Eiman Al Zaabi on Finding Grace

self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they their good Wolf. Thanks for

joining us. Our guest on this episode is Iman al Zabi, a Muslim spiritual teacher who integrates the principles of harmony, beauty, and unity into her teachings. Iman is a facilitator and transformational coach who helps individuals transform their relationships and careers, heal from past trauma, and Live Authentically Today, Iman and Eric discuss her book Finding Grace, Daily Comfort for Uncertain Times. Hi Emon, Welcome to the show. Hi Eric, thank you

for having me. It's a pleasure to have you on. We're going to be discussing your most recent book, Finding Grace, Daily Comfort for Uncertain Times. But before we get into that, I'd like to start, like we always do, with the parable. There's a grandmother who's talking came with her grandson. She says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that

are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandmother. He says, well, grandmother, which one wins? And the grandmother says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work

that you do. That's a very interesting parable because it kind of encompasses what the human condition is all about. Right, We're always in a battle between the dark side and the good side of us and the way it has manifested in my life, of course, and in my journey

towards spiritual connection. It has come in the in the form of you know, me suffering from anxiety and depression, and that felt like there was a part of me that had a sense of self abuse, didn't want to live a good life, didn't want to be expressing myself. I kind of portrayed myself. Self betrayal is a form of self abuse. Hating yourself is a form of self abuse.

Disconnecting yourself is a form of self abuse. But on the other side, the good side of me, which I started the journey because of this, is to go on the other side where I feed my passion, where I feed my gifts, where I feed the side of me that wants to freely express itself and respect itself and have a sense of self regard. And so the journey has been all about you know, the see. So let's say between you know, the self abuse part of me, yourself, and and the part that has its dreams and gifts

and wants to express all of that in life. So, yeah, that's what it means to me. Wonderful yea. At one point in the book you say the purpose of life is to fully experience darkness and light and to be privileged to choose one over the other. And I certainly when I read that made me think of this parable.

So I wanted to start the conversation off with something that you talk about in one of your earlier books, and you talk about dealing with some chronic conditions and that you found your way sort of into energy healing and that that made a huge change in your life kind of very very quickly, and that it was this thing you were very interested in. And yet it appeared over time that your family was uncomfortable with that type of work because they felt like it was out of

accord with your traditional religion of Islam. So could you say a little bit more, just, you know, sort of tell me a little bit more about that story and how you kind of reconciled all that sure, and the

way I've suffered from anxiety and depression. I felt like a living health for seven years of my life, and I would be put on medication and then the time I say, like to the doctor, I would like to be pregnant, now, he with me off, and then I'd have withdrawal symptoms, and then he put me back on again after I give birth. Right, so that lasted for about seven years of my life, and I knew that the doctors had nothing else to offer me but the pill.

And you know, I would go there, they'd listen to me, and then he would increase my doors and he would add his stuff, and I'm like, this is not helping, this is not how I want to live my life. So from there on I went on a journey of you know, I've got to find the answer for myself, to see where I could go with us. And then it was just by chance, you know that I attended an energy healing workshop. Before that, I also taught myself CBT,

cognitive behavioral therapy. I taught myself about panic attacks, about anxiety, read a lot about in this field, attended energy healing workshops, and from there on I started to feel like, all right, there's a sense of control. I'm getting a sense of control. I'm getting a sense of what I can do to help myself beyond the pill. And that took a while

for me to to understand. You know that I am actually empowered, that I am somebody who can actually control her thoughts and work with the shadows side, right, the side that was kind of controlling my life with daily panic attacks. And if you had a panic attack, you know what that means and what that feels. It was like dying in the moment, it literally does, right, So I had to work through all of that, and you know, at some point with the energy healing workshops, I was

starting to get results. I started to feel better. And I remember in one of the classes, I picked up the case that had my prozac and the pills and I threw them in the garbage and I said to everybody in the class, this is going to be the last time I take my antidepressant. And a friend there on, I knew I was not going to come back to this and that was the start of my journey of exploration into the world of self help energy healing, understanding what that feels. But as I get deeper and deeper,

