person homicide in Pike count Yes, I was. And can you tell the jury how were you initially brought into this case or asked to assist? My supervisors notified us that there was a larger case that was coming into laboratory, and I just happened to be the person selected to work the case at the time.

White goes on to testify that he identified two types of bullets at Chris Senior's home, thirty caliber bullets from a high profiled rifle and forty caliber bullets from an unknown firearm. Crime scene too, the home of Frankie Rowden and Hannah Hazel Gilly was a different story. Were several of the items that you examined from this scene shell casings had been recovered by the crime scene unit? Yes they were. Yes, this is one fired watching long rifle

cartridge case. The fact that that cartridge has the name long rifle, does that mean that it has to be or can only be fired out of a rifle. Now certainly not twenty long rifle cartridge is generic. It can be fired in a pistol, revolver, a rifle, any fire that's designed to actually fire that specific cartridge. Were you also asked to again, I didn't. It came from seeing three? Yes, I was. Was one of the items that you were asked to look at with respect the scene three as

shell casing. That was our cartridge casing that was recovered from under a crib in this residence. Yes, that's correct. This is a fire twenty two long rifle cartridge case Remickton brand with a rectangular wedge shaped fine pin impressure. That item had the same general class characteristics as the shell casings that you just testified too from scene two. Yes, that's correct, and again, are those consistent with the other projectiles recovered? An autopsy of the other victims have seen

three and the other victims have seen two. Yes, they are Stephanie and Jeff. So we have two types of bullets found at the scene. We have thirty caliber high powered rifle bullets and forty caliber bullets found in Chris Senior's home. And we know from Fortner's testimony last week that the thirty calibers were sprayed from outside the trailer and the forties were founds have gone through the floor and into the dirt below the home, so they were

shot inside. Now here's where it gets confusing, because at Frankie and Dana Roden's homes they found twenty two caliber bullets. Does that mean that whoever did this, whether it's one person or many people, did they do that by switching out guns mid murder scene? Or does that mean they almost divided and conquered and that different family members were using different guns and that they were committing these murders simultaneously. They moved on to crime scene for Kenneth Rowden's house,

if you recall there was only one shot fired. Stay divot D two eighty two. You've already opened her up. Do you recognize the marketings on that package? Yes, laboratory number, item number, and my initials, and we're able to examine that item and reach any conclusion with respect to brand and caliber associated with that. Yes, I was able to conclude this as a fired forty Smith and Wesson cartridge case.

Hornedy brand is were you asked to make some comparisons in this case to determine whether or not certain pieces of evidence had been fired by the same weapon at each scene. Yes, I was. Were you able to reach a conclusion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty as to whether or not the forty caliber shell casing a scene one was fired from the same firearm that fired

the forty caliber shell casing the scene forty. Yes, Based on my microscopic comparison examining the two fired forty Smith and Weston Cartridge cases, I was able to conclude the two forty Smith and Weston Cartridge cases had been fired in the same firearm. Media outlets jumped on the breaking news. Today, prosecutors turned to the bullets used in all eight murders. The casings included a forty caliber shell found on Chris Senior's kitchen floor. He also showed the bullets retrieve from

the victim's bodies. His testimony came after another BCI agent walked through the crime scene where police found Chris Senior's brother, Kenneth Rowden, shot in his bed. Agents also found a forty caliber shell in his bed. We're going to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.

He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I

would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.

You may never have to face that decision when you find yourself at that line. Bouncin aren't ricin and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal men, things are going to happen to speak out disgrace to our gun. Pevil Pay should be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line

of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what they're

doing is evil. They will take things away and I can only hope that Dobbs is that, like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.

The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. Hi. This is Paris Hilton. Some of the best times of my life have been spent inside of nightclubs, singing, dancing

and being free to truly be myself. And now I'm the executive producer of a new show, the History of the World's Greatest Nightclubs. I wanted a show that represented freedom, joy and hope, and there is no one better to host than someone who has inspired me for so many years with her musical talent. I'm alternate and I've been in the music industry for three decades. I'm a singer, songwriter and musician, and now I'm inviting you to join

me on this global nightclub journey. We'll dive into the origins of genres that broke the industry and uncover the stories of legendary DJs, all through the eyes of the people who partied at the height of club culture. Listen to the history of the world's greatest nightclubs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The next day, the prosecution picks up once again with testimony from Matthew White. Andrew Wilson is intent on further

