Eric and Chris

We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good will. Thanks for joining us. This is Chris from the One You Feed podcast, and today on the One You Feed we are changing things up a little bit.

It is our one episode and to celebrate we have decided to do the old switcher rou and let Eric and I be interviewed as guests instead of us interviewing a guest. So for this purpose there is no better interviewer than Greg Berg, host of the Life on Purpose podcast. If you've never heard of the Life on Purpose podcast, it asked questions such as, how do you live your life more deliberately? Or what can you do to bring more meaning and purpose into your life? And Gregg interviews

inspirational guests that help us answer these questions. And now the one hundredth episode of the One You Feed podcast hosted by Greg Burr interviewing Eric and myself. Hi, everybody,

this is Greg Berg. I'm the host and producer of the Life on Purpose podcast, and I am very excited to be asked to come and moderate the one episode of the One You Feed and super excited to sort of put Eric and Chris on the other side of the fence, put them on the other side of the mic, and I'm going to be asking them some questions about the show and how things got started and some other aspects of what's happened along their journey through one hundred episodes.

So very excited to do that for everybody the listening audience. So, Eric and Chris, how are you all doing today? Great? Thanks so much for doing this. Cool. So let's take listeners back in the way Back machine to the very beginning. I know a lot of people have asked, you know, you two host the show together, and it's obvious that you've known each other for a long time. So how did you all first meet? Well, actually, I believe we first met maybe in Washington, d C. On a middle

school trip. Uh, you know, just when the middle school takes you to Washington, d C. Although we really I think we maybe just met and didn't really know each other, but we did have mutual friends later and ended up meeting at the very end of high school, and then right after graduation started hanging out constantly. Is that pretty accurate? Yeah? I think it was weird. We knew the same people for a long time, and but there whatever encounters we

must have had just didn't click. And then all of a sudden we did hang out and it clicked, and we were together pretty much every day and night for a while until you went off to school. We've been very good, good, best of friends ever since. And that's a long time ago, upwards of twenty years. We don't need to get more specific than that. Where did you both grow up? I assume that means you both went to the same middle school or junior high in the

same high school. Yeah, we grew up in a place called Worthington, Ohio, which is a suburb of Columbus, Ohio, which is where we are today and where we record the show. Well, So generally a place where a person UH is living in their formative years, a place like Worthington, Ohio, it sort of informs your worldview and your life view, and as you produce the show and as you moved your life has some sort of it colors what you

do in your viewpoints on things. And so I'd love to know, UH, sort of asking a Greg question here, Um, how your upbringing and going to middle school in high school there? How that informed you. I think that my response to growing up in a mostly upper middle class suburb was to rebel against that idea um, and to sort of try and take the opposite direction of you know, there's nothing important about money and you know there's no you know, just the sort of typical punk rock response

to growing up. I think, in the long term, the way that I think the central Ohio and being from Ohio's most influenced me is a general I think there's just something about Midwest Ohio AND's there's just I think there's just a certain friendliness and sort of relatively laid back nature to the way certain things are. Not in the same way that Californians are, but I would say that's probably what I think informs the way I am

more than anything else. As far as a geographic imprint, Yeah, I think it's pretty similar for both of us to we probably embody that more now in our later years, but yeah, early on, neither one of us was I could say we might have both been problem children. The A C. D C song, Yeah, it was a favorite

of both of our. So yeah, well, I think, you know, based on what I know about your musical taste and some of the musical guests that you've had on your show, people you've interviewed obviously that d I y Ethos and the sort of you know, we're going to rebel against

the system and the man. You know, it was obviously a big thing for you, And you know, I grew up in the Midwest as well, you know, and when I think of Ohio, for instance, I think of people like Christie Hine, who got out of Ohio, New England famously, you know, started hanging out in the punks seen in the mid seventies, and you know, people like Devo and people many, many, many of the acts pair Ubu, people from that era who did want to get out, who

didn want to rebel, who did want to really create a unique sound and and sort of make the mark within the context that they grew up in that you had in there in Ohio. And so you knew each other. You started hanging out post high school. Um at the time, were you're making music together? Where you're playing music at the time? Yeah, we were, um making music and playing music right. You know, as soon as we met, Chris was already a guitar player. He was a very good

guitar player in a very short amount of time. My learning curve took a lot longer. Um, But yeah, I mean one of the things we used to love to do a lot was just we we used to play and sing all the time, you know, go into find a hallway with a nice echo and just sit and you know, play and then just sing songs that we liked.

