How to Practice Gratitude for Year-Round Benefits

of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, creative effort to make a life worth living.

This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Hello everyone, I am doing the intro this week instead of Christopher because this is a special episode of the one You Feed podcast. We've done these in the past, and what we do is talk to some of our favorite people about one single topic. And the topic we're

going to explore in this episode is gratitude. For those of you in the States, you know, it's Thanksgiving week at least if you're listening to this right when it comes out, So gratitude is top of mind for many of us. But even more than that, this topic is really important because it is one of the most impactful practices that we can use to meaningfully improve the way we experience our lives. But very often we struggle to make it a regular practice. So why is that and

what can we do about it? And why should we try or even care. I'll explore these questions and more with our guests Martha beck A, J Jacobs, Dr. Nicole Lapera, Susan Kine, and Corey Allen. I really hope you enjoy it. But before we dive in, I wanted to share another thing that we've started doing with listeners. I'm sending a couple of text messages for each podcast episode with positive reminders about what's discussed and invitations to apply the wisdom

in your own life. It's free, and listeners who are part of the program have told me that these texts really help pull them out of autopilot and help them to reconnect with what's important. When you get a text from me during your day to day life, it's one more thing that helps you further bridge the gap between what you know and what you do. They're positive messages when you need them from me to you. So if you'd like to hear from me a few times week via text, go to one you feed dot net slash

text and sign up for free. Now onto this special episode all about gratitude. Up first on the Gratitude episode from the Holistic Psychologist dot com, Dr Nicole Lepera, What does gratitude mean to you? I think the most simple definition that I like to offer for gratitude is acknowledgement of what is being I think fully present, and I'm

being very intentional about adding this step in. I think a lot of times when we think of gratitude's right feeling grateful, appreciative or some version of appreciation for something we have or and or receiving the appreciation from someone or something for some aspect of us. I think what is really important in my opinion to incorporate into the definition of gratitude is that presence around what is not in judgment, not in criticism, around just the pure objectivity

of what is present, here and now. And the reason why I'm emphasizing that in particulars so many of us aren't living in the present moment. We're recycling past moments, past trauma that lives in our mind and body, and that is coloring our experience, our interpretation of what may or may not be present, or limitations that may or may not be here, right here, right now. However, again

it's a remnant of our past. So grounding ourselves in the present moment objectively around what is and then allowing us to expand into that feeling of appreciation, I think is how I operationally kind of talk about the embodiment of the practice of gratitude, which I believe is foundationally important and healing. So what are some of the practices

for gratitude that you most recommend for people? I think there's a lot of different ways we can practice that acknowledgement, Just again highlighting the first aspect of that which is becoming conscious even to the present moment, to what is here available you know what the reality of it is.

And that happens when we activate our conscious awareness, when we tune into not the stories in our mind, not to rehashing things that happened weeks ago, years ago, not to worrying about tomorrow, or most of us spend our time to be grounded and present to what is to turning our focus onto our physical body, to extending it out into the external environment, seeing for ourselves things that are present here and now. That is how we become available into what is here and now. And then, of course,

if we want to add in the appreciation. People have had success with journaling, listing things that we're grateful for. For me, even just acknowledging its presence can be so incredibly healing for all of us that are coloring the present moment with our past experiences, because so many of us are filtering out the reality of what's here based again because of those past filters that we've been applying.

So that means becoming active, becoming present, maybe even verbally stating for ourselves or writing in the notebook things that are present in each given moment, and that can help us activate that feeling of appreciation because appreciation can only happen if we're aware of something that is there. Well, that's interesting because normally gratitude, the way it is done

is very often not a present moment thing. I'm grateful for the coffee I had this morning, I'm grateful for the herons I saw land on the lake this afternoon. Where what you're saying is coming present. So is it your belief that if we were to be able to come to the present moment without the heavy conditioning of the past, without everything else that in that contacting the present moment as it is, a feeling of gratitude would

naturally emerge. I think a feeling of connection and presence with that moment emerges, the awareness of what is available, because oftentimes when we want to practice gratitude, typically it's because we're so focused on what's not present, what we don't yet have, what we want to be the case, right, and when we can become present to what is he or I think we can open up our filter and see all of the different maybe needs that we do have consistently or at least in this moment, being met,

the space that we actually are, you know, choosing to inhabit in this moment. I think that we most often do you have available something right, that is actionable? Right, some need that has safety, or we even have a house a roof over our head. Right. These are small things that I think aren't small and that we so typically overlook because we've become so familiar with those being part of our present existence. Yet we diminish and instead of focusing on what we have here, we tend to

highlight what isn't yet here. Yeah. I've been doing a lot of reading about the psychological research on gratitude, and it's clear that one of its really salient features is the ability to almost counteract hedonic adaptation. Right. The ad actaient mean we just take for granted what we're used to, and gratitude being away of actually not taking things for granted, of being a way of connecting the fact that, like, well,

what would it be like if this thing wasn't here? Okay, Now I can get back to appreciating what I already do have, which really does seem to be one of the keys to happy life is to appreciate what we have spend more energy there than on what we don't have. When we free up the energy of focusing on what's not yet present. We're actually then saving conserving the energy to create change in that direction. Should we choose so

many of us expend so much energy. We were recording the previous podcast, we were talking a little bit about autopilot and how that actually conserves caloric energy for our brain. How we do prefer to just cruise into that familiar accepting things just as they are without thinking about them, because physiologically, actually there's a benefit of doing that in terms of the cleric intake, with my ain already needing

the most of it. So again, it allows us to be present to see the things that we've become unconscious too. As a way too oftentimes conserve energy, and when we have that then energy back not spinning around wishing hoping. Now we can use that energy to being grounded in the present and to actually creating the steps in that direction. So what do you do in your own life? Do you consciously practice gratitude in any sort of consistent way or is it just become part of your orientation for you?

