Cory Allen on Mindfulness and Understanding Identity

of the thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true, and yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative to make a life worth living.

This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Corey Allen, a writer, musician, and the creator of the podcast The Astral Hustle. He focuses on how to live better with leading experts in mindfulness, neuroscience, and philosophy. Eric and Corey have spoken before about his book Now Is the Way, but on this episode, they just freely talk

about whatever they want. Hi, Corey, Welcome to the show. Hi Eric, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be on again. Yeah, it is wonderful to have you on. Every time you and I talk, I just love it and I always find we could just talk forever. So I thought, let's just have another time where we get together and talk. And I actually, in comparison to the normal amount of prep I do for an interview, I did way way less this time. So we're going

to see how that goes. Yeah, it's going to go well. Yeah, I actually think it will. There is a lot to be said for just kind of coming in and seeing where things lead us. Although I do have some key talking points, but we always start with the parable, and you're gonna have to answer it again. So in the parable, there's a grandparent talking with a grandchild. Says in life, there's two wolves inside of us that are always at battle.

One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the ranchild stops and thinks about it for a second, looks up at their grandparents says, well, which one wins? The grandparents says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the work that

you do. Yeah. So I look at that as a direct translation to the power of mindfulness, because one of the most useful elements of understanding the inner landscape and putting a spaciousness in your life through meditation and just slowing down in general, allows you to be more aware of not only the thoughts that are arising in your mind,

but also the impulses. That's a huge part of you know, self development is recognizing those either conditioned or unexamined, arising impulses and then in the moment, having half of your attention trained on your experience and half of your attention trained on your inner dialogue, and realizing that those arising thoughts,

ideas impulses, those are all just information. It's all just like sense, information that's flowing through the mind, and those impulses aren't things you have to do, right, They're just kind of suggestions based off of your reactions or you know, how you're feeling at the moment, or your past experiences

and so forth. And so I think about these two wolves as two polarities of the potential arising impulses from the mind, and using the discipline of the practice of meditation and mindfulness allows you to actually get out from in front of those two wolves. Because if you think about it in terms of this analogy, it's as if we are human and these wolves are behind us, and almost has this sense of urgency or fear or something like that we have to deal with. Okay, I have

some meat, maybe I'm the meat. Which one am I going to feed to this wolf? You know? And how much of me am I going to feed to it? You know? But instead through looking at it in terms of a more floodlight point of view as opposed to a flashlight point of view, you raise up and now you're behind the wolves and the wolves are in front of you, and you realize these wolves are just arising suggestions, just impulse is and I am not my thoughts, I'm

not even these wolves. I'm none of that stuff. What I am is which of these impulses and these thoughts that are coming to mind that I choose to turn into action. And so that's how I think about it. It's like once you liberate yourself out of the fear and the anxiety of being face to face with two wolves through of course, calming the body, calming the mind through meditation, giving your mind enough time to de noise and to sort of reset so that you're not trapped

in the ecosystem of your thoughts. Rather you become the an observer of your thoughts, and there's that spaciousness. Then you realize, oh, now it's simply a matter of taste. Now it's simply a matter of decision making of which one of these impulses do I want to choose in

the moment to turn into action. And that can be big decisions, that can be things you say in passing conversations, that can be simply listening in moments you know, whatever it might be, Because that, in truth is really what creates action in reality and the objective world and what makes who you are. That's awesome. I often think that the thing meditation is most done for me when people are like, what is the biggest benefit meditation has given you.

I've just brought up the old Victor Frankel line. You know, there's a space between stimulus and response, and I feel like meditation has increased the size of that space for me. Right, It's just given me more space between stimulus and response, and which I can sort of do everything you just so eloquently said, which is kind of look around and go, oh, yeah, here's the thoughts, here's the emotions, here's the bodily sensations, here's the impulses or urges that are arising out of that.

I can deconstruct that a little bit and then go, okay, what's the wise response here? Yeah, totally, And I mean it's one of those things where you also don't even really recognize that that's happening, and that you're caught in the momentum of ultimately like just the causality of your life.

Until we recognize this, we're all just reacting, right. So we're just we're kind of panicked because we are in the state of dealing with the chaos of reality and just the logistics of being like a weird organism on

a weird planet. And so there's so many intersections. It's such a moving target in every direction that we're trying to deal with all this, and so we're caught up in this momentum of just sort of reacting to this situation, reacting to this situation, getting blindsided by an emotion, having that overtake us, mistaking our emotion or our thought for who we are, you know, being like, oh god, you know, I had this negative thought and I was like rude

to this person. Now I'm terrible, I'm this root. You know, we get all hung up in this, and it takes being able to recognize that and take a step back and to get out of that causal momentum of reaction and start to see the homeless. Second, I actually can choose who and how I want to be in the present as opposed to literally just like I think about

like almost like catching a flu. In this way, it's like if you were twelve and someone or something happened to you know, from your parents, sir, in social situation or whatever, and it had this really negative imprint that created this defensiveness or this vulnerability or whatever, and you go through the rest of your life reacting to that situation defensively, either through aggression or whatever it is to

kind of keep people back or protect yourself. You caught like an illness, right, and it's like by recognizing that you're sick, you can then heal yourself and then you don't have that illness anymore. I think it very much works like that. So given that I'm gonna try and ask a question that I don't even fully know how to articulate. I know what I'm trying to ask, but asking it is a little bit more challenging. We are, in essence, just a soup of causes and conditions, right,

That's what it is to be a human being. Right. Every experience I've had in the past has altered me in some way, my genetics, what I ate today, the air I'm breathing, right, it's all this incalculable recipe. Right. So we have a tendency to look back and go, all right, here was this bad experience that formed me, and that's not me. I want to slough that, all right. And here's another bad experience that happened and that's not me,

and we want to slough it off. But then we also, at the same time talk about and I think wisely talk about here what my values are. Here's what's important to me. But that value and importance has also been shaped by countless uncalculable back things. So my question to you is, how do you think about what to keep and what to discard from the past, and how do you know what's actually quote unquote you. I love that

question and it invites a deep answer, you know. And really what you're getting at is the impermanence of self, you know. And if you do go deep enough into meditation or whatever practice that you can zoom out enough from your identity and being ultimately attached to the notion

of your identity, you can see. I guess I should explain that a little bit is like all of that stuff, the concepts that we place on all the information that's coming through our nervous system our entire life are just concepts. And so even like for example, you know, you feel something through your hands, you smell something, you see something, the information that's moving through your nervous system arising to the stage of consciousness is just raw data. But then

