Dave Davies of The Kinks

hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. While Dave Davies of the legendary band The Kinks needs little in the way of an introduction, a few people may realize that his talents and interests stretch far beyond that

of a famous guitarist. In addition to surviving The Kinks, Dave also survived a debilitating stroke in two thousand four, only to follow up with a hugely productive decade Most recently, he released a new record in two thousand thirteen called I Will Be Me, and just released a new book called Heal, which is a guide to meditation. And here's the interview with Dave Davies. Hi, Dave, welcome to the show. Go ahead and saying guys, yeah, thanks so much for

joining us. We're really we're really happy to have you. So our podcast is called The One You Feed, and it's based on the parable where there is a grandfather and he's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and braver in love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear, and they are always

at at war with each other. And the grandson stops and he thinks and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says the one you Feed. So our show is really about how people apply that parable in their lives. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life

and in your work. I know that story well because I've been fighting with the guy on I Love that story when I was about five years old and I was walking home from school, and you know when you were a kid and you walk, when you look at the pavement, you have a little slabs and theo's lines and he sort of like play hop scotch new I don't want to walk in the cracks, but then sometimes you might want to walk in the cracks and not walk on the cliffs stone. You know what I'm saying.

And I distinctly remember one voice on one shoulder and the left shoulder, and one voice for me right shoulder, with me in the middle saying gone. One would say gone, walk on the cracks, and the other one played dark walk into spaces. And so it kind of it shows itself. That kind of parable that metic for looms up quite a lot when you're very young as well. It shows itself in many different forms. I kind of believe that we need both wolves. The problem, the difficulty we have

is integrating them so they worked together. I don't necessarily think that the dark Wolf is bad. It just needs to be integrated right exactly real quick day, we're hearing some clicking. I don't know if your microphone is clicking against your shirt at all, that's probably my fidgeting. I do fidget a lot of Sorry, no, no problem, I'm I'm a well, I'm a well known fidgetter myself. Um. So you just recently wrote a book and released it called Hell and it's an instruction guide to meditation that

I read the other day. Do you want to tell us a little bit more about the book? Yeah, he is really for you. Um is a short book, many books. I wanted to to keep it short because I wanted to get to the point quickly and hopefully devise a few exercises that can help people. Were so bombarded by all different things in our lives, from the Internet, from the workplace and driving and everything is kind of bombarding our minds and feelings. And half the time I think

we're not really aware of what really do. We seem to be just caught in this often chaotic state of mind, just and we're bubbling up and down in this raging ocean, just hoping to get through an app that day. And it's certainly not a very good way to live. And I think, um, all the great mystics, I think all there are great spiritual teachers always taught about in a creating distance between your soul if you like, or your realself and what's going on outside yourself, because it's the

only way to see the wood from the trees. It's kind of just to step back and have a look at what really it really is going on as unemotionally as possible, because because directly we sit and trying to sit calmly, and we get involved with negative emotion, we're all, let's say again, being tossed around in this world ocean. Well,

didn't just sit there and go mad or confused. It's always good to try and do something with your mind or your you know, you might have had an argument with you brought just for just for example, right or delay the next door or someone at work, and like it can really take over your whole being. Yeah, and your book you you describe a meditation practice, and today

mindfulness meditation is kind of all the rage. You hear a lot about it, and your book you actually describe a three part as I understood, a three part meditation method where you start out with some deep breathing, then you go into some some mantra or chanting work, and then finally you do some visualization. At the end of that, do I do. I understand it pretty well what you're

trying to teach. Yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah. One of my favorite teachers was a swami, Vivid Canander and from India, and he kind of to talk some great disciplines and he's one of these things he said that already struck a chord were called called me was that he said, if you breathe deeply, you think deeply. And conversely, if you breathe in a shallow way, you're thinking in a similar way. So breath in the way we think really affect that the body physiologically, we're in this this no

