Recognizing Opportunity & How Seeking Discomfort Creates Breakthroughs with Jarrad Seng

INTRO:

00:00.00
smacey
Welcome back to another episode of the photographer mindset podcast I'm half the hosting team here Seth Macey and and we had another australian guest today Jarrad seng incredibly nice. Well-spoken.

00:05.57
aaronmannes
And I'm the other half Aaron Mannes

00:17.44
smacey
Human and incredibly talented photographer. He has you know toured with passenger for the better part of ah a decade I imagine he's creative director worked on a lot of music videos done 4 solo exhibitions. Has done a lot of work for tourism boards was even on survivor Australia or australian survivor. So one of the themes I guess the main theme of today's episode was just saying yes to creative opportunity saying yes to things that are going to I guess build a. Cool life for yourself when you look back on it. Twenty thirty forty fifty years from now and I think one of the ah you know the ingredients for saying yes to cool things is like again how we always say getting uncomfortable and and not being. Risk averse taking calculateator risk but not being risk averse because you know that's when that's when character is born and that's when we you know molt out of our previous selves into a better version of ourselves. What did you think of today's episode what do you think of Jared.

01:23.90
aaronmannes
I mean I'm always a sucker for the Australian accent so he could say anything he could say anything and I'd be like I just be like yeah Ah, no yeah, you're right? um.

01:26.84
smacey
Um, you are just sounds like butter.

01:35.94
aaronmannes
It was great. We we talk about a lot of things he he has the mindset of a lot of the things that we have discussed in the past and probably will continue to discuss in the future Spoiler alert he did survive survivor so he is here. Um, that would that would have been a.

01:46.91
smacey
And.

01:54.15
aaronmannes
Ah, tough end to the intro that was it. Um no, but I I loved it I Thought there's a lot to take away from it. Let's get started with it.

01:54.21
smacey
Yeah.

02:00.36
smacey
Okay, let's do it.

INTERVIEW:

01:34.31
smacey
You're ah you know you're big in the um concert photography. You've toured with passenger among many other amazing artists. You've what have you had for solo exhibitions. Um. Done a lot of crazy cool stuff I just I don't even know where to begin with you I've done my research I've read what I can about you without actually having you here in front of me. Ah, where would you like to start on this journey maybe at the maybe at the beginning.

01:53.12
Jarrad Seng
Um, oh yeah I think you fight it's a common problem. Even yeah, um.

01:54.24
aaronmannes
Yeah, neither.

02:07.90
Jarrad Seng
You're describing what it's like for me because when I try and and tell other people. What I do or or talk to other photographers because it is I Guess the way I've approached my life which I'm I'm glad about ah is to do do anything do anything everything as long as it's It's fun. Um, or I can you know see see some growth coming out of an opportunity I'll I'll do it. No no matter what it is um that has led me into like so many different directions where like you said,, there's so many random things that that ah that I.

02:33.99
smacey
A.

02:44.91
Jarrad Seng
Have experienced and it's not necessarily all in um, you know one area which you know I like the other pathway of course is to you know, just take this one pathway and dedicate yourself to this one thing which some of my other friends have done to an amazing level.

02:46.77
smacey
Um, bright.

02:51.30
smacey
Um, right.

03:04.60
Jarrad Seng
And I've kind of taken the opposite approach of spreading myself out and just taking everything in I think I think both kind of ideas are ah valid.

03:12.94
smacey
Yeah, excellent I mean I really resonate with that wake up and find something cool to do every day and not really know what's coming. You know that that excites me rather than gives me anxiety I know for some people not knowing what they're doing for the day is like oh my god I couldn't operate that way. What do you think? maybe the very first.

03:22.69
Jarrad Seng
Um.

03:30.26
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, um.

03:32.84
smacey
Big opportunity. You know you mentioned you say let's say yes to everything that's cool or has an opportunity. What was you know, maybe a pivotal moment where you first said, yes to something that you you know didn't really care if it would pan out into anything bigger. You just were excited to do it.

03:51.24
Jarrad Seng
Um, okay, it might not be the first one but definitely it was a pivotal moment like photography career wise um, was when I first went on tour with a passenger who you mentioned um this was maybe 2 years in to me taking photography quite seriously I still I still wasn't full time I had I had other jobs as well and I was at university um, but it was getting to the stage where I so I was getting some pretty nice jobs. It was pretty clear that I had the. The right skills. Ah and and I guess personality to to make photography a full time thing but I wasn't quite there yet. Um, and then I meet this guy called passenger his his real name is Mike and at that time he was he was.

04:45.32
Jarrad Seng
Not so well known I mean I met him busking on the street really um and he was playing really small shows around Australia this is really early days and we met up and we really got along when he was in Perth just for for a show.

04:51.63
smacey
E.

05:02.12
Jarrad Seng
And then a few weeks later he sends me a message and says hey you want I'm I'm going all around Australia um, on this tour. Do you want to? do you want to come along and that was that was a moment for me there because um.

05:17.93
Jarrad Seng
It's easy to see see something like that pop up and say oh yeah, obviously yes, but it's not an obvious yes because you know I'm just starting to get my feet I'm getting all these clients now in in the photography world and by saying yes to this tour it would mean saying no to some of these other things.

05:22.94
smacey
Um, right? um.

05:36.50
Jarrad Seng
Were just happening for me and it was all clicking into place. Um, so there was a few things I would have to you know turn down in place of that. Yeah in place of going you know around the country on an extremely.

05:36.51
smacey
The.

05:55.72
Jarrad Seng
A low paid job nearly nothing I'll say um, it's hard to make that step because I'm like ah you know yeah that was a leap in itself to to say yes to that. But I thought about it and I said you know what? Really the the reason I.

05:58.21
smacey
Right.

06:13.62
Jarrad Seng
First got into photography was because of music I just love to be involved I love music I was playing in bands I just wanted to be around music all the time and so when I've stripped it back to that I said well okay, yes I should I should go I'll go because this is even though it's not a big glamorous. Tour our we're playing tiny little shows. We're kind of like sharing sometime sharing beds in in backpackers. Um, not glamorous at all. But I thought you know it's yeah like this, you know what? this is what no matter what it looks like this is ah this is a tour I'm going on tour.

06:41.19
smacey
Humble beginnings.

06:49.89
Jarrad Seng
That's that's pretty cool. Um, yeah, that was probably the first ah kind of big leap of faith I took in in in my career I think and obviously it worked out ten years later and I'm still I'm still touring with him. Yeah.

07:01.19
smacey
So when you're tea. Yeah, and this is obviously before that huge single right? Let her go. Um I don't want I don't want to make this about passenger. But but it's you know you've toured with him for what a better part of a decade.

