This is the OTP presented by Farm Bureau Health Plans. Plan on paying less for the coverage you need with Farm Bureau Health Plans. Get a quote today at FBHP dot com. I Mike Keith and excited to talk with someone who, when I was a young man starting to follow the NFL, was a player that we were always excited to see, a player that we looked up to. Billy White Shoes Johnson joins me on the OTP. Sir, it is a pleasure to have you here. Thanks for joining us.
Well, thank you. It's good to be here and good to be seeing these days.
All right, So I have to ask this question. Do you ever wear anything other than white shoes?
No, I don't. Earlier on I might have, but after second or third yeah, I don't think I have.
But in your like in your wardrobe, do.
You know when your white shoes Johnson, you have to wear white shoes, right, exactly? Exactly. I mean, people look at you like you got two heads if I don't have white shoes, and then they get to the point where you know, sometimes you can have a little bit of blue in the back of the shoe. That's not an all white shoes. I said, man, I can't win. But yeah, it's only white shoes.
So how did you become white shoes? Johnson?
I was the president of the Pat Boom Club. We were white bucks. I'm lying.
I know about the white that's good.
I started just to be different in high school because that's at that time everybody was wearing black shoes, and its kind of redundant to me, and I just want to do a little flash. So we were sitting on our front porch. I guess one day a good friend of ours came up to me while I was out there. I'm young and impressionable. He asked me, if you think you're so good, why don't you wear white shoes like Joe Willie.
Name it well, because he was the guy.
He was the guy who were those.
White spot builts were so sweet.
Yeah, they were nice. And see what I did when I got my shoes. Finally I had Kangaroo. Remember the kangaroo was a little bit best step up from spot built, but we were able to get some and I took him to a nice little cobbler who dyed those shoes. I mean he stripped the shoe and then he died and die on it and he taught me how to do it. So my senior year was my junior year. My senior year, he did two pairs and I did one pair, but he and he did that, and so
what happened. We went to a game and we played the best defense in our county and I had a good game. And it was a homecoming game. So they says blazon Billy white shoes something something the crowd on mothers on the parents' Day, which was a big headline. And I thought it was hoky at that time on white shoes and ever since then and ever since that game, but I had that good game and theyd me call me white shoes. Now. My coach didn't care too much for it.
At first because it was too showy.
Too showy, and he's the kind of guy, no frills, no thrill, right, But when I went to training camp and I wore them one day and he came after a second, third or fourth day, two days and we're going to have a scrimmage. She said, what's up with the shoes? And for no better reason, I said, and they make me run faster. And he didn't say a word, He just so, okay, lot of I said, So we
had a scrimmage and I had a good game. He never said another word about the shoes, and I'm so thankful that he allowed me to wear them because and you feel good about it, because you know, if you look good, you feel good. That old saying it's true. Even in high school. I knew that. I said, man, just give me a little bit more confidence. It's just
my adulgrum zone. It was something that was different, and you had to play because you're seeing you're the guy out there who's show who's wearing white shoes, and of course they're going to want to stop the wark man, you know, a guy who they might think might be a hot dog. So it made you play harder, train harder so you wouldn't be embarrassed.
It took guts in the late sixties and early seventies that was not done.
Yeah, well, you had to have a little bit of talent, I guess to do that. And our team was talented to the point we didn't window state championship, but we played well.
But you go to Wider College which is now Wider University, correct, and it had been a military school before before you got there. So how did how were you able to keep wearing the white shoes there PMC.
Well, at that time they started being a little they relinquished that strict dressing command. But at that time coach Bill Manluf, which changed the whole history of PMC Widener. He was there and he didn't mind. And it was just as long as you could play and showed toughness, that's all that mattered. And you know you could follow the rules because like I said, I started when it
was PMC and I graduated when it was Widener. So on my diploma it has PMC Widener and which is good because coach Manluff made all difference from me in the world. I was kind of ragged, ignotia, you know, take challenges, a little cocky. I wouldn't I'm never arrogant, but just I like taking challenges, and uh, he was able to. He's such a good person. He was like my dad. He talks something, you do something wrong, and you know you want to hear from me, you say,
oh shoot, a disappointed coach. That's for me. He was that kind of coach for me. And we're still a good best of friends now. And I talked to he and missus man Love Edna let me stay in touch. But he was that kind of coach was really good for me. He to me, he's exemplified what it was like to be a coach.
