The Challenges of Searching for Happiness with Josh Peck

thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks

for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Josh Peck, an actor, comedian, podcast host, and author who began his career as an actor in the late nineties, originally rising to prominence for his role in the sitcom Drake and Josh and has had a successful acting career ever since. He is in fact in a movie I saw not long ago called The Wackness and was very well cast in that movie, acting with Ben Kingsley. He's also the voice of Eddie in the Ice Age franchise and tons

of other movies. His book is called Happy People Are Annoying. Hi, Josh, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm really happy to have you on. We're going to be discussing your book, which has a title that I love, which is happy People Are Annoying. But before we get into that, we'll start like we always do, with the Parable. And in the Parable, there's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two

wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second, looks up at their grandparents as well. Which one wins, and the grandparents says, the one you feed, So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work

that you do. Well. I would first say it's good that they want with like a wolf and not like a hamster. Right, I just don't I don't know if it would have the same impact. You know, I have heard that parable before and it's very sort of didactic, and I feel like I'm just sort of repurposing what was already said best in that parable. Right, it's this idea of nurturing the things that allow you to be great and be the person that you want to be

in what we sort of devote our time too. And I remember before I got in recovery, I didn't think I was self centered, because you know, I thought that was reserved for people who thought highly of themselves, you know, like people with big egos and people who were the quarterbacks and naturally popular. And then of course I was quickly corrected by you know, people smarter than me where when they said, well, if you spend all day thinking about how good or how bad you are, you're self centered.

So sorry, you qualify. So again, it's like where you direct your time is the thing that's going to grow and it can either be something good for us or less good. Yeah, I love that what you just said about self centeredness. I had the exact same thing sort of happened to me. And I remember this clearly in Early Recovery the first time, and I read that part in the Big book that said selfishness, self centeredness, that

was the of our problem. And when I really got that, it was like this big light went on for me because, similar to you, I didn't think I was self centered because I didn't think so highly of myself. But I thought of myself all the time. I was the only thing I largely thought about how am I feeling? And that was such a big revelation for me. It sounds

like it was for you also. Yeah, it's interesting, right, because what we learned is is that if the problem doesn't lie with us, then there can be no solution because we only can control ourselves. So it's almost as though we were onto something thinking about us, because it really does only have to do with us at the end of the day, as far as what we can control and how we can adjust our perception and our actions and our reactions or lack thereof. But inevitably, you know,

I have found. My biggest reprieves, My biggest moments of like oh, taking a deep breath and not feeling completely weighed down by the world is when I'm indeed thinking of other people unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, totally. It's funny you just said, They're like, we sort of had it right in thinking about ourselves because we were looking for a

solution sort of inside ourselves. It makes me think of another area I think about with my time and addiction, something I sort of had right and also had completely wrong at the same time, which was this idea that we should live for the moment, right like that now is what matters, you know, And there's a deep spiritual and philosophical truth in that. And I lived that way to a certain extent in my drug using days. But I had it sort of all completely wrong, even though

the kernel of the idea was sort of there. That's right. No, I think you're right. And just like how any asset in excess can become a defect, right, it's just the nature of these things that, to your point, at their root, a lot of these, you know, and it talks about this in sort of a literature. It's like it's these base primal desire run riot. You know, we all need shelter, we all want to approcreate, we all need food, we all need a certain level of security. But I needed

in such excess that it presents an issue. Yep, yep. So I want to for listeners who don't know much about who you are, paint a quick picture of you and who you are and what your life is, just so that it informs the rest of this conversation. So I'm going to do a very crude summary, and then you can correct anything that I say that you don't love.

But in essence, you were a star on a Nickelodeon show, Drake and Josh, which my kids watched, by the way, as you and I talked about, and so you were a child actor, child star, and then you've gone on to act in some other ways, and then you've also become pretty big on social media, YouTube and Instagram and different things, and so that's generally been the arc of your professional life. And what you've done. Was that safe to say? I know it was a vast summary it. Yeah,

