Client Considerations and Finding Solutions

Ben Thompson - 0:07 Welcome to the Oxford Business podcast of the Oxford Business Community Network. Thank you as always to Story Ninety-Four for hosting us at their wonderful podcast studio in Oxford. If you haven't been, I'd definitely recommend it. Today I'm absolutely ecstatic to be joined by Emma Finneron of ByEmmaJaneInteriors, an award-winning, I promised Emma that I wouldn't mention that and it's taken me 10 seconds, an award-winning interior designer from Oxfordshire. Welcome Emma. Emma Finneron - 0:34 Thank you Ben. Ben Thompson - 0:35 I promised I wouldn't embarrass you didn't I? So let's start Emma and tell those listening all about you and indeed your business. Emma Finneron - 0:42 Well, I am Emma Finneron and I set up ByEmmaJaneInteriors, I think it was back in 2018, November 2018, because I felt like interior design was not very approachable and when I was developing properties and people were asking me to do bits and things, you know around their houses. I felt that they couldn't go anywhere. So I wanted to develop a business that could be approachable for anybody, just normal people like you and me, we just want some advice when we're doing our house and they had nowhere to go to. So I felt like I needed to do that. So there's online interior design services, but there's nothing that's bespoke, to exactly to, as you need it. So for example, if you just want to have a walkthrough or you just want some idea for paint, or you just want to have a look at a particular room, you've got a problem with in terms of layout, or even if you just want some extra advice on a kitchen layout where you've already had your design done, then there was nothing really around where that sort of service could be offered. So I thought, right, that's it, I'm doing this, I'm going to set this up and it's been challenging to say the least, but more so about trying to get the message out there than the actual work itself in just to say, look, we're here, we're approachable, we can come into your project at any point, we can fully manage it if that's what you're looking for, but we're here to do anything you want at any point and it's completely bespoke to every single project or every single client that approaches us and we just sort of come in as and when it's comfortable for them and just give them the advice for what they need or if there's project management or for whatever it is and the journey sort of develops as you go along basically for as little or as much as you want from us. So that's why I did it and it works well. It's a new adventure. Every client's a new adventure and it's a case of just sort of finding your feet in each project because that's what it was all about is helping someone trying to find their feet with their project. So we go in and we sort of work together as a team. Ben Thompson - 3:06 Absolutely, no, it's certainly, having got to know you over probably the last year or a little bit more than that now, it's certainly refreshing to see how you are so passionate about simplifying the sector and making it so accessible. But I guess I'm keen to go back a little bit. In terms of, I guess, your background before setting up the business, and really, I think it'd be useful for the listeners to understand what would be a typical process with an interior designer. So if you were to Google interior designer in every town in the UK, How do interior designers tend to work? And I guess what was the journey from you getting from thinking, you know, there's a real problem here and I can provide a solution. Emma Finneron - 3:46 I probably started property development when I was about 24-25 and when we were researching to get ideas at that point, interior design was based on a minimum budget or a minimum-size property. and most interior designers would only do a full-house design or a minimum spend of a certain amount, you know, thousands of pounds. So completely unachievable for somebody like me that was just buying a small little two-bed flat and needed a bit of advice or even, you know, a small little three-bed property. So there was nowhere for me to go. So then, you know, you just basically learn as you go along yourself and then it's just as I was still carrying on. So as people were seeing what I was doing with properties, then they would ask me, would you mind having a look at my house? Would you mind helping me with my front room? And it was then that I thought, there's something here. There's got to be something here where people who don't want to spend thousands of pounds on interior design, they just want to go to high street brands or have some just normal advice that's within a decent price range or be able to have just a decent budget and not be able to get everything out of that budget and I think because of the construction side and the property development, I am able to go into a project when it's half done. So for example, not use my contractors. I can work with other contractors and interior designers even now will say that they're very skeptical about going in at that stage. A lot of interior designers don't want to do that. So I felt like that's where I could fit in. Ben Thompson - 5:41 Yeah. Yeah. It is really clear having got to know you that you really are an entrepreneur and that you tie it all together in terms of finding the best solution for the client with your passion. So just focusing, I guess, on that entrepreneur piece. So you also run a building company. Talk to me a little bit about that process and what you do there. Emma Finneron - 6:00 Well, I have a small property development company, which at the moment is on hold, but that was really, we would buy properties, sell them, live in them for a couple of years and then sell