And then it wasn't too long after that that I started writing some songs and Chris and I worked to record them, and uh, but he's you know been I would say probably musically far more active over the last twenty years than I have. Yeah, And so what I found I'm a musician as well, and I have musician musician friends that I've known and and and played music with from that era in my life, from high school, and I found that there's this very unique bond or

connection that is obvious. Then now fast forwarding all these years to when you're hosting a podcast and you're producing together, and there's just something about that connection that maintains itself over time. It's it's almost the psychic sort of thing that when you when you've played music together over a period of time, it bonds you in a certain way. And I'd love to know how that informs the show

now as you produce the show. That is funny because I think that Eric actually approached me about doing the show originally because it really, you know, it is his baby in that way. But I think one of the big reasons we both do it was just to hang out with each other. So it's funny. It's kind of the same thing. I mean, we could we could either be doing this or sitting in a hallway in singing a hot house Flower Song Together awesome. I saw Hot

House Flowers live in the early nine and they're great. Yeah, yeah, I think that's I think that's definitely true. I mean, I had two goals and starting the podcast. Go one was I thought, if I did this, it would be good for me in helping me feed my own good wolf, right, it would help me to just keep my mind in

a positive direction, which my mind certainly needs. And then my second reason was I would get to spend a lot more time with Chris because despite being best friends, life tends to fill up with things and we didn't see as much of each other as I would like. And so this is, you know, this is forced us together, you know, pretty much twice a week for for coming up on two years now, which has been lovely. So it's it certainly has accomplished both those early goals that

I had for the show. Yeah, and it's quite frequently the best part of the week, at least I'll say that for me. Oh no, me too, for sure. I love it. You mentioned the two Wolves parable, and obviously it's the name of your show, but I'd love to know how that came into play, Eric, when you were sort of thinking about the idea of starting a podcast. How that came to be the name of the show and the central thesis, that central theme of the show,

I don't really know. I don't remember whether I was trying to think up the idea for a podcast or whether the wolf and the podcast arrived simultaneously. I had gotten interested in online marketing for a variety of reasons, and we don't need to go into it, but I had a solar company that was was starting to struggle after a few good years. I was looking to do something different, and then I just remember it hit me

one day. I was like, we could use that parable and it would be a great way to interview people, you know, and we'd be able to interview lots of different types of people, but would be a way to bring it all together and cohere and uh so it just kind of came to me and I asked Chris and we started pretty much. You know, the next day, Chris, when Eric approached you and said, here's what I'm thinking,

would you say, what were what were your thoughts? Well, the thought of doing a podcast, I thought was great. My initial thought, I think was can we create a show out of just that simple of a concept, But it became apparent really quickly that if you tell anyone that parable, they will just start talking. And sometimes we'll

do that, and it depends on the guests. Sometimes they'll you know, focus on that and refer back to it throughout the show based on whatever they do or their life, and then other other times it will just sort of get them. We'll talk about it right early on, and then it will just just for some reason opens this channel of communication and people just will talk and talk and it's great because that was the point of it. Of course. Yeah. So one episodes later, are you're happy

you made that decision? Does it feel like still the right sort of overarching umbrella under which to have these conversations? I think so, I mean, truth be told. There's times I get tired of reading that parable um because I do it on this Yeah, but I think that it gives me a framework in which to approach interviews and things in which is you know, for example, of musicians, there's lots of musicians I love, only some of which I think would be good to have on the show.

And I'm really looking at it through the lens of is there something about the way to live a better life that I can extract from this. And so the subtitle for the show is Conversations about Creating a Life worth Living, And so that's a slightly broader topic. UM, but it gives us a It gives us a lot of leeway, I think, to kind of go in a lot of different directions. But it also provides a center that I think holds things together relatively. Well. Yeah, I'm

gonna get really philosophical in both of you. Then, And since you mentioned the subtitle of the show, how would you define in your own vernacular a life worth living? I'll start with Eric. I think that it is a life that I feel engaged in. Um. I think I would keep it that simple at this point. For me, is when I feel engaged in life. UM, that feels like it's worth living to me. And there are times

where I have not felt engaged in life. I have been, you know, whether I'm wrestling with depression and I don't feel like I'm engaged with anything, or I'm self medicating or self destructing with drugs. But I think it's when my life feels like it's worth living. I mean, I think a life is On one hand, it's a funny question because I think life is always worth living no matter how bad things get. I think it's worth hanging

on to see because things change. So on one hand, it's like, well, some lives are worth living and others aren't. I don't believe that, But I think that what makes you know when we say a life worth living? I think what we're saying is a life that feels um meaningful and um purposeful to us. And I think for me, that's about being engaged in the things that are around me, and those things change often in my life, so I wouldn't say, oh, it's about this particular thing for me,

