People love to play the blame game in a relationship, and we're projecting all the time. We'll blame a partner for not making us feel enough when not enough is how we felt entering the relationship.
Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
just about thinking our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, feed their good wolf.
What if the way you see yourself, the stories you tell about who you are, aren't just shaping your relationships but sabotaging them. We walk through life convinced that our version of reality is the reality. But what if it's not. What if the reason you keep ending up in the same arguments the same heartbreaks, the same lonely places isn't because of what's happening to you, but because of the
narratives running inside you. Today's guest, Jillian Tareki, is a relationship coach who spent two decades helping people rewrite their emotional stories, and in this conversation, she says something that really stopped me. She says, we blame a partner for not making us feel enough when not enough is how we felt entering the relationship. Yes, sit with that one
for a second. In this episode, we're breaking down the mental loops that keep us stuck in unhealthy dynamics, whether that's in our romantic relationships, our friendships, or even with ourselves. We'll talk about self awareness, accountability, and why the thoughts we don't question have the most power over us. So, if you've ever wondered why you keep attracting the same kinds of relationships or why your inner critic always has
a microphone stick around, I'm Eric Zimmer. This is the one you feed and this one might just change how you see yourself and everyone around you. Hi, Jillian, Welcome to the show.
Hi Eric, so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. You have a new podcast called Jillian on Love, which is all about relationships, and I'm excited to dive into your work and relationships and communication and lots of different things. But before we do that, we'll start, like we always do, with the parable. There's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that
are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the others a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second and looks up at their grandparents says, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do.
Wow, there's so much I can say about this right now. I think that in many ways, our minds are like battlefields, and if we believe all our thoughts, which is what we usually do, we suffer immensely. But if we were to not believe all our thoughts, and you know, as corny as it sounds, but listen more to our hearts, our instincts, or intuition, however you want to call it,
then we will lead much more content lives. I also think that there's darkness that lives inside of all of us, and that darkness is reflected by the quality of our thoughts, of a lot of our thoughts, not all our thoughts. You know, the mind, like I said, can be a battlefield. It can be a very dark place. And if we were to which we do, this is what we do. Believe a thought which then turns into a narrative, which then becomes a chapter, which then becomes a story, which
then becomes an entire saga. We can believe that the stories and the sagas that tell us that, you know, we suck, or we're not good enough, or that person's not good enough, you know, playing the blame game. Or we can believe a story that is looking at the same situation or the same person or the same circumstance through a different lens and see a completely different story. And we decide which story or which narrative we're going to give more energy to. So the feeding is our
attention and our energy. That's how I see it. And as far as the work that I do, I'm always helping people do basically one of two things. Overcome the negative stories and thoughts that they have about themselves, and also overcoming in negative thoughts and stories they have about their partner if they're in a relationship, or about men, or about women, or about just relationships in general. So I'm always helping people mitigate the dark and the light
sides within themselves. And I think that that's really the perpetual battle. It's almost like the cana and Abel that lives within all of us.
Yep.
So that's how I see it.
Listener, as you're listening, what resonated with you in that? I think a lot of us have some ideas of things that we can do to feed our good wolf. And here's a good tip to make it more likely that you do it. It can be really helpful to reflect right before you do that thing on why you want to do it. Our brains are always making a calculation of what neuroscientists would call reward value. Basically, is
this thing worth doing? And so when you're getting ready to do this thing that you want to do to feed your good Wolf. Reflecting on why actually helps to make the reward value on that higher and makes it more likely that you're going to do that. For example, if what you're trying to do is exercise, right before you're getting ready to exercise, it can be useful to remind yourself of why. For example, I want to exercise because it makes my mental and emotional health better today.
If you'd like a step by step guide for how you can easily build new habits that feed your good wolf, go to Goodwolf dot me, slash change and join the free masterclass. I'm struck by you saying that, you know, we have a thought that becomes I don't remember your exact sequence, but a thought that becomes a narrative, which becomes a chapter, which becomes a book, which becomes you a whole series of books. Right, this idea of how in the Buddhist tradition they think the word for this
is papancha. Right, you start with a thought like popcorn. But the more we think these things, the more embedded
they become. And it is very true that a lot of our dynamic in relationship is driven by what the beliefs we have about ourselves and about other people to your point, whether it's about men in general or women in general or our specific partner, you know, it does get very embedded, and trying to determine the difference between Okay, I'm actually seeing the truth here and looking out for myself and taking care of myself, or I am imposing a story that's not true on a relationship is difficult
to sort out.
I think, oh, yeah, it's very difficult. Hence why people hire coaches exactly because we're objective and we can look at it. But that being said, I think that it's very illuminating when we recognize in ourselves, whether that's through the help of someone else or not, when our minds really get the best of us, and when we get
caught in this whole story. Man, how many times have you, like, I mean, I know I've been in this position many times where it's like, maybe I'll be like not in a great state, right, maybe i will be insecure about something that's going on in my life, or I'm tired, right, I'm just not like I'm not feeling great psychically, emotionally, physically, and then someone will look at me a certain way and I'll interpret it to be like oh, they don't
like me anymore, or they're thinking this, or they're thinking that. And then we go into like you said, like the popcorn going out, say this is within the context of a relationship, and then you don't communicate about it, and then you start to stew in your own soup of a story about it, and really that interpretation that you had was totally wrong. We're actually so off the mark.
And I think that when we have that recognition of, oh, my god, my mind, like I really create so many stories, that's a huge breakthrough moment because that's when we can actually for ourselves be able to mitigate when our minds are getting the best of us. It's like, Okay, hold on, I might be in a story right now, I might be totally misreading this right now, what is this really about?
