How to Find Joy, Wisdom, and Wonder in Nature with Mark Coleman

in the Outdoors retreat at the Beautiful Cropollu Center. This summer, I'll be co teaching the retreat with Ralph de l Rosa, who's a three time guest of the podcast, author, psychologist, meditation teacher and friend. During these five days together, will enjoy hikes, outdoor meditations, art, insightful workshops, and lively discussions. Our goal is for you to walk away feeling restored, with a firm awareness of new resources and a new

relationship with the gifts nature holds for us. To learn more about this special retreat and sign up, go to oneufeed dot net slash nature.

just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Mark Coleman, an instructor at Spirit Rock Meditation Center who has taught

insight meditation retreats since nineteen ninety seven worldwide. Mark is passionate about integrating meditation in nature and leads wilderness retreats through his organization, Awake in the Wild, as well as nature based meditation teacher trainings. As the co founder of the Mindfulness Training Institute, Mark also leads year long mindfulness

teacher trainings in the US and Europe. He's the author of Awaken the Wild, Mindfulness in Nature as a path of self discovery and make Peace with your Mind from Suffering to Peace, and his latest book, A Field Guide to Nature Meditation fifty two Mindfulness Practices for Wisdom, Joy and Wonder.

are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and there's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stopped. They think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that you do. Yeah.

the world, people, my family. I had very critical, negative mind, including towards myself, and you could say I was really feeding that very negative, critical, angry blaming judge side of myself. And I was miserable. I was stressed, I was suffering, I was hurting. And I heard this teaching from the Buddha where it goes something like whatever the mind frequently dwells and ponders upon, that becomes the inclination of the mind and the heart. Something about that really struck comes. Oh,

whatever I'm focusing on on, that's what I become. You know what they now say in neuroscience, whatever fires together, wires together, And so I really got oh, I can actually shift my frame of attention, shift my focus to not necessarily just looking at what's wrong, what's problematic, who's to blame, but actually also noticing what's okay. So I was living in East London. It was very run down at the time, very depressed, very gritty urban as in

this working class neighborhood. And I took this teaching to heart and I decided to focus on anything that was uplifting, like the sun hitting a building, a London poplar tree on my street in bethnal Green, any birds that happened to kind of survive London smock and so I just started noticing that which was uplifting, or noticing a mother being very sweet to her kid, you know, or kids playing in the park near me, and shifting my attention to not fixating on what was negative and wrong, but

what was actually wholesome or good or uplifting, especially for me around nature, really transform my mental state. I began to actually feel brighter. I feel more positive, less negative and less depressed. Actually, so that's one theme that comes from hearing that story comes to mind.

with what's present. How do you find that you balance sort of those two energies.

often not with experience. We're busy fiddling, fixing, proving, judging, changing, avoiding. So just that is so radical to be with whatever it is, both the beauty and the sorrow. But mindfulness is always in service of wisdom, service of understanding, service of freedom. So we don't just stop with the noticing. Right, So I might notice, for example, like I have chronic pain, So I can't ignore the chronic pain because it's there.

So I feel the pain, feel the sensation. Or I might wake up in the morning and feel grumpy or tired or achy from exercising or from body stuff. I'd be with that. I feel it, I notice it, and then I ask, what else is here? What else is present? Oh?

I notice, Yeah, my back ache is there. But I look out the window and the rains have stopped from these storms we're having here in northern California, and it's a beautiful sunny day and it's actually a spring day, and there's light on the leaves, and there's blossoms on the trees, and my cat's sleeping on the bed, looking very cute. And so it's yes and right, it's not yes, but or no, not quite. I'll go somewhere else. No,

it's acknowledging and then also widening the lens. Yeah, And of course at times we need to just be with our heart ache or our sadness or our body pain or tenderness or whatever with And there's also a lot of times where to fixate on the pain, for example, or what I'm not liking about myself or my life that's not healthy. It just leads to more negative, critical spiraling mind states. And actually to shift the attention say yes and helps bring balance.

times I think is the nuance. And I love the idea of sequentiality, meaning start in one place and then move to the next.