How does it operationalize? So two ways. I think my most consistent practice of gratitude is staying really grounded and connect it to the present moment, coming to the awareness of how disconnected I had spent the large majority of my life. That is a daily habit and practice, always checking into where's my attention, always pulling it back, always

being observant of what is here, what is now? I think that's kind of the most number one foundational aspect of attitude that I integrate into my day to day. And then there's a more kind of acute moment by moment, and I give myself the opportunity for me, it's a

shift in thinking or language around. So typically when I don't want to do something, you know, I have an event, an opportunity, something coming up, a project, Right, I have to if you will, I tend to, you know, roll my eyes, which I didn't have to focus all of my internal monologueing on how much I shouldn't maybe have to do right this thing. We talked about taxes when we recorded a podcast, Right, I don't want to do

this thing. Language right now, I'm shifting. The shift I offer myself is I'm grateful for the opportunity to do my taxes so I can have a thriving business. I'm grateful for the opportunity to have this conversation right connected to what my intention is, so that the message gets out there. I'm grateful for whatever event I don't want to do, because this might take me one step closer to this goal I have for my future. I'm grateful for the opportunity. I sometimes even just use that, even

not being specific on what it is. Shifting again that internal monologue because against so many of us don't live in the present moment and can't feel grateful for what's available, because we're focusing on how much we wish it wasn't the case right here, right now, when we can sit in radical acceptance of what is here now, when we can maybe change the way we're filtering, giving ourselves the

opportunity to possibly springboard us into a future that's different. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for taking a couple of minutes to talk with us about gratitude. I am grateful that you did. I'm grateful for the opportunity. Up next is journalist, lecturer, and author of four New York Times bestsellers. A. J. Jacobs. Why don't you just take the Cans story kind of

from the top. Sure, I know this is themed to Thanksgiving, and I wrote an article a couple of years ago about how I'm trying to make Thanksgiving a little more creative and stretch our gratitude muscles on. And one thing I noticed was that the can. You know, we have canned pumpkin pie filling. We should make it ourselves, but we don't. And I noticed that the cans have little ridges on the side, and I looked it up and

those ridges are not there by accident. Someone came up with that idea because it makes the cans harder to dent. So thank you to the engineer who came up with the idea to have little ridges on the side of cans. Something totally never thought about, something I completely took for granted, something you'd never notice unless you thought about it. That is a great one. The numbers of those things are

really endless, the things to be grateful for. And I've looked into gratitude a little bit more preparing for this episode and some different things. One of the things that gratitude researchers think gratitude can be really helpful for is to forestall hedonic adaptation to some degree, right, which is basically the fact that we do take everything for granted. So your health you could wait till it's on, and

then you will wish you had it again. Right, But by practicing gratitude is a way of actually sort of not taking things for granted. And the number of things that at least in my life I take for granted is stunning. Right, Yes, that is a real danger, the hedonic treadmill. And you think, oh, I'll be happy when I get X, you get X. Ten minutes later you'lvia, Well, I'll really be happy when I get why, you get why,

and then it goes on and on. And the way I've found to battle it is through gratitude and through listing, almost cataloging all of the things that I do have. So again, it's an active discipline, the classic writing five things down. I do it with my mom. We trade emails every morning of something that we're grateful for. So yeah, that is for me, the only way to battle that evil hedonic adaptation. Yeah, I loved that idea that you and your mom exchange a thing every day that you're

grateful for. That's such a lovely practice. And how much better to be able to share gratitude with someone than just do it on our own. And I will tell you It's challenging because I have a rule with myself. I don't want to repeat, So I don't want to say I'm grateful for my dog, even though I love my dog. So I have to come up with a new one every day, and it gets harder and harder, but it's good. It is a good exercise. Are you

able to repeat with variation? Because one of the other things that I've seen, as i've again have looked at gratitude, is that specificity can be really helpful. So it's one thing to say I'm grateful for my dog. It's another thing to say I'm grateful for when my dog does that really cute thing where she buries her head in the pillow and shakes her butt around or whatever like.

So are you allowed to repeat as long as you're reflecting on a different aspect or once you've thanked your wife, it's over, no what you said, I love The more specific the better. And yes, I can be thankful for different parts, well not different parts of my different that sounded weird, but different different aspects of my dog, the cuddling or the playfulness and what you said. And I have a section in my book about writing thank you notes, and I found, at least for me, the most effective

where really getting specific. I remember I wrote thank you note to the people who are inspectors on the farms and they have to spend all their time and outdoors, and I could have just said thank you for being out there and inspecting the coffee farms, but I tried to picture what their life was like. You know, I thank you for putting up with the mosquitoes that I'm sure you have to put up, thank you for baking

in the hot sun. And the more specific I think is better for both parties because you get a little more empathy and then they're like, well you put some thought into it. Well. I think that is a great place to wrap up. Thank you so much for coming on. Like I said, I really did enjoy the book. You're an outstanding writer, and thank you it's been fun. Well. Thank you Eric, and thank you to your producer of course, and thank you to the people who made your microphone, etcetera, etcetera,