07:10.60
Jarrad Seng
Um, yeah, it was just before.

07:15.98
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, and and he's one of my best friends as well. So you know it's and when you talk about traveling to other countries I mean obviously there's a lot of work I do in tourism that gets me all around the world but also a large.

07:21.80
smacey
Um, that's awesome.

07:33.76
Jarrad Seng
Number of the countries I've been to or the places I've been to have been because of passenger. We've been touring or we've been filming music videos. Um, so I owe a lot of my worldly experiences to to him and to saying and saying yes to that very first experience who would have. Who knows what it would have happened if I didn't jump on that tour. We talk about this sometimes and and we debate whether we would have met eventually and still work together and still done all these amazing things I'm not sure he reckons he reckons. Yes, he's like not surely surely.

08:02.48
smacey
This is you.

08:07.60
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

08:09.40
Jarrad Seng
I Don't know you could admit like there's lots of photographers out there. You could just met someone else cool and you never know.

08:13.29
aaronmannes
I Think that's interesting in the beginning when you're you probably have the mindset of like photography can make me money and I'm I'm doing these gigs and now here's an opportunity that takes me away from money. Um I'm curious if there's like a ah gut feeling or like.

08:21.69
Jarrad Seng
Yes.

08:32.99
aaronmannes
Almost investing in a stock where you're like I I believe in this company I believe in Passenger I believe in their their their product their their work ethic that whatever it is that I want to I want a part of it or is it more of like this is going to be a crazy opportunity like when am I going to be able to tour I'm young like let me. Let me do this. Let me do this quote. Unquote dumb move right now like let's let's let's throw the money away and let me just go take pictures of a band that's playing in these small venues and ah build my portfolio if nothing else have some experiences of nothing else, but it it could how many bands just end right? there.

08:53.87
Jarrad Seng
Um.

08:58.22
smacey
Um.

09:12.18
aaronmannes
You know.

09:13.58
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, no, you've you've kind of hit it there. Um Yeah I mean yeah when you when I first started you know taking this pathway to to pursue a creative Medium. You know you know that? Okay, um. Um, probably setting myself up to not make as much money as I would if I continued on this this other pathway. Um, so you know that and you kind of accept it and you're like. That's Fine. You know I Definitely enjoy this more and this will be a more fun fulfilling life for me if I take this direction so you're okay with it. But then it actually starts working out a little bit and you're like oh okay, maybe this is this could be ah like a proper career. Um, So then you're faced with the with the decision again.

09:53.70
aaronmannes
Are.

10:03.87
Jarrad Seng
Where you thought you kind of already made your mind up about yes I'm choosing fun over money. But then it starts creeping back in to your to your art form. Well I actually can make money with with the photography and doing what I'm doing big risk again to to jump off and and and do do something like a tour.

10:13.17
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

10:20.45
smacey
A.

10:21.89
Jarrad Seng
And that's kind of something that's ah yeah, recurring through I think every every creative's career. You know it'll always come back to that. Um, and it's up to everyone to Decide. You know at what point do you? you know, choose security over something that could. And that's that's like you said it's like an investment like this could be amazing and I did really believe in him he was. He's such ah, a brilliant musician ah obviously had no and and he and him as well like we had no idea that that he like the way that his career was going to go.

10:45.72
aaronmannes
Um, right.

11:00.43
Jarrad Seng
Um, I certainly didn't think it would get to where it is now because you just it's just rare just rare for you know on to just you know, spend 10 years bussing on the street. Um and not not make heaps of progress and then suddenly make it. Um, so yeah.

11:18.24
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, but that's like I think everyone that that perseverance and and sticking at the dream.

11:19.93
Jarrad Seng
Like yeah and I think yeah and I learn a lot of learned a lot of lessons from him and his approach to to life and and and his art like so so much I've learned from from his approach.

11:33.36
aaronmannes
I heard something some quote simple quote but just don't quit before the miracle happens you know and I feel like that can be so true like keep going. It might not seem like it's going to happen. But if you quit like you might miss out on that year ten where that song hits or something hits or someone sees you or the right thing happens. Um, yeah, just if if you believe in it keep going if you're loving it keep going and then sometimes good things happen.

12:05.94
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, and I I talk about that exact thing in in a um tedx talk I did recent earlier this year and I I didn't mean it to be such a smooth segue but you just um.

12:11.49
smacey
Yeah, let's get into that.

12:19.24
aaronmannes
No good segway with that kind of segue you should do Ted Talks I'm pretty sure. Yeah great segway.

12:21.15
smacey
Um, no, you sewayed usually segwaying is my job you're stealing my job. Ah yeah, you should be Ted talks with that kind of segway all right? We officially botched your transition now I feel better. Go.

12:23.92
Jarrad Seng
Yeah.

12:31.81
Jarrad Seng
Ah, yeah, it's going to get through right into that story but we should probably yeah after probably I mean that's what it's about so I did talk earlier this year and it is all about. Um, embracing the uncomfortable moments ah in your life but especially in your creative journey because those are the the moments that will be important. It's where you will learn something. Or find you know make that little breakthrough. It's not good that that breakthrough is not going to come when you're just when everything's great and you're sitting around and and you know being comfortable. The breakthrough comes when you're you know when I explain when I try and. Talk about this these messages I do it in the talk and just I guess in general through through the photography lands and so I'd tell these photography stories. Um and I wanted to talk about what you said which is you know you just did don't quit don't. Quit before the great thing happens and you never know when or happen and in a photography sense that happens all the time and I and I and I I think with what you do so let's saw some of your work that that must happen every day when you're out there in the in the wilderness just waiting for the shot.

13:48.42
aaronmannes
Um.

14:00.79
aaronmannes
Yeah, that's a great point.

14:02.59
Jarrad Seng
You don't know when that's going to happen and you could wait for hours and hours and and then and pack it up and be like no no, no, it's not going to happen I guess and that happens you know you just? oh no, So the lesson there is just to just to be out there and and obviously you have to you have to.

14:11.66
aaronmannes
Um, eleven.

14:19.90
Jarrad Seng
Ah, you know if things aren't happening at some point you're going to have to change change a tactic but as long as humanly possible. You know, stay on that track and stay out there and and and be ready to receive the the magic that that's going to happen and for me that happens all the time you know when? yeah, um.

14:32.37
smacey
A.

14:39.35
Jarrad Seng
When I was writing the talk I I was like I need to choose choose a story where you know I was out there waiting and then I thought I was going I thought I had to give up and then I didn't and then he happened and I just couldn't choose there were so many I was like that's like every shot I take really, it's especially out in the wilderness. It's just you know.