not time masume just it's robot if you like. That's physical and mental and imaginary and is notional. And we I think our task a job is to try and work with at least different elements. And I think it's interesting being a musician and a writer that you're kind of doing that anyway. Imagination when you think of things and what do you do with them when you're move them around like a game, and it's the imagination is

a really powerful talk. But every can and talk about breathing, how it affects the mind and how it can help um the willpower not not only just that when you breathe deeply you get more oxygen to the brain. You it also gives you a sense of center, or believe it makes you feel more self empower. It's almost as if we're scared or terrified just to sit down and be quiet. It's hard. It is hard. It is hard to sit and do nothing. And when you say it,

enclose your eyes, you get bombarded with everything. Oh the car, I've got to the carding garage, I've got going to get groceries. Oh, why didn't I was supposed to call it? You know, it's endless, these things that mind just toys, toys with us constantly. And now I try to do some conscience simple practices so I think are beneficial. No, and I've kept why. I kept the book short, so you can read it in one session, you know, and the things you can do straightaway, little breathing things, um,

relaxation exercises and um. You know, I don't think people will benefit from the book. It's very it's very practical. And just a second ago you talked about how beneficial you think this stuff is. And I know you had a stroke in two thousand and four and some of their reading I've done. You attribute a lot of your recovery that stroke to meditation and other spiritual practice, is correct, Oh, absolutely, And it was like, um, this kind of weird striving that we have. Now we want to come out on

the other end. But all the it was like well, running around trying to escape some sort of pain or suffering. But in the end it's going to just take us away that think that acceptance of the inevitability of life is death. We shouldn't. It shouldn't be approached in a fearful way. So a lot of confusion in our lives. I feel arrived from fear. When we're fearful, we can't breathe. You know, when you see someone in the panic, they not getting any breath into the lungs or into the brain.

That's why breathing is something important, even simple breathing, so we can try and relax the body, so that we can try and see what's going on in the mind. When we're in a state of fair we can't do anything. And so specifically, how were these things helping you with the with the stroke recovery. What parts of that did you did you find it be most value in helping you to recover maybe more strongly than somebody that didn't

have these tools. Well, yeah, because it was because I practiced these type of techniques of my life, or since my early twenties at least that when I was in that state that I was paralyzed and lying on me back, I didn't lose consciousness. But you have to use everything the disposal. How can I get out of the situation. I mean, it was almost it was so debilitating, it was almost funny. It was like, I think I know things and I can do things, but actually sometimes you

just cannot do anything about life. I think acceptance of that really taught me a lot about my own personality, about my own person and I say, as I went through the process of recovery, my spiritual ideas and meditation all help me through it, bit by bits, step by step. It's the easiest thing in the world to be pessimistic, to be negative, or that don't work. Why should I

bother me that never work before? And all that, And I think directly we go into that state of mind, it gets fed by one of the wolves, and it's many many allies in our mind and in our consciousness. So that's why we always have to. And there's so many metaphors, isn't there all be positive or looked to the light and and all these things. The bad Wolf does seem to have a lot of allies in our culture these days. I think it's everywhere you go. So we try and have the bad Wolf entirely, or do

we embrace him. It's intent that drives the result whatever we want to do. What why do we do things? What's the intent behind every action that we do? But it's picking up a pen or just having a thought. And if we can persuade the bad Wolf, don't think we should be so hard on him. I think it should be included. Like the the old style track farms, And there was a great lines, great lines and all there was some guy, some profit so that he knew

where God existed in the universe. So he hijacked the Enterprise and then to get to this place where he thought God was central the universe. And he had some kind of hypnotic trick where he'd hold one of the crew and and he goes up to Kirk and it's at all Captain Kirk, let me take a little pain. And Kirk turns around and says, I need my pain. I love that it. Maybe we need to so called dark side. It's like Star Wars and a wonderful, deep, multi lade story about metaphysical war in our own minds.