based on our cultural heritage and etcetera, etcetera cetera. At the time we're born, all this stuff, we place these concepts on those sensations that are really only relative to us in a lot of ways, and that generates an

aspect of our subjective perception. But it gets really deep is whenever you back up a little bit and you realize, like, oh wait a second, my entire identity is that, like everything that I think who I am and all this stuff and who I should be in the entire narrative of our self aware consciousness, it's just one big wave of data that we've applied all these symbols and all this meaning and all these signs too, that truly have come out of pretty much nowhere. It's just happenstance, you know,

of our experience. And so whenever you can sit back and really begin to see the structure of your identity, it becomes really hilarious to me. Anyway, you know, getting hung up into something like even any of the three poisons is something like desiring something or thinking you have to go do this, and it's very important work some way in life that you're being or something you're hung up on. You're like, who is the one that's hung up? Like? Who is this person that's hung up on that thing?

I'm watching this kind of tapestry of identity that's been constructed at me over time, and I mistook it for who I am, But really I'm the one behind that, just observing that character and the actor that's playing the role of this identity through time. Right. And so whenever you see that and begin to really accept that, your question of like, well, you know, what are these things, even the good values have come to me, Well, those are also just as conditioned and separate from you as

the bad things. So the move is, I think to have that insight, you also traditionally kind of must have an increase in awareness and self awareness through that process, because they're just sort of two parts of the same mechanism. And in that you can begin to realize that your perception is not, of course, some vantage point through which

the true nature of reality can be seen. And so you take this into account while following you know, your intuition, your instinct about what feels right, like what is wholesome? How can I be kind? And how can I be patient and understanding and be compassionate? This is like a sidebar to you know, applying symbols to things like people mistake compassion for an identity like you see so many people in the mindfulness meditation community thing, I am a

compassionate person. It's like, no, No, compassion isn't a trait. Compassion is a point of view. It's a way through which you see the world and look for opportunity. Is to be compassionate, not something that you call yourself. All I am compassionate. You know, it doesn't do anything when you just call yourself compassionate. But what does do something is actually acting that way in life. And so I

kind of look at it like that. So it's like, once you recognize the game is of the self is just this impermanent, ever changing, nonstable, really you know, confused collection of data and symbols, then you can go, all right, well, I'm gonna just be as present as possible, and I'm going to truly listen to what feels good, what feels right, and then try and use the spaciousness of mind and the groundedness and the calmness that comes from exploring in a landscape to then do the best I can in

this world. And that's the other thing is that like our intuition or instinct, whatever you want to call it, that's all we have at the end of the day. But it's not right all the time, but we have to just go with it. And by understanding it's not always right and just doing our best, I think that we can get a bit further down the road. I've been working with how to think about and talk about this, and I do think at the ultimate edge of reality, right,

what we call self is completely non personal. There's no trace of Eric in it. That's just my personal belief right. So that is one view. But then as you move back into the relative world, right, as you move back into all right, I am a person who has been influenced by all sorts of different things. Now I start to take on sort of, you know, for lack of a better word, of psychological or a personal self. And that personal self can be more or less I like

the word you used, wholesome or healthy, you know. And so there's that sort of dual development. Layer one. It's sort of getting rid of that furthest out for me, stuff, the surface perceptions that people put on me, comparing myself to others, trying to live in a culture that I may not agree with the values. I move back a step and now what's the most psychologically and I use

that word sort of loosely psychologically or personal self. What's the best version of that that I can create based out of everything that's happened to me and what I think? And then ultimately there's one step sort of back from that, which is that witness perspective or that true sort of dissolving into you know, I like to call it the unity of self. Yeah, that's a good way to describe it.

That sounds kind of contradictory what you're saying and what I'm saying, and how we're agreeing on that, and it is in some ways, but that's because all things in nature are not black and white. Everything is a multitude of polarities, overlapping in ways that are often inconvenient, in ways that people have a hard time squaring and accepting

because we look for an answer. But what's funny about humans is that we look for an answer and then we'll look for another answer, like, Okay, now I feel comfortable because I have my two answers, even when those two answers are contradictory, But it goes unexamined because that doesn't serve the narrative of mine. Whenever I was talking to Dan Pink, on my podcast. He had one of the best bits I might have shared this with you, one of the best like antidotes I just love of

that's burned in my brain. He mentioned he was talking to this group of people and they all had the ability to kind of vote or something. It was like at at a keynote speech or something, and so we asked the audience, who here believes in free will? And of the audience raise their hand or whatever, and they said, okay, now, who here thinks everything happens for a reason? And you know, seventy of the people raise their hand. That's like, do

we see a problem there? Right? But but it's like, that's just this such a human thing is that we allow ourselves these two quote unquote truths to facilitate the issue. And the problem that we're talking about right now is that there's a contradiction in that. But it's because as a creature, humans have a strange thing we have to deal with, because we have an ability to get so spectral lee meta in this way and see ourselves from this huge distant point of view if you put in

the practice to do that. But at the same time, no matter how much you do that, no matter how far you go, you're still trapped and an animal body. Yeah, exactly. Part of that main frame has like okay, I have to deal with like you can have the coolest, most amazing computer program on your computer, but you still have to have, you know, an operating system. You know, we have to have OSX or else none of the other cool stuff works. And the operating system is, as you mentioned,

like our our psychological profile. And we need that because we have to have an ego to continue on because at the end of the day, we're really just this hotel for our DNA, and that we need the ego to believe that we have enough value to continue going so that we'll know repropagate or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I want to change directions here because, as you were saying, I jumped into the deep end of the pool there,

but I couldn't resist. I want to talk about something that I just saw it on your social media recently, but I loved this line you said, dreaming of material wealth is a dream of being free from design buyers. And you go on to sort of say like, uh no,

that's not gonna work. Let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah, that's one of my favorite things that clicked on me is like, because our culture is so deeply based on commerce and marketing and capitalism and consumerism, Like what are we like, We're consumers that are just marketed to from birth, like before birth, but really before birth there's all this

stuff for baby while you're still in the womb. It's like the second you step out of your mom into you know, meat space, all the marketers are ready to hit you with all the stuff that you know, they get dialed in algorithmically to serve you and leverage you. And really what happens is that we're told, particularly in America and in the Western world, but especially America, because one of the great superpowers of our country is making