14:55.16
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

14:57.70
Jarrad Seng
Go wait for it. The one I tell is when I was in the um I'll make the I'll make it very short I'll skip the the juicy story. But basically I was out in the dolomites. You know in the rain for for maybe 5 hours or something just waiting. For the fog to clear up to to get this amazing shot and there were so many other photographers there. Um, everyone's waiting for the same shot. We're all kind of laughing and bonding because we're we're in Raincoats and it really does not look like this thing the peaks that we were trying to shoot. And just looked like it wasn't going to happen and we all traveled here. We all hiked here and it was just a bit silly and then one by 1 everyone leaves. Um I'm just holding out hope because I've come from Australia you know so it's like I don't going to get about that easily just you know I just waited out and waited out waited out. Sunsets. It's getting dark and I'm like okay maybe yeah, probably time to call it quits I do have to get up early tomorrow I do have to drive for hours to get to the next place. Um, but they're like Jas as um, actually you know I don't know if I told this part in the story because it didn't fit so well I didn't have enough time. But I actually did give up in this scenario I was like you know what? it's ah I just can't stay that much longer and I left and I started walking away and it was only me and this like wedding couple and their photographer that was all that was left by the stage and I was like guys good luck but I got to go I'm calling it.

16:23.72
Jarrad Seng
And so I start walking and it's so foggy and I walk for about five ten minutes in the fog I I can't see where I'm going and then I just I I just hear these voices this is after like 10 minutes and like no and what kind is walk in a loop.

16:42.97
smacey
So situation and.

16:43.48
Jarrad Seng
And back to the same spot where the other people and what a happy accident because ah at that point the the fog just starts clearing and it's just this crazy like feeling and rush and like it was like.

16:45.42
aaronmannes
Um, ah.

17:00.19
Jarrad Seng
The cameras out and i' ah by myself. So I set up a tripod on this ledge and I wanted I wanted you know I like putting humans in in big landscape votersers for Scale. So I set up the Tripod put it on time that's mode battery was flashing already and I was like I can't do anything about it. Just just go. So the camera taken a photo every few seconds and I'd sprint sprint all the way to its Ledge Peaks Reveal I've got a little lantern with me that I'd carried the whole way just in case this happened I'll just stand there and it was such amazing feeling standing there just by myself on this ledge. Um. You know, seeing something that I waited so long for and looked like it wasn't going to happen. Um, yeah, and that happens all the time as you guys would know and what I what I try and tell myself in in my head is in these situations I'm like every every step you take.

17:42.14
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

17:44.94
smacey
Yeah.

17:56.71
Jarrad Seng
Um, you know, just side note I'm super lazy and I hate hiking So I have to keep telling myself this every step I take or every every minute you longer you you stay? um, stay in the spot. Is is another point where someone else has given up and gone home or been like that's enough I'm just going to turn around um to every every little bit extra. You can hang in there. You're setting yourself apart and and potentially potentially finding something. Incredible that all these people have missed.

18:37.40
smacey
Right.

18:37.32
aaronmannes
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. We just talked about her. Maybe I I might have even did a post with wildlife and you you alluded to it. It is like whenever you get that great photo of an animal It's such a rare meeting of souls if you will like it. Like how did I hike to here at this time and that coyote was getting a drink of water at the same time and our our moments overlapped just for a few seconds and then you back to I do typically I sit in this poetry for for days where I'm like oh remember like i. Ran out of ah um, you know milk and for my son and like had to go to the store and that delayed me a half hour and then I went for my hike and if I hadn't like I do this whole backtrack of like the the domino effects of the moments and the time out there and. All the things that have to line up for this event to be captured and it's just a really cool makes it makes life feel like serendipitous. It could be just coincidence but it makes it feel like magical like wow someone was guiding me on that.

19:34.97
Jarrad Seng
I.

19:43.76
Jarrad Seng
M.

19:52.57
aaronmannes
On your hike to make that wrong turn in the fog and do that loop like so some ah higher power brought me right back to the spot.

19:56.86
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, how can it be that all these things happen to make this one moment. Yeah I Think about that all the time and I think about it in a broader sense in in kind of what we were saying before where you know there's There's so many points along anyone's journey where you have to make some choices that. Could send you in a different direction and often think about those times and think you know well I think about? Yeah yeah, like we said if I didn't go on that tour or if I didn't meet passenger that time would I be traveling the world documenting music I don't know if I go go back further you know I was originally studying law.

20:17.33
aaronmannes
Are.

20:35.77
Jarrad Seng
A law degree. Um not for very long I realized pretty quickly I didn't want to do it but I still stayed at university studied other things and I often think you know what if I just stayed at that. Um, and my perspective ah perspective on this has changed over the years because there was a period where I thought. Wow how lucky am I that I didn't you know, go this go this path and and you know become a investment financed man I don't even know what you call analys.

21:08.75
smacey
She's very.

21:10.43
Jarrad Seng
And I used to think yeah obviously I made the right choice like how how lucky but you know as I've as I've got order I've ah started reversing that not reversing it but thinking you know what probably still would have had an ah ah hopefully an amazing life. You know like it's more It's. Because I've learned that through through all these choices I had to make my careers like it always when you look back? Um, like we said you know if you didn't do this. You didn't this. This wouldn't have happened like that's true for all the good things that have happened in anyone's life. You don't if you if you. When you look back it it does I guess for me for me I'm I'm speaking about myself I look back at all this choice I had to make it always seems like the right choice I'm like how lucky I made the right choice here. How lucky I made the right choice here because if I didn't I wouldn't have met that person if I didn't do that I wouldn't have got this opportunity. Um, but that just comes from your mindset of of. Making the most of whatever comes your way and I've realized if I chose the opposite decision. Um, but still made the most of it I would have met different people or have had different opportunities. So as long as you you know you tackle life. With that mindset I think you can make you know wrong choices and because of that thinking I've looked back and now you know what could um I might have haven had a super 6 successful fulfill fulfilling life doing something else. It didn't have to be this. It just happened that that did shows this and I'm really happy with it. But.

22:30.70
aaronmannes
Um, Dan you see.

22:44.86
Jarrad Seng
It doesn't mean that that was you Anyway, you could go.

22:45.27
aaronmannes
We talk about expanding expanding the timeline like you. You just said you know like this bad moment happens or this good moment happens and it's great in the moment. But if you if you expand it and and look at it a 10 year. Ah you know fallout from something. Quote unquote bad that happened you might find just incredible beauty from that like oh I lost this opportunity but because of that here's this thing that happened so it's kind of just like you said tackling life as it comes and and making the best decisions at the time. Um following that gut. Whatever it is whatever you want to call it. But.

