Paria Hassouri on Parenting a Transgender Child

self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks

for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Paria Hassuri, a pediatrician, writer, transgender rights activists, and most importantly, a mother of three. Her personal essays have been published in The New York Times, Washington Post, l a Times, Huffington Post, and many more. Her book is entitled Found in Transition, A Mother's Evolution during her Child's Gender Change. Hello, Pario, Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you today, pleasure

to have you on. Your book is called Found in Transition, A Mother's Evolution during her Child's Gender Change. And it is a beautiful and powerful book, and we'll talk about it in a moment, but we'll start the way we always do, with the parable. There's a grandmother who's talking with her granddaughter and she says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,

which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the granddaughter stops and she thinks about it for a second. She looks up at her grandmother and she says, well, grandmother, which one wins? And the grandmother says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well. I think, very very specifically regarding this book, there is a part where I talk about parenting through a lens of fear versus a

lens of love. And that's sort of the immediate thing that I think about when I think about this parable was of which wolf was gonna win? And you know, I think in the first half of the book, I parent my daughter with fear, and in the second half, or you know, I start parenting her with love. And in the beginning, when I'm parenting with fear, of fear is winning, and and in the end, when I'm parenting

with love, love is winning. So to me, you know, it's exactly that you know, you decide which one you want to feed, and and that's the one that's going to to win. So that's what it makes me think of. Yeah, and I love that very short, succinct idea. Am I acting out of love or am I acting out of fear? It's a very simple question that can very quickly help

us orient where we are. Yes, definitely. Now, your book, on one hand, was very specific in that you know, you're talking about your daughter and her coming out as trans and those changes, So in that way, your story

is not universal. And yet at the same time, your story is incredibly universal because so much of it is about a parent and what we want for our children, and the fears we have for them, and the attempts to control or let go of our children that I think every parent goes through so much of that, and so in that way, I found the book incredibly universal. As you were talking about your daughter, Eva, I was thinking about, Yeah, I I felt some of those same

things with my son. You know, they were different, different challenges each families have different things, but very universal in that way. And you know, I think that it's really important to think about that idea too. We can really spend a lot of our time being afraid for our kids,

or we can really think about the love angle. Yeah, I agree, And I think that was part of my goal in writing this book was to write a book that I thought would be universally appealing, because I think most people don't really read enough, if at all, about you know, trans kids, or you know, trans people, or families with a trans child. Most people don't think that this really applies to them, you know, at all, or it may not even be a topic that's in any

way on their radar or any part of their interests. Certainly, before my daughter came out, trans people were not on

my radar, you know at all, UM. And so I thought that, you know, if I write this book that I thought would have universal appeal and people who would maybe not otherwise pick up a book like this, UM, you know, heard about it and did pick it up and read it because you know, it has all these other themes of parenting and identity and self discovery, and it would get people who wouldn't normally read about trans children, you know, our family with a trans child, to read

about it, and and it would start to sort of change how they would think. And and also that I think we all do probably have either a family member or you know, a close friend who is struggling actually with the very things that I struggle with in this book, specifically to having a trans child. And then obviously we all, you know, as parents, struggle with sort of the expectations we have for our kids, what we want for them, and really fear and you know a lot of fear

based parenting. Absolutely. So let's start with the broad strokes and maybe you could tell us just the basics of the story what happened. So basically, I have three kids, UM, and I had them within five years of each other, and in May of seventeen, my middle child, who was thirteen and a half at that time, came out to us as a trans girl. We thought that she was a boy, and at thirteen and a half she came

out as a trans girl. And my husband and I had never ever thought that there was any possibility that she might be trans, so we were completely blindsided by it when this happened. And I'm a pediatrician. My husband actually happened to have some trans clients, so he had some experience with trans people. And despite all of this, we were both completely blindsided. And that's because I would say that my child had no signs of how I

thought all trans people present at that time. You know, as a kid, she never wanted to do anything that we traditionally associate with being a girl. She didn't resist haircuts, she always wore like shorts, T shirts and crocs. She never wanted to play with dolls. She always liked you know, trains and cars and legos, and when she was a little bit older, never said, you know, I don't want to be a boy. I want to be a girl.

