The OTP | NFL Scouting Combine Day 3

the week. On Thursday, coach mac and then sort of the football takes over. People will wonder why does a lot of the media leave. It's because they can't go in and watch the workouts, and the workouts take center stage starting today. Absolutely. Today's the day that they start with the defensive line and the linebackers and then they will progressively go through, you know, until Monday, with the

different positions. The first three days that we have been here, it has been all media because you've got the interviews at the platform, at the podium, you've got every team represented here on the floor. That is bringing people in to do a lot of different things. Titans Radio has beaten everybody by bringing in interviews and content, but now it's starting to get to the football part of it. On the floor. Ongoing has been with the players interviewing with teams both in the in the what we call

the train station interviews. And also they're not at the train station anymore. They're on the consoon to all used to be, but they're on the concourse now, but they still call them the train station interviews. And then the formal interviews that gone over at theay at the Holidame. But the media is allowed into none of that. So the part that the media has total access to is winding up pretty quick. Players at the podiums. Ret Brian has been there for a lot of that when we

have not taken his time to join us. The defensive linemen have spoken, they have. The linebackers have spoken. They have the defensive backs have spoken, yes, they have. To this point, anything or anybody jump out to you A couple of things as I look back at my notes here. Caleb Murphy a very interesting young man and one of the stories coming out of this combine. One of the three Division two players invited to the combine from Ferris State.

He's the pass rusher. He's the pass rusher. He's the Ted Hendricks Award winner twenty five and a half sacks at Ferriss State last year. And now he's light. He's gonna measure in nearly six to five, about two fifteen. He needs to add some functional strength. But a really nice young man, Dylan Horton, Frog TCU. That's a good prospect. Ali Gay. This is a pass rush or from LSU who is from what is called the Smiling Coast of Gambia.

Came here when he was a young fellow, like a lot of you know, the Samokawanus that we have a lot of those stories like that. His father came here in two thousand and seven and until they were given asylum to leave, he didn't see his dad for four years. Has a very interesting story there. But he's a good prospect from LSU who has not only a lot to prove here this week and in a good edge rusher class,

but has an interesting story in background. Will McDonald a fourth who if we have mentioned on the OTP a couple of times this week, who was at the Senior Bowl edge rusher Iowa State. That's right, who is heading towards two hundred and fifty pounds playing wait Klijah Kancy I found interesting to speak to. He was the defensive lineman from pitt who is gonna get some comparisons because of his size too. And Aaron Donald roughly six feet

to eighty that's correct, he's currently at two eighty. Syracuse cornerback Garrett Williams is interesting. He's a guy that has come off of an acl in the last two or three months and heard him telling some great stories. Perhaps the guy I think that has taken the podiums in these first three or four days is the pass rusher from Georgia, Nolan Smith. He was holding court and just

was absolutely that great personality. And then Julius Brents, who we saw at the Senior Bowl, who's the cornerback from Kansas State of really long prospects. He six three. He's gotta be he's gonna have because he was a big, tall drink of water heading up to the podium. But perhaps the most impressive person who passes the eye test is Joey Porter Junior from Penn State. When you see the preliminary stuff that says he's six two one eight legit.

He looks the part that looks like a first round draft pick cornerback who is a long He and Julius Sprince are probably two of the longer cornerbacks in this thing than in wingspanning those things. He's the he said today, he's the number one cornerback in this draft. Sounds a lot like his dad. You know the reason he said that's because he probably is. He may be, he may be, he's got he's got it, he's got a chance, he's

got a chance to be. But he's definitely a first round pick, and he's somebody that the Titans have been mocked with at number eleven. May not be there at eleven, may already be gone. Certainly would be good value at eleven to get a corner of that with that size and the sort of ability and not surprisingly not scared

to play the run, No, absolutely not. And then knowing, of course, knowing the bloodlines and having very close knowledge of his father during the years in the in the afc uh, you know this guy and you can tell that he you can kind of tell some of the some of these players that have grown up with a father that has not only been an NFL player, but as been an accomplished NFL player. If these if these guys show any type of affinity at all for the game from a young age, their dads start teaching them

very very well. And so he's one of them. I like a corner with confidence though, a guy who he's the best guy on the field. I'll take that any day. It as big as this dude is, yeah, he can handle the physicality. He would not be afraid of contact at all. Let me ask you a question as we get ready to play our first interview, Dave McGinnis give us a quick explanation of who Cio Brocado was. Ceo Brocado.

It started out my first reference with him was when he was a coaching He was coaching at the University of Texas at Arlington. He recruited me out of high school to come to UTA because someone that went to my high school went and played and one of his better players good Texas named Billy Ray Stewart. Well, Billy Ray played for CEO, and then CEO recruited me and I said, no, you know, I'm going to the Southwest

Conference school. But you know, we had it. We had a connection and so as we as we moved forward. He got his first job with the Houston Oilers as a scout, and then CEO would come through the schools. CEO would always be the first scout, might come through the building and know all the secretary's names and have donuts for everybody, And all of a sudden, then when he when you know, I was always in when I was playing, I didn't know this, but he evaluated me.

Then when I was a graduate assistant, I was in charge of the guys that would the pro scouts that would come in, and all of a sudden, he'd say, hey, you want to learn about what I'm looking for, sit down and watch this. And so anyway, he has taught so many He was an innovator in this in this league as a scout and in his career. We're lucky because we were around him. I coached, you know, on the Titans when he was so I've known him for

a long time since my high school days. This guy was an innovator in the in the field of scouting, the three cone drill. Here his seal Racado is so well known. When CEO really got sick, and I will say this, he really got sick. Could not the first combine he could not be at he he always had the lead chair at the forty yard line. To time when he was not here, they put an empty chair at the forty yard line and everybody knew that was

for CEO. Safe to say that he has the biggest tree, if you talk about like a coaching tree, he has the biggest scouting tree in NFL history. Very very fair with that, and even people that aren't on teams, scouts for teams, people that are now in the draft business and one of the better young ones going that you know, we sat We sat here with CEO. Yes, and I think you're completely right. The roots and the branches of

his tree go very wide in this league. So that will explain the first part of our conversation with one of those great draft analysts who was CEO Brocado trained our visit with the Athletics, Dame Breuthler. Right now on the OTP Amy Wells, we are sitting across the table from two guys who were trained by CEO Bracada coach

Dave McGinnis and Dane Brugler from the Athletic. You have great company right there with you, and trust me, and that is it is an absolute honor to be in that company because, I mean, learning from CEO was something that to this day still shapes how I watched football, and it's it's the foundation of u for me as an evaluator. So it's invaluable experience that you just can't replicate,

you know, Dane. I go back when I was playing at TCU, CEO came through and was the one that scouted me with my group, and so I have known CEO since well, he even when I was getting ready to choose a school, when he was coaching at the University of Texas at Artis Arlington. He's a linebacker coach, and so he came. But anyway, watching your work through the years, you know, like I've done, and knowing CEO as well as I've known him. I think I took CEO to his last workout at TCU, you know when

he was you know, when we were losing him. I mean, and it was just cel Brocado is and we were talking earlier. Ceale Brocado should be in the Hall of Fame, should be should be fame. But watching your work, you can see CEO in it. Well I appreciate I mean that that's That's the highest compliment you could give me.

If I didn't see it, I wouldn't tell you no. And I mean I've told the story before, but just um, it was the year that Andy Dalton was coming out and um going to TCU's Pro day four CEO, stopping in Arlington at his house on the way to go, and just going through every single okay you know, uh, Jeremy Curley and Andy Dalton and going through all these players and how do he look? How what'd he do this?

