Howard Martin (HeartMath)

and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Howard Martin, who helped

found heart Math. Heart Math was created to help individuals, organizations, and the global community incorporate the hearts intelligence into their day to day experience of life. They do this by connecting heart and science in ways that empower people to greatly reduce stress, build resilience, and unlock their natural intuitive

guidance for making better choices. During his career with heart Math, Howard has delivered programs for fortune on companies, government agencies, all four branches of the U. S Military, and many school systems. He co authored the Heart Math Solution and Heart Intelligence, connecting with the intuitive guidance of the Heart. Hey, everybody,

I've got an announcement that I'm really excited about. One of the big things I've learned from doing this show and my years in recovery is that the community is such an important part in making lasting, transformative of change in our lives. It's great to listen to important ideas, but the lessons stick more when we have a chance to discuss them and go deeper. I've been thinking about ways that would allow us to do this with the show,

so I've created the one You Feed Facebook group. In the group, we plan to have in depth discussions of the weekly episodes, book giveaways, practical tips for incorporating some of these ideas into your life, author Q and A, and lots of other things. To kick it off, We're going to have a book giveaway contests, so anyone who signs up in the next three days will be entered into a contest to win five free books that have

been featured on the show. So go to one you feed dot net slash Facebook or search for the one you feed discussion group on Facebook. It's a closed group, so you'll have to ask for acceptance and then we'll let you in. We did this so you could feel free to share more without having to worry about it being in public. So I'm really excited about this. I'm really looking for ways to help all of us get more value out of the show and to incorporate these

things into our day today life. So I think this is a great step in that direction, and I hope to see you there. So again, when you feed dot net, slash Facebook, or search for the one you feed discussion group on Facebook, talk to you soon. Thanks, And here is the interview with Howard Martin. Hi Howard, Welcome to the show. Yo, Eric, thank you very much for having

me excellent. Yeah, you were recommended. I think a couple of different listeners have said that they thought the heart Math group, which you're part of, would be a good guest for the show. So I I put you guys on the list, and as I started looking more into it, I thought, yeah, that would be an interesting conversation. So I'm looking forward to getting into some of the things that you guys do. Let's do it. Yeah, But before we get into it, let's start like we always do

with the parable. And there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson and he says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hate, tride and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says,

the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. That's great and nice parable. Well, I think you know, obviously, the parable speaks to polarity and to division, and we see a lot of that in the world today, that's for sure. We see, you know, polarization happening everywhere. It's

dimmick of the times, I think. And at the same time, I think that you know, those type of characterizations of good and bad and right and wrong are actually you know, beginning to move out in some ways. We're beginning to see things a little bit differently, a bit more openly,

a bit more holistically in a sense. But what I'm hearing that parable is that basically, there are different sides to every one of us, and some of those sides relate to more of the qualities based on heart, you know, the type of work that I do, certainly the kindness, the care of the compassion, that aspect of human kind. And then there are the parts of us that aren't so glowing, you know, where we have the jealousies and the angers and the hates and the fears and the

judgments and that part of ourselves. And what the parable is saying is that the one that wins is the one we feed. So if you want to live our life, you know, in judgment, if you want to live our life in an unappreciative state, if we want to live through that lens, then we're gonna create a life that

looks like that. That's what's gonna win, and that's where our life is going to be, and we're gonna experience the life that doesn't have as much quality or fulfillment in it as we deserve and we really can have. On the other hand, if moment to moment, day to day, we make the effort to generate more of the type of inner attitudes and emotions that regenerate us, like care and compassion and kindness and appreciation and love, We're going

to create a different picture of our life. We're gonna create a different life that one that to me offers a heck of a lot more fulfillment. And so it becomes a matter of the choices that we make moment to moment, day to day on which way we go, and that varies for each and every one of us. You know, I can have lots of wonderful high aspirations in my day and leave the house in the morning and a loving, caring state, and I can get an email that upsets me right at that moment. What choice

am I gonna make? Am I gonna be angry about the email? I'm gonna Am I gonna lash out with a response? Or am I going to be more balanced than neutral about it? Am I gonna pause? Am I going to consider some things? Am I gonna assess it from a different perspective, and it's those little choices that I think are represented by the term it's the one we feed. It's those choices that we make moment to moment, day to day that create the movie of our own life.