things famous, you know, that feeds into it. And so there's like a celebrity culture and a marketing capitalist culture where it's like, if you don't have this, then you aren't successful, right if you if you don't have this thing, this trade, this quality, this material object, whatever it is, then you aren't successful. And look at this famous person and look how happy they are, and look that they're they're driving that car or they're holding this stupid cologne

or whatever it is. So we grow up in that ecosystem, and like women who are marketed to so intensely with I mean god, like the body stuff and the makeup in that whole world, that whole industry is so brutal, and it's like I can't imagine growing up having to deal with being told like, hey, you're not pretty enough, and so you need to have all these things to

look better. I mean, it's really treacherous. So we grow up feeling really empty, like we're missing something, and so we get focused on this idea that hey, I can not only have that feeling go away, but I can crush it and be respected by everyone and whatever by having a giant house or like a lot of cars or owning an island or whatever it is. But that's kind of where people stop thinking about it in the most time. And it's because obtaining those things is practic

really impossible. Like the people who have a mansion or ten cars or whatever, like just crazy luxury wealth. It's so few that, like you know, people don't ever achieve that. So it creates a lot of suffering and people don't have the space or the realization to actually get there and realize like, wait a second, this isn't the answer to how I'm feeling. And so if we unzip that whole process and pull some stuff out of the bag and dial down into it, what is it that we're

really looking for? Because you know, at the end of the day, if you have a bunch of luxurious items or whatever, it is, like that doesn't make you happy, Like, it's not really the thing you're going for. And so what we're looking for is that to have that feeling, the pulling, the tearing, and the suffering of not feeling whole be gone. And so that's really what the material pull is cloaked in. And so it's great if you can recognize the fact that hold on a second, like,

it's not that I want all this stuff. I just don't want to be wanting all this stuff. Like another one of my Instagram posts was the thing you want is to want nothing. That's really the end of the story. It's like, because then you're tapping back into instead of an intrinsic type of value, you're looking inward and you're saying, like, Okay, what is my life like? Just you have to reframe a little bit. So first off, you're awake, you pulled off the greatest magic trick of all time. You don't

owe the world or anyone anything. You came into existence. Take a moment to realize how insane that is. It's preposterous, Like you were nothing and now you're a conscious being. You did it. Congratulations. You don't need to do anything else. That's an amazing trick, right. The fact that you exist is enough your whole by the fact that you were here.

And if you can sit without a little bit and start to just appreciate the fact that you get to be here, you get to have these experiences and have friends and you know, eat food and just enjoy the crazy like sensuality of being, just like sitting in feeling air on your skin is like, you know, it's intoxicating

if you're present enough with it. And so recognizing that space and that idea helps you get free of that suffering and tune into the gratitude and really just the bizarre abundance of magic that it is to purely exist at all. Yeah, so much of that rings really true. That what we want is to not want. I think there's a couple of reasons why this is so hard. One is that if things like a new car or a new house or a hit of heroin never worked at all, It would be an easy illusion to see through.

You'd be like that, just dozone work right? Like okay, I try to no good right, but that stuff usually temporarily works to go okay, scratch that itch. Problem is the itch comes right back. You know what's interesting, I

just thought of this yesterday. Maybe I sort of subconsciously had these things connected in my mind, but I tied them up in my mind just yesterday, which was we listen to evolutionary psychology, they say you're wired to be unsatisfied because a satisfied creature doesn't survive, right, It doesn't seek partners, it doesn't seek food. It's just as like, hey, I'm laying in the field. Everything's cool. So we're not capable on some level of satisfaction in the animal sense.

And it occurred to me like that's sort of essentially part of what you know, Buddha's first noble truth to me to some degree. First and second right, like, which is dissatisfaction is imminent for you, you know, And so I think it's interesting to think about that through in some ways, the Buddha is diagnosing the human condition, which

is that we are designed to continue to want. Yeah, and it's a brutal one too, because we get hit from both sides, because we're designed to never feel satisfied, as you said, But at the same time, we're also designed to seek the path of least resistance because we're you know, we're an animal that's trying to conserve energy all the time. And so it's like, well, what are

you supposed to do with that? So how do you deal with that pole of that feeling of not feeling satisfied and just that general animal hunger of feeling like you have to keep moving, you have to keep doing this stuff. How do you stay grounded? Well, it's interesting because I'm in the midst of it right now. We are planning a trip and I'm going to go to Europe for a month in June. I've never been. I've never even contemplated taking anything like a month off work.

Don't worry, listeners, there will be up two podcast episodes a week. I'm working hard now. I've never contemplated taking that much time off. So now we're looking at where we're going to go, and we're booking hotels, and I feel it. I feel the I want, I want, I want, and I also see right through the other end of it, and I'm like, and then I'm going to come home, right,

it's gonna end. So I think for me, it seems like the best I can do is to at least try as often as I can to see through the illusion and go, yeah, of course I want to stay in that nice hotel in that beautiful town in Europe. Like, I want that. And you know what if I got that, Like if somebody was like, Eric, not only do you get to stay in this hotel tonight, but we have

just gifted you this hotel, you are the lucky winner. Right, I'd be over the moon for a week, two weeks, a month, I don't know how long, but eventually that hotel would just become my normal and I would be back to wanting the next thing, which is what you're getting at in your post about material wealth. Right, nothing stops the wanting process, and so as long as we think that we can permanently satiate it. For me, I put way too much stock in the thing, you know,

used to be a relationship. If I could just get that relationship, you know, and now I sort of see through it at least. It's not that I don't fall into the spell a little bit. It's not that I don't feel to use your point or elier these impulses that come up in various directions, But I try my best to keep reminding myself, like, lasting happiness isn't there. Yeah, there's some enjoyment, there's some pleasure, but lasting happiness it's not coming via that route. There's this other route that

