Welcome to part two of The Path Went Chili. As we continue to discuss the unsolved disappearance of Antonette Kayadito. So let's dive right in and start talking about it again. So one person who was now looked at as a potential suspect is a guy named Emiliano Gardella and he went by the nickname Imo. So the story goes is that on the night before Antonette went missing, Penny
was planning to go out to the bar. She had hired a babysitter to watch over her children, and then Emo just suddenly showed up at the residence and brought Antonette flowers a gift and had Antonette sit on his lap while Penny was gone from the room. And according to Sadie A, Penny did not mention this that Emo had stop by her house until about four days after Antonette originally went missing. She didn't willingly go forward and tell the police about him.
They only found out when another family member just casually mentioned it in a conversation, saying something like, oh, Emo was at the house that night, And then they said, Penny, who's this Emo guy? Why didn't you tell us about it before? And that's when she finally told the full story. There were apparently other witnesses who were in the house that night who said that Emo brought flowers and that they found the whole thing pretty weird.
And apparently like Penny knew Emo because they both had a mutual friend named Ron Perry, who was apparently one of Penny's best friends. And this was not the first time Emo had been at the house, but on the previous occasions, Emo had only been there with Ron Perry, but on this particular night, it was the very first time that he had ever shown up alone.
And what's weird is that he gave Antonette flowers and a bear, And after Antonette disappeared, Penny apparently set up a shrine in the house in her memory and had the same barre necklace on display as an ornament on the shrine. And a lot of people, once they hear this story, are having major red flags about Emo and are thinking, why would you take this gift that this guy brought you and put it on a shrine for your daughter. That's
so weird. So he brought this gift that night, or he brought this gift a previous night, well technically it was the night before Antonette went missing. She went missing in the early morning hours, and he apparently showed up at night when Penny was going out at the bar. But basically like it would have been within a twelve hour period type of a deal exactly, so he would have come over given that gift. And so if she had that gift, I guess, I mean, if she wasn't wearing it, it
would have been left behind. But I think it's a little bit odd to pick a gift even if she wasn't where it didn't have the bear, and put these items aside, and then she was taken. Why would you put items that weren't even really hers. It's not like you saw her walking around
wearing this necklace carrying this bear for years. I feel like you would pick items that have a little more sentimentality to them, like sentimental value, something that you'd seen your daughter carry her favorite stuff, toy, her favorite blanket, anything like whatever it was. Did she like to wear a mood ring? Did you have a favorite like sweatshirt? They were representative of her?
Are these new items that have been given representative of her? It all feels a little beard and this emo guy seems a little bit strange, Yeah, exactly. Like apparently the other witnesses who saw him just thought it was kind of inappropriate that he's taking Antonette and having him sit on her knee. And if one interpretation is that if Penny knew that Emo was the person who took her daughter or she willingly gave her away, then maybe she was keeping this
bear necklace around as kind of a reminder about what she did. But they found the whole situation to be quite odd. Emo was apparently questioned by a law enforcement and given a polygraph, but the results have never been disclosed publicly.
But what's also interesting is that Emo apparently never showed up at the house again after Antonette went missing, which in itself might not be unusual, but this other guy who was Emo's friend who introduced him to Penny ron Perry, he also apparently never showed up at Penny's house again after Antonette went missing, even though he previously had been around there all the time. That's really sketchy.
It feels like there's some kind of collusion there. I mean, I guess you could look at it in this situation like that and be like, they're two men who don't know how to handle grief, and they don't know how to come into a situation where somebody's feelings and their emotions are just so raw. There's some people that don't know how to deal with that. But I feel like if that was the case, then Ron would basically, you
know, wait a couple months and then come around. Because if it it was somewhere that you spent a great deal of time and you were close with Penny, close with the girls, what would keep you away in a tragedy like that. I mean, if you had some type of involvement, that would make sense for sure. And this Emo guy is just like creepaf like, come sit on my knee, little girl. Oh, and then she goes missing and then he's just never around again. It just seems to be
all the red flags coming up for these two. Was there some kind of collusion, Was there a payment made, Was there just some kind of other exchange made. I don't know. It just seems so sketchy, and it just makes me feel really uncomfortable exactly. Yeah, So my mind was blown when I heard this. It's like, Wow, these guys were like really suspicious right from the get go. You get the sense that Emo may have been involved, and that even if Ronald Well it wasn't personally involved, he
may have knowledge about what happened. But this is the first time their names were ever released publicly. So now we're going to talk about Sadie's new revelations, and she gave a completely different story than the one that was reported back in nineteen eighty six when she was seven years old. I previously said that when Penny returned home from the bar and sent them maybe sit her home, she spent the next three hours playing with all the kids, and then they
went to bed together in the same bedroom at around three am. Well, now Sadie is saying that when Penny came home, she sent her and Wendy to bed at around midnight, but instead she let Antonette stay up so that they could play cards together, which Sadie said was very unusual that even though Antonette was the oldest child, it seemed kind of odd that her mother would want to play cards sometime after midnight after being out drinking at a bar.