So your organization is called heart Math is at the heart Math Institute. You know, the heart Math Institute is are nonprofit. Is the original organization. That nonprofit evolved into a for profit company, heart Math LLC, which is the larger entity today. But heart Math is what people know in the world. They don't really separate us out as a institute or for profit that they know heart Math and heart Math is really an institution in a sense

that is a very large footprint in the world today. Well, let's talk about at the heart of heart Math. Um pun intended there. Um, you guys talk about the idea of heart intelligence. So why don't we start off by having you explain what heart intelligence means. Well, a long long time ago, before there ever was a heart Math, there was an exploration of trying to be better people. Doc's Shouldery, Heart Mess founder, myself and many others all involved in, you know, in a personal growth process that

led us to looking at heart. I mean, if you look at a lot of the personal growth processes, teaching, spiritual teachings, philosophies, they all talk about heart in very different and unusual ways than the way it's often characterized in modern society. We took a deep look at that to see if there was something there or not, and what we found was is that within every single one of us, there is this intelligence that can and does lift us beyond our problems, even in the midst of

the chaos and confusion that we often experience. It's been talked about in all those philosophies and religious teachings for thousands of years and what has called as heart. So what we did is we began to look at heart, and now we could take heart from the respected uh confines of spirituality, religion, philosophy and then put it into daily living where it was needed the most. That transfer of the qualities of heart in a very practical, bottom line,

empirical way into how we lived our lives. And so that's where the term heart math even came from. You know, people have an understanding what heart means to them, and then it needs a groundedness, It needs to be taken into something that's very practical and useful. So that's where heart math came from. So we have this intelligence that we've been exploring for a long time now that's more important in these times, I believe eric than ever before.

And we found that it's intuitive in nature. It's the type of intelligence that's super high speed that allows us to go more to direct knowingness and bypass some of the logical linear processes that we often need to use to reach understand ending. It's an intelligence that really exists at the very core of who we are, a true

authentic self. When we're in touch with that intelligence, that's when we have the ability to move beyond our mediocrity, to do things that surprise ourselves, you know, to accomplish things, to make changes in ourselves that we go, wow, do we really do that? That has a lot to do with being in touch with that core of ourselves, the intelligence of the hart. To me, it's also the source

of self security. It's a place that we look to when we are confronted with challenges that we simply can't figure out, when there's nowhere else to go, when we can't come up with a solution to a dawning problem or challenge, or something that's very very difficult. We will look within one way or another, whether it's someone who prays or somebody hu meditates, or simply taking a walk in the woods or driving off into the car in

the middle of the night. We pull deeper inside ourselves looking for something, and when we do, we often find a sense of self security and comfort. The problem doesn't go away, but we we feel something inside ourselves that gives us a sense that somehow this will work out, that we will overcome what's in front of us. And that's the intelligence of the heart. So it's kind of

the hero within within all of us. And I think, Eric, one of the things that I've learned in all these years of exploring heart is that when it comes right down to it, my heart and the intelligence of my heart is really my own best friend, and it's the most reliable guy to have to making decisions that I need to make in life, whether they be big decisions or little decisions. So that's a picture of what we

call heart intelligence. It's both mental, emotional, and spiritual. It's a and even physical, it's a it's a core aspect of who we are and developing heart intelligence really is one of the initiatives of our time, one of the most important things that I believe we can do excellent. So you guys, uh, you know, you had this intuition that the heart was important, and then you started turning to some research. And one of the areas that you've spent a lot of time on research is a on

