Lama Surya Das

We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their

good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is Lama Siria Doas, one of the foremost Western Buddhist meditation teachers and scholars, one of the main interpreters of Tibetan Buddhism in the West, and a leading spokesperson for the emerging American Buddhism. The Dalai Lama affectionately calls him the

Western Lama. Syria Das has been featured in numerous publications and major media, including ABC, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, The Washington Post, and even one segment of the ABC sitcom Dharma and Greg titled Leonard's Return, which was based on his life. Syria has appeared on Politically Correct with Bill Maher and twice on the Cold Bear Rapport. Syria is the author of thirteen books and his latest is called Make Me One with Everything. Buddhist meditation is to awaken from the

illusion of separation. Hey, everybody, before we get started, just a couple of quick announcements. The first, and this is exciting news, is that on May here in Columbus, Ohio, we will be having the first ever one You Feed Party get together shindig, call it what you will, at the Roosevelt Coffee House. It'll be open to the first fifteen people who sign up at one you Feed dot

event Bright dot com. Event. Bright is spelled e V E N T b R I t E. So when you feed dot event bright dot com, sign up for the one you Feed Party on May twenty at the Roosevelt Coffee House. The second thing that I wanted to say is that on our website now at when you feed dot net, you can click and leave us a voice message. Over to the right, there'll be a little box. Click on it and you can record anything you want.

Say hello, give us some feedback, tell us what you like, what you don't like, and uh, suggest a topic for a mini episode if you want. And the final thing is I've had a couple of people graduate out of the one on one coaching program. It's been going great. If you are interested, I've got a couple of spots that have reopened. You can send an email to Eric at one you feed dot net. Thanks and enjoy the show. Hi, sir, you're welcome to the show. Thank you, Eric, nice to

be here. I am very excited to have you on Your book, Awakening the Buddha Within was one of the early books I read on Buddhism. It's been a while now, probably shortly after it came out, and it was it was one of the books that really set me on a path of becoming very interested in Buddhism and getting more serious about meditation. So I thank you for that night. I've read your new book and really enjoy it. Also,

thank you. I hope we all can awaken the bood in this within and see the light of the divine and everybody in each other and everything. So our podcast is all the one you feed. And it's based on the parable of two wolves, where there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson and he says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,

which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second. He looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Well. I like that parable. Um,

obviously I want the spiritual path and spiritual teacher. So I think we have some agency or some choice, and choice is very important in life as his motivation and intention. So it's very important, as in the parable, whether we feed he good, you know, the higher side or the lower side of our nature, let's say our animalistic nature or our more higher divine the spiritual side of our nature. So that's very important, and the parable makes it clear

that it's a choice. And I think the grand apparently wisdom asked to have from ancient times is very important for us today and are increasingly fast placed, fast paced. Sorry, in a historical times, people seem to be out of touch with the timeless wisdom traditions that are so much pressing forward to what's new and the nano second and so on. So I'm all in favor of this kind of timeless yet timely wisdom. I think it's very good

for today, at tomorrow, and for a better future. So your new book is called Make Me One with Everything, Buddhist Meditations to Awaken from the Illusion of Separation, and in it you talk about a concept called inter meditation, and could you talk about what intermeditation is and maybe how that compares to what a lot of us have thought of as regular meditation for lack of a better word. Well, my new book is all about what I've coined intermeditation

or co meditation. Taking off on the Sandmaster chick nag Hans turned into being about seeing through the illusion of separateness and recognizing our interconnectedness, our inter ovenness, our interdependence, and our inter beeing. And there's ben't too much about self growth and turning inward and looking inward in the meditation field to balance our streets extra version and materialism. But I think today it's very important to recognize that none of us can do it alone. It takes the

village same boat. We rise at full think, let's swim together. And so I've been teaching more and more about this kind of intermeditation or become mean what permeable, not just trying to meditate or pray or do you know, can get away from it all? That's fine the vaccasion to sign, but there the other fifty weeks of the year to consider.