Now.
He could be tough on you, but he was fair and he had a lot of respect from a lot, not on me, but from a lot of guys on the team. And he was just like that father father figure. And I had a strong father. But I can only imagine if I did something wrong with him. You know, he handled a different way coach man up, a little bit more mild mannered, but no, he was I had so much, the utmost respect for him.
The Oilers drafted you in the fifteenth round in nineteen seventy four. Do you know the story of how they found you? Do you were? Were you made aware of that later on in life.
I think it was Bruce Kebrick who was on a scouting trip. He was up near Temple, and if I'm not mistaken, he said, well, let me go u By. I see this guy because our team, my offensive line was pretty good at that time. I mean, I think they put anybody behind that line and they were done well. And he heard about me, came out and I guess they ran me through the forty and came out on the field to see me do some things on the field, and he said, hey, I like this guy. Now that's
what was told to me. So I'm not sure, but it was because of Bruce Kebrick that I am an oiler.
Well, I mean, let's face it, Widener is more famous for being the school that director says, b.
Yes, so Humphrey bogo. I don't forget that.
A lot of politicians and lawyers and big time people have gone there bets to find you in the fifteenth round and then to bring you in and for you to make the team. How does a fifteenth round pick make a football team?
I think I was blessed. I was truly blessed by God because you're a fifteenth round draft choice. You're a small guy from a small school. You know. It's just the timing was right, and that timing was from the Lord himself. So I take no credits for making it other than being the right place the right time and the Lord putting me there.
And punt returning and kick returning. That was the way in.
That was the way in. I just wanted to get a chance to get the ball anyway I could to prove that I could play with the guys who were let's face, went to bigger schools, had more media attention than myself. Well, I can play just as good as them if given the opportunity, and lo and behold, I was given that opportunity.
Where did the dance come from? And when did it first happen? I know, I know the dance itself was the Funky Chicken?
Yeah yeah, But where did.
It come from in your mind to do that? And where did you first do it?
I first did it? I was you know, at that time college we were playing a rival team of ours and they were a little hoake, they got a little above themselves, you know, and me being always in the entertainment call at that time, I would be hosting my club acts and stuff like that. So I yeah, I had a chance to host Rufus Thomas who made the funky who made the do the funky Chicken? And I'm telling you another lie, So I shouldn't do that. I promised, no more, no more storytelling.
I did that.
I could have happened, yeah, yeah, you're right, Yeah, that's what happened. In the court of blows. It could have happened. I would have never You're right, because it's almost like the truth, you know, but no, what happened, this is true. We were playing a rival ball club of hours and they said some things, which was bulletin board material. And we were sitting in the I think, in the locker room joking and you know, how guys are you push one?
Everybody pushing me envelope, And I said, I'll tell you what. If I were to score, I'm want to dance and I did something and he said, man, you ain't going to do it? I said, man, I am. I really had. I had no real intentions of doing it, but when I scored, I had to do something because you know, you can't live it down. You had been a plug if you had done it at that time and said you're going to do something, didn't do it. So I scored a couple of times, I danced a couple of times,
and I kept my under the bargain. That's how I looked at it. But it just so happened because we had a lot of fun with it. We weren't trying to be a derogatorory in any way, trying to rub their noses in it. We were just having fun it was part of what we did.
And you mentioned your coach, would that you be you?
He would let me be. And that's what I really liked. That's what I really liked. He didn't say anything. There's one time though, he did say, I was really upset at that we were playing the team. I'm not going to mention their names, and they were playing a little dirty because they wanted to get me, you know, and I understand you're a mark man, but I got a little upset. So I broke into the open the field and I sat down and I started slowing down and I pointed at it, which is hot dogish and I'm
really not that player. And he said, why don't you do that? Not in the over animated voice or anything like that. He said, that's not you. He says, you know, don't do that. He says, that's how you get hurt. You set yourself up to get hurt. He said, but you're a better person, the better person than that. Be above that. And I felt about this big. I felt about one inch tall because he was told the truth and I knew better, but I just wanted to get
my point of revenge. I said, what they did to me, you know, trying to poke me in the eye, and you know it's playing a little bit dirty, and they normally wouldn't. But after that, no problems.
