I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecana Show. I am here with Ernst and Rob. How are you, gentlemen, Joan, I'm good, Thanks new doing good?
Rob?
Oh, pretty grand, Pretty grand.
I'm going to give each of you, gentlemen individually a chance to just give a quick introduction to your tell a little bit about yourself. Ernest, why don't you go first?
Well, Well, the short version of it is, I work for AFRI Forum, the largest of all rights organization in the Southern Hemisphere. I'm a campaign's office for strategy and content there. But that's my occupation and my job. But then also part of my hobby that's also connected to my job is my YouTube channel and my Twitter account where I comment on all things from regarding culture politics
here at the southern tip of Africa specifically. Well, I started off when I created my channel by commenting a lot more on things abroad, politics in America and Europe. But then I just started focusing a lot more on South Africa and Africa, seeing as there are millions of people much better and stronger and smarter than me, stronger in their thoughts when it comes to an analysis on America and Europe and whatever they can focus on that.
I'm going to focus on Africa and South Africa that I know, the part of the world that I experienced, the part of the world that I can do a BS test firsthand if something is true or not, just maybe a final thought there when it comes to that
idea of being on the ground. It's the strangest thing when you hear other pundits or other commentators discuss the country that you live in but people abroad, and you just realize they're just talking the most absolute, just nonsense, like whatever they're saying is just absolutely, verifiably not true, and their audience is just eating it up. And You're sitting there in the audience thinking like, this guy is talking about what I know personally, and they're just talking
the biggest amount of just absolute nonsense and rubbish. But and that's what I try to avoid. That's why I made a conscious decision to do less analysis on US and European politics and to stick to what I know, because I see those commentators in America and in Europe talk about South Africa and they just completely missing the target. And then I think to myself, what if that is me when I'm talking about America about a European politics.
What if that's exactly what I'm doing. Americans are sitting there listening to the South African talk about their country and they're just like, this guy doesn't.
Get it at all.
He's just completely drank the kool aid and the propaganda out there. So that's why that's the purpose of my commentary is to talk about what I know best and what I know personally.
That makes a lot of sense, Rob.
Yeah, Well, I've also done some work for the same organization after form. Although I'm I'm a freelance consultant, I'm working for a couple of other I'm working for a couple of other people at the moment, but I can't really talk about them right now. And my but my big thing that I spend sort of a lot of my free time doing is is trying to assist the Cape Independence movement in various ways. And there some big
moves coming up in apergot that should be fun. I mean, of course, it's it's not something that has a guaranteed shot it you know, it's not guaranteed success. But the way I see it is it's necessary because it's the only bit of the country that really can be saved from, you know, total collapse. Really, I mean if the Cape guys always got left is Africana enclaves critism and.
It's like, yeah, it's it's it's not the most ideal situation because then you know, you isolated tiny pockets of resented minorities and it's an ocean of hostiles.
It's not it's not my idea of a party.
We'll talk more about that. Why don't why don't we find out how you know, the history? How did your families get to South Africa?
Mm hmm.
The peak.
You're gonna have to indicate who you want to start, all right, Ernest you start because I know that I know you can be a little more brief than rob.
Let's.
Yeah, let's go for a well on the question of what where my family comes from and now they ended up at the southern tip of Africa. There's a lot to unpack there, but I'll keep it brief because there's a lot to talk about in the broader picture. So, yeah, I'm the descendant of a mish mash of just West Europeans. So my ancestors are Germans, Dutch, French, Higuenots, Belgians, and Scots, and that's what we know about, and a lot of
them have very interesting histories. The Dutch the typical people coming to South Africa for mostly fortune seekers or for a job or for a new start somewhere. French Huguenots, of course, are fleeing religious persecutions. So they're not coming to South Africa to make money or to create a new life, or to escape just the monotony of their existence. They're coming to South Africa. They're fleeing for their lives,
so they're coming to South Africa. And that's actually first, my first ancestor chronologically came here in sixteen eighty eight, and he was a French Huguenot. His name was Paul Rue and he came here in sixteen eighty eight. But then also my surname van Zel that that ancestor came I think a little bit later in sixteen forty sixteen ninety four and he was Vilim Fansel. And then yeah, in the meantime since then, also a lot of other influences, a lot of Germans, a lot of other French Huguenots.
But yeah, that's the story. The story of my family lineage is the story of the Afrikaners. I think most of the European ethnicities that form that melded together to form the Afrikaners are in my lineage and are in the majority of Afrikaners lineage. And it's and that's the thing. The big misconception that a lot of people abroad make is they think, oh, the English speaking whites and South Africa are the descendants of the Brits, and the Afrikaans
speaking whites are the descendants of the Dutch. That's that's not true. The Afrikaners are the descendants are mainly the descendants of the Dutch, French and Germans. Those three groups we take one of them art it's a major piece of the puzzle that you're missing. So those three groups are the main ingredients in making the Africana specifically, and those are all in my lineage as well. Just a
funny story to end off with. I mentioned this in my I Am seventeen seventy six piece that I wrote recently,
A Time to do Trenches. My Scottish ancestor was on his way to New Zealand and then he kicked the captain's dog on the way there and he got thrown off in South Africa and that's h and then he I mean, this isn't a time where he doesn't he can't just wait until the next morning when the next boat arrives, like he's stuck here now, like his fate is not tied to the African continent for quite a while. And yeah, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't exist, crazy, right, Oh.
Yeah, I mean some of the stuff. I mean, there's a funny per since there so Paul Rue, I don't know what the state of the farm is not. I haven't been to back to visit it since I've moved back to my hometown. But I used to play and go to Sunday School with Actually no, he never came to Sunday School. I suppose with him because my friend as Farmer's neighboring is. But there's a kid called Paul Rue who who's a directorcendant of that Paul Roue. So
I've met one of your relatives indirectly. But yeah, sort of. My ancestors are also French Huguenots. My Irish surname comes from.
A sort of.
You know, well, Irish people who went to went to serve the colonial administration in India, and so one of my ancestors is born in Pakistan, but that one of the family married into Danish and Swedish and then and then on my other side a bunch of you know, Scots and English and Irish people, funnily enough, no Welsh, but yeah, and then you know, like all whiteside Africans, you know, Adamson I will both share a tiny drop of cooisand blood because being around for that long, you know,
the first settlers, for the first fifty years, there were no European women to speak over really, and so they made free with.
For a long time, not just for the first year or so.
Yeah, for the first I think it's not. For the first fifty there were very few. And then after that you've got some you got some French women in there,
but yeah, that is a fair amount of times. So everyone's got like about I think I think the average is like, you know, four to six percent of lated, some more, some less, but generally speaking around there and yeah, I mean like, but my family a few generations ago, they were supported smarts, the Party were and for like fusion between English and Africans communities, they raised their children
speaking English. So my family is sort of like a modeled mixture of English and Africans spilingualism, and yeah, tied to Thevinelands.
Yeah.
No, I think both of us are because of our deep connections and sort of family's obsession of genealogy. You know, we've got a very deep rooted sense of our history in place here, you know, where the skeletons are buried, and the ability for you know, the rest of society to shock us with our ancestors, you know, crimes is somewhat diminished, so.
You can't really be shamed. You you can't really be shamed for your ancestors conduct if you have a very deep and intimate knowledge of your ancestors conduct.
That's true, that's true.
I mean it's just avoid your Your opponents can fill that void with anything they want.
Yeah, it made me makes me think of what could your enthusiasm. Larry David there was a while ago he had a he had a thing where he he went on one of those who do you think you are genealogy programs and you find out the ancestors or like you know, like a slave driving certain plantation, and and I I didn't think much of that at the time, but I've noticed now apparently he's a huge fan of the Confederate sort of army, sort of historical societies and stuff.
So I don't know. I think it's kind of impossible to escape one's ancestry, you know, when you realize you know where you fit into it, even if you can distance yourself more really from certain things, it's like, well, this is part of.
Who you are.
You're not gonna you're not gonna chuck it for you know, for nothing.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
So yeah, and we get that in the South here too. I've I was Arns before we started that. In the South here, they're Southerners are very very aware of their families, and they are for the most part not ashamed.
Do they understand that, you know? I mean, I know my own through my dad.
At some point we were slaves, and at some point we owned slaves. So it's like, all right, well, best of both worlds. But I guess the reason I'm here, the reason I asked you guys to be here, is because South Africa has been in the news a lot
in the last couple of years. And I think that most Americans, what they know about South Africa is comes from Hollywood and comes from the newspapers, and these these are pure, These are the propaganda arms of you know, global Homo now and I want to hear the story.
I want to know.
Everybody talked about, Oh, apartheid was so terrible, and you know, we talked a little bit before we started recording about the history of a little bit about the history and how did we get to this point? I mean, how did we get to the point where I was watching videos last year of white and black act men in South Africa standing side by side shooting rifles at rioters and looters and people murdering people.
H this is kind of your question, kind of is a slam dunk for rob seeing as is Forte is the different dispense political dispensations of South Africa, which is literally the answer to the question how did we get here? So I think I'll give the floor over to him for for introduction there.
Yeah, I mean it's basically the the country is. It's not a real country, it's it's it's a it's a resource extraction zone. And I mean the Cape has a sort of nebulous identity. It's always been like if you read sort of historical books about the Cape. So everyone has an idea that like there's something here, but we can't quite put our finger on it. But definitely South Africans have nothing in common. There's there's nothing in common except for the sort of power structure that holds us together.
And there's always been the case, and the country was deliberately denied any kind of federal devolution of power from the very first, explicitly to contain any any attempts by people to break away. I mean, the reason that the Union Constitution was instituted in nineteen ten was because the trance of all decided didn't want to be part of the customs. So they have like this big, big convention behind closed doors and say, listen, guys, we're not doing
this warshit again. You're a going to sit down and we're not going to have devolution of powers. You're going to get with the program. We're going to have somewhere. We're going to have a cultural fusion of English and Africana, and we're going to protect every one nation. That didn't even work. And the only point at which you got anything approaching white unity was under for food when you got all for the first time, the English speaking population
shifted over to vote for the Nationalist Party. But the real thing is that you have a sort of idea of the first chunk of just just shy fifty years of the country is about trying to build this common identity between English and Afrikaans people under the under the
British Empire. And it starts coming apart in the thirties and by nineteen forty eight it's you know, everyone sort of decided, no, we don't really want you know, the Africaners are going to be the bell leader for the future and this is going to be an Afrikaans nation. And by sixty one we become a republic. You know, it's full speed ahead for Africanization of everything and an attempt to contain some of the forces that were led list because the big driver this is the gold mines.
This is the reason that Nathan Rostrald got together with Bite Roads and Milne to unify the The whole point is mineral extraction. The problem also is that all the goldfields are far inland. I mean three times the size of Germany, remember, way larger than Texas. But you know, the mines are so far from the ports, so that you have to like unify all these different territories in
order to give them sort of stable access. So you know, Als mentioned the riots, and the reason that those riots were so effective and so threatening was because they targeted the corridor, the main economic corridor between Johannesburg and Praetoria and all those mining hubs and derban.
Yeah, they were a metaphorical knife over over an artery, like a main artery precisely.
And I mean the thing is, you know, while African do you have in the meantime the black societies form a sort of mirror image of what's happening in the white societies, where they're starting to for purely pragmatic political power reasons, consolidating around a homogeneous black identity under the ANC from nineteen twelve. And I mean this is not reflected on the ground amongst most black South Africans and you know, or even a plurality of them until very recently.
But I mean you did get some writing about the emergence of this sort of deracillated black identity. I mean Jordan Gubane, a Zulu political commentator, called them the new Africans. And I think you wrote something in nineteen seventy nine called a conflict of minds, and I recommend anyone to go read that. I mean, it's it's really a fantastic
piece of insight. But I won't explain everything you said here, but it's the issue is that in order to challenge the white power structure, they had to consolidate and form like a single block. And the process they build this ideology based on you know, economic distribution and race nationalism
and race consciousness. I mean, the idea is that they got from w eb d Boys and Marcus Garvian or whatever it was, like secondhand German race nationalist ideas really and then they combine them with bits of bits of Soviet economics. The ideology the ANC can really be something up as you know, black race consciousness plus Leninism, and the Leninist
element is the two stage national democratic revolution. So the first revolution is the nationalist revolution, whereby you gain control the levels of power in society, in the in the economy, and the second phase is where you use those to transsform society into a socialist economy, except that with the
race element it's transformed into a black socialist economy. And from the nineteen seventies already they were looking for inspiration from Indonesia with their expulsion of the Dutch and the Chinese, and from Zanziboi in their massacre of the of the Arabs. And it was even something called Operation j which failed in the most farcical way possible. But the original intention was to instigate as Zanzibar style genocidal massacre in South Africa.
They didn't even manage to get the boat with the troops out of Somalia because they didn't maintain the engine, so so that was completely abortive. But I mean, look at the nc has as been a fairly nasty organization and most of their political culture was really consolidated. In the nineteen eighties they took this is this military doctrine that they took from the Vietnamese called a People's War.
They were paid to go over there in nineteen seventy nine by the Soviet Union and they studied with Vogwark of allmans Yupp, who is the you know general who you know completed the warrans just to stop you the robber.
Just a great resource on the People's Wall if you on this book by Anthea Jfree called People's war then a new light on the struggle for South Africa. It covers the entire concept. It is like a magnum opus on that concept.