and and Riverside dot FM. Yeah, this could go on a long time. Up next is author, speaker and founder of the Wayfinder Life Coach training program Martha Beck. Hi, Martha, Welcome to our special Gratitude episode. Thank you so much, Eric. I am grateful to be here. I am grateful that you agreed to be here. Um, you know, maybe let's just start off by getting right into it. What does what does gratitude mean to you? And why is it important to you? You know, I honestly came to it

first through my brain. I was trained in social science and I was also pretty depressed in my early life, so I read that gratitude was really good for you. It wasn't that I was never grateful for anything, but when I began reading the positive psychology on gratitude, it had such a massive impact on people's health, their relationships, everything like that, and I thought, I've got to find a way to get into this. And I tried to

fake it and it didn't work. And I've coached people who have tried to fake it, and I will tell you this, if you're afraid or if you're depressed, the first thing you have to do is express love to yourself, to the part of you that is depressed or anxious, and just say it like you'll be okay, I'm right here with you. You can feel whatever you're feeling, and immediately those parts will flood you with gratitude for having

been noticed, for having been loved. So for me, gratitude starts with self compassion, and if you're having trouble or if you're forcing it, it doesn't work. But if you love the parts of you that aren't feeling grateful, they are so grateful to be loved, then it will fill

you up. Yeah, you wrote somewhere that it's not just the ciation that we feel that makes gratitude good, but it's the release of all other thoughts and feelings, right, So it's in essence, when we move into a grateful feeling, by the nature of the thing itself, other things have to fall away. So it strikes me that that is one of the real problems with gratitude practice. At least for me, it does get dry sometimes where I'm like

sort of going through the motions. Now, I still think it's valuable for me to go through the motions because there is at least an orientation that makes me start looking for gratitude more. It's kind of like, you know, sometimes I don't want to exercise, but I do, but at the same time, just rotally writing down three things you're grateful for day after day after day with no feeling isn't really going to give us what we want.

And I think for a lot of people that's why the practice ends, because it's doing it that way isn't really giving us the enormous benefits that we can get from gratitude. Right. And I tried it the same way you're describing, just writing it down by rote and not getting there with the genuine sensation of it. So along with loving the parts of you that aren't rateful, that the thing that works best for me if I want to get into that state is to move it into

my sensory mind. So do something that gratifies your senses. And I would tell you my favorite thing. It's embarrassing, but I'll tell you I like to get in bed. King size. Bed doesn't have to be king sized, but I'm really grateful that it is because when no one's there, I get in my pajamas, I get in bed, and I just roll and roll and roll. I just roll around. And it's like, if your whole body is immersed in this procedure, you don't stay in the tension that you're

in most of the time. So anything you love with your senses at it all together. Put on something fuzzy, you get something that's tasty, and treat yourself wealth physically, and again this simple animal body will flood you with gratitude. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people who study attitude and talk about gratitude. They really emphasize savoring things that we have to stay a little bit longer with the experience that's enjoyable, go deeper into it with all of

our senses as much as we can. Not only does it make it better then, but it's actually going to make it better when we look back on it and reflect on it as a grateful moment later. It's going into it as much as we can. That's really powerful. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because as I was sort of getting add it to come on, I thought, you know, all my

gratitude practices are very simple and very physical. And I remember being in Africa on safari and being very close to these wild animals, which I love, and being so excited and trying to grasp the experience right Like, instead of being grateful, I was actually anxious that it was about to end. When I take other people, they get

the same way, Oh it's going to end. And the way I tell people to come down from that is to start doing really really long exhales, because that's something a fleeing animal never does, and so it brings the brain down, It takes it out of fight or flight, which is that grasping feeling. And I just tell them

just breathe and breathe and breathe. And when I breathe consciously, it is like that experience with that animal lives inside me all the time, and it's the same thing with a child or with a wonderful experience of any kind. Breathe into it, breathe it in, and then breathe all the way out. I think it actually does something in the brain where it codes it in there more deeply. That's really interesting. Yeah, I have really had to work

with myself over the years. You know, two days into a vacation, I start counting how many days I have left and dreading it, you know, and I've really had to learn to be like, all right, let's not ruin this whole vacation by worrying that it's going to end. In those circumstances, it really is good to say, you know, what is here that I can taste, touch, here, smell, feel with my skin and then just really really focus

on that. So yeah, anything that takes you to the right side of your brain, which is breathing, sensory experience, comfort, love, all of those things will allow gratitude to emerge naturally and stay longer. Another practice that you write about is something you were trying out for a while called the three to one gratitude practice. Can you share a little bit about that. I think I'm so grateful that you read that because I probably wrote it during an all

night or that I've forgotten about. But what I what I would guess I said is that every time I haven't experienced that is unpleasant, and I'm thinking, why did I switch? And think of three things that have happened that are good, sometimes connected to the same event, sometimes they just happened unrelated to that in the same day.

But it takes those three things. Because we have a negativity by us in our brains that is evolved there, we actually have to push a little harder to get into the positive side of our emotions than into the negative. We slide into the negative. We sort of have to bring ourselves back to the positive. So that's why I do three appreciation and gratitude moments for every moment that I'm being obnoxious and ungrateful. I think that's a great practice.