23:12.72
Jarrad Seng
Um.

23:21.33
aaronmannes
Um, looking at it long-term you know it. It is one of those things where it's It's kind of just interesting how it all plays out and how it could have played out potentially in an alternate universe who knows.

23:22.42
Jarrad Seng
I know.

23:29.69
Jarrad Seng
Who never know we just make the most what you got.

23:35.88
smacey
Um, I Also think that that's that's gratitude and maybe in disguise too. You know that? whatever, whatever comes my way. It's going to be awesome I think you can't help but be.

23:40.65
Jarrad Seng
Me.

23:50.52
smacey
Grateful for your circumstance. No matter what with that mindset and I think that's why I mean I mean every day longer that I'm on this earth I come to the realization more and more and more that the 1 main ingredient to a happy life regardless of where you're at is gratitude.

24:07.72
Jarrad Seng
M.

24:07.78
smacey
How can it not be do you know what? I mean like how what else is there I Really I fail to see to see how it can't be that.

24:17.55
Jarrad Seng
Um, yeah I can't remember who said this and I think it's bad because I think it's quite famous but somebody said the meaning of life is ah just enjoying the passing of time or finding enjoyment in the passing of time. Something like that and like yeah, it's pretty True. You know it just when it boils down to it is that you know time is just going to keep going things are going to happen the world's going to keep turning just just find a way to enjoy what you know the moments that you have with this.

24:35.55
smacey
Um, yeah, true.

24:48.10
smacey
Absolutely.

24:50.45
aaronmannes
It's a James Taylor song the secret of life.

24:53.39
smacey
Nice, let me ask you this then? Why do you and this is maybe be a 3 part question. Do you feel that individuals shying away from risk.

24:55.19
Jarrad Seng
That's what it is.

25:12.95
smacey
That go is so far to be almost an epidemic. Do you advocate for people you know taking calculated risks and and why do you think people you know, shy away from from tough things and the fourth part to the question. What can people kind of do to to get out of that mindset to queue in like hey this is this is a place where I don't want to be.. There's an opportunity here.

25:35.82
Jarrad Seng
Um, yeah, it's it's it's hard I mean I I definitely enjoy might have to rephrase it because I don't know if I do enjoy taking risks but I do all the time.

25:54.47
aaronmannes
Are.

25:54.68
smacey
Um, yeah, let's dig into that So you're you're actively doing something that you don't necessarily want or like to do why like? what's your purpose. What's your why? Why do you feel that that's a necessary thing for you to do when when many others are fine just staying in a box.

25:54.72
Jarrad Seng
Because there's there's.

26:03.45
Jarrad Seng
M.

26:11.87
smacey
Right.

26:12.28
Jarrad Seng
Yeah I don't know I think maybe it's just this optimism that something amazing could happen and that kind of excites me and that motivates me and that overpowers my natural instincts in in most things in my life.

26:20.10
smacey
A.

26:32.11
Jarrad Seng
Which is to stay comfortable and um I mentioned before how how lazy I am and that's that's true and that's true for a lot like I have to be dragged to a lot of things. Um, whether that is yeah in in the most simplest sense exercise and going on a hike my ah man. I don't want I don't want to feel uncomfortable. You know I don't want get sweaty and and and feel you know and feel out of breath and all these things but then I think about ah you know if but something amazing could happen if I go on that hike that could be an amazing picture. And that's ah, that's like ah ah you know, ah that's behind a lot of the motivation for taking taking risks and that can come in any form you know it could be an actual risk could be you know I don't know climbing up something I shouldn't or it could be. Um, or it could be a like take an opportunity that that has a high chance of not working out. Um, and I guess I've just trained myself in in this way over the years enough times you know taking the risk has paid off and something great has happened. So I know that that's possible and that cool things can happen if you put yourself out there so that kind of motivates me. But so.

27:51.80
smacey
So it's like developing a positive reinforcement towards the opportunities that have yeah arisen because you made a decision to do something that you didn't necessarily want to do which is very interesting.

28:09.85
Jarrad Seng
Yeah I think so I think that's definitely part of it. You know there's a lot of ah if if another decision comes up I have a lot of case studies I can look back on and say you know look at all these times you made a similar kind of ah low probability decision and it worked out.

28:17.73
smacey
Right.

28:25.10
smacey
Well this begs the question then for people who have made terrible decisions and had terrible outcomes. How do how do you suggest to those people you need to continue to put yourself in tough spots I mean have you made bad decisions I Hardly believe that every decision you've made in your life is great and has panned out.

28:27.66
Jarrad Seng
Because yeah.

28:32.55
Jarrad Seng
Um.

28:41.93
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, yeah, well like luckily for me, nothing extremely bad has happened really be as a result of anything I've done my other. Ah.

28:56.84
Jarrad Seng
Mantra I use is bad decisions make good stories. So when something bad does happen. And yeah as I said nothing major has has really gone terrible in my life in in my life. So I have that to be thankful for but when I talk about bad decisions I'm I'm talking about.

29:00.33
smacey
She.

29:01.14
aaronmannes
Um, they tell.

29:14.72
Jarrad Seng
Smashing cameras and you know going on shoots that don't work out or but that's another thing I tell myself if ah if I'm at a risk making if up to if I'm choosing risk I say you know and if it doesn't work out. It will. It will probably be a good story.. That's usually the decisions I'm making right? you know do I do this? Um, you know if it works out. It's amazing if it doesn't got a great story. Got a funny story or I'm sure I will learn something from this.

29:37.50
smacey
Um, clearing.

29:46.63
smacey
Right now.

29:50.59
Jarrad Seng
You know there is still value in decisions that that don't work out usually and that's um, if um, there's ah, there's a personal project I'm working on called the story of scars.

29:51.64
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, usually great lesson.

30:05.30
smacey
A.

30:07.50
Jarrad Seng
And that's quite confronting in in a lot of ways and what it boils down to is I'm taking portraits of people who have scars and it could be a big scar. It could be a small scar. It could be anything but it's a portrait of them showing their scar in some way. And then talking to them and learning about the story behind it because there is that's that's what fascinated me in the beginning you know I realized it about myself when I looked at all these little scars I have ah on my body I'm like you know what? there's a pretty vivid story and memory behind each one of these and it could just be that 8 that when I was ten years old and gave myself a piggyback gave my sister a piggyback and fell over that's that scar this other scar on my shoulder that's from time I went on a reality show and was stranded um on a desert island for forty days that's that one. Yeah, it was a while ago now.

31:00.32
smacey
Um, yeah, you were on survivor weren't you. That's awesome.

31:01.13
aaronmannes
Ah.