I'm just an actor. I did a show called Drake and Josh when I was a kid. You know, I don't know like terms of child star and things like this. I think that's like weirdly, like it has like a

negative tone to it. So I just kind of say, like, I was an actor and then I've been acting for the last twenty years, and I'm on a show called How I Met Your Father now, and have this small part of the new Christopher Nolan movie called Oppenheimer coming out, and oh this movie thirteen actually the musical for Netflix coming out August twelve, which so I imagine that might be around when this comes out. Ish so happy to

plug that. But yeah, I'm just an actor and I've been doing it since I was ten, and so I guess I got into it a little earlier than other people. And I also do social media and digital content, and

I have a podcast, Male Models, and I guess a book. Now. Yeah, what you just said about acting now, I want to dive in there for a second, because late in the book, you were sort of going through a phase where the work you were doing in social media was going very very well, but your acting career you weren't finding much work, and at one point you made the decision to sort of, instead of being frustrated by that, let that go and

now it sounds like you are acting more again. Did the letting go of it to some extent actually, you think help you become a better actor and then get re engaged in newer roles. Well, I think the letting go as a result of a lot of work that I had to do to be able to let go in that respect, right, because like letting go and I talked about in the book was kind of like a bumper sticker, right, Like we've we've heard that before in

all facets of life. Once you stop carrying is when it all comes to you and you know, let go and let God And it sounds good, But how do you get there? You know? I had to let go of it from an ego point of view because I had worked for you know, the greater part of twenty years.

The time which you're referencing was like a two plus year sort of dry spurt where my ego was so damaged by this idea of like, oh God, like a reckoning needed to happen because the data suggested that I would have kept working, but I had to be okay with if I didn't. It was sort of like the universe conspiring to be like whether you work or not. From this moment on, you gotta be okay just being you.

And so the only way you're going to be forced to do this work, because for me, pain is a great motivator, is if we remove this thing that feature ego. You know, we're gonna have to remove this thing that allows you to kind of circumvent the work and put a pause on really looking at yourself. So during those two plus years where to your point, like I was really lucky to be doing well in social media, but you know, in my traditional career, I wasn't working as much.

I was forced to be like, is this my identity or is my identity that I'm a good man, I'm trying to be a good father. I'm a so a guy trying to be a good friend and a good son. And that will remain true whether I'm the biggest star in the world or just continue on to be like this journeyman actor who goes from part to part. Yeah, I love what you're saying. They're about letting go. It's such a cliche. It's ultimately very true, like learning to let go is an enormously helpful skill, but it is

not as easy as it used to be. I remember early on in in sobriety people saying like, well, you just gotta let go, And I was like, if I knew how, I would like, I recognize the wisdom in that, But try as I might, like, I'm doing what I think is letting go, but this thing isn't going. It's still right here. And there's an author her name is Sue monk Kid, and she's a fiction author, but she has a line somewhere that says, you know, letting go

is this spiraling, winding process, you know. And I love that description of it, that letting go is something that happens over time. It's not we just set our will and let something go if it's important to us. It's not that easy. Yeah. I think it's addition through subtraction. And for most of my life I thought I had to add all these like really pretty ornaments to my

soul to make me more attractive to people. But in a weird way, it was like stripping away, getting back to the real meme and removing the sub trifuge that I had picked up along the way to sort of either as a defense mechanism to protect me or just to look like more attractive to my employer or the opposite sex or whomever. So let's start kind of back in the beginning. Early in the book, you say that food was a menacing force to the pecks. So food

was a problem in your family. Talk to me about you know, we might say food being your first addiction. You want to share a little bit about the early days with that. Well, I have a son and he's three, and so I already see the way in what societal sort of norms are that you know, I've already fallen victim to making food a celebration him. For my son, it makes him feel better. It's the thing that we do when you know, you go to a birthday party, or if he behaves correctly, then he'll earn a treat.

And I'm like, oh, God, Like here I am falling victim to all the things that I think had a hand in the reason why I was what I was at that age. But of course we know most kids are like my son, and that they get birthday cake at birthdays, and that eating a treat is an exciting thing or popcorn at the movies. But for a good portion of people, they just sort of go out of it and they develop a healthy relationship with food. I was not that way. I had a pretty unhealthy relationship

with food from the beginning. And I overdid it. And I would sneak in your snack closet if I came over for a plate, and I was rummaging through your drawers, and I was kind of having my own little private party overdoing it. You know. I didn't eat chocolate like my fellows. And I could see with my mom that she was too having a similar experience with food, but she was older and it was wayne on her, so I kind of knew. Yeah, everybody talked about food growing up,

