Cinnamon and Hay

Law Center with Code Podcast fifty. That's Credomobile dot Com. Code Podcast fifty. Smart journalism, fascinating topics. Words that describe CNN's podcast The Assignment with Audi Cornish. I'm Audi Cornish, host of The Assignment, a new weekly podcast from CNN. We're going to talk about things you might not want to bring up at the dinner table, from the economy of sex work to the politics school boards, conversations with everyday people who don't make the headlines they live them.

Listen to The Assignment with Audi Cornish on the iHeartRadio app. He'll forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow, thanks Grandpa. But He'll never forget how you invested in his future with the UNSTAP. Wow, Thanks Grandpa. The UNSTAP makes it easy for grandparents and family friends to give funds to a child's investment account for a limited time. Download the unst stapp and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a fifty

dollar bonus when you find your account. That's code I heart fifty when you sign up at un est dot coo for fifty dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at unest dot coo. How long was Neil Armstrong actually on the Moon? When did Europe start speaking English? Did Marco Polo really go to China? Curiosity Stream is the streaming service for all things history, plus science, wildlife and more. What's the real story behind the Mona Lisa? We've got that?

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a sweetheart and everything. Jake Wagner, he originally pleaded not guilty to the murder of eight Rodent family members, saying him say that he was guilty, I am guil It just gives you a complete chills. Admitted to personally killing five of the eight into trying to burn and get rid of Avid. And he'll now avoid the death penalty and spend the rest of his life in prison. If I've done something to making that outrageously mad, he could

have killed me too. Wagners showed a little to no emotion in cour today, just answering yes or no to the judge. But his life was controlled all the time. Special Prosecutor said the Wagners were a cult like family. I think it was still Angelo behind the scene, control and everything, like a little puppet master. This is the Pikedon Massacre. Returned to Pike County season two, Episode two, Cinnamon and hay M Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at

Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. On April twenty second, twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to twenty three counts, including eight aggravated murder charges, in the Rodin murder case. The motive behind the killings back in twenty sixteen, according to prosecutors, was a custody dispute between

Jake and victim hannahme Rodin over their young daughter. As it stands, the other three Wagners accused in the murders, Jake's father Billy, mother Angela, and brother George, have all pled not guilty. The day that Jake appeared in court for his plea deal, we caught up with Christina Howard. Her sister Tabby had a relationship with the accused eldest son, George Wagner. The two were married and had a son together, but eventually divorced. When you found out for a fact

that Jake was guilty, what was your reaction? My reaction was like wow, in a way, kind of speechless, because me and Hamm were friends when we were younger. You never really think about somebody who is or once was a friend, being able to take so many lives like that. Last season, Christina told us a little bit about a custody dispute that ensued between Tabby and George Wagner. After the couple split up. It piqued our interest when we heard about it, since it foreshadowed what was to come

for hannahme Roden. Christina was a little hesitant to divulge too much last time we spoke, but in light of Jake's please, she chose to delve into Tabby's story a little more, and what we found is far darker and much more disturbing than we could have ever imagined. What follows is Christina's recollection of the events. Christina's relationship with the Wagner family goes back to her childhood. Her mother began working for grandmother of the acute used Frederica Wagner,

whom Christina affectionately refers to as Freddie. When she was a kid, she was a grandmother too in a way. I would go to work with my mother and I would hang around Freddie a lot, and she treated my family pretty kindly. On holidays, she would always get me and my sister's presents, and I have Christmas dinners and Easter dinners, and it was like, you know, us being part of her family, and it was pretty nice. Eventually, Christina and her sister Tabby met Frederica's grandsons, George and

Jake Wagner. Christina told Jeff that George and Tabby hit it off and soon became a couple. They got together when they were young teens. I think my sister was like thirteen fourteen, you know, and they ended up liking each other. Did you think that George was bad news? He was a little bit of a travelmaker. Christina would often tag along when Tabby went to visit George at the Wagner's home. They had like this pretty little like house up on the hill, and they had like their

own little pond up there. It was pretty isolated. They had a privacy gate at the bottom that in order to get in, somebody up at the top of the house would have to come down and unlock it. Me, George, Jake, and Tabby we would like go outside and you know, do young dumb teenager kid type stuff and play tag, jump on the trampoline and the treehouse and all that. It was really fun and we could be as rowdy as a noisy as we wanted because they didn't have