of course, I started to have intuitive insights. I started to have a better sense of into the energy realm. I got more advanced into things. And my sister, who is very very religious, had a dream about me, and in the dream she saw me is not looking so good. She said, you look dark face, like there's something wrong with you. And she interpreted the message that I'm doing something outside of my faith and that I should come

back to God. And that triggered me big time. I was like, I thought I was on the path of God. How come this is coming my way? What does that mean? Right? So I went on a journey to see how I can bridge what I knew to be true, which I call universal truths and truths that are principles in which the universe operates, and things that I felt could violate those universal truths. Right, And I understand my religion, Islam, as in full alignment with those universal truths. I've done

my research. I questioned the religion many many times. I've read the script and questioned it in order to distill those truths. Right, I'm in a place in my journey where, you know, the two have aligned right now, and I've actually come full circle back to my religion with a new understanding of what it means to be spiritual, with a new understanding of what it means to help the self, to support the self, what is well being look like,

and all these elements. While you don't violate what I call you know, universal principles and truths of you know, how God has created the universe and who we are and why would come here. So I guess my question is did you find any practices or anything that you were doing that you felt like were in conflict with

universal truth? For me personally, I mean, nobody would be the judge of this, right unless you know you need to judge this for yourself based on your own discovery of your own universal truth right where you find to

be true for yourself. And so from that space, if you come into the self help industry, everything is packaged, right, and you don't know what you're getting because there's a person who believes a certain way and brings about practices from ancient civilizations and ancient places, and you think this could be helpful for your well being. But at the end of day, this could be something that exposes you two different philosophies that might be in violation of your

own belief system. That to me was like, you know, I didn't know. As a consumer right, in the consuming part, I was obsessed of learning all as much as I could to be able to fix myself and feel better. And in the consuming part, I started to accumulate beliefs that have not served me at all. You start to feel like you've got at all. You start to feel like you're and this is great. I can sense I've got my sixth cents happening this. I've advanced my consciousness.

Now I can see through your energy. I can actually diagnose you from far, because if you've had a session with me, I would be tapping into your energy and saying, you know, you've got this problem going on. So I'd be more like, what is the right word for this, A fortune teller, if you will. And these things do not come just like that. They come through dedicated practice, but also dabbling into new age practice, dabbling into the dark side of it as well, the black magic, the

white magic, the cult, all of these realms. They're inseparable right now from the self help industry. And the question is how do you stay in integrity with what you firmly believe in while engaging in those practices. Right So, to me, this is what what my sister has awakened in me to be discerning, to be able to ask those questions and order to ensure I stayed in integrity.

I think this takes me to a place I was going to go later in the conversation, but I think this is a good place to jump to it because there were several words that showed up to me a lot in your writing that I thought would be useful, and one of them was values. And I think you're speaking to this a little bit with what you're saying that it's important to be able to know kind of what your values are and make sure that practices that you're engaging with are not in violation of any of those.

Would that be a good place to transition? Does that make sense or my putting words in your mouth? Yeah, this is exactly how I say it. We are born with what is called, you know, blueprint of values. Right, your values would be different than mine. And by the way, values are not chosen, they are revealed. So you reveal your own values through your own understanding of life, what you tolerate, what you don't tolerate, what you are drawn towards,

what you're staying away from. Right, this is where values are actually showing themselves to you. And values are pretty much a signature of the soul, right, A human soul would have its own distinct values of saying, you know what I value truth and to me, that's what I'm going to seek in my life. Right and values don't have to do with morality. They are pretty much attributes and qualities and ways of being that we all strive to achieve in our life. And you'll see that dream

you've been seeking. You want to be a singer, What your soul was asking for is actually a state of being in which you know you're you're expressing yourself in a musical way. Let's say, right, and it seeks a state of freedom, for example, or it seeks a state of compassion through doing good work. So those are elements in which you know our signature shows up. And this is where if your passion meets talent, this is where