That makes me think of the researcher on couples, John Gottman, who has done so much research and he came up with a ratio of positive to negative, and based on his research, this is the ratio he came up with. Again, who cares if it's three to one, five to one, four to one, right, But for every negative interaction that occurs in a relationship, you need five positive ones for

that relationship to really thrive. And most people in their relationships and relationships I've been in before before I was with Jenny, were almost the exact opposite, right, he was really almost five negative things to one, And it's no wonder that those relationships were disastrous, or maybe they were disastrous already and you had the less to be grateful for.

Who can tell? Who can tell? Yeah? Absolutely, That's so interesting because I've noticed in in our amily, maybe because of my son who has Down syndrome, there is more thank you being said in our house than I ever remember in any other house that I've been in, Like thank you for picking up my fork off the floor thank you for oh my gosh, you were so amazing, Like everything gets thanked out loud, and I think it

got even more during the pandemic. There's such an intense circle of thank you in our little hideaway from the pandemic that it kind of almost created this vortex of gratitude. And I don't know, I actually felt strange feeling so grateful at a time when so many people were having a rough time, and then I would just be so much more grateful that that was happening. Yeah, that's a rabbit hole we do not have time to go down,

but boy is it an important one. US two here with Jinny and I. It's just a very conscious, you know, thanking for kind of all sorts of things, just being appreciative of what the other person brings to the relationship, what the other person does around the house. When I taught at Omega last weekend, it won't be last week And for listeners, one of the new spiritual habits we unveiled was gratitude. And I read a study that said division of labor among couples is obviously important, right who

does what? But there also seems to be a lot of research that shows. In addition, it's really important that you are appreciating what the other person is doing, you're actually thanking them for that. And there's a lot of other research about how gratitude in a relationship just creates

this cycle that gets stronger and strungle. Right, if you feel grateful and express gratitude to the other person, well, now they feel better, so they're going to act more warmed you, or they're going to do something that's going to make you feel more grateful. And the more grateful you are, the more you want to invest in that relationship. And it's just this cycle that gets rolled. Yeah. I wrote about this um in my book about my son

when he was about five. I have three kids at the time, and all of them were allowed to open one Christmas present on Christmas Eve, and my girls opened their presence and they were like, oh, that's nice. It's not quite what I wanted, but it'll do. Then Adam opened to his present and someone had given him an automatic toy with batteries, but they wrapped the batteries separately, so what he opened was a package of batteries and I thought, oh no. I was like, oh, honey, that's

not the real president. He was like batteries. Oh my god, batteries. I mean, he didn't say oh my god, but he was like, oh my god, baggies, bies, batteries. And he started running around the house going, I could make it work this, and I could make it work this, and I could bring He was like insane with delight and gratitude for having these batteries, and that is why we give him stuff. It really showed me how much that genuine, thrilled expression of gratitude makes you just want to throw

more stuff at the person. It's powerful, it really is. I think, you know, so much of what limits gratitude and some of us is expectation or entitlement. Wow. Yeah, we think that what we're getting is what we deserve or what we are owed, or we know it's coming and we should get it. And I was reflected on

this something recently where a really good thing happened. But it was a good thing that I knew was going to happen for a while, and when it happened, I just was strangely sort of like, so I had to cultivate really going back to where did this come from? What was life like before this? You know, it's that old it's paraphrase much better than this, But you know, be thankful because you're the person that your old self wanted to be, or you have the things that your

old self was wishing for. That's really true. And I also think that we get that kind of experience when we have been building towards something that isn't a soul level desire, so society level desire. It's what we've been told. We'll make us happy, we'll achieve something, we'll have a certain financial level or whatever, and those are really important.

But when we get them, and I see this with clients all the time, there's no sense of satisfaction because the only sense of satisfaction comes from the roll level, which is when you yearned for something and then it came and then it was like the relationships in my life, it is like rain on drought every day all day, year after year after year. Just like so much gratitude the other stuff that I've got because I tried really hard and they told me that going on Oprah would

make me happy. I'm very very grateful to have done that, but afterwards I was like, that's not really landing. When Oprah read one of my books, and really really got it. It landed like I didn't want the bells and whistles. What I wanted was the connection of souls. So I would tell people, give yourself a break if something doesn't explode your mind with gratitude, but then look at what your soul has asked for and what it's created, and

look back on the things you yearned for. And even if it's just like I was really cold and now I have a warm bed, go back to the times when your soul is yearning and then just revel. I call it time travel, go back to the one who was yearning for this thing and just roll roll, roll around a warm bed and just say, oh, thank God, I'm not still stuck on that broken ski lift or whatever it was. And that kind of time travel and the yearning of the soul, those are two things that

really make my gratitude practice sort of sharper Well. I think that's a beautiful place to wrap up, because we are back to rolling around in a big bed where we started kind of. So, Eric, I'm going to take that recording of you saying that, and I'm going to play it for everyone and they can just make their own conclusions. Were rolling around in a big bed where we started. Me and Eric Bimmer. There's some gratitude coming

at you. Thank you, Martha, Thank you so much. Eric number four on our Gratitude episode is speaker and author of many books such as Quiet Power and Bitter Sweet. Susan Caine. Hi, Susan, it's so nice to talk with you again. Hey, Eric, So good to be back here with you. I've been enjoying our correspondence in between interviews about Leonard Cone. That's always nice to get your emails. Yes, me too, And I'm so happy to talk to you

again so soon after we did the first time. You know, your episode was definitely one of my favorites over the last couple of years, So if listeners you haven't heard it, I highly recommend it, as well as her book Bitter Sweet. But we're here to talk about gratitude, so I guess let's just start off when I sort of bring up the topic of gratitude, what comes to mind for you? Kind of right off the bat. You know, what comes