the area of heart rate variability. Can we talk about what that is? And strangely we want more variability than less, which sounds counterintuitive. Yeah, let me put it back in it just a little bit if I may, and say that, Yeah, we had an understanding of heart in ourselves when we started hard math, and we wanted to create a system that we could be shared with the world that could bring more heart and a very practical, non sentimental, non sweet,

soft and fluffy way into modern life. Now, to do that, we knew we had to have a bridge between the sort of philosophical heart and the practical heart. We chose science to be that bridge. And the reason we chose science is because of how much weight it carries in in in our society. When something has proven scientifically becomes empirical, and once it becomes empirical, then the power of belief

in it increases. So we began resource early on. When we started heard math now twenty five years ago and we were looking at the physical heart. We wanted to know if the physical heart was more than just the blood pump. And what we found was amazing. We found, through through our research and through research scattered throughout the research literature, that the heart was actually a very important and powerful information processing center in our bodies. It wasn't

just slavishly pumping blood. It was sending information to the brain and throughout the rest of the body. Now, our researchers put together the story which has really changed the view of the physical heart of how we understand the physical heart not just the blood pump, but rather an information processing center. It communicates this information in four different ways through a neurological communication, the nervous system that exists

within the heart itself that communicates with the brain. It communicates through something called a blood pressure wave, which is the wave of energy created by the squeezing of the heart muscle that pumps the blood, and that blood pressure wave influences all kinds of body functions, including electrical activity in the brain. We also found eric that in nineteen eighty three. This is one of these examples of who knew this was in the research literature, but who knew

about it? But in three the heart was actually reclassified as being part of our hormonal system because it produced a number of very important and powerful hormones. The fourth way is an energetic communication. The heart is an electrical organ It produces by far the strongest source of bioelectricity in our bodies, so strong in fact, that it creates an electromagnetic field that surrounds each and every one of

us in three sixty degrees. And that electromagnetic field produced by the heart can be measured outside the skin, and it actually stands beyond our skin about three to four speed feed out into space. The frequencies in that field are constantly changing, and they're changing because of what we are feeling emotionally, and for feeling angry, it produces a very incoherent field. For feeling loving, it produces a very coherent field. So we're literally in a sense of broadcasting

our emotions through this electromagnetic field. Now that's a backdrop to your question about heart rate variability. We needed a way to measure the quality of this heart brain body communication. We call heart rate variability analysis, and here's what that is. It's not just a measurement of heart rate like to say a fitness monitor. It's really measuring the timing that

takes place between heart beats. You know, the heart builds up and then it pumps, and then it reloads again, and then it pumps and then reloads again and pumps with the timing between one pump and another pump could be something like point three to six seconds between the next two could be something like point five, four eight, So it's varying all the time. So heart rate variability ends up being a great measurement of the quality of

heart brain body communication. It's also a very important measurement of the autonomic nervous system, and it's also used to measure things like uh, cardiovascular health and aging. So we do want a lot of variability. When we're first born, we have the most variability we ever have. Other words, we want the heart to have a wide range of speeds that can operate in We wanted to have any sense of flexibility. We actually begin to lose variability the older that we get. We don't have as much when

we're older as we do when we're younger. So we look at heart rate variability, and we can analyze heart rate variability patterns and we can see clearly the quality of this heart brain body communication. So it's an amazing science and it's given us a window of view into so many things, including our emotional states. It's really cool. And so you guys talk about within the heart rate variability, but in general, this idea of coherence, walk me through coherence, Okay.

