Fierce Love with Sonya Curry

We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their

good wolf. Yeah, thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Sonja Curry and entrepreneur, educator, and founder of the Christian Montessori School of Lake Norman in North Carolina, as well as the co host of the Raising Fame podcast. She is the mother of Stephen and Seth Curry and said L Curry Lee, and often speaks about her experiences as a mother, educator and Christian sharing testimony about our faith and parenting and education. Today, Sonya and Eric discuss

her book Fierce Love, a Memoir of Family, Faith and Purpose. Hi, Sony, welcome to the show. Well, thank you Eric for having me and giving me the opportunity to come on and talk about the book. And I look forward to just spending time with you this morning. Yes, me too. We're going to be discussing your book, which is called Fierce Love, a Memoir of Family, Faith and Purpose. But before we do that, let's start, like we always do, with the

parable and the parable. There is a grandparent who's talking with a grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second, looks up and says, well, which one wins? And the

grandparents says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and the work that you do. Wow, it's such a beautiful parable. And I was actually listening this morning to Pastor Rick Warren, and one of his devotions this morning was about, you know, cultivating a healthy life and relationships. And one of the things that he highlighted this morning was the fact that what we feed

our brain is very very important. That you know, science used to say that, you know, our brains are fully developed by um I think age twelve as an adolescent, but as Scripture tells us, is to conform no longer to the ways of the world, but be transformed in our mind. And so he reminded me that every day, the words that I say to myself, the things that I read, the music that I listened to, the friends and the people that are surround myself with, to be

very careful about words. And when the negative words come up or I'm exposed to to cast them aside and replace them with positive words and as the Bible says, with the truth, because a lot of the negative are really just lies. And we need to know what God says about us, who we are while we're here, and

what we're supposed to do, what's our purpose. And so I needed that reminder this morning, you know, and now I'm getting it twice, so I'm just gonna wait for the third confirmation at some point during this day about feeding my mind, feeding my mind through scripture, which will then feed my spirit, and that it's a process, Eric, it's a process that it's not gonna happen overnight. It's not something that Okay, I'm just gonna be a happy person or I'm just gonna make the best choices. You can't.

You have to develop the habit of wanting to make good choices. That's what I do. That's what I try to do in my life every day with you know, staying close to the word, having great people in my life to be sound counsel for me. And then even when I ran my school, um that still it gets that it is still operating, you know, letting children know that that you know, it is all about them, that they are empowered to create the life that they would like to have and that God has put hit them

on this earth to fulfill. So it's a habit, it's an everyday practice of creating the habit of making good choices. I love that. That's a beautiful answer. You know. I am struck by how different urinized potential spiritual beliefs are, But with anybody who's deeply committed to a spiritual life,

what I find is so much commonality. It feels like on the surface there can be a lot of differences, but at a deeper level, the ways than which we're trying to really hear a voice that's deeper and more true and more beautiful and live according to that is very,

very similar. As I was reading your book, I was just struck over and over and over again by really the depth of your commitment to really trying to live a certain way, and really it being about you living that way, really being about you stepping up and saying, all right, here's the person I want to be, and

here's the reasons why. There was a lot of highlights I did where I was like, that just sounds like if you took away, you know, a couple of words, it would sound like something that could be in many different faith traditions. Absolutely, I think that's the point. I think the spirit is in us, for those of us who asked for it and for those of us who truly want to live by it. Um, there's one thing of it being in you, but another to really try and let it lead and be the navigation for your

life on a day to day basis. And so you know, all we can do is, Eric, I just try to get up every day, and I just tried to remind myself who I am, who I belonged to, and what I'm supposed to be doing, and then I try to just make the best decisions that I can. And then I try to give myself a lot of grace because you know, I came out of a childhood, a young adulthood of just religion and going to church and not really having a relationship with God, like God, just being

somebody up in the clouds. And here's this book of instruction, and you know, I'm going to be condemned to hell if i don't follow it word by word. And you know, I looked up at one point, Eric, and I was miserable because I was just trying to check the boxes. And if I do good, then I am good. And you know, I had to come to um, come to Jesus, as I would say, with myself, and and he came to me with that is that you know, the value isn't just in just the sacrifices, but it's in a

broken and could try it hard. And so every day trying to check my heart, check my heart and do the best that I can and then leave the rest up to God to just the next day to show me what I need to do better. You know, at the end of the day, if I do that, I can sleep at night. But if I'm trying to work for his love or from trying to please others, then it's not a relationship. So I'm learning that I'm growing in it every day and just trying to give it

all that I have. Yeah, you talk about it. Thirteen You told your mother and grandparent that you didn't want to get baptized and you felt like, you know, I don't really feel this right now. So there's that phase of your life. Then there's a phase it appears where you start going back to church when your kids are young, and there's something about the ritual of it that's really valuable and the community, and it feels like the right thing to do. But you're not on the surface. You're

a level deeper. But then comes a time where you really plunge all the way in. Tell me about what it was that brought you to that point that was sort of where you went. And I'm using my own words here, these are not your words, but you went kind of all the way in and maybe the way I just described that as a mischaracterization, and if so, please feel free to correct any part of it. Well,