I can tell how close you've been to nature and how much you've fallen in love with it in the way that you write about it. I was wondering if you would read for just so that we can hear your voice reading these beautiful words, to bring us into this place of imagining what it is like. Maybe we can all think back to an experience that connects but what it's like to be mindful in nature. So in your introduction, I was wondering if you could just read maybe the first four small paragraphs.

I'm acutely aware of all the faint sounds, whispers of the forest beginning to wake up, and birds beginning their morning conversations. I recognize the subtle fragrance of the earth. After the evening rain has moistened the soil, I begin to see infinite shades of green as light enters the forest canopy. When I come across a small pond, I pause awhile the stillness of the water naturally draws me

into a state of contemplation. I sense the quietude of the morning, the hush of the forest, the tranquility of stones that line the water's edge. I feel invited into a natural meditation, attuned to the serenity of nature. I notice the same peacefulness arising within me. The notion of being a visitor in the forest vanishes as I begin

to feel part of the forest, welcomed and connected. This, i remember, is why I step outdoors as often as possible to experience the beauty, serenity, and joy of nature. It allows me to act access a natural quality of meditation, a state I call mesative awareness, where one is naturally attentive. It is a quality that is fully embodied, meaning I'm inhabiting my physical experience, attuned to my senses, grounded and alert. This is mindfulness in nature and it is at the

heart of nature meditation. It is a quality of attention we can cultivate in any landscape, and with the right intention, it is possible to access any time we spend time outdoors.

we wish could be more present for us. But the beautiful thing that you point out is that first step out into nature with awareness that this attention and this present moment embodiment can come quite effortlessly, and that's the beauty of doing so in nature. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to be mindful in nature and to meditate in nature and why we would use that setting as a place to do so.

that kind of busy urban craziness. And I noticed that when i'd go to a park or go visit my parents in the country and I take my meditation and I just sit quiet, like I mentioned, sit by pond or by a tree or in the wood somewhere, that all that struggle that I used to feel indoors trying to meditate, as most of us do, struggling with our thoughts, mind's all over the place, hard to focus. We notice a breath or two, and then we've gone onto some

memory thought loop. Story, and I just noticed that when I was outside that happened much less, that there was so much more stimulation that was pleasantly inviting me into the present moment with ease rather than struggle. And so whether it was listening to the sound of birds because in England the birds song is really loud and beautiful, or the sound of the wind, or feeling the warm sun on my face, or walking through the woods and just noticing the beauty of the trees or whatever flowers sky.

I just began to see that nature invites us into the present in a very natural, relaxed, organic way. And as I said, the struggle to be mindful sort of fell away, and it's just like, oh, I just have to be here, I sor put my body here and just pay attention to what's happening around me sight, sound, smells, touch, breeze, movement, light, And that was a very easy way to just settle into the present moment and also very joyful, very hard opening.

You know, we're pleasure seeking beings, so if an experience is pleasant like bird song, breeze, light, forest smells green, we want to be present. You know, I often joke with people I take the people into these beautiful places and the big coast or up in the mountains, and I say, why wouldn't you want to be present here, you know, with the sunrise, or with the sound of birds, or the green valleys that we're looking at, or the

flowers in spring. And so it's a great counterpoint, especially for the many, if not majority, of people who find meditation kind of like a lot of work and it's kind of burdensome, and it's kind of like, oh, I've got to do this because I know it's good for me, but I really it's like going to the gyms. I don't really want to go, but I know it's good for me, so I'll do it. Whereas we can just relax. And actually, the more you relax in nature, the more

present you become. And so it's a great teacher in what it means to be mindful, which is we actually all have the ability to be inherently mindful, inherently aware, and nature supports that. Nature invites that natural quality, and it becomes more efforless and more engaging.