no neighbors whatsoever. While George and Tabby were hanging out, Christina struck up a friendship with Jake Wagner. Jake was actually a really nice kid. Me and him were kind of friends. It was pretty cool. He was really nice, kind of shy, who played video games, all that good stuff. As a kid. Jake struck Christina as kind and almost

unusually empathetic. I remember in Jake's bedroom, you know, he had his own little peev and video game system and all that stuff, and he had this one stuff duck, and it was like hanging on the wall or something, and it kind of gave me the creeps whenever I'm a little kid. And he was sweet enough to take it off his wall and hide it in his closet

or something, because the game of the creeps. The more time Christina spent at the home, the more familiar she became with the boy's mother, accused murderer, Angela Wagner, she sometimes referred to as Angie. Christina told Stephanie that on the surface, everything about Angela Wagner seemed to personify the typical all American mom. Out front was like this nice little walk away with flowers and you know, the white

picket fence except in the country cotton deal. And then like you go and find the house or the kitchen, and then right beside the kitchen of the living room and it's pretty big. They got like this huge section all and a nice big TV. And the house smelled like it kind of smelled like cinnamon mixed with hay. I don't know if she could really imagine that, but like, take some may got around everywhere and sprinkle some cinnamon in it, and that's what it smelled. Watch Angela would

make us some snacks or some lunch or whatever. I think even like maybe twice she made us dinner. It was pretty good. She sounds like a homemaker, which is again what makes it so shocking to imagine that she had the ability to do something so horrific. Yeah, but the more time Christina spent at the Wagner home, the relationship between the Wagner boys and their mother came into focus. They were always around their mom, no matter what their

mom said, went always. If they wanted to play outside longer, if Angie said no, it was no. I yes, they wanted to play their video games longer. If Andy said no, it was no. Even if like they slightly disobeyed her, she put her foot down, meaning like you better listen to me, or I'm gonna book your butt, and they're just like, all right, Mama, it didn't matter what Angie said. That's what went. As the kids got older, Angela Wagner seems to take more control over her boys lives, especially Jake.

We had a job somewhere and his mom like actually made him quit the job because she said that the job wasn't good enough for him, meaning Angela Wagner. Jake Wagner's mom said, this job's over, it's not good enough for you. Yeah. It's like, you know, your mom controls your whole entire life. And it wasn't long before Angela

turned her controlling ways towards Christina's family. Angie made George break up with Tabby because Angie didn't like my sister because you know, George and Jake were Mama's boys and ain't nothing in the world gonna be able to steal her boys from her. She was just so controlling. Soon, Angela Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all American facade. In some photos that I've seen of Angela, she looks smiley and she's pretty and just looks like

an all American mom. But then in other pictures like her mugshot, for example, she's sort of grimacing and has a scary vibe. What was she like in prison? In person, she was the type you know, to talk about every day stuff like how you do, and how's your family and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever she would talk to you, it felt like an act because she was putting on like you know, she was looking down on the kind of thing is At least

that's what I always picked up. She seemed like she was put on a math makes people thank so she's all right or whatever. But I never really did like her. She just spooks me. After the Wagner family was arrested in twenty eighteen, the family's unusual dynamic became a key building block in the States case against Angela, Billy Jake, and George Wagner. On August thirty first of last year, George Wagner appeared in court for a pre trial hearing.

Special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation testified that day. He provided details of what authorities had uncovered about the Wagner's over two years of investigating. Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Scheiterer, how would you describe the Wagner family. The Wagner family from what we found through the investigation as well as their own admittances, they're very close. When I say close, they lived together.

They've always lived together. There's not been a period of time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother or his mother. But their finances are intermingled. They worked together, They've always worked together. They homeschool together, they raised their kids together. Everything is done together. So from a birth until the day they were arrested, they lived together. Yes.

Do you have an opinion as whether or not one of them might strike out and go commit some Haynes tiding with the out and the others knowing about it or participating in it. No, we have an informant who says that every decision within that family is made as a family decision. Years after Angela Wagner forced George Wagner and Tabby Howard's relationship to end, the couple rekindled their romance.