Coherence is a highly ordered state, both psychologically and physiologically. It is a high performance state. It is not a sleepy time state. It's a very aware, engaged state. We arrive at coherence in a variety of ways. We can be petting our dog and enjoying the love from the dog, and be more coherent being with their child, being with their grandchild, doing something we love to do, being in nature,

or when we do uh meditative practice. Physiologically, all the major's body systems begin to synchronize to the rhythmic beating pattern of the heart. Those systems would be things like brain function, digestion, respiration, immune system response, hormonal response. All those systems sync up, and when that happens, we end up in a very healthy high performance state. Now this is you for I'll give you one example. One of the areas in which we've done a lot of training

is athletics. We've trained professional golfers, Olympic gymnasts, swimmers, uh, lots of different people, NFL kickers, baseball players, basketball players, all training coherence. Now, why would they want to be in trained in something related to heart? Well, it's because in that physiological uh state of high coherence, things like reaction speed times improved, visual field improves. The athlete is operating at a more efficient level. And that's your physiological

explanation of high coherence. The psychological one is this coherence is triggered by feeling a sustained positive emotion. When we're feeling that love we feel when we were their child or grandkid. That engender's coherence. When we're showing appreciation rather

than frustration, we're gonna be more coherent. Once we're in that coherent state, which we have it triggered, then what's really happening is that those type of emotions become more readily available, they begin to flow more, so we end up feeling better at an emotional level. So coherence is both a highly efficient and effective physiological state triggered by and accompanied by a very healthy, productive, and positive emotional state.

So is it a chicken or egg or both? You know, do you do you have positive emotions which puts you into coherence or do you go into coherence which produces positive emotions. That's a really great question, Eric, a hard one to answer. It all happens pretty quick, doesn't it, you know, uh, certainly, you know. When we're measuring coherence, it requires the individual to uh, to to make an

effort to activate a positive emotion. And sometimes it will be suggestions like just feel appreciation for the good things in your life, or can you feel the care and love you have for someone or something in your life? So there's a there's a self initiated effort made and then once it's triggered. You know, that's the chicken and the egg thing, you know, And it's true of all emotions. Really,

we have emotional choices, We can choose emotions. Yet we also are triggered by life's events and we feel emotions as we are triggered. So it's a back and forth process. The best way to deal with it. It It is recognized that whether it's chicken or egg, that we can create more coherence in our lives by actively activating more heart related emotions. Yeah, I'm distracted by chicken and egg. I saw a completely inappropriate cartoon the other day that I

seem to be unable to not not not say. And it's got a chicken lane in bed and on the edge of the bed, sitting there looking very despairing is the egg? And the chicken says, well, it only took me about twenty five seconds to answer that question. Oh my god, I know inappropriate. I couldn't help it, though. It is a it's a funny one. Um. So when you talk about coherence and heart rate variability, you you're

actually measuring this. We're not where you have tools that you use to measure how our heart rate variability looks, how much in this coherent state we are correct? Yeah, we took it even further than that we have. I mean, there's there's research equipment and things that we use for research studies, but we took that same technology down to something that anybody can use. We turn it into consumer

related product. We have the Interbalanced Trainer, which is an app that runs on iOS devices you downloaded from the Apple Store for free. Then you buy a sensor either from US or off of Amazon for the Interbalanced Trainer, and you plug it into your I phone or your iPad, and now you've got the ability to look at your heart rate variability. On the app, you can measure it for the degree of coherence, and it teaches you how

to increase your coherence. So the app as a training tool that allows a person to learn how to increase their level of coherence. Now we have that version, we have a desktop version for people that want to use it on their computers. We have a handheld device called m Wave two that people use that don't have iOS devices. And there have been hundreds and hundreds of thousands of

these solds all around the world. They're being used everywhere, and they're being used because people want to help with things. They want to learn how to better manage their emotions, they want to sleep better, they want to perform better, they want to have better relationships. Heart rate variability, learning to increase your caherents, learning to use technology like this

can benefits you in all those ways and more. And so they're used and everything from you know, academic institutions to businesspeople to ordinary folks on trying to to get a handle on life, two people involved in spiritual pursuits. There's a lot of applications for it, so I think it's one of the coolest things we did as we were able to take something that was looked at the only scientific terms and turn it into something that we can all use, and turn technology into something that doesn't