really was so helpful. And up till now I hadn't put two and two together. I had thought it was because I was listening and sound is my thing, but I realize that it was the part of it also was the nature, and it really was far easy for me to do than more of a standard meditation. It's not that I didn't still have to put effort forth, it wasn't that I didn't still have to try and focus, but it felt like seventy five percent easier to me,

and I loved doing it. So that certainly is my experience, and I think it's important that you point out in the book, and the point I'm making here is you don't have to be deep in the woods for this stuff to apply.

streets here, but there's oak tree. There's a red wit tree next to that. There's sky above, there's clouds. I noticed the migrating birds coming back now in winter and spring. I feel the fresh air. I smelled the smell of the rain. Yeah, it can be sitting in your garden. It can be sitting in a park. It can be looking at a tree through your window on a cold, rainy or windy day in Minnesota where it's you know,

ten below and winchill. It's amazing how even the smallest access to nature plant, tree, garden, or the view of a sky from a window. You know, we're in nature species, right, We've grown up, we evolved in nature. It's only recently we live in these buildings. And glass and cased houses,

and so our body resonates. You know, there's this lovely phrase attention restoration therapy that studies how our brain is much more RESTful in nature because the brain is familiar with processing trees, leaves, clouds, flowers, animals, because that's what we've evolved with. We haven't evolved with lamp shades and you know, you know, screens, and so that's a lot of work for the brain. So there's something very naturally RESTful.

And also that restfulness for most people, not for everybody, but for most people is also you know, it's a lovely support for meditation. Our nervous system relaxes, our heart rate goes down, our cortisol goes down, and we start to feel more ease. So many of us are craving that ease or that antidote to the reving anxiety and the stress and the overstimulation. So my main instruction to people at the end of every teaching I give is

go outside, Go outside, go outside. The Buddha at the end of a teacher used to say, there are trees, and there are the roots of trees. Go sit by them lest you regret it later. My instructions, just get outside outside, sit anywhere is good, or walk anywhere is good. You know, when we're indoors, most of our focus is about me, myself and I me and my life and my dramas, my stories and my plans and my project

and that's all fine. It's just being human. When we go outside, it's like, oh, oh there's a whole world. Oh it's raining, Oh it's spring. Oh it's dusk. Oh there's a moon. You know, there's a crowdside my deck my house. There's a pair of them and they're building a nest. Like, oh, it's springtime and the birds are

building nests. It just takes us into this whole other world beyond ourselves, which going back to the early thing about shifting attention from me, myself and my problems to oh, there's a whole world out there, and that actually is just good for mental health to widen that lens of attention.

I did not mention this to listeners at the beginning, but you are one of my two teachers who created the curriculum and then guided me through the process of becoming a certified mindfulness teacher. So one of the exercises, one of the very first exercises that you and Martin Aylward, the other teacher, had us do in small groups, is to define what is mindfulness? Which seems, you know first glance,

like it should be a very easy thing to do. However, the more you learn about mindfulness, the harder it is to find words that actually capture the depth and breadth of it, isn't it. So you talk about how mindfulness is both a quality of mind and a practice that anyone can develop systematically. But how do you define mindfulness?

and clarity and care. But it really comes down to a simple, simple awareness, the simple knowing of experience of what's happening. Like right now, I'm aware of looking at you two, I'm aware of feeling the light from outside, I'm sensing my body, I'm hearing other sounds in the background. I'm aware of my thoughts and my handmoving. Like it's just that simple, innate human ability to be aware of

what's happening. And then people might say, well, what's the big deal If we're already aware, then you know why all this meditation and training and retreats and because, as we know, we have this ability, but our attention is so often not in the present moment, so often pulled into the habit of thinking, daydreaming, lost in memories and plans, and so most people most of the time need support to actually learn how to really stay and abide present

here in the moment. And that's what mindfulness practice is, and meditation is, and training is, and retreats are. But I think it's always important for all of us to know that it's natural and it's available, and why I like again of tailing to nature. Why I love doing this practice outside is that people realize, oh, when I'm at the beach and I'm just you know, sitting looking at the ocean, and you know, as we do, we can watch waves for hours, and that is being mindful.