your purpose is born. Right, you have those values and your your passion meets that meet service, that's when your purpose is born. So values are pretty much what defines the how of what we live our lives. Yeah, you say that the key to live in a fully realized life is to pay attention to values. These are ways to be, not things to do. They're like directions on the compass. We always know which way to travel. Let's

go a little bit more into that. But first I just want to touch on something you said a moment ago. But the values are not the same as morality because we often, particularly here in the US, those two words mean a very similar thing. We talk about Christian values. You know, people will say Christian values or family values. So in what way is value different than morality? You sort of said it, but I'd like to just tweez

it apart a little further. Sure, if you look at values that I think there are estates of being, you'll see that they actually represent moral values if you're being a moral person, and they also represent sides of you that you would like to express. Right. So values are pretty much what you're drawn towards in your life. That to me, how I distinct values. Morality is pretty much a philosophical thing based on an understanding of life and

an understanding of what is right and what is wrong. Right. Values, on the other side, are things that pull you towards a certain direction, and it could pull you towards moral values. Right, So when we all have them, the good side of us is always drawn towards what is good, what is moral, what is just? Let's say, what is truth? Based all of these elements are pretty much values. That we're drawn towards.

But on the other side, when when you look at your ordinary, everyday life, there are values such as adventure, their values such as freedom. There's values such as giving. There are values such as let's say, love and passion. Um. Those are also elements that make us up as a human being as a whole. Right. It doesn't have to all be all about morality. It's a combination, and each one of us have a signature of those values that we go by in our lives. Yeah, that makes sense.

I think I've done some exercises in my past where somebody might ask you to look at picking a couple of values, and there might be like thirty or forty things on that list, you know, like you said, adventure, love, truth, service. You know, there's a whole bunch of different things and sort of finding the ones that we might all agree. Well, in general, those things are all good, but there's a few of these that I feel particularly drawn to that really speak more to who I am and what's most

important to me exactly. Yeah, you say that you can pinpoint one of your values by noticing what gives you a feeling of wrongness and then asking what would be the opposite. So, for example, if you're offended by callousness or disregard for people who are vulnerable, perhaps compassion is

a central value for you. Sometimes seeing what you don't want will inform you of what you truly do want correct correct, and to you, that's your soul kind of saying, hey, this is what we want to see in our life. We want to see more of this, but not more of that. Yeah, I love that idea, and I think that can be a really helpful orientation because we very often get stuck on what we don't want to see and the way people are behaving that we don't think

is right. But I think that as a world, we don't have enough focus on what we do want to see and how to bring that about instead of standing in opposition to something all the time and not that they're is not things that we don't need to stand in opposition to. But there's also a really powerful thing of pivoting out of that into well, this is what I do stand for, you know, and what I want to cultivate and bring more of this thing into the world.

It's a it's a more proactive stance, absolutely, and whatever you don't want to see in your opposing is actually telling you, Okay, what do you stand for? Then? Right, there's always the flip side of it, right, And if you want to stay on the on the camp that is complaining and always judging, or if you want to stay on the camp that actually is proactive and wants to pursue something and restore the goodness that you see

for yourself, for your community, or for the world. Yeah, it makes me think of We have interviewed a guy, it's been several months now. His name is Kelly Wilson. He's a Acceptance and Commitment Therapy UM. He's one of the people that was instrumental in the founding of that that form of therapy, Acceptance and Commitment therapy. And he said that our value, us and vulnerabilities are sort of

poured out of the same vessel. And I loved that idea that if we look at our vulnerabilities or in this case, that sense of wrongness that you described, that can often point us to what we do value. Absolutely absolutely. I wrote about two things. One with the human condition is under let's say two governing laws. One is the law of evolution and one is the law of awakening. Now, the law of evolution dictates that we have an ego. Right, we have pain points if you listen to it, her tolly,

and that's the language he uses. Right, we have a side of us that is wounded, and we have a side of us that is probably in connection to evil or in connection to something that is dark or the shadow. Right, and we have a side of us that is good. And it's all about seeking goodness and showing the bright side of us. Right. Um, So the law evolution is all about your own personal growth and your own personal realization.