Absolutely, and I mean this this sort of explains the riots that we had last year. So that was big headline news. And I mean, like I was contacted by I'm certain in seventy six rival little something for them last year about it as well. So the issue is that the the structure of the NCADA took on this idea that so everyone, man, women and child are all combatants. There's no such thing as being like not on a side or not a legitimate target. I mean, Nelson Mandela
had his had his principles. He sort of said, well, no, no human targets or just doing sabotage here. But of course on his way into jail he said, you know, I'm not going to rule out guerrilla warfare and terrorism.
I mean, you know, if it's necessary, it's and that's what the people who followed him later did when they finally managed to get some funds and some training, and so the nineteen eighties, you see if you go on to if you go on to Wikipedia and you look up a crime in South Africa there's a big fat graph over there for the homicides over the over one hundred years from nineteen fifteen to twenty fifteen, and there's a gentle incredase that followers urbanization and population growth, and
there's a massive spike from seventeen nineteen to ninety three that then starts declining, and that spike is the people's Now the official statistics for debts areund about twenty thousand, but if you look at the area under that that spike in the graph, the numbers are way higher. They're way higher. And it's you know, death by sort of torture, mobbing, burning down entire townships, just absolutely insane augi of violence.
And you know, none of this is reported on because all of the journalists were around the world very dutifully remembered that, well, if we still want our sources to talk to us, we can't say anything they don't like. So they would they would actively lie in order to maintain contact and keep being able to write pieces on the ground. And they they freely admitted this to Anthea Jeffrey, which is why of her book is such a fantastic resource.
But I mean, this is the structure means that when when when they did the riots last year, the the contoy season, which the military ring of the a n C, they had decided that they were going to back Jacob Zumer as the former president against against the criminal charges against him for like racketeering, bribery, all kinds of stuff. And when he was placed in jail, they shut down about half the country's economy. They targeted and it was
like a reasonably military level operation. When you look at them ms, it's like, okay, target the you know, the side as the depots, the roads, the rails, reports, shut all that down. But what they did is they then sort of rallied ordinary people and activists within the party to go and glut and raid and target white and Indian owned businesses, and they encouraged them with open use of genocidal rhetoric. And once they were done with the businesses,
they started going off the people's suburbs. But the problem is by then these people, most people had sort of tooled up and hundreds hundreds of black people died trying to do massacre the minorities in Durban and in Coburg Johannesburg.
You actually got you know, large sections of the black population who didn't want anything to do with us insane nonsense, who formed their own defensive forces, and now they're sort of they've evolved into something called Operation to Doula and another thing called the Soweto Parliament, who are aiming for some sort of non partisan national sort of black nationalist ideology that's non communist and non pan African, turned their back on the liberation and and sort of gone very
hard on order stuff. So there have been a lot of you know, fall hours from that. It's the best way that you can sort of sum up the black nationalist ideas over here is that they are the two key words you have over here are into and unity, and so unity would be in there, but there's no need to make two words. So the idea about UBUNTU is more that our culture is the most human culture.
Your participation, no loyalty to this culture. And then and then the year is like we are not approaching any divisiveness is considered like a fear fundamentally, So this is
very sort of consensus based idea going around. And yeah, so it's it's a very tricky business because trying trying to oppose any of these ideas as a white person you're immediately in the position of going, well, if you appeal to your identity, then you are then you're immediately being divisive if if they even recognize you as being part of the community itself. So it's it doesn't allow a lot of avenues for legitimate resistance, and so everything becomes about a balance of forces.
M m hm yes, oh yeah, No, Well Rob painted a very very detailed picture of the different dispensations. But I think what I want to add there, well, you just ended on it, and that's the balance of forces. There's many of these concepts coming out of South Africa that if you understand them, they can actually be applied
in many contexts. So the balance of forces is pretty much the philosophical is operandi of the a n C when it comes to their practical approach to policy making, making moves in their grand chess game is And that's another thing. Don't don't make the mistake that these a NC oaks are just like idiots or like they don't know what they're doing. Like there's a lot of guys that's just there for corruption, a lot of them just
there to get on the gravy train. But a lot of them are genuine ideologues, people that have an ideological plan, fanatic or about it. But yeah, so the concept of the balance of forces is very simple when it comes to whether they ever want to impose a policy or piece of legislation they chair, they look at the balance of forces, and the balance of forces means is the the the aggregate of all the different forces that are pro and against us in our favor or against us
in our favor or not in our favor. And the only way, the only way you can really influens the ruling party, the ANC, is by tipping the balance of forces against them, or to put them in a position where they realize but the balance of forces is not in there, then you can make them do anything you want, if you if you can play that power game, because that's their game, that's the rule they that's the rule they play by. And it's it's that old concept of
you push. You push the population to a certain point, and when they react and push back, you stop, and you wait and you wait for them to calm down, and.
Then you push again.
You push a little bit, you just push them a meter in one direction, and then they start getting upper, do you they start getting angry, they start burning things, so you stop, you wait, wait for them to calm down. You just do that ad infinitum and pushing them a meter by meter, scen to meter, or even millimeter by millimeter.
In a few years, they end up hundreds of kilometers or miles away from the point where they start, and they have no idea how they got there, and they just snap snap out of it and they're like, how do we get here? While you got their one tiny little scene to me sa at a time. But that's basically their their formula. Now what Rob described when it comes to the apartheid era, that was a dispensation of a forced separation, but now we are living in a
dispensation of forced integration. But it's built on the philosophy the actually pretty much similar to the globalist philosophy of you're trying to solve not the problem of evil, but the problem of conflict, a problem as old as humanity itself. It's every utopians like Gordian not if we can solve this year, you win a prize, but the problem of conflict.
I'm oversimplifying. But the way their philosophy are they want to solve the problem of conflict is they find they pin the root of conflict in difference, So in linguistic differences, religious differences, cultural differences, every type of difference that there is.
That's where conflict in their framework arises from. So of course the next jump then philosophically for them is if we eliminate all these differences or minimize them, we will also minimize conflict and we will move towards a more peaceful, coexisting world of people. Because conflict is also not good for business, as of course Luma told what Rob described there shows you. So there's the utopian side of just wanting to destroy conflict because if you feel that's the
moral right thing to do. And then there's just literally the cynical side of people that want to live in a world of art conflict because conflict is not good for business. Instability is not good for consumers. Any type of war or infighting between groups or civil war or feuds between groups or factions is not good for an economy. It's not good for the graph go up type of people.
So what we are living in South Africa is the South African experiment, or they literally call it in the nineties the South African experiment, but then they realized people were raising their eyebrows, so they started talking about the South African project. Now it's a lot more soft on the ear, but in essence it is a project of forced forced integration. Where do you try to standardize everything? And they got this from the Soviets there an see
this idea of standardization. We want to live. We want to create a society of standardized men. That was what Lenin wanted to do as well with the Russian population. So what she then you? You? My friend Russell lomberti Act actually summed it up very well just a week ago and I talked to him. He said, South Africa is famous for having eleven official languages, but it's the biggest farce. We only have one official language technically speaking,
and that is English, the state mandated language. And that's that part of the homogenization standardization project. Everyone. Firstly, everyone needs to abandon their cultural roots they and adopt a new and their cultural identity and need they need to adopt the South African identity. They are South Africans first, and then they are Afrikanas and Zulus and vendors and Troungas and cause Us and everything in between. But so
that's the one thing. You abandon your organic age, old identities and you take on this new, artificial state based identity where you are a South African whatever that means you live with which it's so empty. You just live in the parameters of South Africa. You live within the borders and you bry some meat over open fire and on again. But then that's the one part. The other part is you abandon your language. That's not good for
efficient system. If you want to run an efficient system, everyone needs to be doing business in one language, getting education in one language, socializing in one language, doing litigation in one language. Courts are running on one language. Every single system needs to be optimized with one language. That language is English. So what you're seeing is a systemic destruction of just every other language in South Africa with the with the black languages, they just don't develop them.
The ANC does everything in their power to make sure these languages just die out and that the black population anglicizes and takes on English. So that's that's the black language is covered. When it comes to Afrikaans, for example, it is a more difficult challenge because Afrikaans in the past hundred years was developed from a kitchen language to
a to a language that is an academic language. I think it's one of only three languages in the last hundred years that was developed from like a low tier just casual language to an academic level language. I think I can't remember what the other two. So, yeah, Hebrew was one of them, and then there's another one. But so Afrikaans is a bit more of a difficult ones because you've got actually you've got universities that are Afrikaans universities.
You've got a lot of Afrikaans literature, you've got Afrikaans school. So what do you start doing. You start destroying those Africa KNT universities by bringing in English. First, you make it bilingual, so that you take Afrikaance university that is educating people and their mother tongue, and you say, well, you're not inclusive enough, so you turn it into a
bilingual university in the name of inclusiveness. As soon as the English Yeah, as soon as the English speaking population is in the majority in the university, you say, well, now that the English speaking population of the university or of the students is the majority, we have no reason to keep it bilingual. We will now turn it into an English university, but with translation services. So if you want to really learn in Afrikaans, you can get a
translation service. But all the textbooks are in Africa are on English, all the classes are in English, all the tests on English. But if you really want to, you can put a little earphone in your in your ear during class and you can hear the lecture what he just said in very poor or very very poor audio quality and someone that's not sure what the real what the academic word is supposed to translate. So then you just kill Afrikaans at the public at the tertiary university level.
That's already done. I was at university during this process. I saw it happen in front of my eyes, the destruction of my mother tongue education at tertiary level. I mean, I started first year trying to get to trying to do my university degree in Afrikaans. I tried. I literally sat and translated all my textbooks into Afrikaans meticulously. And then second year old around I realized, now the work is triple. I can't do it anymore. So I studied in English. So I got my degree in English. But
that's what happens to almost every student. Then, so now you've killed Afrikaans education on tertiary level. What they're currently doing is they're moving to school level now. So now they're trying to destroy Afrikaans in the Afrikaans schools where that's still the instruction language on school level. That's the next phase. But yeah, that aside, there's always forming part of the Grand Standardization project of the ANC forming part
of this. We are trying to create this efficient system of standardized citizens where there's no conflict and where everything is just moving optimally and there's a lot of funds that that we can either loot or that we can use for other means. But yeah, like I said, there is a divide. It's not like everyone within the ruling party is doing everything for the same reason there but there are those that are just there for the corruption.
But there are genuine fanatic idea logues and there are a lot of them are not even in the ruling party. They're just in positions of power, but they're still towing the line because they it's pretty much the South African version of the Cathedral, so they're pretty much just doing they know what they need to do. They don't even need instruction and they're all just marching ahead with the standardization, ormoginization, forced Integration project.
Well what's the excuse?
I mean, yeah, I'm going to have to bring up apartheid because if I don't, somebody's going to scream at me. Is it that we suffered under this? Now we a better question how much leftover of that resentment? Is fuel fuels this or is it something else?
Robber, you can start off the end of aug I just had a lot of time.
I think the best way to I think the best way to start is to sort of realize that a proctect was the way people think of it is they think of that someone came up with this idea that you know, we live in this world with white and black people that separate them. The reality is that South Africa is extremely vast countries. Again, like I said, three
times a side of Germany. And let's say you take one hundred and fifty years ago, You've got maybe three or four million people that's the population of It's not even the population of the Netherlands, like less than the population of Portugal. So you know, extremely though, so everyone sort of settled in areas which are culturally homogeneous or a lesser extent. I mean the cape was different. But
that's much longer and more complicated story. So what happens is when in the country is unified, you've got all these different entities existing in one bubble, and the political elite in the political economy is run out of the white society with some migrant labor from the blacklack areas. So what they're do in order to stabilize is they draw little boundaries around the black areas of black people. Settle can call those homelands. That happened in nineteen thirteen.
They moved about I think sixties to ninety thousand people in order to tidy up the boundaries of these areas. And then yeah, and so then that was the system that be narrative of like basically a bunch of different countries in one area white people much less to one unitary state, and then a whole bunch of like tiny, weird, sort of semi independent states that the living as colonial crapies.
Maybe you just need to add to that when it comes to the modern South African state, you asks what's driving a lot of this? You need to understand This is not a system that is designed just to target white people or Africana people. It is an anti culture system. As Patrick Denin would put it, it is a system that is designed to be a culture shred. This is what the South African current dispensation is. Its mortal enemy is any type of genuine culture or religion, or community
or tradition. It is designed to destroy it, almost like an acid where anything that touches it is just eaten away. That's what it does. So what people need to understand, this is a nuanced point that it gets lost very easily, is that, yes, public enemy Number one of the regime is definitely Africana culture, White English culture. That's definitely one of its main enemies and targets. But it doesn't stop
there at all. It is also targeting and destroying Colored culture and many of the black cultures as well as well. South Africa is being ruled by urban Black South Africans, urban its and that have nothing but contempt for their cultural counterparts. In the rural parts of South Africa. They really don't think a lot of their their cultural counterparts. They actually look down on them as savage and backwards. That's what is happening, and you need to understand that
this is the dynamic that's going on. It's not just a system designed to attack white cultures. It is a system that attacks cultures period. It is there to destroy Afrikana culture, cause our culture, Zulu culture, Vendor culture, all of these are its mortal enemies and it's targeting all of them with laser like precision, and it's mercilessly destroying and wiping them up on a linguistic and a cultural level.
Yeah, this is why Jacobs was such a big shock to the system because he reinjected a sort of he had closer ties to the chieftaincies.
Yeah, he wasn't deraestimated, No, he wasn't.