I've been nurturing that I need to continue to nurture. Yeah. There's a fun test that listeners can do on this is that if you think back to ten years ago and something that you really wanted, it was just like you were burning inside, you know, and it changed the way that you triangulated your reality. You were talking to this person because it could get you to talk to this person, and somehow that was going to lead to

hopefully you getting this thing. You know, you chose to make this action because you knew like if I can do this and this and this, I can sequence this and I'll be able to achieve this thing I'm desiring. And you get really tense and wrapped up in it and it becomes a thing, and then whether you got it or not. You can look at it now and think like, oh, well that was silly, Like I didn't really do anything for me. It just made me maybe even like manipulate people or say something that you're like,

you change my behavior in a negative way. And I was tense and suffering the whole time and like kind of feverish with hunger for this thing. It wasn't really pretty. And it's so goofy to think back that I was so worked up over getting you know, like limited edition sneakers or what do you whatever it was, or a

new car or the job. And then now you can think, oh, that was funny, like what I've grown so much, and now do that with whatever you're wanting right now, and you can see just as how silly it is and how illusory it is, because it really is, at the end of the day, just a passing illusion. It's this thing that the mind teas up for a while until it gets exhausted. It's really kind of like chewing gum for the ego in some ways, just to keep you busy,

you know. But I think that to me, if you, if you step back a few steps, and I mean what I do anyways, I stepped back a few steps, and everything that comes through, whether it's good things, bad things, whatever, I am really just not detached. But I don't get involved with the things. So of course I like saying in a nice hotel, but I don't go thinking like, all right, I'm a guy that gets to stay in a nice hotel. I just think, oh, I'm a guy.

There's a nice hotel. I'm going to go into it, and then let's enjoy it as much as possible while we're here, and really enjoy it. But at no point is there a self identification through that process. And it's sort of like a zen thing of like, you know, good things in life happened, bad things in life happened. It's like no, no, no, things are just happening. The perspective through which you engage with those things is what dictates your reality and your experience and ultimately your levels

of attachment. And so even yeah, these beautiful things that we can't experience and there's nothing wrong. I mean, that's one of the other hang ups. I think people who are trying to go inward in this way often um struggle with is they think, like, I'm terrible for wanting a nice car. It's like, no, you're not. There's nothing wrong with that, And a nice car is a beautiful achievement of engineering, Like it's it's a great you know,

it's a great thing. But if it changes your behavior you're and whether you're in it, if it makes you feel arrogant or like better than everyone else, then you have a problem. But if you're driving that nice car just like it was a Toyota or whatever, then you're all good because you're not mistaken and applying the concept of the thing to your identity. You're just a identity engaging with an experience. And that's how I anyways stay

free from that stuff. It feels almost like we're talking about two levels of suffering that we can have around these things. One is the one you just hit on, which is very much identity based. Right. It's if I had enough money, then I would be good enough. If I had that car, then I would be respected. I would be the kind of person who owns that car. There, so there's an identity element that's wrapped up in that. I think that's very real, at least for me personally.

You know, I always don't want to overstate things, but for me personally, I think a combination of age and several somewhat shattering spiritual experiences have dropped a fair amount of that identity game, right Like that I feel less tied to For me, it seems to remain more around the basic mechanism, the wanting process, you know, just the wanting to be comfortable, the wanting to be happy, the wanting to feel differently than I do, not because of

who I am, or maybe they're connected in a deeper way, but it seems like those two different ways sometimes for me that I have to approach things. Can I shake

off the identity apart? And then there's the other part, which is sort of like a creature that's optimizing for pleasure, right Yeah, And that aspect of it that you're talking about, I think that stepping back and observing the arising bodily impulse is not only a great way to deal with it, but it becomes hilarious to me because it just becomes absurd. You can use all plethora of things to test this and play with this with yourself, but hunger is a

great one. What we're getting down to is like the mammalian brain, you know, signature, the vapor rising off the mammalian brain that's affecting, you know, the higher higher intelligence. If you kind of realign that higher intelligence to observe the vapor rising from the mammalian animal brain, then it becomes sort of strange and funny. And you see how that constant urging of want is just another impulse and just another signal which you can choose to just really

like let go of. And I think, to me, like curiosity is a really helpful way to like play those games. So I think maybe one year ago, two years ago in Austin, there was a period where what they were calling the snow apocalypse. You know, Texas is not set up for snow, and it snowed in an insane amount during COVID lockdown, and everyone lost their power and water for like a week. People were freezing and they didn't

have no food and it was brutal. We had a little bit of food, but not any water, and so we were sitting around and didn't know how long this is gonna go. And I just thought, I'm gonna just like instead of you know, worrying about this too much. There's really not much I can do at this point, and there's no reason to panic. Instead, this will be a fun test to see what hunger really is about, Like what is that animal creature impulse to want to eat?

And I'm not, of course belittling anyone who's starving or trying to denigrate that in any way, but I mean just as something that arose in my own life where I was like, huh, let's see like what hunger is. And I just sort of like watching the feeling of hunger in that way and observing it and then just observing how it was changing my perception, how it's changing, like the way that I was reacting, and like my

levels of patients, my energy levels and all that. But after a while, just you know, it became really funny and just sort of a silly thing, like it lost its teeth to me, you know, and it was a good way to deal with it. And so I kind of used that little experience moving forward for some of those similar things where it's like it feels like it has more power of you because it's coming from a deeper, older part of the mind. But really it's just the

same as the identity issue. It's just coming from the bottoms of the top. Yeah, that's a great way to say it, it is coming from the bottom instead of the top. And it's so interesting though, because when you think about what we are, I use the analogy of soup earlier, or incalculable recipe. Right, A big part of that soup and incalculable recipe are hormones and neurotransmitters and all these things that really control to a certain extent our experience. And I often like to think about how

free will? You brought that up earlier. Do we have free will? Right? Without going into the deep philosophical sense of it doesn't exist, Let's just assume it does exist to some degree. Do all humans have the same degree

of it? You know? So, for example, free will when it comes to not eating that piece of chocolate cake over there, you can take me and five other people, and depending on the biological makeup of those five people, depending on hormone levels, but depending on a variety of different things, depending on blood sugar levels, a whole bunch

of different things. It may be relatively easy for me to look at that piece of chocolate cake and be like, no, no big deal, whereas it might be like a Jesus on the cross moment for someone else to walk away from that piece of chocolate cake, right, And so I find it really interesting to think about our ability to work with impulses that are often mediated by things that feel beyond control. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean it's something I've thought about

a lot. And the idea of determinism is very tasty, you know, to keep with the food, and it's very tasty, like it seems it seems so plausible, and I think

it is. It does seem to be, and just to sort of give a super shortcut to determinism for it's not familiar and basically saying that we have no free will because everything in the universe is causally created, so like essentially there was the Big Bang, and then that created planets, and then over time it created some speaking of soup, there's a little you know, protein soup of bacteria and the oceans, and then some little fish and so forth, and then it goes up until sapiens being created.