And self actualization happens through the process of you recognizing the dark side of you, recognizing the wounds and healing those as you move along in order to to realize who you are. But it's never a destination. It's a process. It's a lifelong process. Unlike you know how it is sold right now. You know unleas your potential potentiality is

always a future element. But the here and now, how you are showing up is what is important and what has contributed to that development of you and me and everyone else have been a series of events, have been a series of insights, have been a series of realizations, have been a series of people that have come together in order for us to evolve as human beings. So that the law of evolution dictates us realizing our soul values, dictating us realizing our expression and owning it, and dictating

us understanding our spiritual development. Second law is the law of awakening, which the whole book is all about a lot of awakening and what the spiritual journey looks like. And so say just a little bit more about how the law of awakening is different than the law of evolution. Sure, our souls have three primary needs. The need to find and connect to source, the need to find ways of being,

and the need to find ways of expressing. So the law of evolution is all about you finding ways of being and expressing being, meaning my values, my essential qualities that I want to be in right. And then the other one would be how I'd like to express myself. The third soul need is about finding and connecting to source. So the law of awakening is all about the spiritual journey. How am I awakening to the ultimate truth of this universe?

How can I answer the big questions of life? The minute you start asking those questions, your soul saying, hey, Eric, this is the time to wake up and let's ask those questions so we can find our answers. And we're not going to be eternally seeking, because we will actually arrive to a comfortable place in which we feel comfortable in and we're going to live in that. That's where

we're going to practice s virutuality. Yeah, and another of the words that I pulled out of your work that I thought sort of summarized a big part of what you talk a lot about is the word disconnection. You say, disconnection is the root cause of all suffering. It starts when we disengage from or dismiss the divine present, and it leads us to essentially reject ourselves, our true nature

and our purpose in this life. So say more about disconnection, and then let's maybe spend a few minutes on some means of reconnection. So a disconnection, in my case, manifested when I got married, I started to feel the responsibility of life. I was still a college student. I was still under that sense of responsibility. There's a there's a social conduct and things that we go with as our women.

If you're married and you you're with or in laws, and there is a social gatherings that happened, then you have to honor. But I'm an introvert, right, so that's part of my nature, and I want to stay alone. I don't want to be socializing with other women. So to me, the disconnection happened as soon as I kind of got married, had my first child, and then felt like, this is not the life I wanted. I had a better life before I got married because that life had freedom,

It had me expressing myself freely. But now I joined something that that felt like a betrayal to me. Right. So disconnection is when you start to betray yourself and you don't live the life that is an alignment with who you are. Another form of disconnection is when you're starting to say, I'm going to reject all forms of spiritual nourishment in my life. I don't want any of that and I'm going to close the door to that, and you feel empty inside and you feel purposeless, and

you feel disconnected. So those two elements of disconnecting from yourself, and there's an element of disconnecting from nature as well. The way modern life has brought about modernity, if you will, it has isolated us from nature. We're living in three or four story buildings where we're far away from the earth and we're not actually plugged in, we're not connected. We're wearing shoes that are actually isolating us from the

negative ions of the earth. We're living as far away from let's say, the rivers and the beach and all of these areas that actually feed our souls and give us a sense of connection and care for the earth. So those are the three level of disconnection. Disconnecting from source, disconnecting from nature, and disconnecting from our own set, our own nature. As well. About disconnection from or connection to other people, what is your thought on whether that's an

essential form of disconnection? It is depending on your nature. So in personality temperament, we have people fall on a spectrum and in that spectrum you could be either extremely extroverted or extremely introverted, or you could fall somewhere in between. So your level of connection or disconnection is pretty much personal to you, right. It depends on how much interactivity do you need in your day with other people, and how does that sustain you and how does that feed

your well view. So for the extrovert, they always want to be around people and to them that's the way that they could feel connected right to the introvert is all about my time and honoring that time, and that that's how they feel a sense of well being. That makes total sense. I think everybody is on a spectrum

