Danielle Laporte: Has your self-help become self-criticism?

what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Danielle Laporte, a speaker, poet, painter, and former business strategist and Washington d C Think tank executive.

Danielle is also an invited member of Oprah Winfrey's Super Soul One. She is the author of many books, including her new one White Hot Truth Clarity for Keeping It Real on your spiritual path from one seeker to another. If you're getting value out of the show, please go to one you feed dot Net slash Support and make a donation. This will ensure that all five episodes that are in the archive will remain free and that the

show is here for other people who need it. Some other ways that you can support is is if you're interested in the book that we're discussing on today's episode, go to one you feed dot net and find the episode that we're talking to out. There will be links to all of the author's books, and if you buy them through there, it's the same price to you, but we get a small amount. Also, you can go to one you feed dot Net slash Book and I have

a reading list there. When you feed dot net slash shop and you can buy t shirts, mugs and other things. And finally, one you feed dot net slash Facebook, which is where our Facebook group is and you can interact with other listeners of the show and get support in feeding your Good Wolf. Thanks again for listening, and here's the interview with Danielle Report. Hi Danielle, Welcome to the show. Hi everybody. I'm very happy to have you on. As we were talking about before we got started, I recorded

an interview with you. It was quite some time ago, and it it was the first time I ever tried to record an interview without Chris, my partner with me, and I blew it and so we've never been able to air it. So I'm very excited to have you back and get to have this conversation again. I didn't know it was the first time you tried to record it solo. Here we are. Yeah, I happened to be out of town and I've got it all down now. I've got to figured out, but I didn't then. So what you

learn learn as you go. So um, your latest book is called White Hot Truth Clarity for Keeping it Real on your spiritual Path from one seeker to another. And we'll get into that book in just a minute, but let's start like we normally do, with a parable. There's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always

at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that

you do. That parable Always choose I think you know, the most important word in all of this is truth. But always choose generosity. I feed my capacity to be generous. Yeah, there's a line that's in your book, and it was in one of your previous books too. You've got this idea of in the latest book. You call it reframing your obligations into conscious choices. Can you talk about that

because that is so important to me in my life. Well, I think you know, this is part of getting in the driver's seat of your life and really being an intentional creator and completely washing out any victim mentality out of your consciousness. You know, the worst extreme is that that kind of robotic, unconscious way of living. I have a really long list of obligations, all these things that we think we need to do, and in that approach, there's a lack of choice, there's a woo. So what

was me there? There's a you know, life is happening to you and I don't think it happens that way at all. Or you can choose. You can choose that other that positive wealth doesn't happen to happen the way. So to push most people's thinking on this, the push back would be, well, what about feeding my kids? That's an obligation. What about taking care of my ailing aging parents that's an obligation. What about my mortgage? I gotta pay my mortgage. You actually don't have to do any

of those things. You could choose to be unethical, you could choose to be careless, you could you choose to be lawless, but you're still making a conscious choice to be a good son or daughter and a loving parent and uh, you know, a responsible mortgage holder. So you know, when you frame everything as a choice, you're empowered. It's a completely different energetic approach to things. Yeah, I agree.

I have that aim kind of conversation with myself and with other people, which is like, no, you don't have to do that thing that you just said you have to do. I mean you you don't. You could get on a bus tomorrow and hide in California and live on the streets if you wanted to, Like, you've got lots of options. And whenever I remember that, it is so helpful to me to get me out of that like you said, the woe is me, or I have

to do this, I have to do that. It just it opens me up so much to realizing that I am, you know, the author of my own life to some degree. And I heard you somewhere recently, and I don't know where I heard it, but you were making this list

of all the things in our lives. We choose. We choose what we eat for dinner, we choose what dishes we put in our cabinet, we choose what you know, what art goes on our walls or on our desk, and and that how we are making so many choices in life, and that being artistic and creative is really about making choices, and we can bring that artistic or

creative spirit into everything that we do. You know, what I think is really key about what you said about the choices and the obligations is there's a lot of different choices that we can make. So when you move out of that the weight I mean even saying the word obligation. It's just such a heavy crap word. You know. When you move out of the weight of that and you're still feeling resentment, I mean, there's lots of stuff