And even then, even though he couldn't physically be there, the questions he was he was asking like him he mentally he was still sharp. He was still wanting to know, Okay, what was the stance, what was he what kind of routes was he running? Um? You know, Andy Dalton, how was the ball coming off his and um, I mean this is the the guy that created the three cone drill,

you know, those created the way we evaluate football. So um, you know, just being I mean I only knew him or got a chance to learn from him for a couple of years, So it wasn't um, you know, extensive period of time, but it was, well it was I learned more from him than I did from you know, most people said I knew him my whole career, my whole career starting yet TCU. So anyway, see I was a special man. You've been to his house. How about all the stuff he had stacked, all the films and

when you walk into his house. Yeah, I mean it was like horders, right, and you had tunnels, right, you had to go through, and he had all kind of gear, you know, and there and then all all kind of tapes, all tapes of every type, just stacked everywhere. Special special

dude in the car. Yeah, yeah, absolutely that that that baby blue color and you know, his his daughter going to the door, and his daughter, Uh, lets us in, and you know, I'm just navigating through everything and just slip at her and she rolls her eyes, and you know she she grew up with that. You know, she

knew her dad. And yeah, anyway, good stuff. We're gonna pick your brain about offensive line, okay, because the Titans have offensive line needs the most economical place to get at least some, if not all, of the offensive lineman that they need would be in this draft. A lot of what we're seeing right now is them at eleven taking a tackle do you see a match there for

the Titans that you like best? Well, I think you look at the two tackles, and let's say Peter Scronsky is a guard for this conversation, and I love Peter Scronsky at Northwestern. I think he's the best offensive lineman in this draft. Because of the arm length, a lot of teams are going to move in the guard, and I don't think that's necessarily, you know, a bad thing. I think his best his highest ceiling at the NFL level could be inside a guard. I think he could

be on a Zach Martin trajectory. He is that good. But the two tackles, Broderick Jones from Georgia, Paris Johnson from Ohio State. Uh, both these guys are future NFL starters. And Roderick Jones has probably the highest ceiling. He's just he's such an athletic player. Um, still learning in ways, but he's so athletic. And then Paris Johnson moving over from right guard to left tackle this year, he just

he's a natural left tackle. Um. You know I think that you know, you don't see a lot of negative reps on his tape when you when you study him, give me a thumbnail of Paris Johnson if you would please, he looks the part. I mean that's how you want your left tackle to look. Um. I don't know that he's necessarily an elite mover, but well more than good enough, I mean above average with the way he moves. Um, he can scoop out blocks. Um for a taller guy.

Scouts speak really highly about his uh intangibles, his intelligence. Um, he's a really thoughtful guy. Um. You know he's an All American this season for a reason with the way he played protecting C. J. Stroud's blindside. And um, you know that it's it's hard to hunt for apps on film where he was beat You know, you just don't see a lot of them. Maybe you watch the national

chant or the semifinal game of the Playoff. A Georgia player would get him or here or there, but it was rare for a team for a player just to beat him straight up off the edge. Breakdown. Broderick Jones the same way if you would play a super athlete for that size, and you know, and look in the offseason something he get down to two eighty five at times because he's just a leaner athlete. But then he put it back on. He's up to three fifteen. You know,

you watch him shoot baskets. He looks like a natural basketball player with the way he moves out there. There are times where you know he needs to get the hands and the feet on the same page and technically not where you want, but the ceiling where he could be down the road. That gets you excited. So he's a good player now, but you draft him in the top fifteen because he could be a great player down

the road. I want to talk about Peter Scronsky again a little bit because we see so many guys saying I'm not a guard, I'm a tackle, and a lot of that is because of the financial implication a tackle can become in the National Football League. Is there anything that he could do in the combine, at a pro day, throughout this process to show teams that he's more of a tackle or is this truly going to come down to just body type and measurements and things like that.

That's what will come down too. And I think if I'm Peter Scronsky, I'm just gonna say, hey, watch my tape. I was a three year starter at left tackle, and uh, I dominated you know, Rashawn Slater opted out of that twenty twenty season for Northwestern. You know what's Northwestern are gonna do at left tackle if they got this true freshman coming in Peter Scronsky, who has the bloodlines. His grandfather played for Vince Lombardi and the Packers when in

those first two Super bowls. Um, you know he was, he was really groomed for this, uh, this opportunity. The body type is he looks more like a guard, there's no way around that. But I do hope he gets the chance to stay outside a tackle because the processing, the feet h and then just how detailed he is, how how technically sound he is. That that's uh, I think that give him a chance to stay at tackle.

If if a team get that opportunity, can we can we do the same thing with some interior guys because I've you know, the Titans need both. Yep. I mean that's just that's just where they are. Osire's Torrents. Yeah. You want a power guy, you know, a mall or a guy that's gonna when he gets his hands on you, it's over. And his his hands are I mean they're over eleven inches, they're huge, huge, myths and so, um, you know he's I really respect him because he was

highly thought of at Louisiana. After his junior year. He didn't have to transfer. No, he could have stayed at Louisiana and he would have been a top forty pick. He wanted to challenge himself. He said, I'm gonna go to the SEC. I'm gonna face SEC defensive lineman week in week out. And uh he did, and he dominated. He played really well, didn't give up a sac this year. Um, you know, the Florida offense was a little up and down, but not right guard. Right guard. You knew what you

were getting every single day. And so if you if you were looking for a you know, a really mobile range player, he's maybe he's not the guy, but he's more than athletic enough to do, you know, execute the blocks that NFL offenses needs you to execute. So to me, he's Osiris Torrance the top If Peter Scronsky is a tackle, then Osiris Torrence is the top guard this year. Okay, let's do this. Let's go to the other spectrum of it.

Now we're talking about a guy that moved from Louisiana to the SEC let's talk about a smaller school guy that Cody Mauk. Another guy who's just he's fun, fun to watch and you know, talk about his backstory. He was a walk on tight end at North North Dakota State. UM. You know, you look at his background growing up on a farm, and you know he's he's got it. Comes from a big family and you know that that country strong you talk about. I mean, that's that's what he is.

Played smaller football in high school, so he did a little bit of everything. But he goes to North Dakota State, puts on the weight, uh, you know, adds something like seventy pounds UM, and he becomes a left tackle and another guy that position will be interesting how teams look at him because he's a little light in the the lower body, doesn't have maybe the sand that you look forward down below. But you know, he's really quick, he's he's mean, loves to play the game, and so I

he might have the most versatility of this group. You know, we don't play him center, guard, tackle. I wouldn't be surprised if four years from now we look back and he's the best center from this class. He has that type of ability. So yeah, Cody mock Uh. You know, the mentality is there, the ability is there. He's going to be a good player, and I think he's well deserving. I'm a top forty pick. As we've mentioned, the Titans have multiple needs on the offensive line. It's not just

one role to fill. There are a couple different places where they could use a little bit of help. Do you think it is conceivable that the Titans are drafting multiple offensive linemen for the future of this team in one draft? There's no question, absolutely, And you know I think that we could, you know, first two rounds. Why not?

You know, the goal of the draft is to build your team, make it better who you know, and you can make the argument that there will be no greater impact on this roster than building in the unoffensive line, so that I wouldn't be surprising at off we see them double dip offensive line inside outside, you know, first round, second round, third round. That that's I think that's definitely a possibility. And you don't predetermine that going into the draft.

You know, I think that you see how the board falls to you, but this is a I don't I don't I wouldn't call it a strong offensive line group. But there's definitely good players, but I don't know if it's I wouldn't call it deep at those positions. So if you have one that's there for you, and say say they go offensive tackle in the first round, say in the second round, maybe they're targeting like a playmaker, say they want to get a wide receiver or someone

like that. But you know what, there's ay a really an offensive lineman they have graded pretty highly, is there for him. It be is hard to say no to that because you have to when the when an offensive lineman's there, and especially in this draft, you got to pounce. And I think the Titans could absolutely do. Though. Dane Brugler from the Athletic I know he's a tight end, but he has OH line size. How do you characterized Darnell Washington from Georgia unicorn Ian? You just not many

guys that I tell you. He is the leanest two hundred eighty pounds I've ever seen. I've been I look at body dice for a living, you know, and it's I've never seen a body type quite like him. He's he doesn't have the receiving production that you ideally want at the college level, but The reason he didn't is because he was too valuable as a blocker. He was

a sixth offensive lineman for that Georgia offense. And you know, with Brock Bowers on that team at Georgio, you know, why are you going to force feed Darnell Washington more and more targets when the value he brings on the offensive line as an inline player is so great that you want to keep him there. So now what is he in the NFL? Is that the same role as

you're going to be a true in line y tight end? Probably, And I think that there is some untapped potential for him as a pass catcher because when he is targeted, he makes things happen. He has such I mean's so humongous that he has a huge catching radius. Uh, you love the body control. Um. You know he's you know raw in some areas with his routes, but that's to be expected from a young player. So he is he as fascinating as a prospect, and it'll be really interesting

with this tight end group. It's so deep at the top where we have four or five guys that belong in the top fifty picks, and so where Darnell Washington fits in that group will be really interesting. Let's go back to the interior a minute, because, as you said, and the Titans need to build this core group. Back up Steve a La. I thought Steve really helped himself this year as a senior and then at the Senior Bowl. Uh, you know he played a lot of center, and then

he moved on the left art this year. Um, you know remind me a lot of Um. You know, Jonah Jackson when he's coming out of Ohio State went to the Lions. I think he's a third round pick and he's been a really solid starter for them. I think a Vela could be that type of guy. I love. I love the way he sees things. Um, you know, just talking to him, the way that you know that he sees the field. Uh, he's a really smart guy. You can you can tell that the just the way

the dots connect for him. Uh. He understands football geometry, which we know is so important in the trenches when you have to execute, you know your blocks and your fits. So um, you know, I'm I'm a big fan of a Villa. I think he's he's another guard O Cyrus, Torrence, Cody Mack, Steve a villa. All three of those guys belong somewhere in those top fifty top sixty picks. Well, we may as well just round it out then and talk about John Michael Schmidt's the center from Minnesota. And

