When I feel something affecting my peace, that's when I kind of start making the adjustments. But it's always every day going to happen, and eventually you get good at like kind of swatten flies we'll call it. But you don't walk out there thinking there's no flies.
Welcome to the one you feed Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.
Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direct, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Anthony Trucks, a former NFL athlete, American Ninja Warrior on NBC, and international speaker, host of The Awe Shift and Shift Starter podcasts. Is
an author and founder of Identity Shift Coaching. By teaching audiences how to turn roadblocks and obstacles into opportunities, Anthony inspires and teaches people to unlock their full potential and achieve success and happiness.
Hi, Anthony, welcome to the show.
Hey, thank you for having me.
It is a pleasure to have you on. We're going to be discussing your book, which is called Identity Shift Upgrade, how you operate to elevate your life and just your work in general. And I'm excited to get to that. But before where we do, we'll start like we always do, with the parable and the parable. There's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.
One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops. They think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do.
I am man. I think it's the human investment bias, right, it's whatever you put in will come out kind of thing. There's just one thought I used to have about like the subconscious and the emotions and the feelings. We live in a world we consume a lot, right. I love the idea of like what you fee is going to survive, and I think we have a lack of comprehension of what's being fed into our minds the social media, the TV,
the radio, the news. But you can only grow from what the sea that was planted, is, right, So if you plant a seed of alemon, you're going to get a lemon tree. And so if you want to have something great, an amazing you know tree, I don't know whatever Sherry's on it, you can't seed weeds. So I think that what I hear in that is you have to make sure you're being very cognizant of what goes into your mind to make sure you have an amazing life come out of you. Yeah.
I mean that is such an obvious point and yet one that so many of us overlook. We think either that these things are neutral that we're putting in or that they are not problematic. And again, everything I think is a matter of degree. True, it's not like for me anyway, I don't think I should be pumping only uplifting spiritual personal development content into my mind twenty four hours a day because it's just it gets to be
too much. Right, There's a time and a place for me to watch some Netflix and two now, but it's for me, it's all a matter of degree. There's a time and a place to pay attention to the news, so I know what's going on in the world, but there's a very clear tipping point for me where that becomes very negative.
I agree, one hundred percent agree. I think for me, I didn't even like to watch the news beyond it, I don't either. My best friend he'll put the news on in the background. And I started noticing this a couple of years ago. Whe would, in fact, like be in a room and go, why do I feel uncomfortable? Like i'd be at you know, you get a hotels to breakfast thing going on, and so I'm at breakfast and I'm like, why do I feel I started noticing I was even paying attention to the news, but it
was just there. Yeah, and it's like seventeen people this happened to him, and then back in this country this happened. It's like, oh my, it just so Yeah, it can subconsciously just kind of float in there because you're still listening to the world, even just for purpose of survival. You're paying attention to noises, and little by little it comes in without you knowing it. Yeah.
I'm the same way. I mean, Ginny really likes to have the news on. I think it makes her feel connected to the world, and I'm like, to each of their own right, it's just I notice I react to it. I noticed that it's just relentless. Yeah, always say awful news. I said to her her recently. I was like, do you think that anchor guy goes home and just sob at night? Like I mean, because it's just an hour of like just heartrending stuff. And again, it's not about
pretending that none of that stuff is happening. But I think it's worth knowing what we're more sensitive to. And I think I am more sensitive to that sort of thing. I am more sensitive to advertising, Like it doesn't make me go and buy things, but it plants seeds of unrest in me?
Do I need that? Yeah?
Thinking I want something or comparing myself. Am I as happy as the people in the Ozembic commercial?
Right?
And so for me, I just kind of know what works well for me, you know, kind of what I need to feed.
I think it's being in touch with yourself too, right. I think that probably a lot of people they stopped and thought about it. They can think to a moment of like, oh that did happen? They felt that. We just have connected the feeling to a conscious thought. Now, yeah, and I didn't always. I'm not going to say I always had that because I just, you know, have the news on a big deal. But I started kind of,
I would say, evolving in a way of psychologist. I saw myself as a man and a husband and a father, and as a coach and a leader in the world. I gotta protect that because what comes out of me affects people's lives, especially in a podcast like this, you know. So it's like I got to make sure I'm really aware of what I'm having come out, I mean, process all of it, and so I find that it actually what I'm having, Like I don't listen to a lot
of the news at all. The radio in the morning, my kids will listen to like the the whatever radio station, even that stuff. I'm like, this is trash. I don't care what Kim Kardashian decided to do on her TV show yesterday, Like it's crazy that that's what our world thinks about. I'm very like you are cut off from the world. I get my news from couple sources that are usually readable, that are on platforms that are unbiased as I can get it. Just need the information. I
don't need your processing of the information. And so if I can do that, then I stay up to date. I know what's going on, and I function properly in the world. But I'm in control of my energy.
Yeah, I think you made just a really important point there that I think is central to all the work that you do that I do in this personal growth spiritual space, which is that ability to connect what is going on around us to what we're actually feeling and making that more conscious, because it's amazing how much I can be affected and there can be this undercurrent happening in me that I'm not even conscious of or aware of, and so much for me is about being able to
bring that what's happening in the unconscious. I mean different people would use different words for it, the pre conscious, you know, pre conscious often meaning that which is in consciousness and is available to consciousness but just not not there yet. But connecting that to kind of how I'm feeling and what's causing what and just being aware of that I find so helpful but so hard.
Also, yeah, well it is because I think at the same time, is right when you get to know the voice, you change and the voice changes, and because the world's also evolved, and they say you can never step in the same river twice because a man's not the same and the river's not the same, but there could be an awareness to it. And then I think also life changes around and so what's important. Changes we're accessing, changes the vision we had, we get to and achieve it and
go all we got to have a new vision. So yeah, one hundred percent agree with that. And also I've noticed that in my journey when I've actually felt like, oh, I get to know it, it's a short lived knowledge that I not that I you know, don't have any insights, but I'm like, because of what I accomplished, where I got you're introduced to new forks in the road you
didn't realize existed. Instead of a reprocessing and reanalyzing, you look back and you go, cash, I thought I knew it all five years ago, and I was an idiot then, you know, And so it just progresses up the ladder.
Yeah, one percent. And I think you talk about this a lot in your work about how there's not like this point where you get to a place and then you're like done. You did a thing on one of your shorter podcasts recently around like winning is just a beginning, right, Yeah. Yeah, But it points to the same thing, which is that the work of awareness and the work of connecting what we're feeling and what we're thinking with what's going on around us, with our behavior, that process never ends. It
is an ongoing process. It's one that is in a way fresh in every moment, even if it does seem like we're sort of in the same habitual thought patterns and loops. Who may be in them for a while. But the more we're conscious of what's happening, actually, the less time we spend stuck there.