31:04.83
Jarrad Seng
But yeah, yeah I like that idea that you know no matter what it what that was at course that we all remember it so that that was how that idea started but ah like we were talking about. Um, yeah, there's There's often things that happen to us that are bad and um, how do we? where do we go from there.

31:05.60
aaronmannes
Um, wow.

31:23.52
Jarrad Seng
And this this this project is teaching me a lot a lot about that I'm meeting some really incredible people who have been it. You know some of it's you know pretty lighthearted but some of it's pretty heavy and some of the some of the subjects in in this in this project. Um, you know. They've been through some tragic things. Um, ah you know accidents or ah terrorist attacks. You know it's really it's really hard um but what is so inspiring about about all of them is is. Is the resilience and and the and and the way that they have approached their life and the way that they have tackled you know, whatever comes next after this thing and obviously it's such a difficult thing to deal with if something you know, unexpected and big happens in your life. That seems negative. Um, but almost all of them have told me that you know what when I look back and like you said when I Zoom out 10 years fifteen years if I look back I actually don't regret what happened because there are so many things I learned from it. Ah my character was just. Strengthened through through all all the stuff I had to go through and it's really inspiring like hearing that hearing that from from people. Um, so yeah, when something terrible happens it. Yeah yes, it obviously does suck but like there can be unexpected, um, things.

32:58.20
Jarrad Seng
And um, that you that you learn and that happened because because of this one moment.

33:04.90
smacey
Um, yeah, it' ah I've seen a lot of the portraits from it and it's an amazing project and you know I'm I'm sure you're goingnna what will it be your fifth or 6 exhibition. Are you going to run an exhibition for it when it's complete the project.

33:18.16
Jarrad Seng
And eventually yes, so yeah, so I'm currently you know slowly shooting more um part one was was finished maybe two years ago um that and that was it that was in partnership with canon. Um.

33:33.44
smacey
A.

33:35.78
Jarrad Seng
They they helped fund. Um, you know the filming portion of that it was a project I wanted to do for quite a while and then cann came along and said you know we can put some money behind this so that was really helpful and and that's what that's what you're looking at was that that portion of it but that was only 10 portraits and it took ah it took a lot and I traveled all around w a for these.

33:48.77
smacey
A.

33:55.77
Jarrad Seng
My idea is you know I Really want this to be a book. Um, but it's it's going to take years for me to get to that point. But I'm enjoying it I'm enjoying it as a slow journey as something a personal project that's in the background where um, you know if I ever find myself with a bit of time I'll. Ah, seek out somebody and um, we'll just slowly have this thing that I can work towards and hopefully exhibition hopefully book at the very end of it. But it's probably it's probably quite far away.

34:25.26
smacey
That's interesting for you to be able to have such a significant project on the back burner where it's always kind of in the back of your mind and I can always add to this project I feel like a lot of us. We put a project on the back burner and it goes to the graveyard. So I like that idea of being able to you know.

34:34.00
aaronmannes
Um.

34:42.40
smacey
This is a slow build. This is something that's going to potentially take me years and it speaks a lot I think I mentioned before we we started pressing record was it speaks to long-term gratification right? I mean we're we're in a world now where it's we're thinking 15 minutes down the road if our Instagram reel is going to get 100 likes in the first ten minutes right

34:45.33
Jarrad Seng
Me.

34:59.47
Jarrad Seng
And breathe.

35:00.98
smacey
And then poof it's gone I think like we're slowly losing our ability to set goals that take years a decade two decades and there's there's something to be said for that right.

35:13.80
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, and it and it definitely is hard for me as well to keep it like it took a while to even get this project off off the ground and then and the fact that it might take years so like I'm glad that I'm doing it this way. Um, and I'm glad that I have this but it is difficult. To keep it going amongst everything else that goes on so it is. It's a great kind of and you know you know what's propelling it really because like you said this is I do have there are definitely projects I have started and they have they.

35:33.82
smacey
Right.

35:47.40
Jarrad Seng
They've gone. No one has seen them because I didn't finish it. Um, but this one in particular, it's what's propelling it is is the people The people that I'm meeting um and the stories that I'm telling I'm accountable to them and they.

35:50.63
smacey
Um, yeah, like everybody else man.

36:00.63
smacey
Um, right? you feel accountable to them.

36:07.40
Jarrad Seng
And they're so inspiring and they are important stories I think for people to hear So that's what keeps me going with this where other projects are kind of new. There is purpose behind it and there there is impact and from what people have seen of the first part of it I know.

36:13.86
smacey
So there's a map is massive amount of purpose behind it.

36:25.45
Jarrad Seng
That people are finding and people are relating to the stories that I told and finding inspiration in it. Lots of my feedback has has been ah people telling me, you know what? that's that's the first time i've.

36:31.20
aaronmannes
Are.

36:42.27
Jarrad Seng
Both from people that have viewed this work but also the people in it. Also the subjects some of them have told me you know that's really the first time I've ever you know told this story properly of what happened to me because it is something quite uncomfortable and is something that you know people don't.

36:45.67
smacey
E.

36:54.30
smacey
Wow! yeah.

36:58.80
aaronmannes
Um, f.

37:00.38
Jarrad Seng
You know you might think people don't really want to hear this this was like actually a really tragic and uncomfortable part of my life and and I guess there's ah ah maybe a metaphor in there too. You know scars are something that people often hired you know scars are something that you tend to.

37:05.83
smacey
Right.

37:19.00
Jarrad Seng
Cover up or you think you know that's something that you know I'm just going to keep to myself. You know that people don't need to see that Um, but by bringing all these stories to the light. It's it's I think it is healing for a lot of people and and it like I said it is inspiring and so that's why you know I'm like this is an important project. And I can't say that for everything I do a lot of what I do isn't really that important. Um, you know a lot of what I do is just work. Um I tried to I tried ah would I try.

37:41.95
smacey
Fair enough.

37:54.79
Jarrad Seng
Ah, when I choose the work I do or or how I spend my time as much as I can I want I tried want it to be fun I Want it to have some meaning I want it to be valuable and useful to people and it and it is but when I think about I guess this happens. Ah as as we get older. Um I think About. You know at the end of all this.. What do I want there to be left of of my work. What's the legacy. You know what? what do I leave behind and I think if we're not careful and we don't pursue these passion projects and things that we really feel a calling to.. There's There's a risk that you know at the end of it all someone says well he took a lot of good pictures of Passenger I guess he took took it. He he helped me a lot. He helped all these he took a lot of good photos for these businesses and and promoted tourism and you blah blah you know.

38:37.77
aaronmannes
Are.

38:39.79
smacey
Um, right.