Did you know you were going to do that when you got the end zoned when you were with the Oilers, or did it just happen?
It just how I promise you It just happened. Because it happened. And I beat the Steelers, I said, you didn't went and won the Super Bowl seventy four. We had beat the Steelers. I had scored on the end around and Mike Wagner was the last time I had to run past.
Number twenty three.
Yes, yes, sir, yes sir. And I went in there and I automatically did it, and I said, oh shucks. I said, here, I am up here on a big stage and the professional ranks, and I'm being a hot dog. But I wasn't. I went over and I asked him, I'm about that. He said, that's what it takes. I like to see more of it. I wasn't going to go see, said Gilman. At that time he was a
head coach. He probably could care less. Because I got in the end zone and mom just said, hey, that's what it takes so be it, you know, And that's what happened. I really didn't and then a couple other times said I'm not going to dance again, and it just happened. And later on they said, man, we like that dance. We want to see you do it more. And so anytime I would score after that, I would I would dance. I used to get phone calls on the road. Hopefully our team wins, but we want to
see you do the dance. I mean, I don't know how they got my number at the hotel to call and or say leave a message or it was fun and it was fun. I just you know, in the NFL was fun. I never ever try to humiliate another opponent. They can't say that I did you look at any tape? I always went to the end zone, corner of the end zone the dance.
When did you know that it was something very different and that people really loved it?
Wow, that's probably about the third time I did it, and they said, man, we want to see that dance today next game. I said, Wow, maybe something is good. And it's even though you know, you get pumped up more and you work harder because you're an entertainer. I mean, we are entertainment, but I just it was just fun. I mean I did it in the college all that time, and the same at that time when I was in college that people wanted to come to the game to see what he would do next. That's what it was.
But I you know, like I say, it was all part of getting our guys pumped up because they wanted to see it. They had to hand it. Allowed me to be successful, to get into the end zone, be it a pump return, a kickoff return pass, or end around or anything from scrimmish. They knew they had to handle it and that was the celebration, not only for me, but for the team.
More of the conversation with Billy White Shoes Johnson on the OTP continues. But first we have to remind you it's always game on with Duncan. So grab a coffee and kick off the action. Whether that's drinking a cup of coffee on your way to the game or grabbing one to go before watching the game at home, Duncan is always there to help you get your game on.
Just like the pros. We need to be at our best come game time, which is why Duncan is the most important part of your game day ritual because it's always the best call for football America runs on Duncan. But those Oilers teams you were on too. I mean bum Films was a character, how he dressed and everything. There were other characters on the team. Earl Campbell certainly
became a mythical figure. And so you were part of something Love You Blue, where the Houston Oilers all of the things that were with it challenging the Steelers for the first time. Yes, in that era, it was a thing, and you were a part of that thing that NFL films would seemingly show every single week.
I think it's because there was an oddity at that time when Bumble of this cowboy had and the players are no name defense at that time. When you look at I mean other than Curly, who else would you say? Maybe Al but thank because he'd been in all those years. We got Robert Brazil on the defense and doctor dou Yeah, and then you had uh Kenny Brow double oh, you know, double oh. I remember John was Sindy talking about that.
So we had the big names like that. But you know who would have said, yeah, that's good down there. But when we got on the national stage and played the Steelers tough and uh, of course they beat us twice to get to the super Bowl, but it was fun and see and you can tell a lot of draft choices, I should say draft choices, a lot of free agents made that team made it up at that
time to to make it what it was. So when you were a hard working guy and we're all after the same thing, you know, some of us didn't get a chance to uh rifully sow, but we got we got that second chance, and we wanted to make do uh make well with it. So that's why we were so close, I think. And we enjoyed each other. We enjoyed being around each other, especially when they started the city started getting behind this boy, and if all we
had and then we got it all. Oh wow, we will offer Runny for sure.