to mind is my grandmother. When I was a little kid, she really loved going to the botanical gardens, like she had spent most of her life living in cinder block housing where there weren't many flowers around, and she loved flowers and trees, and she would go I think it was the Brooklyn Botanical Garden. I'm not sure which one it was, but you know, I got carded along when I was a kid, and I just remember her saying,

it's so beautiful, it's so beautiful. And the time I was a little kid and I was like, oh, it's just some flowers, kind of boring, you know, they're just sitting here. But I think of her all the time now because I kind of feel the same way, like I'm just constantly exclaiming to my kids over how beautiful this thing or that thing is. I find every time you stopped to exclaim over it or just silently savor it and appreciate it, it lifts you up. And it's

also just true. It's also just like stating a truth of like, oh my gosh, here's a daily miracle. There's another daily miracle. They're all over the place. You mentioned the word savoring, which is definitely a key part of gratitude.

As I've done research on gratitude, I created a new program for our Omega Workshop around gratitude and it's certainly that idea of really being able to notice what's around you and try and savor it and appreciate it is really good for gratitude, not just in that moment, but also for our ability to look back on things and be grateful because we've made them more real and present, and thus our recollection of them later is also more

real and present. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. And one of the insights that I really came to when I was researching the whole Bitter Sweet book is about the extent to which we, as modern people who are scientifically inclined, tend to kind of like break down the things around us by understanding what their causes are, or you know that they're composed of atoms and molecules and like that, which is wondrous and fascinating in and of itself.

But the problem that we have is I don't think we're aware in the way people hundreds of years ago were of just how constantly we're surrounded by the miraculous. And I don't mean the miraculous in a supernatural kind of way, I just mean in the like, can you freaking believe that this thing exists? Exactly one of the guys who wrote a lot about and studied a lot about gratitude is named Robert Emmons, and he has a quote. I'm not going to get it exact, but it's something

along the lines. Seen with grateful eyes requires that we see the web of interconnection in which we alternate between being givers and receivers. When I think about the miraculous, I think about that web of interconnection, how everything is connected to and caused by something else, and in a very literal sense, the entire universe had to happen in the way it happened to get me to this beautiful moment right here. That is such a deep mystery and

such a deep beauty. Yeah, it really is, It really is.

And then at the same time, whenever I hear about or talk about the idea of gratitude, I always feel like there's an untruthfulness to the discussion unless we also make space for the fact that there are aspects of existence for which we really do have no reason to be grateful, you know, just like horrors and malevolence and all kinds of things that are also part of existence, and that I don't know, I mean, maybe somebody else would say we should feel grateful for all of it.

I don't feel that way. I don't think it's true. I don't think we can, or really even should feel grateful for those things and more. Just think what's really helpful is to understand that existence encompasses, you know, the beautiful miracles and then the horrors and the sufferings, and that's how it is. Take it all in, accept it, and turn in the direction of the beauty, and feel

grateful for that. I find that a much more manageable way of living than the direction I feel were often told to go in, which is just like you know, only feel gratitude and don't notice the rest of it. I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think gratitude should not be a way of escaping the realities of our lives, or the difficulties in our lives, or the things that need to change. Like if you're in an abusive relationship, you don't want to be grateful find the good things

about your abuser and be grateful for them. You want to get out. You know, a lot of things in life we can't get out of a lot of the type of horrors that you're describing. So I think we do need to take in the whole human condition. And it's interesting, however, to see certain people like Ellie viz L I think I'm saying that correctly talk about how gratitude was really an important part of him surviving. You know,

he was in concentration camps. And he also writes deeply about the horror and how terrible it was, right, and so he really shows both of those things. You know, these can both be true. There are things in life we can be grateful for, and there are things in life that we can be suffering through, and both those things can be accurate at the same time or true at the same time. That I think is the key

thing to understand. They can both be true at the same time, and to embrace one doesn't mean to deny the existence of the other. And I think that's something that we can really live with because it's telling the truth. There's this quote from the musician Glenn Gould that I came across the other day where he talks about I don't have the exact words in front of me, but it's something like the purpose of art is not for the momentary spurt of adrenaline that a beautiful artwork gives you.

It's rather that it leads you in the direction of kind of like the slow accumulation of wonder and serenity in your life. That's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, and it's so true. That's why I think turning in the direction of a beauty for which we can be grateful, or turning in the direction of gratitude itself, is so sustaining because it has a way of fortifying you in the direction of wonder and serenity. You know, It's like the more you

do it, the more you get to turn in that direction. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean I think you know, when we think about gratitude, we first have to sort of be paying attention to what's around us and then noticing the goodness kind of like you're saying. And then I think there's an element of recognize seen the gift of it. You know that this art, you know, let's just take a beautiful piece of music, a Leonard co and piece of music, like I received that as a gift. Totally, it is a

gift to me. And so I think that's the key is recognizing these benefits. And I think one of the things I love about gratitude and I think It's both one of the biggest benefits of gratitude and one of the biggest hindrances to gratitude is our ability to take literally everything for granted. I think that blocks is feeling grateful, But conversely, if we try and look through grateful eyes, it's a way of starting to not take the really good things in our lives quite so much for granted.