closing the loop on the physical ballistic evidence. In addition to that information that you passed onto your investigators, do you do further work or further analysis to try to determine what kind of twenty two or what kind of forty was involved in these homicides? Yes. Oftentimes, if I'm encountered evidence and there's no firearms submitted, I can look at certain features of the fire cartridge cases or the fired bullets to give a possible list of firearms that

could have fired them. To aid investigators and what they should be looking for. In the case of the twenty two, he pinpoints the probable gun used. I was able to examine other examples of test fires taken with Walter cold nineteen eleven twenty two pistols. I was able to physically examine a couple different of the specific guns. I was able to disassemble them, look at them, further, examine the

firing pin itself, take additional test fires for comparison. In addition to that, I corresponded with a design engineer at Walter in Germany about the shape the orientation of the firing pin impression. He was able to look at some stock examples at the factory of farms that they were producing, and he agreed and concurred that the shape of the firing pin impression and the orientation of it was consistent with the farms that they produced the Walter nineteen eleven

twenty two pistols. In the case of the forty caliber, he pulls up an enlargement of the bullet casing, pointing out marks around the base of it. You can see the fine pain impression itself. It's elliptical, it is not circular in shape. Those two features are very common with glock firearms. So based on those observations, again, did you begin to feel that a block firearm or a forty Cali block was responsible for shooting the showcasings recover from

seeing a one in zeen four. Yes, the lock is by far the most common firearm encountered that has those two characteristics. Next, the prosecution asks a key question of light. But at that time, when you were doing your initial work in this case, did you have a firearm that had been inflected as evidence to compare of from the scene or from a suspect. No, I did not to understand the recovery of the Wagner's firearms. Brian Scheiderer is asked to step back and give the jury a big

picture on how they began their investigation. Remember, at the time, BCI did not yet know the Wagners were involved. Back to that very first day, you responded to the Sheriff's office, you interviewed some people. Then what happened? Then what did you do? Things were still very confusing at that time. There's a lot of information coming in as you can expect, the media was on scene at the time, so this

had went statewide. As well as national So eventually we went back to the piked in the police department and we tried to organize things like we knew this was going to be in. We're going to be in for the long haul on this. We're trying to say, here's what we had at the crime scenes, here's what the families told us, and here's tips that are coming in. That's all happening extremely fast, like it's over well, I mean,

it overloads you, it's coming in so fast. We also established a tip system because we had so many tips coming in. Ultimately, I believe we had eleven hundred and forty three tips that came in through the end of the investigation to the arrest, and all eleven hundred and forty three of those tips were investigated and cleared. And so how was that tip system established. They would mark the tip, it would get assigned to an agent, and the agent would go out investigate the tip and respond

back and report his or her findings. At some point, they received a tip about the Wagner's collection of firearms. Here's Jeff speaking with my Gallen. Law enforcement have to verify who sent the tip or does it not matter if it checks out you mean, when the tip comes in, try to figure out who it is. Yeah, Like, if they got a tip that, oh, you should search this property because there might be weapons there. If that tip

checks out, does it matter who called it in? In theory, wouldn't they want to track that person down because that's a good witness or they don't care. They probably would have to have more than that. You know, they get a tip like that, they'd have to develop it somewhat, you know, just some Tom Dick or Harry calling and saying, Hey, you know, I think there's a bunch of evidence and weapons down there at Joe Jones's house. The cops will have to have more than that. You just use the

term develop the tip. I've never heard that. What does that mean? You know, perhaps try to find out whatever this witness said, Maybe go to the place, check it out, maybe talked to other people. I just think that would be very weak to go to a judge and ask for a search warrant just based on a completely anonymous tip that they would have to bolster that somehow it was enough to get warrants to search the Wagner's property.

We also talked about you've seeking court orders for various phone records and Facebook records and any other records are correct, and can you tell us kind of at what point did that start to happen and what kinds of information were you receiving that led you to turn your attention to them. It takes a long time to examine those things, you know, many of those files are extremely large, several

thousand pages. It is these electronic records that lead BCI to Jake Wagner via social media posts about custody of his and Hannime Rodin's young child. When we first made contact with Jake Wagner, he had indicated that everything was okay, that he had a good relationship with Hannah, and there was no issues involving their child that they shared together. So that was a little suspicious moranted a little further investigation, obviously, But we were also conducting an interviews of friends and

family who were reporting a similar situation. So you kind of have conflicting stories, right. You have one side that's saying everything's okay, and then you have records and family members and friends that are saying that it's not true. So that kind of, you know, you need to investigate that. That's important that's a lead, that's that's something that needs to be ran down, and so that's what we started to do. Did you also look at Jake's phone and

did you find anything of interest on that phone? Yes? And can you tell us? And again, these were expedited reviews of these records. It wasn't like we had days to go through these. We literally downloaded these phones and started going through quickly. But one of the most interesting things that we found on Jake's phone at that time was under the note section, and it was a list of guns owned by the Wagoners or purported to be.