That Billy white shoes, Johnson, the white shoes and the end zone dance may have made you famous, but the fact of the matter is nineteen seventy five is one of the greatest years for a returner in NFL history. You're considered the greatest punt returner in NFL history. The seventy fifth Anniversary team named you as their punt returner. The one hundredth anniversary team in twenty eighteen named you
as the punt returner. So there was quite a bit of substance behind what you did, more so than just the flash. And as your career went on, especially when you went to Atlanta later, you got a chance more as a receiver. I mean, your career was incredibly accomplished outside of just the fun part of it, and that has to be special in your heart too.
It is. I've found a coach down there who knew I could play inside. He enhanced my career the second part of my career with the Falcons. But I'll say this, it's the guys along the way that made it possible for me. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention some of them. Guys made it happen for me. You know, you look at you got your names on defense and are starting defense. Would be out there on punt returns,
you know, then you got to kick off returns. Some of our offensive lineman be out there, starting offensive lineman to be out there. So it was gratifying to see these guys believed in me to, you know, to do the best I can do. And I believe in them. You look at for instance, Eddie Fish or Andy Dorris, Ronnie comb Is, cl Whittington, Al Johnson, these guys who made it happen for me offensively and defensively, and they
contributed as much to my success as I did. And that's I think that's that's why, because we all wanted, we were all on the same page. Let's get into the end zone, let's let's win. And then with mom his style of coaching only amplified it more so.
Well because him coming from the Bear Bryant Tree. Yes, he believed in special teams dramatically. He was from that school. That you can change field position sounds much like Mike Rabel right now, change field position, you start every possession with the first down, you can, you can pick up a score, all of those sorts of things factoring in.
And then when you have a guy and we sat with Chris Johnson in two thousand and nine, we saw it with Derrick Henry in twenty twenty, when the team starts to believe the person with the ball can hit a home run.
They try, yeah, that's true, and that's true. And me knowing that I'm going to have the wall, my hand. They're expecting what I'm doing. So I got to make sure I produce for them because they made some blocks. I mean, you see on several I guess films of us returning the bowl, Robert Brazil making two blocks, Whittington, Ronnie Coleman making two or three blocks. I'll never forget about three weeks back to back, Ronnie c I forget somebody else. They had knocked guys out of the game
on special things, and they did it fairly. They could have probably gotten away with it today by today's stands, I'm hitting people. But the angles that they were taking and the way that they were protecting me, golly day. So I had to I had to produce because those guys put on the line like that for me and kickoff returns, gee whiz is the same thing. I mean, we had starting guys out there on the special teams
and it's special. Uh. That's why I liked My mom never gave me no directions of Okay, we've got to return, right, but you go with what you see. Always, hey, handle the ball, you know, you're never supposed to handle the ball inside the tenure outline. I did that on several occasions, not longer. Is that because he said, just get it. If you feel you can get it, go with it.
What makes a great punt.
Returner, great judgment and right away with field presence of catching the ball, knowing where you are on the field, getting there quick, setting up like a baseball player, you know, as if he's getting ready to throw the ball. But once you get it, just such an instincts take over. You know we're supposed to go, which you're supposed but you don't know. You just got to go with the flow of you know that, which is intrinsic to happen.
And if you buy you do that. Shoot, that's what this And I would say I'll try some of them saying, see, you know, set up quick, take the first step to freeze them, then go with what you know.
It's Devin Hester, the greatest overall returner of all time.
Wow, it's one of the biggest I've seen. Physically.
He is a good sized guy.
Oh yeah, I said, no, wonder it's tough to him. And see he's what he knows. He got speed and he can do it. But you've got guys like Gale Sayers and you know, Rick up Church, and I'll tell you in our conference you had Greg prud there's a lot to be said about that. He uh, he's got some contention there.
But the guys you're talking about weren't specialists. No, Rick up Church played wide receiver. Greg Prue was a great running back.
And go back to Eton. Yes, I mean, so who's to say. I mean, that's been mentioned in that company. I feel good because all those guys were they made a difference in the game, but.
They're not the greatest punt returner. On the seventy fifth anniversary or the one hundredth anniversary.
People see it differently. You you ain't trapping me.
No, I'm not. I'm not trapping I'm bragging on you because I mean to think about the people who voted on that, and the amount of football that's been played, and the way the kicking game has evolved in different ways. I mean, wow, I mean to be called not just the first time around, you know, twenty five years in nineteen ninety three, but at twenty eighteen, to be called again, that's phenomenal. What is that what you're most proud of? Wow? I don't as a football player.