You know, sort of a traditional polygamous family, proud of his ethnic heritage, which was again it seems very divisive within the ANC. So yeah, it's a difficult That was a difficult thing for everyone, and everyone sort of says, well, ah, you know the reason everything thing's going down is because Jacob Zumer and then they forget, of course that the policies were all set back in the nineteen nineties, so it's just sort of like a slow burn that he
participated in some of but that's besides the point. I mean, the aparthe thing is what we know as a partheid with like people think about like segregated beaches and you know, drinking fun and stuff. That came a little bit later, and it sort of started in a wave of reforms that it was from like the nineteen twenties to thirties, and it was you know, academics sort of refer to
this as grand and petty apart. As a grand aparte, it is like the different geographical areas, you know, which are homelands for black people versus the white metropol and it's sort of vast aggricultural hintment. And then petty Aparte it is the segregation that it's imposed on the migrant laborers from the black areas into white South Africa. So but that migrant labor that is something that was imposed upon white areas who tried to resist it. In the
nineteen twenties, there was a major uprising. They tried to push back against the the importation of black labor from these from these sort of black colonial zones outside of the white metropol and yeah, they were gone done by the government for doing so. So I mean, one of the big crimes that's picked on over here is not just the in segregation, it's also you know, the give economic exploitation. But you know that's a product of an elite that's been in charge of the country since the
year dot. I mean, big families in charge of this country are Rothschild, Oppenheimer and Rupert Becker. There's a couple of others, but I mean the biggest of the big names of you know, the Rothschild family funded the Mulner group that unified the country by war. The Oppenaheima family were funded by JP Morgan in the nineteen twenties to
scoop up the mines on the round. And you know, these people have been pushing for economic and cultural integration for a very long time, and they are actually behind the the Oppenaigi family actually behind the design of the current black economic empowerment laws. In two thousand and three, they wrote the legislation for US that basically forces companies over certain size and over about twenty six percent of
their shares to black investors or whatever. And then they have quotes for management and staff and so on as well. And this applies to all the institutions public and private that you need a minimum quote of black people, and there's no maximum quota. So you can have organizations that completely exclude minorities and that's perfectly legal, but you cannot
have ones that exclude the majority. So the situation over this it's quite dire, and OP and i FM divested from all of their major industrial assets in twenty twelve after they realize of the consequences of their project. But it's sort of like a combination of naivety and cynicism. So the naivete is the aspect of well, you know, we really want to do well by these black people,
and the cynicism as well. This also allows us to have some modicum of control over the black population because the reality is that they an't see by entangling themselves, because they become the primary benefactor of the Black Economic Parliament policies. Most of these share these sort of corporate share shared policies get shared out to ruling party members placements on the board gets it, not to their friends
and family. So but the consequences of this is that now that they're firm not they're not firmly embedded in what they used to call white monopoly capital so this this this means that you know, the AC is stuck
in the stalemate. I mean they're heading towards the position where they're they have enough balance of forces to declare that they've finished the first phase of the national democratic revolution finally, but you know, they're sort of pussy footing around the big decisions because you know, investors can still threaten them with a bad time because of their entanglement. So there's a you know, this sort of combination of fascist fascist economics and and sort of this incrementalist policy.
It sort of it has mixed results, but the big thing that it does is is a cripples investment, which is again something the Oppenheimer found have always delighted in. I mean they poured money into not in the Nationalist Party,
but also the ANC and the divestment sanctions movement. So what they ended up having is all of the foreign companies they divers from South Africa because it becomes uncompetitive and economically unviable, and then they scoop up all of their assets of fire sale prices, and there by the end of the eighties they had direct or indirect control of about eighty percent of the form formal economy, and
I mean these permanent oligarchs. I mean, like some of them are Africa who made their way up during the nationalist period, like the Rupert family. But there's there's like a very very small cluster of dynasties that basically have they ruled the country without any real check on their power. And I mean one of the biggest runs now is a guy called Patrise Mazepe who's the brother in law current president. So yeah, the country is is more the wealth is more concentrated than you see in Russia or
America anywhere else. It's extremely obscene and absurd. And every single stage of a pragmatic adjustment that they're using in order to hold onto their dominance causes more more nasty, stupid cruelty for ordinary people, no matter how sort of flung their ideals that they articulate these things in.
Yeah, and an important point on that where you're talking about the inequality in South Africa. Since nineteen ninety four, inequality in South Africa has grown, but the driving force behind it is not inter race inequality. It's intra race inequality that's driving the inequality. Inequality in South Africa. The creation of a ridiculously wealthy black elite in South Africa is really something to behold.
Money where even a diet.
In the wall capitalist will look at that. We'll look at that and just think this is not moral. This is there's something deeply morally abhorrent about having this much money and spending it in this just inhumanly flagrant way in a country like South Africa. It's it's absolutely insane.
It's now and again, like a receipt or a bull from a government function leaks or like where they went out and had drinks, and it's it is genuinely morally abhorrent to see people, I think in dollar terms spend like in one evening, like almost hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's insane. It's really it breaks your brain.
The worst the worst part is that when you look at they're not building anything with this capital they've got their hands on. There's i mean, the gross capital formation is pretty sort of stagnant in South Africa, so I mean it's it's not at least it's not even free for but I mean it's not looking good.
And yeah, I mean.
Everything's been going downhill for you know, as long as anyone can remember now, and I mean it didn't to be honest, I think I think it's people blame us a lot on the ANC. But if we want to be truly fired actually started under the old regime as well, because right until the sanctions hit, we were running every year the real real sort of average income of white sideplings is computing by about like three annually, and black
wages were increasing by fifty per annually. I mean, there was an extraordinary boom like economic boom into and the amount of sort of redistribution of economic goods was actually quite large. The budget for the state for for you know, often infrastructure for the black areas in the country was in art strip the UN I think five times over h and I mean, look the amount it it's there's
a lot of this development going in. There's lots of economic growth happening, of course, with the the sort of necessary caviaret that the implicit deal was that black people had to accept that they were inferior, and this is delivered to them by a sort of air nas the the although their ideology doesn't really come from Germany, it's more from the Dutch sort of pastor and politician Abram characters who's there was something called the Hamitic hypothesis, the
idea that black people are the sons of ham and you know, the course of nowhere all of that. But I mean, this, this this large growth that was I mean, it wasn't quite as as energetic as you saw from the Asian tigers, but it was pretty pretty good. And and then when the sanctions hit in the late seventies early eighties, the economy hits a brick wall. And now we're at war with the Soviet Union on the border.
I mean, most people say so and Gola, but the reality was that it's like the Russians war with Ukraine. All of the troops are being moved around by Russian generals, all of the angolamy, all the troops were moving moved around by Russian generals. All the equipment was.
From in the mixed as well.
Humans were in the mix as well, and soth Africa was owned against against this lot. And yeah, so that was the combination of a hot war on the border with a global superpower, and you know, economics, sanctions meant that the solution was just I mean, like the security budget for the state was like new fifty percent of
the state budget. It was exceeded fifty percent of state budget by eighty six, and the sort of segregation rules have become absurd to where like you know, black labors were traveling like I think it was like six to eight hours daily transport. It was like the average to transport distance there to get a bit and from work, and you know, constant terrorism and the inflation rate hit hit an absurd point. So we start getting we start getting a really sort of runaway inflation in this period,
and it never really quite cool down. I mean we've had, we've had it's sort of stagnate. Inflation is sort of stagnated in the high single digits, and it's been sort of like that for as long as anyone can remember. Occasionally it jumps about ten percent, but not that often. But it's just not good because everyone's savings are worth nothing. I mean, it's not like Argentina, no Lebanon or Turkey or anything. But that's you know, if these are This
wasn't like a sort of temporary thing. It's just sort of like that's how things are always and have been since you know, forty years ago. So yeah, it's that the economy has taken a knock. I mean, there's some other sort of funny, funny stuff that you'll find in economics that that I think are under underrated. And the big one for me is actually the deregulation of trucking in nineteen seventy seven. And people thinking, Okay, well, this
is like this marginal, ridiculous issue. The reality is that when you deregulate the trucking industry, so the relationship between the way to the trucks and the amount damage that they do to the to the roads is actually exponential increases to the power of four. So you know, like your normal family sedan does so little damage you don't even need to measure it, but the second you have like multi ton trucks, it's very severe. So they deregulated this.
Two things happen when you do this. First of all, your damage on the roads gets enormous, and all of those costs are externalized, right, so it becomes much cheaper to run. And we've got the most extensive road network, one of the most extensive road networks of any country, you know, we really really highly paved country. And the freight charges that people are risking when they put their goods on the train. Well, you know you don't have to do that sticking on a modular transport unit traveled
on the road. So then your revenue for the rail goes down, on your ability to keep preparing the resk go down. So in the past fifty years we've seen a decline in the rails and a decline in road quality and starting to reach up to an absolutely insane degree because the rails are not profitable, they're not being run.
And they find all of the vast majority of the qualified civil urbans that were running everything that we had at the end of the nineties, I mean, so many of them actually offered to stay on free of charge because they were so desperate to keep the country from falling into the condition that now is. But you know they weren't running to hear It's like, well bye, by Whitey, we've heard enough from you. And I mean, the consequences are things that everyone has to bear. But the reforms
in nineteen seventy seven they went beyond that. I mean they decided to try to peace the international market by embargoing Rhodesia, which meant that their war effort against the against SNOPF last two more years only so I mean, like all of the reforms under forced that you know, attempts to appease the greater liberal Wesstern world, you know, by sort of slightly opening up the labor markets because they ended and they actually sort of gradually dismantled the
color bar from that point on, and by the mid of the eighties, they were no longer enforcing segregated living areas, so you know, if you buy a you could rent houses under proxy and sort of set up anywhere in any town. So you see, like people, you know, people are no longer hemmed in by where they're where they're working from. It's just everything starts going. A party started
being dismantled in seventy seven. The idea that they were aiming for something called consociationalism, which is a plan from a Dutch guy called Ardent Laypath, and the idea is that basically you give every ethnic group some kind of veto on what happens at national politics. And it didn't
work out. So I mean they tried stuff like to we had like tricameral parliam in the nineteen eighties, so that you had, you know, you have these two different tiers of the white parliam and you were a third tier for various for people of various races to participate in. And they tried to set all set all the bunch stones up for independent national government, but they didn't really trial that hard. They didn't give them contiguous territories. They're
too scared of pissing off their voting base. I mean, it's just like everyone realized, like fifty years too late, that they maybe should have been a bit more pragmatic with how they divided the country up. And you know, by the time, by the time negotiating settlement with the A and C, you're on the back foot. You've got no money in the kitty, and nobody believes in the system anymore, because I mean it was it was just inevitable. I mean, nobody sort of took any of the problem seriously.
And the fixes that people are looking at now I'm just looking and going, you know, this is all too little, too late. I mean, all of the major reformers that the Western powers of funding, now you know you've got I wrote a little sit of a sardonical blog person called the World Economic Forum party. They're talking about like the leader of this new party that's been run a
former Democratic Alliance, the Liberal Opposition Party. A former candidate from there called the Demo Mazibuko who went and studied at Harvard, got picked up by well, the Economic Forum and not like that's recruiting inside of it. So between her and then people who have associations with like the Open Side Foundation and stuff, they want to put together a new political party, and there's another group that wants
to put together a similar political party. And all of these like nuimal parties that are heading towards the elections of twenty twenty four are sort of varying shades of status quo, but like maybe a tiny bit more border security or maybe a tiny bit sort of more market liberalism, but fundamentally racial discrimination, big good time, you know, radical
libertine progressivism, big excellent good time. You know, it's you know, none of them are really interested in asking serious questions about what's role at the country or you know, where it's headed. And everyone's basically accepted what the ns HE
preached in the nineties as states quote. And so the question is between you know, do give back this sort of like you know, silly meaning marked compromise or do you back back something real and the people who are asking for something real is really sort of done to the economic Koreeum fighters who want a black nationalist totalitarian society in which all minorities are completely excluded from everything or pushed into the ocean and the economies run on
communist principles. Or you have the independence movements, and there's only really, sort of the way I see it, there's three of them. There's a Enclave separatism, there's Cape separatism, which is what I'm involved in, because the Cape, while being sort of ethnically non homogeneous, is sort of like a creole gradient culture, so there's none of it, so it's
not quite as contentious as it could be. And then There'szoo independence, which unfortunately is not organized as nobody really doing much important, but a lot of people are sympathetic, so they just need to get organized. And these are the only real sort of big questions you can big answers to the question you know where South Africa going is?
Do you muddle along until nothing functions anymore and there's nothing worth saving, or do you try to and press the button and get like a real solution that may be painful and unpopular, but it gives you something worth saving. And the thing is we keep denying the second option everywhere, every every single stage where we had a reform opportunity, we've gone like nah, fam, I'm just going to hang about and keep trying to make this ridiculous nonsense work.