So that's ultimately what we have to do, have to do, have to become very practiced and skilled at doing especially if you want to be in a romantic relationship, like you better really work on that skill.
Yep, yep. Two things come to mind. One is there was a communication program style book called Crucial Communications. It came out number of years ago. I loved it, but there was one thing about it that I thought was really great, and what it said basically was, when it comes to what your partner did, you want to start by what could actually be captured on a camera or on a tape recorder, What would anybody observe in it
actually see everything past that? Now you're in the land of interpretation, right, And I think that's a really great way of saying, Okay, well, the fact is he didn't take out the trash, right like I see it. I can see it on camera. The trash did not go out.
Okay.
Now from there, I'm going to go into interpretations like he's so forgetful and oh, no big deal, or she just doesn't respect me and care about me. I mean right. We branch off from there. And then the second thing that came to my mind is you were talking is I was thinking about how and I've been here that by the time a couple decides they need help, there has been such an entrenchment of these stories and patterns.
It's like, if we were to start working on that not telling ourselves stories way earlier in the game, it's really hard to fix. And I'm in a relationship now that is really wonderful and we've done that. From the beginning. We both were very clear, but I've been in other relationships where we didn't and by the time we were like, oh, this thing's kind of broken, right, it was so hard to not believe the story, and our dynamic reinforced it right, and our dynamic reinforced it over and over.
That's spot on. Sometimes the web is so incredibly complicated, and like you said, sometimes it is about not taking out the trash. Oftentimes the trash is a metaphor for years of hurt and maybe feeling slighted or betrayed, or unheard or unseen, and it can be Yeah, it can be incredibly tricky to unravel, and I think when it comes to that kind of situation, that's when you really
need third party help. You said that you and your partner do this sort of preemptively, which is great, and that's part of the reason why I do what I do, is that, whether you're single or not, you want to go into a relationship with as many tools in your toolbox as you possibly can have so that you can start to work preemptively. Because people they get annoyed, they don't say anything, or they say anything and maybe it's not met with the response that they're hoping from their partners.
So then they learn, well, next time, I'm just not going to say anything whatever. Then they build a whole lot of resentment. And then once you build resentment, there's a lot of resistance. Right. So it's like those couples where it's gotten to the point where it's broken. They're in such a state of resistance towards one another, like they're not in any way opening their hearts. They're not open. Everything is like a big stop sign. There's like a
stop sign in front of their heart. Their minds they are like, I do not enter right, And so they become so resistant to one another. And the only way that a couple would be able to find themselves to find each other again is if they really really wanted to,
and then if they got third party help. But you really have to want to, but it's hard because you know, usually these couples they come into the room and even though they're not saying this, what their subconscious is saying for sure is you know, fix them, Fix them so I can continue to be in a relationship with them.
Ye change them so I don't have to leave this Yep, and it's always the biggest and roughest pill to swallow when it's like, no, actually, the problem's also you totally.
And that's something you talk about in your first episode of your show. Is this idea that the common thread through all of our past relationships is us say a little more about that.
Yeah, So sometimes you'll be in a relationship with someone who like just quite frankly sucks. But it's not your pattern. Like, you don't have a pattern of just having tough relationships. You don't have a pattern of like dating people who are mean to you. You just have you know, you have a one off, you know, and it doesn't last that long. Okay, maybe in that situation there's always something
you can find responsibility for. But in that situation you get be like, Okay, I like chemistry, get the best of me. I got attracted whatever I was going through a hard time, I was lonely, I you know, lowered my standard and here we are. But the truth of the matter is, even if you've been in a relationship or a marriage for thirty years, anything that's not working in that relationship has one hundred percent to do with each person. Yep, it's not even fifty to fifty, it's
one hundred percent. And then if you have a pattern, and like let's say you're chronically single, or you keep dating the wrong people, you keep having these hurtful situations. You can continue to blame men, you can continue to blame women. You can continue to blame your mom or your dad, you can blame your childhood all you want. It's not that you would necessarily be wrong, but that's not going to get you what you want.
I love that change. That's really good. Yeah, I love that idea. It's not that it's wrong, it's just not a very useful strategy. It's not very skillful strategy, right, And recognizing the harms that have been done to us, the things that have impacted us, is useful to recognize what they are, to unlearn them. But to your point, you know it can't end there.
No, it can't end there. And you know it's interesting because I've I've worked with so many different people. You know, some people I've worked with, like, for example, they'll just keep dating the mentally ill drug addict who doesn't do any work on themselves, like isn't in therapy, isn't medicated for that isn't actually like on a good path, you know, and then people will think, oh, you know, poor you.
You're in these relationships with these horrible people, and it's like, no, when you look more carefully, like most quote unquote toxic unhealthy relationships, both people are behaving pretty badly within it. So you know, they'll keep dating that person and then they'll they'll make the discovery. Like in therapy. You know, your mom had postpartum when she had you, so she was depressed for the first you know, two years of your life, which is so important, and she was an alcoholic.
So you make these like connections and hopefully, if you're with a skilled enough therapist, you're actually working to make peace with your past, not just to understand your past, not to just have insight into your trauma, not just to be aware of your trauma, but to actually make peace with it. But then those people then come to me because they're like, Okay, I know all this, but I'm still doing this, and it's like, okay, well, then you need to take responsibility. You keep choosing them. It's
not mom's fault anymore. You know, you're not a traumatized little child anymore. You are attracted to them, and you have to recondition yourself to be attracted to other people. You have to make it absolutely non negotiable. They don't date anyone. Let's say I'm just using as an example,
who's a drug addict or something like that. And the people who really invested their time and their emotions and their money in themselves and in me and our work together, they take my advice and guess what, they're all happy now.