I don't like my penis. I mean, anything you hear and see in the media about trans kids and how they present. She didn't have any of those. Um So, really, when she, at thirteen and a half, looking like a teenage boy, told us that she's a girl, we were completely shocked. And I would say I wasn't actually initially sad about it. I was initially angry about it because I thought that it wasn't true and that she was

just doing this for attention for some reason. It took me about six months or so of sort of anger and denial before I was forced to really start listening to her. And then after I started doing my own research and going to support groups and talking to people, I learned that about half of trans people do not actually come out until puberty or later, not just don't come out until puberty or labor, because there's a difference between knowing that your trans and and suppressing it and

hiding it. That they don't necessarily know or feel that their gender identity doesn't match with their sex signate verse until their body starts going through puberty and changing, or possibly even later. Yeah, a couple of things in there I thought were so important. One is that idea I think we all think, if we're uneducated, that if someone is in the wrong body for themselves, that they would know it very early on, and that you would see

that from the time their child. And what you learned and have gone on to see is that that's not the case. You said, a lot of people they present later in adolescence or even after that, and I think that's such an important point. The other thing that I thought about your story was so relatable was the fact that she had always been troubled in a lot of ways. You guys didn't know what was going on, and so when this happened, you just thought it was just another phase,

you know. And I think what you wrestled with is what a lot of people would probably wrestle with with a child at that age, which is, oh, my goodness, if this is true and we start allowing or helping with a transition, what if it is just a phase?

And so talk to me a little bit about working through that and how you all stimately got to a point where you said, Okay, you know what, transitioning is the right thing, and it's good to support her now instead of saying, oh, let's just wait till she's eighteen or older. Well, I think a lot of it was having to just really get educated. Um So I think the fear of a lot of parents is what if

this is a phase and what if this doesn't last? So, you know, ultimately we ended up with a physician who has been doing trans care for over twenty years and he told us and everything you know we've read, and you know, also ended up with a therapist who this is you know. All he does is that once a child starts puberty, if they are telling you that their trans, that the likelihood that they're not or that they'll change their mind is only two to three percent, which is

a pretty low number. Son of kids once they've started puberty, if they truly feel that, you know, they are trans, and that there's a mismatch between their gender identity and the sex they were signed at birth, it is not a phase and it is not temporary. You know a lot of trans kids who are supported. I mean, there's so much research and articles on trans kid who are supported by their families versus trans kids who are not supported by their families. But trans kids who are not

supported by their families. Trans teenagers, i should say not children have a three times increased risk of suicide compared to other teenagers. But if they're supported by their families, then their risk of suicide is the same as other teenagers who assist gender. I think it's forty three percent of trans people who are not supported attempt suicide at

some point. So these numbers are really staggering. And for our daughter, you know, over that six month period where I was in denial and anger and grief and all of these things while I was trying to, you know, figure out what to do, her mental state was deteriorating. And in the beginning before telling us, she was doing a little bit of self harming because she didn't know

how to tell us. And then there was a period where she seemed to be doing okay, and then she was having thoughts of self harm again when I finally decided, okay, I need to really get her the appropriate care. Obviously

there's the depression and suicide thoughts. That's one thing. The other thing with supporting trans teenagers earlier is just in terms of what their outcomes are in terms of their physical appearance and how much easier it is for them to you know, starting medications and treatments earlier, you know,

present more as a gender they identify with. It makes a big difference versus waiting until they're eighteen, when their body has either fully feminized or fully masculinized, you know, in the direction that is not consistent with how they feel.

And so, you know, if you look at young adults right now who presented as trans when they were kids, and right when they started puberty, their puberty was blocked, and then they went on to be treated with hormones that match their gender identity without having surgery, you would not be able to tell, you know, that they're trans. They very much, you know, pass which is you know, a term used to say that they look like their CIS gender counterparts. So and that makes a big difference.