And I mean, there were two major opportunities in the previous two dispensations. During the initial Union dispensation, we could have stuck what it was called the Cape franchise. That's what kind of what Rhodisa did is you have a non racial franchise with a property qualification, so only a minority of people vote. But if but regardless of race, you can enter this class and become a full citizen participany political process. That's what the CAPE had until nineteen
thirty six, if I remember correctly. But instead, what we did is we wanted to dilute the vote in order to get more Afrikaans people voting. So when the Nationalist Party went its first election nineteen twenty four, and so what they did is they gave all white people, men, women, children, men and women sorry the vote everyone about eighteen the
more qualified franchise. And that meant that now the majority of voters are Afrikaans and the road to Africana Nationalism was said, Okay, so now you're going to do you're going to do a unit. You're going to have like a monoculture likel to a sort of model. Interesting, But then what they do is they failed to give the black people enough sort of territory that they can autonomously
govern themselves. It's like if you've looked anyone's ever looked at a map at the bunt Tons in South Africa, It's like, you know, all these little peppercorn dots everywhere, but put it one. I was breaking into how many, like six pieces or something, And so I mean, like even the ones that were relatively functional that we're confronted with extremely ridiculous territorial situations, and you know, they didn't want to bite the bullet. The government didn't want to bite the bullet and threaten.
The Just just proof that I live in South Africa. The runing blackouts just hit me this side. But I've got my My internet's fine and my laptop is charged, so we can continue the conversation. Just giving you some context that I do live in the third world. I'm not a Charlattan, I'm not a hoaxer. Wow, but light on just one second, but Rob can continue.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just want to say, like this continual refusal to choose meaningful options that have that have a sort of consistency in terms of how they present themselves to the public is I mean, partially it's a result of the economic and permanent economic interests upon it as a result of I think a lack of willingness to try radical solutions. So you have the NC that has these erradical ideas, but then the balance of forces isn't in
their favor. So they come in in the nineties and they don't get to they don't get to fulfill any of the radical ideas that they really wanted to. They just hand out some welfare and and then a few ten years later they get the Black Economic Department program and it's all sort of like this muddling nonsense. And what they do in the meantime is they get the solution and they steal everything that isn't nailed down and
everything goes goes to Helen a handcart. And now we've presented in this new period heading into twenty twenty four, were heit we're handled at a new option, a new set of options, right, is we can really think about. Okay, clearly everyone agrees that whatever we're doing though it's not working. But the willingness of people to alternative alternative seems to
be basically tero. If you look at the liberal the liberal opposition, the way that they're presenting we have what we believe in is how did they put constitutionalism and the rule of law? I mean, like, what does that even mean? Because I mean, okay, so if they want, if they want to say in law and order, I'd be like, oh, okay, I see, I see where you're going. You want crime gone, you want you know, peace and quiet. But it's not that's not what they're really fighting for
because they know that they can't win that fight. They can't really depress the The country's overrun with violent crime. I mean, the mining industry has been taken over by informal mining gangs to you know, brutally rape people in broad daylight. It's crazy nonsense. And they're looking at this and they're saying, well, we can make attractive to investors, pay off our debt, and then get some functioning public services, and then within fifty years maybe we can turn this
thing around. And my response to that is, well, everyone knows that you're a minority party. Do you really think you can stay in power for fifty years? Like are you where do you guys fall out? It's give it up, We'll take what you you know, take what you can get away with realistically, And and for me, that's the cape. I mean the cape even now. I mean it's like it's not a guarantee thing that this is actually a viral,
viable political enterity in the future. It's like we have a chance that we have, we have a chance.
But just for some production value for your show, you got some proof on camera of the state of South Africa. Literally while we're talking, are the ruling black arts?
Hit my side?
But John, I just wanted to give a little bit of a foreboding thing. If you have any European listener as you better be preparing for this well.
As before we started, you you had mentioned to me you said we were talking about race, and you said, let's talk about culture. And you said, like the culture of an africannor and the culture of a white American or any American really is or you specifically said a white American would be completely different, Like we.
Know there's a big difference, and people don't get it. The best way to answer is actually a question that me and Rob get off and is like just when when? For example, Rob is and I'll spend time in detail etching the situation in South Africa, painting the picture, and then a lot of people abroad listen to that story and they're like, but why are you still there? Why don't you just leave? Why don't you just immigrate? And in answering that question, you'll realize what's driving us and
many people here. The fact is, if I were to to immigrate to America within one or two generations, my my grandchildren or my children even will not be Afrikaners. They will be speaking English. They will be Americans, and they will probably not even know their history well. They will not know about the Buo Wall, they will not know about the Great Trek, they will not know about all those stories that I told you at the beginning of the stream, and they will they will their their
tie with their cultural heritage will be severed. And that's the thing a lot of and this is a very cynical approach, but a lot of people use the situation of the Afrikaners that we find ourselves in especially a lot of people of the race nationalist bend. They just see us as an opportunity to bolster their numbers in their own country and that they pretty much are hoping for catastrophe in South Africa so that we all flee as refugees to their countries so we can bolster their numbers.
But they don't give a They don't give a shit about Afrikaanas or our culture because the reality is, if that were to happen, Africana culture is not made to be a diasporic culture. We don't have the cultural armor, we don't have the cultural tools to be able to survive outside of Africa. It just doesn't happen. I mean, you will assimilate. Africanas particularly have an inclination to assimilate and have shown a willingness and an eagerness to assimilate
in many of the countries, and it makes sense. It's the proper thing to do when you immigrate to a country, you assimilate to the host country. That is what the proper thing. That's what I expect of someone that lives in my community, and that's what I would do if I were to move to another community. That's what you should do. But that means that if there is no future for Africanas in South Africa, there is no future
at all for the culture. And that's the thing. It's when you look at South Africa just through a racial lens, you're not going to understand that side of it. You're just going to see a a struggle between a white minority and a black majority, and you're you're going to have no idea why the white minority is still sticking around.
Why don't they just leave? Why don't they just leave to and go live in a white majority country or in a first world country, or in a Western country or whatever, any place better than South Africa?
Right?
But we stick around? I mean, shit, did I've got the means to immigrate and I'm not doing it and
I'm not planning to ever. And that's the thing. And I think that's where that's where your big lesson when it comes to South Africa comes in, is the fact that when it comes to digging in somewhere and fighting for something that's important to you and something that's meaningful to you, there is no more meaningful in great life than that to be fighting for something genuine I mean, a lot of people talk about like these fantasies of like living in a post apocalyptic world and like fighting
for survival. I mean, should do a lot of those elements you're going to find in South Africa. I work for an organization that's fighting for cultural survival every day and I love it and it gives me meaning in my life. And there's never been a morning where I didn't want to go to work. And that's the that's
the thing. I'm fighting for something meaningful. And that's what's interesting is my colleague Adam's Roots, was in America recently and he was talking to a lot of Americans and he just came back and he told me a lot of them are a lot more pessimistic about the future than us. And I'm like, well, there's your insight. Let that stew a little bit at the back of your mind. Think about the fact that the Americans are more black palled about the future than the South Africans or the Africanas.
I mean, yoh man, but there's the lesson. That's what you did. Then you, as an American need to ask the question, what can I learn from the Africanas or from South Africa that can make me as optimistic about the future as these oaks living there at the southern tip of Africa and a dysfunctional, dedeveloping country, in a shitthole country, How can I get the same type of meaning and optimism in my life? And that's the I touched on this in my piece for IM seventeen seventy six,
But it's it's a lot more than that. And the big the big thing that I can can tell you is the fact that you firstly need to start getting active in your community around you. And I think that's where a lot of the satisfaction is coming to for Afrikanas. When you're living in difficult times, all these opportunities start presenting themselves out of necessity. People start doing neighborhood watches out of necessity, people start getting involved in community based
organizations out of necessity. It's not just a hobby. Unfortunately, in a lot of First world countries where self Africanization is a real reality, you're not going to start seeing people do what the Afrikaners are doing until things get a lot worse, until they have to start doing things out of necessity. Your neighborhood watch can't just be your hobby. It needs to be something that you're doing because you need to. That's when it comes a real meaningful thing.
It's not just people driving around having beers and shooting guns in the air. Then it's you're actually protecting something your love, and you're doing something that you know is bigger than your still participating in something bigger than yourself. And that's the white Paul that I want people to take from South Africas. Don't I see a lot of especially young people like Zoomers in the First World in America and Europe looking around and thinking, we're all these
great heroes. The history is full of all these great men and great heroes and people that I admire. But when I look around, I don't see any people like that. Well, let me give you the white paul from living in a de developing country like South Africa. When things start getting really rough, when you know that adage of good times and bad times and all that dynamic works in good times, there's no heroes in good times, there's no great men around you. Everything is just You're going to
be struggling to find great men around you. But when hard times hit, they're going to be a dime does, and they're going to be around you everywhere, and they're going to be emerging organically out of the communities around you. None of the great leaders that I've encountered in South Africa, in my community and from other communities were educated in hard to be great men or leaders. They were made
great leaders and great men through the difficult circumstances. So that would be the silver lining as you enter maybe hard times, if you can't change the trajectory of your country, at least you will start seeing times of great men and great leaders once again, and you will have great stories and you will have ample opportunity to live a great life. And that's one of the things I said in that peace of mind, where the benefit of living in good times is that you have ample opportunity to
live a comfortable life. But the benefit of living in hard times and bad times is that you have ample opportunity to live a great, meaningful life. That's what I want people to take from it is that. But you also need to start working now. Prevention is a lot better than cure. I mean, who would ever forego the opportunity to look into the future for free? And as my colleague in the Solidata date Bevejngo movement flipbase is when he talks about South Africa, he says, in some
provinces in South Africa, the future has already happened. For example, the province where I live, Haating, the future has already happened. The province where Rob is living, the Western Cape, the future is yet to happen. But I would like to use that. I would like to expand that concept on a global level, where in South Africa the future has already happened, and in America and in Europe the futures
yet to arrive. So why would you if you were able to see the tsunami or the shockwave coming, why would you already then start building damn walls and to start building defenses and start digging in if you could have that foresight, I think that would be my call to action to people on the outside looking into South Africa's you better start taking notes now. And it's always better to be prepared then to let the ship hit the fan and then you have to scramble for solutions.
That's the situation that Africanas were in at the end of a parthate. I mean, this is what we were talking about off air going back to a previous theme, but it does, it does come back. It circles back to what I'm talking about now. During a part that Africanas were just dependent on the state became became just animal state statist animals where you if you need a job, you work for the state. The state looks after we gave up all our responsibilities to the state. The state
preserves your culture for you. The state keeps you safe through security, the state propagates you and protects your language. And then suddenly one day that state changed hands and then the state wasn't in control of Africanas anymore. And then suddenly we had to learn everything from scratch. Like a muscle that hadn't been used for years, it atrified. So basically you just ended up having to start building
again from scratch. And that's the other thing that I think another warning from South Africa is don't be tempted by the false song. If we were just in charge of the state and of the government, then things would be or would be fine. No, no, no, no, you have to start thinking outside of that. You have to start thinking about a different alternative. You can't just think about the next election. You have to start thinking about the next generation, about planting trees for under which you
will never be never be able to sit. You can't just think about if we just win the next election and everything will be different, everything will be fine. And trust me, it won't. It won't change a lot. Actually, but I see a lot of Americans and Europeans waking up to that reality. You're going to have to start being the solution yourself. Don't wait for a night or a hero on a white horse to appear on the horizon. That horse isn't coming. You're going to have to start
doing that yourself. You're going to have to be the hero in your own capacity. And that's I can speak from experience of living in hard times in the future. I'm speaking to you through a time portal from the futures. Like in hard times, you get the opportunity to be that hero on the white horse. You don't. You don't wait for for that person, because if you're going to die waiting, so you better start doing it now. You
better start in the worst thing. I think one of the biggest people always talk about, like reshuffling chairs on the Titanic, whatever that metaphor is but I think there's a bigger lesson from the Titanic and the big the big mistake. Big lesson you need to learn from the story of the Titanic is that thousands of people died because everyone trusted that everything was going to be okay
until the last second. Everyone until the last minute believed the ship wasn't going to sink, and then the shit hit the fan, and then in the last moments people started realizing the ship was going to sink, and then it was too late. You need to start realizing that the system around you is not working and it is grinding to a halt, and there's black smoke coming out of the pipe of this of this machine, and you better start building some life rafts now they're going They
don't have to be perfect. Perfect is the enemy of the of good. Build adequate life raft net pragmatism, be your be your guide when it comes to this, leave the leave the utopian bullshit behind. Like I'm actually currently working on a piece I'm going to title it Africa No No Continent for the utopian ideas, where it's when you're living in a first world country like the United States, you have the luxury of having endless debates about theory
of like, what's that real liberalism? No, that was that real communism? Is that real fascism? Whatever? You have that luxury. Me and Robin South Africa, we don't have that luxury of just endlessly debating theory. You we're kind of forced to work in the the laboratory of pragmatism. You kind of forced to work on real world solutions that work. When the tire hits the road. You can tell me, you can give me a million sources that prove that
this solution should work. It works on paper, and therefore it should work in reality. But if we've tried it ten fifteen times and failed in reality every time, we're going to have to jettison that idea and try something new. So I think, yeah, that's probably where I want to end off. Is again just those the main lessons that you should learn is the one thing is definitely you need to start asking the right questions. I told this to Alex Kashuda and me and rob also were on
her show. The big problem with many people on the right when it comes to South Africa is they're looking at South Africa to learn the lessons that they want to learn, not the lessons that they need to learn. And you're going to have to learn the lessons that you need to learn, not the lessons that you want to learn. I think that's that's where I'm going to end it. That's something to keep at the back of your mind to think about.
Rob.
Do you have anything to say before we close it out?