them or rent them out. So we have one property in that at the minute and that's on hold, but mainly because I wanted to develop By Emma Jane Interiors, because we're trying to use an avenue where we're going into places ad hoc, so to speak, and sort of trying to take control of a situation for a client in certain circumstances when they're 10% of the way through or maybe halfway through. I wanted to develop the construction side of the business as well, so we've got more control over that. So we are now focusing on that and we've just set that up, so that is very, very exciting. What that means is that we can take control over absolutely everything. So we don't have to subcontract out to a builder who then subcontracts out to various other trades. We have all our trades under our roof. They're working for us within our timescales, within our budget, and we also have the interior design mixed in together in the pot. Ben Thompson - 7:18 Amazing, and the thing that I'm quite keen to understand, obviously I'm gonna talk about business, but the thing I'm really interested to understand is when customers come to you, what do you find being the, I guess, the motivation? Is it a commercial thing? So would a property be worth more if you use an interior designer? Is it to make a really nice place to live and need help with a vision? Like what do you find being, I guess, the pain points of somebody coming to an interior designer? Emma Finneron - 7:49 Well, believe it or not, interior design can be very cost-effective and that leans more towards layouts, for example. So for things like kitchen layouts, bathroom layouts, sometimes the interior designer will get to the personal side of the client. That's our job, to get into how they're living, what their family situation is like, how they socialize in their house. You then implement that into, say the kitchen layout, for example and this is if you're doing a project and you employ a builder, they may not necessarily get into the psyche of the family situation and the setup of the situation. Grandkids, who comes around at the weekend, how you use your space, what affects you in that space. You know, for example, there was a client recently I went around to see, and it was just for a walkthrough for advice because they were really confused about what they wanted to do. They have open plan. Open plan is very modern at the moment. It's that, you know, a lot of people are using open plan, but one small, tiny conversation came up and the husband said, you know, I just feel like I need my own space sometimes. So you could tell, for example, open plan wasn't working for him. He was finding it very frustrating because as much as it is modern and everyone just says, let's go for open plan, sometimes for the client personally, it doesn't work out so well. So, you know, in that respect, it's how you pick up on things when people are talking, they may even just say it without even thinking and that's where the interior design comes into play. So it's really good for layouts. So then I walked through with them for another 20 minutes and we suggested a layout which would work for both of them by doing a small room off the open plan which was like a snug room for him to maybe go and escape and they'd not thought of that at all and he was absolutely over the moon. So it's things like that where the interior design can really help because you get into the psyche of the family and what it is they're looking for. How old are the children? How long are they going to be there. How do they work upstairs? Where are the bathrooms? You know, where's the piece space upstairs for, you know, the mom and dad. So it's all those types of things that work really well for a person and also layouts because we're construction based as well. You know, a kitchen company could go in and design an amazing kitchen. But there could be you know, thousands of pounds worth of pipes that need to be moved and it might not necessarily need to happen. So that's where we come into play to make sure that what we're designing is also cost-effective and we don't do anything unnecessary. So it's kind of, it works, it's cost-effective, it helps with people's situations and their lifestyle without them even realising and I think sometimes the misconception of interior design is, oh, it's fluffy pillows and, you know, expensive lampshades and it isn't, it's more about the practicality for the client and the best way to make their properties work for them. Ben Thompson - 11:15 Really good advice there. I appreciate that I'm almost pushing back on everything you've said, and I don't mean to, but because there isn't a one size fits all, obviously with what you do. But I regularly speak to people in the world of property that are looking to get the best value for their house or are looking for their house on the market or potentially looking to, to, to invest in properties and I think we're taught that kitchens and bathrooms are what sells properties. Is that true? Like what would be your kind of tips for, I guess, speaking quite broadly for that person listening to this podcast now that's thinking I really want to add value to my house or I what's going to sell it? Emma Finneron - 11:51 Again, it's not a one size fits all and if someone called me and said, "Look, I really want to add value to my house. Please come in and have a look." First of all, I would look at their budget and say, "Okay, what have you got to work with?" and then work out how old the kitchen is, whether or not we could work with the kitchen as it is. Just repaint it. Whichever way it is, it all depends on what the person wants to spend and that is exactly what we work with and that is the best way to start a conversation with somebody to be honest, because