Yeah, I would agree for sure. I think we started learning the process to navigate it right, because I think there's a skill and understanding the process of navigation of it all. What is the book called. I think it's called The Power of Habit and talks about how the habit for some people, like if navigating situations and changes
is unique. But this is one moment where they talk about these people who are they're in hospital beds, they just had hip surgery or something, and what they had to do is they had to figure out how to get to the front where people to go visit them. For half the group, they said, hey, we're gonna let you go to the front, but we want you to think about in advance all the different stages you have to walk through to get to the front. And so
they would think through it right. And then the person who didn't, you know, they just were setting the race. So someoney would show up and they'd be said, told them, hey, go to the front. Now. The people with no plan, like they left the room first obstacle, they sat down the room. The journey had a couple done, but they'd always face something that wasn't a nuance they'd expected before. But because they had the skill of planning for having done it before, they could plan in the real time
to move forward. So the cool thing and they always got the front of the building, right. The cool thing is like, that's how I think we do and we have these plans, and you get good at the plan, the process and the navigation that you're talking about, and then you face something you go, I've done it before, and you do it in real time, and then all of a sudden you can move past the sticking point. Yeah.
I think the other thing embedded in what you just said there is the expectation of obstacle, right, just the recognition that it's inevitable. You know, when I used to do a lot of one on one coaching with people on habits, I would say, you know, there's going to come a time that you don't do this behavior. It is inevitable. It is not a question of if. It's a question of when. Sooner or later. Life's going to get in the way, or something's going to happen and
you're going to get a little off track. So knowing that, let's think about what are we going to do when that happens. And I think it a sets the stage for the plan in that you're talking about, and it sets the stage for just knowing like that's part of life. And very often, particularly when a significant obstacle comes up that I did not see coming at all, there's almost a stunned period where I'm like, wait, wait a minute,
like that's not supposed to happen, you know. And I think the more we recognize that obstacles are just a part of life, the more gracefully we can handle them.
I finutely agree with that. I mean one thousand percent agree with it, because they say life is what happens between your plans, right. It's just there's a reason that cliche exists because it is and that's what makes life life. It was something I knew all the time it wouldn't be fun. I like the nuance of like seeing it have to navigate stuff because it does teach just skills, but you also get a pride for having accomplished it,
which is pretty cool. But yeah, I think that the we'll call it the nuances to life of it never being perfect. If you can embrace that that's the reality of it all, then yes, you handle them with more grace. I have a lot more patience, and you actually have a lot more peace, And for me, peace is the key I don't live in chaos. I even like when casts around we're talking about the news, I think the
news is bringing chaos in my life. It literally is bringing chaos in the world, like telling you what's going on. And so when I feel something affecting my peace, that's when I kind of start making the adjustments. But it's always every day going to happen, and eventually you get good at kind of swatt and flies we'll call it. But you don't walk out there thinking there's no flies. I just know I'm good at swattin flies or protect my peace. A matter of fact, a buddy of mind,
Trent shallon Is says protect your peace. So it's funny I said that, but I get where it comes from. Now. Yeah, but that's the idea is you create that and then you protect it. But you don't go into the world thinking nothing's going to affect it. You go into the world going I can handle this. Jordan Peterson has this statement. He says it is better to be a warrior in
a garden than a gardener in a war. It's a cool one, right, I Oh, it's that's awesome because essentially it's saying, like I got the ability to be peaceful, but I have the skills to protect it.
Yeah yeah, And being a gardener in a war is no good.
No fun, I would say.
So let's back up a little bit and let people get to know you a little bit better, because you've got kind of a strong backstory, and I'm wondering if you could sort of just start with your childhood. Tell us a little bit about your childhood and you know, kind of up to maybe high school range.
Yeah. Yeah. So I have this tattoo on my arm and a painting on my wall, and it simply says, smooth seas never made skilled sailors. And I think it rings true for all of us, because we all have things we've gone through in life, and they do become the things that help us navigate the rough seas of life.
So I was thrust into the seas early. I was given away three years old in the foster care and so I did endure a lot of heinous stuff from a lot of just crappy people really early on, things that I would wouldn't wish at my worst enemies, to be honest. And so by six years old, I was a pretty shut down emotionally kid wasn't very happy, didn't know that life could be joyous. I thought I was
a punching bag. Quite literally, no one loved me. I didn't feel like got a place that made me feel comfortable. So I navigated this up and down world for eleven years. I was adopted at fourteen by very poor, all white family, and through those years, like the developmental years, when you actually get to the point of like what you understand, what love is and care and emotion, like that's when you're developing and turning into a man. So I didn't have a lot of the foundation man was. I was
literally robbed of a lot of it. And I had to grow up between like fourteen and twenty, like really quickly, and in not the best environments. My mom was diagnosed with MSS. My dad was working all the time to be able to pay the bills because she wasn't able to, and so I just I was pretty much off my own, getting in trouble doing dumb stuff, got arrested at one point for breaking the cars with some people, just you know, dumb kid things, while also trying to find a way
to feel like I mattered. When you're giving away into foster care, the one thing that you know is like, you don't matter to your own mom and dad. My dad had left my mom before I was even born. My mom gave me away. So you start questioning, like if my own mom didn't want me, like what do I matter to this world? And so I was settling
into some weird, funky spots. And it took a lot of love from my mom, unconditionally, my adoptive mom to have me not be a statistic because if you go to any prison in America, seventy five some of the inmates are former foster kids like me, half a homeless population to spend time in foster care. I think less than one percent of us graduate from college. And so the numbers attached to me as a human because of all the foster care stuff, you could imagine we're not
very good. Yep. And so like my upbringing and reason, I work a lot in identity and it's because I had to battle that for years of my life and I didn't even really find and create my identity intel I was in my thirties.
Yeah, and so you know, we know that a lot of like really early developmental things happen, you know, zero to five and does not sound like it was not a good time for you, right, because even before your mom gave you away, it must have been terrible for her to get to a point where she's going to do that. What has the process been like for you to actually internalize at a deeper level that you are not unlovable? Oh, that's the core message there, right, I'm not lovable?
Yeah? Man, you know, two poken things in the morning. What's that look at you? Poking things in the.
Yeah, if we're going too deep at any point, you know, it's just that thing. And it's the sort of thing at least for me. And I didn't go through the same things you did, but I certainly have what I would consider, you know, like some bonding trauma. It's like I can consciously know and achieve and be good and that helps, But there come these darker moments where that sort of just tends to want to take over.
Yeah. No, it's been there.
Where that core gets really poked.
Yeah. I think there's a couple of spaces I've navigated emotionally consciously as well, and one of them is there's parts of that kind of guy that linger, and I understand them at a level now. To make them useful to me in the world. So I'll start by saying, I'm a very selfish human in a sense of I selfishly want thank you. I want to know I matter. That's myself. I desire to know that I matter. I desire to know that I've held you. I want to
thank you. Now, what I've noticed that the selfishness that becomes beneficials in the world, to my wife, to my kids, to you, to the people listening to the people I coach, is I will only get the genuine thank you when I have given everything I can that's going to help you in your life. I share my message, I tell you the depth of my heart and soul. I give to my wife, I give to my kids so they can say thank you. Like that's what works. It's a
good synergistic process. Now I didn't always do that. At first. My selfishness was I'm gonna take, take, take, I'm not going to give, give, give, and so like that's just I was trying to get what I wanted to make my life great because the world took for me. I'm going to give my retribution. That's not a good solution, right, You're not going to get what you want and for some time to be freely given to you. You don't
lesually want it. The other part of it was that was driven from a sense of I want to say, like a sense of being angry. You know you're mad, and so you believe you deserve it, You're entitled to this because of what took place, and in order for me to get past the entitlement, I had to get to a point of heavy forgiveness. And the forgiveness is an interesting journey that most people don't want to go down. They're just like I like holding onto my anger right
and they want to hold on to it. Well, you can only give out what you have inside. If you have anger inside, it comes out. If you have peace inside, he guess what comes out? So I go how do I get to peace? And I found the thing that was destroying my piece was this anger with my mom, with people, what wronged me? You know, all these things.