Yeah? Well, I mean I'm not going to these high for ambitious IDEs andism because it's just it doesn't suit my character. But I'll put it this way. It's sort of you're going to look around here and realize there's no one who's going to come to save you, and maybe you can you can sort of content yourself for a little while that, Yeah, well, the collapse is coming
maybe ten, fifteen, twenty fifty years alown the road. Things are fine for now, but you know, I think things are looking pretty dire, and I think people need to start moving. And if you don't see anyone around who you can hit, you know, your trailer too, you can ride on their coattails. Then you're going to have to beat the path of yourself and it's going to suck, and you're not going to be very good at it.
And you're probably going to fail, and you're probably going to sappoint a lot of people, but you know, if there's no one else, there's no one else.
So you've got to do it.
I'm not the guy who's going to trash the idea of getting going into politics, because the one thing about the West is you still do have a political system where we don't have a state. We're a minority that doesn't have real representation for the most part, and you know,
we've got to accept that and work with it. You know, our times as you know, people with a state with a future sort of it's long over and now we're sort of, you know, thinking like moles burrowing into the hills, and you don't want to end up in that situation. And so you've got a little window of time. It doesn't feel like a little window, but it is a little window, and you know, use it if you can. I think whatever tools are available, those are the ones
that should that should be used. And I think people should act with conviction because a lot of the time people sat and are satisfied with us. I think the big thing that lives in the West, I think there are two things. When people get sucked into the narcissistic idea if they just want people to see how their perspective and then they're happy sort of like see everything screwed, you know, and they'll blame it on Like it doesn't matter what they're blaming on, whether it's you Jews or
oligarchs or you know, foreigners that left. How do you want to frame the causes and what have you? The situation? How do you defer people? Just want them to just want to affirm their picture of things and then move on.
I mean a good example of that for me would be the Dutch Party Foreign for Democracy, who, yeah, their leaders a very ineffective historyonic narcissist who despite sounding very based on television, doesn't really do much to further the cause and has actually been mostly the cause of the right in the Netherlands sort of collapsing on its own under its own way, and it happens a lot. The other thing is that people get satisfied with small victories.
You'll win an election and then you just sort of sit there say haha, we're on top now, it looks okay. Donald Trump, he gets in charge, how much did he really do to clear up to drain the swamp and clear up the people in charge. Well not that much. As it turns out. Boris Johnson wins the biggest lead that the Conservatives have since, you know, for a bloody long time. What does he do with that lead? He does nothing. You know, we're now look at Georgia Maloney
in Italy. Everyone's getting all excited and dewey eyed and you know, firm in the trousers. But you know it remains to be seen if she's going to do anything. And I think those things are important. You know, it's this is politics. Isn't a stage show. I mean, it does involve a little bit of theatrics, but the functional point is to transform your society or to defend it,
and you know people need to take that seriously. And the other thing is again, I mean, I know as has picked up on non state solutions, but you know in South Africa it's much more tangible. It's like you have to provide all of this, all of the state functions yourself in many areas.
Because the state is collapsing around you. Correct, but how do you think honestly, you don't even have to ask permission because the state can't do anything to stop you right, And how do you.
Think about this If you have a state, if you have a civil society, I mean here in the Western Cape, it's sort of like a limbo zone where you can you can you can see then you can see the mud slide approaching you, and you don't know if your heart is going to be swept away. But you're also aware that things are still a long way off, or at least far enough off that you know, so if you wanted to, you could park off and have a holiday,
you know, but it's still coming. And then you've got the first world where everything it's easy to be welded into a false sense of security. But what have you got around you? You haven't got these sort of gaps where there are obvious sort of solutions where you can editize. I mean, even as organization that he works for, Afri Forum, the big thing that they actually got, well, one of the bigger things that they got famous for when they were sort of a bit smaller was fixing potholes in
the roads. But in my province we have a sort of liberal mostly minority government and ethnic minority government who are you know, they're pretty good at keeping the roads paved. So then you know what, what's your process for appeal to build your organizational structure, it's got to be a bit different. You've got to focus on like cultural items and sort of labor issues and funny things like that. And in Europe it's going to be very difficult because
you really, you know, there's lots of infiltrators. It's not like over here. And I think you're going to have to build infrastructure outside the state. You're gonna build networks, You've gotta build. I mean, I don't want to teach anyone to suck eggs, but I think I think the thing is that it's actually kind of in a funny way, it's easier when the problem is very immediate because everyone can see it. When it's a nebulos like it is in Europe, you've got to get really creative, and I don't.
I sort of I feel very nervous when I look at Europe because that's a place where if it falls apart, it will fall apart rapidly, and there's not a lot you can do to stop it once it gets past the point of my return.
So it's like the difference between a house of cards made out of two cards and a house of cards made out of a hundred cards collapsing.
I think that's a good analogy. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, ours is a house of cards of two cards like you just knock one. Oh wow, it's fallen over. Well, let's just put it up a little bit, you know. But you know you're in Europe.
You've got like it and it's cut off card and build a little little structure within.
When that thing falls, you know it's going to it's it's not just going it's not just going to be a sort of you know, an elegant arrangement. It's going to be horribly brutal, you know. I mean, I don't know, I don't know what people are looking forward to at the moment there. But my point is you have nowhere to run to, so you know you've got to do something. I don't know, I don't know what people do. They're going to do something because you know, it's your future,
it's place, it's you, it's your parture, you know. I mean, we've been here long.
And the other thing is that you should abandoned this this idea of well things get bad, I'll just move to a different state, or I'll just move to a different country. Eventually, tide you run out of the higher ground to lead to eventually you're going to drown.
Yeah, but like you can't.
I mean, what are you going to do.
You're going to be some derascinated expert floating around the Middle East or East Southeast Asia, you know. I mean, it's like, that's not a sustainable that's not a sustainable model for any community. I don't see I don't see that as being I don't see that as being like a future anyone wants to be a part of. I mean, it certainly can be a future that people end up in, and it can be fun, you know, up to up to a point, but you know, collectively, that's not that's
not a future anyone should be designing. So you know you're going to pick what you end up as much as you can. And I mean, then at least you know, if you fail, you can at least you know you can go out saying, well, you know, I did my part, I've done my duty. I'm not going to feel ashamed of myself at the very least, you know you don't want to be. It's it's it's the equivalent of going to your your mother's funeral and not having parted on
good good terms. You know, you've got to do your you've got to do your heritage, you've got to do your future a good term so that you can rested lease a little bit easy.
I think, well, let's end up there, give your plugs any anything you want, anything you want.
To so my plugs are not going to work seeing as it's a rolling black art and there's no electricity. But now I'll keep it simple and short. If people like want to explore more of these types of ideas and about and follow a channel and a commentator that specifically focuses on culture and politics in Southern Africa, you can go to my YouTube channel, a Conscious Caricle, or you can follow me on Twitter also conscious Carical. One of the jokes always and people ask me like, how
did you choose your username? What was your plan with your whole brand? I'm like, if I if I had a plan from the beginning and thought that I was going to gain an audience at all, I would have chosen the easier name to spell and plug. But if you really want to, if you need it spelled art on on Twitter, I'm at c O N C A R A c A L or just conscious character for
those that can that can go type it in. And then also you can just so check out my YouTube and my Twitter and then from there you'll find everything else. And that's that's about it.
Right, Yeah, Well, I have a I have a blog, and I have a Twitter handle, and I have a YouTube channel, but I don't update the YouTube channel very much, and my blog is also sporadic. It depends on what I'm working on in my professional capacity. I'm not the most organized person. So if I've got any if I'm if I'm even marginally busy in my professional life, I don't. I don't do any of this stuff on the side.
But I do have a sort of mostly completed documentary series so African History that I made on my YouTube channel that was really good. That's Marl Barney. That's m A R H O B A n E. And then I mean there's like a few sort of like essays which I read out and took questions on on that channel as well. And then my my substack has a whole bunch of stuff varying from you know, like meditative you know, reflections on sort of literature and philosophy and history,
and stuff and politics and electoral politics and coach. Yeah, all that kind of stuff mostly centered on CI Africa, but a case you global politics. Also Marl Banni at substack. And then now on Twitter, I'm under my own name, I mean the handles at Marl Barney, but the the name of the account is my name, Robert Dagens d U I G A N. There's only one of me because it's a fairly unusual little Irish surname. And yeah, so you can check that out if you really want to and hopefully find it interesting.
I then, for more context on the I think what I was talking about on the show, you can go read my im seventeen seventy six piece A Time to Dig Trenches. I think that I'll give you a lot more in depth, nuanced than what we were able to fit in an A and of sure.
I will make sure to link to all of that so that people can get easy access. So man, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
All right, thank you, cheers walk well, God bless.
I want to welcome everyone back to the Peak and Yona Show. I am pleased today to be talking to mister Simon Roche. Is it how do we pronounce your name?
Is it roach? Everybody says roch or roach, but technically it's Rosch. It's a French word that means stone.
A rush sounds good to me. Welcome to the show, Tell everybody a little bit of yourself.
And thank you very much for having us Pete. My name is Simon Rosch. I represent an organization called Southlanders. The first vowel sound is a bit tricky. It's sui d Landers, Sui d Landers and Southlanders means Southlanders or Southern as if you prefer. And Southlanders is a civil
defense organization constituted as such under international law. South African organization dedicated to the planning and preparation of a national emergency plan in the event of a civil war in South Africa, which sounds very extreme and dramatic until you consider the I suppose the background South Africa as an unstable country, as it's proven over the past thirty years, and we happen to be those people who believe that the trajectory like a ball sailing through the air of
South Africa is quite clear. We're headed for some sort of a collision, a crisis. The country can't go forever. The way. It has been going under ANC rule for almost the past thirty years, since the twenty seventh of April nineteen ninety four, without eventually some crisis emerging. So we're a civil defense organization constituted under the specific provisions of international law, particularly but not only, the Jeevan Geneva Conventions.
The protocol are known as the Protocols additional to the Geneva Conventions, which make specific provision, very specific provision for identifiable ethnic groups to prepare to defend themselves in the event of a calamity in their country, whether that be a civil war or international war, whatever the case may be.
And so we're just those people. Were the largest organization of our sort in the world, and if anybody has an interest, they welcome to visit state Lounders s u id landers dot org the largest organization of our sort in the world. And I represent the organization. I'm a salaried employee. I'm paid to do the work that I do, and I'm presently in the United States spreading the word and endeavoring to raise funds for the work that we do.
Well.
I think a lot of the people who watch the show are aware, at least if not in depth, have a cursory knowledge of everything that's going on in South Africa and has been since what's known as apartheid ended. But I would like you to start by doing an overview of the history of South Africa. I think a lot of people believe that South Africa is a place where it was completely inhabited by indigenous Black Africans and the white man came in and pushed them out or
enslaved them. And is that a proper narrative or is that something that is just made up, like a lot of the history we hear in the world now.
No, it's a gross exaggeration, Pete. The first permanent settlement was established in South Africa in sixteen fifty two, and at that time the whites, the colonizers, they were Dutch. The first permanent settlement was what is now known as Cape Town, well it was then as well, and those people worked for the Dutch East India Company and they met Indigenous Africans, particularly the people known as bushman. The politically correct term for bushman is san but it's actually
a very nasty word. It's a black word for robber or thief. So it's politically correct stupidity, really, the stupidity of academics and elitists who can't speak a word of an indigenous language, true to form. And the bushmen are very small people, very scattered people, and there was kind of a modus vivendi, you know that there was stealing and reprisals and what have you. But the colonizers and the bushmen coexisted because the region is very, very spacious.
About one hundred and twenty five years later, the then commander of the fort at Cape Town got it into his head to search out black people because he was in Africa, you know what I mean. And all he'd met was the little, yellow skinned, very petite bushmen who lived in small family groups, very scattered, without much without any governance of any description whatsoever, and without much social
structure apart from these tiny little family groups. And he wanted to know where the where all the black people are. He's in Africa, you know, he was supposed to have black shir And so he set out on a journey to find proper dark skin, dark curly head, broad shouldered black people as you know them. And he found them about six hundred miles away from Cape Town. After almost a two year search on the east bank of the famous Great Fish River, and that one anecdote tells you
the whole story. It tells you everything that you need to know. Excuse me on the simple reality is that South Africa was so sparsely populated, and indeed an enormous portion of it not populated at all by Black Africans, that it took the proto whites of South Africa, the first whites of South Africa, one hundred and twenty five years to meet up with the Negroid to use the technical term the Negroid black people of Africa as everybody knows them. And if that is not instructive, then nothing
will ever teach anybody anything. It took the whites of South Africa one hundred and twenty five years to meet the first also people, the first black people before the Zulus, the Sutus, the Twanas, the de barely and so on, one
hundred and twenty five years. And you know, today was flicking through Tweeter and a black South African was making some sort of cynical observations of African National Congress government and he was pointing out that it's a very little known fact that the majority of farmland in South Africa
is owned by black people. And as you and I know, there's been this anc campaign over the past thirty years to repatriate the land to the blacks, and liberals and imbeciles have the idea in their minds that the whites own all of the farmland and the blacks are cooped up in teeny tiny little I don't know what, like Brazilian favelas or something. And it's an absolute fallacy, even
right through a Part eight. Aside from privately owned black land, aside from black townships, the Zulu Kingdom's Trust, which is called the Ingonyama Trust owned and still does own thirty two percent of the Zulu Province, the Zulu Land Province, the Quadzulu Province formerly known as the Natel Province. And that's just one anecdote. I could give you hundreds that might give a sense of perspective on this thing. It's very, very very poorly understood. It's not like the United States
of America. It's not like whatever other example you want to pluck out of thin air. South Africa is. South Africa was very sparsely populated. It took over a century for whites and blacks as such to meet, and to this day black people occupy and own a significant portion of the country.