Sadie also says that shortly after being put to bed, a man started knocking on the door. Not someone claiming to be Uncle Joe, but just another man who was asking Penny to let him in, and that Penny just told the kids to ignore him and then this man would go away. Apparently, they eventually tracked this man down and found it it was a guy named Roger,
whom Penny had been out at the bar with earlier that night. Apparently they had gotten into an argument more there, and Roger was pretty drunk at the time, so he showed up to the house in the middle of the night started knocking on the door and window asking for Penny, but when no
one answered, he left. They did to question Roger at the time, and he claimed that after he left Penny's residence, he went to spend the night at a friend's house, and the friend backed up his version of events, gave him an alibi, and confirmed that he was there all night. So it seems unlikely that Roger was involved in Antonette's disappearance. He was pretty
much cleared as a suspect. But this is another weird variation of this story where we have this man knocking at the door in the middle of the night, but it's not someone claiming to be Uncle Joe. There's no version of this story where Antonette is answering the door so it's just kind of this weird mixture of reality and fantasy where it's kind of similar to the other stories we've heard, but not quite So now you really have no idea what the full
truth is. I'm confused. I mean, it's possible. If it is the case, I feel really bad for these girls because it feels like they're in a really unsafe situation, which is all these random manner around all the time. It just feels yucky. But I'm a little confused as to the variation in the story. And what does Sadie say. Does she say that she embellished the earlier story or does she just somehow remember it differently now?
And are we supposed to rely on this different memory as being the correct memory even though so many years have passed and so many other things it could influence her memory have been there right, whether it be her mother, whether it be law enforcement, whether it be her sister, or any outside forces.
It just seems like I would rely on what was the most immediate memory unless she's saying I fabricated that for reasons A, B or C. Yeah, she has never flat out in a minute that she fabricated it, So it could be a thing that maybe it was reported on inaccurately, But her version of events is that back in nineteen eighty six, which was reported on the newspapers, as you recall, is that she woke up, She was woken
up by the sound of knocking. She followed Antonette to the door, and there was a man and woman outside saying that they were her aunt and uncle, but Antonette decided not to let them in. And now she's saying that she and then she said she heard a second knock on the door where Antonette left the bedroom, but she didn't see what happened. But at no point did Sadie ever say that anyone knocked at the door claiming to be Uncle Joe.
The only person who has ever provided that story was Wendy, but Sadie is now completely denying it. She says that I only heard one knock on the door that night. I don't have any memory of anyone showing up and claiming to be Uncle Joe. That Wendy is the sole source of that story, and this seems to be the version that she's sticking to, and she's
never really clarified why there's such discrepancies in her story. So it might be that back in nineteen eighty six, maybe her mother coached her to say certain things. Maybe, But I also think that our memories can shift and change over time. They're more fluid than we would like to think. We look back and go a lot wasn't an accurate memory. I mean, I'm just more inclined to think that the initial memory would be the correct memory because it
is so close after that event. And then as you become older, you're reading all this information about your sister's case, You're hearing about different statements. It's so easy to have that influence your memories without even knowing that it's doing
so. So I really have no idea what's the truth and what happened here, But I definitely think that Emo and Ron are like creepy af and that there seems to be a strong likelihood that they must have had something to do with this, because she goes missing after the creepy friend who never comes around again, who used to spend all the time there was there with his friend,
who comes over and like, what's the purpose you have? Some little girl comes sit on your knee and you bring her these gifts, Like she's a girl, a girlfriend that you're courting, it's a little bit weird unless your aiding Penny and you're trying to get in there with her daughters. But in that case, you would be spreading the leve around and not just focusing on Antonette exactly. And there's no indication that Penny and Emo were ever dating.
