Alternate Theories

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members of the Rodan family. Four suspense are Billy and Angela Wagner and their sons George. The fourth day. These four individuals are now in custody for alleged late committing this heartless, ruthless, cold blooded murder. Two others have been charged with helping to cover up the grizzly crime rider Joe Nukam and Fredrik Kirol Wagner under house arrest connected to the killings of eight members of the Rodan family

to judges said bond and one hundred thousand dollars. But while Ohio's largest murder investigation brings the alleged killers to stand trial, it also raises some unsettling questions about the victims themselves. There had been reports of scuple with other people in public. There were indications that they were involved

in some drug deals in drug trade. Law enforcements yet to say if the extensive marijuana crew operation they found is connected to the death, And now two years after the arrests, the residents of Piked in Ohio are conflicted about what really happened on the early morning of April twenty sixteen. I think there's more to it, and I don't know if we'll ever get to treat about it, to be honest with yet. This is the Piked and

Massacre Episode four alternate theories. In the last episode, we examine the motive that authorities believe lie at the center of the brutal killings of eight members of the Roden family, a feud between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin over the custody of their two and a half year old daughter, Sophia. Though it is important to remember that the Wagners are all innocent until proven guilty, there is mounting evidence to

support the custody theory. Still, nearly two years after the arrests, some sens of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their guilt. You know the BCI, you know in the state of Ohio, poor County. They're not really wanting to spend a lot of money on it. Somebody did it, but it wasn't. Now it just doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, because who else would do that. I wish we knew exactly what happened. I knew people kill people with her custody, but not that many people. I think

there's more to it. It's bigger than what people think it is, and I don't know if we'll ever get the truth about it. To be honest with you, that's exactly what we're going to explore in this episode. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Katie Studios. With Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. We worked on a documentary about the case back in twenty nineteen. One thing the three of us know for sure is that the Rodents did not

deserve this by all accounts. They were just a loving and caring family, and their loss is felt throughout the entire community. And that's really why we want to bring down only them, but the entire town of Piked injustice and hopefully shut a light on the crime and help bring everyone in some sense of closure. Following the Roden murders, it was two and a half years before the Wagners

were arrested. In that time, many other plausible theories were put forward, and there are those who believe that some of them are credible possibilities. When we began researching the story, we kept hearing rumblings about two of the victims. We haven't discussed much yet. The Roden sons, Chris Junior and Frankie. From all accounts, twenty year old Frankie was a wonderful man. He was a devoted father and excited about his upcoming marriage to his fiance, Hannah Gilly. Chris Junior was just

a few years younger than Frankie. Brittany, one of Chris Junior's oldest friends, talked to Stephanie about her memories of him growing up. When did you and Chris Junior meet for the first time? How old were you? Guys? We were young. We were either in kindergarten or first grade, and you were friends from that day forward. Yes, we actually dated first grade. He was the love of my life. What did the first grade version of you love about him?

That he's a little bad noise and that's how he always was, Like he was the guy that he's like, I know, I have it all like. He was that type of boy growing up. One of the things that kept coming up when we talked to people around town was the Roden Boys love of demolition derby. Frankie and Chris Junior were very passionate about demolition derby racing. They spent most of their time building and rebuilding these cars

to race in Derby's all across Ohio. We spoke to journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent some time at Derby Races as part of his investigation into the Roden murders. Demolition derby is if you've seen it on TV, it's it looks like chaos, and to a degree it is, but it's you know, raining into people. There's a lot of loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete flying, and there's fires, smoke and dirt, and it's exciting and fun and people who love it love it. The Rodents were

deeply involved in demolition derbies in the area. They were very much part of that culture. But demolition derbies are are really intense. You're smashing each other, I mean, emotions get high. Jeff told us about one derby that Chris Junior and Frankie participated in in May of twenty fifteen that ended in a bloody altercation. Based on what's been reported and the court documents, I think it's fair to say that Frankie and Chris Junior, I mean definitely were

hotheads and definitely got into fights here and there. They had an incident with a fellow named Tommy Gorman, who was a rival in the demolition derbys. They got into a bit of a sort of heated match and there was a believe a sort of incident on the track.