take away anything from us. It actually helps us and improves us as human beings. Yet it's it's very interesting those those tools. I haven't had a chance to use them yet, but I'm definitely interested. So let's talk about how we move ourselves to coherence, because that's a big part of what you guys do. You've you've certainly done this research. You're explaining the importance of the heart, the way these things work. You've given tools to measure and

monitor it. But but what are some techniques that we could that we could talk about here that people can use to move themselves towards coherence or to get better heart rate variability? You know, I'm glad you asked that question because sometimes people sort of stop at the heart mass science and technology, and that's only a small part of what we do. As I mentioned earlier in our conversation.

We were trying to create a system that people could use anywhere in life no all societal segments UH to help add more heart to everything that they do. So to support that, we developed you know tools and techniques.

You find them in our training programs, you know books as you know, I think you've read both the books that I've co authored and their tools and techniqus in those books, things like quick coherence, a very simple three step process that people can use anytime, anywhere to sort of reboot their system and reconnect with our hearts intelligence.

We have a technique called the freeze frame technique, very powerful technique for accessing more intuition used for making decisions clarity about anything we need to to gain more understanding about from an intuitive perspective. We have communication tools, we

have project planning tools like heart mapping, heart hologramming. All these are a skill set that people can learn through basically heart math courses that allow them to really cultivate their hearts intelligence and then apply it in different aspects of their life. That's why we have different tools for different different applications, so they can be used in different ways and you can add heart to everything that you do.

So can you walk us through one of those techniques, like maybe the heart lock or the freeze frame about how people do that, so we we give listeners something they can do. Now, I'd be glad to you. I didn't know that was appropriate to what we want to do on our conversation today, but I'd be happy to do that. The best one to do on a program

like this is to use the quick coherence technique. It's a technique that it's a high utility value, meaning you can do it anytime, anywhere, and it's gonna put you in touch with your heart's intelligence. It's gonna improve your heart rate variability, and it's gonna create more coherence in your system. So it's great for like rebooting your system, especially after you feel stressed. It's great for giving yourself a boost of energy when you feel a little bit tired,

a little bit you know down. To be honest with you, it's uh, you know, a little late for me right now. And I did that technique before we started our show, sorted to get back to a certain solid place and myself before you know, and went public here. So let me take everybody through it. It's it's a simple three step process. You can do the technique with your eyes open or your eyes closed, so either way it's fine.

But the first step is called heart focus, and I like everyone right now to focus your tension right in the area on the center of your chest, the area of your heart. Just feel your tension go right there. If you want to, you can put your hand there, but just feel the energy coming from up in the head, up in the brain of the mind. Feel it like taking an elevator, maybe like down into the area of the heart, in the center of your chest. And step two,

it's called heart focus breathing. I'd like you to breathe naturally and normally, but go ahead and breathe deeper than you normally would, nice deep breaths. And as you breathe, I want you to imagine that your breath is flowing in and out right through the area of the heart, the center of your chest, right where you have your attention deep breaths. Imagine your breath is going in and

out through the center of your chest. What's happening right now in your body is your autonomic nervous system is synchronizing. Hormones are being released into your body that are regenerated to for you, and signals are beginning to change between heart and brain and the rest of the body. But now let's take it to the third and most important step. It's called heart feeling. Continue with your heart focused breathing, and now I like you to feel a positive heart

related emotion. Make it a general process. Don't force anything easy, does it general process? Maybe appreciate something, Appreciate some of the good things that are taking place in your life right now or again, maybe feel the care and love you have for someone. Could be a person, your spouse, significant other, child, grandchild, great friend, mentor okay, would be your pet, your dog or your cat, someone or something

that you love and appreciate and care for. And just feel that feeling as you do your heart focus breathing. As you're doing this step, heart brain communication is improving dramatically, Signals going from the heart back to the brain or opening up higher perceptual centers in your brain. Hormones that regenerates you, like oxytocin d h A being released into your body. This is healthy for your nervous system and