But most people, actually, no, that's not true. Not most, but a fair amount of people will they don't want to do what it takes to change, so they keep repeating the same cycle with the same kind of partner, feeling more and more like they'll either think, oh, there's just something wrong with them, or just to bring this full circle to the narratives that we have in our head, they'll just chalk it up to I'm damaged, I'm broken.
This is how I am ye. And it's like both are cop outs, and because taking responsibility for your love life is not about blaming yourself, because then you're not actually taking responsibility. If you're like I'm broken, that's literally you saying I'm not going to do anything about this, and So my job and what my passion is is to help people to feel empowered, to understand that they
can make a change. If it means you have to like date different types of people, or a lot of people have to learn how to love themselves so that they can actually be with someone who wants to love them too, because if you don't love yourself, you're just going to push that person away.
And I think what you're saying there is really important is we can go to therapy and get a lot of insight. And I really like what you say. It's not just understanding why, it's making peace with the past, healing what we can can from the past. My experience is even after that work is done, there is still the moment of the thing happening. So the example I often use is, I know why if I'm around an older man, an authority figure, I want to hide under the table, Right. I know why because I had a
very angry father. Right, he just was not in the best period of his life and got it. I made peace with it, healed it. I still find myself in that situation and the conditioning is still there. I find myself the fear starting to come up now I've gotten a little bit better where I can now in the moment, know, okay, settle down, You're okay. But it's those moments that we have to sort of dig into, and I think that's
what coaches can do well. You know, if it's done well, what do you do in that moment, because that's when it happens. You know, It's like if you've got to tie yourself to the mast, you know, so you're not dragged off by the drug addict sirens, right, You've got to find a way to do that.
Yeah, So like, for example, it would just be like in that moment, so the self awareness is like, okay, this is happening, and then you want to go directly to your body. Okay, this is what's happening in my body right now, Like my stomach feels tight, I'm starting to perspire a little bit, I'm feeling stressed. And then you can actually just start to use your breath to relax your body and be like, Okay, there is a conditioned neural pathway response right now that my nervous system
is reacting to, but it's not real ye. So that would be like sort of like a self soothing moment when it comes to the attraction and relationship, this is where it's a little bit different because it requires, well requires two things. Like anything else, human beings are much more motivated to make change once they've been in enough pain. We're very motivated by pain. So that's like the whole
concept behind a rock bottom. It's like when the pain of being this kind of relationship or this kind of partner, when that pain becomes so overbearing that you would rather be like alone for the rest of your life than with that person or in that kind of relationship, that's
when you're really right to make some changes. But it's practice and it's also the wisdom, and it takes a certain level of maturity and growing up inside and wanting better things for your life to say, yeah, I'm actually really attracted to someone who says who does what they say they're going to do, versus the person who's always
letting me down. Like, for example, there could be lots of people that I'm you know, lots of men for example, that I'm attracted to, but I register it as trouble, so I don't even go there because I don't want the trouble. But also, when you change yourself inside, when you really recondition yourself and you let yourself be around certain people who treat you well or who are more aligned with you than over time, you start to say, Okay, I'm more attracted to this now. And so there is
a part of growing up that tends to happen. And you know, people come to me because they're ready, and if they're not ready, then not much change happens. You know. It's it's just like the bottom line, and some people change really quickly, and some people are really slow to change, and sometimes they just have to go through it. They just have to get burned really bad until they say, okay, no, not another moment, I'm not doing this anymore.
Yeah.
An interesting phenomenon I've noticed is you have a bad relationship that ends and you're in a lot of pain, and you're like, Okay, I'm going to do a lot of inner work on myself. I'm going to change this so it never happens again. And what's happened with me is I do that, and I do make progress, but there's only so much of it I can do out of relationship. I think I'm not going to fall for that one again, or I'm not going to do that again,
or I'm not going to react like that again. And it's easy to say that when I'm sitting in my therapist's office or and I'm sitting at home writing in my journal. Then throw me into a relationship and I'm like, Okay, now this is a little different because I think your pain point is a really good one. We're in pain,
so we start doing this work. Then we meet somebody and we're no longer in pain, we feel great, and then slowly the normal patterns subtly reassert themselves and you find yourself kind of back in the same place again. And so yeah, I was just grateful that this time around for me with my partner, we both kind of from the very beginning, we're like, okay, we both have really screwed this up in the past a bunch of times.
Let's really talk about each other's patterns and understand what they are, and you know, really try and work with them from the beginning, and it has made a tremendous difference.