Soon after, Victim Hanname Rodins started going out with Jake Wagner and the Rodens, Wagner's and Howard's became very close. Hannah's brother Victim Frankie Rodin even joined the Phray. Hannah and Tabby were best friends, and Hannah and Jake were together, and Tabby and George were together, and Frankie would hang out with him a lot because they were like best friends with Frankie, I suppose, so they were always like

going out hunting and fishing and stuff. Then one day, Tabby Howard came to her family with some surprising news. She and George Wagner were getting married. We didn't know anything about it until shortly before it, so Karen something like us, like, wow, that's crazy. Instead of excitement, Christina felt something much different based on her time spent around the family and accused mother Angela Wagner in particular. It just didn't feel right to me, and I thought I'd

speak my mind about it. I told her, I said, listen, you don't want to marry him, And she said, well why not? I said, because his mom is very controlling. I said, you want to wait a few years and see how things go before you, you know, jump into getting married to him and stuff. And she said, well, you're just full of it. You don't know what you're talking about. We love each other and everything, and Angie's

just trying to look out for me. So towards that part, I feel like Angie, you know, like kind of turned her against her family a bit more of like a I don't need you and I'm gonna spend my time with my new family. I get want her to get married because of the way I felt, but I felt like it wasn't my place, because you know, intervene. If she's happy, let her be. If not, she'll figure it out. On July first, twenty twelve, all three families gathered for

Tabby Howard and George Wagner's wedding. That was a normal, pretty wedding. It was kind of country because you know type. She had a camouflage dress and George she had a camo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy around here. They love it. Hanging up, you have somebody what their favorite collars and they're like, oh, it's camouflage. Me and two of my sisters and Hannah or her bridesmaids. The bridesmaids we wore black dresses. And Jake was George's best man. Obviously, the

Wagoners were there. There was Freddy, George and Angela and Billy and then some of the other Rodents were there and I was walking down the aisle with Frankie. They had a smash cake I guess you'd call it, you know, where you smashing into each other's faces. It was a really good wedding. Talk last episode about the photo of the Rodents and Wagner's from Tabby and George's wedding, and we can't stop looking at it because it's just so chilling.

The happiness on everyone's face is palpable. But Christina now sees details in the pictures she never saw before. In my mind, I feel like the people in the picture should be sorted out differently, you know, like in this placement, it's like Tabby and George just sent off to Spike because even though they're getting married, they're not the like the main attraction. And Angie is just like top center wearing that white dress, like laughing in their face like

ha ha, y'all are beneath me. Yeah. I was gonna ask you because people have different views. But some people think you don't wear white to anyone else's wedding. You know, why would aye wear white to another person's wedding? I mean, you're not supposed to do that, because that is like supposed to be like bad juju on the married couple, like saying that I hope that your wedding don't wind

long kind of thing. It's clear that George Wagner and Tabby Howard's wedding marked an inflection point in the lives of all three families. After that day, nothing would ever be the same. Shortly after the wedding, we stopped hearing from her. The last thing that we heard from Tabby was that she was pregnant was my nephew, and she was given birth to him, and that was it. We didn't get no pictures of him, no nothing. We didn't hear anything from Tabby, nothing from Angela or George or anybody.

They just like straight up disappeared. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Like many of us, you might think identity theft will never happen to you, but consider this. There's a new identity theft victim every three seconds in the US. That's over fifteen million people by the end of this year, equal to the populations of New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago combined. Even worse, identity theft victims often don't even

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ways that you simply can't on your own. Save up to twenty five percent your first year at LifeLock dot com slash iHeart. That's LifeLock dot com slash iHeart to save up to twenty five percent Identity theft protect starts here. Smart journalism, fascinating topics. Words that describe CNN's podcast The Assignment with Audi Cornish. I'm Audi Cornish, host of The Assignment,

a new weekly podcast from CNN. We're gonna talk about things you might not want to bring up at the dinner table, from the economy of sex work to the politics school boards, conversations with everyday people who don't make the headlines they live them. Listen to the assignment with Audi Cornish on the iHeartRadio app. He'll forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow, Thanks Grandpa, But he'll never forget how you invested in his future.