I don't think she really knew the guy all that well. She only knew him through Ron and in this one night, he just suddenly shows up there alone with gifts for Antonette. And you'd think that if Penny was just completely oblivious or just suspected anything about Emo, that when her daughter turned up missing, that would be the first person she pointed to when she spoke to the police, saying, this very weird guy was acting inappropriately around my daughter
the previous night. You should instantly look at him. Yet she never voluntarily submitted this information to the police. It was only three days later where another relative said in a conversation, what about that EMO guy who showed up that night, that Penny finally came clean and told the police about him. So it makes you wonder that if she had no knowledge about what happened to Penny, why was she not willingly sharing this information about Emo much earlier. That
is super suspicious. I mean, we've seen instances in different cases where over the years, people have done crazy things like trade their children for drugs. There is a potential in a situation like this that she may Petty, may have colluded with Emo. There may have been some kind of money or goods
that exchanged hands. Because I can come up with no other plausible explanation for if she had nothing to do with it, or if she didn't benefit from it in some way, how his name wouldn't have been the first name raised. That just puts up literally every red flag for me. I hate having to look at family members and I hate having to even entertain the possibility the Penny may in some way be responsible for what happened to Antonette. But this
is like the one thing that I just cannot let go of. Why would he not be the one person that you'd go he showed a special interest in my daughter, Now my daughter's gone. He was just there. Look at him hard. Well, brace yourself, because it's going to get even more fishes for Penny, and it's going to make the whole situation even more confusing, because once again we're going to get another version of events that supposedly took
place at the house that night. All right, let's go okay. So the original story from Penny is that she went to bed at three am and saw Antonette's sleeping, and then when she woke up four hours later, Antonette
was gone, and she had no idea what happened. It was not until nineteen ninety four when she was interviewed by the FBI, and then she suddenly changed her story, saying that at one point during the night she heard some knocking at the door and said that she actually told Antonette to go ahead and answer it. And her exact quote was, I laid there for a period of time, maybe thirty minutes, and Antonette never came back. I got
up to see where she was, but I couldn't find her. Of course, this doesn't make a lot of sense because this supposedly took place between like three and four am. She told the FBI that the knock came about thirty
minutes before it just started getting light outside. But as you well know, it's not going to get light between three and four or thirty am in New Mexico in April, So that just showed that she's just changing her story and cause some major red flags to go off in some alarm bells with the fai that she's not telling everything that she's supposed to. Yeah, she's failing a
polygraph with them first off, which we know polygraphs aren't always reliable. But when you look at the totality of evidence here and with Penny, we've got a shifting narrative. Yeah, I don't think the sun is coming up that early, And if it's happening between three and four, didn't you stay up until three? So I'm just a little bit confused with her timeline and by the fluidity of her story. It doesn't seem to be the same story.
It seems to be fictitious in the sense that if the story is true, if you're saying something that is based in fact, certain details might change. You may remember something else as you're telling it. But like I said earlier, the main story stays the same, and we aren't seeing that here exactly.
Even if it was, if this wasn't contradicting your previous story. A lot of the details she's sharing now seem pretty bizarre because she says I heard a knock in the middle of the night between three and four am, and instead of getting up to get the door myself, I tell my nine year old daughter to go see it is and she doesn't come back for thirty minutes, and I just lay there without getting suspicious, Like what kind of mother would do that? Yeah, it just sounds like total like bs, I
don't think that. I mean, you'd have to be pretty drunk or pretty hung over to tell your child to go get the door at that time, especially if you'd been drinking at the bar. It could be one of the people you were drinking with. You could be potentially putting your child in a very dangerous situation because anyone that's coming over at that time, what do they
want? Nothing good? You know, it's either an emergency or they want something like between the hours of what she's saying between three and four, So, I mean, what do they want? Do they want to drink with you? Or are they looking for something else so they're looking for some physical contact. Either way, you could be putting your child in the path of
harm and you just don't even think to go check on her. After like a minute, she goes to get the door, there's a knock, and then nothing for thirty minutes, you just all like lasadaisical, laying in bed,
just chill. I just don't think this sounds like a real scenario, unless it was a scenario that you had set up yourself and you were like, Okay, this is the way that it's going to play out, not realizing how suspicious it sounds to anybody that you would send your nine year old daughter to get the door and then not check on her when she doesn't return exactly, and rest assured the FBI agents who heard this story had the same
suspicions you did and pretty much gave off the same reaction. So as you can imagine, they started pushing her more, interrogating her hard, and apparently at one point the FBI told her we have information that you were directly involved, even though they were probably bluffing her. But then Penny responded by saying the words quote, what if I told you Emo and I did this,
would we both go to prison? And then she apparently made like a confession where she said that she and Emo got together on a plan and advised Emo and Ron that Antonette was going to be a problem and that she wanted to
get rid of her and maybe make a better life for and he. Apparently she advised Emo that he would be the person to take Antonette away, and apparently, like a Penny said that she tried to ask Ron about this, what are they going to take or what's going to happen for and Ron responded,
it's better you do not know. So this was a major WTF moment when Crystal Gautiera's got these FBI files because apparently Penny is flat out confessing that she gave her daughter away to Emo, hoping that she would do it to give her a better life, and for some reason this wasn't acted upon and Penny was not charged with the crime. I'm literally pulling my hair right now.