So basically there's a list with each Wagner's name and then a list of guns underneath each of those names. At this point, the defense objects and everyone approaches Judge Daring upon request, they consult briefly and during rules testimony can continue, your honor, Agent Scheider. I'm going to show you what is going to be marked as students exam at H two. Okay, and can you tell us first

of all, Agent Scheider, what are we looking at? This was again, this is a an extraction report or a snippet of an extraction report related to Jake's iPhone that we took of May of seventeen, and this was found in the notes section of the phone, and it is a list of firearms and associated Wagner names. Go through those and tell us which guns are listed belonging and belonging to and what date was that list created pursuing to the reports I'm having Trump to see you that

February eleventh, twenty fifteen. Okay, thank you, and go ahead

and tell us what guns are listed there? Starting at the top, the list starts with George's Indicadian possession and it says Glock seventeen nine millimeter, Baretta ninety six forty caliber, Taurus Revolver three fifty seven, Remington five fourteen twenty two, ruger M seventy seven two seventy, ruger M seventy seven twenty two, Hornet Remington Woodmaster thirty six, ruger M seventy seven twenty two, CZ twenty two and SKS seven point six two by thirty nine. And who else is listed

on that list? Moms, Dad's and Jake's. Okay, that is at the extent of the list. It was extracted from the phone belonging to Jake Wagner. Yes, but you seized for tuning to the search for it. Yes, let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He

was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. He really wasn't, he shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with your fis song him right now. I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound

you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcast. What the hell is going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing a line they won't cross. I was stunned and I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never have to face that decision when you

find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin ars ricin, and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and the only person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to this week out disgrace through our gun. Peovil Pay should be prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is

the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have been screaming for years. We've got to

watch the Supreme Court what they're doing. Is wrong. What they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, you and I both know what it took to just get through the day in New York City and get home in one piece. And so the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting

around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share everybody. We know there are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we

would love for you to check out. It is called The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scobel. We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, but now most of all, we are your pen pals. Every single episode we get two letters that we read from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be about anything going on in their life. And sometimes we're

also joined by guests like Will Ferrell. I'm gonna bring you up in front of the group and I'm gonna punch you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose burn Is West Hollywood, keep it clean, Joppato, is that considered? Colona Brian, I'm just showing you that my mind is quick, if not that funny. And Mandy Moore,

we're all crossing the line together. Listen to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and sirely your new pen Pals Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobell. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike Gallen. He pretty much figured out what the firearms were through that, obviously the help of the corner. The what the rounds showed,

what kind of weapon they were fired from. And you know, they got a real break on Jake's phone when they got the search warrant for that and found on the notes portion just about every gun that the family had and it matched up again. That was just good old fashioned police work, not a lot of technology in that. What do you make of Jake Wagner writing all this stuff down? Stupid? It was just stupid. Why would you

do that? You know? In many ways, I think he covered his tracks, or at least tried to cover his tracks pretty well, but it's just stupid. I guess he just wanted to keep track of what everybody had, and my goodness, you talk about an arsenal. They had just about any kind of weapon you can think of. Learning a lot of guns, though, does not necessarily make you guilty of a murder. It definitely does not make you

guilty of murder. But it's a piece of the puzzle, especially when two of the weapons that he had on that list were the type of weapons that were used to commit these murders. When you can tie a weapon or weapons, you know, to a homicide, that's big. I mean, it's good evidence. The jury wants to hear that, so it's strong evidence. More on that next time. We're going to take a short break. The Pipes and Massacre returns with all new episodes starting Wednesday, January fourth, with Angela

and Jake Wagner taking the stand. There's much more to uncover, and the biggest bombshells are yet to come. Don't defense ready? Yes, you wish to call a witness, that is fine, then we called George Wagger The four. For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by

Jeff Tua. Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One

of them was the spot Barrenmout. On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a welcome. He shouted to the point she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my Sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Free and I'm Rthy. We have spent the last twenty years building and working at some of the largest companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people, Rob mclenny.

When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check out the Art and Tried ARM Show. That is a R D HI and s R I R A M Show. Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast I'm will daily. For years have been on the road, playing shows and seeing America through live music.

This summer, I'll hit the stage of season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities, twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues and culture of a new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues you want to get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the

story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.