Yeah, that's beautiful. It's an interesting paradox. It's like sometimes some people really need to take a time out and to work on themselves, because that's like that moment where you're like, oh boy, maybe it is me. Ye, that's the moment. It's like maybe it is me, and look, everyone's different. It depends on the severity of the pattern, depends on the severity of the pain, Like you might have to get yourself to a therapist, or you might
just have to you know. Maybe it's just like watching a bunch of people on Instagram or reading a bunch of books, or listening to people's podcast, whatever it is. But there is no greater education than the education of a relationship. And single is really easy. I mean, there's so many people who want obviously they want love, they want to be in a relationship, but that's when the
work begins. It's easy to be on top of your game when you're single, but when you're in a relationship, it's a giant mirror and it's going to show you where you're like, ah, there's that thing again. But the difference is that you always have a choice to react or respond differently. And then when you become more accountable, you will mess up like you're inner teenager, your inner three year old will come out, or you'll be totally
selfish or totally insecure or whatever. It is, you'll cling, or you'll be cold, whatever it is, but you own it much more quickly, and you say, oh my god, I am so sorry. That is me, that is not you. I'm not going to do that again. And like, really owning it is so huge. Some people will have to take a time out from being in a relationship because they have lost themselves so much that they have to
rediscover the self. But then this is the paradox. It's like you want to find yourself and connect to yourself so that you can learn how to lose yourself again, but more appropriately, like in a relationship, not lose yourself in the codependent way, but make it so that it's not just all about you and developing the self, but now it's about you and figuring out how to be in relationship.
So let's talk about relationships. There are some different things that you talk about, and one is you talk about medicine for relationships. You've got a few different points that you think are really important in a relationship.
Well, accountability is medicine for a relationship, and that's really just owning your part. I mean, people love to play the blame game in a relationship, and we're projecting all the time, will blame a partner for not making us feel enough, when not enough is how we felt entering the relationship. We'll blame them for not paying attention to us, when really we're not paying attention to ourselves. So accountability, being responsible for our lives, being responsible for how we act,
that's medicine. I mean, it really really is. You're in a long term relationship and it's lasting years, Like we unconsciously break each other's hearts all the time, like we're gonna do that, So that's really really important that we're accountable. I'm not sure if I wrote this in the blueprint, but forgiveness is also medicine for a relationship. You know. Obviously there's some things that are unforgivable and that's for certain people to have to figure out. But what's their
like personal stand under it. But like I said, we're going to mess up with each other a lot, so we have to be able to forgive because if there's nothing worse than being with someone who's constantly holding a grudge for everything, you know, So forgiveness is medicine. The
truth is medicine. And this is what I mean, And this goes back to what we were talking about in the beginning of this conversation, which is that things get so messy to the point of broken because of the elephants that have been in the room for so long that no one is talking about, no one's having the
difficult conversations. People are internalizing stuff, they're creating stories. Then all of a sudden, you're in a situation where throwing out the trash is a metaphor for ten years of struggle and pain as opposed to just throwing out the trash. And so that's so important. But also because I work with a lot of people who struggle with their self worth in relationships, so they struggle to actually say the
truth because they're so scared to rock the boat. And even if you don't necessarily struggle with your self worth, like people are really afraid that if they tell the truth that their relationship will dissolve, or if they tell the truth to the person that they've been on two dates with, that person will no longer want to be with them. And yet it's the truth that's medicine for a relationship, because if you're dating someone and you're honest with them about something in your life and they then
decide they don't want to be with you. That's actually medicine because you don't want to end up with that person. It's going to be a disaster. So you never want to have to lie to keep your relationship, and you have to have the tough conversations. You can't avoid the elephant in the room. You got to like, look at it, point out it, point it out, name it, and make it go away.
M m m m m m m mm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmm.
What you just said struck me is you know how much in my life I tried to be somebody else in order to get the partner that I thought that I wanted. You know, so I'd meet somebody I'm attracted to and I would think, in my mind, but what is it that they're going to like? And so I'm going to be that. I'm going to do more of that. And that is a losing bargain because either a it doesn't work because you're not authentic, or even worse, it does work, and now you're in a relationship where you're
expected to be a way that you're not. And that's a tough road to go. And you know, as I got a little bit older, just starting to realize, like, wait, you know what I want is somebody who likes me, loves me. But the only way they're going to do that is if they see me, the actual me, right, And so I love that line. Don't ever lie to save your relationship, right, because it's causing trouble for yourself
and your partner. You say that it's possible to be kind and truthful, be both, Sometimes that seems like it's hard to do both. Are there any circumstances in which you are untruthful?
Yes? Okay, so, and this is you know, obviously this could ruffle some people's feathers, but sometimes a white lie is actually compassionate. This would be an example, Honey, do I look fat today? No, babe, you look great? But maybe that person's thinking, yeah, maybe you did gain a few pounds, but like, do they really have to tell?
Right?
Let's pause there, though, because I think there's something important in this, right, which is I agree, and yet let's change genders so we ruffle less feathers. A man says, honey, do I look fat to you today? Right? And she says, no, you look great, but she's thinking, yeah, you know, really you've kind of let yourself go the last five years, and I'm just not as attracted to you as I used to be, you know. Like, so there's a little
white lie. That's also there's a bigger thing growing underneath that. Potentially, now maybe there's not, but let's let's talk about where there is. What do you do in a situation like that?
Okay? So I believe that people are saying, I want this amazing relationship. I want a conscious relationship. We don't live in a time anymore where it's like I stay home, I cook an eye clean, and they go out and you know, make money and come home, like those sort of roles that's considered now moral fashion in these days. So people are looking for like these incredible connections and relationships. And I always say, okay, you want that hold each
other accountable. And what I mean by that is if you find that your partner is straying from their path, and maybe that's the path of physical health, mental health. I think that what you would say is you wouldn't say the white lie would be you withholding I'm not that attracted to you anymore, But the truth would be hey, like I know that, or honey, or whatever that you know, whatever you call your significant other, maybe it's by their name.