it's all well and good to me saying, "Oh, you can have a new bathroom and a new kitchen." But these things cost money and they take time and they're disruptive, especially if you're living in the property. So it's all those things to consider. So if someone said to me, "I've got a money pot, what can I do to add the best value to my property?" Well, first of all, we'd look at the surrounding area and look at the potentials and then we look at what's selling around the area and what's the most popular and then we start to look at the budget and then we look at the inside of the property. It's a long-winded thing and then we suggest from there to be honest with you. But for example, you know, we would go into show homes. So let's take that as a blank canvas where there's a basic kitchen and a bathroom already done, we'd go into a blank canvas and look at that house and work out who the client is, who is going to want to live there, why they're going to want to live there, what do they do, what is their thing, how are they going to feel about this front room, how are we going to use the layout. So it could potentially be a layout if you've got a blank canvas on a new property and just working out who the family are, what works for them, what their interests are, what they do, how they work, where they work, and then applying that to the property and that adds value to them, but it also adds value if they're trying to sell it, because the same type of customer will come to the same place, but kitchens and bathrooms are always a bit of a winner and yeah, the living space downstairs is always a good thing. But these days the house is worth so much more of an investment for people since we spend a lot more time at home these days. So we do tend to look at multi-functional use for rooms, things that can be adapted quite quickly as well, which adds a massive amount of value at the moment. for example, garden rooms, you know, people looking at extra office space or extra space where the kids can escape because parents are working from home more. So, you know, in the holidays, for example, when you're all around together. So it's different things now that are that are changing the value of properties. Ben Thompson - 14:58 Yeah, really useful advice there. The other thing that is a difficult question, I promised you when I invited you onto this podcast, I'd ask you easy questions. A difficult question is this trade, new build or old property, because I think that a lot of people that I speak to want fancy new build, but then actually a lot of the people that I know in the building trade say actually they're not built as well as old houses. So if you were looking at a property or that person, again, listening at home that is looking to build a forever home, you know, should they be looking at an old property and be doing it up? Should they be looking at new builds? What would be your advice? Emma Finneron - 15:33 Again, that depends on the client's circumstances. So if you're happily prepared to go into an old property and live in it while you're doing it up, it's not easy. I mean, we say it and it sort of rolls off the tongue as if it's an easy task. It is not an easy task to do. If you feel you can go down that path, it's potentially a good path to go down. There's always a markup on a new property and they aren't built as well as they used to be. There's more to do with the soundproofing of properties. I think if you're going to go for a new build, it's a completely different thing in the sense that you're walking into a vision of what someone has made for you. If you go into a property that is older, you're walking into somewhere where you need to put your vision into it. So they're two slightly different things and I think it depends on the customer. So for example, I bought and sold five or six properties and I lived in them and then I got to the stage where I just thought I need to live in a new build. The next thing I want to do, I just don't want to have anything to do with it. So it also depends on your journey before. There is no right or wrong answer to this because new builds as well have to be highly insulated. So they've got great insulation properties. Older properties don't necessarily have that. So there's pros and cons to every situation. Ben Thompson - 17:04 Amazing and I can certainly resonate with, with doing out-of-property whilst living in it. I attempted a month before Christmas to rip out my kitchen and put a new one in and yeah, all I say is I feel sorry for my wife. There was certainly some tears along the way. So what I'm keen to move a little bit onto is your awards, as you know, I'm super impressed with, in a completely non-derogatory way, you know, a business that was set up to do the right thing and to make interior design accessible to all, but actually a business set up in 2018 has won double figure number of awards, I think I'm right in saying so can you share. with those listening a little bit about how you feel you've won the awards the kind of awards you've won and really what have been the benefits to you as a business from winning some of these awards? Emma Finneron - 17:49 It's a funny old thing so I used to have this repetitive dream when I was younger I went to college and I studied and I got my first-class honours and I always had this repetitive dream that actually I'd failed all my exams and it was like a complete farce and I never forgot my first. Madly enough that's a bit how I feel about these awards. The first one came along, I don't know how they managed to contact me, they must have had a referral or something and they contacted me and it's the Build Architecture Award and that one is the one I am very proud of because it takes a lot to get through that process