So for that being with things, being with what hyphen rathern against it, trying to get away from it all, pushing it away, No into meditation or commentitation, waiting being with things, breathing out and breathing in with things. Based on the Tibetan writing, the breath meditation called tongue lent or low jung, where we dissolve the separation between self and other, between out or inner, writing, the breath, emerging with nature, emerging with loved ones, eventually seeing less difference

between us and them and even our enemies. So this is very much being with rather than against it, and emerging into and so forth. And I'm very excited about this because I think in today's world, the US and them problem is just so paramount and and the and extreme views and terrorism and so on, and we really need to find a way to go beyond us in them. Dualism and just meditating getting away from the while of going in weard or seeking our own happiness is just

not enough. I think we need to have a collective awakening and shared spirituality, spirituality for a a couple of collective spirituality and so on. That's what I'm working on now in the face my teachings in life. So, what is an example of an intermeditation that we could we could do? Can you give some examples of what what this practice? And from reading the book, there's a bunch of different ones. But could you pick a maybe a practice that we

could give the listeners that is an example of intermeditation. Sure, I'd be glad to um, for example, rather than just closing our eyes and trying to be quiet and stop thinking or or get away through all, maybe we could open our eyes in our ears and just look at another, maybe eye gazing with a loved one or a pet and breathing together and convergitating and mergitating that fund with

words and dissolving together. Just being together and not trying to get anything out of it for ourselves could be a great co meditation of inter meditations, and it has its basis in the count of principles of spirituality for

couples and finding a portals because oneness. How we can do this by writing the breath, breathing out, breathing in together as well as by eye gazing and becoming more permeable, so of sending up, letting down our defenses seen through acceptiveness and eventually recognizing that we all want to need more or less the same. So this facing each other, standing or sitting however we want to do it. It's a great way of intermeditating or com meditating and being

together in a sacred manner and integrating. We would be part of the of life, not that we have to be a lot more silence or get away from the lolling and meditation little more country or treat to do it. Another way to do it is not just with people with pets. What was nature like I like to do with water? Meditating with water, commeditating with the oceans or waterfalls or waves and listening to it, just dissolving with the sound or letting the sounds of the wind or

the waves wash every single way. So it's kind of a very practical or doable nature mysticism, just washing every single way. And this is an example of com meditation or into meditation which nature. And you can pick which natural element works best for you for me to water, but for someone might be fire like spon fire gazing, or it could be earths like looking in a mountain or the Grand Canyon or just you know, the garden. Whatever natural element can help transport one beyond ho it self.

So the notion is being with rather than against things. As I said, of course, this is a very hard opening thing because when real wise others want to need the same as we do to them and their loved ones and their land in their place, then we have a chance to more naturally treat others as we would ourselves be treated and naturally follow the Golden rule. And you say that inner meditation is the antithesis of naval gazing and narcissism, or the religion as escape, yoga as commodity,

spirituality as a vacation. Yes, being with things rather than running away from them. We're trying to go later and just get away from goalification, which is fine, but that doesn't go far enough to have a spiritual life. Spiritual life is about every step on the path of life every day. So that's where the webber really means to road, not just on Saturday and synagogue Sunday in church a

Monday Moscow meditation center. So I think that it's fine to have a yoga session or meditation session let's say the morning or you know, or weekend we get away, but there's six and other days of the week to consider. Then for this, I think being more open and befriending things and co meditating with them, we're into being with them is the way that we need today for our collective awakening. And that's just for naval gazing, for self

growth and self being more self conscious. In our narcissistic society, we don't need more of that self awareness is a whole different thing about and self consciousness or narcissism and method fine line or discernment to learn how to make right. As I was as I was reading it, I was thinking of, um, you know, at least meditation, as I've been taught, a lot of it is paying attention to what's happening inside me, my mind, my breath, my body.

And it really sounds like a lot of what you're describing as pain raising that level of awareness to things that are around me and outside of me. Is that a fair description us? Of course, any meditation or contemplative practice involves awareness, the cultivation of awareness, of potension, and the focus of the presence of mind, of of mindfulness or other mindlessness. As they say today, it's very popular mindfulness as a mind training to what kinds of benefits.