I sat down one time for like a month and just thought through this, thought through it, and I finally found this pathway that I think makes emotional and logical sense for forgiveness for me. And the way that I looked at it was my mom decided that at one point, me and my three siblings. Year after year, she had four kids four years in a row. She goes, I don't want these kids anymore and give us away. I'm putting shopping carts and push down hills, forced to lick
people's shoes, like really heinous stuff. Man, Yeah, And I go, why would she do this? Horrible wock? I hated her. I was so mad at her, right, And then I started like thinking through this process of forgiveness, and I go, I don't want to forgive it for that she doesn't even not even sorry for it. And then another level further, I go, what tools was she given? I looked at
my grandparents. My grandparents are not crazy, amazing people, So I go, gosh, you know this person who gave me away, Like did she actually have the tools to do it right in the first place? Was she given them? Not that she wasn't exposed, but it was she given these tools? And I started realizing, like she wasn't given these tools, and I go, why would she give her kids away? And the thing was, I go, Well, she didn't know
what that was going to happen to me. She thought that she was going to give us to an environment that would be better for us than her. And so oddly I started going, gosh, well, this person, while they didn't maliciously try to have this thing happen to me. If anything, it was a selfish thing because they wanted to be free to do their thing, but it was
and the intent wasn't to have me be hurt. And or they weren't given the tools to navigate four kids in four years, right, And so if I removed myself from that being my mom as just a woman, I oh, gosh, that's got to be crazy. Of four years, four kids, no culp mechanisms, no tools. Maybe you actually thought that doing it would be good for me because it'd be
better than you know. I'm not going to say this is the perfect answer, but I started having compassion for the person, and the compassion made me realize, like a lot of people in my life, my wife, it was a situation where she had an affair, marriage fill apart, ruined everything. We eventually remarried three years later after a lot of work on both of us, separately and simultaneously. But I started realizing, Man, she didn't step out to
maliciously hurt me. The intent wasn't to make me be angry. The intent was to find something to fulfill a need that she was missing. Again, if anything, selfishness, would I have to feel like to go through that darkness to do that, to have to hide yourself and be like, it's a dark space that she was living in My mom as well, what's it I picture my mom now she's out in the world. She watches things. I don't know how she does. I always get a little weird,
you know, butterfly effect things. But like, what's it got to be like knowing that your son played in the NFL and he speaks and travels, is an author. I'm like, and you can't talk to him. You know. It's like it's got to be a heavy weight to carry a burden that that's as heavy, And so I have a compassion for that heart. And so for me, what happened over the years is I started realizing that there wasn't this matter of me not being loved and not being like,
not mattering. It's like that was a byproduct of this anger I had because of what took place. And then I go, Okay, great, well, if I can give a compassion, I can actually genuinely forgive these people and move forward with peace in my heart. Now I can reframe the way that I get to thank you. I'm not doing them for retribution. I'm doing them to serve, because that's what wasn't done for me. So I give I given a way that wasn't given to me. But now I'm getting what I wanted in the first place.
Anyways, Yep, there's a lot in there. Did you find that part of that process also was to have compassion for that younger you?
Yes, for sure. The good thing is I didn't do a lot of crazy things so where I had to, like, you know, the small child. I mean, I didn't beat him up. I didn't blame him too much. Yeah, there's definitely some things where I go, Why was I so you know, talkative? Why did I get in trouble at time? Why'd you do this? Young aunt? And so? Yeah, there's definitely a journey there. But I wasn't as deep as
the other one, we'll call it. But I realized for me, if anything, there was a point in time where when I was like fifteen years old, I'm gonna climb out of this man. And I did, and I fought, and so as much as the younger guy, I may be mad at most of the time. Most kids, it's that fourteen to sixteen window when they start emerging, they're a little more teenage and they can go they're not kids anymore under your parents, you know guidance. Yeah, that's when
most kids go out and do dumb stuff. They're you know, teenagers just doing dumb kids stuff. Whereas for me, at fifteen, that's kind of when I locked in. I had one or two instances of doing dumb stuff, not a lot at all, but I locked in. So I'm proud actually of how that guy showed up at fifteen with a decision to be great at football and turns life into something as opposed to being pissed that he turned sixteen was driving around, you know, doing drugs and got an
accident like you know, stuff like that. So there is a nu once to where I don't have to go so deep into we'll call it forgiving my younger self.
Yeah, yep, I feel like I made it. Twenty three years of doing dumb shit, really dumb shit. I probably got another twenty five on top of it with which is the mildly dumb stuff. Based on what you just said, it sounds like you and your mother are still estranged.
Yeah. I don't know where she's at. Man. Okay, we did a TV show my wife and were going to one called Relative Race. It's like on some interesting chance, like BYU TV or something, and we were cast forward and I have to go find people. And they have skip tracers who find people. I mean they find everybody and if not, they find a death certificate, you know. And they could not find this woman, wow anywhere. They're like, no matter what we try, we cannot track her down there,
Like this doesn't happen to us. So we'd love to have on the show, but we need her and we can't find her. Yeah. Now I have a cousin. He's a loopy, being kind of guy. I don't know where he's at in the world. But at some point he reached out, maybe a year and a half half afterwards, and this conversation open up and he said something about, like, you know, she still pays attention to you. You want to talk to her, I'm happy to connect you. So he somehow has communication. I don't talk to him too
often because he's just he's a loopy guy. But I was like, Noah, man, I got no intention. I don't hate her. I wouldn't get in the phone and cuss her out or anything. But I only open doors to rooms I want to walk into. I don't have a desire to walk into that room.
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You tell a story about I think around that age of fifteen and overhearing someone in your school talking about foster children. That was sort of a galvanizing moment for you.