You know, for most people, that makes life easier. It is not easy to be a trans person. There is a lot of discrimination still, I mean, hopefully eventually. I would love if, at some point, you know, you could be born with the body you're born and just say, yeah, this is what my body is, but I feel like a woman or a man, or I feel both or neither or whatever, and it wouldn't matter what you looked like versus what you felt. But we are not at

that point. We are at the point where it's still makes a big difference, you know, whether your appearance is consistent with your gender identity or not. And in the book you show several times where you saw a trans person and immediately sort of had not necessarily a negative

opinion of them. But but that was the first thing you noticed, and every time you did, you reflected on That's not what you want to be the first thing that people noticed about your daughter, you know, notice her intelligence, or her kindness or all these other things, don't first notice that she's trans. Correct. Yes, And I would catch myself doing that as soon as I would see I mean, it still happens, you know. The other day I got

a phone call again from somebody, you know. I was inquiring about a service, and I got a phone call and the name, let's say it was Jennifer, you know. And I picked up the phone and Jennifer said hello, and right away from the voice, I thought to myself, Oh, Jennifer is trance, you know. And you don't want that to be the first thing people notice about your child, you know. You you just want them to see your

child for who they are, not. Oh, you know, this child is trans, and you know all these things, but just this child is this person, you know? So that was definitely something I cared about a lot when she first came out, and I really evolved in that, you know, not being nearly as sensitive about it, and just saying, you know, if people look at her and are able to tell that she's trans and and notice that about

her before they notice other things, so be it. It really would just take a few minutes of talking to her to realize how incredible she is otherwise and sort of not see her as an incredible trans person, but just an incredible person. But that's what you want for your kid. In the book, you do a lot of worrying about her, which is totally normal. You've got all the normal parental worries, and you've got the worries about she's trans, and yes there is discrimination, and how is

she going to be treated? And is she going to be bullied? And you've got all these things, and you have a fairly poignant part in the book where you talk about she's laying on the couch one day and you guys, you and your husband asked her what's wrong, and she says, Oh, I'm just really worried about my future, And in that moment, you pivot and you say, we really need to change the thinking and the dialogue around this. Tell us a little bit more about that, because I

thought that was really an important moment. So there was one day that and this was after we had accepted that she's trans and we had gotten her in um. I can't remember if she had already started medical transition or not, but she was definitely seeing the appropriate therapist and at least had an appointment with the appropriate doctor and things were moving along for her, and we found her moping on the couch and you know, asked her what was wrong, and she said, well, you know, I

don't know what my future is going to be. Like, I'm probably not going to get as good of a job as I could otherwise, you know, I might have a hard time meeting somebody. And so she just wasn't optimistic about her future. And we realized that the reason she was saying that was because these were fears that we were repeatedly conveying to her. Initially, we would just flat out say, you know, why would you want to do this? Your life is going to be so hard.

You're not gonna meet you know, you're not gonna meet people, You're not going to be able to get as good as a job. You know, it's going to be an uphillent battle. And then at a certain point we weren't always saying it in front of her, but there was so much negativity in our conversations. You know, it just hit me that she was reflecting back what we had told her and what we were sort of continuing to talk about and worry about in private. And it was

just after Danna Karome had gotten elected. Um, and she's a transgender woman in politics, and I think she's in Indiana now and now I forget, but I mean, really, in that instant, my husband and I decided that we were gonna stop being negative at home and that even if we did have these fears, we were not going to say them in front of her. And so we sat down right there and had a conversation with her, and we said, you are absolutely going to have a

good life. There's no reason for you not to. You're smart, you're caring, you have a family who can support you through this. You know, we have the financial ability to do whatever you need to do, because transition is a incredibly costly and financially prohibitive for many families, and so we said, you know, really, with your family and our support, there's no limits on what you can do. And we wouldn't tolerate our other two children saying, oh, I'm not

going to get as good of a job. So why were we talking in a way that, you know, made

her feel that way? And so we decided that from that moment on, we were just going to speak positively and really once we did that, and change in her was within a week a parent, and even the change in myself, like, once I started talking positively, you know, in that way and just thinking about how she could potentially be a trailblazer and make a huge difference in the world, I started to really change a lot as well.

So it was really pivotal for both her and for myself. Yeah, And I think that's another of the really universal pieces of the book is that I think as parents we have to be careful because we can all do that. We think by worrying our children we will spur them into greater action. You know, I'll worry you into getting good grades. But a lot of times it just causes fear.

And I think I look at like how much we talk as a society about how bad things are going to be for kids coming, you know, how bad the job market's going to be post this, how different I mean, all this stuff. And while it's good to face reality, it's not like we want to not face reality. I do think we start to reinforce these negative messages if we're not careful. And I think a lot of being a good parent is learning to manage our own emotions so that we can then parents are our children well.