You know, Star War was an incredible concept. There's a great scene in the Empire strikes Back when Luke and it's already funny. Mark Hamill was a dear friend of mine, and there's a big Kins fan, and there's a great scene when I think Mark has to confront his dark side and he cuts its said ahead of and inside the helmet, it's it's himself. So the dark guy is himself as well. So what do we do with it? Is it wise try and kill it entirely? To cut

it off? I think that's a big, big mistake, if I may say so, or if I may not say, I'm saying that maybe that's a fundamental error in religion. It's trying to cut off or get rid of these elements that maybe unsavory at first, but um, maybe we need to understand why that those illergies and those forces that are within us respond, not act or react in the way they do. I think it's all too to do with them intent and nurturing and understanding. All these

things have to come first. So let's talk about music for a second. Um, I'd like to ask you about your your solo work. If you look back on the on the solo work you've done over your your career, I'm curious, what what song for you? Do? You feel like the stars truly aligned and you've got everything just the way you wanted it. The music, the lyrics, the recording, everything which which one you know, everything came together for

you that you feel most proud of. I think the things that catch you by surprise always a special thing. You really got mes and it was a series of really clumsy events that led up to that that recould be in my and when I look back, I think, how the hell did we do that? On my latest album as a track called coat do Yeah, we love that one, which is which seemed to just come out of itself. We got built out so mean might have

been here, no call to rong, just supermarket beer. I just got fast it outside my front door, making you want fashion that Let's stick chicks. He sets his turning tricks at night and the bull surveillance gives me the com goes free. So It's based on a a character that I made up, but it's obviously part of me, and it's part of people that I met. So I spent many years in l A. This guy, he lives in cent apartment. He's been through a mill and he company hasn't got any money and he can lose his flat,

his apartment, and what's he going to do. I think the parts in the song of this guy's character that like me, the part where the guy talks about when he was a kid, when I was just a lad, I dreamed about a place, and that was me and really imposing myself on this guy's life, if you like. And I as a child, I always imagined that the future is gonna be full of hope and fields and

beautiful things animals. And I still think that you made a joke about it earlier, and I'm sure you get tired of questions about you and your brother's relationship, and I want to put a slightly different spin on it, because what I'm curious about is how is how these spiritual practices help you to deal with that relationship and make it better as you get older. Well, as I said, it's um continue work because I think the most precious

thing that I've learned in my life. I've probably learned from my brother that the confrontational aspects of it, the two people, two people being so vastly different from each other, it seems like a battle. But we're each other's teachers, and it seems very hard because we had a lot of karma and there are a lot of lessons to be learned, and it's a very special kind of relationship. But I'm thankful that it's been so difficult because I needed to find out things that I might not have

failed out any other way. So looking back on some of um, looking back on some of the Kinks records, that would be curious. You're obviously very well uh, you know, associated with with you really got me in. But I'd be curious, what are some of your other favorite riffs from the Kinks period, Because there's so many great ones. We talked about the famous ones a lot. I'd be curious if you have a couple others that maybe aren't

quite as well known that you're particularly proud of. There's on my first solo solo album in there's a lot of roofs on there, Wow, And and there's a song called in you, I believe, And there's a riff behind that that I love very much, and that it goes down and that very quickly. I don't know. I like I'd like things that move around and got them down quickly, probably like my merchants. Yeah, there's that unlike Schoolboys and Disgrace has got some great riffs and i'd love love riffs. Well,

you're you're good at them. We were listening to Waterloo Sunset not too long ago and just we're just the guitar party on that is perfect. It's just it's wonderful, dirty. That's you keep people so easy, make me feel busy, light, chin so and right. But yeah, it's very special record. And um, I mean right is uncanny sometimes is observations are so point, it's sad and just, but still feel like it's something about his right and looking so hard and I love that about his writing. Is that looking

observing and which is like a meditation. I mean, we can't see unless we really penetrate the veil. We need to really look at people in the way they behave and the body language and their flowns and their life. And you can tell so much from the way people laugh and mortally sounds. It is very beautiful observational piece

of poetry as well as sonically. It's full of light and hope and companies sound very lucky to be involved with some really truly incredible pieces of music, which when you're doing them you don't always realize what you're doing, so you um you had you were in the in the process. I think of of promoting the record Bug

when you had your stroke. And my partner Chris, one of his favorites is Flowers in the Rain from that record, Oh blessing all the things I didn't say, all these words keep going out and I miss you most alone when I see Flowers in Shock something life can be cool. I was in at that time and I was thinking, I really miss England. I've got to get back to England. And there's something for me family the special about the