I would say that I just completely surrendered. I think that was the point where, you know, I go from being a young child told that you're going to go to church, and it was created for me the habit of attending bricks and mortar of church. And it was a family church. So my family lived on the same block of the church, and you know, it was just

part of our community. And so you went there because everyone else in the family was going, and you know, my grandmother was always like, this is the right thing to do, so you went. There was a strong sense of community there, and it was this home. It was just another extension of our home. And then I move into Okay, you need to be saved, and you need to be saved so you don't go to hell. And

so started that those confirmation classes doing that. You know, I want to be the obedient person and I want to you know, make everybody happy, and I don't want to go to hell. So if this is what I need to do. Then I'm going to do it again. They're going back to this sense of the whole time I'm taking classes, the joy, the joy was not there, and the more that I thought about not going to hell, and then okay, looking at the people around me. I

talked about this in my book. You know, they did whatever they kind of wanted to do during the week, and then they showed up on Sunday and you know, singing in the choir and they're doing, you know, doing all the service to help our church run. And that was confusing to me. But to be honest, at the time, the things that they were doing during the week, they were happy, and it was just like, Okay, here's happy people. And then they go to church and they're kind of

playing the role. And then I would see, you know, this other church where they were just what I saw in my mind was just so like totally religious, and it was just like, y'all are miserable, Like they weren't happy. I So I was just confused as an adolescent, like what is going on? Like I'm a joyful person anyway. I love to laugh, That's just my love language. So it wasn't speaking to me as a person that if I, oh, well, Lord, I'm guess I'm gonna go to hell because I just

want to be joyful and happy. So then I go off to college. Then I have my own children, and I missed that community, the safety of the church, the bricks and mortar, and I missed truth. I missed somebody just telling me the truth. Because I'm a young adult with kids and I want to raise them right. And there was just something in me that was like, Okay, I got my mom and my major arts and the family to kind of help me do this, but I want God to tell me how to raise them. And

so church provided that for me. And then I was still you know, as I say in the book, I'm going out, I'm partying, and I'm enjoying life. I mean, I don't have any worries financially, and I'm enjoying life. I'm having a great time. But then I start making not so good choices and realizing that the joy in

the world wasn't fulfilling me. There was a lack of substance in me and a piece and a different kind of joy, and just got to a point where it was just like, Lord, there's got to be something else because this kind of joy in the world is not get me anywhere but in trouble. And so we went to church that one evening and it was just like always say. It's like the pastor speaking to me, like you're staring at me, and it was like, if you're

tired of doing the same thing, try Jesus. And I was like, okay, I'm just willing to try it, and I'm very adventurous and I'll do and I'm like, all right, because this other stuff is not getting it, and you know what, how about that? How about I just try

and when God calls you, you can't ignore it. And that was just one of those situations where it was like it was time and he said, you're finally coming to me because you want me, not because it's expected of you, not because you're the good You want to check it off, you want to do what people want you to do and please others. You're doing it because you want me. And it was that moment it was like I'm going and my life changed dramatically after that. Yeah.

I think that's such an interesting point because we all are very easily. I can't come up with a better word than this right now, seduced by the things of the world right, And some people stay stuck in that because they can't get the things they think they want, and so they think if I get those things, then I'll be happy, which is its own kind of trap. The other side of it is some people get kind to everything that we think we might want. And you

have a little of that, right, had a lot of that. Yeah, at this time, you're married to a husband who's an NBA player, and you have all the things that most of us would look at and go if I had that, then i'd be happy. But you describe how very clearly

you were not and you needed something deeper. And I think that's just such an important lesson if we can learn it that all this time that we spend thinking it's this thing, it's this thing, it's this thing, ultimately those things bring happiness for a moment, for a little while. I'm not saying that some of them aren't better than others, but ultimately a lot of us will find Okay, it's time to go to a deeper level, which is what

happened to you. I mean, you were you were struggling, right, You weren't sleeping well, you just were not doing well. And there's a song by Mary Mary the title Escapes and Now, but it talks about no, you see the money, you see the clothes, the cars and all this, but you don't see me on my knees in my closet praying.