you know, actually I like John Michael Schmitts. Um, Joe Tipman from Wisconsin's actually my top center. Uh in this group. Who is an underclassman. Uh. He's a little taller than most centers, you know, six five and a half six six, But talk about an athlete, a guy that is also has that strength, I mean, what you would expect from a Wisconsin offensive lineman. Um, but he could really move I think he'll show that this week at the Combine. He should test well. He should, you know, with the

movement skills, really show off what he can do. He's a smart guy. Um. So I think Joe Tipman for me is the top center this year, but John Michael Schmitz is right behind him. I thought he if you would have came out last year, he would have been a top one hundred pick. Decided to go back for a sixth year at Minnesota and had a pretty good year. So he's I don't I don't know that I buy the first round, but I think somewhere on day two

he's gonna be a really solid pick plug in play center. Um, you know, he's just he's a He's a rock solid player to me talking about these guys, and I'm glad, I'm glad you brought Tipman up because I've got these are just watching take These are the five guys that I had here. And the only thing I questioned about Tipman as as a center was the height. Yep. But but he plays with great kneed man he does, and

he never gets over extended. So I mean, you can't say one size fits all is right completely out of it right. Well, and his movements, I think that's you know, if you're gonna run an offense where you're gonna ask your center to pool and get on the move, and that's where he really factors in. That's where his he separates himself. So but I know, I think you're exactly right. The way that he can bend the leverage points. You

know he understands that. Um. But I also think he gives you a little bit of versatility where if you want to play him a guard, you want maybe even a tackle. I think you know, he has that has that ability. He played tackle in UH in high school, and so just happened when he went to Wisconsin. They you know Wisconsin, they cross train, you know. They they want their guards to play centers and their centers to play tackle, and you know they because they want to

get the best five on the field. And it just happened that it worked out where Tittman was a center. And but I think there is positional versatility there with him, which I don't know that you can necessarily say with a guy like Osiris torrants So I like quite a bit. But he's a guard right exactly exactly, and so and it was good to see Osirius Torrens at the Senior Bowl play left guard because he was primarily a right guard. Um, so it was good to see him play on the

left side. But yeah, he's a guard where um and and a Vila maybe could play center. He's got center experience. But tipman, I think gives you a little more position flex Can you feel CEO sitting right here? Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, that's uh learning from from him some of the things that you know, just wow, I never thought of that, or I never and I never thought to look at Uh, you know, the joint flexibility or you know, like when

I was first getting started out. I mean he laid the groundwork for things that my uneducated eyes weren't looking for that you know now would just changed forever. How I how I watch the game? Yeah, talk to me about an offensive lineman that we haven't discussed so far who helped himself a lot at the Reese's Senior Bowl. He gotta mention Dwan Jones, the Ohio State Mammoth Ray tackle. Um,

and not just a Senior Bowl, but his entire senior year. Um. This is a player who's from here and here in Indianapolis. UM basketball player. You know, he thought he'd be in the NBA one day, and I think it wasn't until his junior year, senior year at Ohio State where he finally you know, he's in his mind. He convinced himself like you know what I'm I'm a football player through and through and so uh, you know, I think once

that clicked on for him. You saw it on the field with the movements, the way he can, uh just dominate guys. And when you're built like that, where you're six to eight and you've got these thirty six inch arms. You know, obviously you've gotten a little bit of an advantage, but you might also might not be the most nimble mover. But he's able to compensate because of his body control

and his improved balance this year. So Dwan Jones, with the way he played this year as a senior at right tackle and then at the Senior Bowl, surely helped himself. Let's talk about somebody else that I thought and we can all discuss this helped himself at the Senior Bowl. It's Darnell right. Oh yeah, see ye, no, no, quite another guy his You watch his junior tape and you know, like this guy's a five star, like yeah, then you watch his twenty twenty two stuff and you're blown away.

I mean he just because he moved yeah well yeah, right, he was left tackle as a junior, moved a right tackle for a senior year. You watch him against Alabama and Willie Anderson. You watch him again, and he's he's shutting these guys down, and I think it's just, you know, he showed a better understanding of the biomechanics of his body, how to sit down, stop, you know, really halt bull rushers.

You let his length work for him. So yeah, Darnell Wright, no question, his senior year and then the way he performed the Senior Bowl certainly a riser. He's put himself in that first round discussion. All right, So let me ask you this as we wind down. If the Titans take an offensive leman in the first round, let's just say, and then they're looking for a guy in day three who might be a starter. Who's somebody like that that you may find and say, oh wow, this guy can

really play and can help us right away. Yeah. Well, obviously, if you know, if a guy's fall into the Day three there's probably a reason for that. Um, but you know, I think that you know, we can you can find value there. Trying to think the Michigan Center olu. Uh, you know, he's a guy that I don't know that he's gonna be a starter, but someone that you can come in and he's gonna help your offensive line. Room. Um,

you know he's very smart technically sound. Um, I do question just you know the power and that's why we're talking about him as a day three pick. But uh, you know he could be there in that mix. Um, who do you got in day three? That you're Daniels from Utah. The versatility with him, I think that's you know he's to me is that's kind of the dude. Yeah. Well, and I think you talk to the Utah coaches, they'll tell you five position versatility. Uh, you know you want

to play a tackle guard? He can do that. So no, that that's a that's a great call. Um. You know Brandon Daniels, we didn't get a chance to him with the Senior Bowl. Um, but I think he should show well here like him best at uh. And I think he played tackle, but I think he can play guard too in the NFL, so that position flexes. Why third fourth round? Yeah, he's definitely got to keep on the radar.

McClendon Curtis from Chattanooga. Yeah, I'm eager to see how he moves out here, because that's that's a that's a big dude. Uh, with the way he moves, natural power, Um, you know, how how does he move compared to these other guys. So he's gonna need some time, I think, you know not, I don't think he's plugging play. I don't think he's a guy that's gonna just step in and be able to handle NFL pass rushers. But you give him some time, you give you know he'd be

the perfect guy to develop. And the price tag on him is probably you know, third fourth round. So um, but I think you have to be realistic when you know how long before he gets on the field. So um. But you know, he's a good name to know, especially with his story and the way he's come. You know another basketball guy who you know kindly finally said okay, ye,

I'm a football player and is really bought in. Another guy kind of liked and a kid just kept watching And the more I watched the Moorrow I've liked him is Jalen Duncan from Maryland. Yeah, you know, and he moves really well. Uh that's I think the physical tools

are what you really like. Um. I'm just I wonder if he might be better inside a guard because you know, he's not the longest player the way he moves, but I'd like him inside a guard where he put him in his zone blocking scheme, let him let him kind of show off, what what separates him? I think he's a player that My biggest worry with him. Watching his twenty twenty two tape, his worst games were against the best opponent Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State. That worries me

with him where you know, that's where he struggled. But I think you know, if you're looking third, fourth round, you know that's the you want to bet on a guy with those types of physical traits. How long could you two just sit in a dark room and watch tape and just go back and forth. Oh, there's there's nothing better. I mean, that's as well as I said, we can feel CEO right here. See I was in many a lot of draft rooms with the CEO during

my coaching career, you know. And I mean and then on the road, even when I was coaching different places, you know, we would sit and talk. The great thing about CEO Pracado was he made you justify your thoughts. Yeah, he made you justify your thoughts. And he would and he would, you know. And when we were working on with the same team, there were times when you know,

as in readings in draft rooms. In draft rooms, you can't read, you can't talk about a player unless you've written a report, and you can't write a report unless you've done five tapes. And then you also have to have points within the tape where you could prove what you're saying. And many of times after we'd break he'd say, hey, come down here, show me what all right, let me

ask you both this question. Jalen Carter, defensive tackle Georgia, has been charged with reckless driving leaving the scene of an accident, pretty serious thing, in a fatal crash that he was not specifically involved in, but he was there. Apparently, you first Dane and then you coach. How much does this affect his draft stock? You know, it's a lot has been made of you know, quote unquote character character concerns with him, and you know, I've talked about scouts

about it, and you know, he's it's the same. He's a young guy, you know he there are certain times where Kirby had to write him a little bit sure, but I think you could say that about um, you know, most of the younger players in this draft that are twenty years old, twenty one years old. Now, you know, obviously this is a little bit different situation. We're talking about away from the field, away from the football facility that uh, you know is going to make teams maybe

you know, question the decision making. And this is where you just have to do your homework and find out more about the player and more about the person and understand is this uh you know, get more details and so you know it's it does. Cloud thinks there's no doubt, but um, you know, I think I don't think it's gonna make teams say, oh, well, we're not gonna draft him.