for your physical heart. It's adding regeneration to your system and it's patterning you in a way to allow you to feel positive emotions more easily in the future. So the three steps to do this are simply heart focus, heart focus, eathing, and then activating a heart feeling, and there you have quick coherence, a technique you can do easily anytime, anywhere, in between meetings, driving in your car, before an important phone call. High utility value for a

technique like this with big benefit. One of the things that I think is always important to point out about techniques like this, and you guys make the point in one of your books is that sometimes it takes a while to learn a technique like this and to have it start to generate the results you want. You guys actually say in the book sometimes we give up too quickly on the things that would benefit us the most. Yeah, I think we have to take a very practical approach

to There's there's no quick fixes these days. I mean I think there are, there are faster fixes, but they're no just ones that are instantaneous. And I think you know, and especially in the when you're help trying to help people improve themselves, you have to be realistic and practical. Bad things if you make too many promises. Then there's disappointment. People do give up too quickly on things. You have to give give anything you try, whether it's heart, math

or something else, a little time for to mature. Uh. It takes at least, you know, three weeks of practicing something is to create behavior change. That's something that researchers have looked at. But you can create new baselines in yourself easier than you might think. It just takes being genuine about doing it. It takes you know, being real about it, takes putting hard into it to put it in my charms. It takes adding heart to what you're

trying to do and trying to accomplish. But if you give it a little time and you exercise some patience, and you stay consistent with your practice, and you're gonna see a results. But I love the fact I think probably you're you're quoting some of Doc Shouldrey's work in our books. The doc always puts it in that context. You never wants started were promising. Every wants it to sound like it's just a big, quick, fixed thing that you do this little technique and suddenly all your problems

go away. It's really about learning to be more maturely self managed as we play the game of life. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think that's a big part of what this show is about and talks about, is that you know, there are no no magic bullets, dramatic changes possible, but it takes it takes effort, and

it takes time. So one of the things I'd like to turn towards now is you guys talk a lot about following your heart, paying attention to what your your heart says, and there's a lot of quotes in popular culture around the same thing. But I thought you guys said something that was really useful and important, and I'd like you to elaborate on it a little bit more. It can be challenging to distinguish the guidance of our heart from the mental and emotional beliefs that often shape

our thoughts. You may have found, as I did years ago, that following what you thought was your heart got you into trouble. So how do we start to tell that difference, because that one is certainly challenging. Well, the first thing is to understand it's gonna be a feeling more than it's gonna be thoughts. It's a sensing that you have inside in order to look and find with the signal.

To notice those signals, it requires slowing down sort of the vibratory rate of the mind and emotions a little bit. It's the little pauses that we make. Is slowing things down just a little. It doesn't mean just going into some passive, totally laid down on the ground kind of state, but it's slowing down inside. It's finding a state of ease inside yourself, a feeling of ease and flow inside. And as you do that, you can do it while you're active, but as you do that, you begin to

pick up different signals. And they're more feelings than they are thoughts. You feel like you should be doing this, so you feel like you shouldn't be doing that. You get these sensings and you begin to experiment a little bit with it. And I know that you know a lot of people think they follow their heart and got them into trouble and got them hurt and all that. Well, to me, that's they followed a part of their heart.

They follow the one that still had all the attachments to outcome still how all the expectations associated with it. They put their heart into that with a bunch of expectations, and the expectations weren't met, and suddenly they were disappointed and they blame it on heart. But deeper down inside, at that true heart, the deeper hearted intelligence, there's a guidance system. It doesn't have as much attachment to outcome, it doesn't have as much of that over emotional investment

in things. It has a more discerning quality to it. Again, it's more mature, and that discerning quality never let you down. It never leads you astray. It may take you to places that you don't like at the time, but as you would continue to follow that, you'll find that over time things work out better than you could possibly have imagined. If I may, can I share a little story about that, Eric, Okay, so I'll make it as brief as I can. Early in my life I had a completely different career and role.