And that's the life that was happening. You know. They saw the cars, they saw the trips, they saw the fun sonya, and they saw you know, the clothes and everything, but they had no idea what was happening behind closed doors. And how much I cried, how many moments in my life for a long long time. I cried and faded my prayer closet hours and said to myself, how do you how do you have so much going on around you?

You have a three kids, you have a job, you have a school, you have teachers, you have friends, glory, you have you know, a husband. You have all this stuff going on, and everybody's looking at that, and you still feel so alone. That's where I was. It was just emptiness because all of those things were feeding my flesh, you know, the party in and all that socializing was

feeding my flesh. My kids were occupying myself, giving me something in my school, giving me something to do, and you know, my husband at the time was the companionship, but there was just you know, all those things that can be around you, but if you aren't full within yourself, you can't even really absorb that and appreciated or utilize it the way that it should be and without a lack of a better word, even value all of that right, because you're just empty. And you know, that's what the

relationship with Jesus gave me. It started giving me that fulfillment of knowing who I was, who I was and him, and then things just started looking different and I got a different kind of power. I got a different kind of confidence, and it changed everything. Yeah, it's a really confusing place to be to have everything you think that

you want and still not be happy. We're broadly speaking, not taught about what to do when that happens, because again, for a lot of people, you never get everything you want. You're in the continual chase, and if we're not careful, even when we get a lot of the things we want.

My experience has been you just move the goalpost. Well, okay, that's really great, but if you know it's it's it's the next thing you describe kind of what happened after that, going to church on that Wednesday and having a moment where you decided to surrender. And I'm just gonna read it because I think it speaks so well to what living a spiritual life often just looks like. And you said, I've committed to my walk with God. I've changed my life.

I pray, I actively work towards seeing the good in every situation. I try not to act irrationally when it comes to big decisions without careful thought and prayer. I see each day as part of a spiritual process. I look at every twenty four hours as a piece of a whole, a chapter in the Holy Book of Life. I end each day after my kids have gone to bed, with the final reflection, a survey of the previous twenty four hours. I mean, there's just so many really great

practices in there. That's the part where I read it and I was, like, what you described. When I'm doing that, I tend to be a pretty content person. Yes, And for me, what I've just learned in the last two years is all of our lives are made up of chapters. This chapter's this chapter is this chapter, whether that chapter is a day, or whether that chapter is a month, whether that chapter is a year, whether that chapter is five years, get through children, getting whatever it is, and

then retiring. All of us have a book in us that is made up of these chapters of in our lives. And you know, for me, it slows me down to do those things and evaluate, because then what tends to happen when I don't do that? These things just snowball and snowball and snowball, And then I'm looking up and I'm going, how did I get here? You know, in scripture tells us you just don't wake up one day

and you're a center. You know, we're born broken that way, and then every day we're making decisions every day that lead up to something more catastrophic or drastic in our lives. And so trying to just keep inventory along the way, for me, just helped me manage my life. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict and I got sober

in a twelve step program. And in the twelve step program, there's twelve steps, obviously, and steps four through nine are kind of about cleaning up the mess that you've created up till so there's a lot of work to be done, because for most of us, we've made a lot of mess at that point. But then step ten is what

you're describing. It's the step where it reads continue need to take personal inventory, and when wrong promptly admitted it, it just meant that we tried now to stay on top of it so we didn't have a big mess

to clean up again later. You know, it's like all right, it's it's a whole lot easier if you clean up your little messes as they go because then you don't walk in, you know, to use like a house cleaning metaphor, you don't walk into the kitchen one day and it looks like a bomb went off in there, right, You're like, okay, you know, yeah, I gotta wipe down the counter, Okay,

I can handle that absolutely. And you just don't walk in and just sit down and like I don't even know where to start, and his kid exactly, you just take everything is throwing out. You're just kind of like irrational about that as well. So every day just helps keep your hands on it. One of the big chapters

in your life is Montessori. Yes, you were looking for preschools for staff and schools for him, and you found one and it didn't turn out to be the right one, And then you got into Montassori, and you went further and further into the point where you created your own Montessori school. What I was wondering is are there some Monasori principles that you carry with you to this day that inform how you live and who you are? And

if so, what are those? Well? I think one pillar of Montessori that has stuck with me is the fact that all children can learn. You're in the classroom and teachers like, oh, you know, just dismissing the child because they might, you know, be a little bit more challenging or whatever. All children can learn, all of us can learn,

and so that sticks with me. I tend to be a nurturer and I tend to kind of stay in situations longer than probably I should because of my hope for helping people to grow and to find the answer that helps with my relationships. That helped it with my children was, you know, whenever there was a challenge with them and raising them, and even now we'll have conversations if they're having challenges in their lives. It's like there