It's just gonna make him dig harder and get more information just to find out, Okay, if we draft you, because he's gonna go somewhere in the top five picks. If we're gonna drafting the top five, can we trust you? Are you a guy that we're gonna worry about when you leave the facility. They just need to be comfortable

with the answers they get during the interview process. And that's why for Jalen Carter, this week and the rest of the draft process is gonna be so big because it just comes down to the interviews and convincing teams, just selling himself and say yeah, I'm someone you can rely on, and so an incident like this is gonna make them question that. But he's gonna have every opportunity to be in front of teams and really put his

best foot fall. That's that's the exact correct answer, because you want to find out how he represents himself, and you're going to question him and ask him explain this, explain this, and then try to figure out how honest he is with you. That's that's what will happen here. That will happen here because as Mike has said, this has just come out, so's it'll be a topic. It will be a topic within his evaluation. Kane Brugler, glad you're feeling better. Enjoy reading all your stuff in the athletic.

It's so great, and we certainly take pride in you because you're sort of a relative with your Ceol Brocado experience, knowing what he means to our organization and to the entire NFL. So thank you so much for your time anytime. I'm I'm glad it really worked out. You and dadon Brugler had a very good rapport. Coach Mac Well, what I was saying, you could feel CEO right there, and and Ceo, look, I've known him all my life and then when I started working professionally with him, you know,

he would come through. And then I mean in the draft room I've had you know, arguments with Seal Bricado about players, and he would make you justify your picks. Justify your pick to me, and if you see it differently, just just a fight to me. He made me a much better scout. There's two guys that have influenced my draft analysis ability over all these years, Cial Bricado and Bill Tobin. I mean, because those two guys knew how to do it. Bill Tobin built the Bears, the great

you know, the great, the great Bears, Cial Bricado. But when you went to a workout across the league, across the collegiate landscape, after this is over, a school visit and CEO showed up, everybody there backed away. And however, CEO wants to run this school visit. That's the way we're going to run it. Great man, great man. And you were very familiar with him, Oh yes, I mean right there in that building, and you know we miss him. But very important to this league, all right. So how

would you describe our next guest? Cynthia Freeland? Way smarter than me, That's why you would start. That's probably where I would start. She is is so much fun to watch on television. She's and I feel like She's everywhere throughout NFL Network. They've got her on every program, it feels like. But she is someone who in the last couple of years has really come on to the scene and is able to explain some of the most complicated topics in a way that makes them incredibly easy to understand,

especially if you're not a numbers person. Mike Keith, you're a numbers person, so you guys really get along very well. Cynthia Freeland and the things that she's able to do with math and with numbers, and with analytics and with sports betting and with all of these different things. I mean, sports is a very mathematical business. She is able to explain it in a way that's a entertaining, b is easy to understand, and I just really like her. Yeah,

she's pretty great on NFL Network. She's the numbers lady. Is that the way we would put it. The analytics she is the numbers lady, and she is very good at what she does. I was dying to have Coach Mac visit with Cynthia Freeland and it was great. It was great. You immediately had a bond with her. Coach I was very impressed. I met her again this morning. You met her again this morning? Yeah, I mean didn't

you just run into her again? I met once? No, No, I mean she's not forgetting coach mac oh, but we had. I mean she's brilliant. She is brilliant, but she's also very very and Amy put it very very well. She can explain things that are extremely extremely detailed and complicated maybe from the jump. I mean, she's brilliant. I'm so impressed,

so impressed with Ran Carthon and Chad Brinker in the building. Now, some things are changing about the Titans and analytics and John Robinson had embraced them a good bit more later in his tenure and so that's been ramping up for some time and will continue to ramp up. And that makes this visit with Cynthia Freeland I think even more top of mind. And it's just great to visit with

her anyway. Centthia Freeland from NFL Network on the o TP Centthia Freeland, NFL Network Numbers Guru sounds better with the southern accent. Doesn't do it again? Thank you, Yes, NFL Network Numbers. I need that on my like, can you be my voicemail my absolute Yeah, a hundred percent. Can do that. Thanks for joining us, Thank you for having me, Thank you for she met us last year and she's actually come back where we're very surprised. Yes, thank goodness. All right, So I was watching you the

other night. I'm thinking, yeah, you're a Cynthia, but you could be a SINDI. I was a Cindy for like the first eighteen years of my life, okay. And then I went to Boston College and there and I was I'm from I'm from East Lansingers, right, And I went to BC and that was in these large you know, everyone wants to be a doctor a freshman year, so here like bio one on one or whatever. And I wasn't going to raise my hand with a hundred people like actually it's Cindy because I was too scared. So

now are you are? Are you still Cindy to some people? To some people, yeah, yeah, family, Yeah, mostly I would say a lot of sin, like okay, quickly sin, you know, like like it's yeah, you know, it goes by the way. Well, now that we've got that important thing out, we've just hired Ran Carthon as the general manager. Have you his personality?

Great love love, Yeah, he's fantastic. All right, So he has talked a lot about analytics, and he's just hired Chad Brinker from the Green Bay Packers assistant GM who has his own programs in analytics. For the listeners of the OTP, could you give us an example of what a football analytic is. Okay, so here's here's I'm gonna use it this again to sound nuts, but we'll get

back to football. Okay. You know when you're like in a different city and you you're like, I gotta go to dinner in Indianapolis and this my GPS and I push in ways or and it gives you options, right, It gives you one with a toll road, it gives you one with maybe two minutes longer but no toll role. And then it gives you the one where you don't have to make that like haywire or left turn this

little scary so you get three different options. All it's doing is giving you options, and you still have to choose as a human being. And by the way, it can't sometimes it doesn't know there's an accident along what right it is hasn't updated yet, So really, what what what is going on in football analytics? And the word the A word is overused. I don't know what it means anymore, and I have a degree in it. So the reality is is what you're doing is trying to

increase your decision making by just a little percent. Remember you have what seventy plays in a game. If you're getting ten percent better, how many times has something come down to seven plays in a game? A lot? Like every week? So what you're doing is you are taking

All you're doing is you're organizing your neutral brain. So right now, we're pretty neutral, right, Like, okay, you know it's like it's not third and seventeen and your quarterback didn't just get sacked three times in a row and you have to throw the darn football like you're not. There's no your amygdala's all. We're chill, no fight or flight, right So you you can write out what you would do in these chill situations right now, and you can go through with your team. Hey, this is our prep,

this is how we're doing. That's the little map that you do. So when you're in the it's third and seventeen and you dial up your thing, you're gonna make just a tiny bit quality better decision, a tiny bit beat. So you do it about plays or about players. It's just a strategy beforehand that you that in the heat of the moment, you know what you would you Basically, you're saying to myself, this is what I would do if I was neutral, and you're giving yourself that playbook

for later. It's not it's not prescriptive. It doesn't say this has You're not a robot, right, You're what you're doing is you're making just a slightly better, slightly better decision. How do you use it with players? So with players, you say the goal of analytics is to get It's like, look, we all know who the good players are, and we all know who the bad players are. There's a lot of people who are average in between. That's the law

of averages. And what you really want to do is you want to find those players that are kind of in the middle. But in my system, oh they're better than in the middle. Right, So I find my kind of guy. What does that mean? I need a guy. Some teams don't play with a fullback, other teams do. If you use that, some teams use heavier sets, so you need a different type of tight end. This is a really good strong tight end class. But some of them are different. Some of them are more pass catchers

and others are blockers. Not everyone's kind of everything. Right, So you have to say, I need you to do this, and in my system, your skill set is better than in another system a team. If I'm playing for the Titans, it's a totally different look than the Kansas City Chiefs, totally different strategy. So you need to your my you need to fit my system. I need to identify the trades and a player that fit my system. So when we're talking about analytics, we are not talking about some

nebulous No, it's not black strategy whatever. This is an organization of information. It's just or and it's organizing your own information. Okay, Right, Like I'm sitting next to a coach right here, Coach Matt, what is okay other than kneel down victory formation? Sir, what's your favorite play in football? It depends on the situation. I mean it seriously does and it depends on the situation. Yeah, and here's what I want. Here's what The things that you do are fascinating.

And I've been doing this for a long time. I don't understand the resistance it's you know what it is because here, where does that come from. There's a couple of things, there's a lot, there's there's a lot of BS analytics people because it's really we all get we get frustrate. Look, look, every every human being gets frustrated when like you're not listened to or not hurt. And

by the way, it's not new analytics. It's what you need to have is and often a lot of people who are Matthey like me, were not always extroverts or the best at like I'm an introvert that has trained myself to be an extrovert. Right, So what what you have to do is you have to watch yourself. Being on TV is actually very helpful because I can watch myself be like, oh that was cringeworthy, Like don't do

that again. Right, But when you're when you're giving your analytics present, you get nervous, so you get whatever, and the coaches like just spit it out, and everyone wants things fast, and you you it's so sometimes and so it's very easy to get lazy with it and be like that one's better. Why But because the analytics say so, see, And that's a great explanation because as long as I've done this, which right, thirty seven years in this league, you know, coach for thirty one every time it's good.