And then all of the chance, inheritance of action from your parents and everything that you know pushes you then dictates the options that you can have and that you can make because you're just this motion of all of the things that happened before you, and you're not really able to make any other choice because everything has been kind of determined by what's happening before you. It's simple causality, and I do think that's one element of it, because

just on a physics level, that checks out right, does it? Though? My question about that is doesn't quantum physics sort of throw that whole thing off by saying, hey, what's going to happen here is a probability not a made decision? Yeah? Sure, And it was about to say, was that I have not you know, the person to say so it definitely physics is definitely work out on that. But a person who's an expert in nothing and it has no certification

whatsoever and didn't go to college and no expertise. But it seems as though that linear train of thought resolves, you know, and makes sense. However, again, back to what we're talking about previously, is that that's a very human thing to be like, Okay, this one answer and this one way of going that's it's like, well, no, it's it's a couple of things that are all happening at once, and you have to kind of step out and peel back your perception a little bit to hold those two

things at the same time. And I love your example of people have different or varying degrees of free will because it fits right into like this thing that I've thought about for a long time is it's kind of like compatible ism in a sense, but it's more of like, we don't have free will per se. However, inside the ecosystem of our own mind, because of our subjectivity, we're

able to choose our choices. So on the palate of your own perceptual identity and awareness and nervous system, plus the inheritance of your past, you then have the freedom and the will to choose the very small switch bank of choices that you're able to think of were able to muster at that moment. But it doesn't mean that in other areas you are acting without realizing it, because

we certainly all are doing that constantly totally. But at the same time, we have a little bit of elbow room, a little bit of wiggliness where it seems as though we're able to choose a variety of options in certain situations. Yeah, I think to say that our choices are certainly limited by so many factors. I mean, if somebody's listening to this in you know, Mumbai, they have different set of choices about what they're going to do with their afternoon than I do in Columbus. Like it's just the way

it is, whether they're better or worse. Like I couldn't say right, they're just different. But I do think this question of the ability to make choices, and I think our amount of free will is different on different things. It's so interesting for me because I know at one point, like to choose not to take a drink. For me, ultimately, yes, it was my choice. I I was the one who picked up a drink and either did or didn't at

the end of the day, that's where it ends. And it felt so hard then so hard, and now it's so easy, right, same person, same thing. But the level to me like now it's it feels like an easy choice. Then it felt like being torn apart inside choice. What do you think is a way that people move from those impulses that them up that feels so strong that we almost despite our best intentions, give in to them.

And we could be talking about hard core adiction or or even not right on a spectrum, but where the impulses are really strong, and I find it hard to just let them go. Versus the other hand, what you're describing is is a much different thing where I'm like, I'm observing what could be a pretty strong impulse like hunger. I've got a lot of space around it. What's the path do you think from one end of that to the other. I think the hugest thing is not being overwhelmed.

So the person who is out of control of their decision making is overwhelmed, like they have no spaciousness of mind. The tension and the stress and often the emotional stress that they're feeling because of generally something traumatic that happens to them is so heavy and they feel so limited in their options that it's like they're in grid luck

traffic times twenty. It's too much, And so whenever the imp luso arises, it's like, Hey, this thing, I'm going to accept it because one, I don't have the space or the emotional energy to really be thoughtful about it. But two, I'm so compacted and I'm so overwhelmed that anything is worth having a break from that. I just want to have a break from this feeling, you know, And that's why drugs or alcohol or sex or whatever, pick your your pleasure or you know, careerism, you know whatever.

There's so many different forms of it. Social media definitely one. But it's like it's something that we feel overwhelmed with negative emotion and with you know, often intellectual energy, and we are stuck between a rock and heart place because we for whatever reason aren't ready or don't have the toolkit to look at where our sufferings come from and to begin to integrate and work with that, you know, psychological pain, and we feel like we can't move forward

because everything is too tense and two dense. So what we want to do is basically just nomb out and just get out of that somehow and be distracted from what we're feeling. But of course you can only stay distracted for so long and wherever you come back to it, well, hey,

nothing has changed, You're still there. It's one of the things that people experience with something like pain killers or anti anxiety meds, where of course, you know, in low doses at reasonable times, those can be useful for people with you know, certain chemical imbalances, but if you depend on them and you're using them every day, recreationally. That river of emotion doesn't just go into the ether. You're

just putting up a damn you know. And that's why, you know, whenever you stop taking them, all that floods back out and like, O God, this is terrible, I'm gonna take them again, and it creates a real issue. You know. The way to having that spaciousness is, of course, you know, the therapeutic approach of having some you know, some type of talk therapy to begin to open those

doors and let out some of that emotional pressure. And also, of course I would recommend your meditation or mindfulness practice to begin to calm the body down because most people, especially in this you know, the era of information, we're scared. We're like, we're in a constant state of anxiety because there's so many things to deal with and there's so much information and now there's so many types of flavors of truth and reality coming at us that people are

just freaked out. So they're just going from one thing to the next thing to the next thing, and they really get stuck in this fight or flight modes, Like the the amygdala is just turned on because we're like, okay, now I have to do this, and after this and blah blah blah, and I feel, you know, worried. And now even if I'm sitting on the couch, I'm thinking

about work or I'm thinking about this other thing. And so why meditation is so valuable is that whenever you calm the body and you actually you know, can be as simple as just you know, sitting and breathing. That's all you gotta do. Give yourself that space to sit and breathe. Just by taking regular relaxed breaths and just relaxing the muscles every time you exhale, it sends signals, you know, to the brain, telling your brain that the

body is safe. And that's the issue is that people feel that level of overwhelmedness because the body doesn't think they're safe because they're dealing with so many things. They're engaged with so many things, and they're worried about so many external factors, right, and so their body is like, oh, well, we must be under a threat because we're on like a high beams are on and we're like constantly doing

so stay in fight or flight mode. But by meditating and consistently using the compound growth of that of sending these signals just through relaxed breathing to the mind the hey,

the body is safe. You can actually relax now. The mind then changes all of the chemical nature of itself and goes into the parasympathetic nervous system mode of the you know, the rest and digest mode, where it's like, okay, we can actually calm down a little bit, we can stop you know, keeping us locked into fight or flight mode, and that relieves some of the pressure. It gives people an ability to calm down, to actually collect the thoughts, to blow off and release some of that stress and

have a bit more spaciousness. And that's really step one in removing the pressure from the overwhelmed that creates addiction and impulsive behavior. I read a tweet from somebody today that I loved that echoes something I've said many times, and it ties to what you just said a little bit, which is it was basically an underappreciated victory and mindfulness is realizing you simply didn't make things worse, yeah, which