Oh, for sure means a catalyst for sure set the stage for this situation. I had tried football for two years. Was horrible at the game. It was not good. When you try something you're not good at, you get one up two options. Option one is you make a really good excuse for why you don't do it again, and it's believable. Right option too, as you step into it against what makes logical sense, and you just do it. Most people don't choose that. Most go and we don't
do it consciously. It's a subconscious thing. We know it feels uncomfortable, so we just oh, it wasn't the right time in the marketplace, or you know, I just didn't know I had this solution here. I couldn't find any help. I didn't have the finances right. We make excuses that people will buy into so we can go to sleep at night and feel good. But the little voice in our head knows. Now, fifteen years old, I had this
moment where I was doing football and I go. You know, I don't got the cleats these kids have because we're poor. My mom is sick. I'm a foster kid. Foster kids don't get anything good for our lives. I don't even know any great foster kids, literally knew none. I don't even know other foster kids besides my siblings. And so you're just like, that's the life of foster kid. That's what I'm supposed to do in life, you know, that's
my mark. And so I'm in this classroom and I had had, you know, two years of playing football and realized I wasn't good and that was my excuse. My mom had been diagnosed at MS, and so I was just coming to class checked out, like I literally like sleeping in class. And as these two girls in class, I do not know their names. I don't know who they are. I couldn't go back. I know the classroom though, and I know the teacher, mister Howell. We share the
same birthday. And in the back right corner, I'm sitting there and there's two girls on this love seat. The one girl says to the other girl, a simple statement that was an amazing gift to me. She says. The reason I'm so bad because I'm in foster care. And it faced value it's not that big of a deal. However, for me, I got to hear out loud the excuse that I was giving myself inside for why I wasn't
doing well, and oh man, it felt weird. I was like, gosh it, and I'm seriously remember fifteen, going, is that the reason I'm going to be like a bad guy or a criminal or whatever? It is because of this thing that happened to me that I had no control over. Like it sounded stupid. The reason I'm bad is because I was in foster care. Like, that's not a good enough reason in my head. So I remember it sat on me all day long, and I kid you not,
this genuine situation transpired. I go home. When I get to my house that day, I'm sitting in a room. It's my bedroom. I have like this mirror that, if you can call it, it's like at the top of my room, and I'm sitting there going this is like a weird little kind of situation that I look myself in the pupils and it just gets to this point of culmination. I go, Anthony, You're going to be great that was it, Anthony, You're going to be great. I
didn't even know what great was gonna be. I didn't know. I I just told myself this a couple of times. I can still picture the room right and it was very weird. But that moment was like this really interesting turning point for me, because overnight I decided I want to be great at football. I'm gonna find out what it takes. I started watching, like what is great football players doing. It was just a moment where I just snapped out of it, and then from that point on
I turned into a completely different human. It was the effort. It was the energy, not so much that I turned into by built into a different human. The reps to the efforts, to the hard stuff I did. And the more I did it, the better I got, and the better I got. And then all of a sudden, it wasn't this magical thing that all of a sudden I'm great, But over time it became this thing where I now created this different Identitay, that wasn't the one of the
foster kid. It was the guy who was a great athlete, who was faster, It was stronger. I had this mentality and it's what I call a dark work mentality because what I did in that wind do I call dark work, unseen, un sexy, ridiculed, misunderstood. But it was this work to be a great football player. So when I got on that football field, I had this mentality of I've done too much work in the dark to lose in the light.
It's my football, it's my tackle, it's my touchdown. And that was the thing that was a catalyst, will call it to a greater football career, stepping into more, being better, you know, just all these different climb ups, But it all started there, and it started with me making a decision going, I don't want to be what I in my head see myself to be. I want to be better, and in order to be better, I have to do
better things. Period, out of character, not normal, But I did those things, and when I did them, I became that person.
It's a remarkable story in a lot of ways, and I have a few questions sort of to pull out from them.
You know.
The first is you talk about saying that when people try something and they're not good at it, they come up with subconscious reasons to quit doing it right or they step into it and You've talked on your short form podcast a little bit about your son being in a moment kind of like this, where you know he's not really fully leaning into the things he needs to do to be a great football player. And my question is,
I think you're absolutely right. There are times that we want to do something and we're not good at it, and so we talk ourselves out of it. There's also the case where not everything that we try is the right thing for us, true, And I'm just curious how you think about trying to delineate those things, because I find that to be a real thing of discernment, right, because we do want to apply ourselves in areas that
we're likely to succeed, right. I mean, for me to apply myself to being an NBA basketball player would be a foolhardy endeavor. Right now, I probably could apply my if I loved the game of basketball, to being a really good basketball player. But knowing, particularly given that that process of giving up is almost subconscious, right, we talk ourselves out of it. I'm thinking of an example completely different, but my dad passed in February, and we never had
a very close relationship. He was just kind of an island under himself, and it was very difficult to have any meaningful conversation. But I remember multiple times where I'd be like, all right, we're gonna play golf this weekend and I'm going to like go deeper with him and I'm going to connect and I'm gonna and I would get there and it would vanish and I would be like, I don't even want to. The reality was I just didn't think it was possible. So my defenses came in
and said, I don't even want it, right. So that's that subconscious process you're talking about where because we're not good at it, we don't think we can succeed, we just suddenly talk ourselves out of it without even knowing it. But that discernment, how do you think about that?
That? Those are two different pieces, right, because one is the one's an interesting dynamic of the dad because I did the same thing. Like there's moments where I'm doing something, I'm watching my kid and I go, gosh, I want to celebrate. I can't wait to celebrate with them, and then I get off the field and I don't do
that thing. I give them a high five, good job, but in my head, I want to pick them up and spin them around, you know, like a you know, and so like, yeah, it may be weird for them, right, but I don't do the action. I go want to do the action, you know, So I can gather that one for sure. And I think there is something to the desire of not having rejection as too while make a statement or failure will call it as to why I won't do that thing. So if we feel will
be rejected or feel we're fail we will protect. I think there's an ego part of us we have to protect or we do protect, and the ego doesn't want to feel the shame the embarrassment, so it'll avoid actions that give us the feeling of shame or embarrassments. That's one piece of it. Then on the other side, you're talking about which I gathered it this way. It's like working towards something or choosing to work towards something and going like when is it too much? When should I
leave this relationship? When should I stop and sell this business, or's get out of the business. When should I quit this job? Right? And so we start to contemplate, and we give ourselves decisions and we talk to ourselves that singer would say it's the untethered soul, right, And so we go back and forth these dynamics in our head. And what I've noticed is whenever I've had situations where I've had to go, this isn't the right thing, it's
because I didn't set the destination. Typically somebody else did. So I saw something I compared myself somewhere somebody said I should, and that was the reason I set that destination. And then I'm going towards it. And I'm really only
gonna be happy when I get it right. I'm just gonna be happy when I arrived at that place because they said it's going to be great when you get there, and you get there and you go, oh, this is it, you know, Like I got to the top of the sport in the world football, I got to the NFL. Wasn't an All Star, wasn't you know, wasn't this guy. Was just a guy played three years and got hurt my third year and was a battle. Wasn't a name
you even no period. But when I got there, it gave me this realization of like, ah, this whole fame thing. It's kind of like you watch the guys that are famous, they don't look happy, bro, They're not all joyous. There are some obviously they're happy. They don't get me wrong with it' school. But I would see more of like a stress and an anxiety to stay and be there and do the thing right. And I'm not saying you shouldn't want that. There are some guys that handle it amazingly,
and they do phenomenal. It's beautiful to watch them handle that, right. I would love to be in their shoes, we'll call it. But then you started having just a different way of understanding what the fame and the money and all the notoriety does, and it's like, well do I want that? And also how do you treat people when you have that? Like in the world I live now of the speaker,
the coach, the author. I love that I'm able to enter this world having been in a different world and seeing what it's like to really be known, right, because there's some people I see get known and they or they do a lot. They're doing the most I call it. You know, they got to have like their entourage with them. It's like, dude, you just talk on a stage. Man.