it's really a matter of engagement. Seems to qualify my level of contentment and happiness. Yeah, what about you, Chris, I really think you know, via various experiences that I've had, that we are all looking for the same thing, which is happiness. You know, no matter what the angle we take, or no matter what the path we take two achieve happiness, we all want it, but there's no easy way to get it, and there is most certainly no easy way to maintain it. So it's it's that whole line, you know,

from the intro of the podcast. I think the you know, constant effort in that's what the podcast is, that's what

started at. A constant effort for Eric and I is going to be at least once a week, right because the show is released that way, and hopefully constant effort on the receiving end of the listener is going to be enjoying that and you know, making them conscious of positive things, because if Eric and I skipped two months of this, there's every chance in the world I wouldn't be thinking about anything relating to positive I mean, it just happens that way because we all kind of just stray,

you know, there's so much minutia knocking that out of our way in life. So it's great to have it on a weekly basis, whether or not it's us doing it, you know, and that and that applies not only to this podcast, but just however you approach your life on a day to day basis, you have to provide things for yourself to head in the right direction and had that good wealth. Yeah, absolutely, And I found that Eric

and I talked about this recently on my show. That's oftentimes you teach what you most need to learn or you most need to remember, and and sometimes it's just a matter of you forget it and you need to be reminded again and again and again. And so those of us who host shows that are under this sort of philosophical umbrella. Uh, for me personally, I find that that's the case that I need these reminders. I need

to have these conversations. They really helped me out tremendously, and UH, it's my hope that the listeners are helped as well. Eric, you mentioned dealing with depression, and you're very open about your depression and your struggles with depression on the show. And I'm wondering how difficult is that for you to be that vulnerable and that open to be able to talk about it in a space that's public wherever any anyone can hear this and anyone can sort of chime in, you know, via the internet. Is

that difficult for you? I don't think about it very often. But what what I do when I have experiences, which is when I meet people in my day to day life, so like I do some I do some consulting work.

And when I come when I when I'm working with people who are like, oh, I'm sitting into your podcast, I just listen to your podcast or um, when I encounter real humans who are in my life, I have a moment, Uh, you know, I have a little twinge of like like there's a you know, I'm throwing a lot out there, um, but I you know, it's a twinge.

I think at this point, I thankfully have gotten to a place where I'm kind of like, here's who I am, Here's what I am, here's what I'm like, And the benefits of being myself and and talking about the things that I go through far outweigh the negatives to it. So, I mean, there's always a little uncomfortablelity, but like I said, the benefits way outweigh that. Boy, that's not a great sence. Way outweigh, way outweigh that weighs a good far far outweigh. Yes. Indeed, So, Chris,

what about you? Is that difficult to be able to have these conversations where you're referencing parts in your own life, difficult passages in your own life, in your own past. You know, with my position on the podcast, I really never have to do it, but I've I think it would be a little more difficult for me, Like I might just be more guarded because I never have to do it on the podcast, But I also admire Eric a lot for doing it. You know, I think it

would benefit me greatly if I did it. Since I don't really host the show, We're going to add a new segment called the Confessions of Chris. For each episode, five minutes of Chris's Deepest, Darkest Secrets is gonna It's gonna shoot us up the charts. Well, you know, staying on the on the sort of serious front, if you will. Are you've referenced drug use and recovery on the show before,

and how has that informed what you do now? You've both you know that at one point in your lives that was part of your lives and so now in the in the current place where you're in a very different place life wise, health wise, world wise, world you wise, what has that done for you to make that journey?

Talk about that massive? For one thing, Eric and I will both agree on this, we would never be doing this or possibly anything else but going to work, and maybe not even that had we not stopped doing drugs. I mean, there's just no way. Like I know, for myself, I was just in so deep nothing was happening, even if I told myself, it would or pretended it was.

There was just nothing going on that was essential to just eliminate that from my life personally to stay alive, to stay alive, and to even be able to enjoy us a single day. I mean the podcast is certainly gravy on the top of that, but you know, things that approved for me greatly long long before we started it. But it's very relevant. Yeah, what about you. I first heard the wolf parable in Recovery, and today it tends to be more about am I moving in the right direction?

