Conor O'Brien- Villagers

and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf m Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this episode is Connor O'Brien, the singer

and songwriter for the band Villagers. The band came to prominence in two thousand ten with the release of their debut album, Becoming a Jackal, released two critical acclaim the album was shortlisted for the two thousand ten Mercury Prize and the Choice Music Prize. The band studio album away Land was released in two thousand thirteen. It won the Choice Music Prize that year and was also shortlisted for

the two thousand thirteen Mercury Prize. Their two thousand and fifteen record, Darling Arithmetic, became one of Eric's favorite records of last year. It also won an Iver's Award for the Best Album of the Year. Here's the interview. Hi Connor, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm

really excited to get you on your record. Last year, Darling Arithmetic was one of my two favorite records of the year, and the new one that you've least, which is a recording of live recordings that you made in the studio, is also really wonderful. So it's a real pleasure for me to have you. Well, thank you, I'm blushing. Well, we'll start the show like we usually do. There's a parable in which there's a grandfather who's talking with his grandson.

He says, in life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and then the other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second, and he looks up at his grandfather and he says, well, grandfather, which one wins? And the grandfather says, the one you feed.

So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in

the work that you do. It's a weird one for me in terms of creativity, because I think when you're when you're making music or are you can be exploring things which might be shoot as negative in your everyday life, but if you explore them in the most creative and the most open way possible in art, then you might be finding that you might be discovering these these negative aspects within your music, which isn't necessarily a bad thing,

you know. So, for instance, I have some old songs which when I listened to them, to me, they sound slightly like I was being a bit dishonest or trying to portray an image of myself at the time. But for me, that doesn't mean that it's It doesn't negage the art. It doesn't mean that it's a bad thing. It just means that that's where my head was at

at the time kind of thing. So I see kind of music and arts as an exploration of all aspects of your life and whether whether you want to classify them as positive or negative, or evil or good or any sort of other dualistic kind of qualities. Really. Yeah, I mean, we definitely talked about the fact that art, at least for me, is one of the big ways to you know, to use the analogy to feed my good wolf, that that consuming and engaging in and creating art is one of the best things that I can

do for myself. Yeah. So let's talk about a couple of songs off the Darling Arithmetic record. The first one you've described it as um at one point you said it was one of your favorite songs, and you said you wanted to write a meditation song. And that is the soul serene look a little ride on the carousel. I wonder that I am not going to have the town keep spinning dead souls until I've got no reason. I've got no reason to figure out what didn't mean

enough chameleon dream my mind? Yeah, stepping so sorry the song, stepping to the soul, So step into the song, So step me all my life. What did you mean my meditation song? I think that was a slightly reactionary thing in terms of my songwriting. I think I was looking back at music that I had made in the previous two years and realized that a lot of it was trying to fill as much as possible into four minutes

of folk rock whatever. Um So, I guess this this was me just kind of like saying, when am I trying to express the experience of space and solitude and just kind of that that feeling of emptying your mind, having moments with yourself in which you can kind of feel your shape shifting to some degree, because I've had many experiences like that, usually when I'm alone. So it was just that it was an effort really to kind of express that. And I think I'm kind I'm quite right.

I think I got somewhere with it. I think you did too. It's absolutely I just love it. It's one of my favorite songs off that record or any record. There's a there's a sense of peace to it that is, um difficult to get across in music without being schmaltzy, and I think you managed to do that. Oh cool, Thank you do? You is meditation something that you are, that you practice or that you do, or is that just sort of mora a term that you use for

the song. At that point, I got involve than this thing called the Alexander technique when I when I was losing my voice quite a lot on tour. And basically the Alexander technique is you give yourself at least fifteen minutes every day and you lie down, usually put like a book or something at your head so that your neck is really straight, and you just stare at the ceiling and you don't really try to do anything. You just kind of become aware of the weight of your body.

And it was originally a technique used used for actors when they started losing their voice after you know, twenty shows in a row or whatever, but for me it became something quite addictive. Actually, it was something that I really really looked forward to. I couldn't live without every day.

So it became more of a psychological calming thing. And I haven't really lost my voice since I started doing it, which is kind of interesting, and so I think it's more like a sort of a psycho physical thing really, So for me, that's kind of a meditation. Yeah, I guess an older song or years going back, a couple of records and nothing arrived, and you you talk about you waited for something, you know, and something died. You waited for nothing and nothing arrived. I've heard you say that.

That became a pretty straightforward folk rock song about smiling into the void. I waited for something and something died, So I waited for nothing. Nothing arrived. It's our dearest ally, it's our closest friend, it's our darkest black out. It's a fine old and my dear sweet nothing. Let's start new from here on in a just me and you. Can you tell me a little bit more about that song?