They got up to stay with each other's in bad blood, and then again it's you know, kind of picked up speed with Facebook posts about sort of consulting each other, and then of course Chris Junior Frankie drove over to Gorman's house and proceeded to really beat on Gorman and his father, and the fights and beatings were only really broken up after the grandfather came out and pumped a

few shotgun shells into the air. According to reports, the Rodents showed up with a dozen friends and proceeded to brutally assault Tommy Junior and even knocked out his father, Tommy Senior's front teeth in the aftermath of the fight. Frankie was arrested and sentenced to less than a year's probation for the attack. Chris Junior was a juvenile at the time of the attack, and no court records are

available that charges made against him. Here's our producer Jeff Shane speaking to Jeff Winkler and was Tommy and his family. Were they ever looked at a suspects do you know, like, did the sheriff ever interview them or see if they were involved. I mean, the press had had talked to the Gorman family after hearing about these fights, you know, on Facebook, but far as I know, the law enforcement

never really approached them. While the Gorman's admitted to reporters that there was some bad blood between them and the Rodent family, it was not enough to retaliate and certainly not enough to kill over. In fact, the Gorman family were never suspects in the investigation, but there were more people to look into as our investigation unfolded, so too to the list of people who could have wanted payback

on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold, another local kid who had gotten into an altercation with Chris Junior just two weeks before the Rodents were murdered. Long gold Head posted on Facebook that Chris Junior hid him with a car and in his message, you know, he uses some pretty tough language. I mean, Rusty was nineteen at the time, and you know he's talking about I'm going to break his fucking legs and curb stop his ass, and I

mean just sort of sort of nineteen year old bluster. Really, the Rusty Mongold thing happened just two weeks before the murders, so I mean, I think this was pretty obvious that the investigators had to check that out. And of course he got pulled over and was detained and even did a DNA sample, But it was pretty clear that you'd nothing to do with it. But you know, that kind of language is certainly going to grab the attention of

the authorities, especially after something like this. But the authorities finding no clear link between Rusty Mongold, the Gorman family, and the road and murders, the feeling around Piketon was still ominous. No one knew who could be responsible for the mass murder, or even if the responsible parties lived

next door. Jeff Winkler fills us in on yet another incident that happened leading up to the murders, according to court documents, on February twenty fourth, and this was two months before the murders, so two months before the murders. In late February, Chris Junior was involved in a road rage incident with a thirty three year old woman named

repect Allen. Apparents of the court records Rebecca had slapped Chris Junior in the face, but she also made threats against him and his mother, Dana, which were recorded on a cell phone. Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden, Chris Junior's mom, got involved as well, and Rebecca Allen ultimately got two years probation, forty hours of community service, and a restraining order against contacting Chris Junior and Dana Roden. This was on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one day before

the murders took place. There were definitely some scrapes, some posturing, and yeah, some social media threats, But is that really motive enough to murder eight people? Of course not, But the timing of it is interesting. You know, as we try to understand what's happened, it's important to know everything this family was going through up until the murders, because we don't know what's important until we know it's important. But going back to Rebecca Allen and the road rage

incident for just one second. Leonard Manley, Danna's father, who at this point was just trying to cope with the tragedy, was quoted in the news as saying that Rebecca Allen should be looked into with regards to the massacre Dania Roden's family. The Manlies were deeply entrenched in the Rodent's day to day lives and they were a key piece of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe Manley, for example, she's the one who discovered their bodies and also made

that first nine one one call. Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr. The days after this, the nine when one calls were beginning to be produced, so then you could get a picture of what happened that morning that you know, a family member went into the first home and found the first two dead, Gary and Chris Senior. Okay, that's idea. Okay, what's your name my Bobby Stry, Yeah, what's your name? Christler?