is an answer, Go find the answer. And so montes story was very influential in our lives for that reason. You know, every child can learn go find the answer. So don't just preach it. Somebody's just not in a textbook, you know, Go discover how to find what you need. Another one was completion of task. You know, you starting something and you finish it. And I would tell my kids all the time, don't start a sport. You can finish off the season because people are counting on you,

but you don't necessarily have to do it again. And so now, you know, even in my life, you know, some people can say, well I didn't complete a task that personally I was just in and got out. Well that's a topic for you know, another time. But what I'm learning from that now is don't get into something that I'm not going to be able to finish, Like, really pay attention as I'm moving forward in my life, pay attention, and don't get into something that I then

feel obligated to be in. That's just not good because that sticks with me. And so I might stay in something because I'm like, I need to finish this out. And then I think with Montessori two in the classroom. You know, every child was treated the same, but differently, and so I talked about that now with my children and even with my grandchildren and even with my you know,

other relationships that I'm in. Everybody is different, so I need to treat them fairly, but I don't need to treat them equally, if that makes sense, because you have to deal with people where they are, and so I think we get sometimes caught up in I want to

be fair, so that means treating you equally. Well, I'm going to treat you respectfully and fairly the way we interact in this particular moment, in this situation, and so, you know, treating everybody uniquely and celebrating their uniqueness as well, because we all add to each other. We have to have this thing hiring everybody at my school that was the same. We would never grow because they're all the same.

So I've got to like open it up to you know, there's, like the Bibble says, there's so many different gifts in the Body of Christ, and so we need to make sure we were surround ourselves with different people to make ourselves grow and stretch, and we add to them and they add to us. Tell the story if you would, about what made you pull step out of the school he was in and go to Montasori, because I think

there's some really interesting things in that. I we just remember going there that day and like I said, it was a church preschool and they were, you know, nurturing my son and the time he was two and a half when I took him there, and then he was turned three and went in and there were you know, ice cream cones on the wall, and each ice cream cone had a dip appalled on top for the number your child could count to. And you know, Stephen was up to fifty, but they just stopped he could count

higher than that. And then there were other kids cones that had no dips on them whatsoever. And you know, my first instinct was, Oh, I'm so proud I'm an educator and my child so smart. And then I sat in there for a while and I was like, looking at the other children, I'm thinking, what is that little boy thinking when he looks up and he's wondering why there are no colorful ace cream scoops on his comb?

Eric Honestly, it just hit me in my core and I'm like, why am I even thinking about this because I went from being, Oh, my child's genius, and I got to find somewhere to challenge him to why am I even paying attention to this? And then the other was what about the parents that comes in here and goes, WHOA, my child's behind. We're gonna have to go home to night. We're gonna start counting it, because that would be something that I would do if seven wasn't, I'll be like, oh, no, devil, tonight,

we're gonna be counting. He needs to start counting because that competitiveness is in me. So I was just having this whole like dialogue within myself and in my mind, which I knew because I recognized the educator of me because I always wanted to teach. And so, long story short, it was one this comparison all the time starts that

early without the adults even knowing that's what's happening. You know, they're just thinking, they're just hanging up some kids projects on the wall and oh this is great in the room's colorful, and they're not thinking that. But a child could be thinking that, and that c could stay with that child for years and nobody ever know. And then the parents the pressures that were on parents to create these perfect children, these smart children, while they're going to

work and while they're doing all these things. I just had some empathy in that moment for all that, and then I didn't know what to do with it other than Okay, had that moment, and now I need to find some place for my child that's gonna challenge him because he's a genius. And then just started asking own, you know, and people started talking about Montessori. I mean, I had had some experience with it in my undergraduate studies,

but not very much. And then went into the school and was sold just all the academic work that these kids were doing at three and four, but they didn't really know that it was really academic. They were having so much fun in a Montasory classroom, their three age groups in one classroom, so you've got all these kids on these different levels, and just they were happy, they were joyful, they were working individually, they were sitting together with a friend. It was just freedom and joy and

they were learning. And that's what hooked me was I want my kids to be in an educational system where they're joyful, happy, learning, independent, and able to excel at the level at the pace that they want to and that's what sold me on Montessori. Yeah, there's a monastory phrase I think you said in the book. It's called follow the child. And I think that what's so important about that is back to the pre school. There may be a kid who's got zero scoops on his cone.

He could be an incredible artist, but we don't know that because we're only measuring him off of how high he can count. And like you said, this stuff starts to become self fulfilling prophecies. Right. Your teacher treats you different, so it just builds. And I just thought that was a beautiful moment where you kind of went through all those reactions, like the normal pride and then like wait,

and still through that you went. Even though my son is, you know, clearly excelling here, it's not the right environment for him. I want him to go somewhere where he's challenged.