Am I? Am I being aware? Am I being attentive? Am I? You know, it's about being a better person. But there, you know, when I first was exposed to that parable, it was really about, you know, feed the good wolf or you know, feed the bad wolf, which is going to very shortly lead to death. Um, so it was very you know, it was really serious and

really bad for a while. But I think that idea of I'm going to make choices and decisions in my life and I really need to be thinking about and focused on making the best ones I can, and that I think the other thing is that we need help in that. I think that's the other way that recovery has really informed everything I do. Was that I didn't get clean and sober by myself, and I don't think i'd stay that way by myself. And so that's one of the ways in which the podcast is yet another

example of that, which is getting help. You know, hearing from others and talk about these things and connecting with other people who struggle is part of what makes that recovery possible. So as I look on my overall philosophy on life, so much of it for me has been pulled very much from that recovery process. Yeah, you mentioned

hearing from other people who struggle. What's that like for you when you hear from a listener who's said is I'm having difficulties challenges in my own life and your podcast is something that uplifts me because I I hear my own journey when I hear you all talk or I hear I guessed, you know, giving me tools that I can use in my own life on my own journey. What's that like for you when you hear that? Boy? I know, for me, I will never turn down any

reminder of how horrible and painful it was. I mean not only drug abuse, but just even feeling down or having a bad day, you know, even on the simplest level. Yeah, that's what you know, keeps everybody going because, like Eric said, you can't do it alone. And you know, what's it like for you, Eric, I think it is, Well, it's wonderful. I mean, the the emails that we have gotten, in the contact we've gotten from people, some of them have been extraordinarily profound, um such to the point that it

frequently I'm kind of like, WHOA like it? You know, people have used the word changed my life and things like that, and that's uh, I mean, I feel I mean, that's just a wonderful, wonderful feeling. And my experience has been that when I'm able to help other people with what I've gone through, that makes that makes it all worth it. It takes the regret out of the equation. For me, when you transform something that was ugly and bad and terrible into something that is useful and helpful,

that's what you know. For me, that's such a big deal. So I love getting those letters and they're probably you know, they're probably one of the most important outward things as far as success of the show goes, that I care about. I mean, obviously we care about a number of listeners, and it's fun to be on iTunes and it's fun to get in the charts and all that stuff is lovely. My my primary focus is still about me, and this is the show helping me be better. It's still about

spending time with Chris. But that's another one that has become one of those things that I really really love and it's great to get to interact with with listeners. And my experience of meeting people who listen to the show, and I've done a fair amount of that, not a ton, but some is that I just they're all people that I love. I mean, it's just a very much like it seems to attract a certain type of person, and

it's certainly the type of person I like to be around. Yeah, so who do you think that who do you think that audience is out there? Well, who's the who's listening out there? You know, because you've obviously had some tremendous success via iTunes and via some of the accolades that you mentioned, you know, Huffington's Post, you know called you the the best health podcast of all time. That's tremendous. Those are those are heavy words. Those are heavy words,

you know. I you know, I get asked that question all the time. And the online marketing space is very much about who's your avatar, who's your listener? You know, you need to niche things down, who specifically are you talking to? Are you talking to a forty three year old woman who lives in the Midwest, or are you talking to you know? And I the all I have to go off of right is who reaches out to us,

Who who engages with this via email? Who signs up for the coaching, who comes to events that we, you know, we've had in person? And all I can say from that is it's a wildly diverse group of people. I cannot pin it down to it's mostly young, you know, like Tim Ferris to tell you, it's mostly tech savvy

men between the ages of forty who live in major cities. Right, But there's no I can't find a cohering thread except that there I think they're thoughtful people who want to live a better life, and that I don't think that respects any real demographic boundaries. Yeah. So one of the things that all of us creative struggle with at times is impostory syndrome. You know, who are you to host a podcast about feeding a you know, the good wolf and the bad wolf? Who are you to host a

podcast about living a life on purpose? You know? Or the dispense advice beyond online column or a blog or all this? And we struggle with this. And so for me, I find that when I do get to interact with listeners or people that are writing in or somehow chiming in about the show, and to me, it helps me overcome that. Um. And do you find that to be the case as well? Yeah? I do. And I also think that I try and stay away from impostor syndrome

by I don't pretend I have all the answers. I don't if I did, Honestly, if I knew how to do all this stuff, I probably wouldn't be doing this show, right. I mean, if I really had it all figured out in life never gave me any difficulty, or I was perfectly well adjusted, I doubt I'd be doing this. So that helps me stay away from imposter syndrome because I have to live in my own head day to day, and so I'm kind of like God, that is chilling, that that that's uh, it's scary in there. It can be.