there and we have different needs. Yet disconnection is a big term for me in the work that I do, and it kind of in my own life being a recovering addict alcoholic, having dealt with the depression, I find that both those things are definitely conditions of disconnection, and that part of the cure for those things is connection to various different things. I think it can be a variety of different things. I think you've summarized it down into three useful categories, and I think anything else I

would bring up would probably slot under those three. But this ability to connect to something bigger than our egoic structures, to me, is the heart of so much healing. You say that life is a dance between connection and disconnection, and every time we re establish our connection, we learned something new about our spirituality that would not have been possible for us to learn had we not experienced disconnection.

Say a little bit more about that, and then say a little bit about how do I learn from disconnection? How does disconnection teach me how to reconnect? So this connection is pretty much a very uncomfortable state, right. It's a state in which we feel despair. It's a state when which we feel helpless and hopeless. Right. We feel like we're shut off from the world. We feel unsupported in many ways. Right. If you look at the way well being works, we're always moving away from pain towards

pleasure or towards good, good vibes, good things. Right. So this connection is a state of pain that is part of your own evolution in a way that allows you to say, this experience is teaching me something new about myself, or teaching me something new about my partner, let's say, or teaching me something new about the world, or teaching me something new about my children. That I'm realizing this

is going on. Right, But that doesn't happen to people who have not practiced self awareness, because to me, that's a key key element for you to be able to take advantage, if you will, of your experience and move

from information to transformation. Right. So the information is the insight that you've gained, and then transformation saying you know what the next thing for me would be to reach out, let's say, or the next thing for me to be to mend this relationship, or the next thing would be for me to ask for help, right, whatever that might be for yourself. So a state of disconnection is a state of pain, and you want to move to a brighter state, which is a state of pleasure, let's call it. Right.

So that to us is what those who cultivated self awareness would be able to do. That swiftly, will be able to kind of not not necessarily accelerated because you you can't actually but really use conscious awareness to move through the process and utilize the insights and allow those to integrate as part of who you are as a human being and move you to more balanced stage, if

you will. O. Those who don't do that, they started becoming vindictive, They started becoming let's say, angry, They started becoming how you didna say, um, you know, stabbing people in the back. They have not learned from their lessons, and they actually don't want to evolve as human beings. I love that line, to move from information to transformation.

I think that's a fun A mental part of growth of any kind I think these days is that because we have no shortage of information, we're overwhelmed by it in a lot of cases. But how we actually use that and we actually allow that to change us as really to me, where a lot of the interesting questions are I agree. Yeah. So another word that you use a lot, and it's the title of your earlier book, is surrender. And so I'd like to talk a little

bit more about this. And I'm just going to read a line that you say, and then I'll let you kind of expound on it. You say, we have been so thoroughly steeped in a culture that convinces us of the power and value of sheer effort, we may see surrender as failure. In fact, surrendering is an act of great courage. It takes a lot of wisdom and faith to let things be. So say a little bit more about surrender and why it's so helpful. So a lot of people think that surrender is a state we're going

to be in when we are in crisis. Right, If I'm in crisis, I can't help it. I've tried everything,

and that's when I surrender. But if you understand what true surrender is is pretty much you going through the spiritual journey that allows you to find source, no source, and understand the qualities and attributes of that divine that gives you comfort, that gives you support, and then you align to that and you say this is my path, right, and then you move into a state of surrender where you're really finding grace and those moments where you need help,

right in moments where you're a child in the operation room and you're praying so hard for their recovery, and that it happens right in the moment when you're in an accident and you just feel like this is it, this is gonna be my last moment, and then you pray and then it just you know, things turn around. Right. Those are pretty profound moments, and it's surrender is practice involuntarily, But what I'm talking about is actually the practice of

surrender and your daily life. Right, how do you move from that being put down to your knees into a state in which you are waking up every day and saying, I surrender this day to you, and I'm going to be doing the best that I can, knowing that I've already have cultivated self awareness, knowing what are my values, knowing what I love to express and my gifts, and I'm going to do the best that I can in