I wanted to ask you a question about competition because your family, you're all high level competitive athletes, at least your husband, you two boys, I think your daughter even competed in sports in college, so you're all high level competitive athletes, and certainly one rival where you talk about in the book is certainly comes up between the two boys from time to time. How do you work within yourself and within your family on okay, competition is a

value that we have. We all think it's good, but how do we not let it get out of hand? And how do we not let it become the thing that defines us? I think the last part of your question is the line in the sand. For me, I is don't let it define you. And so I love competition like no other. I am not a parent who let my children win just to let them win. I

just can't. I was playing trouble with my granddaughters who were like nine and seven last week while I was out there, and I'm like winning and I'm like celebrating, and I heard their house manager go, Braschi, are you letting the grand babies win? And I was like, oops, Nope, no I'm not. And so you know, for me, it

was yes, compete. But you know, first Eric, going back to Monta story, that was another thing about Monta story is it emphasized competing within yourself first, and when you do that, you set the bar for yourself without looking at anyone else. So if and and how that's measured

is if you gave it all that you had, you succeeded. Now, it may not have produced a product better than your classmates sitting next to you or whatever based on you know, whatever project was or whatever great that the teacher gave or whatever. But if you could really say you gave it all that you had and left nothing out, then you succeeded. So that's where competition comes from, right And so if you can build that, that builds self confidence.

You know, your value doesn't come from what you actually do compared to someone else. Your value comes from what you are putting into whatever you're doing. And now are you making that better? That's what I always say, you're cheating. You know, Stephan always gets the calls and da da da da, And I'm like, no, that's a cop out because at the end of the day, you're blaming him or the lack of a call or referee for your laws. We're not going to do that. You know, sometimes that

could be true. You know now we know that you know now that they're playing on the you know, high level, and we fuss about the restaurants time. But you know we can do that now but you know back then, no no excuses for the filling of defeat that you have within you, because you've got to get used to filling that because life is going to throw things at you all the time where you feel like you have

failed and you are defeated, and that's a lie. We started this interview talking about the words that we tell ourselves. That's a lie. You are not defeated. And I tell my kids all the time, the closed door is just your direction somewhere else. So when you just get up next day, you go at it and you go at it and you go at it until that door is closed. But you're not defeated, and you did not fail. You

just didn't accomplish what you wanted that day. And maybe what you think you should accomplish may not be accurate. So it's just about effort. For me, Eric was always about give it all that you have and let's move on. If you put all you have in the process, the product will produce itself, and and that's all you can do. Control what you can control. You share a story about being invited to speak in front of your church with a lot of people, and you share a pretty revealing story.

Are you comfortable sharing it with us. Sure, tell me about that and what made you decide to kind of get up and talk about what you did well? I think, you know, starting off, you know, the highlight I think to me wasn't necessarily the things that I talked about doing that. It was the fact that God was calling me to stand up and talk. And that was something that always had within me that people would compliment me on or you know, say, you know, we want you

to speak, and I'm like, no, I don't want to speak. No, I'm not going to do that, and I would always try to like and I'm still do that a little bit this book. I'm still getting through this where I try to kind of hide a little bit um and you know, our families in the lime light and I just kind of like to sit in the shadows. But people are constantly calling me out to share. And so that was the first thing, is learning not to be

scared to share when God tells me too. So going there getting in front of all the ladies, um was

one thing. And then bringing my daughter she was twelve, I'm not mistaken, twelve or thirteen things she was talking and bringing her and it was just laid on my heart in prayer that I need to bring my daughter because my daughter needs to start knowing her mother in a different way because she's an adolescent and she's becoming a woman, you know, a young woman, and it was just time for me to have her here her mother as a woman. And so I get there, and you know,

my favorite verse is Romans. But the Lord preparation for that had me study the whole chapter and I'm telling you, scripture after script starting verse one, and I was like, oh, my Lord, like this is my life, this is me.

