Johann Berlin on Living a Fulfilling Life

We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Johann Berlin, CEO of the Tlex Institute North America.

He creates resilience in business by strengthening the connection between individuals, teams, and organizations to achieve a greater purpose. Johan's work has been mentioned in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and Washington Post. He has spoken at Ted X London, Stanford Center for Compassion, the Harvard Executive NBA Alumni Summit, Wharton School of Business, and the Yale School of Management.

This episode of The One You Feed is sponsored by health i q. Health i q as an insurance company that uses science combined with data to secure lower rates on life insurance for health conscious people like runners, cyclist, strength trainers, vegans and more. To see if you qualify, get your free quote today at health thi q dot com slash wolf. You can also mention the promo code wolf when you talk to a health i q agent. That's health i q dot com slash wolf. And here's

the episode with Johan Brulynn. Hi, Johan, welcome to the show. Great to be on, Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm very excited to have you on. Let's start like we normally do with the parable where there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. What is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,

which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Sure, the parable strikes for

me in a number of ways. But I really lived by this principle and and believe that what you put your attention on growth, And I found that on a very interpersonal level, where I choose to put my attention is what my reality is. But I also think it's very interesting in that what we're learning about bio feedback and neural plasticity, and so I think these these two

things converge for me and it's very beautiful. But actually prepared a story that I think is um up to this to this, So if it would be okay if I just shared that and then lead from there, absolutely great. So there was a billionaire and uh, he found out that a very wise sage was coming through town, and he asked, can I speak with this sage to one of the people organizing and they said, yeah, we'll see, And they came back and they said, yeah, you can come,

but you can only ask one question. So he's thinking all night, what what should I ask? You know? Should I ask how to gain more wealth? Should I ask? Um, you know the secret to enlightenment? And he decides on a very practical question. He was a person of principles who build habits, and so he decides to ask, if I could cultivate one quality with the time I have left in this life, if I could focus on one thing,

what would it be? And so he goes to the stage and he asked this question, and the stage pauses and uh. He looks at him and he says, discernment. And the man's a little taken aback. He's not used to somebody. He's a you know, very powerful person, Like, what do you mean? I need to be more discerning? And um, So he can't but help ask a second question, which is, what what do you mean discernment? Why? Why?

Discernment of all things? And the sage looks at him and smiles and he says, discerning that which is important from that which isn't is the most important quality you can develop in life. And so I feel this story is very beautiful. Uh, And it goes to to to the parable as well, which is, um, we can really choose where we tend to land. I mean, we can't control the city suations around us, but we can choose

what we feed ourselves. And so for me, I've been asking myself this question what is important in life and in our work? Also I've been asking what is important and meaningful work I'm running the Leadership Institute. And the answer that is coming up for me right now and has been consistently is then love is the most important thing. And it takes people back a little bit, especially in a fortune one fortune kind of setting. Anyway, I would be curious to hear hear your thought, Uh, what is

the most important to you? If you have to discern something that's important, that's a great question. It's very difficult to to get it down to one word. And so I've thought about this actually recently because there was something I was doing that was sort of this idea of getting down to a fundamental value, and I I sort of oscillated between freedom, not just freedom like from oppression externally, but internal freedom, you know, freedom from the burden of self,

freedom from being shackled to my thoughts. I think Also, presence was another one, you know, being present to myself to the people around me, and then love was was the other. So I'm cheating with three. Yeah, I love it though. I love this thing of agency and freedom and uh so I just wanted to share though in a in a corporate context, how love could apply because a lot of people say, like Tina Turner, you know, what's love got to do with it? Like, what's it

got to do with you know, transformation? Uh? And and and work And it's an incredible thing. You know, we spend most of our life at work. Uh for most of us, Uh, most of people probably listening to this podcast.

If you think about you spend the majority of your your days for sure, now if you're working, uh there and uh, it seems crazy to me that actually you wouldn't worry about the affective side or or this has been important, but I'm just to maybe demystifying it and on a more practicical note, what is a lack of

love but disengagement not loving what you do? Or what is the huge disorders and lack of care for mental health and companies but maybe a lack of caring for the affective side of the people who work in those institutions maybe too much prioritization on money or something else, right, So it's actually to me, it's really at the heart of all of it. And when you see people who love what they're doing, it seems to me, you love doing this show very beautiful things come out of it.