my sphere of influence. And then I let go the remaining elements to the divine right because I can't control. What I can't control is what our control ends, you know, what the divine takes over. Right, that's where the divine realm starts, where we we no longer can control any of the outcomes. So that's the state of surrenders, like you wake up every day knowing like you and I had technical difficulties at the very beginning of the call, and I was like, okay, fine, you know, if it

happens great. If it doesn't, then it's fine too, Right, that's a state of surrender. I'm not going to feel bad about it, or I will not wallow or I fail. No, not at all. You know, if it happens great, So that's a state of surrender. Is a state of allowance of you know what God has in planned for you. Sorry about the airplane, that's okay. So you say that when we decide to embrace surrender in our lives, who are asked to become more and more discerning of what

is within our control and what is not. And I like what you just said a minute ago, that we do what's in our control, and then at the end of that point is kind of where the divine takes over or whatever word you want to use at that place. But it's the place where all of a sudden it's kind of out of our hands. And I've often said on this show that I think the serenity prayer maybe the single wisest thing that was ever said, because it

alleviates so much trouble in life. We can actually get that right, you know, let me change the things I can and let me accept the things I can't. And then of course that wisdom to know the difference is the ever elusive thing. How do I know when I've done what I can and what I can't. You say, the fact that we do have a zone of influence, this gray area in which we are able to exert some degree of will power and we're able to exert some degree of influence, creates the illusion that we are

in control. And so I'm just curious in your own life, how do you go about figuring out, all, right, this is in my control and I need to exert my human will to the best of my ability to make this change, and how do I know when to let go? And again, some things are really obvious when we talk about this. Will be like, well, you know something like the weather, and I'm like, we all know the weather is out of our control, right, But in the day to day life things get a lot more nuanced and

a lot harder to sort out than that. And let's go back to a temperament, if will, because it depends on on also your personality in a way in which are you an action taker kind of person or use somebody who was determined this is who you are, or are you somebody who who likes to be in the moment, do things as they happen, right, without any plan, without anything. It depends right, So people respond to the element of

surrender in the way that they experience themselves. Right for me in my life, you asked me about how that manifests in my life, and I go get it. You know, I've got something. I'm going to go and do it. Whether my husband approves or doesn't approve, or he wants to do with it this way, I'm like, I'm just doing it. I'm going for it. That element of you taking action, you take action as much as you can.

And there are elements as I do, as I'm taking the action knowing there is a possibility of this not working, and there is a possibility this working out, and so there's a fifty fifty chance, and I'm going to do the best that I can based on the knowledge and experience that I have right now, and then I'm going to let it come. I can't do more right, And

there is always an element of time. You have to allow the passage of time for you to know the answer as well, because with the passage of time, you'll you'll see if an idea keeps coming back to you, it means you know there's something to pick up there, right or if if there is a bit of glimmer of hope that comes back in your life, you know there's something to pick up. But if there isn't any kind of like dies out, you know this store is closed, the job is not yours, and you move on. Yeah.

I love that. I think bringing up our temperament is really important. It makes me think back to my early days in a a and at that point, you know, people stressed acceptance all the time. You know the acceptance is the answer to all our problems. They were always talking about acceptance, and I looked at and I thought

about it. I was like, I think, maybe what I need more is the courage to change, because I think at that point in my life I was very much like well whatever, you know, kind of guy like whatever. And I don't know if that was really my temperament or that's where I was with my alcoholism, but I think there were a number of years and probably actually I think it's still true now, even though I think it's more balanced for me, I needed to know like, Okay, I probably need to air on the side of courage

to change because I have such an accepting nature. And I think that's a really great point because I see the same thing and coaching clients that I work. Some coaching clients have a tendency to be too easy on themselves and they need some pushing and they need a little, you know, gentle nudging to try and do more and to be more accountable to themselves. And there's other people who are really really hard on themselves, and for those people, we need to work on more self compassion. So you