You started at five, so I started five years older. So infect the when when this thing, when this thing comes in, I had never understood. And you know, I was way old school when I started, because that's the way it was. I don't under I have never understood the resistance to it. So with organizations, I'd never have understood the resistance to it. Because but I think your explanation out there in the general ether zone is not

what people think as to what you're saying. So do you know that the reason that I even got into this was because of Russ Grim and when he was when he was an O line coach at the tendency, tame us very well. He told me there was nothing I could do that would ever be useful to him. He said that, Yeah, great, which doesn't surprise me. No, how did this come up? Yeah, we're sitting there, We're

sitting at the Good Combine. A lot of years ago, when I was still in sort of in finance and I was I learned how to code, I thought maybe i'd get into like cap right, so I wrote computer code because you're just doing a lot faster than like manually going through everything. And you, by the way, you remember things. If you organize data, you can remember it either turns out, so if you stay organized, it's a little easier. And I was like, there's got to be something.

I was like, what's what's the biggest What's like something that's very hard for you to figure out. He's like, who's a waste beender? There were I'm trying not to swear because rest was a little headsome bleep bleeps in the Yeah, so I'm trying to like quote him, but to anyway, So we were talking and I was like, I'm going to figure out how to tell you who a waste spender is. So I spent my entire rest of my master's thesis. Let's let's make clear to the

listeners waste bender. That's what you're saying. Yeah, So basically, who has unfavorable leverage for an alignment? Like if you stand up too high then you get your knees to it. Just you're not good for your quarterback, right, so you need you need someone who can stay low. That's That's all I want. He wanted to figure out. So it was pretty it's the rest of my master's thesis. He owes me a lot of money. I'm still paying my student loans of RUSS Are you listening. I need some

I need that student loans. Please collect it seriously. But I what I figured out was there are a few things that help determine if a lineman I couldn't figure out for a center because it's very hard to measure them with computer vision whatever. But wastebenders their first ten yards split of their forty, they can keep their butts within like a two inch rage. It's it's insane how accurate it is. It's insane. But it took me a it took me a lot of money, time and effort.

Like but see before you before you put all of the analytics to it, I mean I've watched I've been at every combine, and you watched the ten yards and that it makes sense as to what you're saying when you start to look at and I mean, and you know, but the way you explain that, if you can do it mathematically, which a lot of us can't, Uh, why not at least look at it. So here's here's the thing. Yeah, you knew at that at that combine, it was Jack Conklin.

You knew Jack Conklin was going to be good. He he was not a waste spender in college. His Michigan State film showed it, and then he didn't hit his first The first ten split also proved it. But the thing that was interesting going back is those guys who are those average guys, but they can keep their butt down, they turn out to be better because you know the good you already knew Jack Hunt. Yeah, but there you go. But this is why we have run in the show.

We don't say butts near enough on the podcast. Just a note for everybody. And that's why she's here. You win, You've won the prize, and that's that's why that's why she's owed money. But really, you can apply this to so many different aspects of this game, not just from a strategy standpoint, but from a player evaluation standpoint, which

is what we're all doing here right now. Is this something that is around the NFL and we just don't hear about it, or is this kind of a new it's not anology is not the right word, but a new concept. So the technology has empowered us to do it a bit faster because before for it was very manual. You have to watch all these guts. Now what you can do is instead you can say, hey, I want to to check out all of the potential right tackles right,

and I already know Jack Conklin's good. I know this is a long time ago my example, but you know it's like it's like, instead of instead of going through thirty, you tell me you want a guy who has a lot of experience against you know, in run blocking situations. They've played a lot of you know, against a lot of really good edge whatever. You give me the formula exactly whole thing, and then I can give you instead

of looking through thirty, here's five. Here's five and start with these and if you don't like these, we'll go back to the drawing board. But let's make it easier on ourselves. And the technology has enabled us to do it faster. So as data has become more and more available, useful and like prevalent around the entire NFL and also at the college level, and you can use that data more.

And all it is is it's you know, like in the light when we used to have to go to the library and you go to like the Dewey decimal system like Nature books that way, you know, like that's all analytics is. Instead of going through the whole library and be like I don't know where to start, you get a little bit of like a it's just like, let's narrow down all of the work you have to do it work smarter, not more, right, Like, let's use

the technology to narrow down the field of options. So I'm deciding between five things instead of thirty, you know, on multiple choice tests when you're like on the SAT, they're like, if you can just guess, if you can, there's five, narrow it down. Now you've gone from a twenty if you have five options to twenty percent, thirty three and a third. Now I've just increased my odds of guessing, right, right, that's all you're doing. That's beautiful. Yeah,

I'm trying to make it easy. I think so much harder. Cynthia here, but thank you for that. My brain is smoking. Okay, that's sorry, I love it. Well, we've got to let her go, though, I know I'll come. I'll come back any you'll come back an Cynthia NFL network number and butts Well, okay, God she can say, you're gonna drop that on Rachel Bannette on, by the way, the greatest greatest duo in television right now outside of Shack and Charles Barkley. Oh you know that's huge. Yes, yes, I do.

I mean it's it is fantastic television. Thanks so much for George. Appreciate you guys, Thanks for having me. Great stuff. It's halftime of the OTP presented by Duncan. Duncan has a new rewards program, Amy, what do you think it's called rewards. It's just Duncan rewards, that's right. And these are rewards you can really use. No, really, I'm not kidding. Even though I'm a kidder. Save them, save them, big

kidder does it. It does right here, Save them, stack them, use them, however you want, use the free points to get a donut, a free coffee, a breakfast sandwich, an ice latte for Rhett Brian to say, yes, sir, Rhett, thanks for sitting in on another edition of the OTP that you won't be compensated for joint trying today on the Duncan app and start saving and stacking your way to free. Duncan America runs on Duncan terms apply. Boy, Duncan got their money's worth with that one. Duncan gets

their money's worth on the OTP. That was phenomenal, solid effort,

solid read, solid read. I think about as we moved to the last segment of this edition of the OTP from the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, you think about the great writers of the NFL, and Rick Goslin from Dallas is your friend and so good, and Dan Pompeii from Chicago is so good, and I mean, you've just known so many of them over the years, and they don't realize what they mean to us commoners, your royalty because you have coached in the league for a long

time and you know everybody, and you have those sorts of relationships to those of us who didn't start our professional lives in the NFL, or really and you worked your way up. I'm not intimating that you didn't, but it seems so far away if you lived in Tennessee and to get to read people in the sports illustrated in the Sporting News, whatever, they brought you closer to a game that you thought was like a solar system away.

And as the team got to Tennessee. It all became real, and so it's funny when you see and meet these people now, it kind of flips you out a little bit. And one of the people I'm talking about is Judy Bautista. She wrote for Newsday, she wrote for the New York Times, and then she's been with NFL Media for almost ten years now. One of the best from the jump, incredible sources, great stories. Another brilliant person. By the way. Yeah, she's

not a little bit smart, she's a lot a lot smart. Yeah. Well, we had a chance to visit with Judy Battista, and uh, it was pretty thrilling for me because I have been reading Judy Battista now for over thirty years. I mentioned that to her and she slapped me. Yes, she did not love that. Actually, I think she's okay. Maybe you should use Dunkan rewards on her. Yeah, I bought her a coffee. Actually that's not true. I'm a kidder. She

was just lovely. She was. She was exactly what I hope she would be, very cool and very appreciative that people had had read her work over the years and that it had brought them into the game. When I was not working in the NFL meant a lot, and then as I got into the NFL, those people meant even more because you're in the process of figuring out what am I doing here? It was very different from

college and and that's and that's obvious. So Judy Battista from the NFL Network and NFL Media took the time to stop by talk some topics and here she is on the o T Judy Batista, I guess technically from NFL media, is that how we say? I think that's probably the parent twenty thirteen. Most of us know you from Newsday and then the New York Times, though that was a long time ago. Now almost ten years. Wow.

Some of us are a little older. Some of us might fanboy out because when we were not with an NFL team, we read all of the things that you wrote for years, and then when you became national, having a chance to follow what you've did, you have You've seen a lot in thirty plus years. Wow, now I feel old. But yes, all right, what do you put it that where it's like cheeze? Yeah, the NFL has changed this event as like is insane? How different this is? Now? I want you to take I'm gonna follow here. Amy

Wells is sitting right here. Look, kid, all of the women I mean here in sort of the team pit over on the radio side, where it's it's local radio stations, the TV people that are here, the TV people that you work with. There are females in personnel offices. There are females on coaching staffs. We have one with the Titans. Can you believe it in a way based on your start and how you were probably one of about four. Yeah,

there weren't too many. To me. The most amazing thing is the women on the personnel side and on the coaching side, Because I frankly wasn't sure that was ever going to happen. That took a lot of effort. I mean, it takes people like Ron Rivera and Brian Aball and like free Ball who like give women coaches the opportunity. That was something I wasn't sure it was going to happen. There were always a few women in the media, obviously many many more now and still not enough. Yeah, fair enough.