everybody talked about food. I don't know whether it was being Jewish or from the East Coast or what, but everything was like around what are we eating now? What are we going to eat later? And what are we eating tomorrow? And growing up like my uncle I remember, who was in like always been in like fairly good shape. Like the obsession became like, well how do I eat and stay in good shape? You know, and like and

then that was the part of it. Whereas like my mom and I were on the heavier side, you know, then like there were people in my family who were in great shape. But that was the obsession, right, So it was just kind of different sides of the coin. I'm not sure how you would say this. Would you say that you were overweight in those years? Society is changing and how we talk about these things. So I want to be sensitive. I appreciate it. No, it's very fat, okay, okay.

And you were really sort of obsessed with that at the same time, right you You talk in the book about you know this idea, you know, once I lose weight, once I lose weight, once I lose weight at being sort of this great obsession. Yeah, I hated being overweight.

And to your point, I don't mean to be insensitive, because there were people at my age even then in the nineties kind of pre body positivity, of people who were totally comfortable and happy being overweight and unencumbered by it, and guys who would like whip their shirts off and jump in the pool and have a belly like I did but didn't think twice, whereas I was like busy putting on my second like turtleneck before I got in

the pool, and I think it totally existed. I just happened to be very affected by it, and in a weight can be a manifest station of many things. In its best form, it can be a manifestation of someone who lives well and enjoys eating and dining and experiencing things, and for them that's all it is. But for me, it was a manifestation of a desire in which to overdo things, to kind of numb out, to not feel, to not think, and so it was a source of pain for me. It's funny, it's not still this way

for me. But when I was a kid, my problem was I was so skinny I could not put on weight. But I was the same way and that I would not want to take my shirt off at the pool because I thought I was too skinny. So I guess, you know, we're so concerned with how someone else is

going to view us. And by the way, like my wife comes from this family of athletes, of people who in theory have like a very you know, picture perfect type genetic makeup, and like I see insecurities with them all the time, and you know, there's a part of me that wants to make light like I'm sure people did when you were young and being thin, like make light of their struggle and say like, oh, give me a break like, oh, you don't like your elbows like,

you know, try being a hundred pounds overweight, you know. But it's like to your point, I think most people have something that it makes them thoroughly uncomfortable about the way they look. Yeah, And so you went from food being sort of your primary way that you coped with life to drugs and alcohol being the way you did. And I wanted to just read a little bit that you wrote about that, because there's some some great lines

in here that I loved. You basically say, someone once asked me what it felt like to be addicted to drugs, and this is how I described it. Imagine you've spent your entire life trying to listen to a radio station, but every time you tuned in there with static, you were certain you were on the right frequency, but the signal was never very strong. And then one day you accidentally bumped the knob and suddenly all the auditory goodness you've been waiting for to hear your entire life fills

your ears in surround sound. You've been on the wrong wavelength, but not anymore. That's what drugs felt like me. I wasn't tuning out. I was tuning in. I just I love that description of it. It's one of the better descriptions I've heard, and it mirrors my experience completely. Yeah, thank you, And you know, I naturally, once I got older, I lost Swede and I was the same head in a new body. I found, you know, drugs and alcohol, and it was very efficacious without the same calorie content.

So it seemed like like a clear winner. But inevitably, Yeah, to your point. I mean, look, I say in the book, like if when you do drugs and alcohol, the effect it has on you is that you begin to confuse being high with being alive, because throughout most of your life you're walking around so in your head, so self centered, so worried about what other people think, so sensitive and analytical to the world around you, and kind of that snort or that smoke or that whatever gives you a

moment of quiet. I think it's no wonder why you know, someone like me, or not to speak for you, someone like you or whoever, why anyone would be like, oh, why would ever want to feel any other way? Yep? Yeah, that idea of I wasn't tuning out, I was tuning in really speaks to me. So much because I just felt like that's what it was at first. You know, it was drinking for me. It made me feel like connected to the world in a way I never normally did.