So that begins, let's say, with yourself, will, with your breath, with your physical sensations here and now, But it needs to extend also to whoever you're with and whatever you're with as well, unless you're a lifeline contemplative or hermit who just meditates or prey the loan all the time, which I would speculate most of us are not going

to be, nor do we need to be so. For most of us, relational meditation or co meditation is really the way to go and to expand and deepen our contemplative experience in portals to one is everywhere with everyone and everything, Like in the In the book of Course, I give some classical co meditations and its meditations like writing the breast, sky gazing, nature, dissolving and other things, listening to music one another at a time and so on,

but also some more let's say creative original takes on it, like momitation considering like maybe you come home from work at night, after the kiddies are asleep, can you go in their bedroom and you take a look at them. You just stand there and sit there and let it all happen. No need to meditate or pray. This is a fully angels are very heart opens. You just watched the little breast rising and falling, and just breathe with them and view them. Let all the preoccupations and stress

as the day wash away. That's a marvelous natural meditation. It's not hard, you know, there's no struggle to concentrate as people usually struggle with meditation. They say oh, I can't give it to my thinking. Well, in that kind of natural situation, the heart opening feelings transport you beyond your habitual self and thinking. I guarantee it. Try to

call that momitation. Another way to do it is meditating with the Dalai Lama or whoever your super spiritual superhero or ideal is or God, Buddha, Jesus as an archetype in person or in the abstract, and letting them, as it were, do it for your breathing with them, looking at them in person or a picture or visualized the image, the icon, the architect, holding it in your mind, breathing, beating with them in and out, and letting everything else go,

everything dissolved, and experience a great peace and nivonic peace and harmons beyond self and other, beyond effort and effortlessness, beyond inside and outside, beyond separation or even union, and just be in the capital B. You have some short quotes in the book that I think are really interesting that I'd like to maybe read you one and ask for a couple of them and ask you to expound on them a little bit. The one I want to start with you say, I think you have to love

first and see second. Yes, it's interesting that you asked me about that, because the publisher interviewed me for a webcast and was one of the two or three she picked out. Also, And I am so intent upon moving

this discussion from the head to the heart. Mindfulness is signed on our education system, and our mentality is already so damn mental in our scientistic postmodern reality, and I myself, being a New York intellectual and mode of mind, I am so moved to make the journey from head to heart and even deeper through the body and the earth

and the whole. That's why the inscription in the beginning of the book is from a contract or non dualistic oneness scripture of Tibet contract text that says, the whole world is my body, all beings, my heart mind. So consciousness or awareness ascensions is pre eminent in being, but the body is still part of it by the end, so insuptionable, just like in mind body medicine, which is coming on throwing today. And I think it's very important.

So making the journey from the head to the heart, so opening the heart first and then awakening and illumining the mind. We're already over educated. We know so much that we understand so little less the problem. We need more wisdom and discertain and not just intellectual knowledge. So the wisdom's heart is very, very important. So that's what I'm awesome about there, Not just being more mindful and thinking of my fullness, com meditation of the mental discipline.

It's all sounds like something eyebrows up. What about the rest of our body? Not to mention the collectives, the family, the group, all the animals and beings and nature itself, and is doing some of the intermeditation practices the way to make that journey from the head to the heart.

I believe that impimeditation and commentation takes us beyond us in them and body and mind and all of these separations, and helps us see deeper into the inextricable oneness or the the the spectrum of the art that completes the whole, just like you and me together makes the we and so forth. So each of us is very important, but all of us together probably more important to the long run. Not to mention our earth, the species and the survival of all of us. So again that's too from eye

to we right, you safe? And I love this quote because it's something that we talk about on this show a lot. But it's fools seek from afar, the wise find truth beneath their feet. Yes, so of course everything I say is going to be about it's right here and now, and not to postpone it. I think you're going to do this when you retire or next summer or on the weekend, because it's now where never as always, And if we don't do it now, you know it never happens. If I'm not here now, we won't be there.