It's not a big deal. I'm just present sitting watching, listening to the waves, that's being mindful. If I go for a walk in the park, like, it's not hard to be present, you know. I mean, of course, we space out and we get drifting thoughts and we daydream, but you know, we can mostly be aware of you know, walking and smelling, seeing and enjoying. So nature, as I said, just makes the availability of mindfulness so much closer and easier. And then people realize, oh, I can do this anyway.

Of course, we can cultivate it and refine it and deepen it and all of that, but it really is available here.

it's harder. And I hear people say that, but I'm kind of curious to someone from your perspective who's kind of watched people students over a great number of years.

and so we're always multitasking. And when we always multitask, we're always splitting our attention, which means we're not focused our attention. So when we come to be mindful and try to focus on one thing, like the breath, which is not that exciting compared to you know, rolling through you know, TikTok or whatever it is that is our

chosen feed of interest. It's hard because we've trained our attention to focus on something for a few seconds, and then as soon as we're bored, as soon as we want a dopamine hit, we just open up another window and you know, look at something, you know, whether it's Google or video. And I think the research also has showed. Microsoft did this longitudinal study where they were tracking people's attention on a screen from two thousand to twenty sixteen

or seventeen. Their research showed that our attention span where people were focusing on one thing went from twelve seconds to eight seconds, which is a fifty percent reduction in ability to sustain attention on the task at hand. So the joke is that goldfish can sustain their attention for nine seconds, and we've dropped down to eight. Were were subpar golfish at this point, but no, definitely. I think

I noticed in myself. You know, I've been meditating since the mid eighties, and I had the luxury of having a meditation practice for a good twenty years or more before phones came out. You know, computers had come out in the late nineties for me anyway, and life felt simpler and slower. We were just less stimulated. So I think there's two things about your question. One is, initially it's harder, like when we can meditate either the beginning of our day or the end of our day and

we sit for you know, ten twenty thirty minutes. I think that general experience is harder because we're so overstimulated, we're so busy having an attention that's really multitasking, that it's hard to settle. When people come on a retreat for you know, i'd say a minimum of like five to seven days and they get to kind of let go of those habits of scattered attention in multitasking, screen orientation, then I would say the difference between let's say twenty

years ago and now is lefs. Yes, Like I think once people actually have the supportive conditions where they're learning to train their mind, the hardware is still sort of the same, and so the mind is infinitely trainable. But yeah, I think we need to really pay attention to what

we're doing with our attention. You know, we live in this attention economy, and does checking your phone one hundred times a day or having ten screens open or multitasking all the time, is that really supporting your focus and well being. You know, it seems like, oh, I'm going to go for a walk and listen to a podcast, and that's fine. But new scientists will probably say, well, you're not really doing either. You're half walking and paying

attention and you're half listening to the podcast. And when we multitask, we do each task less well, so it seems more expedient. Says, oh, I can kill two birds of one stone, catch up on my podcast, get some exercise in, and that's fine, and we all do that. You know, some variation on that, and it has an impact on our attention and that's interesting. Just a case

in points. So I did a solo retreat recently. I was in a friend's house by the coast, and I called it my kind of resting and being retreat, and I meditated some, but it was a very light schedule. It was just very relaxed. I get up, make some teas, sit on the balcony, look at the sunrise, meditate a little slowly, make my breakfast. It was a digital free retreat, so there's no no screens, no phones, and I just did simple activity, cooking breakfast without rushing and without phone

or music. Or podcast. It was actually very pleasurable, ordinary simple activity when we can just do it without rushing and thinking. It's doing this to get to the next best thing, the next stimulus. The whole retreat was quite lovely. It was super ordinary. You know, I'd meditate some, I do walking, meditation some, but mostly I was just being present, being human, doing ordinary stuff cooking, cleaning, washing up, walking, sitting,

drinking tea, And it was really pleasurable. It is a great contrast to see all that stimulation that we think we need. Whether that actually improves our well being and happiness is really questionable.