It can be. So that could be a whole another show, living Living Inside. Eric said, yea, it would have. It would John Carpenter movie. It would have twelve moderators, um me, twelve people speaking at all at all times. No. I I think that's incredibly true, because as you put the show out, you always sort of you give this vibe of come along with us on our journey. You've never said, like, hey,

I'm a guru, listen to me. I have the answers no, and whatever answers I have, I've gotten kind of the hard way by you know, I learned at this point, I've been alive long enough, I guess and all that that I actually have started to figure out what actually works for me in my life. Like there was a long time I had no idea, But I think I've got a pretty good idea now of how I tick, and so I'm able to apply things that make that better. But that's you know, any knowledge I have has largely

been one that way. It's not It's not like I've learned it all somewhere else or I don't know. I think Eric is great at this. Now I get I get to pump up your ego a little bit of horse and we call each other horsey by the way. Um, I think Eric is great at this and has gotten even better actually at interviewing people kind of in the way. I think that, like Krista tip, it's a good example

with being knowledgeable but really equitable to the situation. It's not preachy, I don't think ever, Yeah, I would agree. I think preachy turns people off, and I think you've start balance or it can turn into that guru thing, you know, which some people might be open to that or one that or think that they need that, But I don't think it's a great idea. I think Eric really does a great job of not doing that. So talk me through the process of making a show. How

does that work for you all? For the people out there who curious how this whole sort of pulled the pull the curtain open, what's behind the curtain. Basically what happens is we have a studio which is in my house, and Eric ahead of time, you know, we of course

we have guests and interviews set up ahead of time. Uh. Eric kind of does all the fundamentals and or you know, has a great book he read and tries to get that person on board for an interview, and then we pretty much record the interview and a multi track studio here, usually via Skype or phone, and then um, we do edit it, I think a little more heavily than other podcasts, wouldn't you say, erk, So it's a little more like a radio show than just a straight running live show,

although we don't manipulate it in any way, but we take out coughing, and yeah, we clean it up and and streamline it a bit, you know, we put music breaks in. I think we've always thought of it as treated as like a radio show um versus just a podcast where it's just a long form, free flowing talking about whatever. And a lot of podcasts that I love are exactly that way. So it's not like this is better,

it's just the approach we chose. And so the editing process for us does take a fair amount of time, you know, and then we're we're putting in intros and we write all the music, which is you know, I absolutely love, but it is more time consuming, you know. So, like Chris say, we interview, Um, we interview just kind of in spurts. It's not like it's one interview a week. Sometimes it's three or four in a week and then none or sometimes it's one a week. But then we

get together one day each week. Usually every once in a while Chris will do the editing by himself, but it's largely a joint effort. We sit down and work

through the editing process. So it's usually about a two day a week, you know him and I in person, and then, as he said, you know my The other part of it for me is and the part that I you know, one of the parts that I love, although occasionally becomes overwhelming, is thinking of who the guests should be, reaching out, contacting the guests, and then getting prepared. And I'm still a little bit of a zealot for being really prepared by having read their stuff. I've gotten better.

When we were early on, we had Andrew Solomon on and I was really excited to have him on. But he had two books that I was particularly interested uh, The Noonday Demon, which is about depression, and his newest book, Far from the Tree, which was about, you know, children with differences. And I was so zealous about preparing in those days. I think it was about fift pages of reading and I was determined to do all of it. Um that is not that has not been that has

not been sustainable. But I still, you know, make a really you know, concerted effort to get through at least one piece of what an author has written and and have a pretty good idea because I think it's by doing that that I'm able to find what I care about and what I think fits the show versus what's in their press release. Yeah, and I think that that

really shows. I think that you know, guts are so appreciative when an interviewer takes the time to do that homework and has, you know, an understanding of their work via the ten questions that their press agent sent out or the same ten questions that every other person who has done an interview asked them. I mean, I think that as an interviewee, as a person on the other side of the mic, they're very happy to hear that

they Yeah, they they are. And you know, my my filter for who comes on the show is whose work is interesting enough that I feel like investing my fair amount of my time in reading it and doing it. It's who am I interested in? Um So that keeps it that at least makes the work. Although Like I said, sometimes it's overwhelming the amount that needs to be done. I think I did three interviews this week and three interviews the week before, and so that's just pretty much

every spare minute is preparing. But it's work that I love doing, So it's I wouldn't call it work in the same way. I like doing it, but it is time consuming sometimes. With that in mind, how come we've never interview Justin Bieber. If you claim to be as great as fan, he's still a little too big to get on the show. I should have just let you.