Moorlands in Dartmoor and ex More in Devon. It holds a special feeling for me in these more Land places where you can go and get totally lost in nature in the rain and it's always raining in the cold. And I went back to England and I went to Devon Countries over their friends and we sat in the middle of Dartmore, which is a beautiful place. And I felt and I said to the woman, I said, when I die, I went to plant me. I want you to plant me up in the ground here because I

got off actually grow. And it sounds like an insane person, but it's like I felt, like we plants, you know, and then we might not be physically attached to the But I think there's certain places places on earth that we have more intimate intimacy with than the others. And I find Dartmore very special place. And Flowers in the Rain came out of that feeling and the I missed you most of all, and it is directed at people have known that are there no more, But it's also

about the place in Dartmore. So I missed the place and the flowers in the rain. It's really about a place all that it's got memories about people. So yeah, it's a special song from me. It's a beautiful song. So you mentioned at the beginning you're you're really busy. So what what's coming up with you? New records, touring, what other things are going on? Well, I've try signed an indeed deal for a new album because after the other album It's already given me a sense of like,

not what's next, what's next? And so I'm writing songs for a new album I've I won't tell you what it's about because a spoiler. I'm looking forward to start recording that. I'm doing a big show in London. I haven't played in London thirteen years, and they're playing at a place called the Barbican on April the eleventh, and I'm really really excited about that, playing in my hometown and not actually far from where my family grew up,

so it's kind of a really special feeling. I'm also working on a paperback version of the Heel book, and I wanted to promote and pursue that. I'm hoping after the Barbican on the eleventh, I'll come back to the States and do some selected shows because rock and roll in your blood. As I say, we'd love to love to see a plane over here in the States about So are you all right? We are in Ohio, cool Columbus, Ohio. Yea.

And I think if I didn't ask this, Kinks fans around the world might find us and hunt us down because it is the fiftieth anniversary. Any any word on on you guys playing together for that, not really because I don't know why, but we have to put I was saying to write what the other day were the other week? You know, what's all this stress and pressure about a fifty year Don't they realize that it's going to be the fifty first, Yeah, celebration of the Kinks

name ship and the fifty second right after that. One of the things though, that I read in an article of yours recently that I admired was you sort of talked about you seem to have a real sense of integrity around not wanting to do something that's not good, not wanting to do it for the money. You you talked about some other bands of your age who seem to just keep sort of milking the last out of the profits, and you seem to be much more focused

on doing something that's meaningful and important. It's about intent and going back to that word, you know, I want to do I'm saying to me, I would love to for us to work together, but I want to do something that makes me happy, right. You know, I'm sure we can make a lot money if we're two old guys calling up and stay just blasting so yeah, a bunch of songs, and I'm sure we can make up

quite a lot of money. But I don't want to go in my little quiet time and look okay myself inside and think what you do, and I'll be playing with the Wolves again. Ray Dave Davies and the Bad Wolves Reunited. Dave, this has been a really enjoyable talk. We I liked I like the book, we like your latest solo record. We're looking to seeing more from you, so thanks so much for joining us today. I like

what you're doing. It's a really cool idea. We'll let me know if there's anything else can help with and and stay in touch. We will, and uh hopefully we'll see here in the States sometime over the next couple of years. Yeah cool, Okay, thanks, Thanks, take care of you. Yep. Bye. You can learn more about this podcast and Dave Davies at one you feed dot net slash Dave Davies