And so within that, the major things that I talked about was, you know, being in the NBA and never really wanting to be a part of the NBA, finding value and hanging out with, you know, some of the other wives and being in the wives group just because I didn't want to be that wife, meaning you know, the trophy wife. You know, you just shot you you

do all these things. There was no sense for me that there was value in that, Like we weren't really celebrated, and so I was like, no, I'm not doing that. And so to my detriment, I'd have to say, Eric, sometimes I just made bad decisions because of that because I just wanted to prove a point and had a chip on my shoulders. I talked about that a lot with her, and ironically, she's in the NBA now very too,

Damien Lee, and so she's living this. Um. I have two daughter in laws who were living this and so God's just so good. So you know, that was good for her to hear that. And then the second was I talked a little bit about abortion, and I talked about the fact that I had had one, and then you know, some people, I was like, I can't believe you said that in front of your daughter, And I'm like,

you know what. It was hard, but I wanted her to understand that I was human too, and if she got to a point where she was ever faced with this, that there would be no shame for her, that she would feel comfortable to come to me and me helping navigate through any decisions she would have to make in that situation, and you know, not shy away, because I know of a lot of people who felt they couldn't. I felt I couldn't at the time, you know, go

to my mom, not because my mom. I just felt shameful, right, And so I didn't want her to feel that way and after that, you know, speaking there, you know other women that were in the n b A. I talked about, you know, the fighting, you know, infidelity, just the temptations that happened for everyone involved on both sides, and how God can take all of the things in my life and turn them around for good and I don't deserve

any of that. When people ask me about Jesus, I just told them that I'm like, I know, just like the blond man that was helled. I don't know what you all want me to tell you, but all I know is is if He can take all this and me and still do all this good stuff in my life and use it for good for other people, That's all I need to know. Now. I hope you find it, but there's no other words that I can tell you to convince you about and show you and tell you how good God is and the grace and mercy that

comes from being His child. So that was what it was about. It was about first getting over fear eric of just speaking and helping other people, being vulnerable myself and open myself up to criticism and shattering the facade of what everybody thought about. You know, me and our family and all of that, because you know, when you're walking around, you know, I didn't think I had a

mask on. I felt like I was just a shadow of who I was, and so coming into the light it was you know, I think about that all the time. I say, I'm kind of reptiling it because I'm the one that don't like to be cold, and when the sun's out, I'm just sitting out there, like, give me suns. And that's kind of how I felt like when I come out and I share things, it's just like I'm out of the shadows and I'm in the sun, and this feels so good. Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful story.

It's a brave thing to do, particularly in that environment. In those circumstances, I relate a little bit different in a lot of ways. But I remember when my boys were maybe fourteen or fifteen, I was asked to do a TED talk, and my talk was really about my addiction, and they knew that I had been an addict, but I never really went into what that looked like, what happened.

They were in the audience, and I remember being up on the stage kind of doing it and just having sort of that moment of like, I know this is the right thing to do, and I'm feeling a little bit anxious. And you describe sort of the car ride home with your daughter where you're sort of trying to feel out, like how she responding to what what I just did, you know, like coming out about you know

how I mean had an abortion. And the way you wrote that is really beautiful and it's just sort of a touching scene, you know, because you could see the twelve year old and her, and you can also see the bond between you guys. It's it's really lovely and seeing if she still loved me after all that, yeah, and you know her being able to see that, you know, if all that's going on, she knows I'll love her no matter what. Yeah, and then for her to hear that God will love her no matter what. But it's

scary as heck. You're right, I'm sitting here shaken now talking about it. Like it's that feeling just still never goes away. Yeah. So you are very devoted to being a mother. You were very focused on it. You say at one point that being a parent you have to bring your a game right. It's similar to playing the

sport at a high level. So we're really devoted. And then you know, one by one your children go off to school and your last child, your daughter, goes off to school, and you describe how really difficult this was for you. Talk a little bit about that, because I do think that we joke about emptiness syndrome and sort of passing, but I mean it's a real thing, like it could be really really hard when this happens, when our kids go off like this, well, because it's a

life changing event. I mean, you go from spending every day on this ritual of waking up in the routines and Okay, I've got to make sure these things and

just taking care of them. And so when they go off to college, and when she went off, she had been home with us five years, right at five years alone, it was just her and so when Dell was on the road, she would go with me to the boys gangs, and so she kind of became my traveling buddy, and our bond just grew deeper through that, and I just had time with her that I didn't really have time with the boys. And so when she left, it was like, now I wake up and don't have to worry about

her going to school. I have to worry about making her breakfast, Like what now is my purpose? But at the same time, I was also like trying to figure out school, you know, was I going to retire? It started having grand babies, and it was like, I feel guilty when I'm not at school because I'm going to see my grand babies so good, and when I'm with my grand babies because I'm not at school, and but what am I doing? Like both of these are blessings, So I'm not complaining about I know one of them,

but help me manage it. So then she leaves, and you know, they say they're like seven situations or incidents that happened in a person's life that are huge from the standpoint of life changing, but also a lot of people have bouts of depression because of it and are very stressful on a person's life biologically. And that's death, divorce, weddings, be bulding a house, retirement, and empty nesting and there's

one more. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm thinking about retire it's empty nesty I'm just like whoa And would go get up in the morning and drive to go to the grocery store and find myself Eric Sitton in the parking lot for forty five minutes, never got out of the car, pittle around on my phone and then would pull out the parking lot and go home, and you know, went to the doctor and for my regular check up, and he just started asking me questions and I was like, I just broke out crying, and

he was like, Okay, we need to help you. And realize that I had been in a state of depression because biologically I was used to doing certain things and I didn't have that rhythm anymore, and my body physically didn't know what to do with it, not alone my mind trying to figure out, Okay, I I know I've gotta to move on and find something else to do, but my body couldn't keep up with it at the time. So, yes, it's a real thing when your children leave your home.