We've got it up serious. We've got an upcoming interview with a group of believers though that have written a story about what it's like to love Justin, so we'll air that soon. That is going to be fascinating. So you sort of, you know, jabbing at each other, Eric, you pick on Chris on the air all the time? Is that a real thing between you guys? Not really? Actually, I think our dynamic of when we're together and hanging

out is not like that at all. I mean, maybe occasionally, but it's not going to go around a hell of a lot. Though. Oh we joke around so mutinously. There's been we've We've actually talked before about we wish early on. I mean, of course, now a hundred episodes later, there's no way to go back to every unedited interview we've ever done. I mean, there's just so much stuff, but all the funny things that have happened when we were rolling but didn't end up using them either comments we're

making to each other or you know whatever. I mean, God, I would have cherished to have those all in a just a little compilation, but they probably would not be uh appropriate for public. We would and it would just be it would be one long beep with with just a few articles in between your yeah yeah, no joking and laughing and is a huge part of it. Um, So that is absolutely a huge part of our dynamic.

But the actual sort of like picking on each other or making fun of each other is not really at all. I don't even know how. I think honestly that my desire to bring more of Chris into the show is how that ends up happening. It's just like the easiest way for me to sort of be like he's here, um, and then he forgot that I don't have a microphone, and I can never defend myself on a typical episode.

That's absolutely Greg, today's your chance. What do you want to say, Chris, I don't have anything anything to get out. Just love for Eric, Just love. Let's talk about some of the music. Tell me about my body betrays when you told me that your body betrayed. My sympathy stretched over the hill. When you lost our list of things not to forget to do because to send it with a medical bill. Now we're all bad backs and knees and knuckles in agreeence not to Then maybe I'm sorry

that your body betrayed you once again. But if I'm unwell and my hunts back begins to swell, You'll still sing to me before we go to sleep. You can ring my bell and when we're old, I say, baby, you still shine like go and did that boom move you sto from Ester do the Beautiful You Beautiful? That is a song that I wrote, And it's funny I was in this band for while. I was in two bands for a really long time, one called Orchestraville and the other called the Black Swans, And then I stopped

doing that. I kind of started writing songs again after Orchestraville, which I wrote a out of the stuff where although not all of it, but um, I started writing all these songs and they were kind of just folk songs in a way, which was not really where I came from. But for some reason, almost all of these songs I wrote during that period were sort of love songs, either that or love songs that are kind of channeled through dogs, which is going to make me sound like a insane person.

But that that particular song though something I can't remember what triggered that, but something just made me really admire the thought of two people growing old together and their you know, their bodies are falling apart and it just gets really difficult, you know, as you get older, but the but the love still remained. And I just really liked the concept of that. So that's what that song is about. It's one of my favorites you've ever written.

It nearly makes me cry every time. It's just so beautiful. It just blows me away. Thank you. And now back to the rest of the interview with me and Eric, tell me about grass is Greener. That's a song that I wrote, Chris and I recorded, and he's actually the one singing on it, and I think it is my attempt to combine Zen, Buddhism and the Everly Brothers together into one song. Yeah, I mean it's it's very I mean you'll hear it, and it's very Everly Brothers inspired.

And yet the basic point of the song is that, you know, it talks about my my you know, my tendency to think the grass is greener, my tendency to always think that happiness is out there. And so the song really talks about how, you know, I'll never be happy until I kind of learned to be in the moment. So it's I love it. It's you know, Chris singing on it, Chris and I and are Frank Keith playing drums. Grass is always green, God always a dreamer, a dreamer,

I could never be happy. I could never be free until I left the moment be I could never be happy. I could never be free until I see what's right in front of me. The grass is always greener, the God is alwaysily. So they're gonna be a traveling show now, is they're gonna be the one you feed review that uh, you know, tours around and play shows out. We could do it. I do play keyboards. If you need support there you you know for your road show. Indeed, you

do very well. I had the pleasure, Yeah, Eric, Eric, that's how actually how Eric and I met. We met in the garage. Literally, we were camp Good Life Project and there was a garage band. They had a whole

garage studio filled with instruments and it was great. And our buddy, buddy and mutual friend, Christopher Carter, had organized these garage band sessions and a bunch of us showed up and you know, Eric plugs in his guitar and I'm over at the keys and uh, you know, we got a drummer, bass player and a few singers and percussionists and stuff, and yeah, it was It was a great way to to meet somebody and to learn about the other people you're with, because you know, at the time,