In a way it was an escape from the way I felt, but it wasn't an attempt to escape from the world. That actually allowed me to engage with the world in a more meaningful way than I'd ever been able to up to that point. Yeah, it just has diminishing returns. It works so well and then it just doesn't, and then the wreckage that it leaves in its path becomes not worth it, yep. And so you lose a

bunch of weight and you're still not happy. So you go through food, but it has diminishing returns, becomes a problem. You know. I was twenty one years old and had lost all this weight, and I remember I was starting in this movie that I was extremely proud of, called The Wackness with Sir Ben Kingsley, who's my favorite apt during I remember at sixteen doing Drake and Josh and being overweight and just feeling like I just want to be an actor. I don't even want to be remarkable.

I just don't want to only be the funny fact guy. I don't mind it, but I would love to be considered just like a proper actor who can like transform into different roles and not just be like one thing only. And so you know, I finished the show at nineteen, and I'm well into my addiction. But I booked this movie because I've been working on my acting, which I've done to the last, you know, fifteen years in class and studying, because I'm just a theater nerd at heart.

And night I love it and I wind up wreaking this great part and I dreamt of going to Sundance because I've been there at sixteen because I had this other small part in the movie and just dreamed of like one day I'll be here and I'll be in a movie that I'm proud of and it will be so great. So I'm twenty one, I'm there the movie screens for fift people in Quentin Tarantino is in the crowd, and I'm like, oh my God, like this is happening, like I will this, I will this in the being

and then I remember the credits role. My manager whispers to me and goes there standing and I turned around in this it was like people were telling me, I was okay, Like you're okay, Josh, You're You're gonna be okay, You're worth while. And I go home that night, and I woke up the next morning and I think what I believed in my head that I was going to go to bed and wake up and I was going to be a new man, that the old Josh would

be gone. I had lost the weight, I had gotten that career moment, and I just felt like, if there was ever a finish line, this must be it, right and it wasn't. And I woke up the next morning with that same shitty committee in my head that woke up a few minutes before I did that would tell

me all the reasons why I wasn't enough. And I got sober two weeks after that because it confirmed my worst suspicion that I had had throughout most of my life, which was that I was bottomless and that nothing outside of me be at a six pack, which I didn't have, but I was working on or you know, being in

this movie, this career prestige or what have you. It didn't matter, and there was nothing of the outside world that was going to fix the inner meet and of course I tried drugs, alcohol, and food and that didn't

help either. So, you know, I walked into a twelve Step meeting because I had been going to them my whole life because my mom was in twelve Step and I would just sit there on my game boy until I was old enough to stay home alone, like kind of hearing what was going on, but really tuned out. But eventually the seed that was planted was when I was twenty one and I was like, finally convinced that

my way wasn't working anymore. I was like, well, I do know of this one place and it seems to have an effect on people, and that's where I went, and I, you know, knock would have been sober ever since you described when you said that your mom used to go. You said that you knew the serenity prayer before you knew algebra, which I think is funny. In speaking of your mom, You've got another analogy in here

which I love. And you're talking about how hard it is to be around an addict, you know, and you say that person has to sit there and except being radiated while the addict becomes nuclear And what a great, great analogy for what that's like, you know, even though it's the addict who's ultimately suffering the most destruction, boy,

everybody around him get sick. Oh yeah, I mean that's a great lie that any alcoholic who tell themselves, and you just have to watch intervention to know that it's true that we rationalize and believe that we're the only ones being hurt. You know, that we're only hurting ourselves.

And you know, this is why other programs exist for the family and friends of alcoholics, because it can affect people in a really deep way, and it really takes a lot of guts and a lot of work to walk away from, you know, people that are as close as it gets, you know, children, parents, siblings, to you know, a spouse, to be able to walk away and say like I can't do anything for you, and me sticking around is actually enabling you. And I'll be here if you want to get help and do the work, but

until then, like I can't be around you. Like that is a huge order for most people. And so yeah, I think that's you know, that's so true, and I see it now even in my daily life as far as just like you know, especially in the family unit, like if one person is suffering. We're all suffering to a certain extent. Tell me about what it was like for you arriving into twelve Step meetings and recovery. What

was that initial experience like for you? You know, if you think about the way we started with this sort of like didactic parable, right, and that it's you know, you know you need this wildly successful podcast after it, so obviously it resonated with you. And what it is is it's putting into words what we know is sort of like some ancient truth and to me, religion or spirituality or self help, like it's just repurposing ancient truths, like things that we have always known over time to