And that's an area that I think we all can work in. Yeah. I have a son who's older, who's nineteen and in college, and you know, he'll say things to us like that about the economy, and he really you know, he's interested in philosophy and psychology, and he's like, yeah, but you know, doing those things, I mean, am I going to be able to pay my bills or live? You know, do this? And and we're just like, you need to pursue your passions right now. Is about learning

and pursuing your passions. And if you're really passionate about something, you will find a way to make it work and you know, be successful and have whatever level of lifestyle you know works for you. Yeah, it happens all the time trans not trans you know, and basically so many parenting scenarios. Yeah, one of the things in the book that is so powerful is the way that certainly the book in some ways is about your daughter's journey, but

it's much more about your own journey. And it is this journey from this denial and then into more of acceptance and then into support, you know, actually supporting and even in some ways starting to celebrate who she is. Right, there's this beautiful progression, and yet you're really good at showing all the way through that you are still struggling

internally with what this change means to you. And so I think, you know, it's beautiful the way you went from Okay, here's originally the way I was behaving towards her, and we changed that, and now here's the way I want to support her. I want to help her in

every way. But you talk about some moments, things that are big deals, like her starting estrogen, which she's just so excited about, and her name change, which she's so excited about, and so part of you is excited for her, and yet you're still wrestling internally with these challenges yourself. This is all very new, right, So I really started writing the book a few weeks before we had her name changed. So I was writing it as it was

very raw and fresh. I still have some internal struggle, but I am doing a lot better than I was at the end of the book. But part of the reason was, you know, I wanted to capture all the ups and downs and emotions at a parent that's dealing with this goes through and presented raw and honest and

real as it happens. And you know, when she came out, I couldn't find a book like like the one I wrote, and I felt like it was what I needed to read because when she came out, I was initially so devastated, really just devastated. And the books that were out there, you know, there was books written by trans people, which is everybody should read, you know, books written by trans people to get the trans experience. But as a parent,

I needed to read parent experiences. You know. I had a friend of mine whose husband passed away from cancer. You know, she said that when that was happening, she didn't want to read memoirs of people with cancer. She wanted to read memoirs of caregivers. You know, I didn't want to read Janet mos book, even though I'm sure

it's incredible. I wanted to read parent books, you know, parent experience, and the Parent Experience books were about kids who would come out early, and then it was also about parents who this had already happened for years and years. So it wasn't this like raw showing you just how hard you know it is, you know when it happens, and so you know, since this book has come out, I've had so many parents who have been newly hit with this or this is still pretty fresh for them.

In the last couple of years. Some of the emails I get just make you want to cry, saying I could have written this book. You know this is you know how hard it's been, and I wanted to show that you can go from devastation to acceptance, celebrating, thriving and another feedback from parents who are in a better

place and it has been a few years. I think there's sometimes a perception by outsiders, you know, when they see us celebrate our children, for example, by you know, putting a picture of our families on social media and saying, oh, you know this is now Avon, We're supporting you know, Eva.

Some people have this perception as if they don't know what you went through, and so they just think you're making these decisions about allowing your child, whether socially or medically or how away, transition, that you made these decisions lightly, because look at you. You're one big, happy, smiling family

with your trans kid in the middle. So a lot of parents were like, you know, thank you for showing people the behind the scenes of what we've gone through and that we haven't made these decisions, you know, lightly, And we're not just saying, but every kid on hormones and you know, we we struggle with this. Yeah. Yeah, it takes a certain amount of courage to sort of just expose yourself that way. The cliche is works and all right, here it all is, and here's how I

was emotionally. And there's lots of times in the book you're like, I'm not proud of having this thought, and yet I did. And I think that's so important, you know, because again, like you said, if all we see is sort of the end story, we miss what happen pens in there. And that brings me to the next topic I kind of wanted to talk about, because big part of your guy's journey. That was so important and it's

been really important to me in totally different ways. Was the power of finding people who had been through what you've been through, finding support groups, hearing your story from other people, and how powerful that can be. So tell us a little bit about your experiences with that. Yeah, So I think it was about six months after she came out. I finally ended up going to a support