The only people that know you're the ones that are inside of this group of people that you know, you're not the guy, you're not the girl, but it's it's good. But it's your moment to it's your super Bowl, and I'm not knocking that, but I get the mentality around that.
I get what they're fighting for. And then what I've realized is the ones who are the most peaceful in the NFL when I saw him are the ones at an amazing family, the people that can go home to and they can quiet, they can hang out, They're just go out and take the dog for a walk. Can you go take the trash to the sidewalk? You know
those kind of people. There's a balance of like, that's all good out there, but the game will end, the clock will take zero, you'll come home from practice and the majority of your life will be lived in a different space. Is there peace there? That's one piece of it I look at, And so there's one way where I go like, if that's what you're fighting for, be aware of what that really looks with the Jim Carrey says, I hope I wish everyone could be rich and famous.
They can understand it's not what you think it is. Right, There's that part of it now's another part of it where I think there is the necessary need for discernment to go, am I doing this properly? There are things that we also do choose, it's my choice. I want to do this thing. And then what I'm doing is I'm setting a destination. And I think the problem is is people fall in love with the destination, not the
day they set. This is what I'm going to get and I want this, and they wake up every day I'm happy for not being there. And so what I do in life is I go where do I want to go? Cool? That's going to depict the actions I take. But my intention is to have a really cool day. Now, if I can make a day that has steps that lead me there, I'm in a beautiful place because I'll eventually get there. If I just work and I love to work and I love the things I'm doing, I'm
gonna get to that place. There are gonna be days that sucks sometimes part of the journey, right, But then I'm just I'm enjoying the process. And at some point in time, because I'm not married to the outcome, I can make it as certain choice and go, is this really gonna get me there? I just want to help people. Okay, well, I'm telling myself this has to be the way I help people. But what if that's not the way I help people? What if I could do it this way.
So I'm open to making a change because I'm gonna keep doing things in my day, but I love my day, and I'll just change the destination. And then I'm not feeling guilty or bad because I told someone I'm gonna do this and I change to this and they go, see, you're incongruent. I don't promise the outcome of what my life's gonna be. I just say I'm gonna live every day amazing. I'm gonna serve people. I'm gonna show up and be transparent and honest and open. I'm gonna love
my wife and love my kids. I'm goa have plans to go in this direction to make them impact in the world. And I do have goals. I set things I want to work towards, but I can move the target. And so because of the way that I'm choosing to live in the here and the now and the way I choose to live here, I love my days and because I love the days they're heading in a good direction. Little by little, I can do the things that get me to a point where I end up somewhere amazing.
But I also realize this, at some point the clock tips zero, the game will end. There'll be something I accomplish, And if I love the preparation, if I love the journey there, it's fine. But I'm gonna have to come home with my wife and my kids. And I love come home my wife and my kids, because I does stuff every single day to make this amazing. And that's kind of the way I look at what my choice is, what I go towards, how I move, and so for me,
it's more of this. I want to spend my days doing things that are phenomenal, and I enjoy them with great people like yourself, knowing they're heading in a good direction. But I'm okay to change the destination if need be.
I love all that because one of the things I've thought a lot about and weaves its way into many many of these conversations, is how do you be a person that has ambition and wants to grow and wants to change and wants to accomplish things and be a person who can enjoy where you actually are right, because those things, if we're not careful, can be very much at odds with each other. Right, you can be in
that destination mindset all the time. It's always got to be more and more and more different, different, different, And you've got the ambition piece figured out, but you don't have the day to day contentment piece. Right when you're in that mindset, whatever destination you hit, you'll be like, well, that's nice, and then you just set your eyes on the next one, which is not a bad thing, not always. But your point is that you said this in a
recent episode. The question comes if winning is just a beginning?
Right?
When I win, I then just set another goal and keep going. Right, If winning is just a beginning, when do you smell the roses? And you are like, I think you smell them all along the way, all the way, you know, And I think that's a really important point. And it gets to trying to love the process, trying to love where you are, what you're doing, and not being so fixed on what is going to happen. And that takes a fair amount of at least in my case,
a fair amount of working, particularly with my fears. Yeah, because right, fear comes up and goes, well, if I don't get that, what's going to happen, you know, and that tends to take away the piece, right, it tends to take away.
The peace except for sure for me the times I've ever thought through that process, which I have before is the fear of the judgement or letting people down. And when I look at it all, so I go, well, I just have to ask myself, like Pop always say, if you gave your all and lost, like you didn't lose, like you had a loss on the board, but like if you gave everything you had and you know, you give everything you had and it didn't come in your favor, like that just was the way that Chips felt, you
don't have to feel so bad. Well, if you lose that game and you know you kept some underneath and you reserve some of the tank, you have reason to feel bad or is regret there? And so yeah, I get the idea of of kind of navigating that whole you know, flow of like the energy what I'm giving. But if I don't accomplish it, it's usually I've usually
give my all to it. Right, some of the fears that I will have in that is going to be based on whether or not I made to prompt somebody or said I was going to do it and I didn't do it, or I didn't follow through, I don't get that done, or I didn't communicate why I chose
a different direction. And then when I remove the whole thought of that and the judgment of other people, the end of the day, I just want to be happy and make me and the people that matter to me happy, and the world we're always basing our self worth off of how many people like us or view us or follow us, right, that's kind of the norm nowadays. I
don't have that built into me. I genuinely care about the people who care about me, my wife, my kids, and so the only time I will have a feeling like that is like if I let them down or something goes off there. Now, there are promises of the world, but I think one of the things that I also outside of fear. It's like also framing for me when we talk about doing the hard things and the fear of it. I try to frame my day in a way that makes it enjoyable by going, hey, there's things
I do not want to do right. I don't feel like filming thirty five videos if I got to film some crazy amount for a course, right. Maybe there's days I don't feel like traveling out and talking to these people. There's days I wake up on speech that they're going to pay me twenty five thousand to be there, and I go, I really don't want to do this. I've
had that moment. Not often. It's thankful, but there's days I go, I'm just tired or been traveling a lot, or my wife and I are, you know, kind of a little mech And then I have to frame this is my go to. I don't fear messing up on stage. I don't fear not following through in something it's not what I do. I try to frame it again, because my framing is usually at this moment on me, how do I feel? What am I looking at? What's going
on with Anthony? And then when I go, dude, that's not serving anybody, and that's kind of selfish at other people, I go, gosh, I what I feel like if I was in the audience watching me and you knew I wasn't into it, I'd be a horrible feeling for that person have to watch me. I go, I don't have the luxury of not giving my all to the speech because I could hurt somebody's life out there or at
least not given what they deserve. Right Or if I show up in this day and I you know, my wife and I are something going on about me, it's about the kids, or about what she needs. My wife will ask me to do things that I don't want to do all the time because that's how life works. And now as opposed to battling and being angry at her and I want to do this, I will actively try and find something in the task that is joyful. I just do and it's an active framing for me.