I agree with she's said, I'm still sitting here, so well, that's okay, Mike. You're very nice. See we keep you around just for fun. But happening here in Indianapolis. Just speaking of women, there's the NFL Women's Forum that's happening

right now. That's a great initiative by the National Football League to try and incorporate more women and give them the opportunity to kind of get in those spaces and meet other people who are having these jobs that aren't just in media but are in personnel and opts and things like that. How great is that initiative and kind

of perpetuating pushing the cause. I guess yeah. I actually stopped by one of it, one of those events yesterday, and it was there was a panel discussion of women who are in coaching and on the personal side, and all the women in the audience were like working in those kinds of similar roles in the colleges. That I was sort of like, Wow, there's that many women working in the college game. You know, that was impressive and you know, and trying to find the avenue in like

where does your career path go? You know, But I was sort of taking back by how many women there were, because again we're on the media side, so we see the media part of it most of all. In like, you know, you sort of know one or two like coach Low and you know, but to see those sort of numbers who are coming up, that was impressive and hopeful. And Judy, you mentioned her right there. Laurie Locus, the newest one of the newest coaching hires by by Mike

Rabelin's Titans staff, was on that panel. She seems well received wherever she is, already has a huge profile and level of respect. Yeah, I covered her. I wrote a story, Um, well, it's a few years ago now about how incredibly diverse Bruce Arian's staff was at the Bucks. When he got to the Bucks, Laurie was on that staff. They have a female trainer who actually has a much better title than trainer. It's more exalted. She's got much more power and influence than that. And then he had a number

of black coaches on the staff. But so I've known Laurie since then then, like like I'm impressed with her sticktuitiveness, Like because I think that's what if you're a woman in that part of the business, Like you really have to want to do it, because I am sure right, it's not a smooth career path and like there's just not that sort of Um the ends that you know, men have and they've been in the same circles for years.

That just doesn't exist for women. So you have to really want to do it, and she really wants to do it. I think. Yeah. I think we're all policed who've worked in the league for a long time at the at the issues that have been attacked about diversity that are still being sort of attack that still need to be attacked. But in the end, this about winning.

And when you hear Laurie Locusts, former defensive lineman the Dama Consus and guys of that ILK say she made me a better player, that has to come too, and she's got that on her resume. Yes, those guys. I talked to those guys when she was at the books and she was a coach right, right, They did not, you know, I'm sure after the initial days, right, the first few days where they were probably like, well this

is different. After that, I mean, she was a coach, right, She was yelling at them and she was showing them technique like you she's a coach, yeah, And I think that's what will happen in Tennessee. Right, She's a coach and for the league to be creating those opportunities for people to get in the room, to get in that space, to be able to earn the right to not be a woman in this place, to not be kind of an extra who's been given a shot, you know, and be a story, to be a coach, to be someone

who deserves to be there. It's nice to finally see that those opportunities are becoming available to get in improve yourself. Well, I think the best thing will be when we stop writing stories and stop talking about it, right when it's commonplace enough that you know, Brian day Ball has a woman on his staff, and I live in New York and so everybody talked about that for a while, like first time there was a woman on the Giants coaching staff.

And it's like, well, the real, the real accomplishment is going to be when we stop. There's having to mention it, right, right, So let's talk league. Okay, when does the Washington thing? And there's so many parts of it, That's why I say, when does the Washington thing get resolved? I don't think there was some hope that it would be at the annual meeting at the end of March. I don't think it'll happen then, I mean they're in the process of taking bids. That's never a fast process, even under the

best of circumstances. You go through several rounds. They have to be vetted, right, the league has to make sure this is what you want and that it has to be approved by the owners. So I think we're still a ways away from the team changing hands. I mean, there are so many other ten drils to that story that I you know, there's an investigation going on that the League is doing into the conduct, including Daniel Snyder's conduct at the Commanders. We've been told that's close to completion,

but I don't know what that means. You know what we're out yesterday about it. It's been you know, that investigation has been going on for more than a year. It's started at last year's Super Bowl, so that's been going on for more than a year. There's a lot of complex financial issues that are being looked at, very complex, So I think it's going to be a while until

we get all of those kinds of answers. If we ever get all of those kinds of answers, I mean, part of it, I think is going to be wrapped up in the sale and I think if they can get the sale finished, I'm not sure we will ever get all of the answers. That's what the owners want, rather than to have to make a decision on Daniel Snyder's right, the league would much prefer like an orderly transfer to a new owner, right Like, just first of all, that franchise is going to draw what we think is

going to be a record setting sale price. Right It's a run down franchise in a huge market that a lot of it is untapped because of the way it's been operated. So yes, they would prefer and orderly transfer. They don't want to have to take a vote to vote him out. They're angry enough that I think they have the votes to vote him out, but they certainly don't want to have to go down that path. That's a messy. That's even messier than the situation is right now.

In the meantime, as they are trying to sort all this up as an organization, how do you move forward with all these things looming? I mean, Ron Rivera has all of this on, has played and credit to him for keeping that team like you know, with the blinders on, and you know last year, I mean they were in the mix, and I give him a lot of credit

because it cannot be easy. You know, I don't know how much players are paying attention to, you know, all of this kind of stuff, but everybody who works in the office is aware of it, right And certainly everybody is aware that the team could change hands, and we all know that new owners tend to change a lot of things. So I'm sure people are concerned about the future. But again, credit to Ron Rivera for you know, steering

the ship ahead and just keep going. I'll stay with the Washington Commanders for a moment because a few days ago you had a nice column on NFL dot com about your potential list of franchise tag candidates, and we're a few days left in that before teams can make those decisions. The first one to fall was to Ron Payne of the Washington Commanders. Who do you think, just in your opinion, is the next Domado to fall? Obviously

there's some really big names on that list. When you're talking about Lamar Jackson, Daniel Jones, what do you think, Well, the Lamar Jackson situation is the most interesting thing I think other than Aaron Rodgers this offseason, that is the most fascinating situation, and because it's like oddly tense, it seems like like just like, wow, this is sort of sideways in a way you didn't expect it to be. I don't I don't know if that's the next one

that will happen. The Giants, I can tell you, really do not want to have to use the franchise tag on Daniel Jones. They really would like to get a contract done with him, and they are cautiously optimistic that they will get a contract on And part of the reason why they want it done with him is because they want to have the franchise tag in their back pocket if they can't get a deal done with sae

Quon Barkley, they would like to keep both of them. Obviously, if you have there's no question Daniel Jones will be with the team. If they can't get the contract on, they will franchise tag him. But that exposes sae Quon Barkley if you can't get a deal done, So it's gonna it's an interesting week there. They are cautiously optimistic

they will get both of them done, though. You know, a former agent, Joel Corey I think, put a post out saying that if the Baltimore Ravens put him as the exclusive franchise tag and then tagged him again in twenty twenty four, it's ninety nine million dollars flat money. Right, There's it's like getting a huge deal, just not exactly what he wants in terms of what'smen reported as a

guaranteed contract. Right. What's so interesting about this situation is if you're the Baltimore Rave sense, you have one of the premier talents in the league. If you why why are things so bad? Like? I know he wants the guaranteed contract, but like the idea that you could lose this guy, Like, how how are we at this point? Um? You know, and the Baltimore Ravens are a very well

run organization, very well run organization. That this has sort of gone sideways so far is sort of mystifying to me and I and I and I understand why the Ravens, you know, um, their owner When when Deshaun Watson got the fully guaranteed deal from the Browns, uh, the owner of the Baltimore Ravens was the owner who spoke up publicly blasting that like fully guaranteed And here we know why because he knew this was going to impact their

situation with Lamar. Um. I don't know how the contract situation, And it's unfathomable to me that Lamar Jackson would not be with the Baltimore Ravens. But you know who knows, I mean, and I never imagined it would be where it is right now. That was the discussion with the three of us, with Mike and Amy and I in the car on the way up to Indianapolis, were like, how did they get to this point? Well, he wants

the kind of guarantees that Deshaun Watson got. The reality is, and I understand why he wants that, But none of the other quarterbacks whose contracts have been done since the Deshaun Watson deal, the big deals have had the same guarantees have been fully guaranteed. That doesn't mean Lamar shouldn't ask for it. Everybody should ask for it. They should all ask for it. It doesn't mean you're gonna get

it though, right. The problem is what happens? What happens if they franchise dead, Like, would they entertain offers from other teams to I mean again wow, because there would certainly be other teams, all right? One follow up and then I'm sorry I'm hogging questions here, but I wanted to follow up with this, is it? What is your opinion that Deshaun Watson might be the last guaranteed quarterback deal or guarantee a period ever? Nah, I feel I feel like somebody else will get it um at some point.