group in l a area called Transforming Family. And I have to say that the first support group meeting I went to, which was two hours long, was maybe most difficult two hours in my life, or one of the hardest two hours, and yet probably the most eye opening and transformative two hours of my life, because you know, I walked in there thinking that I'm going to go in and I'm going to hear stories that are gonna actually confirm that she's not trans and that I don't

need to be here and that I can go on with my life. And I walked in and I heard story after story that was very similar to hers, and so realized that, you know, there was definitely a chance that she was actually trans, and that I needed to listen to her and start taking her to the appropriate people. You know, I ended up in a room of parents with teens and older and there were at least half the room their children had come out at puberty or later and the parents had been blindsided, just like I

had been. And so suddenly, you know, I didn't feel alone. And that support group, you know, we meet once a month, and my first two hours session I cried for nine of it. And within three to four sessions, I had changed so much, and I was going from being the person who needed all the support to being the one who was starting to support other parents. And now I'm on their board and I do intake calls for other families, and I have to say, it is so rewarding, you know.

Now I just go to the support groups as a mentor because I don't need nearly as much support as I did initially. But it is so rewarding for me to watch other families come in where I was and leave, you know, where I am, or really get to where I am. For most families, it's within two to three sessions that things start to change for them, and you know, within six months the change is drastic. Part of the problem is that I initially resisted going. I just you

know wasn't ready. So a lot of times, you know, you may suggest to parents when something like this happens to them and provide them the resources and the support groups, and sometimes people aren't ready to go. If I could figure out how to get people to go earlier, it would have made a huge difference for us. Yeah. And it's a really beautiful scene after your first meeting, because they had a support group for her, and she just was lit up by like being around her people and

just Mom, can we go again? When can we go? Can we come to every meeting? I just thought that was so beautiful. Yeah. Yes, we got separated and she went to a group for kids her age and I went to a parent group And as soon as we got reunited in the lobby, and I saw her face before she even saw me, I saw her face, and I just I knew that she had been transformed, you know, and something had happened for her, and that she had probably met her people and finally been in a group

of people where she felt at home. It's so beautiful throughout the book, as she is supported and as she is allowed to be who she is, she just starts to come alive. And that depression and and those challenges that you felt like had been with her all those years. I'm not trying to paint a Polly in a story, but that stuff drops away to a certain extent and you just just drab these moments where she's so happy. Yeah,

she's so much happier than she's ever been. And that really started to happen very soon after we started to support her. You would just see her smile bigger every day. You know, she'd always had difficulty sort of making friends, and you would see her making friends, reaching out to people, just doing things that were uncharacteristic, you know, for her before.

She had always had a hard time with hugs and physical affection before, and she's such a big hugger and so physically affectionate now, and so, you know, I have to believe that that had to be a certain amount of just not feeling at eased with her body, even though she didn't know that was you know, the issue or why she didn't like, you know, hugs. But once she started to get more comfortable in her body, Um,

the change in her was just incredible. If you look at pictures of her from you know, when she's eight or nine and she's adorable, but is kind of a sadness in her eyes. And if you look at pictures of her now, I mean she's always has a beaming smile. So yeah, we tend to think that coming out and making that transition and going through that is going to be so difficult. And in her case, it turns out that once she came out and got support, her life

got easier. It was the burden she was carrying before that that was the one that was so heavy. Yes, absolutely, and I have to say again, obviously, you know, we were very fortunate once we started things. For the most part, things went very smoothly with her. There's so many families that this is a lot more difficult for them, you know, just whether financially insurance problems. You need both parents, guardians

need to consent for all these scenarios. But in other families where there might be more hurdles, their path may not be as easy as ours were. Even in those families where they may face a lot more challenges than we did, still those kids do so much better and are so much happier just because there's steps being taken and they're being supported. Even if things aren't happening you know, at the pace that they want, or they're setbacks or

roadblocks or things like that. You wrote a piece, and it's certainly incorporated in the book because you're reflecting on her struggles and sort of battling her own body. Right, She's trying to go from having a body that is somewhat male and she's trying to transition into it being more of a female body. And it caused you to reflect sort of on your own battles with your body.