be true and really good. And for me, twelve Step the brilliance of it was the packaging, the way that it packaged ancient truths to a guy like me, you know, a knuckle had like me, where I could hear it and hear other people talking about their experience and go, oh, I'm not alone anymore. I'm part of Because I think that's something that you know, our brain in its worst place,

wants us alone. It wants us to feel unique, it wants us to feel like the world doesn't get it that if you had my head on your shoulders, you do the same thing. But you don't, so you'll never get it. And the reality is when I walked into those meetings, like I heard people telling my story and people who drank and used and you know, treated people and felt the way that I did. But they weren't a glum lot. They weren't walking around shattered. They were

like these wonderful members of society. And they were like cracking up and laughing at these things that most of society would have like, you know, cast their eyes downward at and felt uncomfortable as you were sharing them. So suddenly I wasn't alone in this thing, and it seemed possible to have a full life while feeling all these things like that there was a solution. Yeah, you have a line that you said was a quote from a sober friend who said that the people in recovery didn't

tell me what was wrong with me. You told me what was wrong with you, and I identified And I love that because as an addict or an alcoholic, you've been told plenty of times what's wrong with you. You kind of know on some extent, but when you get to recovery. You know, people are sharing what it's like

for them and we're able to identify. Yeah, it's the magic and need to knowing that someone else has walked through what you're going through and that they've been able to do it with grace and you know, in a respectable way, talk to me about fifteen years in. You know, in what ways is your recovery program similar to what it was fifteen years ago? In what ways is it different? And also maybe what having a child has done also

for your recovery one way or the other. I think, you know, what it reaffirms is I get a little bit more time under my belt or two things. One it's only more of the basics. It's only doubling down on the foundation of things. And then two it's it's peeling the onion. You know, more will be revealed. And there are things now that I deal with that you know, with a little bit of time sober at fourteen years and in no way could I have ever looked at

in six months or one year or eighteen months. And you know, I don't like playing the time game because there are certainly guys who have thirty plus years of sobriety that are fats smoked two packs a day and divorced, and I don't want what they have, and they're always right, and I just straight up don't want what they have.

And there are people who like come in with six months that are on fire and like literal spiritual beings walking around and you know, are like in it and doing for people and have commitments and are putting their hand out and helping. You know, a bunch of people

in can feel like so inspired by them. But what I will say the benefit of having time and not going in and out is that you do to me this deep work that comes with continuing to peel the onion and continuing to you know, face things head on as they reveal themselves to you of the human condition and of past traumas and things you've walked through. And I'm dealing with it. Recently, if I was on the show with John SteamOS called Grandfathered and it was great and we did a season on Fox and it and

it got canceled. Or recently I was on the show Turner and Hooch and on Disney Plus and we were so proud of it and it was this fabulous experience and it only went one season, and you know, I've recently been dealing with this idea of like, is it possible to enjoy these things fully without being the cynic without protection? Right? And it doesn't mean that you go spend all the money or you act irrationally, but like, I find that I'm still guarded after all this time.

I'm a little kid in certain ways, and I don't want to totally enjoy it because I know that the data suggests there's a good chance it won't work out. And what I want to see, hopefully, or what I'm going to work on, is like can I enjoy things fully and give my little heart over to these things and be in it and be present knowing that, like, yeah, there's a chance it won't work out, and even if I experience this holy I'll still be able to keep

moving forward if it doesn't work out. And I don't think I had those thoughts when I was two years sober. I think I was more worried about like letting go of the road rage and making sure, you know, women weren't mad at me because you know, I just wanted

a casually date and they wanted a boyfriend. I definitely think that there's a lot to what you're saying, at least for me, that the sort of things that bother me about the way I act in the way I behave would have seemed completely insignificant to me at two years sober, you know. I mean I would have been like, what so, what so you do that? Who cared? Like?

I mean, everybody doesn't, you know. I've heard some people say, you know, the road gets narrower, and I don't like that analogy in a lot of ways, But in this way, I think, at least for me, is the road has gotten narrower as I've cleaned up some of the more gross misbehaviors and gross ways of thinking. Um, I don't mean gross and disgusting, I mean like net and gross.