I'm just saying this hypothetically. But the next time that they have to do Patrick Mahomes contract, ye, is there any I mean, what would you like Patrick? Okay, the agents for Justin Berbert and those I don't know if, but but like you've got Burrow coming up. I mean, what if if he's you know, dug in and said I want that, what would the Bengals do? I mean, yeah, right from him, he's from Ohio, different, he's taking you

to the super Bowl. They brag on him more than I've ever seen any team brag on a quarterback in recent memory. Normally teams don't talk that way about their own guy like they talk about Joe Burrow. He's special. It's obviously a special situation because of Ohio. But like, you know, so if he dug in and said, like, well, I want the Deshaun Watson kind of deal. But with the Bengals, do let it walk out the door? Right?

You have to keep him right, he's he's everything. Well and to your point, Patrick Mahomes says, I would like all of this money and my own island. Whatever. Yeah, whichever one you want, talk to your real estate agent. Has this been one of the stranger off seasons in terms of quarterback stories throughout the NFL just because not necessarily the volume of quarterbacks that are making moves, but kind of odd circumstances surrounding a lot of different quarterbacks

throughout the league. I feel like the last few years have been strange with quarterback. There's been there's been a lot of quarterback movement right where you think of that position doesn't really move that much, but there's been a lot of high end right. I think I think it started when when Tom Brady left New England. Right, that was that was the COVID season, Right, that was twenty to twenty. So that's where I've that was like the start of this sort of bizarre cycle of like top

end quarterbacks like in some sort of flux. And we're in that situation now with Aaron Rodgers were like, right, you're waiting for his decision before all of the other dominoes can fall into plays like right, like, we have no idea what Derek Carr, what's gonna happen with Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo, any of the others until Aaron Rodgers decides what's going on there? You live in New York, You've covered New York. Could Aaron Rodgers play in New York

with his sensitivity factor? I was just talking to people from the Jets about that. Well, what did you tell Well? I said, it would be really interesting as somebody who used to cover the Jets, it would be really interesting to see that dynamic. Having said that, listen, he can he can still play, and if he can still play the way Aaron Rodgers kind of like, nothing else will matter because listen, the Brett Farve thing was nuts when Farv went to the Jets and was not still the

player that Aaron Rodgers still is. And for the first half of the season before Brett Farv got hurt, like it was a Jetstown people were nuts and it was great and then he got hurt and things fell apart. But if Aaron Rodgers can play at that level, I mean, it's been a long time since there's been a start like that in New York. So yes, I think, I mean,

the relationship with the media would be really interesting. Really what you're going back to Mike's point about it's about winning, but it's about winning and if you're winning, and I think, look, they have a lot of young talent, and last year I was around that team, if they had had even

marginally consistent quarterback play, they would have made the playoffs. Well, and the station the statement was made, and I apologize for not giving credit to the person who tweeted this out, but Derek Carrs team Defense Slash Special Teams DVOA in his nine years with the Raiders was thirty second in the league. Last year, the New York Jets team EVOA

with defense and special teams combined was fifth. Yeah, So that was the That was the argument for Derek Carr, and obviously it would be an argument for Aaron Rodgers because Robert Sala's teams are going to play good defense and gonna play good special teams. Last year, if Mike White had not gotten hurt, they would have gone to

the playoffs. Right, Like Mike White was playing well enough, the defense was playing very well, and they had enough young talent and they're going to get more back from injury this year that they would have been a playoff team last year if the quarterback play could have just like if you just didn't have some of those games where you're watching going like, oh my god. I mean the game against Jacksonville that was a Thursday night game

in the rain. I was covering that game and that I mean, you're just watching it like, how could an NFL team have such disastrous quarterback play? If you have even average quarterback play, they are a playoff team. So I mean to have Derek Carr and Rogers with the young talent, that's very interesting. Can we talk competition committee while we have Judy Batista here, because that feels like

something that we would be lacking if we didn't. Um we had the chance to talk to Mike Rabel about that a little bit and everything that they've been working on. Owners meetings are coming up at the end of the month and that's when we see a lot of the rule changes in everything. But officiating has been such a big topic of conversation, not only throughout the league, yeah, but within the within that room. What has struck you about maybe their concentrated effort on really trying to standardize

officiating a little bit more. Their big thing is they want officiating to be consistent across the cruise, right, so that you don't have one crew that looks at uh, you know, roughing the passer one way and then another crew that is aiating in it an entirely different way. They at least want it to be consistent, right. This year they brought they brought officials into the room with

the Competition Committee to go over watching film. They do a ton of training that I was told that the competition Committee is happy with the amount of training they get. They really don't think you know, everybody talks about should they be full time. It's essentially a full time job the amount of training they do and the amount of review they do. So I don't think that's an issue for the competition Committee. I think consistency across the cruise

is an issue and that they want to solve. But listen, I mean, I've said this a lot. The league will take officiating controversies like I think they would like, you know, they would like officials to not get blasted, but it's a human part of the game right. It's they're not going to robots right, It's just not going to happen. You're going to have the human element. There are a lot of judgment calls. They tried to make pass interference reviewable. It was a disaster. They got rid of that. Some

people want roughing the pastor to be reviewable. They really don't want to do that for the same reason. So I think we're all as fans going to have to accept that, Like it's a game officiated by humans. The fact that they get as many calls right in real time is amazing when you go back and look at it, and I mean, like you know, sometimes you're watching the play and you're like, wow, how the heck did they

get that right? The players are so fast. So the bottom line in this, it sounds like to me, is you can only do so much refinement to rules because obviously what you're trying to do at the end of the day is trying to not leave it open to interpretation that it's cut, dried, black and white, whatever you

want to call it. One of the things that they say year after year after year is as you refine the rules, you're actually making it more difficult for the officials, right, because there's just more that they have to look for more. And so I'll give you an example, the drop hip tackle that everybody has talked about in the last few weeks. Chuck Mahomes got hurt on it in the game against Jacksonville, So there's a question about should that be taken out

of the game. And one of the points that Troy Vincent made was can officials even see that in real time? Or would you have to replay to even see it happening? Like horse collar tackles were easy, right, you can see the hand get into the back and pull them back. You can see that, Like could you even see if you write in real time? If that's that's hard? And so they always say the rule book is so voluminous and hard, like do you really want to add another

element like that? All right? So I want to ask you about a couple fourth and fifteen instead of on side kick. Does it have a chance. I don't think it'll be approved, but it's gonna be. I believe it's going to be proposed again. It picked up incremental support the last time it was on I think it was twice. It's been proposed, so I don't think it will be approved.

But another concern, by the way, is the number of concussions that happen on special teams play, so they're gonna have to They're gonna have to get creative with special teams play because those numbers are high and they're not coming down, so they've got to figure that out. The quarterback sneak push, does it get out lawed? I think

it will not get out lawed. I think the argument is going to be stop it, first of all, but how do you stop Well, I think what you're gonna see is defenses go to school on it in this offseason, and unfortunately, I think what you're gonna see is they're gonna put their defensive tackles in and then you're gonna have linebackers pushing, which is going to be dangerous, right, and the first time the quarterback gets hurt doing it is going to be the last time it gets called

or a lot that's what we'll get it out of the game, or a lineman gets knocked out, right. But I mean, if you have God forbid, I don't want Jalen Hurts to be in this situation. But if the Eagles run that play with Jayala hurts and they're pushing, and then the opposing team has their defensive tackles in the middle and the linebackers pushing. That's a dangerous play, and so I think unfortunately, I think the first time somebody gets hurt doing it is going to be the

last time that play gets called. But offensive coaches don't want it out of the game because they say, think of all the other plays that can develop out of it. You line up as if you're going to do that, and then you know, you pitch it out and do whatever. So I think it I don't think it'll be outlawed. I just think teams are defenses are going to figure out a way to stop it, and that will naturally evolve it out. I don't think it's a football play.

I think it's an ugly play and it's the aesthetics of it that I think, but some people in the NFL don't. I don't think the design of a football play it should be guys to push guys. That's rugby, right, And I know football comes from rugby and comes from soccer and comes from other things, but I when I watch that, I just don't That's what bothers me about it, because it's like it's a big time gimmick that that

doesn't fit what the spirit of the game. But we have seen gimmicks in the NFL, and they sort of naturally evolve out of it, right because defenses figure out how to stop it. Defenses will figure out how to stop this, and that will something else will grow out of it. But that's again the hope is that what this play is not a quarterback getting injured by like, you know, two thousand pounds of humanity pushing against him.