Gosh, probably, but there's a lot of other games that I think a lot of the things, you know, like when you talk about put returns, you really talk about especially in this era after me. You look at Devin Hester, you look at the Sanders, and a couple of guys came behind them. They're good. But I think most of you you'll see that the other like being on he played a position, sure did. Most of us played a position really and contributed, contributed in an actor in a
big way. Then you have something who just can't get on the field, though they can do is punt and kick off returna which is no slap in their face to me. I mean, if you can catch punts and I think about it and get it done, you where you supposed to be. And that's why I say, I hope they never take the returning game out of the league altogether. And that's the exciting part of the football
game to me, the change of position. And when you look at guys like that, I, like I said, I feel happy to be mentioned like that and to be selected. But there's a lot more out there.
But you think about the fabric of the NFL, and everybody knows who you are because you're nicknamed. The story of the end Zone dance, which is part of the celebration which makes the NFL the number one sport in America because it's not just a game, it's a show and people love following every part of the show. And the celebration is fine. When I started playing football, we did the Billy White Shoes Johnson dance, Date me, well
but dating me. But the whole thing was, they can't tell the story of this league without you, and I mean that's I mean, and you've done a lot more. I mean, you were in the league fifteen years, You had to go to Canada to work your way back from an injury and to show that you could still do it, and then you were with the Falcons for fifteen years doing their director of player development, And I mean, you've had a remarkable career in and outside of football.
But I mean, this has got to be for a guy who played at Widener, and it's got to be a little mind numbing, right it is.
I overwhelmed when when it is overwhelming to a point when Amy Uh, they gave me the news that they were going to put me to the Ring of Honor. Boy, I mean, I was speechless and overwhelmed because that takes a lot for a team to sit down there and decide who would go into the ring of honor. And I'm looking at the guys that I'm following, are Old Campbell, Robert Brazil, uh, Frank Wai checking all these guys. It's
that's tall. You know, you're in big company, big time company. Uh. And you know, I just felt blessed and fortunate that I came along when I came along and played for the right people. Uh. And I just I just have been so fortunate. It's been a great walk for me, a great run, and I have no regrets I do
it again. It's just like I say, you know, from the very beginning when I've called Alan to honor the strike at that time, and he asked me what around was I drafted and the fifteenth he said, no, come on in. Every since I called him that day, God at his hand on me saying, Okay, we're gonna because I don't want they want to be a strike break or a sky and Elma just said, hey, I guess he thought I wasn't going to make the team be in a fifteenth round drive show, so he said, yeah,
come on in. And then when he met me, I'll never never forget. Oh you had a little piss and who called me about coming to camp? He says, Man, if I know how big you are, i'd have told you, no, don't come at all. But it was so funny, and I'd said yeah. He said, well, I'm glad you did it. I'm glad you made things worked out for you. But it's yeah, I guess this, this moment of being inducted to the Ring of Honor is something I never thought about, I never found in any way.
And Amy Adamstruck made it happen because she's been determined to put the whole family together, and for those of us here, it's been a beautiful thing to get to experience all of it, to see all of this together in this way. And like I said, I've known who you were for fifty years, and so the excitement of getting a chance to meet you and getting a chance
to see this happen for you. And I think people of my age and even younger who know your story, they knew immediately when Amy said she wanted to do this, like absolutely, he's not already in and so it's you're the eighteenth member and it's wonderful.
Well, thank you, and I'm glad and first class all the way, first class all the way. So it's like I said, it's kind of overwhelming at that time. I mean, for me, it is.
Billy White Choos Johnson, thank you so much for joining me on the OTP. Reminder that seat Geek is the official ticketing partner of the Tennessee Titans. Whether you're buying or selling tickets to Titans games or to any live event in Nashville, seat Geek is the place to do it. Seat Geek the new official ticketing partner of the Tennessee Titans, so Titans fans can fan for the newest member of the Oilers Titans Ring of Honor, Billy White Shoes Johnson,
I'm Mike Keith. Thank you you for joining us for the O Seeds