Same thing and work. If I don't want to film those videos, I go I don't want to film as a go but my team needs them. I love that my team has work to do, that they have a job, and if I don't do my job, they don't have a job. And also someone's gonna see these They're gonna be there in the middle of the night, you know, some other country possibly having a really bad day, and the feed says a base on what they've been searching for, this is the right video for them, and they're going
to see it. If I'm not alive in that video. If I'm not given in that video, they're going to be robbed of a moment they could actually change your life with. So, while I don't want to do it, ain't about Anthony right now. It's about where am I showing up to give. And so in those moments when I don't feel like I want to give the energy you're like, it's hard to fall in love with today,
I would say, I just reframe. And the more I can reframe in the moment, once the morning becomes now my set point to reframe and I have to battle my mind as much. So over the years, I've got better at like immediately framing it in a certain way to where I start my day and I go, hey, I can't wait. I got mister Zimmrov the PODCASM, I'll get to hang out this God, I got this thing
going on. My days will be stacked, typically from like eight am until two to forty five pm, stacked of stuff, and my best friend goes, Dude, your schedule makes me want to throw up. There's just so much stuff you do. And my wife goes, why do you do it to yourself? Make yourself work all day? And I go, You guys don't get it. I enjoy my work. It's like fun to me. They go, how could be fun to be doing that? I go, because I frame it that way.
I look at the things, and I choose the things I want to say yes to, and when I do say yes to it, I say yes to it again, even if I wake up and don't want to. But I frame it in a way of going, wouldn't it suck for Eric to get in this podcast? And you could tell it I want to be here? Like what kind of feeling would that be? And the person that listens to this to feel that energy? Also, I frame it outside of me. The fear disappears, and now the
service comes in. And when you give, usually when you're giving, you feel pretty good.
That's such a fundamental point around this center and everything around how we feel and what we want. You know, I got sober in twelve step programs. And there was a line in the AA Big Book that basically said, you know, selfishness, self centeredness that we think is the root of our problem. And it talked about living in bondage to ourselves, and that is a phrase that resonates so deeply with me because I know that when all I'm thinking about is me and what I want, it
is like being enslaved to myself. It's an awful feeling. It doesn't feel good, and it's the most natural and easy thing in the world to do. It doesn't turn out well for me. It's not a life well lived. And so there is sort of that reframing process. Are there times where you reframe and you're still like, I fucking don't feel like doing this. Oh yeah, of course, oh okay, yeah, and then you just do it right because.
You know you do. It's it's the discipline. I'm not magical in like some special human in a sense of like that doesn't happened to me. I just go, hey, you know what, Hey, buck up because in football, we're at the game. You don't get to have that, which means suck it up and lean in. You need to be great for twenty minutes, great for thirty minutes. Yeah, And usually I want I need to be great for fifteen. And I'm gonna tell you why fifteen When I get into a time and I don't want to be in
that time frame. Right. What essentially we are doing is we're thinking about the feeling of the future, but we're not realizing it's really just a present feeling. So I go, gosh, I got an hour of this. If you start the hour and your head is already doing that, you're gonna drag thro the hour. You're gonna look at the clock every five minutes. It's gonna look like you're gonna think it's five. It's two minutes. You know, it's like, when is this gonna be over? And I go, let me
just for fifteen minutes. Just I want to be great. I want to have fun, like have fun, have fun, have fun. So I tell myself that and I hop in and so I'm just for the first fifteen, which I don't check the clock at it's fifteen. I'm trying to feel good about it, and I try to do the things to be great, to muster from myself whatever I have to unconsciously bring joy to it. Funny enough that happens in fifteen turns into fifteen minutes. You melt
away into whatever the energy was you started with. And so I intentionally tell myself a fifteen minutes a great, and just be fifteen minutes a great. Let's go, and I may have to do it a couple of times that day, because some days suck, you know, I've my wife or the kids are acting up and doing some
great stuff with mawhare. I'm just something happened at work, and I got to navigate this stupid headache, you know, bad email I got, and I got to tell myself this, and I muster it up and I lean in to be a pro, and usually it settles itself out because what also happens is your brain is holding on to that thing that you're stressing off of, and you're trying to with this new thing in there, but you haven't
let go of this stressful thought. So while that takes place and it's holding space, this other one can't fit. There's just tension there. So when I tell myself fifty minutes a great, what I'm actually doing is I'm not saying, don't think about this thing, Anthony, and try to put this in and gosh, I don't want you, I don't want to do this right. I try to put all my focus on this thing here, and what happens is that one falls out of my mind. Yep, And now
I don't have the tension. Now it's just I'm enjoying this. Now the hour concludes, that leaves my mind. All this jumps back in pretty quick. It's like, oh that thing's it right, But at least I killed this hour because I refocus. It's like when you have kids and you tell them, hey, stop playing video games. All they're thinking about is not playing video games. But they're still thinking about video games as opposed to going a go outside
and shoot a hundred basketballs. I want you to try to get, you know, fifty percent of your shots to go in. Well, they go out there, they shoot it. They're having funds when I get one hundred shots and get fifty in and Dad, I got forty four, I got forty five, I got fifty, I got sixty Dad, Right, yep, they're no longer thinking about the video games. Yeah, it's not even their head. They're having fun now doing something else.
And so that simple psychological trigger done for yourself elicits the same result.
That makes so much sense. I say on this show a lot. Sometimes you can't think your way into right action. You have to act your way into right thinking.
Right like, you just have to do the thing.
And very often once you get doing the thing, the motivation and the desire to do it comes.
Along with it. You know.
There's so many times I have to do that me too.
Man, I just tend to be a person with sort of a lower mood system. It just seems to be the way I'm wired up. But I've learned to work with it, you know, I've learned to work with it in a way that says, you know, okay, you don't feel like it just gets started, and good things kind of come from that getting started, you know, along the same line you say, somewhere at this point in my life, my identity is not tied to what I create. It's
tied to my efforts to create. And I really love that idea of like you're tying what you feel good or bad about to what is completely in your control.
Yeah, that's it, because all you can do, man, literally, all you can control is how you respond on things. But people know this. This is not new information. It's not some novel idea. It's just not always practiced. We talk about it, we don't practice it. But yeah, who I am is tied to what I choose to do and how I choose to control. It's not tied to the thing that you say about me. It's not tied to the outcome of whatever took place. Like when people
ask who I am, I really even liked it. For a lot of years, I didn't even like telling him I played in the NFL. I guess it was a part of it. But I'm not that thing I did because that thing, it will consume me. It's kind of like this. In my book, I talk about the tree, and most people assume that we are the fruit of the tree. I'm the fruit, and this is why I
am right. The career, the job, the relationship, and if that thing falls off, and you know, the fruit hits the ground because that thing fall apart or I lost the job, lost the career, lost the guy, I lost the girl. I believe it's who I am. Rotten. I feel like that piece of fruit. I'd rot up and I die. And that's how I felt with football at first, in fact, and so when you feel like that, you just that's what's in you, and what comes out of you is rottenness. And then I realized, like, wait, we've
never been the fruit. We've always been the tree. We've always been the thing that created those things in life. And so if I go back to tending to the thing that creates the things great things get created, And so I'm vastly more identifying myself with the person who's taking care of the tree, the efforts, the actions what I do. Am I in the right soil and environment? Am I around the right people? Am I cutting the news out right? Am I pruning branches that don't belong?