to resent. There's lots of stuff that is not fun to do in life that you're still choosing to do. You can start to make different choices under that commitment you're making. So it's like, yeah, I'm taking care of my aging parents and it's heavy duty. But you know, if I move more into the power of choice, and maybe I could get someone to take a shift for me. Maybe I could ask for some of my inheritance money

now to cover the bills. Maybe you know what, maybe they don't need as much attention and care as I thought. And I'm just doing this at a guilt and I can lay off and I can have a vacation. So there's this loosening when you loosen up on the weight of obligation, and then your creativity starts to flow. It

gets lighter, exactly. So I want to circle back. This leads us right into one of the topics I had, which was, you know, a theme early in the book and really through a lot of the book, you say that my spiritual path had become another to do list. So in this case, you know, we were just talking about obligations, and a lot of us turn the spiritual path into yet another obligation. Well, I think in this case it's more about it being another thing to achieve,

So then it becomes an obligation. I'm going to be a better person, I'm going to be more giving, I'm going to be in better shape, I'm going to be more healthy, i'm going to be more evolved, I'm going to think more clearly. And with that achievement intention, then there's so many things you can put on your to do list. It's another workshop. It's having to meditate, it's having to pray, it's a new wellness regime. It's all

sorts of two does. And I shudos are great if they're getting you somewhere that's more fulfilling, if you like, you're really feeling expanded, and ideally you know, your teats are awesome. They go from good to great if you're experiencing some joy on the whale to expanding. It's like there's many times there's many parts of my quote unquote spiritual practice that aren't easy and they require some discipline, and you know, I I meditate on a regular basis,

and it's not always fun. Working my day around that. I have to get up earlier. I gotta make my kids lunch at night so I can have my fifteen minutes to my happen or whatever it is in the morning to sit and do my thing. I still struggle with feeling like I'm not up to my commitment as a planetary citizen if I didn't sit that morning and send some light to the world, or pray for you know, victims of the hurricane, or do whatever I think I need to do that day. Um, I don't feel like

anybody's keeping score anymore. I'm free to choose the practice that works for me. And that's what's changed for me. It's like I am choosing joy inducing practices. The yoga that works for me. It's not the hardcore hot yoga. It's really chill stuff. The exercise that works for me. It doesn't have to be every day a week, just three days a week is cool. You know. The kind

of meditation that works for me. It turns out I go out of my mind if I sit for a long periods of time and watch my in breath and watch my out breath and try to empty my mind. It's not how I'm wired. I choose something that fits my personality, that fills me up. It's a big difference, way more fulfilling to be devoted when the practice itself

has some delight to it. Yeah, I agree completely. And in the book you're talking about the striking the balance between you say, sincere spiritual aspiration versus the compulsion to change ourselves. One of the central themes of this show that I'm asking all the time is that, like, how do we balance that idea of you know, I'd like to be a better person. I'd like to do this, I'd like to do that, you know, having some ambition and also being content right where you are with what

you have. And I'm just interested in your thoughts on how you how you work through striking that balance. Well, I think you have to ask yourself the question why do you want to be a better person? It sounds like, you know, ironic and a bit but now, but like why is it to impress your God? Is it to make more money? Is it some guilt programming that you got from your parents or your church? Um? Is it part of being cool and your self help in your new age circle. Are you like to really just polishing

your halo? I've always loved that phrase. Or do you feel better when you're a better person? Do you feel more expanded and more loving and sex here and more flexible and more intelligent and let more in touch with life and your version of God when you're doing your version of being a better person. So like two very different motivations. Yeah, I agree, And I think for me, all that stuff has gotten to a point where I do most of it simply as a way to feel better.

It does make me feel better, I mean exercise. I say this on the show all time. I'm sure people are perhaps tired of hearing it, but it's not about how I look anymore. That's a side benefit. It's not so much that I'll die in twenty years versus fifteen. It's really like for my day to day mental health and meditation kind of falls into the same boat, and

eating right falls into the same boat. They're all things that relieve suffering in my life, relieve suffering and creates Joe at the same time, Like it's there's a tipping point. It's a tipping point. I think if you do it for the right reasons. Right, here's a question I've got for you. Because a lot of us are driven to spiritual practice and things like meditation and yoga and eating well and all those different things because we are in pain.

That's where a lot of this starts. And what I've seen with a lot of people is that once the pain goes away, so does the desire to do some of these things. How how have you worked with people through that, you know, once they kind of have moved from being in pain and not sort of settling back into okay, everything's okay. Now, Well, I think everybody does that to some degree. You're going to slip off track, and getting off track is part of deepening your devotion.