Our families are health, the fact that we have drinking water. I mean, there's just so many things that are truly amazing that if I'm not cultivating the mindset, I just will take for granted and think, you know, I don't have anything good right right. And we all have that experience of like you've got a really bad cold or something. He feels so crappy, and then the first day that you feel better, you're like, oh my gosh, it's so

amazing to feel healthy. I Am going to appreciate this every minute of every day for the rest of my life. And then you know, the appreciation starts to wean and you start focusing on other things insteady six minutes later, you've got a complaint. I mean, I know, it's so funny. I think about that when I'm in pain. When I'm in pain, the only thing I want is that pain to go away, and it is a deep desire, like

if it's really bad, it blocks everything out. And like you said, I just think, well, if if it would just go away, I will be content. And it goes away, and I'm like, well, I have to cultivate appreciation that it's not there. Otherwise our tendency towards adaptation and our tendency to notice what's negative around us kind of overwhelmed those basic things. Yeah, And you know, you keep coming back to the idea of noticing, and I do think

that's one of the most important insights. Our brains only have the ability to pay attention to so many things at once, and or maybe even only one thing at a time, and we have some ability to direct our attention in the direction of our choosing. And you can choose to direct your attention towards the things that are a bummer, or you can choose to direct it towards

the things for which you're grateful. And I think this is especially true in our relationships with other people, you know, because we're all so incredibly flawed that if we want to, we could easily find the flaws in everyone we encounter and dwell on those, or you can find the miracles in each other's personalities or just the things we enjoy and focus on those. And that's a choice we can make at every moment. Absolutely, And I don't know who

said this quote. I get leary anymore of attributing anything to anyone because it's just every time I turn around, it's like, Nope, he never said that, she never said that. But the idea is it's good to look for the best in people, and often they will act that way

because of it. And m gratitude has been researched kind of out the wazoo, and there's research about a virtuous cycle that starts in couples when they start to appreciate gratitude for each other because as one person does that, you know the other person feels appreciated then wants to invest in the relationship, and then as you invest in the relationship, the relationship becomes something that's more precious to have because it's better, and the cycle kind of keeps rolling.

So I think there's so many ways that it can be a really helpful tool in our lives. And kind of back to your point, it isn't at the exclusion of noticing what's difficult or hard or painful. I think of it more as sort of a day to day tool in that it's like you said, where's the orientation of my mind going? And I know where mind goes when I don't consciously redirected. It does not go to beauty and gratitude and appreciation. That's not where it naturally goes.

And I think most people are that way, and some of it's probably more than others. It goes to what's not here, what's missing. I think that's right, and I think it's also useful for people to figure out what are the aspects of their lives that really get them to marveling at how amazing things can be. And I'll just give you an example of what I mean. I took this v I a character strength test some years ago.

It helps you understand what the strengths are in your own character, and I think they're like twenty four different ones and it just sort of ranks them. And my number one strength was one I hadn't even considered before,

and it was appreciation of beauty and excellence. And I was like, oh gosh, that's that's really interesting because I do you know, like I'll see a perfect figure skating routine or something, or just an article that's amazingly written and it fills me with a sense of awe and excitement, and so I just know that might seem sort of quirky to somebody else, but I know for me like that beholding something excellent is incredibly elevating. So the question

is what is it for you? And you and you like we all have different aspects that elevate us and take in the time to figure out what it is for you. I think is one of the best gateways to gratitude that we have. I couldn't agree more. I think it is what is it for me? Because it is different for everybody, because some people when they see excellence and beauty, it causes almost an envy, not appreciation of it. For people that have that orientation, that may

not be the right direction. A similar idea that's been on my mind lately as I tried surfing for the first time in Europe this summer and I loved it, and then I've gone to l A and done it again. And it's a stupid hobby for an Ohio and however, not at traveling Ohioan That's exactly right. However, it is the first thing in years that makes me fist pumping, lee joyous. I don't experience that level of pure joy anywhere else. It's not to say that I don't have

subtle flavors of it, but that level of it. And so I've just been like, you know what, I'm going to make a choice to cultivate that because that feels important. It feels like turning towards beauty and all and all that there's something about the combined experience of it all that is really special. And I think that kind of points to what you were just saying about finding your thing. Yeah. Absolutely,

and I totally get that. By the way, I feel that exact thing when I play tennis, which is a lot more convenient for me because I can just go to the local tennis court. But I know exactly what you're talking about, and I would fly across the country to to feel that way. Yeah. Well, tennis has been on my list of things to take up and it just hasn't happened yet. Jinny and I we're gonna take it up as a couple. And things with balls and

flying at her just don't go well. I don't think should mind mind me sharing that our first tennis lesson together ended in tears, so it wasn't the right couple's activity. However, I'm going to pursue it at some point. I think it's a good idea and as a couple, maybe you should try pickle ball. I just tried playing it with my son last week and it was amazing. Elicited the same exact joy. But it's like a whiffle ball, so Jenny might be happy with that. Yeah, pickle ball is

definitely on the list of things to do. Also well, Susanen with one question here, which is is there anything you do besides the conscious turning of beauty to practice gratitude in your life or is that really your core practice? Gosh, I don't know. I feel like it's something I do a lot as a parent, partly because my kids knock on Wood so far have had really good lives and I want them to be aware of how fortunate they are. But I think it's just something that happens naturally as

a parent. We live on a quiet street and we often go out onto the street to play catch, you know, and I'll be like, oh my gosh, we're so lucky that we live on this quiet street where we can do this and don't have to worry about cars. So I'm constantly pointing those kinds of things out to them, and hopefully they don't find it annoying. They don't seem to. I do think there's something about being a parent that can orient us in that direction of noticing these things.