That's not pretentious at all, is it? Um? Um? Yeah, we've actually been playing that on this tour in a very different way, so it's become something new for me again. But I guess it's kind of about embracing that kind

of feeling of futility rather than trying to fight. I feel like a lot of music and a lot of stuff, especially stuff that gets on the radio, um and stuff that becomes very popular for god knows what reason, is music that kind of embraces the idea of of covering up the cracks, and and and you know, trying to portray a sort of perfection or sort of an idea

of perfection at least. And and the music that usually makes me feel happy or you know, just connected in some way is music which a lot of people describe as depressing. I think, you know, music which actually kind of talks about the things that you might feel when you're at your lowest or or the things that you're not usually meant to be able to say in your office job, or on the train or on the bus

or whatever. You know. And I guess this's that Nothing Arrived was just kind of my way of kind of expressing those dark moments that you can get, but realizing that they kind of bring us all together because you know, they were all susceptible to it. And that's kind of a beautiful thing. It's a great song, and I love

the way you do it. Now. A lot of your songs tend to have, you know, the two we've talked about so far, tend to get into I don't have a great word for it, but metaphysical or existential or bigger picture things. They're they're talking about something that's happening here in the world. But they're also talking about being part of something bigger, the song So Naive being a great example of that, where you say you're part of

something bigger. I believe that I'm a part of something Beggar, so naive, but I guess I got it vegga through these little lines. I see the world every woman and man, every boy and girl, every little part and aid sonth and Beggar song beggar. When the one thing you live for is the one thank you? You say? How did I get here? And I haven't gonna get back? Do you think a lot about that sort of stuff? Are you spiritually inclined? Is it just kind of happen naturally?

And well, I do, yeah. I mean I don't know if it's much more than anybody else, but I definitely spend a lot of my time kind of observing things and usually take notes in my phone or whatever, my notebook, whatever I have with me. I mean, So Naive is kind of an interesting one because it's sort of proposes that idea and that feeling of being part of a bigger picture, but it also kind of mocks it a little bit. Um It sort of says, you know, I'm so naive? But I guess I've got it figured out.

It's kind of that realization of knowing that you you know, I mean, it's a it's an oversaid thing, but it's like a realization of knowing that you actually know nothing at all. The line in there about you know the one thing that you need being something you lack? Was that? Was that in reference to anything in particular or would you like to leave that up to our imagination for

the listener? Who I guess, you know, it's always going to be different, But I mean, I suppose for me that was kind of linking to feelings of being younger and not being able to kind of express myself for my sexuality, or you know, feeling like you couldn't come out yet when you're kind of an a young teenager, and that kind of feeling of growing up gay and a kind of homophobic society, which is what happened to me.

And and that kind of for me opened up a lot of creative doors because it just turned me into a voyeur and and I kind of started seeing the world around me as a whole load of signs and signifiers and just this big theater, you know, this this kind of strange paradigm, which I wasn't part of you as far as your sexuality were more overt on the Darling Arithmetic record than any in the past. Um about your sexuality? Was that a conscious decision? And did you

did you have fear around that? It wasn't necessarily conscious. It was more kind of like it's the only thing that was feeding my fire. You know, I couldn't write anything else, so I had to write it. I've always let the music kind of dictate where I wanted to go.

M and the previous albums were like dealing with those feelings of anger and kind of an indignant energy, which which I felt, but it wasn't specifically pointing towards it, which I thought was an interesting project, but also was coming out of a certain amount of necessity because I was wasn't comfortable talking about it to strangers with microphones and cameras and stuff, and you know, because I'm quite a naturally introverted person anyway, So it's something that just

I had to kind of go through in my art and my music, and so yeah, I mean, I guess it's just I don't really do anything with an overthinking mind. I kind of just let the music take me where it's kind of go, and I feel like I'm kind of on a on a journey really with with that, another song which kind of gets to the topic of being brave enough to write about who you really are is the song Courage, and there's a couple lines in

there i'd like to ask you about. Took a little time to get where I wanted, took a little time to get free, took a little time to be on it, took a little time to be mean. I took a little lover, but then we parted. It took a little time to get on by From time to time I get haldy hardy thinking about you. Okay, Courage, it's a fiend like no let me tell you yet, Courage and harmy some of them, y'all. Eagle Courage, The sweet relief of know nothing cone small Free the first one I'd