It becomes an expression, you know. Yeah. So for me, I've just been thinking a lot about this, uh, this, this what is important and what is not important? And where will I choose to put my energy in life? And what would I want to help other people with. So I've got a question for you, sure, which would be this idea of loving what you do? And I think this is a question that a lot of people wrestle with because not everybody loves what they do right.

A lot of people are like I and even know what I would do if I could do what I loved right, and and or the thing I love doesn't make enough for you know, me to make a living, so I'm doing something else. How do I be engaged in and make the best out of that situation and bring love to that that thing that I'm struggling with being really interested in. So, first of all, fantastic question, and I'll take my best shot at it, but I

think it's more than an answer. I would just say to everybody listening, what you've just asked is a beautiful wonder. And I was the difference between a question and a wonder for me is that a question needs an answer right away, and a wonder is something that can be new again and again when you reflect on it. And this thing of what is my purpose in life, it's kind of like the ultimate wonder or what is uh, what is it that gives me freedom or agency or

lights me up? Um? And it could change, right, it could be different. But I'll give you three categories on a more practical level that I think are really important. So the first one is moving from desire and finding

things that bring you contentment. Because the thing with if you if you jump into action and you're looking for fulfillment and desires and we all have them, uh, its desires are fleeting, they're constantly changing, and we get one thing and then our mind races onto the next like a carousel, right, and we overt discomfort whenever we have it,

and we're chasing desire. So I think there's a big difference whenever you set an intention around something you want to do, or you wonder about something you want to do, of having this discernment of is this just a desire and it's just going to lead to more desires and more more desires after that, and the kind of a never ending change, which is quite honestly how you see most people live their life. If we think about it, when we're a kid, when we're sixteen, what do we want?

We wanna driver's license, we want freedom? Right, then we have curfew and we have to be home, and then we think, man, I just want my freedom, or I want to go to college or whatever, and then we're so then we're eighteen. Where a college? It's cool at first, and then you know what three years, four years into that,

you're tired of top roman. What do you want? You want to yeah, some ego like a place in life, right, and then we've got a job, and you know, our first job for most of us, it wasn't that awesome. After a while, you usually at the bottom of the totem pole, making less than you would. You know, then you need and so then you then what do you want? A promotion? You know, some people want a family and they even have kids, and then you know, what do

they want? When you talk to like new parts, it's beautiful, but man, I just want a minute to myself. And then you just work your way all the way down the chain, right, And then kids leave the house, and what you're feeling this thing of man, my kids are leaving the nest and it's uh, it's you know, it's the biggest pain for a parent in some ways. And if you talk to old people, they're just looking back

and they're saying, remember those good old days. And so this thing of chasing from one thing to the next, it's very fleeting. So the first thing I would say is don't look for meaning in desires and instead find things that bring you contentment, Find spaces in yourself that bring you stillness where it's enough, where this moment is enough. Whatever I'm doing, whether I like it, whether I don't

like it, I feel grateful for this moment. And then something very big happens, something very beautiful can done in any situation or any moment. And a lot of freedom to and expandedness. So the second thing I would say is it's not only what you do, but a lot of times it's that you have meaningful relationships when you do it. So for sure, we can all control our jobs.

But I think the research on this is I think one of the longest longitudinal studies on happiness and a purposeful life out of our showing that the number one indicator was meaningful relationships. And um, what's really crazy about this is we live in this digital age, but actually our mutual good friend Amasepola, she talks about this in her ted talk and and and every book. We have more social isolation today than we did twenty years ago in the United States. More people feel that they don't

have somebody they could con find a serious problem. And it wasn't even that great twenty years ago. So this illusion where we get the dopamine from these iPhone hits and all this stuff, and we're getting these rewards, they're kind of like false positives. So that would be the second thing is put value on invest in cultivating meaningful relationships and this will probably be one of the best things you could ever do if you want to live a happy life. And then the third thing I would

say is do service. Um and and so we can make this in a macro context, but also in a micro context. If I think of like a job as just the sum of its importance or its income or or whatever um, then maybe it's bringing me reward or and fulfillment, and maybe it's not. But if I think of whatever I put my life force into as an expression of something beautiful, and I treat even the most mundane things with an honor, with the reference, there's this

beautiful I love this text. It's potentially Yoga sutras, and it talks about like the value of honor, just honoring something at uplifted. You know, it makes even the most mundane very special, if you know anyway. So those would be the three things, and I think I think science supports all three of those in that sense. But anecdotally in my own life and working with people, I've seen that as well. And now back to the interview. I like the idea of sort of what you said at