And I think that we need to really give ourselves grace and really lean into it and just not move on to the next thing. I think we need to acknowledge it and embrace it and then move on to the next thing. You describe as part of working through this process that you decide you're as part of as part of this book just makes me laugh. Um, you decide that you're going to go off to a SPA weekend. Ye tell us about where you went, and I know where you went. I I know the place and you

know I do. So you're expecting to go off on a SPA weekend. You decide that you need time to be quiet, you need time to listen to here maybe what's next for you in your life, and so so off you go to this place and I'll let you kind of pick it up there. Well before that, I decided that my daughter had just graduated and she moved out to the West Coast, so she was out there.

Stephen was out there. Seth may have been out there because he was in the G League for the Warriors in Santa Cruz, or he may have been an erie, but he was somewhere. And for the first time, I just was not feeling them good. And I was like, I'm not going to go out there for Thanksgiving. And they were like what They were like, what's going on? Mom? And they've known over the years that when I kind of get in these modes where I'm like something's going

to happen, there's going to be a change. I'm seeking God for a direction that I would withdraw some and either go somewhere for a weekend, go on retreat, or I would just withdraw within the home and fast once a week or go in my prayer closet. So they were kind of used to that, but they weren't used to me not participating with them, like for holidays. So I'm like, yeah, y'all just have to truck you understand, Like I just need this one holiday and I just gotta go and I gotta be give with God. So

I'm like, let me spa. Let me I just need a spa. And yeah, some people accuse me if I talk about the glass one and I'm wanted these drinking Christians or whatever, but I'm like okay, uh. So I was like, okay, maybe they I just want to fireplace on spa. I want my journal, I want my Bible, and I wanted to wear in the mountains because the

mountaintop is my thing with God. Like God has met me, have been on other retreats and gone to the tops of mountains that He has met me there, and so in my mind visually, that's where I go to meet Him. So I'm like, I'm in the mountains and you know, spa fireplace and just sweats and I'm going to me God, and when I come down, I'm gonna know, I'm gonna

have some directions. Off I go and climb on in the mountain and you know you've been there, and it's very kind of rusty, and I'm like, all right, this looks a little different. But all I saw was the spot. That's all I saw on the website. I saw nothing else but the spot. So I was like, okay, where's some food. I'm starving. Go into the calf um like, okay, this is different. This is a cafeteria with then the

vegan food, and I was like, oh wow. And then I'm like, let me just go to my room, which is where the spot was, and maybe the world I was thinking, I'll walk in and be like, whoa, here it is luxury and whatever what I went for. And I get there and I'm like, oh my goodness, what in the world have And I'm I'm good for getting myself into some stuff. So I was having a lot of self talk with Sawny. I was like, what in

the world have you done? You did not go out and been of time with your kids for Thanksgiving to do this, and so I'm like, okay, getting room. Long story short, fund out that there was no alcohol on the property period, no one. That's an X. There were no fireplaces. That was an AX. The food was all vegan and I had never eaten vegan food ever before in my life. Oh my gosh. So I'm not even gonna be able to call room service because you have to go there for your three meals. So there's no

room and I'm like, oh gosh. And then my spot treatment and start till tomorrow and I'm way up here, but I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna have me a weekend because I didn't go out to the West Coast. So I got on my computer, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go over to I forgot the name of the other place, to Grove Park in or something like that, and I'm like, I'm gonna book me a place over there. Lord, please let them have a vacancy for me to tomorrow.