I've often said. You know, if you boiled all the work that I do down, you might say like, well, you know, I just have basically taught you how to not make things worse. However, for some of us, our capacity to make things worse is so profound. Yeah, that that's a huge win question for you. I was reading again something of yours recently, and you mentioned you do an hour of exercise every day and you do about thirty minutes of meditation, So you're actually doing, you know,

basically double exercise to meditation. So speak to the role for you of exercise in creating some of the freedom we were just talking about. Oh yeah, it's so important. I mean, you know, my entire life, I was just hyper intellectual and really shutting down, compartmentalizing all emotionals everything like that, while you know, intensely studying Buddhism and just general Eastern wisdom traditions and also you know, Western philosophy

and thinking I was really getting somewhere. And I was to some degree until you know, it hit me that I I had a mentor or a kind of a slight teacher way back like twenty years ago that said make sure and open your heart before you open your mind.

And I was like, whatever, you know, I got this, you know, of course, as like a twenty year old, and I got to this place that I call existential paralysis, where like my level of the computation of the detail of the existential landscape was so intense that it was kind of like almost like a nervous like intellectual breakdown or something. I was so overwhelming, and I could describe it, but it would be exhausting for for listeners for me

to go into the detail. It's like a tiny snapshot would basically be like I got to this place of opening my eyes in the morning where I'm like, well, there's a bunch of blood vessels that just expanded because like rays of energy coming from like a nuclear furnace nine million miles away just like flew through space and a radiant like bounced off the walls and those cells,

you know, had a cellular change in my eyes. Now my blood and you know, and just the stuff and like walking outside and like, oh, all the microbes in the grass and the you know, in the soil, or there's all these microbes in every single blade of grass and all you know, the blood vessels of the trees, of the blood vessels of the earth, and so you know, times a thousand, just stuck in that zone, I sat down. I was actually, okay, this is too much and I lose like in that space for a couple of years,

and you just get increasingly more intense. And that was in my late twenties, and I thought, Okay, I gotta fix this. What's the foundation? Like, what am I missing here? Because I'm clearly missing something. I'm out of balance, I'm out of whack. What is it? And I thought, what's kind of like our birthright as a human being? And I thought, it's the mind, body and soul, right and soul whatever you call that, whatever you want. I caught the non self, you know, but it doesn't sound positive people,

but I mean it in a positive way. So I thought, okay, well, I've been working on the mind in the you know, the self intensely compulsively for all this time, and I've never one time thought about my body. And so I thought, oh, well,

no wonder, I'm freaked out. No wonder. I'm like, because I'm so ungrounded and I'm so trapped in my head that I need to get back in the ground, get back into like being an animal, and actually, you know, get in tune with the physical nature of being as opposed to just the the intellectual or the you know,

inner aspect. Of it, and so I just started like running and doing yoga, and I started reading about nutrition, eating well, and all of a sudden, I was like, wow, I feel fifty percent better after two weeks, you know. And so then it became a thing where I just started running five times a week for like ten years, and I recently have switched that up to something else.

But getting up in the morning and having all of that intellectual energy, all that animal energy, you know, because we I think, you know, some statistic I read one time like whenever sapiens were nomadic, we walked like eight miles a day or something like that. It's like it's built in. It's to need to move and to get that all that energy out. And so that's it's so important to me, is just like blasting out all the animal energy, really getting the body revved up, and it

wakes me up and really like get you alive. And I think that another aspect of it is breaking through barriers of resistance. It's a great practice because, like we talked about before, we're sort of wired to seek the path of least resistance, and so that of course feeds into life. Anytime that we're going through something like well, I have some emails to do, but it sounds too overwhelming.

Like I joke about a friend of mine, it's like something really important, you know, that you need to do, and it's like, well, that would have taken twenty minutes. I can't deal. You know, that's way too overwhelmed. You know, no way could I pause and do that. But the exercise, it taps you into the power of like your animal

creature power. And so whenever you get in that mindset of like, okay, say you're running and you start feeling tired, you could just stop, you know, sure, But also humans are so much more powerful, and our will and physical strength is so much more intense than we give it credit for that. If you just reframe that and change your mindset, you can keep running for you know, an

hour or something like that. And so breaking through those little barriers because it's basically just your mind throwing up a little thing that's like, hey, we're spending a lot of energy. You should stop in case the lion drives to attack you or whatever. And then it's like, no,

you can override that, you know. I just sounds so weird, But whenever I was younger, I used to imagine whenever I would get tired when I was running, that I was like chasing like a hog through the undergrowth in the jungle, and that the only way that the tribe would eat is if I could catch this thing. And I would really just go there like Jordan's you know, and back. God, I gotta and but it was just

a good, like kind of nervous system reframe. But yeah, anyway, so that's so valuable because then whenever you're in your daily life and it's time to have a tough conversation or to do that, you know, one extra task, it's not a thing like well I'll just give up. It's like, this is no big deal. I caught the hog girlier in the undergrowth. This is you know, talking to this person. This is nothing, you know. So that's super super viable.

I mean, it's it really is the foundation. And and I think that stacking these habits in this way to me anyway, it's all a routine that just facilitates the way I feel the best and the you know, the happiest, clearest, most energetic mind. And it's that, you know, the exercise, shaking off the energy, breaking through barriers, you know, waking up the nervous system and then going to the meditation and then calming it all down and focusing it and

just continue that cultivated sense of awareness. And after that, I mean, it's go time. You know, it feels so beautiful. Yeah, I'm with you. My exercise to meditation ratio might be might be close to two to one. And if I was forced, you know, if I was forced to be like you can only have one wellness intervention in your life, Eric, it would be exercise. I would jettison at all. I'd be like, well, I'm sorry, never meditating again. Med's okay,

they were helpful, but goodbye. It would be I'm going to exercise, which is tremendously boring thing to say, Right, what's the best way to feed Eric's goodwolf? Exercise? Okay, show over. We did not need five hundred episodes like We're done. Um turns into a health podcast. Yeah. Well, I interviewed a woman recently. I don't know if you've seen the book, but I think you would like it. It It was called Move by Caroline Williams, and she does a lot of research on why exercise is so beneficial

for us. I think you would actually really kind of nerd out on it a little bit. There was a lot of stuff that I had not seen before as to like more up and coming scientific theories about what's going on with movement and us. It was a good book and she was actually a good interview too. It'll be out by the time any listener, here's this Okay, listeners, you can find that episode in our in our back catalog.