I was a rock musician. I was a drummer. I started when I was nine years old. By the time I was in my early twenties, I was playing with people who had records out. It's all I ever thought I wanted to do. My entire identity was wrapped up in it. I also had an interest in my personal growth, and over a period of many years, as my awareness began to increase, I began to have less I guess you could call it attachment to or less joy coming

from that world of being in the music business. But yet I was so attached to it it was hard to get out of it. You just couldn't walk away from that. You're all, my identity was involved in it. Everything was there. I've never done anything else with my life other than that, really, so it's hard to walk way. But my heart kept speaking, and I kept ignoring it,

but it kept speaking. It finally led me to a place where there was a major decision I had to make to go one way or another with my life and my career in my music career, and I made a choice to leave music, and I had no other options. I jumped off the cliff. I just knew that now I had to do something different with my life. I did it, and about a month after I did it,

I was broke. I was living in a mobile home in eastern North Carolina with no job, and the job that I finally got was working for minimum wage in a mall. And at that time of my life, I was saying to myself. I will never follow my heart again as long as I live for the rest of my life. How do you go from like that to this? And you know, in a period of a couple of months, you know, how do you go from those two worlds?

I will never do this again today. I when I look back at that, I go, wow, that was that was a super good choice and intelligent choice from me, because look at what I have today. I'll always love music, but I don't think it would have ever fulfilled me the way that what I do today has. Today, I'm a part of an organization that's amazing. I have the ability to be an author, to be a speaker, to be a contributor to this. My life feels aligned with

my mission. I feel like I'm helping people so fulfill that I'm doing something good in the world, and all of that adds up to a very fulfilling and enriched life. I don't know that I would have had that had I stayed in music. I seriously doubt that I would. But sometimes you have to take those chances. You have to follow what you really believe your heart saying. You have to try and go for it, and if it

doesn't rewards you right away. Please don't turn around and look at the heart is the bad guy in this the one that led you astray. Give it time, let it play out over time. That's my story, and that's what I've learned, you know, Um, one of the many things I've learned about heart intelligence all these years is that you have to give it time and let it play out. But I've never seen my heart let me down in any decision I've ever made that really came

from that deeper place withinside of myself. Excellent. That's a great story, and I think that is a great point for us to go ahead and wrap up the interview. I know you wanted to mention a special promotion that you guys had for our listeners, So why don't we do that and then we'll wrap up, okay you? Eric?

Before I came on air today, I got a call from the Heart Math marketing people who said, you know, we saw on your calendar you're doing the podcast today with Eric Zimmer and would you like to make an offer?

And I said sure, and they said, well, we'll be willing to, you know, between now and the end of October to offer per off on the Heart Intelligence book, which is our newest book, which I co authored with Doc Shouldering, our founder, and to other heart math leaders Dr Debora Rosman and Dr Roland McCrady off on the book. And if you're interested in the inter balanced trainer or m Wave two or m Wave pro, the technology that we talked about earlier, you can also get off of

that as well. And that's a really good offer there. So you would simply go to and you are all heart math dot com forward slash heart Book, and there you get you a coupon code and you can put the coupon code in the shopping cart and you get your discount. The coupon code and all that will be on the page that is associated with the interview that we're doing now, so you'll be able to see the coupon code there. Excellent. Well, thank you so much Howard

for coming on the show. I really enjoyed our conversation and I enjoyed learning more about heart Math. Eric, thank you very much for having me, and thanks everyone for taking your time and to listen to this and I hope you've benefited in some way from it. Excellent, take care, bye,

okay bye. You can learn more about Howard Martin and this podcast at one you Feed dot net slash Howard and just as a reminder, go to one you Feed dot net slash Facebook or go on Facebook and search for the one you Feed discussion group and join in on the conversation. Thanks. Bye,