That was Bobby Joe Manly. You hear about James Manley going over to Dana's house, finding his sister, dad, his niece and nephew. So you start getting some more pieces to put together in this puzzle, and then you realize, well, wait a minute, why were they there? Police want to know that too. We found out from Lynn Manly that's Dana Rodin's father, James Manley's father. That Bobby Joe and James were both taken down into the Pike County Sheriff's

office and interrogated. So from the outset, when you look at that and you go, well, obviously they had two people in mind. These were the two people who made the initial finds of the bodies that morning and made those nine on one cause. And then we had gotten word that investigators wanted to know who paid them to murder their own family. Over the next few weeks, Bobby Joe Manley has questioned several times these people are not only being looked at in murder suspects, they're going through

the entire process. They're being interrogated, they're given polygraphs. I can tell you I spoke with Bobby Joe Manley on the porch of her father's home and she was She told me that she was given three polygraph tests and passed every one. As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides, authorities began taking a closer look at James Manley, and it's not too long before they make a stunning discovery about who he talked to on the night of the murders.

In the overnight hours at two am. This would have been just for all we know, minutes before the murders two in the morning. I mean the bodies were found, you know, at sun up, but that at two in the morning, James was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake obviously now charged in these murders. We didn't know the context of those texts, but we do know that happened, and you know, just strange suspicions. And then James Manly took a polygraph and failed that. We're going to take a

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race against time by four mothers who went undercover. My partner abducted our six year old son and took him out of the country. This was a mother's worst nightmare. I didn't know what to do, and we'll stop at nothing. I knew something bad for the children they love. This is the mission to get the child back. I was so scared I would have to disguise myself to get him. You're not keeping my child for incredible heart racing story. I'm not a detective. I just wanted my family back together.

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I have no idea because we don't know the questions were asked without sufficient evidence to charge him. James Manley is released, but police continue to keep an eye on him. Something to think about is that no arrests were made after this questioning or the alleged polygraph failure, So it's not like the police found some sort of smoking gun that implicated him in the crimes. Furthermore, in the state of Ohio, polygraphic examinations are admitted under limited circumstances in

the court of law. In the state. Only if all parties, including the defendant, defense attorney, and the prosecutor, agree in advance to the admissibility of the results, will the court be inclined to admit them. Plus, it's really not uncommon for immediate family members, particularly those who have discovered bodies, to be considered air quotes suspects at first. It's just a natural place for most investigations to begin. All that's said, I can only imagine how difficult that must have been

for the manlies. We found out later that you know, he was. It was some respects a potential target of the investigation because we know that investigators put a GPS device underneath James Manley's pickup truck and for whatever reasons they follow need to track him. And then James many finds that this GPS tracker attached to the underside of his pickup truck, he rips that off, and then he's

arrested for doing that. This all happens in May of twenty seventeen, three hundred and ninety days after James Manley's sister and her family were murdered. He's charged with two felonies, tampering with evidence and vandalism, both counts for removing the tracking device on his car. I can remember, you know, getting that news late late in the day and driving straight to Ross County, Ohio to the jail where James Manley was booked and you know, being held overnight or

waiting a bond hearing. But on the way there, you're trying to replay these conversations in your mind that you know, what were the scenarios that involved James. Why is there a GPS tracker on the brother of the a dead family. I mean, this was hitting really close to home. So again, every trip to Pike County was this cloud of suspicion and confusion. You wonder if they arrested him on those charges to try to just bring him in and hopes that they would then question him and he would admit

to something murder related. You know, that was a suspicion. You know, it's like, man, where is this going to end up? You know, because the story is horrible and horrific enough. But six days after his arrest, the charges against James Manley are dismissed. It's another dead end for investigators. Another leading theory at the time was the involvement with the drug cartel. The Rodents did have marijuana growing on their property, and it was not just a few plants

here and there in the window. It was a lot. A law enforcement source has confirmed that investigators found some two hundred marijuana plants on all of the properties. The same source said that the size of the operation indicates it was being grown for sale and not for personal use.