I know that mining minerals gems are a part of the history. When did that start and did that bring tension among the people.
So in reply to your question, naturally it created tension, I should point out to you. And this is very very well recorded. This is not some convenient right wing racist maniac statistic. People can look this up for themselves. In the early part of the nineteenth century, that is to say that early eighteen hundreds. In eighteen oh seven, the British Empire banned the slave trade, but the banning
of slave ownership only occurred in eighteen thirty four. So those are two salient figures for your audience members to remember for the rest of their lives. If people talk about slavery and slaving and what have you, eighteen oh seven, right throughout the British Empire, the slave trade is banned. I can't buy slaves anymore. I can't sell you slaves anymore. But I'm going to hang on to the slaves that I do have. And that lasted for twenty seven years
until eighteen thirty four. Now that's almost an aside. It's not really that relevant to what I'm about to say, but it gives some sense of perspective. During that period, an event known as the Great Crushing occurred, the infantah Neh and all of that. There's absolute consensus between all serious scholars on this subject, and that is that the number of black people in South Africa at that time
was roughly three million. And in this Great Crushing, this enormous civil war between black people, not involving whites at all at all, no whites participated. There's no record, there's no allegation, there's no claim, there's no nothing. The blacks killed about two thirds of their population, something like two thirds, and they're fantastic records of this. And these were in regions that had not been ever occupied by whites, because the whites had not yet fled the Cape of Good
Hope in reaction to the slaving laws. It was only after eighteen thirty four that the whites said, we hate the British Empire. We don't want anything more to do with the Queen. They can all go to hell. We're leaving this colony, this British colony. By then it was British, although it was founded by the Dutch, and we're setting off into the hinterland to create new republics, the famous
poor republics. And off they went. But that began only in response to the slaving dramas of eighteen thirty four and thereabouts. So prior to that, in the regions outside of those or that large region occupied by the whites and the bushmen, only the whites and the bushmen, the very sparsely scattered, the scarified bushmen. Only. It was only in the mid is that the whites left that region and went into the regions that had hitherto been occupied
by the blacks. And whether people like this argument or not, the reality is that the whites went into a region you can look it up, of about seven hundred eight hundred thousand square kilometers. I don't know what that is in miles and square miles that was settled only by about a million people who had survived the infectani and liberal what do you call these people? Liberal missionaries, liberal adventurers,
David Livingston and the like. They recorded, never mind the conservatives, the terrible racist, the white South Africans, blah blah blah. The liberals recorded how they treked for days and days and days, sometimes weeks without seeing a living soul, but seeing tens of thousands of corpses and skeletons and so on scattered all over the show. So that's by way
of giving some background to the mineral question. In the eighteen sixties and eighteen eighties, golden diamonds were discovered, the largest load of or resource, if you like, of diamonds in the world. And then, certainly and until today the US United States Geological Survey claims on its website until today that the largest gold resources in the world, over fifty percent, not just the largest, but over fifty percent of all of the world's gold resources until today, reside
in South African soil. So along come the whites. They go into this very depopulated country. They set up these boyer republics. They leave the black people to their own devices, that is to say, you've got your place, no problem, we all settle over here. This was a very well known thing. There was very little pushing out or anything of that nature. If you're there, considering that you're very few and we're very few, well everything should be okay.
And then the whites discovered the minerals and of course, to this day it causes enormous resentment because there is the perception among black people that if you hadn't held us back, you know, we were surging forward. We were on the very verge of breaks through out of the Stone Age into the Space Age or whatever. If you hadn't discovered those mineral resources and exploited them for yourselves, well we would have found them, and we would have
built mind shafts and mines and what have you. But it's an argument that's not taken very seriously, not even by Black people. Hopelessly unrealistic argument. So yes, it does cause tension and resentment and what have you, but it's not a terribly serious argument in pragmatic terms.
Well, if you're into the late eighteen hundreds, why don't you jump into the nineteen hundreds and bring.
Us up to.
What would have caused what is known as apartheid.
Well, the Bours formed excuse me, two republics. So the Burs are the white descendants of the first Dutch settlers intermingled with French Huguenots, that is to say, French protestants fleeing the revocation of the Edict of Nant. I won't get into all of the details, but for your religious listeners that may be relevant. Intermingled with demobili German Lutheran soldiers, so in other words, soldiers from the north of Germany following that various wars. I wanted to say that Eighty
Years War, but that was a bit before. So you had these three groups who came in in the sixteen hundreds and they intermarried and they formed a new breed of people, as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle of Sherlock Holmes fame described so very eloquently in his book on the World War. And they settled and they hung around Cape Town for a long time, from the mid sixteen hundreds
until the eighteen thirties. As I've already described to you, following the imposition of British laws upon the people of the colony, they decided to leave and they founded three new republics. We're going to leave the one on the one side, because it was almost immediately taken over by the British was a bit of a failure in that sense.
And the two well known republics were the Orange Free State and the Transvole, which by the way, is not its correct name, but it's the name that people might recognize. In eighteen fifty two and eighteen fifty four, eighteen fifty two, the Transvole and then ironically the lower portion, the first that was discovered only became a republic two years later. They became known as the Boer republics. Boer means farmer.
So these Dutch slash Hugenot Lutheran people, and they were characterized by their religion that the French and the Germans they were Huguenots. They were not French people. They were French Protestants fleeing the revocation of the Edict of Nant and the Germans were Lutheran Germans who'd been demobilized following certain European wars. They're looking for a place to go. These people formed this kind of proto nation. And when that those people went out to form these new republics,
all they really just ran away from British rule. They didn't know that they were going to form republics. They began to call themselves trakburen, which means pull farmers or itinerant farmers, and the name bur stuck so to this day. The Afrikana, the Afrikaans speaking people of South Africa, the very conservative, tough ones, the famous ones are referred to themselves as boors, which means farmers. It's people very closely attached to the land. It's quite almost a sensitive thing,
you know. There's a deep, deep dep thing of the soil is under our fingernails, and we don't clean it out from there. And those two republics declared independence in
eighteen fifty two and eighteen fifty four. Lo and behold gold was I mean, diamonds were discovered in the eighteen sixties in the one province, and so Queen Victoria bought that portion of that province for the South Africans who watched the same may not be aware that Kimberly and surrounding areas was once part of the Orange Free State. And then gold was discovered and the British invaded. It was a long series of pretexts and dramas and nonsense
and what have you. But the Boer War took place between eighteen ninety nine and nineteen oh one, and within a few months, the very very few months, many people don't know this, the British had practically won. They had won ninety percent of the war. Just a few holdouts, and I do mean just a few months. The balance of the two years was just a matter of a
few holdouts riding through the Felt endeavoring to escape. The British absolutely steamrolled the tiny, tiny bour force of about thirty odd thousand men, and in the process, as is well known, the British established not the first concentration camps in modern history, but certainly the second or third. And they starved to death something like thirty thousand Boer women and children, which was a fantastic proportion of the population.
And the British then that ends in nineteen oh one, nineteen oh two, but two thousand and I mean, I think at nineteen ten the British established complete rule over South Africa. It was broken up into four provinces and the British ruled from nineteen ten until nineteen sixty, and that was known as the Union of South Africa. The majority of the white people remained Afrikaans speaking, so in other words, the Afrikana bur people, and the minority of
whites in South Africa was the English speaking people. Yeah, the English speaking people. So there was this very dominant Buor folk, but they didn't have their own government. It was a British colony, and they brought in the a part of what later became known as the Aparthe eight Laws.
They didn't give the name A Part eight to those laws, but they were the ones the British who said, well, look, if we're going to be running this place, you know, the boys have been a bit slap dash about these things. They've been allowing the Blacks to settle wherever they want and occupy whatever land they wanted. There's been a very cozy relationship here. But we need to formalize things. We British colonizers, we don't play around when it comes to colonialism.
We need rules, strict lots of strict rules. And so they brought in the idea of blacks being able to travel on the same train, or only being able to travel on one compartment of a train, while the rest is, you know, one hundred people in one compartment whereas ten people in another six compartments. They're devoted to whites. They brought in the first group areas acts and so on and so forth. Which is not to say that conservative
white South Africans like myself abdicate all responsibility. That we say, all goodness me, we would never have been so brutal. It's the British who did that. That's not the point. What we're saying is we were advocates of a Part eight. However, don't make the mistake of believing that we came up
with the idea. It was in place for fifty one years before the South Africa became a republic, before we were no longer a colony of Great Britain and the South African Aparthe eight ended effectively in nineteen ninety two. I won't go into the details, but if you would prefer not to give me the benefit of the doubt, then let's say nineteen ninety four when the ANC formally
took over. So that means there was fifty one years of British colonial rule during which all of those laws were established by none all of them, and then a Part eight as people know it, as people blame us for, because they never blame the flaming British, do they ever a Part eight? Real aparties. It was not fifty one years, It was at most thirty three years, but actually a little bit lease. So I think that that's kind of a comprehensive answer to your question.
Pete well, I think a lot of people would like to know what life was like.
I mean, I don't I'm not asking your age.
I don't know if you were conscious of what was going on when apartheid was under way, but a lot of from everything that Western media would tell us, it was just basically oppression of blacks all day, every day and white Scots to live like kings and enslave them. And they make it seem like no white person in the country was working at the time. So can you talk a little bit about what conditions were actually like.
Relatively speaking? They were poor, relatively speaking, white people lived in well. For instance, I don't come from a wealthy family, not at all. My dad worked in a factory. He worked his way up to a senior position, but he was a tree worker and we were five kids, so there wasn't a lot of money. And I grew up during the seventies and eighties. I'm born in nineteen seventy one. I'm fifty two years old now, so I grew up in that period. Following the impositions of sanctions by the
world in the mid seventies. Beginning in the mid seventies, were now our rand value collapsed. So to give you a sense of perspective, a bigger partner dollar now costs a twenty ran. When I was a kid, a dollar cost fifty of our cents, so our rand currency was worth twice as much as the dollar. And then the sanctions were imposed and it was all broken and destroyed forever more and then exacerbated obviously when the ANC took over.
But we grew up in a house of a double story brick house on a sixteenth of an acre, five bedrooms, you know, that kind of standard, very comfortable Western European thing. You know, the kind of house you would like to you would statistically we're likely to grow up in as an American or a Canadian, or a middle class Australian, New Zealander or South Africa. And obviously white people are bigger part in. Black people didn't have that. Black people
didn't have the opportunity to obtain such wealth. The overwhelming majority lived in what were known as four rooms, the famous four rooms that were built by the apartheid government. And I'll tell you an interesting story. I was the project manager of a very very famous, probably the most
famous African National Congress conference ever. I was a what's known as a special projects projects manager, So things like opening ceremonies of the Olympics or the World I never did the Olympics, I'm just giving an example, or the closing ceremony of the World Cup of Football, or presidential inaugurations. That's what I did for an occupation for many years.
And at this very famous conference, very very big, huge, there was a riot among the ANC, the senior members of the ANC, the five thousand most senior members of the ANC. Within the venue, there wasn't a room big enough to hold the conference. A room in South Africa,
no indoor sports stadium, no nothing. And so a huge tent was rented on Germany and it was imported and this tent was erected for this enormous conference, five thousand most senior members plus others, five thousand, five hundred people in the room. I'm the project manager. I'm standing at the back, you know, making sure that everything's going well, that the audio visual is going well, the audio that
is that that da da da da. And this riot breaks up, people beating one another over the head with chairs and desks and what have you. And the guy next to me was a friend of mine, and he was a famous ANC activist. It was pure coincidence that he and I were in the role that we were in. We weren't there as anything but technicians as it were, of the event. And this guy's name is Mobi Mobi Mabaso. It means ugly. His mother called him ugly when he
was born. That's his real name. And knowing that besides being an audio visual gene, he was an ANC activist and a very good friend of mine, I was able to turn to him and say, what now, movie, what the flip is going on now? And he said to me, Simon, people are upset that in the By then the ANC had been in power for fourteen years, he said, and we took over the building of the houses. We started
building rubbish. So black people lived in these famous four room houses built by a Part eight, which were supposedly disgusting and disgraceful. But fourteen years later, the entire leadership of the African National Congress, five thousand people were beating one another over the head with desks and chairs and what are known as Gooseneck microphones over the inability of the African National Congress to deliver to black people a fraction of what white people had been able to deliver.
I think that my answer gives you a sense of perspective. Nobody's alleging that black people lived like kings. But what is a matter of fact is that black people in white in a part eight South Africa were afforded a standard of living by the state, by the state that was incomparable throughout Africa and certainly has not been compared in the intervening thirty years.
Simon, let me ask you. You mentioned that in nineteen ninety four the ANC took over. Was that an I assume that was an election, right?