As I've gotten rid of some of those, I've been able to get to your point clearer and clearer on really sort of what you're talking about here and what ways is my ego and my fear continuing to get in my way? And I love what you're just saying about being able to give ourselves to things wholeheartedly and then be able to let go of the outcome to some degree, you know, And for me it's been a lot more clarity on Okay, how do I focus my

energy and my effort on what I do? And it's kind of back to what you learned before algebra, the serenity prayer, right, Like, Okay, I can control how much effort and how much work I put into this show and how much I care and all that, I can't control what happens after my part's done. Yeah, what a journey that is. It's I think it's something that we can ideally work on every day. And it sounds good.

That sounds like the goal. Yeah, to your point, I'm working on that because the little kid in me, the disappointed little boy, you know, wants to insulate myself from pain and I want to protect myself. I want to fortify myself. I will never feel this way again. I'll never allow myself to feel this way again. I never want to be duped. I never want to be discouraged.

And you know, I was listening to Malcolm Gladwell talk earlier about how like, you know, the reason why we have so much success is a society and as human beings is is because we're so trusting. Like if you look at animals in the animal kingdom, right, like they pretty much like they get any whiff of trouble, they're out gone. And like that wouldn't actually lend itself to good business dealings, and like because the moment anything felt

remotely uncomfortable, everyone would head for the hills. But we're naturally a trusting people because we are hoping for the best. It's part of us. And so yeah, to me, it's like, I'm thirty five now and I've you know, been lucky enough to like have these great sort of moments every couple of years of work and doing these new shows.

And if that's going to continue, it's like, well, can I just enjoy it for what it is, you know, with a contingency on only if it goes five seasons or only if it's this, or only if it hits this marker, then I'll enjoy it. Yeah, it was struck by that in the book, this idea, and I think this is a human condition thing. I don't think there's

an alcoholic thing. I think this is a human condition thing, which is I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I lose the weight, I'll be happy when the fame comes, I'll be happy when I have X amount of money, I'll be happy when and that game just continues to play out until we start to look at it. And in the book you talk about having to be willing to let go of the positive things in life, you know,

being willing to say, okay, it's okay if that goes. Also, I heard a woman say at a meeting once that you are the fish you're trying to catch. You're the love of your life. You're everything you've been searching for. And that's the good and the bad news. She said, If you're really trying to become happy, what are you willing to let go of that stands between you and happiness?

Because the glaring sort of defects are clear, right, we all want to let go of our anger, Like I don't know, there's a lot of people who are like I really want to hold onto my rage. Most people don't want to be getting out of their car on the four oh five with a bat, you know. Most people don't want to be stealing or incredibly slothful and lazy. Like those are very clear things that it's like, oh yeah, if I could work on that, I'd love to lose that.

But then there are these like surreptitious things. They're these like underlying things that are really hard to pick up on, and some of them are deeply rooted in like my identity. So in that respect, it's like, can you let go of that relationship that you think to find you? Can you let go of that you know, job that you

think you can't live without? And it doesn't mean like that you go and clean house of all the things that are good in your life too, but like for someone like me, it means you might have to go through a period where you're not getting that ego fulfillment and that validation to know that you can be okay without it. Yeah, it's amazing sort of how we do put conditions on happiness. You know, I'll be happy if I get X, if I get why, and that just

doesn't turn out to be true. I think what's so hard about that is that, sort of like drugs and alcohol, those things work for a little while. It was like, if getting ego fulfillment didn't work at all, it would be easy to see through it. It would be easy to be like, that's not ultimately going to make me happy, but it does work for a little while. If getting a new car didn't make me feel better for two weeks. It would be easy to be like, well, who cares.

But it does work for a little while, in the same way that drugs and alcohol worked for a little while. But it's sort of seen through the whole thing and going, oh, when I start putting all these conditions on my happiness, I'm limiting the ways it can show up for me, and I'm blocking it from coming in other avenues. Yeah, I heard it said once. You know, my ego needs a banquet every two hours, and my soul needs a cruton.