I had no idea that he was a podcast house. I had no idea what he did. And you know, we're just communicating as YouTube talked about, you know, at a level that doesn't need words, at a different level. And I love being able to connect with people that way. That sounds so fun to a great way to meet crazy fun. Yeah, absolutely, So what are your playing It's for the future of the show. Do you think ahead

in those terms. Do you think, Okay, we're at one hundred episodes, man, I'd love to, you know, get to two fifty or five hundred or five years from now. Do you have long term plans or do you simply just take it sort of a month by month. I mean a little of both, but there are no clear long term plans. The long term plans are to keep making a good show. I mean, that's that's the heart of it for me, is to keep making a show that is good and that I that I like and

I feel good about. Um. I started doing some coaching work this year. I've really enjoyed doing that. I'm working on a way to take that work broader than that, not too you know, there's a lot of people who've listened to the show have contacted me who you know, would love to have done the one on one work,

and you know, aren't able to afford it. And I think, I you know, I try and be very reasonable compared to other coaches, but you know, there is a certain amount of you know, I can't do everything on a volunteer basis. So what I'm working on is how can I take some of the concepts that have worked so well in coaching those clients and make them broader. Whether that's an online training or I don't really know, but I think that's at least what I've been working on.

But as far as the show itself, I think it's just keep keep doing it. Talking about past guest, do you have a number one guest that you would love to get on the show someday? Sort of a dream guest that, okay, you know, someday I'd really love to have a conversation with this person or these three people, either of you. Leonard Cohen, Leonard Cohen, I think we both agree he would be the number one choice. Leonard Cohen. Yep,

I love, love, love Leonard Cohen. I was incredibly fortunate to get to see him perform about three or four years ago at Coachella out here in southern California, and he put on a master class and how to age gracefully as a musician and how to incorporate everything I love about music, performance, poetry, all of the above into just one master class. I agree, But yeah, him around that time, to Greg, it was crazy. Yeah, I mean

I just can't even believe it. Yeah, And that the funny the funny part was I saw, you know, Coachelly, you're sort of you know, moving from set to set and seeing all these amazing acts in a very condensed environment. And I saw Leonard one of the three or four best shows I've ever seen in my life. And then I moved over to see another person that had been big at one point in my life that I love dearly. I love his music. But Morrissey was performing on the

main stage and all he did was complained. He he whined and complained. And I had been a huge Smiths fan and Morrissey solo fan over the years, and it was such a turn off. After Leonards just incredibly beaming, positive, graceful performance, it was like the contrast was stark. Yeah, it really is. I've seen two Morrissey shows that were kind of like that as well, although they were outweighed by some of the others that I've seen. But I digress. But Okay, so that was I'm Leonard Cohen. I'll put

in sort of the musical category. Um, any sort of uh, teachers, people in the philosophical realm, thought leaders, anybody out there that you'd really love to have on the show. I mean, I'd love to have Pema Choldren on the show. Um, I'd love to have um Jack Cornfield, I'd love to have the Pope. I would It's a ridiculous, but I would love to have the Pope on. Yeah, but you know those are the first two of those are probably attainable, not easily. Particularly Pema Choldren, she would be she would

be very difficult. Um, but the Pope is probably the would probably take some form of divine intervention to get the Pope on the one you feed or the Pope getting just you know, crazy drunk, and I don't know we should leave it there. I'm going to throw in one of my favorite people on the planet that only loosely falls into the description you were just giving Greg

and say, Russell Brand. I tried to get Russell Brand on the show and uh, I actually as publicist was nice enough to write back, and I've actually wrote funk Off very kind of her. She yeah, yeah, she's just dream on loser um entertaining interview. I've made a couple of attempts at Leonard Cohen. One was through his publicist, and his publicist was just like Leonard, extraordinarily great, uh, you know, graceful, and kind in his response, like, you know,

I rarely get notes that nice back from anybody. Um. And then another I know somebody who has been involved with Leonard Cohen at the monastery where Leonard has studied and all that, and he said, well, you know, I maybe we could do something, but there's something you should know. I said, Okay, what's that? He said, Leonard's monk name means great silence. So if that gives you any sense of how successful you might be in getting him on the show. And so that's kind of when I went, yeah,

this is really a long shot. Maybe we went away for ten years, right, there was that ten year period where he sort of went away from the public spud lights. Yeah, speaking of people who went away, I think Cat Stevens would be really interesting as well. Another one. I tried out back performing as Cat Stevens again, and ye, yep, I know he would be. I was just listening to

some Cat Steven's on the way over. So when you all look back at one Dred episodes, do either of you have a particular episode that really resonates with you more than the others that you're particularly proud of that episode or anything that maybe is the most memorable episode for you. I think for me, there's so many of them. I could really never single a person out, but there has been a couple, certainly on a just an interesting

informational level for me. Todd Henry, who I mentioned earlier, I just for some reason that guy I think is so fantastic. And then one of my great heroes of all time, Dave Davies, and then another great hero of all time, Mike Scott. I just can't even believe they were on the show. Kudos to Eric for that. I was in a band that covered Fisherman's Blues ones. That's great.