I know that. You know. The Other thing about exercise that's interesting is I just had this conversation with Jenny the other day, and I think this speaks to some of what we've talked about a little bit before. And I've got a coaching client who's right in the midst of this, right, We've got him back on track, and he's just crushing it exercise wise, right, And the first three weeks it's like, yes, yes, right, Like he feels different,

he feels better, it's it's awesome. And somewhere around the three to five to six week mark, what happens is we adapt that feeling better starts to become sort of the new normal, and you go, well, jeez, am I really getting a lot out of this, which is I think why we often stop things. And I was having this conversation with Jenny the other day. I was joking, but I was like, you know, as much as I exercise,

I should feel like even better. And she was like, why don't you stop for a couple of weeks and talk to me about how you feel? And that's the exact truth, right, which is just the benefit of it sort of melds into the new normal. But the new normal is eight clicks higher than the old normal. I've often joked that if you could take the like eighteen or twenty or twenty two year old me and put him in my brain now, I think he would think

he was enlightened. And I don't mean that because I'm enlightened. I mean that because the gap between what that poor little guy understood and felt and what I do is so dramatic. And that's often I times think enlightenment is often people talk about being enlightened when they have an experience it is so dramatic. I think it would be a pretty dramatic experience for that eighteen year old to inhabit my current level of consciousness. Yeah, and I hope I can say the same thing at eight I can.

I hope by the eight I can be like a fifty year old me could drop into this brain, you know, like, I think that's a good sign that that we're growing totally yeah, yeah, I totally feel you on that. If I took eighteen year old me and put him in my brain now, he would probably think, like, what you're You're so soft now, you know, you're so weak. You're like being nice and like feeling things, creating space, like, yeah, it's amazing. Is it dead in here? What's going on?

There's nobody here? Yeah? Yeah, where's all the delusions of grandeur comes on? That was tasty. Yeah, man, that's inspiring. You know. It shows that like like if we're talking earlier, is like, well, who is the self? Who? Who is your identity? What does that really mean? And that's just another example of the way that it's got sort of

a main frame to it. You know, you're still Eric, but what's blown through over the course of several decades you're just a completely different person, you know, And the challenge of looking at something about ourselves that we might want to change feels like the stakes are really high,

and it feels immovable and it feels maybe impossible. But if you just remember anyone that's like, hey, you know, hold on a second, Well, actually I have progressed, I have like broken through things in my life, and this thing just seems huge because it's just the next one, you know, and so you can just move right through that one as well. And realizing that like real change

is possible. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's such a good reminder, is we've been through change before and recognizing that just because change feels difficult doesn't mean it's not doable. Yeah, And change is a funky one because it makes us deal with fear and discomfort at the same time. And so that's a pretty big proposition for people because they're like, well, this is the unknown, so I'm scared of like what comes after this change, and it makes me uncomfortable about

like who I am. So it's like your identity plus fear and so a lot of people don't want to do it. But how many times do you have to finally make that change or have some sort of like you know, external traumatic intervention or something that makes you make a change and then afterwards like, oh my god, I feel so much better, Like I wish I would

have done that five years ago or whatever. It's like how many times you have to go through that before you just didn't realize, like, you know what, I should be more aggressive in my changes than you, just like attack.

We talked about this, I think on on my podcast recently, is the power of aggression on the path and like how much it has a place, you know, of finding those moments about yourself where you feel that resistance or those areas where you should move into and actually using some of the animal energy, using some of that that

aggression or assertiveness to then break through those things. Because you know, it's like we're all sitting around waiting for permission to make our lives better, but no one's gonna ever give it to you. You know, you have to just recognize what your pain points are, what things you want to change. It's all possible. We discount our will and our ability to do things so much, you know, and just recognize that and then using some of that a servantess to go through it. You know, it's a

really powerful skill. Yeah. The word I love that I think sums up sort of what you were describing when you're running and you you push through or that you just sort of used with you know, aggression or a servness is fierceness. You know, fierceness just feels like it's clean. And whenever I think of it, I think of man juiciary who is a Buddhist icon of Bodhisattva and he holds a flaming sword. You know, the flaming sword is there to cut through delusion. You know, there's a fierceness

to him. He's a body safa dedicated to bringing all beings to enlightenment and great love. And he's also got a flaming sword. And now it's been relegated to TikTok videos. The flaming sword thing. I love that. I really resonate with that a lot. Again, it's one of those weird things where I don't know, I suppose it's not a disservice,

but it's just a level of confusion. I think that people that look at the world of meditation or mindfulness with the you know, the the undoing of the self, and they think the point is turning into a puddle and being this sort of like passive, soft observer sort

of whatever. That's very gentle and like you know, all this stuff, which I mean gentleness is great, but that is just almost sort of childlike in their delicateness, and that doesn't really have anything to do with the inward bath, you know, it's just a possible outcome of how someone deals and integrates those teachings, you know, And the issue with that is that those personalities are often characterized as, oh, well, this is the goal, this is what you should look like.

You know, this is who someone who has done all this work. Look how soft and gentle and they're always smiling and all that that they are, and how softly that they speak, and blah blah blah blah blah. They cut their carrots with a knife and fork and they don't even hear the plate noise either that, you know, that's how soft and sweet there. It's like, well, that's great for them, but that's not also what everyone is like,

you know, that's not what everyone's personality is like. And to me, I try to be vocal about the fact that I am a very like calm person, but I'm also very very like internally, I'm very assertive and very sort of like I listened to like hardcore wrap all the time, you know, like, and it's like that energy is like to me, is just embodies the same way

that you're talking about. Is it's like, for whatever reason, that's just the way that feels right to me, because it's the energy of like having an hunger for existence and a passion and almost like it feels like a download thing. That's where the exercise helps too. But it's like there's like a pressure of like energy or force of like vitality, and like it's so awesome and like everything this is just it's so rich and complicated and

beautiful that I just like to get in there. And that's a really valuable and valid energy and you know, and so I I dislike whenever people think like, oh I have to like melt into something I'm not or else I'm not making that same type of advance. But it's not true. It's not about who you are how you rock the thing. It's about how you show up in and how you live it. Yeah. Absolutely. Another Zen thing that I've always loved is a great determination. I

just have always liked that. I've just been drawn to Zen to a certain degree because there's not a lot of softness in it. Culturally, the word zen people think means peaceful and soft, but if you look at the Zen tradition, I mean they hit people with sticks all the time. I mean, they are. It is not a it is not a milk toast kind of spirituality. You know.

I want to go back to what we were talking a minute ago about making change and doing better things for ourselves, and you said self discipline, and isn't depriving yourself of things, it's giving yourself freedom from being controlled by them. Wow. Is that a great reframe? Thanks. The feeling of being entitled to stuff is a real issue because in the same way that we feel like you know, we want the material thing or whatever, the indulgence somehow has been sold to us as if it's something that

we are owed or that we deserve. And so whenever people are trying to evolve in some self mastery in some way, what typically throws them off the path is this egoic miswire of like, well, you know, I deserve to have whatever, like you know, the chocolate cake all the time. I deserve to have a couple of beers to the end of the day or whatever. Both of the beers and cake are both find you know, a big fan of both, But it's not about the fact

that you deserve it. So when you reframe It's like exercising self control is not keeping yourself from giving you what you deserve, but it's removing the power of the want of those things and the feeling of entitlement to those things, so that you're free from being controlled by external objects and ultimately the delusion that something outside of

you is what you need to complete you. And after you recognize that and make that reframe, then all the ornaments in the tasty snacks and the various things in our human world, they're all fine, but you control them instead of them controlling you. Yeah, that inner freedom. I mean, we used to say in a a all the time, people who got sober in jail, they would say, I felt more free in jail sober than I did out of jail with drugs because I was their prisoner, like

I was enslaved to drugs. Right, there was no inner freedom. I love that idea with whatever it is we're wrestling with that. You know, self discipline isn't depriving yourself of things, right, it's giving yourself freedom from being controlled. I think that's a beautiful idea. I know, you gotta run a minute. I want to wrap up with one thing. Do you get a minute. Sure, yeah, all right, it would be relatively quick, I think, although with you and I nothing

is quick. Um. I want to talk about MI neural beats. You create a bunch of these, you obviously believe they help and do something, or you wouldn't create them. So what is it that you think that they do? And then my my follow on question would be is there much scientific evidence to their benefit or is it more anecdotal from your perspective? Like this helps me, and so

I do it. I really, against my own will, became like a world renowned binoral beat creator because my prior life I was you know, in music production and also just composed music. But it was always an internal kind of practice and just a thing that really tied into my spiritual or inner life practice. Over time is like I can create these sounds and ultimately it's just creating like ambient music. But twenty years ago before it was cool, you know, and I was like, how can I create

these sounds? Like I noticed when I listened to this Like for example, like I mentioned earlier, hip hop gives you a lot of energy. Listening to death metal gives you a lot of energy. Bill listening to you know something relaxing or whatever. A sugilberto is gonna make you feel calm and like mellow or whatever, and then taking that another step lower, like ambient music, it's like, Wow, that's gonna make you feel really spacious and mellow. And so I would create sounds for my own meditation, and

I That's what I was doing forever. And then I just was always, you know, nerd ing out on various ways that sound could affect the mind and the body because it's just just fascinating to me. So, you know, twenty years ago, I got into nyl beats and was making them just for myself for meditation. I was like, oh, these seems like I'm dropping into a different gear with these. It's sort of like almost a self hypnosis type of

thing from the vibrational quality of them. And then fast forward to maybe like seven years ago or something, a friend of mine who has a sizable platform asked me

about them. Hey, can you make some for me? As yeah, sure, So I made him something just for fun and then he's like, these are so amazing, like we should sell these, and I was like all right, and so we sold him and then people went crazy for him, I mean and then I ended up making like more and more and more, and people just kept coming back, and then people all of the world started hitting up for private commissions and all this stuff, and it became a whole thing.

So I never really like wanted it, but it just happened, and I was like, people are enjoying it, so I keep doing it and it's kind of fun to make. So that's how I kind of got into making them. And do I think that they work. They seem to work to me, And it's like I said, in the same way that different tones and kind of vibes and music will change how you feel. I think that this is that, but with a specific intention on creating the

described effects. Looking into the science of it, there have been a handful of research studies done on them, particularly one that I was a part of actually in the university and in Australia, which they're putting people who have anxiety into fMRI machines and then playing the tracks that I made, and also a control track, so it's just the music without the tones to see if it has

any brain wave change. And basically they were just discovering that it was creating, you know, neurological changes and reducing anxiety and stuff like that. So you know, I would never make any claim of like this is scientifically proven that that you know, FDA proved, but try and be very clear and up front about that. Is like you can try it, like if it works to you, great,

and if it doesn't then that's cool too. But in the study they've done so far, it looks like it's not just the music, it's the actual binaural underlying quality of what's happening there. Yeah, interestingly interesting. I've listened to some I think yours primarily in the past, but I had somebody asked me about them recently and I was like, well,

that'sk Corey because he's against his will kind of a guy. Yeah. Well, you think about, like, think about how sound affects us in a in a kind of a deep way, even back to you know, a few thousand years ago, people going into battle are beating drums. Why because the constant pulsation of that drum is increasing their energy and their fury. A gong and a temple in a meditation hall is an is a chronic type of beats. So it's basically

what happens when someone hits a gong, he goes. So it's instead of bin earl, which is two beats, it's one wave, one beat moving forward, and they have used that forever to calm and center people. And so basically the binarial aspect is the same idea, but just taking it to the notion of like, well, what are our brain wave frequencies? You know, what are the ones that

help us relax and stay focused? And can we target those by creating you know, the same type of effect with a bit of audio technology and it seems to work to me. Awesome, Well, thank you so much Corey for coming on. It's always such a pleasure to talk with you. Yeah. Likewise, man, beautiful. If what you just heard was helpful to you, please consider making a monthly donation to support the One You Feed podcast. When you join our membership community with this monthly pledge, you get

lots of exclusive members only benefits. It's our way of saying thank you for your support. Now. We are so grateful for the members of our community. We wouldn't be able to do what we do without their support, and we don't take a single dollar for granted. To learn more, make a donation at any level and become a member of the one You Feed community. Go to when you Feed dot net slash Join The One You Feed podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting the show.