Like credit goes for credit, it's due. Good for you, Crystal if you're listening to this, because wow, that is some incendiary information. My mind is blown to think that Penny could be looked at as a suspect because she literally gave a confession saying that her and Emo were involved. But what doesn't ring true for me is her saying that Antonette's going to be a problem. I want to get rid of her. I just can't believe that you're going to get rid of your eldest child who does all this work for
you. She's basically like a second mother to your younger daughters, and you're going to get rid of her for no monetary gain. I personally think in that situation, the one puzzle piece that seems to be missing is something that would benefit Penny exactly like it could have been thing that she got money for it. She could have gotten drugs and alcohol. I mean, if the story about her get driving the new sports car is true, then maybe she
used all this money she got to buy it. But the weird thing about it is that Crystal Gautier as when she found this report, went to reinterview like the former lead investigator from the Gallant Police Department who was working the case in the nineteen nineties, and he said that even though the FBI sent them the file about Penny's interrogation, they actually removed the section where she made the confession, so they had no idea about it. And the investigator was like,
why did they tell us about this? Because if I had seen this confession, I might have been inclined to file charges against her, or at the very least like really interrogate her enough that maybe she would finally spill the beans and tell the truth about where Antonette was, where Emo was, where Ron was, and finally like shed some light on this. But he had no idea about this until Penny passed away in nineteen ninety nine, and he's
learning about her confession nearly thirty years after the facts. So I'm just kind of flummuxed by the whole situation. I'm thinking that there there has to be more to this story, that maybe it wasn't a direct confession, where maybe Penny was just like pushing forward a hypothetical situation where it's like if I had done this, or if I had done that, what would theoretic be my punishment? And they just did not feel it was strong enough evidence to file
charges. But it's just so frustrating because if law enforcement had known this information, well Penny was still alive, this case might have been solved by now. Why would you exclude that though? I just don't understand why they would exclude that from the Gallup Police department, because I think that could be pertinent
information even if it isn't strong enough to hold up in court. If it was like a total oj situation, if I did it, then at least they could go off of it going, hey, this is your most viable suspect here, Penny and Emo, and then this Ron guy. You know,
he could have played middleman. So you've got these three people who you need to be laser focused on. But yet by excluding that part about Penny saying all of this information, all of the most important and incriminating information that could have allowed them to then interrogate Penny themselves and lean on her hard and hopefully garner a confession of their own that they could then take to court and file charges. This is just so so frustrating because all of these things that
didn't happen. If Annette was alive and well somewhere, it could have led to her rescue. But the fact that it didn't happen, who knows what happened to her? It is just my mind is blown. Exactly like pretty much the true crime world, people who are familiar with this case have given up the same reaction these past a few weeks when all this information came out,
like how did they botch this up so badly? And it makes me wonder if like there's something missing here that maybe the FBI did something like violated Penny civil rights or something, or did something unethical ethical during the interrogation so that or confession would not be admissible. But there really doesn't seem to be any logical reason why they would withhold this information from the Gallop PD, unless maybe it was a jurisdictional thing where they wanted the credit for solving this case
and not this small town police department. But and that makes a lot more sense though finding out that the FBI wanted to question Penny on her deathbed because they all obviously had their eyes on her and just did not have the evidence to do anything. So they were probably hoping that maybe she'll want to make a deathbed confession and spell everything, but they just couldn't get to her in
time before she passed away. But like, couldn't they have gone off the record to Gallop if they weren't going to file federal charges, then they could have gone to Gallop and say, hey, we have this confession. We can't give it to you because we got it by unethical means. You know, she wasn't mirandas whatever it was, and so we can't give this to
you, but we're going to tell you this is what happened. You can't use this information in any official way in your investigation or in court proceedings. But what you can use this information to you is to get more information from the suspects. The fact that they didn't do that is just it's infuriating and
it's mind boggling exactly. And what's even more frustrating is that Crystal Gutierrez has been trying to find information about ron Perry and Miliano Gardella aka EMO, but they're current whereabouts are unknown because I think Ronald Perry is a fairly common name, and as far as I know, she hasn't been able to dig up anything about EMO. So these are the two people who may know the full truth about what happened, but it's been thirty seven years, so we can't