It's like I didn't meditate this week. I don't feel as useful, I'm not thinking as clearly. Okay, I'm gonna at least get three days in this week or five days or whatever. So I have a lot more compassion for myself when I get off track. I think, you know, what you're talking about can be laziness, you know, it can like sometimes we just need to call ourselves on it. Like you know, my current question right now, I'm about

to do big speaking big this weekend. Um to people who you know they self identify as like high achievers, and I really want to put it to them and say, like, really, come on, how devoted are we? Because personally, I'm really

interested in going the distance. I think it's not enough to kind of be on the self help path or to kind of be kind like with the current state of the world and psychology for for most of us, I mean personally, as someone who considers themselves, Um, it's not enough for me to just be a good person. I have to be engaged. It's not enough for me to just donate a little bit of money here and there. I've got to bake philanthropy into my business model. It's

not enough for me to just quietly meditate. I need to be vocal a about what I think is ideal, you know, an ideal society to live in, Like I gotta go to distance. So we take a few steps forward with our practice, we eat right, and then we go back to sleep. I think you know, commit comme in. I think that's like were where some tough love comes in, Like are you in or not? And let me tell you,

devotion is not easy, but it's worth it. And it's just like you know, your relationship with spirit, it's not a cakewalk, and this is part of it. It's it's like your relationship with anything, any person. The rough parts

requires commitment and seeing it through and being flexible. And I think this is part of the dogma, the bill of goods that we've been getting for a long time from the New Age, which is once you're on the path and you learn how to follow your intuition and you really really eyes that you're one with humanity, then there's this grace and there's this flow that comes into your life. Well, I can tell you I'm on the path.

I'm very devoted to the path. I'm devoted to teaching by the path, and that has not been my experience. There is a there is a lot of grind. I still have extreme stuff, you know, well extreme is an extreme way of putting. But I still suffer very deeply. I still have intense struggles in my life. But I'm not going to get off the path because I have deeper love, I have deeper fulfillment. Easy, no worth it. Yes, And here's the rest of the interview with Daniel Apport.

I think we are all looking for that silver bullet, and then suddenly life will just be easy, Like I'll find the right way to meditate, or I'll read the right book, or I'll follow this correct practice, or I'll find this new exercise, and suddenly life will always be easy. And that's just not the way it works. You used a word in their suffering, and in your book you talk about making a distinction between pain and suffering. This is a bit of an extreme statement, but it's really

worth considering for like mental clarity. I think that often suffering as a choice. Um, you know, suffering is optional. Pain not always optional. So it's like a physical example, you break a bone, you feel pain, it's inevitable. The suffering is what comes after, Like you know, it's it's a drag that you can't walk, It's a drag that you have to take, the medicine whatever you're incapacity. You go through a breakup, the pain is the breakup itself, separation.

The suffering is how long are you going to hold on? How bitter are you going to be? How long does it take you to get over it? Um, are you choosing to forgive or you're not choosing to forgive? I mean, I got lots to say about not choosing to forgive and why sometimes that's actually an enlightened approach. So yeah, I think suffering is something that you have control over,

that a lot of us have control over. And I don't want to broad brush stroke this and say, you know, someone who's in Syria right now has no choice over their suffering. That's an extreme situation. And no, you know, self help, how to is gonna help you get through that? Necessarily. I agree with the pain is happens. Life delivers pain. It's just it's a it's a very effective pain delivery mechanism, I suppose you could say, but it is skign of

what are the stories we tell ourselves? And a lot of times for me, I've started just thinking about it from a perspective of how do I just not make it worse? Like life has given me this thing? How can I just not pile on more pain? With everything I'm telling myself? You know, I tell the parable of the second arrow all the time, you know how the first arrow is kind of that life you get shot, the pain you get, and then the second arrow is

everything we add on top of it. And it's it's so true and then you know, there comes the third arrow, which is I'm feeling bad about myself because I'm not able to not suffer over it, and and on and on it goes. Lightening up can help a lot. Yeah, yeah, not. Alan Watts says, there will always be suffering. The trick is to not suffer over the suffering, to stay out of that. Why me, It's just like, this is what's happening. Sometimes you don't even need to solve it. It doesn't