Am I getting rid of parts of my life that are pulling other ones away or taking attention from those ones? Right? Maybe it's cutting a business off, or stopping some action, or getting rid of a friend that doesn't fit in where my future is going to go?
You know?
Am I making sure I'm taking care of the body of the tree? My health? That could I be here longevity wise? These little things, when I'm doing them, that's who I am. That's what I'm doing every day. I am not the NFL. I am not a ninja warrior. I'm not the speaker. I'm not the coach. Maybe that day, if I'm on stage for an hour, that better be who I am, right, But the expression of who I am on a daily basis is the actions I'm taking.
When my clock goes often and I say I'm a good dad a good dad isn't like a single thing. It's the moments that you put into the day of being a good dad. Like I do a morning routine my son every morning, did it this morning. That's what a good dad is. It's not this pinnacle trophy. It's the daily right And so for me, it's what am I doing? And if I'm doing the things or in line with that, I'm great. And that's all I choose to do.
Yeah, you say somewhere every single day you're being someone and that someone is also becoming someone. It's a continuous, simultaneous cycle that has always been and will always be present within you. It shows up in your big and consistent actions on a daily basis. So who are you being and becoming right now?
Anthony? I am being a good dad, a good husband, a good business owner. Like I'm in like really in the Background'm seeing these little things tick up from my team going through things of We have a bunch of people we serve that are speakers that want to be on stage serving people, and I have a really good system I teach them with and I also work with the Amazons of the world. Right, So my being every day is am I making sure I communicate at a pace that they need. Am I serving where I'm supposed
to it? Am I being gracious when people need it from me? And as you do that, you become the things you do because you are what you do. And so for me, the cool thing is not the best thing sometimes also is you can be somebody different today and become somebody different tomorrow. Right If I decide to have that one single choice or decision that's kind of off kilter, it's not in line with being gracious, genuine, godly, then I'm falling away. You never arrive at a place,
in my opinion, you're always being every day. You have actions, you have habits, you things you do and they will become in a good direction or become in a bad direction. And so my goal is every day to make sure I'm doing things that are in line with the person from yesterday. I'm assuming that yesterday was a good man and he was doing the right things. And for me, I'm stacking days like that. But I do things that
are right. And a lot of my works that whole idea of dark work, you know, work in the dark, secret win the light. But it's also the biblical aspect of what you do in the dark will also come to the light. I think that is the embodiment of the statement who you are being is who you become, meaning what you do in the dark will come to the light. There are no conversations, there's no things like no one could walk into my house or my life anywhere and go, oh, you think you're great, but I
know this about you. I lived my life so clean and so down then, because I never want that moment to happen. I never want that moment to happen for my children at any point in time. I never want to have that moment happen when I step in front of my God later on in life. And so my active being is always in line with who I choose to become in the future, which is a good dad, a good husband, a good teacher, coach speak or whatever it might be. But those are daily things I do.
And here's the thing. In the beginning, like when I was leaving, you know, it's in that window of my dark times post I talked about it, but post NFL, that wasn't the guy I was. I was not the best human. I wasn't a good father, I wasn't a good husband, I wasn't a great business owner, but that kind of understanding those moments and me desiring to be someone whoknew I started doing different things being better to become better, and so now it's staying in that same flow.
And it was hard at first, just as you know you navigated a diction, like it's hard at first, right, and it there's days where it's harder than others, even way beyond it. But after a while you're get into such a good flow and you love the person you become, and you have this genuine joy for you and you'll want to let yourself down that it's hard not to
do those things. It's hard and beginning that eventually it's hard not to do it, and it becomes what I call effortless effort, like you're giving the effort, right, but it just feels the effortless borderline, and people go, how are you So? I'm not. I didn't wake up today like that. I've just been building into that over time, the same way you can. It's hard at first, eventually it's hard not to do. Yeah.
I love that idea of effortless effort. I'm doing this project on a great spiritual book called the Dowdy Ching, and so much of that book is focused on that very idea that the effortless effort, you know, which sounds like a paradox, but there is a way in which it is possible, you know. And some of this, I think is what you're getting at with identity, right, is that at a certain point your actions are going to
flow out of your identity. Right, If your identity, as you've said, is to be all these different things, then more effortlessly those positive things emerge out of that.
Yeah, it really is, because we already in this current moment, are operating from an identity that feels effortless. You may not think it, but you are. Essentially the identity is who you are when you're not thinking about who you are. T I frame it. It's your instinctual, natural daily flow.
We have habits, we have action enough. For some people, they're pretty low level, you know, they drag together bed and they they kind of put themselves around like there's drag butt everywhere, right, But for them it's it's borderline emotionally effortless. They just do that and the outcome kind of sucks. And for some people, you go, how do you get done? And in a single day what it
takes me a week to do. And an interesting thing is emotionally and effort wise, it feels the same for both people, but one person has such a high output. And I go, what's just like lifting weights. If I go into the weight room and I can't lift one hundred pounds because I'm too weak and I can't lift it right, well, over time, if I keep going to the weight room, I get stronger. I get stronger, I get stronger, and one day one hundred pounds I'm warming
up with. Now, if you didn't go to the weight room and you tried one hundred pounds, couldn't lift it, and you look at you go, this person's you're great. How'd you do it? You must have been born like this. No, I just stayed in the weight room. You left the weight room. I stayed here and I built up to one hundred toere now, yes that's my warm up weight. And so all you're looking as this person going like it feels the same for me to move one hundred pounds,
that's for you to move five pounds. I just kept building my strength, yep, yep.
And I think that's such a key learning and insight, which is because we often will suddenly compare ourselves with somebody who is way ahead of us and assume that they're there because there's something very different about who they are, and in a way there is in that they've grown
an identity over time. But it's this fixed versus growth mindset. Right, I can't lift one hundred pounds, so I'm weak and I'll never be able to lift one hundred pounds versus well, if I actually want to lift one hundred pounds, there's a path there, Right, I'm going to have to figure out the intelligent path for me. And you know, if I want to get stronger, it's not going to be the same path that Anthony's going to take because you and I have very different body types. I mean all
that kind of stuff. But there's always a road forward there.
Yeah, that's a cool thing. There always is a road forward that This is a matter are you willing to take it? Yeah? That I think becomes the age old thing that people need to uncover is if you want something more, you have to become somebody more. And becoming
someone more it is an interesting journey. It is difficult, it is hard, but it's so rewarding when you do it, because the cool thing is you never go back, and it in fact feels just as easy to live that life, if not easier than it does to live your current life of mediocrity. Yeah, but you have to go through a phase of the hardships and the difficulty. But most aren't willing to do it.