even be certain if they're still alive. So that's why I'm kind of hoping now that all this new information has come out, that it will jump start the investigation and that law enforcement will go all out trying to find these guys or reinterview everybody and maybe find some answers about what happened to Antonette. I really hope. So they really should spare no expense because I feel like Antonette
fell through the cracks. They had a very viable suspect in Penny. If she did indeed couldn't fastin it wasn't and if I did it, even if it was a hypothetical, if I did it, that's all we get from OJ. But I think we all know he did it in my opinion, so I don't know. This case is just boggling my mind. I'm just
in shock that this amount of time could go by. You guys want to question him on his death or you want to question Penny on her deathbed, But yet you couldn't have slipped this info to the Gallant police years ago before Penny, at the age of forty six, is dying of Cerrosi's deliver in cardiac issues. I feel like this should have been shared at an earlier date, way before, so that it's Antonette was indeed alive, that you could
preserve that life. You could find her, you could bring her home so that she could have a semblance of a real life, not in captivity. I'm just like, it makes me really angry that this little girl didn't get the attention that she had deserved here and she was a victim in this situation. Her mother held the key to what happened allegedly, and so I just I don't know why that wasn't pursued further by the FBI, why that information
wasn't shared. This is just breaking my heart exactly. And if the story about Emo is true, then I don't think that he was planning to abduct Antonette just for the purpose of killing her right away. Like she probably went through hell. She was probably sexually assaulted and groomed if she was in captivity
with him, But I don't think he would have killed her instantly. So there would have been a span of at least a couple of years where she may have still been alive and could have been rescued if Penny had been more forthcoming or the authorities had been willing to share more information. I mean, I don't know if Antonett would have still been alive in nineteen ninety four.
She would have been I think sixteen years old or eighteen years old at that time, so I guess it would have been a possibility, And I guess there is a slim possibility she could still be alive today that maybe she broke away from Emo but she just decided not to return from her family or resurface, or maybe she could have been brainwashed or something so that she doesn't know her identity and she's living somewhere else under a new name somewhere, So I
guess there is a slim chance she might still be alive at age of I think it would be forty seven right now. But when you think about, like what the authorities could have done if all this information had gone public many years ago, and it's all the more frustrating. I hope and pray that Antonette is still alive somewhere and that she's somehow been able to escape her captors
and carve out a beautiful life for herself. But I agree with you, I think the probability of that is low because of the inaction of law enforcement. And I also agree that I think that when Emo took her, if he did indeed take her and it played out the way that Penny said that it did, it would have been for some kind of nefarious purposes. It
would have been too who knows. He might not have been into a child at the age of nine, but he could have seen potential, and he could have, you know, like you said, been grooming her until she was twelve or something or thirteen, and that might have been the age that he liked. Or he could just strictly have been a pedophile who preferred children of a very narrow band of ages, and by the time she was eleven
she could have aged out. Or you could have somebody that could just be a sexual predator and it doesn't really matter what age they are, like the guy who is accused of taking Madeline McCann, where he's sexually assaulted the elderly but also young children as well. So here's my theory about what I think happened now that we've heard this new story from Sadie about how when Penny got home, she sent Sadie and Wendy to bed and said that I'm going to
be up at night playing cards with Antonette. I think she was planning for Emo to stop by and that's when she would hand her over to him, and then she would wake up the following morning with this story about, oh, I went to bed and Antonette was here, but then when I woke
up, she was gone. But I think the complication came when Roger showed up in the middle of the night knocking on the door, because that woke up Wendy and Sadie, and I think I don't know if Antonette still would have been there at that time, but I think that Penny probably knew that the police are going to ask who was knocking on the door in the middle of the night, and I think she might have fed a cover story to her children that maybe she said to Sadie, tell them that you saw anton
and answering the door for an aunt and uncle, but she decided not to open it. And then years later she told Wendy, if anyone asks you about that knock on the door in the middle of the night, tell them it was someone claiming it was Uncle Joe and that he opened the door and kidnapper. And then we can push forward this idea that she was abducted by