really like to ask. I love this line, and I'm just curious what it what it means to you, The sweet relief of knowing nothing comes for free. I think it's one of those lines that kind of turns something, this thing that could becomes strewed as a negative or as a as something that you like that you had to fight for is actually something that carved out the

most interesting parts of your psyche and your personality. I really like it because I think that a lot of us are always looking for some kind of shortcut to a lot of things. And I love what I You know, what I took from that and in my own life was the relief of kind of recognizing, like, that's not the way it is, like that nothing comes for free, and really accepting that and being okay with the work that I was going to have to do in my

life to be the person I wanted to be. What lesson would you say has taken you the longest to learn in your life? Wow? Wow, this is a really interesting interview. I've never I've actually started seeing a therapist recently, and this is not dissimilar. Um, what lessons have I learned? Don't be afraid of going to see a therapist. Maybe that's kind of interesting. That's not seeing a therapist isn't embedded in Irish culture as much as it is in

American culture. It's it's something that you don't really talk about as much over here, And but I'm finding it absolutely beautiful. I'm discovering so many aspects of myself which are really going to feed hopefully my next songs. And I guess just being able to have faith in your idiosyncrasies. Yeah, I have faith in in in the things that make you different and make you shine that little bit more.

I think that's something I've learned to emphasize as well in my life as I've gotten a little bit older. I heard you appear on a show where they were asking sort of your top tips for I think it was probably around creation, and that was one of the big ones you said was find that thing about you it's unique and kind of blow it up, like it's not blow it up like destroy it, blow it up as in magnify it. Yeah, totally. I mean a good example with my friend Dave is one of my best mates.

We were in a band together for years, and when when David Bowie died, he up a post on Facebook and it just said, thank you boy for helping me to learn how to celebrate the strange. I just thought that was such a beautiful sentence, and you know, it reminded me of of of of when we were twelve thirteen and singing Hunky Dory from start to finish and you know, just the strength that kind of stuff gives you is it's beautiful. You like to read a lot?

What are you what are you reading right now? Or what have you read really recently that you thought was very profound. I'm reading a book called Gay Lives from Wild to Almaldivar. It's by Calm Talbing, the Irish author, and it's basically exploring all these different writers and artists and filmmakers who were gay and different and different times of history and in different countries. And it's fascinating, really really interesting, because I'm on the chapter about it irishman

called Roger Casement. He um ended up working for the British consulate and he basically got given loads of awards for his work in Peru because he was discovering that the local population we're being really badly treated. And he got sort of further and further up in the British Council and then and then became more of an Irish Republican and ended up trying to help the Easter Rising in Ireland in nineteen sixteen by bringing German guns into Ireland.

And then he was caught by the British and hanged basically but They also found these diaries on called the Black Diaries, in which he's basically it's basically talking about all these homosexual encounters that he had, but a lot of people think they might have been forged by the British government. It's a completely bizarre, interesting, very very very kind of I think Daniel de Lewis should try and

play him someday. They'll be pretty good. Is the mood in Ireland still very positive after the reference them where gay marriage was you know, sort of legalized by the population themselves by voting directly on it. It is. Yeah. Socially,

it's amazing, you know. I mean that was probably one of the most important times in my life because they're just walking around the city and seeing people wearing badges saying yes you know, and knowing that these people have absolutely no problem with who you are, and how how at odds that is with you know, ten years previously, when you're still a teenager or whatever and really not feeling that at all. It was It's completely amazing. Um, it's just there was. It was such a brilliant thing

for everybody. I think it's it's it's gonna have ramifications which you're just going to continue saying for the next ten twenty years. It's Yeah, it's amazing. I've heard you in a couple of interviews and also in that song Courage talk about connecting with something other than our ego. What does ego mean to you? I mean, that's one of those terms. It gets used so many different ways.

I'm curious for you what it sort of represents. It's not necessarily the kind of Freudian ego thing like the aid, or it's not necessarily being as specific as that. For me, it was more kind of using ego and a slightly waited biased in terms of it being something that you can get obsessed with quite easily, you know, and perhaps more in a sort of celebrity culture way or in a in a you know, a slightly less kind of

pure way than perhaps ego could be construed. Yes, So for me, it's more like kind of opening up your horizons and being kind of humble with how you see yourself. Yeah, for me, he's been less focused on myself in general, being able to have a point of view that actually includes other humans or the types of humans are right right. Well, thanks so much, Connor for taking the time to come on like I said, your records have been great sources of comfort to me over the last few years, and

I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks very much, cheers, thanks for having me, Eric, Okay, all right, take care bye bye, okay bye. You can learn more about Connor O'Brien and this podcast at one you feed dot net slash Connor