But I know you're not feeling that great about yourself. But I think it's because used to really like eat well. I think it's time we should get a little healthier. I'll do it with you. But you know you're kind of like, come on, let's get it together, let's get healthy again. It's like it's important, and you could even depending on the conversations that you've had in the beginning of the relationship. It's like, no, like, physical fitness is
really important to me. You know this, You agree with me. Let's get back on track. So that's how you would bring it up. Yeah, instead of I'm gonna be really really, really honest with you, like your belly is grossing me out, or like I'm just not attracted you because you're overweight, Like, yeah, that would be really honest. Is it necessary? I don't think so.
What about situations where a partner has a behavior that you don't like. Let's just say your partner is a cigarette smoker and you have hit a point in your life where you're really focused on health and you recognize, like, geez, that's really destructive and I mean, I'm really scared for you, and you've had conversations with that person in a respectful and kind and decent way, and that person just doesn't really want to change. How do you make peace with
that sort of thing? I mean, I think that's a particularly tricky one. If you're a mother and you've got two kids and your husband is a smoker, and you're like, he's increasing the chances that he's going to have lung cancer and not be here to marry him exactly, So I'm not ready to blow the marriage up over this thing, right, How do I make peace with something like that?
I think that we're going to have to make peace with a lot of things about the person we're in a relationship over the years, because we cannot change someone. And I think, no, I know that the biggest problems come from two things that are related to each other. One, people trying to change each other. And two and this is all unconscious, mostly unconscious people over relying on their
partner to make them happy. So it's like people are always like coming to the therapy office, the coach's office, whatever, and they say, change them, change them so I can be happier, Change them, so that I can be more content, change them so I can feel more secure. There's always going to be things that we're going to have to live with in someone else. And if it's something that you decide you cannot live with, then it can turn
into an ultimatum. And that's fine. But then know that you're going to be blowing Is it worth it to you? Are you going to be blowing the relationship up? I really do think that you can enter a relationship with the expectation that there is going to be growth and that you want your partner to be able to go and you want to grow together and all of that. But some people grow at different speeds. It's very tricky territory when you get into a relationship with someone thinking
but they'll change, they'll grow. No, don't do that. Don't fall in love with potential. You have to really fall in love with the person as if they're never going to change. But if the relationship is long enough, there's going to be certain you change, and then all of a sudden you're like, yeah, I was okay with the cigarette smoking, now I'm not. But you can't change him
or her. You cannot change them. You can say, like I really don't like this, but at some point you're gonna have to say I am going to accept this. I don't like it, but I'm gonna accept it. Or if it's another behavior like that's really like dysfunctional for the relationship, you say this has to change. Tell me what you need from me to help you change? How
can I help you help yourself? And I think that that's a question that a lot of people don't ask the person they're in a relationship with, like you want them to change or behavior, Well, guess what. Oftentimes that behavior is largely dependent on something that you're doing that they're reacting to. So if you want them to change your behavior, this is this is other than cigarette smoking. This would be something, you know, something that they do.
Maybe they shut down, or maybe they get clingy, or maybe they yet whatever it is, it's like you're part of a dynamic. So if they're doing something, rest assured they're doing it in response to something that you're doing. So ask them, how can I change to help you change?
Yep, I think you're right. I think in any relationship you are trying to figure out what things can I live with and what things can't I. You know, so you know, a question a lot of people have is a lot of people stay stay in this place for a long time, and I think it's a really painful place to be, which is should I stay or should I go? I feel like that that state on its own is a purgatory to be there, you know, And so it seems like a better approach would be to
get clear on okay, this is okay, this isn't. I at least am, you know, making the best decision I can make now, And for now it's stay or But I know you have some questions to ask, you know, if you're in that phase.
Well, first, before I get into the questions, it's like some things are just wrong. Like obviously, if you're any in any kind of abusive situation, you need to get out. I also think that sometimes it's very clear and to end something, it's like you're just with someone you guys are not right for each other. So sometimes it's very
very obvious. But if you're in a longer term relationship, or you're in a relationship that's been very important to you, you've invested a lot of your time, a lot of your energy, maybe you have kids together, like you love this person, it's an important relationship to you, but it's been painful. The question to ask yourself is it's alarming to me the amount of people that I have met with when they're talking about the person that they're in a relationship with, and I ask them, do you know
what it is that they need? Like what they're really like their core needs are, Like what is it that they need that maybe you're not giving them, or what is it that they need? In general? They have no idea how to answer that question. And I think you if you're like in a very very bonded relationship where in other words, breaking up will have a lot of consequences, Like it's a big decision, it's a big decision emotionally
and all that. Like, you better not be leaving that until you can answer that question and until you actually try to meet their needs. Because when a relationship goes south, there are very few things other than like health, money, and relationship. When those things go south, they create a tremendous amount of stress. Like work could be amazing, your health could be amazing. Your relationship not going well, you are going to be waking up in a cold sweat.
They're going to be unhappy. It's like really really almost impossible to be unhappy when your relationship is in dire straits. So when that happens, we go into sort of like a fight or flight and so we become obsessed with ourselves and what I mean by that, we get obsessed with our own needs. We're in survival mode. We're constantly judging and evaluating our partner based on how well or or how not well they're meeting our needs, and we're
never really evaluating how we're meeting their needs. And this goes back to the accountability part. If you can't see your part in what has broken down, then that's a problem. And also like you have to really try to repair it. But a lot of people try to repair their relationship but they don't know how to well. The first step is owning and acknowledging your role in the dysfunction and then learning how to meet their needs, like figure out what their needs are, what do they need to feel love?