And just to put that into perspective, each plant could produce around one pound of marijuana and a pound of high grade quality marijuana had a street value of around two thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents had in their possession four hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana.

I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment rate and PIKED in Ohio is one hundred and fifteen percent higher than the national average, and I share that simply to say, by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard working people, and the fact that there was this marijuana grow operation in their backyard kind of erased the entire investigation, as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of drug dealers who had it coming, and based on our research,

that really doesn't add up. It should be noted that around the same time as the murders, marijuana was being legalized for medicinal use in the state of Ohio, So in theory, the Rodents could have been growing the crop to be distributed for people who were prescribed marijuana legally to treat things like cancer and Alzheimer's. Also, when Jeff and I were in Piked in the last time, somebody said something to us in passing, and it's always sort

of stuck with me regarding the marijuana grow operation. On the one hand, if it was a small operation, how would that possibly come institute a drug cartel hit of this size? Four different locations. It felt very personal. Each crime scene seemed to tell a story of sorts, not

totally the moo of the drug cartel. In our research on the flip, if it was a large scale operation, they would have needed a lot of equipment, specialized lighting, and that lighting likely would have caused a bit of a surge in electricity that would have been noticeable by the electric company number one and number two. It also would have been very bright. Where they lived was a very rural road. It's dark, there's no street lights. How

would a grow operation of that size go unnoticed? Yeah, and based on all of our research, if it really was the drug cartel, they would have killed the dogs and the kids. They leave no one behind. I think it's okay for us to confirm that we did find marijuana in three locations. There's a grow operations. Our producer Jeff Shane spoke to investigative journalist James Pilcher, who was

in piked in just after the announcement was made. That obviously feeled even more speculation that these were outside operators. Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad, or was somebody trying to take over their turf. All kinds of rumors started to slow after that disclosure. So this idea that like a drug cartel being a potential culprit, it does sound crazy. The small town infiltrated by you know, international drug dealers in the middle of Appalachian in southern Ohio.

You know, but if it turned out to be that, we would not have been suppressed because Mexican drug cartels had done a lot of activity in southern Ohio, in Pike County, in Siotta County, and in Ross County. In fact, in August twenty twelve, law enforcement officers found a major marijuana grow site in Pike County. It had suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During that raid, officials destroyed about twelve hundred marijuana plants and found two abandoned campsites

that they believe belonged to Mexican nationals. The main route from southern Ohio to Columbus, which is the next biggest city next to Cincinnati, cuts right all through there, So you have those people coming in and out. Now, were the rodents involved directly in the narcotics business. There were indications that they were involved in some drug deals and drug trade with marijuana. The Rods had attack dogs, which again belies that all American image, which means what did

they have to hide? They had attack dogs, the security cameras, there was a lot of security at that place. They wanted to protect what they had. Now does that mean that they were doing anything wrong? Not necessarily, but it certainly raised a lot of questions. Journalist Jodie Barr walked off through the logic of the drug cartel theory. As the months war on, no one has been arrested, no

one charged, no people named as persons of interest. You really started to wonder, you know, maybe this drug cartel things there was something too that they definitely knew how to kill people. You know, you're looking for signs of the drug cartel, and then you find Kenneth Rowden with what appeared to be a gunshot in the head, but that there were dollar bills or some sort of paper money spread around the body. Was that a sign? What

did that mean? You know, as you know a reporter, you're steadying back trying to draw conclusion or at least a lead from what this meant? I mean, what does that mean? There's a body lying there with money on it, so, of course a drug cartel. At that point in time, you couple with the Attorney General announcing that they found commercial grow operations, it made sense. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. He'll