You know, I've been looking for God and everything forever, and it was in getting her phone number, or getting that job, or even you know, a great looking shirt. You know that can be deliverance for a couple of minutes, but inevitably it's all fallen short. Yeah, let's talk about ego for a second, because in the book you talk for a little bit about this idea where you say

that ego it's a funny thing. We need it in moments of extreme adversity, that vo race, that inner Joe Pesci can sometimes be the only thing that pushes you to get out of bed in the morning. And then you say, ego is what delivered me. It's also what

totally screwed me. Yeah, I mean specifically, what I'm talking about is that during that time, my ego was the thing you know in that chapter I'm talking about sort of the duality of it, because when I was three hundred pounds, you know, playing the funny chubby guy on a kid's TV show, you know this idea that like I would make it as like an action star, you know, at a hundred eighty pounds, Like it's a nice goal, but it almost would seem you know, delusional, and yet

my ego was like no, no, no, like we're gonna do it. Forget it, you know, f all that we're going to do it. And I was like, great, we'll just pass me the bread sticks and we'll formulate a

play in tomorrow. And then inevitably I did do it, and I like lost weight, and I remember people would say, like, sure you want to do this, like as the funny big guy, you're one of three guys going out for roles, Like now you're gonna be going against like Jake jillenhal Not really, but you know what I mean, like proper like skinny actors that they're like, you know, thousands of are you sure, And again it was always in my brain of like, screw them, they don't get it, they

don't get you. And then I get there and I was, you know, starring in this action movie, which of course I made, you know, the fact that I don't love my performance in it. You know, the movie is not The Godfather at the end of the day, Like I've also realized that twenty years later, almost that you know, I made this experience of not doing a good job in this movie allowed to sort of haunt me for over a decade, when in reality the movie was somewhat flawed,

but inevitably it doesn't matter. I just remember showing up on that set going like we got here, and now I guess I should amend that. I didn't realize until after the movie was done that I wasn't ready for that part. I wasn't capable of doing it. I wasn't in the place to do that just as an actor, just emotionally, I couldn't do it. But my ego had gotten me to that moment, and it told me like, we'll just fake it till we make it, like we'll

figure it out. But at that point, my ego had turned on me because I wasn't in survival mode anymore, and at that point I needed to do the work and I couldn't do it. Back to sort of what you said earlier, too little or too much of anything becomes problematic, right, you know, I mean, some degree of ego is what's needed as a human in the world, and too much of it will will absolutely make us

miserable and destroy us. What you were just alluding to is um a section in the book where you are as you say, cast is sort of action hero in a movie, and that part of the problem there was you really tried to go in there and be somebody that you weren't, and then that caused you not to be who you were, which is what they brought you in to be you. And so it was sort of this thinking, I have to be somebody else in order to succeed here. Totally. That's been a theme throughout my

whole life. If I'm only more masculine, if I'm better shape, if I'm a better I mean, I guess in theory it's good to want to be a better actor. But yeah, it's all these things. It's all this projection of instead of realizing like, unfortunately I'm limited by the skin on my face and the way my voice sounds like I am who I am, like people are buying it or not, so I can either be the best version of me or not do the role. My friend Brian Garretty is

a great actor. You know, He's worked with Denzel Washington and Sean Penn and Julie Roberts and we're just brilliant, brilliant people. And he always said, you know, when I get a script and I'm working on a role, I have questions, usually for the director, and there are things that I need to understand or work on, and things that I might feel like neat improvement. And I try to do that with the director, and if we can't make it better, then I want to give them enough

time to recast. And I love that because it's this idea of like, if you've picked me, here's how I can give you the best version of what I think is the right thing, obvious, silly in concert with what you're thinking and servicing the writing, which we should all be doing. But if we realize that we are at an impast or we're viewing this differently, or your idea of who this character is is something that I just

don't think I can live up to. Well, then perhaps it's better we part ways and you find someone that can do that. But normally, before this, before I had that level of security, I would have said, well, let me just bend myself into this kind of pretzel and maybe now you'll eat me. Yes. YEA makes me think about,

certainly how I used to approach dating. Was I would, you know, meet somebody and be like, all right, I want them to like me, and here's who I think I need to be in order to achieve that, So

I will bend myself kind of into that shape. That's a losing game no matter how you play it, because either A it doesn't work because they're like, well this person isn't authentic and I don't like them and you're you're out the door, or be it does work and they go, okay, yes, I like that version of you, And then of course I wasn't capable of can hinue to be that version of me? Then you're in a relationship that's really the wrong place to be because you

didn't enter it authentically. And as I've gotten older and hopefully wiser, I've really realized, you know, taking that into all areas of life, like the more that I can just be myself all land in places that are the right place for me to be, and if and if I don't land there, it's probably not the right place. You know, it just doesn't work for me and them, right. It's exhausting trying to keep up a false sort of

projection of yourself. Yeah, it surely is. So talk to me about the title of the book, Happy People are Annoying. What made you decide to make that the title of

the book. I think the title actually, in hindsight, might have been I'm not sure how I feel about it, to be honest, I think it was kitchy and fun in the interests of writing a lighter book when I first started, and then I wrote, you know, there's a book you intend to write, and then there's a book that you write again in honoring sort of what I felt like I most to give to the world, or what I thought the best version of this book would be.