force from the house in the middle of the night. So but I think that if Roger hadn't shown up and knocked on the door, I think there would be a lot more mystery to there, because I think the two other kids would have slept through the night. Penny would have just said that I
woke up and Antonette was gone. But because this guy showed up and there was a knock, I think that complicated the investigation and probably explained why we've had so many inconsistent stories and different versions of events over the past thirty seven years. I guess that totally would make sense. You've got Penny who goes and gets really really drunk, and I guess that could be an explanation she's
been at the bar. I didn't wake up kind of deal. But like, that also doesn't seem in alignment with I stayed up till three am playing cards unless somebody comes back from the bar and they're going to be like doing a bunch of cocaine or something. I don't think that, like the motivation just to sit up with your kids is going to keep you up until three
am. I think you're probably right. She probably had this plan, send the younger girls to bed, keep end to net up playing cards, and then Roger kind of foils the plan by waking up the girls who should have
just been sleeping through the whole thing. She probably would have made it seamless in letting Emo in, and then this just creates this complication where there's like this cascade of divergent narratives that none of them seem to quite fit, and it's hard to see exactly where the truth is, and I think it's hard
to see where the truth is with both Sadie and Wendy as well. I think there probably is some confusion as to what is what exactly did happen, and what has been the influence of outside forces, whether it be Penny, law enforcement, stuff in the media, so on and so forth type of
deal. It just I'm so frustrated that this wasn't handled differently, like if you like, they had such an opportunity to be able to rescue Antonette and to be able to hold those people accountable who were responsible for what happened to her, but they just they failed. And what's even crazier is that I've heard that nine one one call like so many times over the years, like it has haunted me ever since I watched the Unsolved Mysteries episode back in nineteen
ninety two. But now that I know all this new information, I'm looking at it in a completely different light. I Mean, some people have speculated that it could have been a prank, that maybe a Penny like coursed another kid to make this fight fake phone call in order to give off the false
impression that Antonette was still alive and had been kidnapped. But if that was legitimate, and that she was an Emo's captivity at that time and was trying to escape, and you can only imagine what Penny would have been thinking when she heard it, where it's like she claimed she doesn't recognize the voice of the guy in the background, but she may have known this is Emo all along and then just decided to stay silent about it. So who knows.
Maybe that's what led her down her self destructive lifestyle where she hears her daughter crying out for help but knows that she can't say anything, and it causes just so much pain and grief. For that, she decides to go into drinking and drugs, and then she dies at a very young age and goes around to like flat out confessing at one point, even though it did lead
to the case being resolved. Well, I think she likely had a substance abuse disorder prior to this, and it just accelerated and exacerbated her disease because somebody who comes from a background that was traumatic and I'm going to go out on a limb knowing nothing about Penny and her backstory that she likely dealt with
some trauma. Just by the way that she parented her children. She did not seem like she was a very present or responsible mother in a lot of ways, and if this is indeed true, we can say for a fact
that she wasn't. So yeah, one thing I'm wondering is that I really want to see Wendy speak out again now that Sadie has gone on the record, because, like I said, I don't know if they're still estranged after all these years, but Wendy has always told like this one version of events for so long about like this Uncle Joe knock and whatnot, So I'd really love to hear what she says now that Sadie has gone on the record and
told a different version of the truth. I mean, does Wendy have more information that she is not disclosed that could help provide some more insight on what happened. But then again, you hear that Wendy has gone through trauma of her own with issues with substance abuse, and so she may not have a
clear memory of what happened. But at the very least, I do hope that this new revelation at the very least helps maybe Sadie and Wendy reconcile and maybe get peace, and maybe they can kind of work together to try to figure out what happened to their missing sister. I really hope that the two
sisters can come together. There's something about experiencing a situation like that which there's trauma bonding, and I think that we saw that with Penny and with Wendy, and the fact that they would drink together or get high together and they
would commiserate over what happened to Antonette. But I do find it interesting that Wendy never seems to have like straight out asked Penny if her mother knew what happened to Antonete, or doesn't seem like she's disclosed that if she did do that, Sometimes people don't ask questions they don't want to know the answer to. Yeah, I'd be curious about that, because she specifically said that they