forget about the video game you gave him on his birthday. Wow, thanks grandpa, but he'll never forget how you invested in his future with the unst app. Wow, thanks grandpa. Don't just give them any gift, give them a gift that can grow with them. Invite grandparents and family friends to contribute to your child's future with the unst app. Unst is an investment account for kids that makes it easy to gift funds that can be used for college tuition,

their first home, and more. Just by sharing the link or include a UNQR code on party invitations for birthdays and holidays. For a limited time, download the unst stapp and use the code I Heart fifty at sign up to receive a fifty dollars bonus when you fund your account. That's code I Heart fifty when you sign up at une sto for a fifty dollars bonus. See terms and conditions at unest dot coo. Curiosity Stream is the streaming service built by and for people who want to know

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Now streaming only on Hulu. Experience for yourself a real life race against time by four mothers who went undercover. My ex partner abducted our six year old son and took him out of the country. This was a mother's worst nightmare. I didn't know what to do, and we'll stop at nothing. I knew something better for the children they love. This is the mission to get the child back. I was so scared I would have to disguise myself to get him. You're not keeping my child for incredible

heart racing stories. I'm not a detective. I just wanted my family back together. I had to live a double life to save my son. This is the last chance to get my kids back, and that's when all help breaks loose. It has to be away. Go Go, Go. Experience the stunning new true crime docuseries Mother Undercover. I wanted him to know, you mess with the wrong mother, now streaming only on whoever search Mother Undercover up. You will fail. So what everybody does, but your jim your watch,

your yoga pants, They pretend you won't. So when you miss a day, eat the pancakes, give up on a workout, you failed. Seriously, What the hell we're body? We've been a part of that too, but not anymore at body or rejecting perfection, an embracing reality, not in a pizza Monday kind of way, in a loving your whole life kind of way. In this workout is fun and it's okay if I take a week off kind of way, in an I'm eating healthy and it's okay if I indulge kind of way, in a I like myself. No

matter what kind of way. Yeah, you will fail, we all will. But we're not going to let that be the end. And see that we're already making progress. So let's keep going. We are Body. Start your free trial at body dot com. That's Bodi dot com. The discovery of the Rodents grow operation didn't just complicate the case and who might be responsible. It forced the residence of

Pyton to reconsider their feelings for the family. As soon as Dwine and Reader made that announcement of the commercial grow operations that appeared to change the entire public perception of these murders. The empathy for this family, and even the monetary donations that were coming in to help bury these people, all of that stopped. There was a large reward put up by Jeff Ruby, a restaurant owner in Cincinnati, that was rescinded that day. The public support they were

getting almost vanished that day. I mean, these were eight innocent people, and then sort of flifted on his head that you know, these were eight people potentially involved in some large drug operation and the people seemingly just instantly stopped caring. And you know, all that momentum the family had of you know, the public being interested in this by trying to solve it, taking care of this, you know, these kids who were left trying to bury these eight people.

I mean, that's a large expense that vanished that day, and that was over as soon as that announcement was made. However, those closest to the family never believed that Cartel was behind the murders. Is Kenneth Roden's daughter. Kenneth was that eighth victim, the final victim found. I worked out an interview with Kendred and her mother at their home, and I mean, through that interview we finally got to look

at how close his family really was. Kendred just going through her phone with her She had pictures with Hannah, she had pictures with Chris Junior, she had pictures with Dana, her father obviously was a large part of the photos stored on her phone. I mean, they looked like a normal family. I mean there was nothing in those pictures that would indicate that, you know, a week later, eight of these people in these pictures would no longer draw the breath of life. Man. You just it was nothing

to indicate that. And you're looking at these pictures and you're looking for some clue, You're looking for that sign from Kendrem when you're invited into her home. You saw

none of that. I mean, it was almost like, That's why it's almost unbelievable that it even happened, because when you look at these photographs and you talk to these people, they're just like anybody else you'd ever talk to, a typical rural American family who rose to this notorious, you know, platform through the nightly news coming out and telling the world about their darkest hour. Eight people murdered in their

homes while they slept, children spared covered with blood. And it's like you try to reconcile what you saw on those photographs and the story that Kendra Roden was telling about this family to the picture that you now have of them murdered in these homes, apparently involved in some sort of commercial drug industry, and then you try to put all that together. I mean, I don't know how the hell you figure that out. It was so confusing. So if it wasn't a drug cartel, who was it.