It was kind of being raw and honest and sharing this story and hoping that perhaps people could feel like they got from my story a little bit of perspective or just like a feeling of like oh, I'm not alone in this, because it's been through people being willing to be vulnerable with me that I've gotten so much help through life. So I think it best you know.

The title and the cover is kind of this fun beating switch of saying like, I know you think you grew up with me, and you think you know me, and that is a part of me, but it surely isn't the whole picture. And now you've bought this book because you thought it was one thing, and here's what it really is. Got it. So at the end, though, you do have some reflections on happiness that I think are really important, and you say this theme has come

up several times in the book. You quote a friend who says too much sunshine brings about a das joy will come as quickly and as strongly as sadness will, and the psycho will repeat in a beautifully funked up ballet of ups and downs till the sun eats the earth and it's back. I think to that idea we've touched on a couple of times. Too little or too much of one thing, you know, whether it's what we actually get or what we try to get, causes us problems.

I think that's so right on, which is probably why I wrote it. No, Like, no, I love the way you said it. Yeah, it's too much sun brings about a desert. I remember when I heard my buddies say that at a meeting, and I just was like, oh my god. I just have never understood why if something is great, it can't just last and stay. But that you know, a level of balance is required in all things. Again,

it's lack of reaction. It's my unattachment. Like that's the best sort of campaign or not defense of but like sales pitch for meditation I've ever heard, which is that like it's becoming an observer of these transient emotions that will inevitably come in and out of our lives on a regular basis, good days and bad days, that it has to happen, and like the ability in which to observe it, and on a real Jedi level to not react to either and just be a sort of like

a resting contentment. You know, there are a few days out of the year where I am in that place and I'm like, oh, this sure is nice. So I think I'm constantly working towards that. Yeah, yeah, me too, for sure. One of the things that attracted me to spirituality when I first was exposed to it was in high school and it was then Buddhism, But somewhere in there I got the idea that, like, there was a way to have some degree of being okay amongst the

vicissitudes of life. You know. I think even at that age, I was like, well, you're gonna get good and you're gonna get bad. That doesn't seem to be any getting around that, okay, So how do you cope with that? I think has been something I've been interested in ever since. And I think it's partially what when I really got that line in the Big Book that we talked about about, you know, selfishness, self centeredness being the root of my problem? That root of my problem is I'm always going Am

I happy? Am I happy? Am I happy? Enough? Am I am I? You know? Oh? I don't feel good at How could I feel better? That is what makes me miserable. And when I'm able to the extent that I can let go of that is the extent I

seem to get some degree of peace. Yeah. I love when people, you know, in sobriety get a year sober, and basically they get kind of like a whack on the ass, going okay, great, now go help somebody else, like stop thinking about you like the first year, like smoke a pack of cigarettes every day if you have to, and eat a bunch of junk food and play like do whatever you gotta do, just like dry out, Like the only thing you have to do today is not

drink or not use or whatever your thing is. But like the moment they get like any kind of long term sobriety into their belt, it's like, okay, now, the only way this actually works is if you're giving it away and like helping someone else. It's so annoying because sometimes I just want to play video games and smoke cigarettes, not the cigarettes part, but you get it therek totally.

Is there anything else that you feel like we haven't covered that feels important from your book or going on in your mind these days that you're thinking about anything? You think? Yeah, No, I mean I think it's just been a great conversation. And I'm a fan of the pod and and so I just you know, I love chatting. I'm so glad we got to do this. Yeah, Celebrity books aren't usually something i'm a little reticent on. This one was really really good. I've loved it. I thought

there was so much great stuff in it. So thank you so much for coming on. Oh, thank you, And I guess I just would love to give my podcast Male Models a plug. That's it, but thank you man. This has been great. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You Feed podcast. When you join our membership community. With this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits. It's our way of saying thank

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