Like what are they missing from you? And give that and if you don't get anything in return, then you have like some answers for you. First, like step out of that survival mode ego state and just start to give So that's really important. This is under a large umbrella of accountability, which is like the main you know why that the first episode of the podcast was based on that. You know, ask yourself, like, what are these psychological and emotional barriers that I have that's preventing me
from being close with this person? Like what resistance have I had? How have I had the like do not enter sign at my heart all this time? You know? What are my barriers? What's my fear of intimacy? You know? How have I actually like, have I actually communicated? Have I told the truth? Or have I been just carrying around this resentment or this lie or this series of lies. So those are some really important key questions to ask yourself.
And a really important one is if everything were to change, Like if you were to actually get the needs met that you weren't getting met in the last year or however long you've been having trouble, if it were all the change, if they were to say okay, I'm going to change and they change, would you still want them?
It's such a good question. It's such a good question because the cruelest thing I think is to be like, well I need you to do X Y, and Z, and they then start really working to do X, Y and Z, and you're like, not good enough. Like that feels really like it feels tough. I mean these situations are like you said, I think health, money, and relationships, Like if one of them is way off, it is really difficult. There is a dark cloud over a portion
of your life, for sure. Absolutely under this medicine idea. There's a couple other ones and a really important one. I just want to read something you wrote. You said, there's one pattern that I see in one hundred percent of all the couples I've worked with a lack of genuine appreciation of one another. Talk more about appreciation.
So we meet someone and we start seeing them, and we start to fall in love and we're in lust. And really when we think of them as like we
see them as like this miracle. It's like, you know, angel that's come into our lives and kind of see them as a miracle, and we appreciate them so much, and then the law of familiarity sets in and all of a sudden, that person who you once thought was a gift you're taking for granted and we stop really appreciating the person for what it is that they do for us, what it is that they do for others. Whereas like taking each other for granted would be the poison,
learning to appreciate each other is the medicine. But it's not just saying I appreciate you and thank you. It's like really feeling it in your heart, you know, like really feeling it and acknowledging it. And we lose that. And if we lose that, or we get out, I should say, we get out of the habit of appreciation and into the habit of taking each other for granted. If that gets deep enough, if appreciation is really lacking and lacking for a long time, then couples then start
to have like contempt for one another. And you know, John Gotman talks about that a lot. But once there's contentment, monce, there's contempt. It's over. When you're like, I can't appreciate a single thing this person does. In fact, everything they do makes my stomach flip in a bad way. It's over.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know if it was John Gotman who came up with this statistic. I've heard and again, whether it's the statistics exactly accurate or not, it's not important. It points directionally to a truth, which is for a relationship to flourish, it takes five positive things that you say to someone for every negative thing that you say to them. Right, So, again, maybe it's not five to one, maybe it's three to one, but it points to you need more positive You need to be saying more positive
things to your partner than negative. Yes, I've been in relationships where that is an exact inverse. For every one positive thing, there are at least five negative things. And yeah, that's not a good place to be.
No, But then you have to ask yourself, well, why does that happen? Well, it happens because our minds get crazy and we start to create stories, and then we start to project all our stuff where we unconsciously depend on our partner to rescue us, to make us happy, and then when they don't, we resent them, when we hate them. We are unconsciously trying to change each other all the time, and then we also become very complacent.
We take the relationship for granted, so instead of trying to proactively create positive memories together, we are instead just sitting on the couch and just letting life happen to us, instead of actually trying to create a life between us, and then all that combined. Next thing, you know, you're having ten negative moments compared to the one positive moment. That's why it happens.
You talk about this idea, you say, we all have an emotional home. It's an emotional destination we go to habitually when we've been triggered by a circumstance. Even though we all experience all kinds of emotion, there is always a place where we go on the regular under stress. Talk to me about that idea and why that's important in working more skillfully in relationship.
Yeah. So, one of the things that I really loved about my training under Tony Robbins and my mentor one of my mentors, Cloy Madonna's, is that the role of emotions, it's a huge part in our story, it's a huge part in our relationships. And so in a relationship where we have to be responsible for our behavior regardless of what our childhoods were like, but we also have to
be responsible for our emotional patterns. And the thing is is that a lot of us live in chronic states of stress, and under stress, people usually go into a pattern that's been with them for a really long time. Some people get angry. Some people vacillate between depression and anxiety,
like they go back and forth. So, for example, if you're stressed out, and let's say your pattern when you're stressed is to numb yourself with drugs or alcohol or some people like we're always I mean, you know, we're numbing ourselves all the time, you know, or to numb ourselves like through scrolling through social media or television or anything like that. Let's just say you're like in a
rut and you're doing that all the time. Well, the only way to get out of that rut is to understand the emotions that are actually leading you to that. So that would be sort of like the emotional home. It's like you look at something like a pattern that you do, and you're like, oh, I realize, like whenever I'm triggered or upset or whenever I feel out of control in life, I get really anxious. You know, some
people will always get angry no matter what. So it's so important that we understand our psychology and that we understand the psychology of the person that we're in a relationship with. We can't make our lives better if we don't understand the emotional patterns that we get in, you know,
like that's the root. And I think it's important when you're in a relationship to understand to be attuned not just to your partner, but also to yourself and understand your psychology and understand like, oh, like my spouse, my partner, my lover, my boyfriend, my girlfriend, however you want to call it, they're doing that that has nothing to do with me. They're just like doing that thing that they always do. It's not that it's an excuse, but it's
really like understanding them. The only way to really heal our lives is to understand and the emotional patterns that we get ourselves into. And every emotional pattern that we get into has a story behind it. It's like if you're experiencing a lot of sadness or a lot of anger, it's like there's a whole pattern to that. You're telling yourself you're not good enough. You're telling yourself, I'm always
going to be that way. Like the example that I gave of you know, someone saying well, I'm just broken, It's like, okay, well sounds to me like you know, someone might say, oh, they're depressed, so that's why they say they're broken. It's like, no, that's not how I see it. It's they keep saying to themselves that they're broken, which leads them into a depression, and then the depression actually reinforces the I'm broken, and then the more they
say I'm broken, the more depressed they are. And that is a place where they feel really, really comfortable because then as long as they're like that, they don't have to stop dating the drug addict. So it's really important to understand that home that you go to that is very familiar to you. Maybe you've learned it from mom, maybe learned it from dad, maybe it's just been practiced for you know, thirty forty years. To understand that and within the context of a relationship is this is why
single is a lot of times easier. Is that we can indulge that as much as we want if we're single and we're not in a good state. We could binge watch Netflix all week and long if we wanted to. But guess where that's not going to fly in a relationship.