You're an optimist, unfortunately. How did you come to love football? Oh? Wow? Uh? I grew up in South Florida at a time when there were no other professional sports in South Florida, so you had Yankees and Mets spring training. They still did spring training in South Florida, so you had that. Um and I'm from New York originally, so we still loved the New York baseball teams, and then football was at

The Dolphins were awesome. Then Don Shula and Bob Greasy and then of course they got Dan Marino when I was a little bit older, so that when you went to the U and I went to you during the greatest period ever, Oh, but so much fun. Yes, and so football was just awesome, you know it was. That's why watched a lot of it because I'm a fan. Thank you for this great to thank you guys time. Absolutely, You're awesome at what you do and you have been for a long time. I hope you keep doing it

for a long time. Thank you very much. Good to be with you, guys, and I'll see you in a few more weeks. We'll be there, possible. Well, what all comes tomorrow? We've got quarterbacks on the way. Well well, well, yes, at the podium on Friday and then on Saturday they work out, right, who has the bigger podium crowd? Anthony Richardson or By Young He's a much bigger college star, So I think little guy, Well, yeah, everybody's talked about.

We talked with someone last night who stood next to him, and this person was five ten on a good day and claimed that they were taller. Wow. So I mean, what he's going to measure on Saturday is going to be really interesting. And I know, listen, I get that he will have gained weight. You know who doesn't gain weight an indie this week? Well that's true, but really that's a different topic. But it's still not going to change his frame. That's the That's the thing is his

frame is still gonna be his frame. And he's just not a big person. I mean, he's just he's just not a big, thick guy, no matter how tall he is. So I think that's gonna be fascinating to see. The thing that we're hearing that's really interesting is a lot of the will Levis talk going up. Mike will Levis did not have a good year this year at Kentucky, but that did not dampen his NFL talk much at all because of the traits that he has and also

because how scarce those guys are in the draft. Well, so the comparison we heard from somebody who knows some stuff is Matt Ryan, with the idea being that coming out of Boston College, he was this big guy, he was a smart guy. He had played a lot of football, and his last year he threw too many interceptions and everybody was very concerned. But he had no weapons, and Kentucky was not as good a team offensively in twenty twenty two as they were in twenty twenty one. No,

and that's a great I mean it's a great comparison. Yes, and so you, as I say, with the two drafts that there are. Quarterback being a separate entity doesn't surprise me at all. In the circles I talk in because people don't care. Don't care. I think he's gonna end up here in Indianapolis because I think strap out or younger going one, two, and then I think he's going to end up at either three or four. If Indianapolis moves up a spot or note, I think this is

where he's gonna end up. I would not put any money against that, Mike. I think we may be playing against Will Levice for the next fifteen years. Red Bryan, I don't like that, but I can't know anything. You don't like that or something. There's some people listening to that this right now. Some of the OT people like that because they are convinced he is way overrated. Well,

let me just talk talk to those people. For the OT people, he will not bringing the offensive line he played behind in college, and Indie has a good Indie has one of the better offensive lines in the in the league. It's a whole different set of circumstances. But this guy's physical ability and he's got some gun slinger in him. This year he was slinging it too much because he had to do everything. If it comes to Indie,

we're going on Mike Key's proposition here. You won't have to do everything, just do a little bit pretty good. If the Levis love raises to a different level, there's a lot of l's there. Go ahead. That was by design, right, he's a broadcaster, radio thing try to do. He's a kid, He's a kitterer. I'm a kidder. If it rises a lot, don't be surprised this weekend. That's what we're hearing is that you're going to hear a lot of people really say nice things about Will Levis. And it's not because

teams are just figuring it out. It's because the people who cover the teams are figuring out that the teams like Will Levis better than they think. Yeah, I think after tomorrow is going to be an interesting day. After he is able to speak to the media and as a delightful person and people can fall in love with him. And then he goes and they do all the measurements and he's big and he looks the part. Then he's a nice boy and he's big and strong, and then

he throws a ball around a little bit. I mean because he is going to throw, because he is going to throw, and so you'll be able to see that aspect of it. I think there's a lot of room for him to make some money this week. Um. But again that a lot of that is because it's going to be new information to us, not necessarily because it's new information for the teams. The clubs already know. That's

not new information, right, It's correct. They are aware of who he is, very aware, yes, very aware, and they have done their due diligence very much so and are going to continue to do their due dialace very much. Us love levitating, Let us love. If you need a there are a lot of I'm telling you, man, you talk to some of my sec friends, Oh he garbage? Well well, and these are people who know some things too. They're just convinced that he's Oh are ain't told a

mild But what happens after that? Yeah? Well, I mean, I mean Kentucky was overhyped this year, isn't the team? They weren't that good and coming off the ten win season, they were supposed to be good again, and then Chris Rodriguez has the problem and can't play to start the year, and people don't realize what they had used in the offensive line. And I mean no offense to Kentucky or to Mark Stoops, but he's not reloading like Nick saban is. He's not reloading like Kirby smart Is. He's got a

good program in place, but it's it's not that. And so when you lose some of those old linemen like they did, and receivers and people, I mean, it makes a difference. You know. I had the chance to talk to coach Stoops about that exact thing, actually, because I, through a series of events, was one of the sideline

reporters for the Music City Bowl. Kentucky's playing in the Music City Bowl, so I had the chance to talk to him about that, and he was adamant that what makes their program unique is that they just can't recruit like an Alabama, They can't recruit like an LSU, and so they don't have that unbelievable depth at every single position. He says, it's to their benefit almost because they're able to invest in players and they have a great character

on their program. And there's so many other things, but when you have a really great year and then you lose a bunch of seniors, or you lose a bunch of guys to the transfer portal, you are hurting because

you just don't have the people. And you've got a lot of guys behind them that will be good by the time they get to their junior senior years, but all of a sudden, you're having to fill a void, not with a really good junior who anywhere else would have been a starter or two years ago, you're filling it with a freshman sophomore who still needs a lot of development. And it makes things a little trickier for programs that are recruiting in the SEC against these really

big schools. Well, the credit goes to Mitch Barnhardt, the athletic director, because he gave Mark Stoops time to build this sort of program. And that's the key in those situations, especially when you're non traditional. If you get time to where you can still red shirt people, you can still put in the time in the weight room, you can still develop. I mean, you look at kirk Ferens at Iowa,

I mean they are that consistent program. I mean I would say if Kentucky looks to model themselves after a program. Iowa is a great model that you recruit a guy who maybe was going to be a tight end and he grows into aligneman and you take that time because and listen, they recruit a lot better than they used to. I mean, Mark Stoops has done an amazing job, but it's not five star, five star, five star, four star. It's just not who they are. And that was what

Levis played with this year. He clearly, whether you think he's overrated or not, you can't deny his cast around him was not as good. And also he lost his offensive coordinator. He was there one year, came from the Rams, went back to the Rams, and oh, by the way, he's back at Kentucky. Right exactly, he's back at Kentucky. But can I just say something, sure That boots on the ground analysis that we just got from our own Amy Wells was outstanding. It's just a conversation I had once, No,

but it was it was. I'm just happy to share it with the OTP. You can't get boots on the ground stuff like that anywhere, only on the OTP. We've got a lot of boots here on this program. Look at all of us we got boots on a lot of different grounds. Yes, why you tune in, that's exactly right, and and thank you for listening. If you have not had a chance to listen to the OTP all the time, well get on that, um subscribe. Subscribe to the OTP at to see Titans dot com or wherever you get

your podcasts. We appreciate the great feedback. Tomorrow's OTP is awesome. Yes, Charles Davis from NFL Network from CBS Sports just did the Super Bowl so good. Justin Reid from ESPN, and I know the two of you love this guy as a draft analyst. Ratte you and coach Mack who knows what he's doing. He does, and I've been watching him

for a while. He was with another organization called the Draft Network, and then Mac and I first met him up here three four years ago, and he is you say it, well, he's quickly becoming a star in this He's played the game in college and has an eye for it and I really like his analysis. It was just a great conversation. And that's tomorrow on the OTP.

We're gonna keep dropping him tomorrow all weekend into early next week, and so make sure you subscribe, and as we used to say, tell a friend that's I guess you could tweet a friend, or you could text a friend, or or you could send a friend to link DM a friend a link. Yeah, yeah, it would really, it would really help us. Amy and I get five dollars for each subscriber added, so it really it's so really valuable. Yesterday we made fifteen dollars. Thank you, very awesome. It

was really great. Paid for our steak and shake, didn't it. But you buy everybody else food, So there we go, there we go. All right, So that does it for this edition of the Official Titans Podcast. For coach Dave McGinnis, for Rhett Brian, for Amy Wells, I'm Mike Keith and this has been from Indianapolis, Indiana. The oh everbody knows it's our house making three greenness