the end about the honor piece. I think that so many of us are looking for the things that we do in life to give us meaning instead of the spirit that we bring to things. The value we bring to things is what gives something meaning often, right, And I know for myself that you know I've talked about it, you and I talked about it before the episode. You know, I'm still doing other work to support myself while I do this, And I'll tell you what, sometimes that work

is just fine and wonderful. Right, It's as far as a job goes, it's got a lot of great things to really recommend it. Yes, the difference is whether I'm feeling it is a burden or not. Is totally my perspective, And the three that you mentioned into really important. The other one for me that is so critical, and it's not just at work, but it's everywhere, and it has been on my mind so much lately is the idea

of resistance. When I'm at work and I'm resisting what I need to do and I'm just not giving all of myself to it, I suffer. I'm just I don't like it. I mean, and I know this, and I still do it. But when I give myself to it and I stop resisting it, all of a sudden, I'm like, this is great. And what's interesting I think is I've talked about this with other people around this idea of for people who are hoping to make a transition at some juncture to doing something else than what they're doing.

There's this idea that like, if I hate my job enough, then I'll leave. What I found is that in order to get to the point where the work that I'm doing outside of the day job right is is is good enough to support me that if I hate my job, I don't have the energy to do it. But if I give myself to the job, then I've got the energy to really pursue the other things outside of it. And so for me, this is a very you know,

I asked the questions. I know I've got listeners, and it's also, you know, one that's very current and present for me and has been for you know years now that we've done this podcast where I'm sort of doing work to support myself and then I'm trying to do this on top of it, and how do I make those two things work together? And I think your answers were great. I love that in this thing of what

you resist persist, I think it's it's so beautiful. And by the way, there's something there's in research called thought suppression, which is we try to suppress the thought. Professor at Harvard had done this research. My my wife actually get our dissertation at Harvard on this um, but what you try to suppress, it comes back. But what's amazing to me, I want to go back to one of your earlier things,

which is freedom. Right. So often, when we're resisting, or when we're mad, or when we're resentful, it's almost like a false sense of agency. Like it's almost like I feel like, I don't like this, and this is my way of taking control of it. But what's totally wild about it is you're the one who suffers when you're

burning up inside, are when you're resisting a situation. Other people like, maybe it's making your harder for them, but your internal experience is your internal experience, And actually it's the total opposite of agency in that sense. I mean, I guess it's an agency towards a very unpleasant feeling,

but it is certainly not freedom. Because I just find this ironic in some ways that we look for power and those sort of things, And I think it speaks to the two wolves that you're talking about in some respects. I was looking at some things of yours online and one of the things that I caught was you mentioned that you were a little bit of a troubled youth. Yeah, talk to me about your story about how you got

where you are today. Yeah. I don't know if you saw that in London text, but I started by saying, you know, I was once set it like a very prestigious leadership forum, which is kind of this that's the space I'm in, and they were asking you know, introducers,

and I don't like big, long introductions of yourself. Um. I think it's important for credibility for you know, but I think when it's too much sometimes, like we're all human beings at a certain level and it's just more authentic to connect on that level for the most part. But I was really reflecting, like I was feeling a little insecure and I was wanting to at least, you know, have some credibility in my introduction, and I was trying

to think, well, what have you really done? And this thought just came to me, like, man, you have not done so much if I really am honest with myself, and and the thing that has been the biggest attributor is other people's kindness, and um, I feel like other people's kindness has been Yeah, it's just amazing. Um. If I think about my own life, I should not be

where I am. But if I can say it's all me and agency, but but really, like, for example, I I write, I grew up totally not writing like dyslexic is not like a little dyslexic. Like literally I would a certain classes history, entrepreneurship, and I would just bomb classes like English, and so this thing of other people who step in and moments of need, other people who mentor you. Maybe when you're you don't deserve it, or the merit isn't there. Maybe maybe the merits there on

some bigger level. But for me, it was really whenever I learned to understand my own mind and emotions. And I think this is one of the things we don't teach in school, uh, is how to understand our own mind and emotions. At the end of the day, we're affective people and we have to go through life with this human experience. But what we learned is like, you know, this kind of base, rudimentary stuff, and if you don't have good early childhood experiences, maybe you know you're not

on such a good track in those things. It becomes very difficult. And so for me that was breathing and meditation. I have a I have a spiritual teacher, a Shankar and in particular, I think the Bokty sutras I was studying, the Boxti suitres was like a very transformational time for me. For those who don't know, Boxti sutures are aphorisms of love and I was a big tough I was actually very tough guy too. Like whenever I was young, I lifted weights at very young age, middle starting in middle school.