Yeah. By the mid eighties it became clear that the South Africa's position was untenable. Now this is debatable and conservative white South Africans who watched this video might become very offended by what I'm about to say, but they must also understand that I have to I can't spend fifty fifteen hours on this interview, so I have to keep things simple and the best way to do that is to go for the general. So the general is this Universal sanctions and a twenty seven percent annual inflation
rate made South Africa's sustainability very difficult. And through a series of shenanigans and false moves and deceit and all sorts of devious things. In nineteen ninety the government presented White South Africa with a referendum, a beggar pardon sorry, a bigger parton in nineteen ninety the government released Nelson Mandela under phenomenal pressure February nineteen ninety. Then in nineteen ninety two, the government asked White South Africa to vote
on continuing negotiations with the African National Congress. So there was a sticking point, a real impasse at that time. Conservative White South Africa were saying how dare you betray us? And liberal White South Africa were saying, well, you've got to do more. And there was a lot of agitation within the country, a lot of violence, political murders, Winnie
Mandela and her necklacing. It was a difficult, difficult time, and White South Africans, allegedly whether the vote or the results were true or not is another matter, allegedly voted just over two thirds yes, please continue negotiations with the African National Congress so that we can hold free and fair, multi racial, universal plebisite elections and we can get back to playing rugby with the rest of the world, and international cricket and free trade and so on and so forth,
and investment. We want McCain's vegetables to appear on our super mar shells. We want Burger king to appear in South afrik so on and so forth. So yes, nineteen ninety Nelson mandelas released nineteen ninety two, this huge seminal rubicon crossing of the rubicon moment election is held. And then in nineteen ninety four, on the twenty seventh of April nineteen ninety four, the first multiracial election was held. It was won by the African National Congress under the leadership of Nelson Mandela.
What happened after that.
Well, the A and C took over and they were given arguably the greatest benefit of the doubt of any ruling party in government in the history of the world. They could do no wrong. The African National Congress has spent thirty years one of the world's gems. Now to some people, that makes no difference. Some people will say to you, well, it doesn't matter. Freedom and equality and justice are all that count. And those were not present
during A Part eight, not for the majority the black majority. Therefore, it doesn't matter. The ANC remains legitimate. The entire process is a legitimate. The New South Africa, or the Rainbow Nation as it's called, is legitimate. Fine, no problem, it's okay. We're not going down that road here. I'm just going to tell you that whether a Part eight was good or bad, whether the New South Africa is good or bad,
it's a catastrophe of the first class. And I'll give you some illustrations at the times prior to and after. We keep it simple. Prior to nineteen ninety four, South Africa produced more than double the electricity produced by all of the rest of the now fifty four countries of Africa, so one versus fifty three. But at the time there weren't fifty four countries. I think there were fifty two, so it was one versus fifty one. So one country produced more than double all of the electricity that the
other fifty one put together were able to produce. South Africa produced more than double the potable water that the other fifty one countries of Africa were able to produce. South Africa's standards of education for black people were country miles ahead of the majority of African countries, the aparthe government provide. I did the famous four room houses to all black families. The four room houses that I've already
described to you. Chris Hahni Baragwanath Hospital in Soweto is or was, i should say, the largest hospital in the world for decades and decades and decades. So there were many features of a party that were far more beneficial to Black Africans than freedom. Democracy, love, peace and the wind blowing through your hair are to them now, and
I'll give you a few illustrations of the negatives. In the week prior to my departure for the USA, the daily rotational blackouts, every man, woman and child in the country has the same, but it's staggered forty five minutes for my suburb, then an hour and a half for yours, then two and a half hour for the next cup. The national blackouts were nine and a half hours a day no electricity, and in the previous week to that
they were eleven and a half hours a day. Now, imagine trying to use a cell phone, use the internet, run a machine shop, run a beauty parlor, run a dollar store. Imagine trying to do schooling, education, imagine trying to run a hospital with out electricity. It's too much for your mind, Pete. It really is that bad. The economy of Africa is absolutely dominated. And if anybody would like to now take advantage of this opportunity to pull up a map of Africa while I'm waffling, they can
do so very easily. Just type into Google or open Google Earth. If you pull up a map of Africa, zoom in to the bottom and hopefully you will be able to identify the province of kW Teng. kW Teng is a teeny tiny little province in South Africa, miniature and it produces almost one fifth of the GDP of all of Africa to this day. Now imagine being the province of kW Teng and the African National Congress says, we and Africa really need you keep going, boy, but
we can't give you electricity. It's a flaming joke, Pete. That is African National Congress rule. It is Africanist rule. It's the rule of inability, the rule of incompetence, the rule of lack, the rule of failure, the rule of poor, poor, weak, inferior, eleven and a half hours a day and not three decades ago, South Africa was producing more than double the electricity of all of the other countries of Africa put together. That's African National Congress rule for you. Pete.
Is it incompetence or is it punishment or is it both?
I would say that it's both. I would say that the punishment or the spitefulness has got a lot to do with the global elites. So, at the risk of saying something that becomes mystical, and you know your audience finds annoying, I think that by now any thoughtful person has figured out for themselves that the COVID pandemic and the clot shot program and many other things that occur in the world are not do not occur at the behest of the putative leaders. Joe Biden is not Joe
Biden's boss. And the list goes on that there is some kind of a ruling elite. Is at the Rothschilds, Is it the Rockefellers? Is it that we do? But what we do know is that the African National Congress is a communist party. We know that communism is derived from tumundism. This is not you. Nobody knows it because nobody likes to read.
I know a lot of the listeners know it right.
Cole Marx wrote extensively about how the first role of communism was to destroy I'm referring now specifically to his writings and the fourth critique of Hegel on this subject, how the first and primary role of communism is to destroy God in his manifestation on earth, which is the Christian family. And so we know these things. So I believe that the African National Congress is a tool for destroying the very very conservative, very Christian African abour falk.
But I believe that they've been chosen suitably. You know. It's one thing for me to choose as my chosen instrument to saw a piece of wood a teaspoon. It's another thing for me to choose, for the purposes of sawing a piece of wood a wood saw, or even a hack saw, or even for that matter, a chisel to do some kind of piercing, penetrating a job on
a piece of wood. I would say to you that the African National Congress, by virtue of its inherent antipathy for labor, for industriousness, for productivity, for study, as the great South African super liberal scholar Jimmy. What is his name? Oh, dear me, Simon. I'll think of his name in a minute. As he said in a speech a few years ago, the reality is that there is an absence of a
culture of learning in in black South Africa. He was just saying it like it is, even though he's a super liberal guy, and somebody had to sooner or later. So I think that what global communism did, what the elites did, what it's the rothschilds or that is say in South Africa, we want these people to be destroyed by those people. How do we go about it? And somebody said, well, let's play to the strengths of those people. We know that they that they hate industriousness and productivity,
We know that they are extremely vindictive people. Let us allow them to use those particular qualities to employ those particular qualities. If they were a hammer, let them hammer rather than saw, or rather than use them to eat yogurt, lit them hemma the hammers. And I think that's what we're seeing playing out in South Africa now, as so
much collapses. Education system collapsed, railway system absolutely collapsed, electricity system completely collapsed, the government's administration system very much collapsed. We've seen play out the natural extension of exploiting the inherent qualities of the African National Congress as a communist party in taking over the New South Africa or in creating, if you like, the New South Africa Rainbow Nation.
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That's join crowdhealth dot com code pete q. A couple of years ago, in twenty twenty one, video was coming out of South Africa showing incredible violence shopping malls being destroyed, well, gunfights, I mean firefights in the streets. What happened then? Can what can you describe it as happening?
Then?
What caused that?
Well? I should first point out to you that it has since come out in numerous liberal media that those events are regarded by those in the know as a rehearsal for revolution, and people who are interested in the subject are welcome to look up the following search term as one of me any examples the Daily Maverick July Riots twenty twenty one rehearsal for revolution. There's a numerous special reports on the subject, tremendous evidence for the fact that it was really, when all is said and done,
a covert rehearsal for a later revolution. But ostensibly, on the surface of it, it was a matter of the former president Jacob Zumer having to go to jail, and him refusing to go to jail, and him being kind of semi forced, and eventually in going to jail, it caused his supporters to go berserk, and for I think it was eight nights. I think it was the sixth to the fourteenth, if I remember correctly, eighth to the sixteenth. Anyway,
I believe it was eight nights of rioting occurred. You know, people Zulu people were very unhappy that the first Zulu president of South Africa, the Zulus being well being the largest ethnic group of South Africa, very unhappy that the poor man had to go to jail for his many and many, many, many and various crimes ranging from admitted rape to well everything else under the sun. So they went on this rampage and they looted and pillaged and marauded and burned and so on and destroyed what in
South African terms. I'm not going to even attempt to convert, you know, give an exchange rate, because it's misleading. If I said it was ten billion dollars worth of damaged, people would sy, oh, it's only ten billion dollars. In South Africa terms, that means everything. So it just destroyed a lot, and there was a lot of violence not only that took place that I'm describing to, but that
came out of it. So what happened was that the black people went on the rampage and the Indian We have the largest population of Indians from India outside of India in the world. When I say we that province the surrounds. It's where I grew up. So I grew up knowing and seeing, regardless of aparte, just who was there, who was in the street, who was whatever behind the counter. Far more Indian people than black people there. The Indian people outnumber the Zulu people the black people in that
immediate vicinity around those cities. And as the riots grew or picked up pace, the perpetrators became emboldened and they began to enter white and Indian neighborhoods. So the neighborhoods from apart eight days have obviously changed tremendously. It's nothing like it used to be, but you still have these kind of you know, this is traditionally where the Indian people were obliged by law to live. That's traditionally where
the black people were obliged by law to live. That is traditionally where the colored people, that is to say, the mixed race people who insist upon being called colored, where the colored people lived, and the whites and so on, and so these Zulus began to enter these areas, and the whites and the Indians began to form sort of vigilante defense committees, and they killed many, many, many, many many black people, which upset the African National Congress no end.
The reasoning of the African National Congress was, if a thousand people approach your suburb to rape your wife into to plunder your house, your first resort should not be to shoot them dead. It should be to give way.
And who knows what, I don't think you know, anybody in the African National Congress has ever explained exactly how the matter should have been handled, but it has since become a matter of huge racial tension, enormous racial tension between particularly the Indians and the black people, to a lesser extent, the whites and the Blacks, most particularly the Indians. There's a level of hatred that now exists between those two racial population groups. Yes, but we're talking at more
localized levels. So let's call them those two racial communities that has historically probably never existed because the Indians stood up for themselves and said this far and no further, you're not coming over my garden wall. Excuse my language. I beg your pardon, Pete.
So when we were talking on the phone the other day, you made it very clear to me that with everything you had described in the beginning, why don't you give here, let's do this. Why don't you give an overview of what you were talking about as far as the Geneva convention, and it's basically its preparation for what you.
Know is going to happen in the future.
Firstly, let me quickly say that the elderly liberal and very famous Oxford Oxford University scholar to whom I was referring earlier, whom I was quoting earlier, is our W. R. W. Johnson. Yes, Following World War Two, the Geneva or not the a Geneva Conventions. There are a number of Geneva Conventions that extend back to the eighteen hundreds, but the most recent iteration of the Geneva Conventions was drafted to govern the
prosecution of war. So the nations of the world came together and said, look, we had the First World War, and there was that chlorine gas must have gased that wasn't very nice. And now we've had the Second World War in Collie g some of the things that happened a little bit on the nasty side. Perhaps we should write some treaties, some laws to ensure that we're not quite so horrible to one another next time round. And so in nineteen forty nine the Geneva Conventions of nineteen
forty nine were ratified. Fast forward twenty eight years, and by nineteen seventy seven it had been recognized that there were a number of meaningful loopholes in the Geneva Conventions of nineteen forty nine, So the Protocols Additional Protocols one, two, and three are known as the Protocols Additional of nineteen seventy seven to the Geneva Conventions of nineteen forty nine were ratified, and those three protocols pay attention particularly to
the circumstances of civilians in conflict. So they addressed many, many, many, many many features of what parties what they call parties to a conflict may and may not do, with particular reference to civilians, to non parties to a conflict. And we sat Lunders have constituted ourselves under those provisions of the protocols. Additional to the Geneva Conventions, one of the
things that they provide for is for identifiable ethnic groups. Now, identifiable ethnic group doesn't mean that, you know, if I'm if I'm black, or if I'm very black, or if I'm not, if I'm like black, or whatever it means. It means more than just that. It means language and culture and religion and profession. What do I profess to be. I'm a Muslim speak Bosnian with which is a South Slavic language, and I say I'm a Bosnian because of art.
That's who I am. That's the identification of me. Identifiable ethnic groups are permitted to pursue the preparations for the erection of national emergency plans or emergency plans for their people in the event I'm just going to shift a lamp that's burning my eyes in the event of international and non international conflict. But there's one strict proviso, and that is that those parties have to become or those actors, let's say those actors have to become non parties to
a conflict. So if there was a civil war in South Africa, civil war broke out tomorrow, Sat London's would say, we don't want to be a part of this. Otherwise we're going to lose the iegis the protection of international law and heard a nice national emergency plan for ourselves. So we're going to withdraw from the conflict and establish a safe zone, erect a perimeter, a defended a defensible and defended perimeter that's perfectly legal, but not be proactive,
not be a protagonist in the conflict whatsoever. We will merely defend this perimeter and as I've already said, become a non party to the conflict. And that's the gist of it. The Geneva Conventions, the protocols additional the provisions for identifiable ethnic groups to prepare for a conflict, and then how they must act. What is the nature of that protection? What does it mean? It means that I must withdraw from the conflict, I must be a non
party to it. But it also means that I can establish a safe area and defend it.
Simon, when we talked the other day, you you made it very clear that you you didn't have a white pill for me. You you made it clear that you think that what's going to happen in South Africa is going to be the absolute worst possible thing that could happen, and that is civil war, violence and murder, everything that comes along with it. So why don't you tell everybody why you think there is no there's no saving it, there's no getting past that.