need to be your karma. You don't even have to look at why you created it. Just do what you have to do to not make it worse and get through it. Yeah. Speaking of other great minds, you quote Martin Bouber in the book with I'm assuming I think that's how you say it. Um. Yeah, but I love this phrase and it says the world is not comprehensible, but it is embraceable. Yeah. Isn't that great? He's so lovely? Yeah? Yeah,

what's that mean to you? You got to leave lots of room for mystery, you know, our human capacities, And I kind of I put that in quotes because you know, I think we're spiritual beings who have crammed ourselves into these little suitcases called bodies and made a lot of choices to forget our divinity in order to have these experiences. So are we capable of comprehending the greatness of life

and how it all works? No? I think, you know, when you get to a certain point of comprehension, you don't need to You definitely do not need to be on this dimension anymore. But you can really be intentionally on this ride. Like you know, a lot of my friends and I this past week had been talking about all the suffering that's happening on the planet, and you know, we're really having practical conversations. I'm about to have some friends over for dinner in the next couple of weeks

talk about earthquake preparedness. We're really feeling heartbroken over what's happening politically with immigration and children in the US, and like, what can we do? And can I produce more meditations that go up on my website? How would I raise my mind? And when I really go down that rabbit hole of where the world is at at least you know the dark side of it. You know, I worry about my grandchildren, I worry about my kid. I have a son, and is he going to be able to

breathe clean air. I mean, there's so many different directions that could go. And in terms of like bad directions, here's what's getting my friends and I through right now. We just go We signed up for this, We chose to be born to incarnate at this time. I've got something to learn. And if I don't have much to learn, which I think you know is unlikely, at least I've got a lot to offer. And I'm here. I'm here now in this time of history, human history for a reason.

So I'm going to embrace it. I'm gonna embrace it. And on the quote unquote spiritual path, which I think too often is about ascension, I'm going to embrace being human. I'm going to love food. I'm going to love all the sensual things that come with being human, from food to rock and roll to like, you know, great holidays and a man. And I'm going to do my esoteric work at the same time. I mean, I'm really interested

in heaven on earth. You know. Well, I looked up that quote after I read it in your book, and it goes on to say it's embrace able by embracing the things that are in it. You know, by embracing the things in the world is how it becomes embraceable to us. And I just I loved that when I read it, and I think it gets to what you were just saying. It's about being here to to what's actually in the world. Trying to figure it out is nearly impossible, but we can certainly engage with it in

a real and meaningful way. Well, you went deeper with it than I did. Thank you. One of your favorite quotes I've ever seen of years, and I won't get it right, but it's has something to say, something along the lines of line on the floor and listening to loud rock and roll maybe the only therapy you need and usually is. And you know, my recommendation is to

listen to UM Jim Morrison's American Prayer. That was like the first time I just use music as they're like just like in the dark and he's in a studio totally wasted, just reciting his poetry UM shortly before he died, and then the remaining doors the band it took those tracks and put it to music. Anyway you gotta do it. Yeah, Well, my partner Chris here is giving you the thumbs up sign for that one for sure, for sure. So yeah, no, I'm I am a strong believer that music is definitely

healing in so many different ways. I would be lost without it. I think, yeah, me too, me too. You call something the sacred paradox, and you say transformation begins with the radical acceptance of what is, yes, and you know what that is some of Christian Marty's thinking and and mine. I'll give myself a little bit of credit for that, where you can't really see something until you

fully accept it. And I think what a lot of us do to try and get out of pain, like completely understandable response to pay is we go into nile that it's not happening, like this job doesn't suck, this marriage isn't shitty, and we just keep trucking along. Or we go into solution mode of you know, we see that something stucking, like how are we going to get out of this? How can I come up with the money. I don't see a way through. We can't solve it.