And and somehow whenever I found this maybe it was my better wolf, uh cultivated or I fed. That was when I started to feed my better wolf. And yeah, and and then people, lots of people, somebody mentored me in entrepreneurship. Um, but yeah, whenever I was twelve, I went to Juvie and I was just on track. Both my brothers have been in and out of prison my whole life. That would look like where I was going. And now I've met heads of state and programs all

over the world and front multiple companies. So it's a blessed. I just take it with gratitude and I can't give any attribution to anything other than kindness and luck. And um, maybe I fed my good wolf and this has helped me. Yep, the kindness of other people is so critical certainly has been for me when I when I look back on it, Um, there's so many that I could probably never think of them all. And yet then there are a few that are so looming. You know that that there very much there.

In your ted X talk that you did, you you talked about kindness, and you you ended with three reflections on kindness. So maybe that would be a good place for us just to run through those briefly. Yeah, sure, yeah, I'm happy too. So the first is that I'll have to remember the order here. I haven't seen it in many years. But we evaluate who we are kind to,

that's the first thing. Yeah, we choose, like we we we decide who's worthy of our kindness, and this is um you know, and often, to be honest, if we really think we have so much unconscious bias. One neuroscientist who's one of the top centers in the world, he said he believes, after looking at all of the global literature and integrate it for the majority of credible literature,

that of our decisions are unconscious. But we think some people are deserving, some people aren't, and some people were perfectly comfortable kicking to the curve. Or treating like dirt. And then somebody else, usually somebody we like, and we have no idea, we have no idea their story and to my own life, we have no idea their potential, uh, in terms of what they could be with a little

bit of kindness and uh. And I feel there's this thing that you know, when life is hard on people, they become very hard and they kind of kick life back. So that's one. And then the second one is that no act is too small. And I think I shared the starfish story. Um, do you know the starfish I do know the starfish story. We've had a guest on and we told it once before, but it's so good, let's tell it again. Go ahead. All So it's also

a grandfather and a grandson story, so that's appropriate. So a grandson is walking with this grandfather and there was just a huge storm, so all these starfish wash up on the beach and and and they're walking and at first it's very entertaining for the young boy. He thinks, oh, wow, look at the starfish. And then he says, you know, Grandpa, where the starfish live? And the grandfather said, oh, they live in the ocean, so they walked a little bit longer.

And then the boy thinks about it, and he said, well, then what's going to happen to them out here? He says, no, don't worry about it. You know, this is uh, there was just a big storm. This is the nature of life, the cycles of nature. And then the little boy thinks about anything. He asked again, well, well, why can't we help them? Why can't we put to Mecca? And you know, you see this all tourism and kids. A lot of

times you see this innocence. They want to help. They see a problem, or they see somebody not doing well, and they that pathy, that that ability to that wiring for connection hasn't been so jaded, and and they want to help. And so at one point he just runs

and he just says, I'm going to help grandpa. And he starts picking up the starfish and throwing them in the ocean, and the grandfather gets a little bit upset and goes over and grabs him and says, you know, this is something you're just gonna have to learn in life. And uh, and you it's not going to make a difference, you know, it's not gonna make a difference. I just want you to know that this is a lesson you

need to learn. And a little boys looking standing there, looking confused, and he has a starfish in his hand. He looks down at the starfish and he says, grandfather, it will make a difference to this one, and he throws it back in and the water. And I just think this is such a beautiful story of you know, sometimes the problems that we have in our world, human trafficking, environmental degradation, political instability. Uh, they feel bigger than our

ability to respond. Our perception is that we can't. We can't fix these things on our own, so we'll just go on with our lives. And I'm sure you've experienced in this life there's no act is too small, uh, in that sense, like and and even a small act can have a huge ripple effect across many things you just don't know. And oftentimes big things have changed by small acts at the right time and the right way,

in a sincere way. And we all have the agency to make a difference and whatever way it is, and if our intention is right and we're aligned in that way, it can be very beautiful. If you're enjoying this conversation, I hate to be the bearer of bad news. We are nearing the end of it. I wish you could keep listening once the episode ends. Well, I've got some good news to you can The interview continues over at