What the unst app Wow, Thanks Grandpa. Don't just give them any gift, give them a gift that can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to contribute to your child's future. What the unst app. Unst is an investment account for kids. Makes it easy to gift funds that can be used for college tuition, their first home, and more. Just by sharing the link or include a

UNSQR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For a limited time, download the unst app and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account. That's code I heart fifty when you sign up at une st dot coo for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at uns dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming service for people who want to know more more about

our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has the best collection of documentary films and TV shows, and now check out Curiosity's new series The Real Wild West. Rolling Stone Magazine says, it's the history of the West. They usually don't teach you the mythology of the West left out a lot of the people. American West is far more different, far more diverse. Stupously, they've never seen a cowboy. Well, we've been there, we've been doing it. I never really learned

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works for you when your budget. Go to curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity and sign up today. Nobody knew where they were, nobody knew what they were doing or anything, and it won't like that for a couple of years. Everybody was just so concerned about my sister because we're like, you know, we literally have not

heard a thing from her. Then one night, Tabby suddenly it was a call, like a random call in the middle of the night from a gas station, from a number we didn't know, and she's calling us, telling us, hey, can you come get me. I'm here at this gas station, and you know, we're freaking out, like, what's going on. We ain't heard nothing from you in a few years. She said, I don't really have time to explain, can come get me and all that. So we packed up in the car. It was me, my mom and dad

to go get my sister. And then we get there and she's bawling her eyes out. She rode there in the middle of the night. It was raining cats and dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. She rode there on a bike, and the police showed up and put my sister in a car in the cock car, asking her what was going on and everything, and apparently he

and George got into a fight. Angie called the cops on her and said that she was beating George and hitting was a two boy four and everything else, and tried to stab him with scissors and all this, And Tabby said that that wasn't how it happened. She said she was you know, I guess you got into a fight with George and Angie and George wouldn't like let her go and get his hands off of her. George didn't have any marks on him to prove that Tabby

had beaten him. Tabby didn't have any marks on her to prove that he was putting his hands on her. So nobody got arrested, just Tabby just got questioned and all that, and then you know, she comes home with us, and you know, we're sitting there trying to catch up on everything with Tabby. Howard told her family that it was deeply disturbing. Here's Christina's recollection of her sister's story. According to Tabby, Angie wouldn't let her like have a

phone nan. She always said that Tabby was crazy, and she was telling us all about how she was controlling, and Tabby said that she wasn't allowed to, you know, do anything with her kid, and Angie always said, no, you're not, you're crazy, You're an unfit mother. She said that she would all the time tell George about what's going on and everything, and George was like, oh, it's okay, you're just being dramatic. Mom wouldn't do that to you, and it's all for your own good blah blah blah.

We're just looking out for you. But why would they do that? What would they have to gain from, you know, sitting there keeping my sisters they basically a prisoner and you know, sitting there like mentally abusing her and everything else. What would they have the game from it? Other than you know, my nephew. Christina's story about Tabby's escape from the Wagner household may sound outrageous. However, it was convincing enough for Agent Scheiterer to testify about it in court

during George Wagner's hearing last year. Was George ever married? Yes? Who is he married to Tabitha? And did he still live with the family at the time during the time he was married to Tabitha? Yes, okay, So Tabitha lived with them? Yes, okay? And are you aware of what happened that ended that relationship? Yes? What happened? She fled the relationship. There was an incident on one particular day, her and George had gotten into an argument. Scheiderer included

a few frightening details that Christina hadn't told us. Eventually, there was a comment by Angelo that she was going to kill Tamithas so she fled to a gas station and ultimately never returned, And actually specifically, she first hit on the property until nightfall and then drove to a gas station and made her escape that way and never went back after that. Corrupt Soon after Tabby Howard fled the Wagner's household, the family became too much for victim

Hanname Rodin to bear as well. Hannah. I guess she told my sister that that was really courageous of her. She was proud of her. She was saying that she was tired of it, tired of always being controlled and told what to do and everything. So Hannah decided, you know, that she was going to leave too. It seems that Hanname Rodin left Jake Wagner due to the same reasons Tabby Howard left George. Some of these details were illuminated

at that same he for George Wagner last year. Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Ryan Scheiderer about some messages Hannah may had written. There were two other Rodent family members, and where about Jake, their breakup and her relationship with new boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Were you aware why Hannah May left Jake domestic violence issues between Jacobs solving her okay?