Sale more about that. Yeah, So that was a piece I wrote for Huffington Post, and it was basically, you know, I'm somebody who had spent really starting from when I went when I went through puberty, starting around eleven or twelve or so, I started having issues with my own body, just never being happy with my body, my curves. There's a lot of obesity on my mother's side, you know, and and kind of fighting my curves and trying to conform to what I consider this like thin, white ideal

body of an American. And throughout my teen years I had sort of borderline what you could consider being disorder, you know type behavior, a lot of like restrictive, you know, not eating than purging, you know, binging, you know, all all that kind of stuff, and then spent my twenties and thirties on every diet you can possibly imagine, and so, you know, I'm not overweight at all. I've never actually

been overweight. This is what's sad. So many women who are fighting their body, and I've gone on every diet, have never been overweight, you know. I just do happen to have a little bit of curves, you know. And once she came out, I just realized how ridiculous it was that I had thought this hour glass body for thirty years and wasted so much energy fighting an hour glass body when I love being a woman and having an hour glass body and and wide hips is what

defines being a woman. And that's one of the things she actually, you know, thinks about, is she likes when there's a picture and her thighs actually look wider in the picture, because then that's what we, you know, associate with a female's body. And so I just had this realization and how ridiculous my battle with my body was,

and and I literally just stopped. I mean, there was a day where I was trying on a dress in a dressing room and the dress cling didn't didn't feel right, and for the first time, I just took the dress off and I wasn't mad at my body or frustrated, and I just decided, Okay, this dress not for me, fine, you know, and moved on. I don't know why. I definitely now embraced my body as as as it is and appreciate the body that I was given and realized how much easier my life is because I'm in a

body that matches my gender identity. Right. Yeah, It's amazing how much we do battle our bodies when, like you said, they sort of match our gender identity, they're fine, and yet we get so caught up in this image driven

idea and how much suffering it causes us. Yes, I'm going to read a little something you wrote because I want to also reflect upon it and a little context for for what you've written here, which is you're wrestling with the fact that Ava is now your daughter and not your son, and you've had these ideas of the way your family was. I have two boys and a girl, and this first girl was born here, and you know you've got these these stories, right, you said I'd spend

a lifetime creating different narratives and stories like this. Now all the stories that I'd concocted in my head were being questioned, But did any of it matter? Stories are made up, They can be rewritten. The ending could be happier sad, depending on the spin I choose to put

on it. I could rewrite these stories, or I could stop giving them so much power, I think for me, you know, I've always said of my identity as motherhood, even that you know, I'm all these other things obviously, pediatrician, wife, daughter, run, our colleague, you you name it. But I've always felt like motherhood has made up of my identity and who I am, and still feel that way. And I also think so much of my identity was wrapped up in

being a mother of two sons and a girl. You know, I had really really always wanted daughters, and when my first two were born boys, or first who were born with you know, testicles and penis, I was so disappointed. Um. Obviously, once they were born, you love them and you're ecstatic about it. But during my pregnancies, you know, I was I was disappointed to find out that I was having boys.

And then my third one was my daughter, Shada, and I had sort of all these stories that I concocted in my head about her, and parallels between sort of my three kids and my aunt's three kids. And you know, it's just you kind of make up all these stories and narratives for yourself. And there was this time where it's like, Okay, am I a mother of two boys and a girl? Am I the mother of a boy, a trans girl and a girl? Am I a mother of a boy and two girls? Does any of that matter?

When do I make these shifts in my head? There was an in between period where if I saw somebody knew that I had never met, and they asked me how many kids I had, and I'd say three kids, and they'd say, what do you have? I didn't know how to answer, and you know, she at that time, she wasn't out, So I would say I have two boys and a girl. But it was a struggle and

it felt like a lie. And and for a lot of people, you know, there is this in between period where they're out at home or to certain people and not out to others. And and for us, that period, this sort of in between only partially out period was a year for a lot of families that time is much longer, and it's really difficult for everyone, and obviously the most difficult for that person who themselves as a trance, but even as her mother, was incredibly difficult for me. Yeah.