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rest of the interview with Johan Berlin. The third one is don't lose hope, which you kind of covered, uh, sort of at the end there, which is, you know, it can often feel like we're not making a difference, and we do make a difference. This kind of picks

up on that point. One thing that I think is really passionate about and this is actually something I wrote about recently, and it goes back to this point of scarning what matters, uh, and like this ability to the certain it's really showing up and you had mentioned presence, it's showing up in the moments that matter. I think

it's such a big thing. Often we aren't even present to what's happening in our lives and building cultivating this quality to be able to show up and choosing to show up in the moments that are difficult and also in the moments that are great. I think if we look at attention span and like with now that with electronic devices and other things, more and more we're we're very distractable creatures these days. And meanwhile, every moment is

very precious, right, this ability to show up. And I think the myths that we have in our culture are very counterintuitive to it. So the myths that I know of our if you want to be great, you work harder, you be better, you sacrifice, and certainly all of those things are true, but I feel that it's gone to

an extreme of diminishing returns. And actually the way that one of the things that we're really missing is this ability to restore, to refresh um, to be able to replenish in in scientific terms, to be able to switch into what vagal tone or this more this this more open, flexible way of functioning UM is so important and I would be curious for you, you know, how do you

show up in the moments that matter? I think remembering that I want to show up is probably for the first piece of it is, you know, just just the remembrance like, Okay, bring yourself fully here. That's the biggest challenge for me. If I can do that, although I then I sometimes have to remind myself of you know, why does the moment matter? You know, what is it about this moment that matters? Not that you know, being present necessarily needs a justification, but sometimes it can feel

that way for sure. Yeah, definitely, And I think it goes back to this thing of honor, like if we honor that moment, we can be there. If we don't honor, then we treated we're looking at our phone, or if we honor that dinner conversation, then we can show up for it. And if we're not honoring and it's so often it's unconscious, it's not a value judgment, but I think it's very easy to In fact, I think our environment is very wide wired to hijack our brains uh

from from being in the moment. Oh, it's incredibly wired that way, and it just gets to be more and more that way. I think I think culturally it's a challenge. I mean, I'm certainly not a not a luddite, and I don't think we should move backwards technology wise, but I do think there are there are big ramifications for our near addiction to technology. It was interesting earlier when you mentioned freedom, you know, and what do people want?

You know, sixteen year olds want their driver's license. Well, not so much these days. I mean, amazingly, the studies, these people have been doing this for generations are realizing that sixteen year olds and you know, far less markedly less. I don't want a driver's license because they're not going anywhere. Yeah, you know, they're they're they're a for they're getting less sexually transmitted diseases, drugs and alcohol use is waning. So those are all positive. But there they seem, you know,

but they are unhappier than ever. And it's a lot of because I'm at home with my phone. And again, I don't think the answer is that we just go backwards and we get rid of things. Technology marches on and trying to stop it is usually a fool's errand but being but being wiser about how we use it and being able to inform people about the impacts that using technology might have on them. I think is important. Yeah, no, I mean we're in a new industrial revolution and with

every innovation comes risks. Right with nuclear energy, there's also the risk of nuclear nuclear bombs and I and uh so we have to I think when we go through these major transferment and we're just beginning. I mean you look at machine learning, you look at AI. Some people, uh say that were many many years away for you know, sophisticated A. I think, um, some of the smartest and biggest brands in the world are making it their number

one objective. But you know, are we looking at the ethical and the moral principles and what is the ethics in that innovation? I think this is the key because to your point, you we're not going to stop it, but can we live? And this is important to me. And understanding and valuing what makes us human is so important. And and as we move into that age, how are we keeping the fabric, you know, and and throwing and throwing out the inhibiiencies is an important discussion and debate

for sure. Well, Johan, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. This has been a fun conversation. And uh, I've you know, Emma introduced us, and I'm glad that we got the chance to talk. Yeah, me too. I'm really happy and I'm and I appreciate your inquiry. Uh that I think it's a very beautiful thing of this feeding the two wolves. And and so maybe i'll I'll think about this. You know, how what what am I feeding? I think there's a lot of

daily lessons even in that inquiry. Yeah, it's another way of what we talked about earlier, keeping your values in mind, thinking about what's important. It's just another mechanism for that that essential question of you know, what matters? And am I doing things that matter? You know, my spending my time in a way that lines up with what I value? Yeah? Absolutely absolutely Well, thank you so much, and thank you for the work you do. Thank you, and I hope

next time we talked, I have a book. So wishing you all the best. Right, Okay, thank you so much. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a donation to the one you Feed podcast, asked head over to one you feed dot net slash support