so they send you a long list of qualifying points and you have to go through a questions and answer process every single year. You know, what makes you different this year? What have you achieved differently from this year to last year? Why should we consider you? And I feel like when it's hard work to get something like that, then it makes me feel very proud. They were very supportive of the philosophy of the setup which was you know to make interior design accessible at any point because we all need help at some point and we all you know need a bit of support and they were so supportive of that four years ago now when they awarded me the first award and since then, you know, I've sort of I suppose been working with them and then this year obviously you know, they were really accepting of the fact that we'd added construction under our belt because I don't know if there is, I mean, I have no idea but I don't think that there is an interior design company that offers that that offers a USP of actually doing all the construction and all the trades, plus all the interior design under one roof. So it's fully controlled and actually another reason why we did that was to save people money because obviously you're paying the construction fees and the project management fees and the building fees and then the interior design fees and the management fees, when you combine that you're actually saving, you know quite a bit of money. So it's a great USP and they were really in support of that as well. So but it took me, you know quite a while to convince them. No, it didn't. So I'm really proud of that one. Really proud of that one and I think off the back of that, some of the other companies approached me and just said, we've been looking, obviously, you know, what's been going on, you know, with your company and the philosophy and, you know, it's really good and we'd like to award you. So there we are. Ben Thompson - 20:41 Amazing. I think modesty is a word that really comes up with you. But if you're listening, please check out the awards of Emma. Emma Finneron - 20:47 Bless you. Ben Thompson - 20:48 Double figures within your first five years in business is very, very impressive. I'm going to spin this awards piece a little bit because then you don't need to be honest. So for somebody listening at home who might run a podcast business or might run a video business or a recruitment business or whatever that has been approached about awards or was thinking about applying for awards, is it worth the time and like have you seen a benefit to your business since being award-winning? Emma Finneron - 21:16 To be honest I don't really talk about it that much as you know Ben, but actually from a personal perspective it's been really good for me because it's very hard to run your own show and it's very hard to keep going sometimes and have the energy and to keep finding ways to grow and develop and when you've got people behind you that support you like that, and it gives you an award, it gives you that confidence and that push to keep going. So it's actually been quite a good personal thing for me. Ben Thompson - 21:48 Absolutely, absolutely. A different topic that I'm really keen to move on to whilst you're here is women in construction. So I know that there's a lot of work happening at the moment, isn't there with school children who are girls to enter the world of construction and a lot of them would aspire to be in your position. So what would be your advice to maybe parents listening who have girls who are thinking about entering the world of construction or indeed people that are girls themselves who are thinking about becoming the next woman superstar within a male dominated sector? Yeah, what would be your advice? Emma Finneron - 22:23 Go for it. Absolutely go for it. It's becoming, you know, it's more spoken about now when When I first started, I felt like, "Oh, I'm one of the minority here", and you do feel a little bit out of your comfort zone, but definitely not now. There's so many unbelievably successful women out there that are doing property development in construction, project management, surveyors, architects. It's absolutely incredible. It's a welcome open door to any of us. Ben Thompson - 23:01 Amazing, amazing. Perfect. We are coming towards the end of the podcast and I think you've already shared so much knowledge and expertise, but I want to end on a top tip if that's okay and I want to end on a top tip for a business or an individual who has a space. What would be your top tip for them to think about or a question for them to ask themselves when trying to make that space better for them? Emma Finneron - 23:25 Top tip, go back to yourself. Go back to yourself, go back to how you're gonna get best out of yourself in a particular space or your people. Ask your people how they feel, what they want, speak to them, get the personal aspect out of you, draw it out of yourself and draw it out of your people and then come and speak to me and I'll tell you what to do with it. Ben Thompson - 23:52 Amazing, what a great way to, to end the show. So thank you so much, Emma, for spending your time today. and really being just being so authentic and sharing such honest advice we yeah really really do appreciate it. This has been the latest episode of the Oxford Business Podcast of the Oxford Business Community Network. Thank you so much as always to our good friends at Story Ninety-Four and their amazing podcast studio here in Oxford. I've said this twice and I'm going to say it again if you haven't been already get in touch with the team as I'm sure they would love to show you around and show you all the amazing stuff going on here. So thank you once again for listening and please tune in to the next version.