It's effortless. It's actually removing the barriers that stand in the way of you connecting with your true deep nature. You connecting with this present moment as it's arising in a skillful way. And I think one of the reasons I love this book is that you share fifty two meditations that we can do in nature. It's so incredibly

practical book of practice. You can hear about what mindfulness is and learn it intellectually, and that's important and the transformation, the real deep appreciation of what it is, comes in the practice of it. And your book is so directly useful in that way. You say in why I'm sharing this new work, you say, to offer a variety of simple, portable and accessible practices that anyone can do in the outdoors,

regardless of background, religious affiliation, or meditation experience. So it's really a book a field guide that anyone can pick up. I thought we might just walk through a few of the meditations that I connected with based on some of my experiences. But actually, before I do that, I wanted to point out that you offer also an audio version that you read that you narrate, so you can actually listen to these meditations on audio and be guided, Yeah, which sounds kind of magical.

you just teach in a certain different way. So there's actually a lot more in the audiobook in terms of really feeling the fullness of meditation. The meditations are longer, I weave in different things. So for those who are interested, I highly recommend the audio version because also it means

you can take it outside. You can sit by a tree or stream or park bench and then just listen to whatever meditation you want, whether it's a sitting meditation, or you can take it when you're meandering and walking. So you highly recommend the audio so you're not encumbered by the book and you're just listening and then you're off.

Would you talk a bit more about that.

connected to the earth, whether indoors or outdoors. But when we go outdoors into a park or a garden or into a woodland, we might say to each other, oh, I'm going for a walk in the woods. I'm going for walk in the park along the beach, And that's

totally normal to say that. But what's really happening is when you go for a walk in the woods, you are entering a relationship, a relationship with those trees, with the BirdLife, the insect life, the animal life, with the flora, with the soil, and from any of the being's perspective in the forest that when they see you, hear you, smell you, sense you, you are part of the forest walking through the forest. You're just another animal in that moment,

that's part of the forest ecosystem. But because we have this sort of egoic reference point, I'm going for a walk and to have an experience in the woods, and we forget we're actually entering relationship and many of the beings are having experiences of us. I mean, a mosquito may have a very direct experience of you by thinking

your lunch. The birds will change their birds song as they see a two legged walking through their meadow, and a gopher snake will probably feeling our vibration, and certainly a coyote and a skunk and many other beings will be smelling our scent. So it's a lovely thing to be mindful of. Oh it's not just me having this thing, this experience, but it's a two way relationship. And then we can even refine that, like I live near redwoods, and you know, maybe you live near a park where

there's some old trees. I do find that the older the tree, I feel more something. I feel present. I feel, you know, these one thousand and two thousand year old redwood trees that just you know, these old buddhas, you know, just standing forever. And when I sit with them, i walk with them or against them, I definitely feel like I'm knowing them, and in some way, some way that my mind can't figure out that I'm being known or

felt or something that might be a projection. But you know, when you listen to indigenous teachers who live in the forest, they're very much aware that each of these beings, whether it's a stone being, a tree being, they have presence and sentience. And so it's a lovely thing to feel into that sense of knowing and being known.

can't see, smelling things we can't smell. There's just a mystery to that that I love to contemplate late and also, as you said, just that sense that it's not just me seeing the animals, you know, they are having a reaction to me. There's something about that that does make it feel much more relational to me. It's one of my favorite contemplations.

go past us. Yeah, other animals, you know, the pacidea and then ears are like radar dishes and that picking up a whole kaleidoscope of sound that we're oblivious to, just like when you go for a walk with your dog and it's like, oh, they're in a whole universe of smell and Yeah, it's lovely to realize awe view is one view of this huge panorama of experience.