I love that. I think that's a really great practice, like if we are orienting our children in that direction and at the same time choosing to orient ourselves in that direction exactly. Yeah, Well, thank you so much for coming on. It is always such a pleasure to talk with you, and I appreciate you coming on and talking about gratitude today. You are so welcome. Love talking to you, and yeah, thank you for reaching out on this and closing out this episode is author, meditation, teach and podcast

host at The Astral Hustle Corey Allen. Hey, Corey, it's good to talk to you again. Good to talk to you again. As always, this has been a bounty of riches as far as talking to you. I feel like I've done it more over the last several months and it took us several years to get in, so this has been great. Glad to be connected again. Man. Yeah, So we are talking about gratitude, and I guess I'll just start off broadly and ask you, you know, when I bring up the topic of gratitude, what what comes

to mind for you? A couple of different things. I think. The first thing is I think about the general things that people associate with gratitude. What is in my life that makes me feel anchored and safe and fulfilled. Those things are relationships, my career, the things I'm able to do and share with people, and just the general systems that I have in my life that are really meaningful to me. And then of course there's just the abundance

of modern living that I'm really grateful for. As far as you know, I live in Austin, Texas, and so it's so easy to get numb to like the ways that we live, of like what's available to us as far as you know, things like clean drinking waters, even stuff like that, where it's like sometimes I just stop and remember that it's easy just to forget that that's a real luxury, Like it's just so plentiful where we are kind of blows my mind, you know, think about

the wow. You know, but you know all that stuff people are pretty used to and they're familiar with those ideas are ingratitude. But to go a little bit deeper, I'll say this, and I'm curious how you think about this. How do people apply gratitude? Right? Like, how do people take the idea, whether it be sort of along the lines of what I just described, or if it's kind of this mem ification idea of gratitude, and how do you actually apply that to life to where it has real,

concert distant and daily resonance. Because most people think about gratitude I ascertain from observing the Internet is people look at gratitude with the way it's talked about as some type of solution. So it's like, oh, I'm feeling down today, Well remember all of the good things in your life, you know, Or I'm like in this crazy challenge right

now and things feel really difficult. It's like, okay, but now tap back into gratitude and remember all the things you have going for you, everything that you've got them to this point. And so what's trying to happen there is that they're using gratitude in a time where they're struggling to apply it to the challenge the negative emotions, to offset the feeling of negativity, to try and bring

themselves back into balance. Right now, there's nothing wrong with that, certainly, but are we short changing the deeper level of our gratitude by using it in that way? So we only look at gratitude is an active way to minimize negativity. Are we missing the deeper gratitude available to us in daily lives that exists on its own terms, not in relativity to challenges or negativity, but for its own sake.

So that's something I think about, and I have various ways of working with that, But I'm curious what you think about that and how you might approach that same idea. I first have to ask, are you grateful for your voice? Because as a podcaster, usually in every conversation like I'm doing all right over here, but every time I get on with you, I'm like, that guy has got a great podcasting voice. I hope you're grateful for it. I am,

thank you. And I will say is that with the great power comes great responsibility, and so I try and use it wisely. But also it is kind of funny is that it's like I suppose if someone is like seven ft tall, every person that they meet is like, wow, you're really tall, and they're like I know that, thank thank you for. And it's kind of a funny thing is that every conversation I have on the phone, on you know, on podcasts, random conversations, it's only the first

thing that comes up. So it is kind of one of those funny things for a while I'm grateful for it's also like kind of always being brought to me, which is funny on its own. Yeah. Actually, what you just ended there with I think is interesting because you know, when I think about gratitude, I've been thinking a lot about hadonic adaptation and the idea that gratitude is both the greatest antidote for that, but that hadonic adaptation is

also the greatest block to gratitude, you know. So one way of looking at that is if we look at through the paradigm you just said, which is I use gratitude to counteract certain negative things. Right, We could use gratitude as a way of counteracting the fact that we just get used to all the good stuff in our lives. We just do our ability to adapt is a good and bad thing. Right When terrible things happen to us, our ability to adapt to them is a good thing. However,

it also means we take literally everything for granted. But it's also interesting to think about if I were to work with the donic adaptation more skillfully, might that unlock gratitude for its own sake, to just have the depth of gratitude as an orientation to life versus a tool that I bring in exactly. Yeah, And should we define the hedonic treadmill real quick? Or have you talked about

that on your podcast before? I'm sure we've talked about it, and I'm sure not everybody hears it all the time. Why don't you define it real quick? Oh? Sure? Yeah, So basically, think about donic that's pleasure. And so as we continue to evolve in our lives get better, we very quickly get used to the luxuries and the good aspects of our lives, and it makes it harder for us to see them in the big picture of everything

that's going on. So the adaptation or the treadmill analogy both are you're just always sort of running towards more pleasure and missing what you have because it's in our nature too. Once we acquire something, just normalize it to a new bay line. Yeah, exactly. The adaptation is a principle is us as humans adapt to whatever we're given. If we're giving bad things, we have a remarkable ability to adapt to them. That's the positive side of it.