Is there something you can point to that makes people more likely to be able to do that, to choose to upgrade their identity, to upgrade their life versus the people who don't choose that, Because on some level, everybody has some degree of wanting to self actualize and be better and right, So that's there. But some people are much more able to make it happen than other people. And I'm always curious. It's the same question I ask myself all the time, like why do some people get
sober and others don't. I don't know that there's a really good one answer, right, But I'm curious if there's any things you've seen or things that make people more likely or give people a better chance.
I think there's like a wonder between like faith and fear. So some people will fear something so much they want to run away from it right. It's the run away from pain, run towards a pleasure kind of thing. And this is interesting story I heard for a moment. It was golfing. I can't think of her name, which tell me a story about this guy goes up to a farmer. The farmer he's always kind of get directions to the farmer, and the farmer's on this you know little thing.
Here.
Guy needs to get to the gas station. He has a dog next to him, and he walks up to him, Hey, sir, how do I get to the corner store?
Oh?
He kind of hears this noise and doesn't know where it comes from. And a farmer goes, so you're gonna go down this road right here making let Oh. The guy goes, hold on, do you hear that noise? He goes, yeah, what what noise? It was that kind of like moaning thing, goes that's the dog goes, well, why is the dog making the noise? All he's sitting on a nail, So why doesn't he move? He goes it don't hurt him bad enough. And so a lot of people are living
in a life where they just won't move. They'll complain, they'll moan and groan, but it doesn't hurt them bad enough. And so I think one of the things is like when the fear or the pain gets enough, we move. For most people, they'll finally move. And that's what I think is a catalyst. For me. It was I was at foster kid and I go, I don't want to experience this because most people go and how'd you believe that you're going to become an NFL athlete? Like, oh,
I didn't believe that? Are you kidding me? As a foster kid. Here's what I did believe. I had a belief. I believed if nothing changed the place I was going, I didn't want to end up. That was the belief was that was the genuine fifteen years old I'm like, I don't want to go at as trains heading. That
was a belief. The other side of it, as you start looking at the guys like the Michael Phelps and Kobe Bryant's and these people that are like they will just subject themselves to years of torture, and you go, how do you do that? Faith? Faith is believing in the unseen, and when you believe in the unseen, that that depth, you'll sacrifice for it. That's why people will as athletes or as business owners, they'll create something. Everybody goes, you're crazy. What do you want to go to the moon?
You want to go to space? Elon, what are you talking about? He had this faith was possible that you couldn't see what he could see, and the belief drives your actions in ways that the regular world would say you're a crazy person, and then so lo and behold they make it right. So I think there's a part
where what drives you. There's going to be a fear or a pain that you finally becomes enough and you get out of that you want to run away from it, or it's a faith that is a belief beyond what people can see, that you will subject yourself to craziness to accomplish.
That makes sense. It's sort of the being pushed or being pulled kind of idea. Right, You're being pushed by your pain or you're being pulled by a vision. It's two ways, and my experience is a blend of those energies is kind of necessary, you know. It's like I don't seem to get by on just one of them, although the further I get, the better my life gets. The more I have to rely on the being pulled right because the pushing doesn't work as well because things are pretty good.
Yeah, I get it. That's the other hard part too, is you go, well, is it worth to sacrifice when things are pretty good? And then my brain goes to is it going to be this good in the future? Yeah, and I go the future, Anthony. I've always noticed he arise at a situation that is an opportunity and either has what he needs for or he doesn't. And then I go back to the fall in love with the day. Can I keep lifting the same weight or do I need to continuously trying to get stronger because you can
maintain the same strength. At some point, I may be asked to go run a race or do something, and if I haven't been preparing for that strength wise, and I'm not able to compete properly. Yep. Like I get asked to go play flag football every once in a while. I'm forty this year and these guys are you on twenty five years? Hey, Choce, you want to come play flag football? And I go, gosh. There were times they'd ask I'd be like, I can't. I haven't been training
for it. I've not been lifting and running at all. Whereas I got a call two days ago he's like, hey, can you come out here and you know, September seventeenth and come come run with the guys. I'm like, yeah, because I've been lifting and preparing for it. Did I know I was preparing for that? No, But I've been getting it in. I'm ready for that moment when it comes.
Life's the same way. There'll be an opportunity that comes, and if I have the financials, or if I have the time, or I have the note to Riet, or I have the team and infrastructure, I can take advantage of it. But it's only because I've been consistently building for that I get normalized to growing my strength over time, if we call it.
Yeah, there's a meditation teacher that I've had who says, practice when you can for the times you can't, meaning like, build this muscle of relating to your experience in a particular way while it's easier, because the day will come where you're forced to relate to something very very difficult, and you know, if you haven't been preparing, you're not going to have what you need at that moment.
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. This is that what I'm saying, Yeah, you won't have what you need when you need yep, yep.
So all right, final question, what is a fear you're currently trying to overcome right now?
A fear I'm trying to overcome? Oh I got one. I'm in a situation of scaling a business. The way I look at scaling means you're doing pretty well. Things are good at the system level. They are, but then the scale means you take on more responsibility, more goes out. The opportunity is high, but the financial risk with is a team risk with there's more moving parts you have to keep in place to reach that level. So we have like this speaking coaching business that we're like, we
can scale. We can add more revenue or sorry, add more ad spend to generate more calls. It'll add more revenue, but that means more coaches. That means more teaching. That means more people who experience this thing in a good or bad way. I can have one hundred new people join, but if one hundred people join and a hundred hate it, that's not a good join, right, So how to make you all have an amazing experience? And so there's a fear going I want to do, I want to add spend.
Can I keep this level of income and feel good about it? And I go, yeah, I would, But why am I staying there? Is it because I'm comfortable? Is it because it's And I realize it's because there's a fear of going further and you know, putting more money out maybe it doesn't work out, or people getting bothered or you know, not having a great experience, or me looking bad or hurting people's lives because they invested a
level and we don't deliver. And I go, that's not a reason not to scale, It's a reason to scale because it allows me to go. I'm being faced with an opportunity, opportunity to improve myself, to improve my team. And here's what most people don't see that I try to see. There's a level beyond that level. There's one beyond that that I can't see that's going to be so amazing and so beautiful. But if I don't get to this next level and push into it, I'll never
even know that one exists. It'll pass me by. And so that's the one I'm afraid of missing out on. So I go, we got to scale. So when I say these things are my team's setting messages back and forth in the background, that's an immediate discussion, like do we double the ad spend, which means double the calls, double the team for sales conversations and and onboarding and I got to bring more people in. There's a big conversation there, and I go, let's do it. Yeah, it's
gonna be hard. We know it's going to be hard, but like you said, we go in with the obviously understanding it's inevitably going to be difficult. It'll force me to grow, which I'm looking forward to. It won't be beautiful, but I'm going to love the day. I'm gonna enjoy the process. I'm nto the steps. I'm gonna enjoy all of it, even if it's not fun now, because I know it'll deliver something greater later beautiful.
Well, Anthony, thanks so much for coming on. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I enjoy your work. We'll have links in the show notes to where people can find your work, your podcast, your book, all that good stuff. So thank you so much for coming on.
Pleasure, thanks for having me.
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