And you observed specific communications about that, Yes, she made it aware, she made people aware of it, yes, okay. Did she also make comments about the Wagner family as a whole being controlling? Yes. After she had left Jake, she started seeing another individual and ultimately conceived a second child with that individual, correct, yes, okay. And that was

who Charlie Guilley okay. And are you aware as to whether or not Hannah told Jake that she was pregnant and that she also told him who the father of the child was. She told Jake as well as Angela, that she was pregnant and it was Charlie Gilly's child, okay, During that time after she was pregnant Charlie Gilly's child. In the months leading up to the homicides, did she make it clear to Jake that they were not getting

back together? Very clear? Okay? And had he asked her to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to try to work out custody between them, Yes, she made attempts to get that done, yes, okay. And what was she interested in doing that. By the time hannahme Rodin left, Tabby Howard was in the middle of her own custody battle with Jake's brother, George Wagner. Well, we don't know all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's custody case.

There is evidence to support Christina's account of it. It was a preview of what would come to bear for Hanna May in the following months. My sister was gonna do joint custody. My mom tried to help my sister go through court and all that, with all that, you know, trying to help her, and my sister told my mom she said, no, it's okay, Angie will help me out with it. And why she trusted Angie with it is beyond me. And why she's still wanted to trust her

was court. I don't know. I don't know what it was running through tabbith head, But somehow she got Tabby to sign some paperwork saying that George would get full custody of my nephew and that Tabby would only get visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to leave the property. What's my nephew, Tabby Howard's custody story

was also highlighted by Agent Scheiderer. Last year, there was a divorce with some child custody issues where ultimately she was forced to give up all control of her son to George. So she gave up all of her parental rights. Okay, and when you see she was forced too, did someone who would have gone to her head? No? Okay? But in fact, what she prosed in the custody proceedings and not represented by an attorney correct? Okay? And what George

was Yes. Despite the Wagner's repeated attempts to keep Tabby away from her son, she tried to visit him as much as she could. Whenever she would try to reach out to George like hey, can I come visit my son, Angela would get on there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore. You might have gave bart to him, but on his mother because I take care of em and all these just nasty things. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back at a moment.

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dot com to find your perfect match today. He'll forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow, Thanks Grandpa, But he'll never forget how you invested in his future. What do you nest apt Wow? Thanks Grandpa. Don't just give them any gift, give them a gift that can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends

to contribute to your child's future with the UNSTAP. Unst is an investment account for kids that makes it easy to gift funds that can be used for college tuition, their first home, and more, just by sharing the link or include a UNSQR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For a limited time, download the unstap and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a fifty dollar bonus when you fund your account. That's code I Heart fifty when you sign up at

une st dot coo for a fifty dollar bonus. See terms and conditions at unest dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming service built by and for people who want to know more more about our world and beyond. Curiosity Stream has the best collection of documentary films and TV show about everything from the history of human migration to the future of space travel. With thousands of titles, curiosity has something for everyone science, wildlife, travel, human stories, culture,

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your budget. Go to curiosity stream dot com to satisfy your curiosity and sign up today. How A Rude Tantarino's a Full House Rewatch podcast is here. Join us as hosts Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber look back on their journey together as the iconic characters we all love, Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler. Here's a quick preview, brought to

you by the Hunday two Soon. We spent our entire childhoods on a little show called Full House, playing frenemies but becoming besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, and now, thirty five years later, it's our biggest adventure yet watching the original series together from beginning to end, seasons one through eight, from adorable childhood to those awkward teen years and beyond what awkward teen years? Ye, Geek Burger Andrea. We are bringing back the Milkman, the Paperboy and Evening DV.