Let's shift our focus back to the Wagners for a minute. Could there be other motives aside from the custs dispute between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin. As we found out from speaking to journalist Jeff Winkler, there were more connections between the Rodens and the Wagners than just Hannah and Jake. Obviously, the families shared a grandchild together, so there was just a lot of interaction between the families. But as the investigation went on, you know, there was a clear sort

of trail between Christopher Roden Senior and Bill Wagner. They had been long time acquaintances, possibly friends, and also business partners. They were just you know, some little boy entrepreneurs. These are multi generational families in the same area, so yeah, they just again that sort of mix of family and friends and neighbors, business partners. It all sorts of blends in together. Angela Wagner even had said to the press that her and her husband and Chris Senior were longtime

friends like they were. The Wagners. Were presenting them as close allies, and I think some of that was, of course, is trying to, you know, sort of trade the family as not adversarial to the Rodents. But they had something to have fallen out before the murders. Attorney and legal commentator Mike Allen philed us in back in mid April two thousand and sixteen. Supposedly there was a fight between Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Witnesses say ended with Billy

threatening to quote come back and finish them all. Nobody seems to know what the fight was about or what caused it. But you know, these two families, from everything that I've seen, were probably not shy about taking care of business if they felt somebody abused them or their family. So could this all have stemmed from some kind of

business arrangement gone wrong? Though we can't be positive. One thing we do know is that the detail of Christinior's autopsy seems to indicate that his death was much different than the other seven victims. Here's James Pilcher speaking to Jeff again. Of all the crimeses that day, like his

was known to be the worst. Yeah, he was shot the most first of all, he was shot nine times, possibly because he was trying to fight back, but possibly because you know, the vendetta was mostly against him, or that he was the primary target, I should say. And then they positioned his body in a certain way and actually drug his body away from where he had originally fallen, so that gave investigators even more of an indication that

this was personal. An anonymous Wagner family relative told Jeff that the situation between the Wagners and the Rodents was reaching a boiling point. This was just before the Rodents were found dead. I knew that they were the families Hanness, the Rodents and you know my family. They were fighting. There was a lot of tension there, bad blood there, but I never thought in a million years that they had anything to do with that. To me, it's just

it's so overwhelming. It's there's a feeling that is almost indescribable. It's kind of like, you know, you don't know how to react, so you're constantly at least I am at this, like it said, like it does a war with my emotions,

my feelings because I beloved him so much. She know when I care about him, and they our family, that's your family, So it's hard to just turn your back and be like, Okay, well you're a freaking monster, so I want nothing to do with you, and I don't love you no more, I don't care about you no more. So it seems like your relationship with Angela and her family really changed and never really was the same. Yep,

it did. It was absolutely mind blowing. I just couldn't I couldn't picture it because I knew them completely different people, you know what I mean, Like I would have never pictured Angela being capable, or or the boys of any of that. When we first heard about the road and murders, we were shocked at the brutality of it all. And when we first got to piked In, we couldn't believe

that these murders took place in this community. But upon speaking to residents and learning more about the town, we discovered that the Rodents were not the first murder victims who called piked In home. You know, if you look back through the history of piked and there's quite a bit of things that just happened that, you know, there's no explanation for get swept under the rug. I don't know. I think there's just more evil there than than just

what happened to those eight. Pike County is beautiful. It's a beautiful place, but there's a lot of dirty people here too. For the town that we you know the size of our town, there's been a lot of murders here that have not been solved. More on that next week. Piked and Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker.

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