Then we're still going to be postponing and putting it off, because that's a habit, that's the nature of karma and condition habit felt. The path is right beneath our feet. Eleven. Christian tradition says, although it there's no is, emphasize heaven on earth, Heaven is right here, not just later after we die. And Buddhism, another non dual tradition, certainly emphasized that nirvana right here within some sort with the light right here within the shadows, not elsewhere, not just after

we die, not in some whole foreign holy land. It can fantasize and ideal lines about but here and now it's God ain't here, She's nowhere, and she's here, she's everywhere. That's money what you're thinking. So I'm I'm encouraging backyard Buddhism or universal Dharma, spirituality lodge, occupying the spirit, not just leaving it to the one percent to do that because Alli llamas or Hylama story desk of that matter. But occupied the spirit ourselves and make a better world

for ourselves and all loved ones. And look what's going on in the world. What's the alternative when we need each other? Even the Dalai Lama, who's a monk and one might think very minos or solitary, says we need each other to become enlightened. He doesn't say everybody can do it themselves. We need each other to become enlightened. That's a quote of Mahyana Buddhism from the Dalai Lama,

from the Universal Vehicle. Think about collective vetterment, the greater good, biggest number, not just me being happy or peaceful temporarily. You talk about the middle Way in the book a couple of different times, and I'm interested in sharing a little bit more about what the middle Way means to you. It's a it's a concept that I have found very useful in my life, and and different people interpret it

slightly differently. I'd be interested in hearing your take on that. Well, Um, it depends what you're thinking about, Like as a Buddhist, I think about Buddha never cult is teaching Buddhism. He called it the middle way beyond extremes such as materialism, when realism, or all or nothing, or sterity on one hand,

or indulgence. So that was his middle way, that violence, moderation. Um. Another way of looking at it, I think is it's a real touchstone for us today to not given to excess, you know, or all or nothing always never mentality or way of thinking very black and white, which is so brittle, so dogmatic. The middle way includes so many things just that I think it helps us avoid the ditches. The middle way has many lanes on the Great Highway of life, but it helps avoid the ditches on either side. I

think that's the point. So for me, it's a cut stone for not being too extreme, not arguing with my mate, you know, with words like always they never, not seeing others there's a little good, bad or all good, even over idealizing people is also leads you to all kinds of trouble as we see in the spiritual world and

celebrities and so on. So I think the middle way is really Buddha's greatest teaching in a way I always I always hear myself saying that, although it's not something my teachers ever said, Um, since my teacher's always stress awaysdom and compassion and generosity and that kind of stuff. But I think this, this sense of balance or appropriateness in the middle way, is really a Buddha's greatest teaching and maybe contribution. What would be in your own life?

What is the lesson that has taken you the longest to learn? Perhaps what I just talked about, the middle way? How to really you know, live live and and live and die and and and um the center in the middle. You know, I have to live in the center as well and not vie off. Besides, as I said, even too much of a good thing could be a problem, like over idealizing people or things that you can lead to disappointment as well as being hopefully kept cynical. Yeah,

that one is uh. I would say that's probably right up there with mine, is finding that middle way through things without being too far up to one extreme or the other. So that's been when perhaps one of my greatest challenges. Um. But I could mention something else if I find this interesting, and I love to share this with people, and I have a lot of the students and I you know, have they asked a Lawma Colum and blogs online and things like that. People alreay asking

me this kind of thing. So I also like to say that it's very challenging to realize that things that you hear in life are really a myth, like all you need is love, which I grew up with, you know, with the Beatles and the sixties and all that, actually love is not enough. Sometimes other things interfew with being together or being harmonious, like people die or change your sexual orientation or stop loving you. You know, there are other factors that have to come together. And there are

many myths that one could mention. That's a very challenging for me to accept that so many of the so much accepted knowledge, always in the past down is really very very questionable for example, about you know, reality or good and bad or us in them or and it's easier to pick on outer things like American superiority or white superiority. It's easy to see through those things, but we still may act from that. And if you go travel around the world, you see Americans acting like that

everywhere else, I mean many cases. And it's very hard to root prejudice out of our hearts and minds. So that that's been very challenging also for me to know this how strong conditioning is and can be to work on that. So many times over the last couple of weeks, I've I've seemed to be getting the message about learning

to unknown, not thinking that. We get pretty set in thinking, well, I know this to be true, and I know that to be true, and and for whatever reason, I keep I keep running across constant reminders to go back to being a beginner, and a lot of these things that I might think I know the answer to. Well, like I've said before, we know so much, what we really understand so little, and the mind and intellectual knowledge also

has its limits. Thus the Zen Buddhist teaching about not knowing and living with mystery and not having fixed opinions. In interview as an master involved with China saying, do not seek to find the final truth. Nearly cease to cherish opinions. I think that's awesome statement of timeless wisdom. And if we if we believe as a science, which is kind of the religion of today, we noticed that every few years or decades the science changes a lot

of fixed truths and its and its beliefs. So that's also very instructive I think to also take the said, you know, top con mentor or scientific facts and any generation with a grain of salt. I'm not just saying not here to say science, we modern medicine isn't better than superstition in which craft that we had, you know, thousands of years ago. It is better, but it's still it's a very malleable or evolving field of knowledge as well.