with nature. So what an antidote to isolation and loneliness to know you're right at home and infinitely connected the minute you sort of step out the door and the beauty is just to become aware of it, right.

which is fine. It has its practical purpose. But we tend to then feel isolated, and we feel separate, and we feel lonely, and we feel disconnected, and we feel alienated. And even something as simple as you know, opening the window in the morning and maybe hearing one or two birds singing suddenly say, oh, I'm not alone. There's a

whole array of life life happening out there. That's beautiful, and we're connected because I'm hearing it, and I go outside and the birds might fly, or they might change their song, or they call, and so that's ahy, it's so important that we get outside. And then as you're pointing to, like when the bird is singing, we don't have to strain to hear the sound. It just brings

us into the present. Or maybe you walk outside like I'm doing here because it's spring and in my neighborhod there's a lot of people planting, you know, jasmine flowers and this and that and the scotch broom and it's so fragrant. You know, I walk in the eucalyptus and there's this pungent sort of eucalyptus mental thing, or the

wind blows. You know what I love about sitting in nature walking in nature is you know, we space out, whether it's a meditation or in a life, we space out and get lost in thought thousands of times a day. But you're outside and the wind slaps your face. You're suddenly back here or the stands behind the cloud and it comes out and you feel that warmth on your skins.

Are oh, and it brings you here. And then you notice a fly brushes by your hair and you feel your hair, and then you know you're walking in the park and you walk from the dirt or the trail onto the grass and like, oh, it's really soft and spongy and moist. And because we have all these senses, we keep being brought into the present. And what's lovely about being brought into the present Mostly most of the time,

not all the time. Most of the time, the present moment is infinitely more pleasant and forgiving than where we go with our mind. Our mind tends to go to stress, worry, plan angst, you know, and all kinds of catastrophes, worries, and mostly the present moment unless you're you know, in a really dangerous neighborhood or you know, you're in prison. For the most part, the present moment's okay. It might not be like perfect or what you want, but it's okay,

you know. And when we are side for me, it's even more okay. It's not just okay, it's usually pleasant, you know. I'm all about what works and what makes it easy, and going outside brings us into the present. It's easy and opens our heart. That's also, you know, especially in this pandemic post pandemic world we're now in, you know, there's so much stress, there's so much anxiety, there's so much mental health challenges, there's so much sense

of not enough time. And then when you go outside, if you sit in your garden or you're gardening, or you're watering your plants on the deck, which I do. I got mostly pots here where I live, and there's something just very soothing, just very relaxing, even just watering a plant, you know, just deadheading a plant or pruning like I just it's so satisfying, you know, just five minutes I will go out between sessions, you know, walk around and pull out some dead weeds, and it just

present sensory here. And we need more of that, you know, more I'm away from screens, more time, not stuck in our small rooms. Yeah, and connecting with this natural presence.

There's a lot of suffering there, you know, and a lot of missing out on the beauty and the gifts. But the practice of mindfulness every day or regularly and then be outside of nature practicing mindfulness, it's such a wonderful counterbalance. So we're correcting for the imbalance that exists so that we can live with more ease through our days.

I'm not really a gym person, but you know, it's good to train your body, strengthen your body, especially as we get older. And I had to thought myself, how why didn't I go for a bike ride? It was this beautiful still morning, and you know, usually we have to push ourselves through a little discomfort. You know, our homes are cozy, you know when we look out the window, and often it's like, you know, it's cloudy, it's grey,

maybe it's drizzly or foggy where I am. But I know, for myself, I know one hundred percent every time I go outside, and this is one hundred percent, I feel better. I feel more energy, I feel happier, I feel more connected. And maybe not the whole time. Maybe it's cold, windy day, and you know, I get wet, and you know there's some unpleasant parts of that, but I always feel brighter,

more spacious. And it could be, as I say, just going into my yard which is mostly concrete and driveway and not that actually pretty really, and just going to a mailbox which takes like twenty steps, and I look around, Oh, blue sky. Oh and there's my neighbor. Oh and there's the bird sitting on the tree building its nest. And just that is like it's very simple, and so we