can't say you need more of this. It really does depend on your temperament. Correct, Yeah, absolutely right. Can we touch back on on what you said about acceptance nature and what I find in this world right now that we live in with so much information coming our way. I just want to make a point here because we have to be aware of what's happening. With so much information coming at us from all sides, from our mobile phones, from our laptops, or from wherever we go in the

street and the ads and everything. Do remember that we have a certain amount of will power that we apply in one day, and this touches us back onto how do we have courage to change? And how can you transform yourself? Right? When we're always bombarded with that information, we're actually making decisions and the modern day human makes decisions more than people did a hundred years ago, and one day more than people did and a hundred years ago,

or they did in one single year. So there's a lot of information and we're always constantly making decisions and it's depleting our ability to make changes, profound and important

changes in our lives. So this is something to be aware of in terms of it's called it information toxicusy, if you will, and it's just too much all at once coming at you, paralyzing your brain and your ability to process information, or your ability to make good choices and decisions for yourself, for your family, and for your life. So those are important elements to pay attention to in order to seek a better life and a better quality

of life. I totally agree, and I think that is really sort of amazing, the amount of small decisions that we make and how connected we are and how much information comes at us. And that's why I love that line about the difference between information and transformation, because we have way more information than we could ever possibly need, and a whole lot less transformation than most of us

would like to see in our own lives. So that leads us very well to one last thing that you wrote that I'll read and let you expound on, and then we'll we'll wrap up. You say that most of us live life from the outside in. In other words, we react to what comes to us rather than acting

from what is within us. And I wanted to read that because I think it speaks very much to what you were just saying about if we are constantly consuming information, and you are actually saying that pretty early on too, about if all I'm doing is consuming things, and I am reacting to what comes to me rather than allowing what's happening to come from a deeper place within me. So say a little bit more about that and then

we'll wrap up. Sure again going back to the information transformation paradigm, to understand that we are information consuming being. This is what we love to do, seeking knowledge and understanding and troubleshooting and doing all that. This is some think brilliant. We love to do that and we've always done it since the beginning of humanity, in the beginning of time, right, So to understand that is an essential nature of who we are is a good thing. But

processing affirmation also takes time. Integrating information takes time. All of these elements are very important because if you've seen Lenda Bearance model, just done research on this, and her model of the self is an interesting model. She starts with describing what is called core self, which is pretty much the self that who we are, the insight self. It's your your soul, the qualities that you come with,

the tendencies, expressions, your essence, if you will. This is who you are at your core, right and from that space there is a contextual self that comes about which is a reactionary self to the environment. The context. Yourself is myself that says school is teaching me this, or or I have to be a mother here, or have to be a dad here, or have to be a sister here. So this is based on the context and the environment. And then finally you have the developmental self,

which is the self that develops over time. Right, this is who you become as an adult. You become more adapted, you become more let's say, well behaved, you adapt to certain situations, you develop emotional intelligence, You've developed a brighter, bigger understanding of who you are in your life. Right, But the core self stays intact. The courself doesn't go away.

The courself is what feeds you. So living from the inside out is all about allowing the core self to take the lead as well, giving her space, allowing the core of who you are to let's say, unpack itself into the outside environment and the way it manifests for me in my life. I love to have a connection with nature. Therefore I created a beautiful garden outdoor. I made sure. This is like, I can't live without a

beautiful garden. Right. The wait manifest for me. I love to to have beauty in my environment, and there's always plants and flowers all around, because that's how it manifests right the core of who you are. I wear colorful scars because it's this color that is I love to do right. It's part of who I am. So allowing the inner to exhibit itself in the outer is very important for you and for your well being, for you to express who you are excellent. Well, thank you so

much Iman for coming on the show. I've really enjoyed this conversation and I really enjoyed your work, and thank you so much. Thank you Eric for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation as well. Thank you. If what you just heard was helpful to you, Please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You've Need podcast. When you join our membership community with this monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits. It's our

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