Well, at the risk of answering, you in an evasive man, I don't think that Demons is going to be evasive in the end at all. But I'll begin by saying this. When I told you this to in twenty nineteen, I was the main speaker at the annual party of a prominent organization in the USA, the annual Birthday party, and I fell very ill the day before, and I was so ill that I couldn't read the speech I'd written,
couldn't focus my eyes on the page. And so I walked up on stage and I said, well, here's my speech, and I showed to them, all written out in Longhand as I like to do, and I said, but I can't focus my eyes on the page. Hang over. Sorry, I'm just going to stand here. I'm going to ramble and waffle for a bit and then I'm going to
have to leave. I'm sorry, I'm very very ill. And so I just started talking about this, that and the next thing, and at some point I said, what is clear is that violence, widespread violence, will break out in the USA in the very near future. After the speech, I was invited up to somebody's hotel room. The event took place in a hotel, and this very distinguished gentleman said, why don't you come up and have a chat with me and my friend. I said, oh, what a privilege,
what a lovely invitation. And I went up and here and his friend were chatting, and I sat and listened to their wise words. And at some point the friend, again a very very distinguished gentleman, looked up at me from under his eyebrows like that and told me how he was, how offended he was, or how much he disagreed anyway with my allegation that there would be widespread violence in the USA in the foreseeable future. Three months later,
the Portland Riots broke out. Five people from this audience. After the Portland Riot broke out three months later, they sent me messages saying, how my name is fred I was in the audience, blah blah blah. I got your number from Joe Hope. You don't mind me sending you a message? How did you know? We're not gurus, we don't have some special gift pet But we've kind of watched this movie before, and we know how society breaks up. We know how society fractures, how schisms form overnight in society.
And it was apparent to me, having spent a lot of time in the USA in twenty seventeen, eighteen, and nineteen, that there were certain levels of tension that were absolutely irremediable, They couldn't be remedied. And they were at one another. They were at one another in the newspapers, and they were at one another. Given a speech a few months before in Tennessee at which there were three hundred protesters going berserk, all these best swimming I'm sorry to say.
I mean, you know, God made them far be it from me, but not only a beast generally ugly with purple hair and rings through their eyeballs and who knows where else screamy shut here. And one guy standing next to me there was a police court, a huge police cordon that one guy standing next to me said, you know that they're here for you, don't you know? I looked at it in astonishment. You're joking, said yeah, yeah, yeah, he said. The other speakers, you know they wouldn't be here.
The point is that we when there's that level of hatred, the three hundred people come to a hotel to throw bricks and glass bottles and two wallow in their filthy obesity and before your very eyes to prove a point. It's it's difficult to turn the clock backwards. It's difficult for that thing to kind of go away. What tends to happen is that it matures and festers and eventually begins to suppurate, like an over developed boil or not to be common, but it's some kind of pimple that
hasn't been attended as it should have been. It doesn't just magically disappear, and we believe the same of South Africa. We believe that the degree and the extent of the crisis in South Africa now is such that it can't be fixed. In twenty sixteen, Tuesday, Tuesday, the sixth of November, if I'm not mistaken, maybe no, maybe perhaps it was a Thursday. I'll forget. The leader of our Marxist political party, Julius Malema, famously said I'm not calling for the thought
of all whites, at least for now. I think that was verbate and what he said, and he's repeated that many times since. And at the thirteenth birthday celebrations of that political party, the Economic Freedom Fighters this year in the famous FNB Stadium in Soweto, Johannesburg, before one hundred thousand people. And there's a reason why I, as a longtime projects manager for very huge events, can tell you with some authority that the number was almost certainly one
hundred thousand people. Before one hundred thousand people sang the song kill the Farmer, Kill the Boer for the umpteenth time.
It's highly provocative and on the second of June of this year, our President, while speaking as the guest of honor or the main speaker at the annual conference of the African National Congress Youth League said, it may be that in the near future we are not able to hold on to power, and we will require you to become the militant youth, such as the Youth League, the youth of the African National Congress of the fifties, sixty
seventies and eighties. And he went on, and what he was saying is that our polling figures for next year's elections, there will be an election on roughly the twenty seventh of April next year. The precise date is not yet appointed.
If we've what he was alluding to is the fact that in recent months has come out at the ANC for the first time has ever has significantly less than fifty percent of the vote, perhaps as low as thirty five, thirty six percent or will get You're saying that if we do not win the elections, we're going to have a proper revolution his words, not mine. In other words, a real, actual, violent Marxist Leninist revolution. And we sat Landers believe that that has been that writing has been
on the wall since forever. The fact that the mainstream media can only see it now and report it now. And the fact that academia is only now obliged by the latency of it, the conspicuousness of it, the undeniability of it. To acknowledge it doesn't mean that it hasn't been there. It has been there since forever.
It was always just a matter of time before the New South Africa Rainbow Nation.
Became very much less tenable than the world believed and proclaimed it to be in the late eighties, the early
nineties and nineteen ninety four. In the late eighties and early nineties, you will remember all across the world there was a chorus of praise for how wonderful Nelson Mandela was, and how great an anc government would be, and how the wind would blow better, and our hair would blow better in the wind, and the daisies would smell nicer, and the money would grow on the trees more abundantly, and these, you know, hopelessly unrealistic superlatives that were used
to describe the idol, the idyll that would be the new South Africa Rainbow Nation. And for a long time, people like myself and our leader, mister Gustaf Mala, the founder of our organization. I'm merely his employee have said, you know what, this is not right, is not right. You know, the murder rate in the USA is roughly five per one hundred thousand per year. Five people of every one hundred thousand are killed in intentional homicide, as the United Nations calls it. Every year. In South Africa
it's thirty nine thirty eight point something. The USA is supposed to be this gun mad, blood lusting society. You guys haven't a clue. In fact, you don't try very hard at all. Your desire to butcher somebody and drink their blood, your desire to cut open a woman, or to murder a child, or to savagely slaughter an elderly person, is I would say, decidedly tepid. You are lukewarm, Pete.
And it seems to me that you're given a great deal of credit for something that you're not actually doing, and you should perhaps make a little bit more effort if you wish to deserve the credit that you have in the whole effing world for being the most bloodthirsty
people ever born. Going by the amount of attention that is given to the USA and every shooting and every murder and every FBI file and the top ten wanted and all these stupid programs that you thrust down the throats of national broadcasters all around the entire world that we all have to watch your crap. You should put in a little bit more effort, because it seems that your your claim to fame is very much exaggerated. On the other hand, know a thing or two about murder, rape,
the butchery of children and so on. And you know, I'm being facetious and sarcastic now, and it's not very classy of me, but that's that's the way that it is.
You know, we hear people waffling on and on about the ANC and I mean a bigger part of the USA and the Second Amendment and all of this crap, and we think to ourselves, you have in a flipping clue, come come to the country that you insisted was going to be the bit because it was principally American politicians above all others, and American media that really like feeding a goose, force feeding a goose to make pate fois gras, that force fed the world the narrative of the unimpeachable
and impeccable nature of the of the African National Congress and the fourth coming New South Africa Rainbow Nation, New South Africa Rainbow Nation years. So come and have a look, and then you tell.
Me, well, you had mentioned that you believe that the twenty twenty one violence which took it's recorded three hundred and fifty four deaths in those riots. Our riots in twenty twenty took ten percent of that. I would say that if they are gearing up for that kind of revolution in this country, we're probably looking for something similar to what you experienced in twenty twenty one before the whole big thing kicks off.
If they try.
I mean it's a little harder. I think it's a little harder here because the country's so big and it's so spread out. We have federalism, a lot of states have different laws things like that. But it does look like that there could be full sections of the country that could fall into exactly what you what you described, and even worse than what you're expecting in the future.
Yeah, there's no question about it. The you can't reconcile the United States of America to itself. The inherent contradictions are just so great that there's no fixing what you have now, Pete. I'm not saying that the United States is going to evolve into civil war the day after tomorrow. And even if I was saying that, I would I would say the United States is going to devolve into civil war the day after tomorrow. But I don't think
it's going to be bad, you know. So I'm not saying that it's going to be it's going to happen soon, or even that it's going to be the worst of the worst of the worst. But I am saying that as time goes by, this crisis of of self hatred, for want of a better expression, I'll try to think of a better phrase, shall become more and more and more intractable. It will become more and more difficult to turn the clock back to the day before the Roe
versus Wade decision in nineteen seventy two. It will become more and more difficult to turn the clock back to the day before the series of legal decisions in US courts of the late eighties and early nineties that have set the precedent for the divorce laws that obtain in the USA. Now, it will become more and more difficult for you to turn the clock back to the days before blatant lesbian, gay whatever you lg X y Z, whatever it is called being almost or in some cases
foisted upon children. That is not going to happen. Real life, in the real world doesn't work like that. So the likelihood is that this schism will continue, will continue to rupture, and in so doing rupture more severely, and eventually it's going to lead to a major event in the USA. And I'm not qualified. I'm not clairvoyant, you know, so I'm not qualified to say exactly what is but what it is. But let me put it to you this way. The US national debt seven years ago two thousand and
twenty three minus seven will be two sixteen. The US national debt was nineteen point eight trillion dollars, so between
seventeen seventy six. I know that Americans celebrate the fourth of July, but the last signatory, the last signatures to the document were in October of seventeen seventy six, So from October seventeen seventy six, when the Republic was properly implemented, until two thy and sixteen, through World wars, through civil wars, through everything, the USA was only able to rack up a debt of nineteen point of nineteen point eight trillion
dollars in seven years. You've taken that to over thirty three trillion dollars, So fourteen trillion dollars versus nineteen trillion dollars in seven years versus seventeen seventy six to twenty four, so two hundred and twenty four and sixteen would be two hundred and forty years. Two hundred and forty years
versus beat. It's bad and Americans can't see it. And I suspect that's what's going to happen, is that somebody of a conservative bent is going to say that the madness that reigns in the White House now, or in US government, or in the Treasury, if you like, or in the Federal Reserve, or in whatever point your finger at whichever blemish, whichever flaw on me appeals to you the most. If I'm the body corporate of the United States of America, you know what thing do you hate
the most? Point your finger that that is enough to justify something absolutely radical and drastic. I'm not saying that there's going to be a coup uitar. I am saying that at some point, somebody's going to say, well, it's now been you know, since twenty sixteen. It's now been let's say, not seven years, it's ten years. And the debt has gone from nineteen point eight trillion dollars to sixty four whatever number. You know. Now a coup is warranted. Now the setting off of a bomb is warranted. Now
we can get drastic and radical. What I'm saying without trying to be overly specific, because I don't I'm not clever. Where is that things can't deteriorate this drastically, this radically as they have, as we've all witnessed over recent years, without sooner or later there being some kind of a huge reaction, some real pushback, And because the positions are so irreconciled, it's going to precipitate a terminal crisis. So let's say my wife and I I'm not married. I am,
to my eternal regret, a bachelor. But let's say I was married and my wife and I had an ongoing dispute, and let's say I was goading her, antagonizing her, giving her a hard time, and eventually one day she turns around and she does something all right, that's one thing. She loses her temperature, gets it. But just imagine that I'd done something that had betrayed her trust forever and ever and ever and ever, and in that context I
was needling her and she retaliated. She would probably retaliate with her and maybe stab me or cyanide or you know, in my sleep, shoot me or something. You know, what I'm saying is that it's one thing to have a schism. It's another thing when the two parties cannot in any way be reconciled. Because you cannot reconcile LGBTQ two core
America to the core values of America. You cannot reconcile a thirty three trillion dollar debt to the traditional pecuniousness that the traditional economical very wise with money nature of US government. You cannot reconcile. The parties are just so far out from one another that when they do clash, they are going to clash in a terminal manner. And I think that that's now absolutely inevitable. You can't fix you can't fix the stolen election of twenty twenty. You
can't fix these the biolabs in Eastern Ukraine. You can't undo that. You can't undo COVID and the clot shots and the adversary actions. You can't undo the assault on God. You can't undo. Would you believe me? I read a figure? In fact, I went through the table of figures, the official figures today before this interview, just for no particular reason.
Would you believe me if I told you that the number of immigrants illegal immigrants only to the USA in this year alone is greater than the populations of thirty nine of the fifty states of the USA. It's unfixable, Pete. Don't fix that. You don't get to fix that.
Yeah, well, tell everybody where they can, remind everybody where they can find more about your work and whatever what anybody can do.
Oh, thank you very much, Pete, thank you for having sat Lunders on your show. We appreciate the opportunity. I hope that the video is well watched. Please send me a link and I'll distribute it in South Africa. Although I should forewarn you that the overwhelming majority of our people do not speak English, well it's not their first language, so that the audience is not big for English products.
People are welcome to visit satlanders dot org. That's s U I d Landers dot org and if they would like to make a contribution, if they'd like to assist us in the work that we're doing. We are really standing in the breach. We are boxing above our wait. We are standard bearers worldwide for the conservative Caucasian Christian cause.
You can look up the speech that I gave in the European Parliament and many other many, many hundreds of other interviews Alex Jones, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, BBC, CNN Russia Today to see the work that we're doing. And if that impresses you, please be so kind as to make a donation Satlanders dot org. Do you just enter there and go to the bottom of the page. You'll see where you can make a donation. Thank you
very much for watching this video. I hope that I wasn't too long winded, and I hope that you thoroughly enjoyed it. And thank you too, Pete very.
Much, no prom ad all. Thank you, and I'll make sure to link to that in the show notes so people can get to it very easily.
Thank you, Samon, Thank you