just have to encourage ourselves. You know, for a lot of us, it's going to be taking a walk around our neighborhood and as I did when I was in London, noticing the gardens, noticing trees, notice looking up lownicing the sky, noticing what season we're in, and it's just very healthy. You know, we're social species, and you know that. I think the data now the average Americans spends ninety five percent of their time indoors, and that's not how we've

lived evolutionary. We lived more relationally. Like even when I walk down to the local shop and I get some milk, just that is sort of uplift. It's a break from screen, live and it's like these simple things they really make a difference.

and bringing mindfulness to that. So there's ways that we can integrate being aware when we're outside and it doesn't take any extra time. It's really the intention and the quality of a tension that we bring. You know, do we take that ten minute walk to the store through our neighborhood and we're just lost in worry or planning, or can we let that go and just be in our senses and being in the present moment and with appreciation,

or with curiosity, or with wonder. And it's such a whole hearted, uplifting experience.

present to what was around. So I love this idea, like we don't necessarily have to add something else to our day. We can take something we're already doing, but do it in a way with a slight change of orientation and focus that's really beneficial.

and then also subsequently reflect on it for ourselves. You say that nothing stays the same in nature, right, Similarly, we can include the awareness of our bodies changing landscape that we can notice how sensations, No sensations are forever right, they're changing constantly, they're intensifying, they're ceasing. So I just hope we can maybe spend a moment exploring how this shows up in nature and how that might awaken something within ourselves.

at it. One plant or tree that doesn't show signs of change, just like we're in springtime and we're coming out of the sort of fallow winter and the dead ground and all the dead grasses and plants. And then suddenly I was walking the woods yesterday and there's all these cattails like asparagus poking up through the ground, and just seeing that sense of part of the forest is decaying still from the winter, and half of it's now we're growing with saplings and new buds and bright green leaves.

And the weather here, we've had one day storms and then next day sun and the next day howling wind and beautiful, beautiful transience change e femorality dynamism where no two moments are the same. The light changes, the wind changes, the leaves change, the bird song, the breeze, the smell, like it's just this constant dance. Oh you go to the ocean. I teach a lot by the ocean, and just the restlessness of the waves and the surface and

the movement and the wind and the surf. And there's something again, the contrast not making our houses bad, but we build our houses in defense against change, against weather, storms, rain, you know, bugs, and so we keep all that out, so it creates a sense of relative stability. Right, There's not much changes in our house, which is fine, but it's sort of deadening to the senses and our brain.

As I was chatting with a couple of neuroscientists yesterday a couple of days ago, our brain is wired for novelty, novelty and change in stimulation. And I was really reflecting, as I've been hiking the last few days, nature is nothing but novelty. Like even if you walk the same hike, which I do often one hundred times every time you

do that hike, there's so much diversity and change. It's different light, different weather, different temperature, different shade, different birds and animals, and the tree's fallen down and things grown up here, and it just it's so stimulating and such a nice contrast to the stillness. And I could say sometimes the deadness of our built landscapes where we come into connection with reality. Reality is changing. It's always changing.

We're changing our thoughts, feelings, bodies, moods, and so is nature. And so it's a massive mirror of helping us realize, oh, life is changed, like life is dynamic, fluid, ephemeral, fleeting moving, and so am I my mind, my body, my relationships, my feelings, my everything, And so it normalizes it. You know,

we try to build so much against change. We try to stop our body aging, or try to you know, we grab onto a pleasant feeling we don't want that to change, or we know, we grow an orchid, like, don't die even though you're you're flowering for like six months. When it dies, I'm.

And so in those moments, connecting to the absolute law of change in nature and therefore it's true for me too, is such a wonderful gift.

for taking the time to come on. It's always a pleasure to talk with you, and it's inspired me to get outdoors more.

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