We'll be reliving every moment with you, and we'll be joined by our Full House family, including all your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes. We'll reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within the show, and we'll take a trip down memory lane together. You can listen to how Rude Tanta Ritos on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the Hunday two Soon it's your journey. Tabby Howard made

one last valiant effort to see her son. It was an Easter because I remember my sister made her son an Easter basket, you know, wanting to give it to him for Easter and everything. I went there with her. It was me her and my mom, and my mom stayed in the car and I got out of the car with Tabby and we walked up her you know, knocker on the door because she had previously called George j askin him if she could come see her son

and give him an Easter basket. He said, yeah, that's fine, come on over and you can see your son and give him his Easter basket. And she said all right. So we went there, and then once we got there, Angie answered the door, and you know, Tabby said, oh, I'm here to see my son. Can I have a few minutes, you know, spend a few minutes with him

for Easter? She said, let me go get George, and then she slammed the door, and my sister's faith and we're sitting out there wait in a good ten fifteen minutes, and then George comes out. She asked George, she said, what was that about why was your mom, you know, being hateful. I didn't do anything. And he was like, oh, she's just not in a good move today. And she said, where's our son? You know, I'd like to see him. You said I could come see him. He said, oh,

he's in there with a fever right now. He's sick from staying up all night and day throwing a fit and everything else, you know, just coming up with another excuse. And then my sister started crying. She said, well, I just wanted to see my son. You said I could. What's the problem. Man. He was till her like, oh, don't cry, Everything's all right. And then he like tried to hug her, and she said, no, I don't want to hug you know. She said, don't touch me, and

he's like, all right, I won't touch you. You know. She was like wiping away her tears and stuff. She said, well, can you at least give this to our son, and if you have time, whenever he gets it, can you send me a picture of him with it, Even if it's just a picture. I'm happy to see my son. I don't know if he ever got the Eastern basket or not, or if they threw it away. I don't know, like Tabby Howard victim, Hannim Rodin kept up the fight for her child after she and Jake Wagner had broken up.

But the Rodents had one advantage Tabby didn't. We didn't have money like the Roden's got money, because they had money too, maybe not as much as the Wagner's, but they still they still, you know, lived pretty damn comfortably. If they wanted to, you know, take Andye to court and all that, and Andie would have a world problem on her hands, especially since they had money too. And Hannah was the mom and here and Ohias, the mom

has the right. And they weren't married, You're a sister, and George were married, which immediately changes the custody discussion from the start. So unlike with the two of you, Kenna and Jake were unmarried, so he legally had no rights.

So that became an added trigger potentially right. And it seems that the Wagners knew that we talked last season about forged custody documents the Wagners had drawn up in order to get sole custody of Hannahme Rodin and Jake Wagner's young daughter, Agent Scheiderer discussed the genesis of these custody documents, also called declaration documents, in great detail at George Wagner's hearing last year. Here's an excerpt from that testimony.

You seize the computer from the Wagner's Is that correct? Trut okay? And that computer was analyzed for evidence. Correct. During that review of the content of the computer, you discovered that there had been documents Googled searched for on April thirty, twenty sixteen. Correct, declaration documents correct, okay. And then do you also see that those documents were printed out of the computer on the same day. Yes. Yeah, the bottom corner of the pages it says April third,

twenty sixteenth. Okay, So like computers sometimes do when you print something and it says what date you're prints act. Did you ultimately recover those documents, the actual physical documents, yes, okay. And it's your testimony that one of them was a declaration reportedly made were apparently made by Hannah May where it bore what was in tended to be her signature. Correct. Did you submit all of these documents to be examined by a handwriting expert within VCI, Yes, Okay. Did you

find out if in fact that was her signature. We did, it was not her signature, okay. Additionally, you talked about the fact that they were dated at a prior time, and so I'm clear, are you saying that they were in fact backdated? Yes, that is backdated as if it were signed in twenty fourteen by hand and a correct. Okay. So they print out a piece of paper on April thirty, twenty sixteen. You see evidence of that in the computer

that it is also printed out that same day. You later also recover the original documents with a raised stamp on it. Correct, and that piece of paper in existence twenty fourteen, correct, So it could not have been signed on those days, correct, okay. Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa noted the unusual settlement on the Wagner's forged custody documents. This paper says, if Hannah is to meet her demise, then Sophia should go to Jake correct. Okay. But if Jake meets his demise,

then his child goes to his mom correct, not to Hannah. Correct. Last season, we highlighted an ominous Facebook message that hannahme Rodin had written during her protracted custody battle with Jake. It was discovered on a laptop owned by the Wagner family. Agent Scheider spoke about that message and the warning she received from someone who was intimately familiar with the Wagner's

nefarious ways. At the hearing, you talked about the fact that this relationship between Jake and Hannah was not going well, that he was bugging her to sign stuff giving him custom. Obviously they forged documents that if she were to die, Jake would get testody. Was there a specific communication that sticks out in your mind that Hannah may made to another person that the Wagoners became aware of. Yes, a Facebook message? Okay, Messenger message? Okay, so a messenger message?