Yep. We also don't get triggered alone in the same way. You know, it's the triggering that I think is one of the big things. So like my emotional home or my strategy is, you know, you list these different strategies that people behavioral patterns and relationships, you know, like control or pleasing or fighting. I was like, well, I start with pleasing. If that doesn't work, I move into fleeing, and if that doesn't work, then I freeze. You know, it's like I've got a hierarchy.
We have a hierarchy.
Hierarchy of what I go through. I didn't work. Okay, let's try try strategy too, But that desire to please doesn't get triggered without someone else around. You know that freezing doesn't happen generally in the absence of someone. In my last marriage, you know, I think you see this a lot in troubled relationships, we had the exact opposite patterns, right.
Her pattern of triggered was anger, which is the thing that I'm most afraid of, so that most triggers my runaway, which then most triggers her being angry because she feels abandoned. Despite knowing it and working on it, we were unable to fix it, and you know, we ended it, which I don't think is actually a bad thing. I think it was a wise thing, and we're both happy and get along well with each other. And knowing that your emotional home and knowing your reaction pattern, Yeah, you're being
really helpful, you know. And they're so strong, Like you know, for me, there is a shutdown that happens somebody's angry around me. It is completely and totally unconscious. It's like I can watch it happen. Is if the power is just draining out of the system, right, Like if I am just like literally shutting down, like a power draining out of it, and I can sort of watch it happen, and you know, I've gotten better at it, but it is still it's so hard when those things are that
deeply ingrained. It really is a pattern of awareness and continuing to take incremental improvement, at least for me, incremental improvement in dealing with it and you know, self soothing like you talked about earlier, Like Okay, what can I do so that we don't get there?
So there's a couple of different directions to go with this, because it really is very interesting. Well, Number one, there's a saying that goes we marry our unfinished business from childhood. So that's one thing I'll circle back to that. Number two. Yeah, it takes an incredible amount of self awareness to be in a relationship. For sure. The heavier our baggage, the bigger our baggage, the more self aware you're just going
to have to practice, have to have. And then number three is and this ties into like when to leave a relationship. Certainly, it's like you can find yourself married and you know, it's like, oh, of course we found each other. I had the scary father who was angry, and then here I am married to someone who sees red every time she's triggered. And then we're just going
to constantly trigger each other. And like, yes, is it possible that like two people like that could work and like figure it out and grow together, and yeah, it could be really profound. Yeah, but there's also an argument for saying, well, you know what, like yes, I understand like why this is happening. This is like, you know, I'm going into my pattern that like I learned as a child, and like then when I do that, she's
being triggered for abandon and all that. But there's something to be said for like, you know what, like we're too triggering to each other, and that's okay, but it's like maybe we're not a match, Like maybe it's like we're more of a trauma bond or something like that, or like you know, like maybe it's like and it's a tough call. It's like, no, you have to love each other enough to be like, no, we're going to
overcome this is like our childhood craft. Or you're just like you know what, like it could be a lot easier with someone else. Yeah, doesn't mean I don't take responsibility for it. And the next thing that I wanted to say is that all these patterns, all these emotional homes, everything that I write about boils down to one thing, Like none of us are doing any of these things that we don't want to be doing in a relationship.
It's all fear. Yeah, every single one of us is afraid that the person that we care about is not gonna stay or is gonna, you know, like abandon us, or is going to reject us. I mean, like this is the fear that drives all behavior in a relationship that we're not proud of.
Yeah, so let's spend a couple minutes here and talk a little bit about communication. You actually say, communication is the glue that keeps couples together, and it's deficit is always the force that tears them upon art. You know, you talk about some winning strategies, some losing strategies, some skills. We're not going to get through all of it, but highlight a couple important things regarding communication, either to do or not to do. Yeah, that's so important for this
critical thing. We could have a whole conversation on your strategies here, but I'm going to ask you to do it in five minutes.
So okay. So first of all, we're communicating all the time, whether we're doing it verbally or nonverbally, Like our body is communicating all the time. So it's really important that when you are having like any sort of conversation, you're turning towards each other. But also that like you're present with each other, because we can tell when we're talking to someone and even if they're looking at us, we
can tell that they're not with us. Their mind is somewhere else, or they're strategizing how to reply, you know, like what's going to be the thing. So presence is really important. And also what's really important is that you stop debating. Yeah, no more debating, because in a debate there's a winner and there's a loser. And if you're communicating with your partner with the intent to win the argument, then guess what, You're going to walk away feeling validated
for about a minute. They're going to feel totally invalidated, and guess what, your problem doesn't go away, you both lose.