I'm gonna sleep tonight. I'm gonna get my treatment in the morning here and I'm gonna go over there. Well God said no, you're not, so got a did my treatment. They had a room, but then I was like, I'm gonna do the yoga mine as well while I'm here, and just every day Eric just something kept me there. I love the vegan food. I had never done meditation before, I've done yoga, but I laughed through the whole thing. I thought, this is so silly when I've done it

previously in my life. And then I was just like, I'm digging this yoga. I'm digging the meditation and my spa treatment was great, and I get back to the room and swear that I was gonna leave the next day. Well four days past, three nights, four days past, and it was the best experience I've ever had from the standpoint of God just really showing me again just how omnipotent he is. And just Sonny, if you say you really follow me, I'm really going to guide you. And

that was just another one in those examples. And then coming down, i'd had this friend it was like you need to go hiking. Sometimes I'm like okay, but kind of scared too or just it was going to be too inconvenient. And saw a sign it said hiking trail. Pulled over, got out of the car by myself get on this hiking trail and I'm alone and the cellphone doesn't work. Anything could have happened to me there, and so at the time Dell didn't know that I had

stopped and to do this trail. He didn't know this, and so nobody knew where I was at at all. But along this way, God just showed me just walk. You gotta walk. You don't know where you're going, you gotta trust me, and you're getting ready to go on a different journey. And then when I came off the mountain, it was it's time to write this book, and I was like, all right, here we go. Yeah, oh yeah. It was just one of those Sonia moments with God where it's like I just just just got a walk. Yeah.

You were in the Art of Living retreat Center, which is a Indian influenced style of breathing and really interesting approach, and it just cracked me up when you were describing getting there and being like, well, this is not what I expected. I had a different experience, which is a

little bit different, but it was similar. When I finally agreed I was going to go to rehab again, and I thought I was going to this place that was like I had seen it and it was on a golf course and it was like a country club, and we pull up to the place I'm actually going and it's an old tuberculosis hospital, and I was like, you have got to be kidding me. Turned out to be the best thing for me, though, As a way of wrapping up, I'm just kind of curious. So I know

that the book was the next thing for you. Your next purpose was to write the book. The book is written. I know you are have a very vigorous promotion schedule. Do you have a sense of what's next for you? This is my next right now. I am in this and trying to commit totally to this because again, you know, all the things that we get delivered through. I always tell people I don't really feel like I've totally been delivered.

You know, God heals us and delivers us out of things, but I tend to want to tell myself and live on He delivers us through them, so you know, the temptations of things and life will always be there. He just gives us that power to just trudge through and just get through it. And every time it gets a little bit easier and a little bit easier, but they don't just go away. Our challenges are nemesis. None of

that ever really goes away. And so with that fear, I deal a lot with fear, and people go what like, you know, your presence is just so like confident and you and I'm like, y'all don't have a clue. I've realized I'm a people pleaser. And when you're a people pleaser, you love people, you want to nurture in them, and you have a sense of fear. That is not a good combination that goes together. So it's not a good

recipe for for success. So this book has been a healing process for me too, of just being able to reflect on raising my children and those chapters of my life, because you know, as a parent, when you're in it, you're in it. And you know, I used to say I was so busy parenting, I don't know if I really really got to enjoy parenting. And so this book has given me an opportunity to enjoy the parenting from you know, a different perspective, just reflection, and so I'm

trying to enjoy that. But I'm also know that this book was meant for good and it has a purpose, and so the fear in me is, oh, I don't want to do these things. Oh, I don't want to go do this, and I don't want to do this and uh, and God saying no because this is my book. God saying this is my book and I need you

to go with it. I'm just gonna say, I'm just gonna be in this time and get up every day and feed myself with what I need to do this book right now until God says time for something else, and not get ahead of him, because I will have a tendency to do that as well. But He has proven to me to mean times to count when he ready for me to move, He lets me know and

sometimes ignore him, Yes, come back couple times. But that's what I love about him, and I know how much he knows me, and because of that, I can love others. So that's where I am. Eric. I'm just gonna sit with this book and we're gonna go and go where God tells us to go and say what God wants us to say and share and love on people, just let them know the joy that can be had. And

you know, this world is tough. We gotta laugh, we gotta find some joy, and yes, we gotta be intentional and passionate about parenting and about our relationships, but we also have to have grace and mercy for ourselves to um and how to find that balance. Good luck with whoever is trying it right. I'm still trying to do it, but just give it the best effort. Next play and let's just do it, do what he wants us to do. Well. That is a beautiful place to wrap up. So and you,

thank you so much. I wish you the best of luck in this current chapter and whatever the next chapter is. And thank you so much for taking the time to come on today. Thank you so much for having me. I have to be quite honest with you, This interview in this podcast has been the first one that actually I felt like was totally about the book. And I want to thank you so much because you've given me an opportunity to practice for the rest of them, but

also like you bought some legitimacy to the book. Like you this interview, I so enjoyed it, Eric, So thank you so much. I thank God for this opportunity, and just pray God will continue to bless you and your work and what you're doing, and if there's anything that I can ever do for you, don't hesitate to ask. I'm here all right, Thank you so much. Al Right, sweete, have a blessed day you too. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly

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