38:49.93
Jarrad Seng
That's cool and I love that. That's my life doing all these things and and providing value to other people in that way. But I Really I'm realizing that there needs to be something more to it as Well. There needs to be a ah lasting impact that that. My work leaves behind if it really is what I'm supposed to be doing and what I'm going to spend my life doing um you know it it I should aim for something more. You know it doesn't just have to be work. It. It should be something more. So.

39:22.51
smacey
Right? So you're operating in the the self actualization realm of the pyramid. You know that's in them Assles hierarchy needs. Yeah for real though.

39:25.50
aaronmannes
Yeah, what's very.

39:32.70
Jarrad Seng
I suppose that? yeah yeah, suppose like yeah I mean at the beginning you really are just doing whatever you can to to survive and make it work.

39:42.23
smacey
I Mean you're exploring your social potential right? that lasts beyond you I mean if that's not self-actualization I don't know what else is and that's ah, that's where I feel like life gets really complex. You know like what more can I give what more can I Give what do I want to leave.

39:53.74
aaronmannes
Um, that's.

39:55.12
Jarrad Seng
Um, and and.

39:58.72
smacey
I mean and I think we're all striving to get to that place. It's an important place to try and to try and get to you know once we have the other foundations of our life set. Yeah.

40:06.66
Jarrad Seng
M.

40:08.58
aaronmannes
Yeah, we talk about art art needs to be real. You know like like marketing and and doing things for businesses and companies. There's ah, there's a there's a level of I'm just going to make this look as good as I can and and try to show an interesting story. But. Wasn't no no offense I'm just saying I wasn't really needing a lantern. It makes a cool photo right? like but so there's art in that sense. But there's art in the sense of vulnerability and truth and the project that you're doing is.

40:36.60
Jarrad Seng
And.

40:41.92
aaronmannes
Incredibly vulnerable for people and I think people relate to that because it's human and like oh you know I have my scar and I want to listen to this I Want to hear this maybe I should share my story and not try to hide it look at all these brave people and whatever it may be um and very cathartic for them to be able to.

40:42.20
Jarrad Seng
And.

40:51.10
Jarrad Seng
It.

41:00.31
aaronmannes
Like you said share that story um, be open with it Vulnerable truthful and kind of let that let that pain go let that healing start. So I think that's where it becomes meaningful versus trying to create a pretty a pretty picture for someone.

41:17.99
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's exactly it. Um, yeah, and it and it feels. It feels like something that that matters and that I am doing for the impact it will have on other people.

41:34.31
Jarrad Seng
And I suppose I can't say that about a lot of things I do I suppose you know a lot of things. It's for commercial value or you know this this job will be really cool for me this will this will this one this one will boost my profile. You know, a lot of it and you know it kind of has to be for for you know the life of a prelancer. You do have to be focused on yourself quite a lot So this project in a way is me saying you know you what this one this one really isn't for me that much.

41:54.35
smacey
For sure.

41:56.15
aaronmannes
Um, yeah, um.

42:08.10
Jarrad Seng
I Mean it's great. It's it's still a really cool project for me and I love meeting all these people and hopefully it does get seen by a lot of people. But really, it's ah you know it's it's it's bigger.

42:19.37
aaronmannes
What makes this a long-term project versus something you want to get done in a year um is it the unfolding of meeting people is it naturally like you're letting that happen or are you seeking people out like what's the choice in saying. This is going to be a while a decade um versus I want to get this done as fast as I can for lack of a better phrase.

42:42.42
Jarrad Seng
Yeah I think it's it's ah it's a mix of everything really it is like you said the natural meeting of people. You know the the best you know my favorite you know encounters from the first part of this project were you know they they just unfolded. You know it was. It's me talking me talking to people. Talking to all my friends about this project talking to everyone I meet about this scars project and then maybe a month later someone will get back to me and say you know what i' was thinking about what you said and I've got ah got this person I met in this city and he's got a pretty interesting story so it kind of happens out wayh. It's not something I think where you know. Instantly. You will find everyone you need for this project. So I think having space for it to breathe and for it to like slowly grow and people find out about it in natural ways. That's the other thing I ah found that yes I can do callouts and people can volunteer to be part of this project but often.

43:22.90
aaronmannes
Um, rank.

43:38.11
Jarrad Seng
The the most impactless stories and people that I've met through this. They haven't been most of them haven't been people that volunteered and it's been someone who's maybe you know has never thought of sharing their story and so on and and their mate has has prompted them or or let me know about them and saying you know you should.

43:48.23
aaronmannes
Um.

43:57.27
Jarrad Seng
Talk to this person they might consider it and I think you know I guess that comes back to you know, kind of just revealing these stories and where where they weren't there before so that's part of it. Another part of it is just time. It is hard to um, dedicate a large amount of time at once. To a passion project which you know is costing costing me, you know, quite a bit of money to to do and to film and to you know and when you have that in front of you and and then you also have like amazing job offers on the other side. There's a balance to be had you know obviously I can I can set a aside time here and there but it's quite hard to say you know this entire you know for six months I'm only going to work on I'm just going to just gonna hemorrhage money. It's pretty hard to do that. Um, yeah, at once. Hopefully you know maybe maybe.

44:47.88
aaronmannes
Are.

44:54.33
Jarrad Seng
Give it give it some time. Give it a few more years and maybe that is possible at the moment. It's you know I do have to keep working I can't just stop but we're getting closer and closer to that like this ah this ah this is um, it's becoming more and more possible. Um, you know.

45:01.88
aaronmannes
Yeah, makes sense.

45:01.95
smacey
Um, calculated risk. Um, ah.

45:12.61
Jarrad Seng
To to finish this. So um, yeah, hopefully next time we talk will be will be much closer.

45:17.81
smacey
Excellent, yeah yeah, you've mentioned the word feedback in this you know you see me so let me rephrase that you mentioned feedback. Um, you're seeking feedback with this. This project. Also when your your caption with the Ted talk that you pinned your last photo in that carousel was notes from people right offering feedback which I which I thought was really cool for you to include as as part of that carousel and it really adds to the the story of you coming to do your your presentation. Yeah, we and we talk about feedback a lot and seeking feedback a while on this podcast and you know who to listen to who not to listen to and asking good quality questions of of the people you're seeking feedback from what sort of your protocol. Um, when you're when you're looking for advice or or for opinions. Um, from those around you what to. Who are you going to what kind of questions are you asking and um, what do you digest and what do you say? Nih like in my way better. You know what's sort of your your mentality around the whole concept of of seeking feedback.

46:15.59
Jarrad Seng
Oh.

46:28.25
Jarrad Seng
Yeah I mean in general I love I love feedback I like hearing opinions from from wide range of people if we talk about the Ted talk example. Um.