got high and they got drunk together during the nineteen nineties. So it makes me wonder if she if Penny ever disclosed anything to her which may be worsened Wendy's issues, or Wendy was just just saying that I don't want to know, so I'm not going to ask the questions. It's a really unhealthy dynamic when you have parents using with their children, when both of them are clearly
alcoholics or addicts in some capacity. But they both experienced this great trauma, And I really I am so happy that Wendy's story turned out differently than Penny's, and that Wendy got sober, got her ish together, and was able to be there for her children, to reconcile with her husband, and to just live a different life than the path that her mother chose. I think
that guilt may have had something to do with it. Like you've said throughout as well, that if one is guilty, to continue to punish oneself through drinking, through drugs, through unhealthy lifestyle is one way that human beings will kind of actualize their guilt. Right. It's like, I am guilty, so therefore I'm going to punish myself in the way that I'm killing myself in a very slow way. And that's what substance use disorders do, not always
stemming from guilt, often stemming from trauma. But I think that there's multiple different factors that underlie why Penny had crosis to deliver and cardiac issues, and it was deceased at the age of forty six, like it is just so sad, and to also have Wendy and Sadie not only lose Antonette but prematurely lose their mother at such young age is also really sad. And there's one more thing I wanted to mention, but there's been some additional trauma in this
family, even though it's not really directly connected to Antonette's case. Wendy and Sadie's biological father was a man named Anthony Montoya who passed away in twenty twelve, but believe it or not, Anthony actually had a sister who was technically their paternal aunt, who went missing just three years after Antonette did. Her
name was Louisa Estrada. She was twenty five years old and apparently she had a mental disability and was described as having the mind of a young child, and on September the fifth, nineteen eighty nine, she vanished without a trace, and there aren't many details available about her case except that she was last seen in a park outside a Catholic church with an unidentified man who appeared to
be in late twenties. But unfortunately, all the media coverage of her case just stopped after that and I have no idea if Louisa has ever been found. But it's kind of like the Patreon episode we recorded a few days ago about the disappearance of the Palmer Brothers, where you have two members of the same family who just both happened to go missing within three years of each other, and neither of them have been found. So this family has just gone
through more trauma that any family deserves to experience. Yeah, that was a really heartbreaking well cases, it just seems so inexplicable that two brothers would both go missing and neither of their bodies are found, one under very suspicious circumstances, and one it made it look as though it was he just walked off because his snowmobile wasn't working and it was a blizzard, and his remains have
never been found, but ten years apart. Devastated that family. And then we see the same thing here and with one family unit, and what are the chances that we're going to have Aunt Sinette disappear and then her paternal ant also goes missing. It just has a lot of tragedy to befall one family, and it just seems sometimes like once one happens, it seems like a family is more susceptible to almost like incurring more trauma. Do you know what
I mean exactly. I think there's a phrase they used to refer it called lottery families. Were just some families who go through like one bad piece of bad luck after another. Then it feels like that they've like, I don't know why they use the term lottery, but I guess it's just kind of experiencing bad fortune in like the opposite direction, and I think that's what happened here. It's kind of a stupid name, isn't it. It feels like
good fortune. You'd be a lottery family, right, yeah, yeah, So I remember reading about it on the Charlie Project, And I don't know why they originated that term, why it has to do with lottery. So anyway, I think the good news is that now that all this new information has come out, it could jump start the investigation. I'm really hoping that if Ronald Perry and Emo Gardella are still alive, they could be tracked down and questioned, and if Antonette is dead, at the very least they can
reveal what happened to her and maybe lead the authorities to her remains. And I do hope that Wendy maybe speaks out again, maybe has a reconciliation with Sadie. So yeah, I think the good news about all this information is that, as frustrating as it is now that it's out public, I think it is a better chance of this case being solved. Though, like you said, if it had been if they had been able to act on this information back during the time period that Antonette was likely to still be alive,
it would have been a lot better. Yeah. I think it's one of those situations where, yeah, it's great that we have this information now, but it's what thirty five, thirty seven years later, So the likelihood that Antonette is deceased I think would go up exponentially every year after she was abducted. So the likelihood that this many years later, that she is still alive, it feels like they really failed her. I mean, I hope in pray that she is still alive, but I think the probability is low given