So I've concluded in my graying years that my head is not really the best neighborhood for me to live in.

And again making the journey from the head to the heart and prioritizing or being more attentive to help the heart path the heart opening relationships and so on, like with children with pets, quality time rather than quantity and so forth, and to my true vocation enjoy path and not just the big should that I should on my head with sometimes oh I should do this or that, get a little old to that, but the joy path

never gets old. We often teach what we need to learn is that kind of been at one of your challenges. Is that moving from the brain and the overthinking into more of the heart path. Um, I guess yes, we teacher. We need to learn so, you know, because if you're a teacher, you find out that you may think you're teaching one thing, you may be teaching other things too. So yes, definitely about the hard path, but I also don't want to set the hard is it opposed to

a separate from the head. I'm definitely an educator and a thinker, and I'm awful questioning and judgment and discernment and discriminating awareness, not just becoming simple minded in the name of simplicity, you know, simplifying your life. That's becoming a simpleton. But life can be quite simple when one

is less complicated, that's for sure. So sometimes I think I say I hate myself saying, oh, my dog, walking my dog in the morning is the best time of my day, and people give me a queer look like, oh, that's said, but it's not. I'm sorry. That's how it is What can I say? That's how it is. It feels that way to me. What do I know? I think my dogs have done more to help me make that, make that journey from the head to the heart than

anything else that I've probably come across. Yeah, and now that I have grand nephews and nieces and step grandside of it, Couber, you know, I'm spending more concerting on the form plane with them. Life is good. It doesn't have to have some other grand agenda. And it's a mystery. It's a miracle and a mystery. I love it. Last name time. If you take ourselves too seriously, right, My girlfriend in the seventies used to call me serious Toss. Much younger now and less serious now. I'm more like

the Jolly Lama. In fact, I suggested that Ben and Jerry asked me the name to my ice creams for him, so I named one the Jolly Lama and another one It's the Butter World. But they didn't make the taste testing, unfortunately. Did you get to pick the flavors to are just the names? Yeah, we worked on it, but the Jolly Lama had some kind of red offside berry and yellow, something of rather orange kind of like tibet and Buddhist colors. But um, we had fun with that. It's fun. It's

fun to collaborate with people. I love my friends, I mean gifted with the treasure of friends. Well, sir Ya, thank you so much for taking the time to join us on the show. I've really enjoyed talking with you. And they'll definitely be links on the on the show notes for how everybody can find your book, find your

website and all of those things. Is there anything you want to add is as we wrap up, No, but I want to say thank you for what you're doing, and also for picking out some of the short, pissy words of wisdom or Buddha bites by one liners from the end of the book, where I have a list of them, and I think those are things that it's worth writing on a yellow sticky or an index card and thinking about maybe one a week or one a day, like things and not what they seem to be, nor

are they otherwise. And a few of the one liners like letting go means letting come and go letting be I have some good one line is listening to the end of the book, in the section called Buddha bites. So it's a com meditation practice I called meditating with words of wisdom. Of course, you can make up your own or you can find your own in the words of wisdom of Ecclesiastes or whoever you like in the

Great Enlightenment literature of the world. Yeah, there was one other you had in there that we didn't have time to talk about. But it was if you're not here now, you won't be there then, which I think is awesome. Exactly well, and guarantee that. And that's the whole message of this mindfulness and new nouness movement to free us some pist in present and future conditioning and live more and savor than now. Who knows how long we're gonna live. Well,

what's going to come next? But there's been now the Holy now, this the President, the gift something to be great for every day that we wake up. There's a gift in the miracles. Up. Let's enjoy it together and treasure and treasure and protect life and not squand to it. Thank you, Yeah, thank you, take care o you alright, goodbye, goodbye. You can learn more about Lama Suryadas and this podcast at one you feed dot net slash Syria. That's s u R y A