46:39.30
smacey
This.

46:42.82
Jarrad Seng
Ah, kind of just I picked out you know, 5 of my close friends I said listen to this and I did the talk for them. Um, for most of them I did I kind of read out my talk to them over Zoom or something and um and you know, really different people like photographer lawyer writer.

47:02.51
Jarrad Seng
Um, Lifestyle Coach you know, just just tell me you move because I want to know um and I think it's really important to and all of them had really good feedback and and coming from different perspectives so that was that was really good and I think you can never get you know enough. Good feedback. Um. From people and obviously people that whose opinion that you will actually take an account and I didn't take it all on Board. You know so I'm like yeah but I think the role of good feedback is that it just highlights something to you to think about and a lot of it was I someone might might have said you know think about this line could you have done this differently Am I.

47:28.89
smacey
Right.

47:41.13
Jarrad Seng
Yeah I have yeah thanks for bringing that up I'll think about it now and then you know, spend some time and then comes to inclusion. No I like ah like it the way I've done thanks for bringing that up though. Um, but yeah, it's the only way you know you'll get better. Well, it's not the only way but it's a big part of it's a big part of how.

47:50.71
smacey
Um, bright.

47:58.96
Jarrad Seng
You can only see you know your perspective is just just just just one um and it depends on what it is of course um and it might be something that you don't want anyone else's opinion on that you just want to to do what you want to do. But for the most part I really enjoy receiving feedback and also giving feedback. Um, and I think it also tells a lot about somebody in how they receive feedback too I work with a lot of agraphers and and second shooters or I might hire people for for some jobs I can't make it to um.

48:25.42
smacey
Um, for sure.

48:36.26
Jarrad Seng
And work a lot with kind of younger photographers too and and there's always a moment where um where I'm writing some notes for them because maybe there's a few things that that could be improved and you know when I send that email and I always check you know? are you happy to get some feedback. Everyone says? Yeah, yeah, um. But when I when I send an email or call or text or whatever it is I'm like this could go either way you know this could um you know being you know it's ah it's a point where someone could take could be defensive and say you know that's yeah.

48:58.52
smacey
Healthy Either way beating.

49:14.73
Jarrad Seng
You know and and say and and get get get offended and maybe me pointing something out that like a suggestion does that and I guess pride and and ego comes into that that that could be a reaction. Um it. It possibly could um you know make someone feel a bit down or like oh I thought I did. Really good and and now you're pointing out things that um, that aren't that aren't so Good. You know and could you know it can. It can be a bit of a down of some people but then the best the best way that you know I see people receive it is they they say they say Thank you and I say. That's really cool I didn't actually even think about those things and now I am so now I'll know and and I think that's the you know that's just how you should be receiving all your feedback.

49:59.99
smacey
Right? Well I mean that demonstrates that you're open to Suggestion. You're open to different Perspectives. You're open to improving and you're open to youre you know you're humble enough to and you have humility enough of that to to say my way isn't necessarily the only way or the best way. Regardless of you know what?? what? this. The suggestion is I think saying thank you is such a powerful 2 wo-word phrase right for anything for real.

50:26.49
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, and when if someone says that to me if if like I might have been like quite harsh on what I'm saying in a polite way but like you know you really need changes and that's when I get worried about it. But when they say Thanks! Thanks for that. You just know you know that's someone I want to work with because. We we can collaborate we can anything that comes Out. We can Fix. You know that's that's and that's how ah how I hope to appear to people as well. I want people to know that you know we can collaborate we can. We can problem Solve. We can do we can adjust we can pivot we can do anything. We just need to have the communication there. And and we'll get there. We'll we'll be able to achieve whatever we want if we have this mindset.

51:07.65
aaronmannes
Yeah, that was my ah that was my follow-up. Question. This is you giving feedback, but you're working with you know, Passenger or other clients. Um, and you're you're pretty much a rockstar at this point too in the photography World. So How much of it balance is like. All right you you came to me this is going to be my vision. Um I I don't want to so I don't want to put my name and my art in a certain way. That's not what I believe in versus they're the client it it is their. Let's say music in this case, it's their music. Um.

51:39.50
Jarrad Seng
Oh.

51:42.94
aaronmannes
They want to represent it with a music video or photography they haven't they have a vision I have to kind of bow to them. What's that balance for you there.

51:53.26
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, um, you know it obviously changes depending on who I'm working with um, ah you know we're talking corporate client I'm much more I lean more towards. You know there is a reason you hired me for this. Um I'm always open to discuss and to collaborate. You know that's fine. But if it really comes to a head I'm like you know this is this is ah you did hire me for this.. Hopefully you hidere me because you trust my vision and and if you don't potentially. And this isn't doesn't have to be bad thing. Potentially you might work better with this other person I don't mind saying that that's Fine. You know I think just communication is great and on the other end when if you talk about musicians a passenger that swings the other way for me now where I obviously have my own vision and ideas. But it's also their their art form. So um, I'll be like you know when it comes down to it I Just want to help people you know achieve what? what? they? what they want and what they want out of it. So if if I mean it's It's probably happened a lot of times too for for various reasons where a musician I'm working with just has a. Has a different idea or a different approach to something and I'll be like it's It's your it's your thing you know you've brought me to help you with your thing I'll do as much I can to guide in the way I think when it comes down to it. You know it's It's your thing sal do your way and I'd feel the same way if if if I was working maybe with a film makeup.

53:10.99
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

53:25.79
Jarrad Seng
Filming my project or like working with me on scars project I would expect them to you know I would have chosen them because of the ah their style and their work and hopefully we're just align. But if it if it doesn't you know I would expect them to be like well you know it is your project.

53:43.30
aaronmannes
Right.

53:45.22
Jarrad Seng
So we'll we'll kind of we'll kind of work that way. Um, so I think it just depends. You know what? what the project is and and who you're with and yeah, yeah.

53:47.66
aaronmannes
Like and that makes sense. We talked about it.

53:55.58
aaronmannes
Yeah, we talked about art colliding with art the other day versus like a business mind colliding with art like the business mind wants the artist. Yeah, so there there is a there is a difference but 2 artists coming together then there has to be more of a dance.

53:58.91
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, right? Yeah, it's different. It's very different. Yeah.

54:09.52
Jarrad Seng
Yes, yes because I suppose if it's business and art. It's a much clearer distinction of you chose me for the art bit whereas if it's creative and creative is that Well we both have our own ideas here and they're both pretty valid. So.

54:20.45
aaronmannes
Um, yes, yeah.