Actually, so listener and thinking about all of that and the other great wisdom from today's episode. If you are going to isolate just one top insight or thing to do that you're taking away, what would it be. Remember that, little by little, a little becomes a lot, and a habit for me that has accrude and benefit over time is meditation. However, one of the things that gets in our way of building a steady meditation practice is that
very striving. Right. Of course, we're doing it because we want certain benefits, but in the moment of actually meditating, we need to let striving go and focus on just being there and experiencing it. No matter what's happening. It becomes not enjoyable because I'm trying to make something happen some special moment. We want to let go of that. So if you want to stop dreading meditation and actually find it enjoyable, check out my free meditation guide at
Goodwolf dot me slash calm. That presence thing is funny. It makes me think of my current partner, Jinny, and I like things, like I said, are so are so good. But I have a habit of She'll be talking and I really am listening, but I'm also on my way somewhere else, and it drives her nuts, you know, because I'll be like listening to her, and then I'll be thinking and I need to go get my sweatshirt and I need and so I'm literally walking away.
Which and for that's really really difficult, not.
The signal that I want to be sending. What's funny is I found if I just say, hey, I also while I listen to you need to go do these couple of things, it's fine, right, Like it's understood then, like you know, it's just so you're right. I mean, it's like I really am listening, but my body is very clearly saying no, I'm not.
And the thing is it's like, yeah, you're listening, but if you're doing other things, you're not really listening, it's the same thing as like the phone. It's like you could be like out for dinner. It's like, oh, yeah, I'm not looking at my phone, but it's on the table. It's like that immediately changes everything. Having the phone on the table is not the same thing as putting your phone away. Yeah, it's just not. Or you're like holding your phone in your hand even though you're not looking
at it. It's like it immediately like what you feel, even if it's not conscious in that moment, is you feel like I am not as important as that device that's in that person's hand. Listening is so important. I think that people speak way more than they should, and they should be really listening more, and there should be more of I hear you, I understand you, tell me
more and less trying to fix. This is actually something that happens a lot between male and female relationships, is that men typically like to fix and women they just typically want to They're like, no, you know, I just want to be heard. Yep, I want to be heard. So that's something that comes up a lot when it comes to like repairing a fight. You said something interesting in the beginning of a conversation on that book like if there was a camera rolling, what would that pick up?
And so when you want to repair being able to say this is what I saw and really just like be the camera like on like showing the recording, and then you can say this was my interpretation. So there you're like you're like you're actually admitting that, like, Okay, this is what my mind, yes, actually constructed over this. And then you say how you feel yes, And a lot of people use the word feel in front of
every sentence, thinking I'm talking about my feelings. So it's like, no, saying I feel like you don't care is not a feeling. A feeling? Is I feel really insecure and scared because my perception right now is that you don't care.
Yeap. Yeah, You've got lots of great words in your different courses and workbooks that are available on your website. I'll just end this with one that I think is so important in every type of relationship, which is positive intent. Share a little bit about that.
So if you believe that the person that you're in a relationship with, whether it's a friendship, whether it's a significant other, whether it's family, if you actually truly believe that that person's intention is to hurt you and to harm you, then that's not someone you should be in relationship with anymore. So if you can say, Okay, I'm hurt, I don't like the behavior. I don't even particularly like
you right this moment. But if you can say to yourself, but I know that that's not what they meant to do. And so sometimes we'll get stuck in our heads, we'll create a story and we'll get so angry with someone and that's when we have to stop and ask ourselves, like, do you think that that was their intention was to do this to you? Right now? That doesn't mean that you don't talk to them about it, doesn't mean that you don't call them out on it. It doesn't mean that
you tolerate behavior. But it's so important to if you're going to be constantly seeing a monster in your partner, what you're going to be constantly getting as a monster.
I certainly think it's the place to start, right. I love the phrase assume positive intent. You know, assume that. Now again, you may need to update your assumption. Yes, right, that may not be what it is and then you need to update it. But it's a good place to start because if you always assume negative intent, and we all know people who do. They interpret every action through
negative intention, and it's a bitter place to live from defensiveness. Yeah, you know, and it's back to that camera idea, right Like. I find that the place that I've gone wrong in relationships, and I see people do so often, is we think we know why somebody did something. And you know, if you know somebody long enough and you've talked to them enough, maybe you know. But the why is very much an interpretation, you know, absolutely, I find that just really gets us
into trouble. It's a whole lot better to as you were just saying, here's the behavior I saw, Here's how it made me feel. You know, the behavior was a factual thing. My feelings are real, they're mine. Now what you meant for what you were trying to do, I actually need to get that info from you. Yes, well said well, Gillian, thank you so much for coming on
the show. It's such a pleasure. Your podcast again, which is just released and has so much great information, is called Gillian on Love and listeners can find it anywhere they get their podcasts. You and I are going to continue in the post show conversation and I want to talk a little bit about healing heartbreak because you do a lot of work in that area too, and there's assuredly some heartbroken people listening right now, so we'll do
that listeners. If you'd like access to that post show conversation and all kinds of other good things you get from being part of our community, check it out at oneufeed dot net slash join again. Thank you so much, Jillian.
If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You Feed Podcast. When you join our membership community. With this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits. It's our way of saying thank you for your support now. We are so grateful for that members of our community. We wouldn't be able to do what we do without their support, and we don't take a single dollar for granted.
To learn more, make a donation at any level and become a member of the one You Feed community, go to oneufeed dot net slash Join. The One You Feed podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show.