Then who was that message too, Patricia? But it would be Tabitha's mother, Okay, Tabitha George's wife. You said it was a private messenger, correct, Yes, And so if I'm understanding correctly, private messenger is not something that anyone else would be able to see except for the two people that are messaging each other. Correct. Are you aware whether or not the Wagoners became aware of that conversation? Absolutely,

we're aware of it. And how do you know that there is a screenshot of this conversation found on the laptop that belonged to the Wagner family. Okay, the device was registered to Jake, but there's strong evidence that Angela seemed to be the primary user of that laptop. Can you tell us what were they discussing at the time that she made this statement. The theme of the conversation was, basically, Patricia was telling Hannah, you know, don't let what happened

to Tabitha happen to you. You know, don't you keep fighting for your kid. Don't give up your kid, you know, basically saying, don't don't become another Tabitha. Okay, And what does Hannah say in a response to that? This is the copy of the body of their text their conversation, and her reply is, I won't sign papers. Ever, it

won't happen. They will have to kill me first. So not only did was that Hannah Ma's sentiments at the time that she would not sign papers ever, that they would have to kill her first was her sentiments on December tenth, twenty fifteen. And you know for a fact that the Wagner saw it, in fact, the same day as she said that. Correct, Yes, okay, and jo Oba. Four months later, Anna and all of her family are dead. Correct. I have another question, John. After the Rodent family was murdered,

Christina Howard and her family were panicked. Pretty much, a whole bloodline gets marched off over the custody of one kid. And you know, my sister is she's got a kid with them too. And you know, after we heard about it, we were like, oh shit, better up on security because we ain't We ain't about to get crossed out. But when the Wagoners were arrested in twenty eighteen, Tabby Howard's nightmare finally came to an end. Once they were arrested.

He was in like a child protective services for a while, and after a few months she was finally granted full custody of her son. Following Jake Wagner's admission in court just weeks ago, Christina had to come to terms with her feelings about the one Wagner. She thought she could always trust grandmother, the accused, Frederica, I love, but she's very gullible. They probably told her some crazy stuff like all these people are after us, they're trying to frame

us for these murders. Blah blah blah, well, of course, if I'm gollible, I'm gonna hide them, not saying she did or anything, but like and in that kind of situation. Yeah,

So what does the Wagner's sort did history mean? If Angela, Billy, and George decide to stand trial, they all maintained their please of not guilty, it may force Jake Wagner to go to court and sit in front of his mother, father, and brother and in front of a jury and spill as guts and a lot of things we haven't known in the last five years are going to be known. Then you know who went into what home, who died first,

why they died. You've got to believe we are going to learn things we never knew before and hear things you would have never believed. And if the trials move forward, the stakes for Pike County prosecutors couldn't be higher. The case that the prosecution is building against the Wagner family. It's not a single story of ranch. It's a freaking mansion.

And they're investing a lot of time, a lot of hours, a lot of capital and this thing, and they don't want to see it fail because if this thing fails, can you imagine what a nightmare this is. If one little thing goes wrong with it, the whole case can be destroyed. But on April twenty eight, twenty twenty one, less than one week after Jake Wagner's plea dale took place, his brother George, appeared in a Pike County courtroom. Reporter

Anjeanette Leady was on the scene. George just found out in the week prior that his brother had confessed and implicated his whole family. His attorney had been so steadfast in court documents and saying, you know, my guy didn't do this, He wasn't involved. Well, clearly now his brother was saying that's not the case. That George the fourth

was very much involved. I think we were all wondering, what is this emotions hearing when of you, like, was George Wagner going to change his plea More on that next time. The Pikedon Massacre Returned to Pike County is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, Chris Graves, Tim Hamilton, and

Haley Nilsen Engineering by Jason Freeman. The piked In Massacre Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Since her role as White House correspondent, Caitlyn Collins has never been afraid to dicty. She's a reliable, deeply sourced reporter and is always willing to hold the powerful accountable.

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