Just stop, just stop and accept that it's happening as awful as whatever it is is. And then usually with that presence and that absence of being frantic. Then you can take a really clear next step you can make you know the next right decision. As Oprah puts it, that's my favorite favorite of hers. Right now the next

or the next best decision. And it's really hard to do because you have to suspend wanting to fix it and you have to just be in it, not knowing how you're going to get out of it, Like you know, this marriage is brutal. Pause and then you figure out what you're gonna do about it. Yeah, I love that

that Oprah phrase. I've been in in twelve Step Recovery, and I think the phrase I heard was very early on was just do the next right thing, And that was so helpful in just like one foot in front of the other, what's the next right thing to do right now? And you keep doing enough of those and you end up with good things happening. Also in the book, you talk about painting over pain with premature positivity and short circuiting the healing process, which is what you were

just talking about. And you've got a phrase that I love. I think a lot of people have heard the phrase spiritual bypass, but you've got a got a great phrase where you talk about putting spiritual sweetener on it, well, spiritual bypassing. You know, I hope, I hope that this concept like really rises to the front of the self help space. I mean, this is really what the White Hot Shooth book is about. It's things like something negative

happened to me, the shitty thing went down. But you know what, I'm so grateful that has happened, because I should be grateful. Shouldn't be grateful. That's a spiritual New Age enlightened thing to do. And I learned so much from this. Oh that may be true, but before we get there, it would be a really good idea if we felt maybe angry, if we felt disappointed, despair, um, piste off, you know, just all of those really human,

justifiable things, because that's what's real. And when we skip over those real human emotions and then move straight to the you know, the more quote unquote spiritual approach, that stuff just festers. And what happens is, you know, the same person who piste you off a year ago, you know, a year after you've been repressing it. Then you have some fantastic passive, aggressive interaction with them, and they're just like,

where is this coming from? And you realize you've actually secretly been holding your your grudge against them for quite a long time, or it comes out in other ways. I mean, what's repressed, we'll find a way to sneak out. Also, if we're not feeling our anger, it disables us from creating justice and creating change. It's like, there's a lot of reasons to be very angry about things that are happening in our political system, and that anger is clarifying.

That anger, you know, helps you stand up straight and use your voice and create change. And there are many occasions where it's just not the time to say, well, you know, this is karma unfolding. We're all learning something that's that's bullshit passivity. H I agree with you that what we repress ends up showing up. And it's funny you were mentioning anger and passive aggressiveness, and I was

just thinking about that earlier today. I was looking at a situation and in some of the other work that I do, and I was like, I'm being passive aggressive to that person because I've not said what I'm frustrated about. And it was I was all of a sudden like, oh yeah, and that's not that's not a good that's not being a good leader. Anger is the one that I struggled with. I've gotten pretty good at being sad and allowing sadness to occur and and flow through me

and not afraid of that. But I think anger is the one for me. How about you? Is there one that you still are more inclined to run from? That's a great question. I think mine is disappointment. And instead of just like being with the disappointment, like I got let down, I let myself down. That's that's where I'll spiritual bypassing on just be like, well, everybody's trying their best and I'm so capable. I can do it. I'll

take care of it. And I shouldn't have asked for that much or I should have tried harder, and it's really not cool as a leader. I mean, just to like get deeper into this. For me, it's a personality thing. It's an angiogram thing, So like on the innogram, I'm for you don't even need to know how the anagram works. But what I'll tell you is that my weakness is that I'll just do it myself. It's actually not a strength.

And so when I'm disappointed. That's the default I go into, I'll just do it myself, and that that's not it's not cool because then I get well, I get overworked, and it also doesn't allow people to rise to to improve rise to the occasion. Then this is part of the spiritual bypass. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings as much of a take no ship kind of person that I am, and just like, well, you know, and I'm way better, way better in the last two years

at it than I used to be. I used to let things just go completely, and now I'm just like, you know what, Sorry, you gotta redo it. Yep. Well, I'm in nine on the indiogram, so I think that's peacemaker. So I wrestled with the same same challenge and I get better at it when I'm really focused on it. And I guess this goes back to what I was

saying earlier. I get I focus on it, I get better, and then I sort of slide back into my old habits again, and and then I, like I was saying today, I was realizing, like, Okay, I need to re engage with this as be more conscious about what I'm doing here. Because listen, you nines would rut, you would do anything other than express anger. You might, you might evolved at the point whe're like, it's I'm okay feeling it, but to actually confront somebody, it's really I feel your pain.

I have a friend, one of my best friends, is in nine, and I'm just like, you know, sweetheart, you just tell me, tell me what you would tell him. She's like God, and she gets it. I'm like, okay, now, just give him ten percent of that and you will be making progress forward. Yet, Chris just said, should I send her a picture of the black eye I gave him last week? As if I got mad enough to hit him? No that I can't imagine what he could possibly ever do that would provoke me to to that.