the reason that she was likely abducted. Are her captors if it was Emo, is he going to then let her go when she ages out, or would it be more advantageous for him to end her life so that she doesn't go and talk to law enforcement or talk to anybody about what happened to her,
and then he risked going to jail. It's so sad and it just I mean, if those names are correct, Ronald Perry and Emo Gardella are indeed their real names, I really hope that law enforcement takes it upon themselves to go to the ends of the freaking earth to try to track down these men, to track down their next of kin, anybody close to them,
figure out where they were living. Is there somewhere that she could have been held, Get any information that you possibly can so that you can give Sadie and Wendy some answers about what happened to Antonette, this poor poor family. I really hope that law enforcement invests the time and the money, because I would think time is running out at this point. I don't know how old Emo and ron were then, but they're getting to be old men at this
point. So I hope that they really have a fire lit under their behinds and they get to it quickly, because this should have been pursued years ago. They had the information to go off of, and the failure to act, the failure to disclose this to the Gallant police is just going to be like my biggest frustration for the week, and I'm going to continue to think about this because it just breaks my heart that poor Antonette could have been saved
in my opinion, and just the ball was dropped. Yeah, exactly. You've pretty much expressed the same thoughts as the entire true crime community who has learned about these new revelations in the case these past few weeks. In closing, I'll just mention that this case has haunted me for over thirty years now. I was still a young pup when I watched this on Unsolved Mysteries and
that nine one one call when I heard it, absolutely terrified me. But it's such a weird feeling when you suddenly learn new information about a case that you've known about for so long and thought you had an encyclopedic knowledge of and then this new information just like turns everything upside down and causes you to look at the case in a different light. And this is exactly what happened here.
I even revisited the Unsolved Mysteries episode before I recorded this, and it is just so weird to watch now knowing all the new information that I know right now, and I'm thinking that everything I thought I knew about this case was a lie. But at least now that the truth has come out, that increases the chances of it being solved. Yeah, that must be so bananas. When you have like this concrete idea of exactly what happened, it's
committed to your memory. Because we all know that you are the biggest Unfeld Mysteries fans. And if anybody who's listening to this doesn't know, literally Robin can, off the top of his head tell you all of the details of all of these cases in a way that nobody else that I know that does true crime or literally anything else has the capability of doing or retaining. It
is an incredible thing to watch him do it. You know, when you call out a case and it's like, oh, yeah, that one and lists off all the stuff, and Ashley and I are always in awe of that. So this must have really shook you when you heard all of these new details and was like, everything that I thought that I isn't true. It's true. I actually had to use notes for this one. I don't usually have to do that. Usually I can just know the entire case off
the top of my head. But now that I learned all this new stuff, I had to keep double checking and triple checking to make sure that I got it right, because now I'm not entirely sure of everything I'm sharing is accurate. So that should give you an idea of how much this new information just blindsided me. So that about brings an end to our discussion about the Antonett Kaydido case, and we hope there is a resolution someday. So I
join us stuff for our next episode of The Path Went Chilling. We'll probably have Ashley back next time and be talking about another cold case. Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and we offer the standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with
us on Patreon. If you join our five dollar tier Tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and
if you join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollar tier. One of the features we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaw Mysteries, where you can download an audio file and then root up the original Unsaw Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did
a commentary track over was the episode featuring this case. So if you want to download a commentary track in which I make more smartass remarks about Juwel Kaylor
than be sure to join Tier three. So I want to let you know a little bit about the Jewels and Ashley Patreon, so there's early ad free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili minis, which are always over an hour, so they're not very many, but they're just too short to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those. We hope you'll check out those Patreons will link them in the show notes.
So I want to thank you all for listening and any chance you have to share us on social media with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciate it. You can email us at the Pathwin Chili at gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for warm clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy