Frank Turner

or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Welcome to the show.

Our guest today is a singer songwriter from England named Frank Turner. To date, Turner has released five solo albums, two rarities compilation albums, one split album, and five EPs. Turner's fifth and most recent studio album, Tape Deck Heart, was released on April thirteen. In addition to playing the Olympics opening ceremony, Frank sold out Wembley Stadium, which, for those of you who don't know, is extremely large. And uh So, Eric, why did you want to have Frank

on the show? Because Frank is one of my all time favorite singer songwriters. I love his music. When we came up with the idea for the show, he was probably the first person that I thought of that I wanted to have on the show. Well, let's check out the interview. Here it is. Hi, Frank, Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Thanks for joining us. I'm really excited to have you on today because your music, for me is one of those places that I turned to pretty regularly for comfort and inspiration, and I think you're writing some of the music these days that probably talks most about the you know, the challenges of being human and a really honest, sometimes painful and yet ultimately sort

of life affirming way. I'm god, it's awesome as a sum makes um a mengry on the way and sketching out a building bum Bazana sees scavel just a gabby body. Else designs me alone. It's just got used to saying get up and get down and get outside, sunny day, your body. I think you're a You're a great guest for for what we're doing. And then I'll stop the

love parade in a second and ask you questions. The one other thing that that I really like about your music is I've got two teenage boys, and listeners of this show will know that I'm always looking for ways for us to connect, and your music is one of those things we we both where we all really love your music, and so it gives us a way to connect.

And one of the boys and I recently drove to Cincinnati to see you play, and I got really good memories of that, you know, the drive down, the drive back, the show, Uh even though you did uh say funk? I think about forty times and about twenty five seconds. But it's my mother complains that I have a dirty mouse, and she's right, but um, but I mean that's Cincinnati. So first of all, it's very calm, thanks very much, and I'm glad to have been of some sort of

positive use in this wretched world. But like I had to say it was a funny one, because yeah, I didn't have a bit of an issue with the heck of that night, and I let my tongue run away with me. But at that I side, I thought it was a constet. It was. It was a great show, and it's certainly memorable. Memorable given that it's funny because my my one son, a lot of his friends don't don't really know who you are. They're they're into a lot of hip hop and stuff, and he always refers

to you. They're like, what is that? And he's like, that's Big Frankie t So. That's your that's your nickname over here, I guess in Ohio, Big Frankie t So. Um. Our show is called The One You Feed, and it's based on the old parable of Two Wolves, where there's a grandfather and he's talking to his grandson and he says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us. One is a good wolf and represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,

which represents things like hatred and jealousy and fear. And the grandson stops and thinks and he says, well, grandfather, which one winds and the grandfather says the one you feed. So I'd like to start off the podcast by asking you what does that parable mean to you in your life and in your work. Well, I mean I think, um,

it's it's it's a good's it's a classical parable. I mean for me, Yeah, I definitely kind of have a balance personally between kind of creative urges and destructive verges and self destructive versions and between, I mean to put it more kind of protactically, the desire to kind of get up and write songs and do things and go out and engage with the world versus the desire to sit on my sofa and eat crisps and watch Boring Kelly and hate the world, you know, wrapped up in

a sleeping bag, and um, and yeah that you know, there are days when one one is doing better than the other. But I do my best to kind of lean on on my better instincts if I can. You know, I said, I am generally possessed by this feeling that there's not enough time. Um, and there's more that I could personally do creatively and personally and all the rest of it. So, um, that is something that's kind of burns inside me. Definitely, Yeah, exactly. I was having a

conversation with a friend last night. We were talking about how long we wanted to live, and he was like, Oh, I don't know, it doesn't matter if it's that much longer, And I was thinking, I've got so much I want to get done. I hope I've got to hope. I've got plenty of time ahead of me. Um. Friendship comes up in a lot of your songs, UM, and sort of talking and talking about how people other people help you to be that best version of yourself. UM. On the most recent record, the Way I Tend to Be

is a pretty straightforward example of that. But shun all you do me. You could save me from How important are your friends and the people around you in being the person that's outdoing things and not the one curled up on the sofa. Very important. I mean, the thing is something that I kind of it's something that's kind of central to the way that I kind of look at the world, and it's a makes as me. There are people who don't feel like this, but apparently there are.

But for me, I don't have an enormously high opinion of myself in my heart of hearts, you know what I mean. And I certainly think that most of my kind of friends and associates are kind of better and more inspiring people than I am, you know, in in that sort of cold dark knight of the soul or whatever. And I love being around the people that I choose to be around because they find of inspiring and they're inspiring me to try and kind of not give up on myself, you know, and and and just sort of

work and trying to better myself. And yeah, that's that's hugely important to me. And plus also I mean, you know, just in a from a practical sort of historical point of view for me, you personally, I've had some kind of rough patches of my life and and it's always been friends with the family that's kind of come from in those situations. So, um, yeah, something that's very important to me as a follow onto that, you know, talking

about rough patches. Um. You you know, the most recent record, You've got some pretty graphic descriptions in there on you know, telltale signs around you know, cutting yourself when you were younger. Um. You also are um an ambassador for something called Calm c A l M. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that is. Yeah, that's a campaign against something miserably. Um. It's a UK based charity that

deals with mental health issues. And and the kind of the main thing that about the sort of mental health I think Gemery speaking is is stigma and it is just the fact that you know, in some corners of society it's still kind of some of the people are ashamed of and embarrassed about and therefore reluctant to talk about.

And the worst thing, in my experience and in my opinion for people who have mental health issues is isolation and that feeling that you've gotten there's no one you can talk to, there's no one's can understand all that kind of thing, And I think that the world could be quite rapidly. He's a better place, you know, from that point of view on the issues of mental health. Of people are just more comfortable about talking about it, and that's the main thing that calms working towards and

hopefully I can help them. Yeah, I think that's that's really back to the idea of friendship and all that, but getting out and talking to people. And I agree a lot about the stigma there, and I don't know if it's just the sort of people I'm following and the places that I pay attention. It seems that that really is starting to lift to some degree, But I never know, am I seeing a bigger pattern? Am I just seeing what part of the world I'm focusing on?

But well, and I think the other thing for me that I find can be quite deceptive in my own life is is the fact of getting older. If you and your friendship group get older and hopefully get a little wiser, sometimes it's tempting to think that, hey, you know, the world is turning into a better place and everybody's figuring this out. But you've got to remember that you know, how you were when you were sixteen is how sixteen

year olds are now, you know. And and there's always going to be that kind of like drive to educate sort of new people coming through or whatever. And yeah, they're just they're just I'm will often remind did that there's still a lot of what to do on these kind of things with with sort of conversations you see between other people who on necessarily close your own friendship group or pay groups or whatever. Yeah, exactly, And I it's important for me to remember that having teenage boys

trying to remember like they just they can't. They're incapable of seeing the world the way I see it with the years of experience and maturity. But I can relate. I can be like, oh yeah, I remember feeling exactly that way, and and uh, I think that's important. Um. One of the other things that you're really known for and that I like is you you bring You bring a real sense of community to your music. I know you've talked a lot about your your background in the

in the punk rock hardcore scene. At the same time, you also really have this thing where you say that you can only say it, but you sort of act out that you're no different than your fans. You're just another person. Um. You know you've got that line in Try This at Home that everybody really seems to resonate with.

It really hits both of those topics. Well, yes, to go diff does that thing as rock stars as just people who play music of them and some of thematics, so quick time off to a stereoyt that yeah, you can do that saying this country. I guess my question would be, as you're getting increasingly more famous, because it seems to be happening. I don't think you're an overnight success by any stretch of the imagination, but the last couple of years seemed like there's a real acceleration there.

How is it hard to keep both those things that I think are really important to you, the community and the sense that you aren't different from your fans. That that seems like it's got to be getting harder to maintain. Um, you know it is, and it isn't. I mean, it's a funny thing. I have some feel like the world is expecting me to kind of give up on those things just because you know what I mean, just because I would sort of seem like now I would seem

like the time to do it or whatever. And I'm kind of like, well, you know what, I need more specific reason for that. I mean, for example, like you know, email just on my website and the whole time somebody summer goes, oh, now it's time to take that down, and you can't keep that going. Can't stand all day kind of replying samail and stuff, which I do, And it's like, well why not? I mean, you know, I

can if I want to, which I do, so I will. Um, But I mean I think that, you know, I mean, I have, I hopefully have various kind of measures to keep me grounded. I mean, the guys in my band all ripped on me endlessly. That's everybody's favorite topic is taking the looking out of me um, and I just kind of trying my best not to think very hard about things like, you know, success and prestige and all

that sort of thing. I like to just kind of concentrate on playing a good show and and you know, being being a good musician and a good performer and all that kind of thing, which is what I've always been trying to do. I think the other thing to say as well is that you know, I've got a bit of beer my bond about this lately. The word punk means a million different things, and it's utterly boring to get into arguing it's over what punk rock actually

means or what it's definition is. I've wasted my life arguing about that, and I'm not gonna bother doing it anymore. However, the thing is the thing that I kind of remind myself of, and that it is still really important to me, is when I was a kid, punk was sold to me as hey, you you hate everybody around you, feel totally socially alienated and removed from from your peers and your peer group. Come to us, and you can be

anybody you want. You can be Will Will. It's it's safe, and it's kind, and it's non judgmental, and it's just this place where you can just be you. And that was so important to me when I was a kid. It was the idea of punk rock as a refuge and and and that kind of vibe. Sometimes in various punk scenes, I think that gets kind of forgotten or put aside or lost in favor of whether it be sort of politics or aggression or or sarcasm or whatever.

But for me, that that's the most important thing about punk and I hope that a sense of that maintains at my shows, in the sense that it's not music for hit people. It's not music for a certain kind of demographic or social scene or kind of fashion trend or anything like that. I love the fact that's people from all walks of life and come to my show. I don't insider myself to be cool. I'd never have done, and I don't want to make music for cool people.

Cool people are welcome to come but do you know what I mean, It's like it's it's supposed to be this kind of this the community in the sense of it just being a kind of like, Hey, it's cool, you can be here and you m just be whoever you want to be and nobody's gonna point anything to anybody. And that's the kind of vibe I want to get on my first Yeah, and I think you do. I'm I've got it probably about ten years on you, So

I was. I was really more involved, kind of directly in those days when when punk and hardcore was sort of the d I Y scene was breaking here in the US, and so I remember those things very clearly. And the truth is, I haven't felt anything close to that since some of your recent shows that I've been at here, So I think you're you're doing a great job of keeping that together. I know for me, one of the things that that feeds my good wolf is uh is music. And I mentioned earlier that your music

is something that I turned to a lot. I don't think there's been a song written that I can remember that is more direct about to the redemptive power of rock and roll than I still believe sell sameless all after all, something's a simple, something so small heard it though, after all it's rock and roll. My question for you would be, what do you listen to? What are the things that you turn to when you really need that sort of that lift or that that affirmation of life,

those sort of things. Mm hmm, Well, I mean, you know, I could we we could get very specific and different kind of flavors of life fascination that are required and what I would go to from my rescuing book of records, you know, Um, I mean I listened to music a lot and it's kind of I'm kind of a boring person. That's what I really care about his music, you know,

in rock and roll specifically. I mean my my absolutely go to band that I couldn't live without as a Canadian, a Canadian indie band called The Weaker Ants, who I just adore and and worship and love. And there's a kind of there's a warmth and and a friendliness to there. But but I mean it's intelligent, complex music that like there's just a kind of welcoming forgiving kind of vibe

to what they do that they love. There's a there's a line in one of their earlier songs where John the singer says um, he says we're talented and bright, which means we're lonely and uptight. And I always thought that was such a wonderful line, you know, and and it's just so so many great lines in that song. He's like, you know, we've got this store boat way of saying that we're okay, and we've learned how to cry in title silence and it's you know, glories. I

could go on about looking at it forever. So yeah, that definitely my go to the band excellent. Yeah, he's uh. I think he released a solo record a couple of years ago that was really good that I liked a lot.

He did well. You know. Funny thing about that, I actually end up writing the press release for solo record because John sent me an advanced coffee of the album to see what I thought about the mix I seem to remember, and I was like, whatever to the mix, man, this is some of the best songs I've heard in years, and um and yeah, I was really excited about it, and he asked them to write the press release for the record. So a great piece of work. Yeah, it is.

It is excellent. You touched on it earlier a little bit. Um. This this this self destructive side of you know, and you've you've talked about it in various songs. Um in perfect tense is one, recovery is another. This this the the the the self destructive tendencies and and there there is a balance in that right between the you know, the drinking and drugs are there's always a risk there and you've you've certainly shown signs of regret or concern. How do you feel. Do you feel like you're in

an okay place with all that stuff? Now? Um? Yeah, mostly, I mean it's always a bit of a bouncing act. Um. I've certainly, I've certainly had my kind of my my times with with drinking drugs in particular. And it's a funny thing because there's that kind of weird kind of half light where it's supposed to be something that's fun, but at the same time I know that it's something

that's quite damaging to me as a person. And also more specifically, I think one of the things is, you know, I make my living from my voice, and I think anybody who's a singer is very very conscious about their voice at all times, and all that stuff destroys my

voice that you wouldn't believe. And there are times, you know, if I get up for long tour and I'm feeling really really pent up where that kind of stuff part of it is getting out of your head and sort of that relief or whatever, the part of it is actually kind of a sort of subconscious or conscious attempt to kind of damage the part of me that that makes my living to you know what I mean. And yeah, I mean I've I've had my kind of ups and downs of that, but I'm feeling pretty good at minute.

So h happy days excellent. You've you've had challenges the latest tour with your back. The song losing Days is certainly as I'm getting older, I recognize that more and more time is just it is. It is completely getting getting away from me. Kid days used to take breaking always greatness and greatness, that's all. Yeah, I mean, I think some a kind of an idea that I'm kind of intrigued by, and I think losing Days was a first attempt to examine, but wouldn't be at all surprised

if it comes up again. It's just this idea that after a while that for me The definition of youth is that point in your life when there are no limits of possibility could be anything. I mean, there's still time to be an astronaut or a you know, an ice hockey player or an archaeologist or whatever, you know. And then there's that kind of I think the part of kind of getting older as you suddenly realize that there is no way now in my life that I will ever be an astronaut. It's that that that avenue

is closed to me. I'm too old, you know, if you even start trainings on that idea. And and that's a sort of that's an intriguing point in point to reach because suddenly that's the moment where self definition becomes irrevocable, do you know what I mean. It's like you are the person you are, and that's who you're going to be,

full stop, and there's no going back now. And and there's a line of losing days about small, small ideas become commitments and things that perhaps even at the time when you were kind of getting into them, you weren't really thinking about them all that much. And suddenly realize that's part of that's youth, that's it's never going to change. And I don't want to be really pessimistic about it, because I mean, at the same time, it's a question discovering who you are and who the person you'll be

remembered as is. But um, it's it's an interesting moment in life to have that thing where you suddenly kind of go, yeah, you know, I'm i'm, I'm, I'm in I'm in the meat of the sandwich. Now I'm no longer in the bread, Like this is it, this is life exactly. I I agree with that. I still think at any point that we are in life, we've still

got some latitude, but that latitude does shrink. And when you said that, it actually just hit me because what I talked to my kids about, you know, I I pushed them on getting good grades and all that boring parent ship and um, and when they when we talk about it, what the reason I say is, I want my I feel like my job as a parent is to keep all of your options is open as long as I can, so that you can make whatever choice

you want to make when that time comes. And I hadn't realized until you just said that why I sort of feel so uh passionate about that is because mine are certainly, you know, a lot of them have closed. Given given where I'm at age wise, that's an interesting concept. Yeah, yeah,

I agree. You've got perhaps my favorite rider in your contract that I've ever heard of, which is you have a dog writer, which means that if anybody at the venue you're playing at has a dog, they need to bring him into work that day so you can play with them. Yeah, as as long as they're cool and comfortable with it. I know some people aren't comfortable with their dogs around other people, all being in the live

music environment and that kind of thing. But yeah, I grew up with a lot of dogs in my life and I'm absolutely a doordogs and um, it's just there's no way that I could have my own dog with the way that I live at the moment. You know, I'm away months at the time most of the year. It just doesn't make any sense. Um. I mean, I've got a few friends who have dogs, and I'm a

regular visitor around there is when I get home. But it was kind of a cool idea that my torments are had, and it's looking because quite a lot of the time I get to hang out with those dogs are very cute Yeah, that's great. My my partner here and I between us, we've got five of them in our houses. So if you come to Columbus again, we can we can shower you in dogs, I imagine. Okay, excellent, that sounds delightful. One last question. You're working on a

on a new record. Any idea when we might see that. Yeah, I'm hoping to get the new record finished by the end of this year and out at the very started. Next is the idea. Um. I mean, I'm very excited about it. Actually, we've got a lot of kind of in my opinion, really strong material together, and the guys and the Sleeping Souls, my band were kind of um, yeah, we're sort of working up new songs and sound checks right now. That's what I was doing just for this conversation.

And yeah, it's it's an exciting time. I think that they're going to be I think it's going to be a strong record. Um. And it's kind of it's sort of a relief to me that I still have things that I'm really excited and passionate about saying. There's no sense of me forcing myself to bother to write new songs or whatever. It's like these. Yeah, you know, I'm excited. I'm pumped for it. Um. So yeah, I mean hopefully beginning next year with another record and and it'll be

it'll be a good I hope. Well, I'm I'm definitely looking forward to it. Uh. And I'll let you get back to working on that. That's probably more important than yapping with me. If you do one thing, tell Nigel that I think he's the best drummer in rock and roll today. For me, I would appreciate that. I will I happen to agree and I will tell him that. All right, Well, thank you very much, Frank. It's been a pleasure having you on. Yeah. Thanks, thanks for chatting

to me. Okay, take care bye. You can learn more about Frank Turner and this podcast in our show notes at one you Feed dot net slash Frank Turner