What I loved about that is the universality of it is that we're all making up stories all the time about our identity, about what things mean, about what's going to happen, and they are just that, they are just stories. You know, you had lots of stories in your head about how your daughter was going to be bullied at school. Yes, yes, And at least at the time of the book, none of those stories have been true. I hope they're still

not true. They're still not true. I mean, there's been the occasional comments here and there, but as far as I know, and she tells me a lot, there hasn't been any incidents of what I would call true, you know, bullying type thing. There. There's been a few comments here

and there. I had a lot of stories in my head about you know, I grew up as a brown kid in a predominantly white neighborhood it and and I had been bullied in fifth grade, so I had a lot of worries and fears, you know, about raising somebody who was now going to be the ultimate outsider. You know, I had been an outsider myself, and the last thing I wanted was for my child to be the ultimate outsider.

And and you know, trans in the US at this time is really getting targeted more than anyone else, almost, you know, if not more than anyone else. And so I had to think about the stories that I was hanging onto from my own childhood and experience, and how I was projecting those stories onto her, and how I was not only going to stop projecting those stories onto her, but those stories still had a lot of power and

hold over me. And so that was part of my evolution, is finally letting go of my own insecurities and my own need to prove my worth as a Brown woman in America, as a Iranian Muslim immigrant. I mean, there's a lot that goes with that, and I had to really let go of all of that for myself as well. And you know, if you're seeing a teenager be this strong and sure and willing to put herself out there, um, you can't help but re evaluate your own life and

what fears and insecurities you've been holding onto. I was stunned throughout the book by her bravery, Yeah, by just how she was able to say here is who I am boom and just put it out there. And and she's putting out a pretty, like you said, a pretty hard thing to put out there. And she just seems so incredibly courageous. She really is incredibly courageous. You know, once she figured this out, she was sure, and she knew that there was no way she could go back

to living as a boy and being happy. I mean, I think she knew. She knew that one it all clicked in and she figured it out, she knew there was no way to go back, in no way to you know, live a lie sort of. You know, there's a part where she and I have a conversation about, well, are you sure you're a trans girl? Maybe you can just be non binary and just fun and just you know,

you don't have to say you're a girl. You could just be who you are and where what you want and don't take medication and just be a weird, quirky whatever, you know, non binary person. You know, you know, somehow thinking that if I could convince her to just be non binary and not change her name and not you know, do medical transition that it would be you know, easier, and and she says, but that would be omitting the fact that I'm a girl and emission is a lie.

And it was just like, wow, you know, she can't be this other person that I want her to be. She just has to be who she is. Yeah, when she comes out, she's very certain. And you talk about a process in the book that I've never heard this term before, but coming in, which is the process that that people go through as they're sorting it out themselves and they're figuring it out and they're researching and their learning, so that when they come out they are pretty far

down a journey in their mind. And yet everybody else is like whoa, what is going on? And and they've had a lot of time to process. And that was certainly in your case. She was ready. She's like I'm ready to go, and you guys are like, WHOA, pump the brakes. You know. Yes, when you talk to other parents of you know, trans teens and young adults, you'll

you'll hear that story a lot. And Yeah, that process of sort of coming in and gathering information for themselves and and being sure before they decide to take the risk of of of coming out. Is something that one of the therapists at the support group told me about and something that I have now seen over and over and stories of other parents. Well, thank you so much. We are at the end of our time. I would

love to talk for another hour with you. You're just so inspiring in the way that you owned up to sort of how you wanted to change and the mistakes that you felt you were making. And then the way that you guys step into support for her is so beautiful. You know, we hear so many horror stories of the way parents don't support children, and so it's just so nice to hear one of the way parents really do step in in support and how beautiful that can be.

So thank you, thank you, And I really think you know, this is a hard thing to do alone, and so if when this happens to you, you feel alone, and so yeah, if other parents can join support groups and find other parents going through the same thing so that they don't feel alone. I tell every parent who walks into the support group, no matter what state they walk into it, I say, the fact that you came here, I know you're gonna end up you know where I am,

if not somewhere better. Yeah. I've experienced the power of support groups in a number of different ways, and and it really is so powerful just to be able to, like you said, I'm not alone. Yeah, So thank you so much. Sure, thank you. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You Feed podcast. When you join our membership community. With this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits. It's our way of saying

thank you for your support. Now. We are so grateful for the members of our community. We wouldn't be able to do what we do without their support, and we don't take a single dollar for granted. To learn more, make a donation at any level and become a member of the One you Feed community. Go to when you feed dot net slash. Join The One You Feed podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show.