But yeah, and is a nine. As a peacemaker. I keep trying to remind myself that not saying what's going on and just stuffing it is not making peace. It seems like it, but in a deeper sense, it's just not. And and I've learned that often enough in life that you'd think i'd have it by now, but I keep learning it. Yeah. Well, I mean, we're all just it's all a big repeat, but you know one thing that might be helpful. Can I just give you some therapy

for a second, please. It's more creative to speak it. I mean, I think you can totally identify, like you want to create your reality. You want to be an intentional, a deliberate creator. And if you can express your anger, you're you're you're making an awesome life. You're creating more precisely, Yeah, yeah, I think that is is great feedback a lot of

what I wrestle with. And you had a line in your book about this, which was, you know, if your heart is just genuinely you're sort of that easy going and good natured um, that's great versus if you're repressing all that stuff or you're not saying all that stuff because if you're afraid or you don't want to cause conflict.

And and I sometimes don't know that I can tell, right because I am fairly laid back about stuff, like I'm kind of like, okay, whatever, But I don't know how much of that is sort of the unconscious habit over all these years of being that way. And so I'm really trying to look more closely at like what's going on underneath the surface. My initial reaction is to say, Oh, everything's fine, but what's really happening underneath that? And and recognize.

And I usually can tell, like I said, because I start to become slightly passive aggressive without really even knowing it. I just noticed that I'm irritated with the person, and then I'm like, why am I irritated with the person? I'm like, oh, because that thing that they did that I didn't think mattered two weeks ago, you know, blah blah blah. So for me, my body always knows when I'm angry. I mean, there's lots of reasons I could get angry, but when I'm in that mode of like, okay,

that's healthy. But if I feel that fire and I don't express it somehow, then I pay I pay for it. Yep. Well, it's that idea of how for most of us are best trait can also be our biggest weakness if we don't deal with it. Right. So, another idea that you had in the book, and I really liked it, was you said that the more you can expose yourself to conflicting dogmas, the better off you are. And that seems to be something that a lot of people in the world today are simply not willing to do um is

to explore anyone else's perspective on things. So why does that help us? Because I think we do have more common than we have differences, and when we realize that, there's significantly less conflict, because that's how you become a more loving person. Being able to entertain other perspectives helps I mean, it helps you see what you're dealing. Was like, it's good to know who else is on the planet and to know, you know, the extent of there's a lot of density, and there's a lot of darkness, and

there's a lot of hatred. It's good to know that. And also to know that the light and the love and the humanity that is living next door to you and teaching your kids um and and running your communities. So there's that, There's just like general awareness and just expand expanding your perspective. Expansion is always better than constriction.

I think the healing is there in that dialogue. I've been talking a bit about thinking a lot about this of the last you know, the summer, basically the last couple of months. I don't know when this is going to air, but you know, with a lot of strife that's happening in terms of racism and immigration, and I mean mostly in the US, but we certainly have a

problems in Canada as well. And I'm thinking about what would the effect be if I had some one on one conversations with people who identified as being racist, and what would happen if we had town hall meetings and really sought to understand each other. And I think we'd find out that a lot of people who um spew

hatred are deeply wounded. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be justice, doesn't doesn't astify it at all, right, but it helps us understand because what I'm seeing is, you know, I'm not quite comfortable with the kind of protesting that's happening right now. Like I'm about to go to the Women's March, I'm not going to be comfortable marching and screaming. It's about who I am. So my way of protesting is, well,

it's more peaceful. Yeah, I agree. I am very concerned about a lot of the politics that we see and what's happening. I'm almost equally as concerned by how we are treating each other. Um. You you reference Parker J. Palmer in your book, and he's got so many wise things to stay on this topic that that I just think he's he's got so many great ideas. Yeah, he's brilliant and he I mean, I mean talk about somebody

who's face they're suffering. He's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, Well, Danielle, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. The book, as I said, was called hot Truth, and I really enjoyed reading it. I like reading all of your stuff, and I appreciate you being willing to come on yet another time. Eric. Thank you for being so thorough and for really I have to say, you know, I've done a lot of I've had a lot of conversations about this book, and you really got to subtle stuff.

So this was like a total pleasure. I'm really grateful. Thank you, Thank you, take care to okay bye. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a donation to the one you Feed podcast. Head over to one you Feed dot net slash support