And then the hedonic adaptation is the negative side of it, which is we take everything for granted. You know, you and I were talking beforehand about how fortunate we both are to do the kind of work that we do. Yet, if I don't actually sometimes make an effort to remember that, you know, this thing that I dreamt of for so long, I thought if I just get that, I'll be happy. No longer makes me happy. Now gratitude is actually a tool, I think. So this is back to his gratitude a tool,

Is it a state of mind? I think it's all of those things. But for me, it's a tool of kind of getting back to appreciating the things that I actually do have. If you're not using it as a tool, how do you think about it or what do you find to be a more useful orientation? Yeah, and also

I don't think it's really for me anyway. It's not a black, and there's definitely great where I do use it as a tool sometimes, but as far as trying to look at a deeper relationship with it, I really apply it through the abundance of presence, So just being aware of being aware and really melting into the present moment with everything that you're experiencing and getting to that root level of Oh, right, I am a aware agent of consciousness flowing through time in the middle of outer space,

and I know that I'm a wave of consciousness and a meat space suit. This is unreal, right, this is so crazy and fun, and it's a good way for me. I just remember that and think about that every day. I suppose it court just crops up once or twice

a day. I don't really have to work at it too much, but I think about it and it just really grounds me and it does pull me back to that original mind place that you were talking about of like whoa, but I think about everything that like I've experienced in life, you know, good and bad, the circumstances and like the infinite self organizing possibility of all that could be. And this is the meat taxi that my brain is in mind is taking a ride, and you

know like this is crazy. And then of course, as I said, it always gets meta where I think the fact that I can think about this and I'm aware that I'm thinking about this is unreal. And to me that like kind of zooming out and zooming in simultaneously. It's a way to get the big picture and the

granular picture at the same time. And then that's whenever you know, you can get into that state of the classic thing of washing the dishes and feeling you know, that's an incredible experience because you're actually there for it. You're not somewhere else. You're actually really tuned into just how brilliant it is to even be aware of the fact that you're aware. Yeah, there's a three aspects of

gratitude I've been thinking about. For gratitude, I think to find its full expression, all three of these things have to be happening. And one is we have to be paying close attention. It doesn't really work if we're not. And then the next is to notice the goodness that is there right you know, from your perspective here the goodness is just the wonder of what is this? You know,

what is this? And then the last is sort of recognizing it as a gift, right, recognizing like I am not the creator of any of this, Like I couldn't have made all this happen on my own, So again, who the giver is? We don't need to get lost on that, if you want to put to me, that's not what's important. What's important is I wasn't the source

of it. Kind of what you were just describing, you sort of summarized all three of those things, right, This deep attention to the present moment, This recognizing that indeed it is good just to be, and that the fact that I am is a gift of sorts in that I didn't create it. I can barely create a podcast, let alone. You know this multiverse we live in, well, I mean, don't shut change yourself. Eric. I think that you are the creator of all things and the universe.

I think you are an omnipotent being. I don't like. Another important part of it is not getting real heavy handed with it, you know, because it's easy for a person to get in there and be kind of feeling like they need to play the role of what we're talking about, to like feel what we're talking about. But it's a lot more light than that because I feel like one of this type of conversation crops up. There's a potential for a listener to try and put on that outfit a little bit and wear it in their

own lives. And the reason it works is because it's light. It's not like I'm going to sit down and like really curl my brow and like get deep into this you know, emotional thing. It's like, no, no, just like lighten up. Let go just feel that you're here and like notice how amazing it is, and then you're good. Yep. And is that enough for you or do you find that it actually helps to in some way consciously cultivate gratitude or do you find it comes simply by being present?

To me, it comes by being presents. But also, my mind is very curious and extrapo lady at the same time, and so I'm always peeling back and thinking about those things and expanding. I will say that I think a real benefit to practicing gratitude for gratitude's sake and just getting into that baseline energy of like alright, like whatever, there's always ups and downs. Sayings suck, then they're awesome,

then they suck again, then they're awesome. That's just the way the life goes, and you can mitigate some unnecessary suffering by being active. But okay, there it is. It's cool that we're here, this is fun, this is beautiful,

and let's just feel it for a minute. To me, I've noticed, because I've kind of experimented and tried to do this out of curiosity, is that that baseline of gratitude builds a really useful foundation because then whenever you do hit a low point and you're feeling the weight of the negative sign of the spectrum, it can make it a lot more difficult for you to have all that weight that's pushing on you make any cracks. I've tried to reach my bottom and like have the bottom

fall through for fun. Really curiosity where it's like if I've gotten into a negative mind state, that is fortunately it's it's pretty rare. But if I do start feeling like I'm sliding into that area of feeling like just hopeless or something like that, I'll like flirt with it or I'm like, I'm curious if I could get to the other side of that, Like what does it feel like to just give up? And I can't get there, Like I've really tried just to see what it's like.

As I was in that area of being, like come on, like let's let go and like really give up just to feel it. And maybe a part of it being able to spelunk into the like dark side is like that it's because I know that I'll come back, because I'm just I always cheer up really easily. You know. I wouldn't recommend this for someone who's dealing with depression or anything. I was gonna say, we got at the top of this show at this point. Good. I hope

that all of our shows have describers going forward. But it's like I, as I was like doing that, I was like, oh, yeah, I can't get through there because there's that that layer of foundational awe of being. That's what the ground floor is, and so all of the weight doesn't end up cracking through that because that is the root of everything, So all the stuff above it can't get through it. Well, any last words on gratitude,

I don't think so. I'm grateful for you, thank you for everything you're doing in the world and the person that you're being and sharing out there, and thank you for thanking of me for this conversation, and thank you for everyone for listening through the weirdness and making it to the end. All right, Thanks Corey, thank you m If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You

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