54:29.50
Jarrad Seng
Ah, but you know yeah I'm pretty I Like to think I'm pretty pretty easy to work with across across the board and um, you know I do pride myself on when I'm in a court like more of a business corporate sense or jobs that are more you know business minded like I.

54:29.24
aaronmannes
Um.

54:48.25
Jarrad Seng
I Think why people hire me is because they know I'll just I'll just get in there and get the job done. Whatever whatever problems come up. Whatever happens you know we'll find a solution that everyone's happy with it's pretty rare that I'll have any major.

54:56.40
aaronmannes
Um.

55:04.98
Jarrad Seng
Disagreements with with people on on any project really.

55:08.85
smacey
Excellent, well with this episode so far I think we're going to wrap up pretty soon. But I want to hear you know in your in your journey. Maybe what's the the biggest takeaway or or life lessons so far and I'm sure this will mold and shape as your career continues. But. You know if there's anyone let's say just starting out or young listening or not even young, just just starting out what piece of advice would you give maybe that encapsulates our entire discussion today.

55:37.72
Jarrad Seng
Oh encapsulates the entire discussion I don't know me I like I would say you know seek discomfort I feel like we've talked about that a lot though. But I do think you know.

55:43.56
smacey
I'm asking the hard questions.

55:49.17
smacey
No, that's fair, maybe just hammer home your point then.

55:55.77
Jarrad Seng
Ah, well well frame it in this way because I guess I've hinted it before but I I that's I think I think it's okay to be okay I have a lot of friends and I know a lot of people that are really inspiring ah and they just. Get a natural adrenaline of you know going for it. You know doing the hike doing the uncomfortable thing pushing themselves. That's their natural state of being that's where they love life. Um, you know, get up in the morning early. Yeah, just embrace everything and I think. And and you see a lot of this you know I guess on Instagram or like life coachy things and while that's great if you are that way it can be I think it can be a bit alienating for people who aren't naturally like that if you look at somebody they just you know, just. Feels like they're just so naturally just able to just embrace everything because that's not everyone and that's not really me, um, it maybe is now because I've trained myself to to be that way. But naturally you know I shy away from things I get I get you know I I'm shy. You know I'm pretty introverted. Um I I get really scared about being embarrassed. That's probably the the main thing that stops me doing anything is if um, this could be embarrassing for me I think now I might stuff this up and that's gonna be humiliating and that.

57:26.50
smacey
Um, and right.

57:31.26
Jarrad Seng
Naturally, that's my reaction to a lot of things I'm like no no, no, no, don't need to put myself out there. You know I'm pretty I'm pretty good here that you know we don't need to. We don't need to fall out of line. Um, so for me, it's not natural but you know finding something like photography.

57:41.86
smacey
Um, right.

57:51.23
Jarrad Seng
And it could be any art film. It could be music. It doesn't have to be art form. It could be anything that you just want to pursue like if you if you find something out there in your life and I think everyone you know does eventually hopefully if you you find something that that you're passionate about um that you really want to pursue. Think that hold onto that you know and hold onto that for the ride because you can use that to to to bring all these to face all these fears that you have and all these things you want to overcome and if it wasn't for photograph photography and of it wasn't for a camera in my hand I I would have not done. Most good things that have happened in my life would not have happened I wouldn't I wouldn't be hiking mountains I wouldn't be traveling the world I wouldn't go up and talk to strangers on the street. You know I wouldn't do any of that I would stay at home on the couch watching watching Tv you know that that is probably my natural state of being. Um.

58:44.75
smacey
Um, right.

58:47.84
Jarrad Seng
So I think it's okay, you know it's okay to to be the person that that doesn't hike the mountain for for the sake of it. It's okay to be like me and say I'm going to hike them out and because there might be a cool photo at the top I think that's cool I think I think you know that information is cool and it's amazing If you can find something that makes you do that.

59:00.95
smacey
Right.

59:07.29
Jarrad Seng
Um, and that's like when we in Passenger travel the World. We're both cuts pretty Similar. We get a bit grumpy about all the things we have to do. But once we've filmed something once we've got to you know the top of this mountain or we've we've you know driven for hours to get to this location Once we've done it and we. There's moments where we look at each other and we say you know how how how special is it that in pursuit of you know the art we've ended up accidentally with all these life experiences that would not have Happened. We would never have done that. Yeah we would stay in the hotel room if we didn't have to film this video. We'd be in the hotel room right now.

59:33.26
smacey
Ahead.

59:44.38
Jarrad Seng
But instead we're out in this amazing location experiencing the world. Um I think that's special and I think yeah so I I guess what? Ah I'm saying is that if you if you if you found your thing and I guess if you really see this podcast photography is your thing hopefully and you know use that.

01:00:00.98
smacey
Um.

01:00:02.89
Jarrad Seng
It's It's not just about taking photos clicking the shutter. That's that's all cool, but what it's what it really can do for you is open your life up to all these things that maybe you are uncomfortable about before but now you have a vehicle to go and go and do it.

01:00:16.64
smacey
That was beautifully said my man really appreciate it and appreciate your time today. You're joining us in the next day early in the morning from australia very much appreciate your time and I know it's been a long time coming finally getting you on the show which I'm excited about so.

01:00:18.35
aaronmannes
Yes.

01:00:27.81
Jarrad Seng
Thanks so much. You. Awesome.

01:00:34.56
smacey
Ah, again, just thanks so much And for all your insight and for that that awesome epilogue for lack of a better turn. No, it was great. That was awesome.

01:00:34.84
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:00:45.38
aaronmannes
from the future he's from tomorrow morning that was great. Yeah, ah.

01:00:46.65
Jarrad Seng
Probably be long windded. But um, you know hopefully the message is in there is in there somewhere.

01:00:52.72
smacey
Yeah, no, and we'll put links to Jared's stuff in the episode description as always where you can check out a lot of the projects. He's got going on. Um, do you have like a link treat. What's the best links to put in. Do you have a link tree or your website is that best put in there.

01:01:06.42
Jarrad Seng
Yeah, yeah, anything make tree I suppose in Instagram and website is is really the only yeah only things and you can find anything from there. Yeah.

01:01:12.41
smacey
Excellent, well people will dig and they'll find other cool stuff. Yeah, they'll find all the cool stuff you're up to and they'll see that you were own survivor. We didn't talk about that today because I'm sure that would have been another hour long but for our reality Tv people you guess you can go dig in there.

01:01:22.74
Jarrad Seng
Yeah.

01:01:23.46
aaronmannes
Um, yeah.

01:01:29.30
smacey
Right? guys. Thanks for both your time till next time.

01:01:31.20
aaronmannes
Take care.

01:01:31.17
Jarrad Seng
See you later.