Another connection we have. And you were in a band you told me that covered Blaze of Glory by the Alarm and we had people marching on Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was in a cover band in the mid eighties, so we did a few Alarm songs. That's great. Yeah, I think for me, Mike Scott stand Mike Scott and

Frank Turner stand out for me. Having them on the show was like, what, like, I just you know, when I thought of the show, Frank Turner and Mike Scott were two of the first people I thought I would love to have those guys on, so having them on from a personal standpoint was just really it was was amazing to me Um as far as guests go, that there are so many, and I've learned so many, you know,

or I don't know. The people ask me what I've learned from all the guests, And one of the interesting things is so much of it as we as you said earlier, is not so much about learning as it is remembering and being reminded, and and there's so much of that. I think that we had Glenn and Melton Doyle on the show and it was a fun, wonderful conversation, and of all the things that anybody said on the show,

that sort of just stopped me in my tracks. I think she said something along the lines of when you um you know, as far as connecting to people, she said, you know, when you stay on the surface, it's really hard to connect with people because everybody is different on the surface. But if you go, if you take the risk to go deep with everybody, it's easy to connect with a lot of people because we're all the same deep down. And there was just something about that that

really floored me. Um. So that stands out to me as a particular like I've never thought of it that way before moment. That's great, Chris. What about you? You have a particular piece of wisdom or advice or tool that someone's brought to your attention that's been particularly helpful or has been something that really stuck with you over this time. I would pick one of the things that James clear said, which is a reduced the scope, stick to the schedule. And I constantly think about that. That

has been so profound to me. I mean, I say it a slightly different way, but like a little bit of something is better than a lot of nothing. I mean, there were two days this week that I went into the gym literally with my work clothes on, did not change, sat down, did a fifteen minute workout on the various machines, and walked right back out the door because that's what I had. I had fifteen minutes, and I did it. And it's not ideal and I look ridiculous, I'm sure, um,

but I did it. So that one has been a big one for me to that episode as a whole was so good. I have a new version of that I just made up while you were saying that, which is by the pizza eat at least two pieces. I think that's a T shirt. Yep. All right. My final question I have for you both is, you know we've talked about the parable and feeding the good wolf and feeding the bad wolf, and when you notice that you're

feeding the bad wolf? What do you do? And it starts with self awareness of something else we talked about earlier. So maybe it's just a matter of what are some things that you do? So maybe these are tips you've learned from Gas, or maybe it's something practices that you already had in your own life. Um, how how do you try to be more self aware so that you can notice when you're feeding the bad wolf? Or if you do notice it, then what do you do? How do you shift out of that? How do you switch

out of that? Depending what it is, you know, sometimes just the awareness is enough and I can recognize that I'm doing it and then I just change the behavior. Um. A lot of times it's it's using little tricks like that when reduced the scope, stick to the schedule. So if I notice that I'm feeding the bad wolf by really procrastinating and not getting anything done, I've learned to trick myself into working by you know, all right, I'm

just gonna do two minutes of it. But there are times that when, particularly if it's a thought pattern, you know, if it's the negative thought pattern, which for me is a big part of the way the bad wolf gets fed in my life. The the outward behaviors have sort of they're more or less in place and pretty consistent, but the thought patterns um if I can't shift my way out of it, then I usually will find somebody to talk to about its about you. Well, One thing

I do is I will distract myself. And this might be a high bred maybe if something you told me, Eric, but I've done this multiple times. If if it gets really bad and I see this negative thought pattern going on, sometimes I'll actually try to go through the alphabet and think of something positive that I love for each letter of it. But I think the reason I do that, and I don't have to do it quite as often anymore, is because I've gotten so much better at knowing that

everything is temporary, good or bad. So if I feel really crappy or something is just not going well at all, I just, for some reason I wish I had known that earlier in life. It's going to pass, you know, and all the all the fun things that are happening, we're going to pass as well. We don't give a ship when the fun things are, you know, because we were fine with that right, this too shall pass, exactly indeed. Well, Eric and Kress, it's been great having this conversation about

your show and your history together. And I look forward to hearing the next hundred episodes. And I'm very honored that you had me in here. Is so of the guest m C to have this conversation with you. You did a great job, Greg, Thanks so much. Yeah, fantastic job, Greg. It was great to talk. Thanks guys, Bite bye bye Stone